NOT IMPRESSED with Lionel's new catalogue

[Anonymous]

Very well written Brian. All excellent points. Sadly I think Lionel is beginning to price themselves out of the market. I am amazed that they think that high prices are not an issue for many modlers. It's easy for us to fix the cost problem though - just don't pay it. Model trains can't make money collecting dust on warehouse shelves. Eventually someone is going to have to be held accountable for the decisions that are being made in the corprate offices. Of course, out of the bad can come some good, maybe the market will open up for some of the smaller manufactuers like Williams an K Line. Dollars are still dollars, and with the economy the way it is, how far your dollars go is increasingly important.
As for the products, I was happy to see the PC G with the modification, but the price is way too high. The overland flyer set was right up my alley but again the price.... BTW I wonder if Lionel paid the copyright fee to UP for this one? The first catalog teased of many more Fastrack items that were going to be offered in book 2. I saw only one - a lighted bumper block. The remote control switches were shown in more detail, but how excited can one get about a switch?
What is the positive to come out of both Lionel' s catalogs this year? I 'll only have to budget a little bit of money for a few of their new products this year. 'Cause there isn't very much I am interested in at all.

[brianel027]

I've only looked at the catalog on line... I always like having the hard copy to make a real complete assessment. But some immediate observations... yes, there are many repeat items from the first edition catalog. In fairness MTH and K-Line both do the same thing, so Lionel is not alone.

I think the opening statement is an improvement over the past couple. But I also think overall Lionel is still catering to the established, well-to-do adult market, despite a few offerings otherwise, like the Thomas Set and the Polar Express set. Prices are still ridiculously high - not that there was any indication that they would be otherwise. $60 for an operating car like the aquarium car is one thing; $60 for flat car with a tractor on it is totally obscene.

Previous statements from Lionel have indicated concern with the collector market, the after-sale market and stabliization of these prices. Lionel should just worry about making and marketing quality affordable trains. I don't doubt for a moment that the high prices on things like the postwar reissue series are intentional to prevent contributing to a substantial drop in collector values on the orignal pieces. I also don't doubt that Lionel is also using "selective pricing" with the intent of using product from long existing, paid for dies to help pay for the many new items that are being made from new tooling and dies that hasn't yet seen a return.

The "Greendale" Neil Young set is an obvious "T-bone" to the collectors. The rest of us get "mashed potatoes." I suspect your typical run-of-the-mill Neil Young fan doesn't have $600 to drop on a Lionel train set. Far more would have been accomplished by making a more affordable set in larger numbers that might appeal to new customers as well as train collectors, and even Neil Young fans. What's next... Neil Young concerts in Vegas at $300 per seat??

I wonder if anyone at Lionel has actually listened to the "Greendale" album... Greendale's this small town that seems to have more problems than prosperity. I wonder if there's a Lionel value-added dealer there in Greendale? There is a sign that says "Leaving Greendale." I get the impression no one in Greendale has the $600 bucks to blow on a train set. I mean, Earl Green is gonna have to sell a painting first before he considers buying something like that. And though Sun Green is more concerned with saving the planet, I'm sure she's not too happy about American jobs going overseas... she's not gonna sell much art either if no one can afford to buy it. Betcha Sun Green would like the idea of getting the train set by purchasing the CD instead of the other way around. But Sun Green is young... one day she'll see it ain't about the environment - it's about profits and the bottom line. Oh well, business as usual... "Hey Mr. Clean, you're dirty now too!"

Same goes for the cartoon Simpson's cars which are way over priced. There's no shortage of Simpson's related items at Wal-Mart and at much more reasonable prices (D'oh!!) ... these are the Simpson's items that people will buy. I doubt even Homer Simpson would spend $60 on one of those cars unless he'd just left Moe's. Lionel missed the train by not making a SpongeBob Square Pants train set, which has way more appeal to kids and parents than do the Simpson's. But MTH is doing the SpongeBob stuff. But I bet Lionel would sell more with their name on the box (of course, depending on MSRP and advertising). Average folks know the Lionel name... they don't know the MTH name.

I think Lionel should concern themselves a whole lot less with the collector market and after-sale values and much more with promotion of their product to new buyers and making quality fairly priced trains. Although Lionel has the obvious name recognition advantage, many of their prices are higher than others for similar types of product... example: K-Line's Train-19 at $20 list with die-cast trucks; Lionel traditional starter set cars at $25 with plastic trucks.

I do like the brand new 14 inch U36B in CSX... very nice looking unit and finally, a modern road name on the low end (other than the Amtrak RS-3). I wish Lionel would finally start making these locomotives with quality in mind and put TWO motors in them. As they are with one motor and not much weight to them, they are poor pullers. I've had 2 value added Lionel dealers tell me these engines are not worth the money, but they stock them because some folks will only buy the Lionel name. One told me they were junk and to not expect anything other than a poor puller and that I could buy a better K-Line or Williams engine for less. I'm sure Lionel is aware of the "Lionel only" buyers and uses this as a poor excuse for sub-par comparison quality.

And with Lionel's low production costs being in China, it doesn't seem like too much to ask that we guys that can't spend hundreds of dollars on an engine could PLEASE have something that runs and pulls more than a few cars. Again, it shows Lionel is not very concerned with the type of buyer that once made them an American icon and a household name.

And though it wasn't mentioned in the catalog introduction this time around, the US economy isn't in the rosey shape some media sources and the current administration would have you believe. Not when unemployed folks (60% was the figure I heard reported) who are finally finding work, are accepting jobs that pay up to 50% less than what they previously made at their last job. Could this have anything to do with the overseas competition from manufacturing and outsourcing??? When folks can barely pay their essential bills, train purchases get crossed off the shopping list.

How ironic that Lionel trains, now made in China, are priced as if they were made in here in the USA at their imaginary midtown Manhattan facility. Or maybe even their former Greendale production plant.

I guess, once again, most folks buying Lionel product will be purchasing it from the large ad in the train magazine with the headline "Blowout Prices."

[ben10ben]

Overall, I wasn't too impressed either.

The GG-1 does look impressive, though. This is the first O gauge GG-1 modeled with the later high mounted air intakes that were installed after a massive GG-1 failure in the '50s. Also, I think that it's the first in any scale to have a smoke unit :) :).
Also, the pantographs can be activated from the CAB-1, as opposed to the simple opening ones of MTH(which all Lionel GG-1s have had, as well).

[Anonymous]

Is it just me; or could this catalogue been 50 pages shorter by just showing the NEW stuff and not the old stuff too.??

I guess some dealers still have GS-2s and GS-64s Or was this re-printed because the flyer was nice Or to sell the passenger cars??

OK already with the Acela; it says it is "sold out" so why make some of you out there more miserable because they missed out or don’t have an extra $2K handy.

And WOW a GG1 like MTH's with moving pantographs... well I guess they did have it first with the ACELA

Gosh don’t we have enough Christmas trains and cars already. How big is your tree?

And talk about self promotion... what is it with the Neil Young Train... It is nice there is an Elvis set to offset it . Makes me think that some new Lionel Recording artists are in the making for 2005 like the Backshop Boys or maybe the Chuff-in-Syncs, or a new teen-girl singer Berkity Shires. I understand at 18, she's still a virginian.

Alan