Okay, so I have a slight (LARGE) problem; my New York Central System 4-4-2 steam locomotive (from the #31940 start set) was flooded with smoke fluid. I read somewhere that you should turn the loco upside down for an hour on a cloth to let it drain. Well after about 55 minutes (close enough), I picked up the loco, wiped it down, and put it on the track. So I power it up, and after a second or two, it pours out plumes of smoke! Well, it started sparking, and about five seconds into the run, a huge flame (for inside) a foot or so just blew up!!! (my guess is that the extra fluid dripped on the tracks and short-circuited between the middle and outside rail [O scale]). I immediately turned off the power, and took the engine off the track. It is currently sitting on the plywood table, still smoking (this happened less than five minutes ago). What should I do? Should I turn it upside-down again? Should I just try it on the track again? I am actually heading up to my hobby shop to pick up another engine, should I take it to them, and see what they can do? Any one with experience in flaming engines (this has never happened to me before) please comment and share your story.
Thanks!
-Scott
Boston's freeway system is insane. It was clearly designed by a person who had spent his childhood crashing toy trains.
-Bill Bryson
Wow, you must have really flooded that engine with smoke fluid. If it were mine I would pull the shell off and wipe down the innards and let it sit for a day to dry off. Longer if necessary. Then I would carefully search for any pinched or shorted wires. Finding none I would run the thing without the shell first then carefully install the shell. Hope it works
DITTO, to what WABASBUD said. I hope your engine is ok. Do as WABASH said with drying and checking the wires. Good luck.
laz57
It could have been the smoke heating element that caught fire. Usually to much fluid will cool them instead of the intended want for more smoke. But it could have burned out or shorted. As stated above open it, dry it, assess the damage or take it to a repair station.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
Man, what kind of smoke fluid do you use... Ronsonol?
Seriously, I didn't think that smoke fluid could flame. If there was actual fire, I feel it likely was not just the smoke fluid, but a component or something on the track. Perhaps the fluid found its way to the reverse board and caused a short. Have a look inside and see what's up. Be sure and keep us informed as to your findings.
Pete
"You can’t study the darkness by flooding it with light." - Edward Abbey -
I suspect when you take off the locmotive's shell, it ain't going to be pretty inside. The bottom of that flame is where you are going to see the heat damage.
Good luck.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
I had a problem with the smoke unit in a 1993 Santa Fe 2-6-4. There was a gap between the top of the smoke tube and the shell. When the engine would start up, the smoke fluid would bubble from the push of air and would overflow the top of the tube. It would then run back along the wires to the circuit board which caused eratic operation. The engine continued to be a bad performer until the smoke fluid residue was "burned-off" the boards through normal running. I never saw flames though! Yikes!
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
"What should you do? " Right now all you have is a candidate for a top 10 thread for 2011. I say you should pyramid on your accomplishments:
1. With a fire extinguisher, video camera, & script writer on hand why not try to reproduce your achievement.
2. Post the video on UTube and then link a thread on as many model RR forums as you can.
3. Tip off the mass media of your video and see if it goes viral.
4. Finally, see if you can reproduce that scene in a few more hobbies. Who knows? With a good Hollywood agent you may even be able to spin off the ultimate 21st Century achievement: your own reality show! Fame & fortune will surely follow you on the Discovery Channel.
[YouTube link removed because of embedded title]
UPDATE:
I have kept the engine upside-down overnnight, and no smoke has been produced. Good! Well, maybe not. I have put smoke fluid back in the loco, and still no smoke. From the underside, the loco looks soaked in fluid. Well, I went to my dealer today (to pick up my Metra F40PH, I LOVE IT) but didn't take the steamer. I'm trying to work it out on my own. It works fine it all respects. I'm not too worried about it. If it happens again, then I'll take it to my shop.
Thanks for your support!
Sounds like the smoke unit burned up. I had this happen to a 2-4-2 I own. Lots of smoke. Probably a few seconds from flames. When I say lots of smoke I mean a lot like a a propane torch but instead of flames just smoke. When I disassembled it the smoke was the culprit. Apparently the heating element shorted and ignited the whicking and residual fluid that was left in the unit.
Jason
B&O = Best & Only
Did any of the trains on the Adams Family catch fire? Sounds like your layout needs a full time fire department and you need a 1:1 fire extinguisher in the room. The modern Lionel engines are not too hard to take apart and clean. You could film a good scene for youtube: you with engine walk out into the kitchen,,,, your wife is busy looking down cooking food.
Your wife says: did you have fun running the trains?
You reply: yes I had a smoking good time.
Your wife looks up and sees your hair blown back and singed, your face and clothes covered with soot and a big smile on your face. She replies what happened to you?
You reply: I tried juniors smoke fluid he made in science class. I think it might be a little too potent.The flame from the stack was five feet high!
Your wife: we've got to find you another hobby,,, your mom told me you were dangerous with toy trains.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
trainlover35 ...So I power it up, and after a second or two, it pours out plumes of smoke! Well, it started sparking, and about five seconds into the run, a huge flame (for inside) a foot or so just blew up!!! -Scott
...So I power it up, and after a second or two, it pours out plumes of smoke! Well, it started sparking, and about five seconds into the run, a huge flame (for inside) a foot or so just blew up!!!
A foot high flame? Regular smoke fluid doesn't burn. In fact, too much fluid diminishes the smoke output. It cannot cause what you describe. Even with your smoke unit shorting out, I don't understand what could possibly cause a foot high flame shooting out of the stack.
I doubt it was a foot high but Heating Elements DO cause fires.
I believe that smoke fluid is actually mineral oil. From the Wikipedia article on mineral oil: "It can be used in some model trains as a substitute for the 'smoke fluid' or 'smoke oil' that simulates steam coming from a steam engine." Here is the MSDS for mineral oil: http://msds.farnam.com/m000712.htm It is flammable, but it doesn't burn in normal operation.
Bob Nelson
It probably looked a foot high at the moment.
DennisB-1 trainlover35: ...So I power it up, and after a second or two, it pours out plumes of smoke! Well, it started sparking, and about five seconds into the run, a huge flame (for inside) a foot or so just blew up!!! -Scott A foot high flame? Regular smoke fluid doesn't burn. In fact, too much fluid diminishes the smoke output. It cannot cause what you describe. Even with your smoke unit shorting out, I don't understand what could possibly cause a foot high flame shooting out of the stack.
trainlover35: ...So I power it up, and after a second or two, it pours out plumes of smoke! Well, it started sparking, and about five seconds into the run, a huge flame (for inside) a foot or so just blew up!!! -Scott
Something within the engine could have been burning--perhaps the smoke unit itself?
I say this is a matter for America's favorite mythologists Adam & Jaime of Mythbusters to resolve. It should make for a fun episode, them smoking & blowing up PW & circuit board locomotives.
Wouild make for some great publicity for the hobby and forum too.
Maybe this is why all the newer engine shells are metal?
Haven't been on CTT in a while. Great story! Only problem with that, is I would be the Junior! Haha. I'm only 13, but haven't tried making my own smoke fluid. Maybe someday..... Anyway, I would just like to say that when I did call my parents down to see the flare up (when it initially happened) that a rag that happened to be laying too close the the track did get a little singed. Haha. Well, in the next hour I'm gonna head down to the basement, find the instruction manual for the steamer, and with video camera overhead, I'm gonna disassemble it. Should make for some great tutorials! I don't have a Youtube account for my trains yet, but hopefully that will change. I'll post the link to the video when I can. Whatever. Time for lunch....
You said: "So I power it up, and after a second or two, it pours out plumes of smoke! Well, it started sparking, and about five seconds into the run, a huge flame (for inside) a foot or so just blew up!!! (my guess is that the extra fluid dripped on the tracks and short-circuited between the middle and outside rail [O scale]"
What you describe above about the smoke fluid is not possible.
I tried to ignite my smoke fluid with a match (outside in a glass container) Guess what? It did not catch on fire. There were no sparks. I cannot see how regular smoke fluid could produce a foot high flame that "blew up" as you describe. Nor can I understand how a rag by your track would get singed.
Hi all. Well, I finally got a Youtube account, and a video follow-up for this situation will be the first video uploaded. It has a surprise in it! I won't have a chance until Tuesday to upload it, so sit tight. Anyway, my username is "Trainz35". The link below is to my channel. Check it out and please subscribe!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Trainz35?feature=mhum
Hello all, I recently posted this to a much older thread, but this just happened to us a few days ago! We took out a new Pennsy Flyer bought a couple of years ago and stored until yesterday. I checked the engine to make sure it was lubricated and nothing was binding. We put it on the layout in front of a postwar milk car and five baby madison cars (two with six wheel trucks and all lighted). The engine walked away with the train easily and after about a few minutes it hadn't started smoking. I added more smoke fluid (dumb move). Then noticed the switch under the cab to turn on the smoke unit (read manual before using). Put it back on the track and it started to smoke almost at once. In a few minutes it was puffing away like mad and my wife remarked that it was smoking better then our best smoker. A postwar 2018 (pill unit using mega smoke). Just after that it started to pour smoke from the steam chest area. It still was billowing smoke a minute after I had turned off the track power. We opened all the windows in the living room, where the layout is and turned on the ceiling fans (Hawaii, everyone has lots of them). Then we retreated to the air-conditioned part of the house. A couple of hours later I opened up the engine. The bottom of the smoke unit was badly melted and the smoke stack was tilted toward the rear. The whole smoke unit was covered in burnt smoke fluid (carmel colored) and it smelt awful. This was an unused engine and only over filled once. When I first stopped the engine after it stopped billowing smoke I felt the front of the boiler and it was warm. None of our other smokers have ever warmed up. This is the only engine we have that uses that style of smoke unit 8041-050. I have a 8141-050, which is basically the same unit, that i bought to add smoke to a different engine. The 8141-050 is the same unit, just used in a plastic boiler shell. After this I'm rethinking the modification. The way the smoke unit was melted it does appear that the heating element shorted out and the wicking caught fire. Perhaps the smoke fluid in an overfilled smoke unit aerates and this makes it slightly flammable.ThanksPatrick
Ua Mau Ke Ea O Ka Aina I Ka Pono
Alright everybody. calm down. I now know, and have known for quite sometime, what the problem was, and it is under control. Rest assured, that it will not happen again. However, for a full diagnosis, please watch my upcoming video on my Youtube channel. Should be up in a few days. The link to my channel is below. I would highly recommend this video for anyone with similar experiences, or who are just curious.
Thanks again!
P.S. I will post a link to the video when I upload it.
Well, my video follow up is now up. Click on the link to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj1f_j8gx2w
The "fact" that smoke fluid won't burn is false, just try it. It's true that it's difficult to get started, but it'll sure burn, especially if it's spread out over a wide area and starts to evaporate!
I did try it by holding a match to it. It did not burst into flame. That's what I'm talking about. The scenario as described at the beginning of this post was not caused by the ignition of smoke fluid.
I believe you, and the 30 other people saying that. I'm not sure where John got his idea, but if you watch the video that I posted the link for, it explains everything.
Well, I got my engine back perhaps 2 months ago, and all is well. Works better than new, and I should have time in my hectic schedule for a video sometime soon. Anyway, check out my lastest railfanning videos!
Well, I hope you guys are secure in thinking smoke fluid won't burn, but it certainly will. Now, I didn't say you can wave a match at it and get it going, but when it reaches it's flash point, it'll burn just dandy!
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