Not Impressed By OGR Run 202

[Anonymous]

The current edition of OGR isn't very good. There are very few features and things of interest. The magazine is nothing more than a lot of promotion of products and ads. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come.

[Anonymous]

Why not post this over there.........?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I agree. Kind of crappy. I don't feel so bad about not buying the magazine regularly.

Of equal importance, I was a little dissapointed with my July 2004 copy of CTT. The content was good as always but the book literally fell apart after a few days. At least 10 pages tore out from the center. Now the book sits on my desk as a big wad of tape and paper.

While I'm at it, Years ago, I was a regular subscriber to CTT. When the subscription ran out, I simply purchased them at the local hoby shop. Gave me a good excuse to go. Recently I decided to resubscribe. To my surprise, the book no longer comes in a plastic bag. As a result my magazines are a little beat up when they finally reach my mailbox.

Anyone at CTT have any insight? Not to meaning to bash CTT in any way, just wanted to voice some things in the QAQC department.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Notch 8

Yes, I agree. Kind of crappy. I don't feel so bad about not buying the magazine regularly.

Of equal importance, I was a little dissapointed with my July 2004 copy of CTT. The content was good as always but the book literally fell apart after a few days. At least 10 pages tore out from the center. Now the book sits on my desk as a big wad of tape and paper.

While I'm at it, Years ago, I was a regular subscriber to CTT. When the subscription ran out, I simply purchased them at the local hoby shop. Gave me a good excuse to go. Recently I decided to resubscribe. To my surprise, the book no longer comes in a plastic bag. As a result my magazines are a little beat up when they finally reach my mailbox.

Anyone at CTT have any insight? Not to meaning to bash CTT in any way, just wanted to voice some things in the QAQC department.

I'm not one to sweat the content of a magazine on an issue by issue basis. When you subscribe, you take the bad with the good. There are always things of interest, and occasional gems to be found in both publications.

As for the condition of your copy when it reaches your mailbox, the magazine publishers changed the way they distributed their products a number of years ago. Not just Kalmbach, but many of the large publishers. I think the way it works is that a large quantity of copied are shipped to the local post office, along with the labels for the subscribers. This was done to reduce the handeling of the individual magazines, and eliminate the need for wrapping.

If your copy is mangled, this was done most likely at your local post office. I think all you have to do is call Kalmbach customer service, and they will send you a replacement. I've been a subscriber for years, and have never had to resort to using this service. Once in a while, my copy will be in less than mint condition, but I'm not that fussy with my trains, so the magazine is no big deal. [swg]

[Anonymous]

The folks at OGR are obviously not trained journalists or professional photographers nor do they have the resources like Kalmbach has. You have to take that into consideration when reading the magazine.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M. DONALDSON

The folks at OGR are obviously not trained journalists or professional photographers nor do they have the resources like Kalmbach has. You have to take that into consideration when reading the magazine.

Good points. When compared to Kalmbach publications, many other hobby magazines are "mom and Pop" operations. OGR simply doesn't have the same resources at it's disposal. That doesn't make it bad, but it does make Rich Melvin's job a lot more difficult. I just had a chance to look through run 202, and I thought it was a bit light for content, but I did like Don Grabski's article on replacing lightbulbs with LEDs on 022 switches. Lots of ads and new product listings though.

[Anonymous]

Notch,

If you are unhappy with the condition of your CTT subscription copy, just call the customer service 800 number (it's in the beige column right across from the editorial) and another will be sent to you immediately. You can do this as often as you feel necessary.

Thanks,
Neil Besougloff
editor, CTT

[Anonymous]

Summertime is generally a low point for toy trains. This is generally reflected in the lack of solid articles in the publications. It'll be 90 degrees for the next couple of weeks and everybody is just thinking of cooling off.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by M. DONALDSON

The folks at OGR are obviously not trained journalists or professional photographers nor do they have the resources like Kalmbach has. You have to take that into consideration when reading the magazine.

Good points. When compared to Kalmbach publications, many other hobby magazines are "mom and Pop" operations. OGR simply doesn't have the same resources at it's disposal. That doesn't make it bad, but it does make Rich Melvin's job a lot more difficult. I just had a chance to look through run 202, and I thought it was a bit light for content,

Just a note here from a non-O gauger who does enjoy OGRJ.
I like the editorial content-it seems rich enough for the subject matter and holds a professionalism (heck, we ARE talking about toy trains) and I wouldn't be so quick to say that these people
aren't "trained journalists".

I will admit that CTT has a more "polished" look to it, and
that has a lot to do with desktop publisher$ and Kalmbach, but
as for content I think both magazines deliver.

Of course, like I said above, I'm into large scale not O gauge
but my big trains are run indoors with sectional tracks and
I find OGR and CTT topics to be geared more toward my
operations. For example, I was very interested in OGR's
DIY catenary article.

I kinda wish CTT would broaden their horizons and at least partially
focus on large scale but I bet that would really make the
O gaugers steaming (once in a while I see a LGB train or
review of a large scale engine in there to wet my whistle).

Cheers!

Tom M.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Neil - Keep up the good work!

[Dave Farquhar]

Tom, at one time CTT did a lot of G scale stuff and got criticized for it. At the time it was justified on the rationale that G scale trains are the classic toy trains of the future. But it seems a lot of Lionel and Flyer fans felt like they were paying too much for information that wasn't terribly useful to them, so you see a lot less G scale in CTT these days.

You might look into obtaining some of the older CTT issues, particularly from the early '90s.

I agree with you that off-scale information can still be useful. I read Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftstman even though they're mostly HO and N scale and I'm an O scale kind of guy. The plans for the most part all still work, you just have to enlarge them a little (or a lot). The techniques are the same, and there's a lot to learn. Whenever the opportunity strikes, I flip through the magazines that deal with other types of models too. Sometimes they have techniques we railroaders haven't discovered yet.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lehigh Valley Railroad

Why not post this over there.........?

If this thread was posted on OGR's Forum Melvin would delete it as soon as he became aware of it.
BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Anonymous]

No I wouldn't.

Constructive criticism never hurt anyone.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RIch Melvin

No I wouldn't.

Constructive criticism never hurt anyone.

Yes you would sir. You've deleted posts for less and we all know it.

[cbojanower]

Actually there was one along this line over at the OGR forum.... But I can't seem to locate it any longer?!?!??

I was going to point a link over to it to Support Rich and to let those whowant to comment to do so.. but I can't find it.

Rich, seems to be a credibilty gap forming, I hope its stil there but I'm just not seeing it

[Big_Boy_4005]

My goodness, both editors in the same topic. And to think, this isn't even the first time. At least they know how to play nice. Shouldn't we?[swg]

[Anonymous]

I mentioned this a few months ago. The article content of OGR is far
outweighed by advertising. (At the time I posted a page count of ads
vs. article content and listed full page ads, full page articles and part
pages of both catagories. The final count was 2 to 1 ads vs articles.)
That being said, I realise that advertisers help pay for the magazine,
but when the magazine becomes a catalog it's time to rethink a bit.
Also the articles are only about 1/2 to 2/3 of the page and the rest is
"white space". This looks more like a student's effort to make a 200
word essay into a multi-page thesis. The above-mentioned items plus
a few other things like arbitrary censorship and really boorish manners
exhibited at a recent train meet caused me to decide to not renew my
subscription to that magazine. I have been a subscriber since the
days it was known as O Scale Railroading magazine.

On the other hand, CTT over the years has been fairly well balanced as
to content vs. advertisements. They have also been fairly well balanced
as to the tpoic material covered and have gone to pretty great lengths
to not show bias towards or against a particular facet of the hobby. Yes,
occasionally they drifted towards a particular brand or era, but when the
subscribers brought this up to the editorial staff the situation seemed
to get resolved fairly promptly. As for product reviews, CTT usually calls
it as they see it even if the review is not always favorable to an advertiser.
On the other hand, the criticism is always constructive and not vindictive.
That, in itself, goes a long way towards building relationships between
hobbyists, advertisers and subscribers. On the rare occassions I have
had a problem with CTT service (usually concerning missing/damaged
issues of the magazine) I have gotten prompt courteous service from
the publisher's staff

The same differences also show up and are mirrored in the two publish-
ers' web sites, thus, again, I no longer post or read the OGR site but rather
correspond here and another model railroad site as they are more open
minded towards their posters and less biased towards any group or sub-
group. As it should be.

I realise that no publication or web site can be all things to all people, but
CTT is pretty darned close! Keep up the great work! Lots of nice people
here. Maybe the competition will learn something? :)

[3railguy]

Both CTT and OGR put out a few ripe bannanas on occasion. Especially summer months. If I get valuable information out of just two pages alone, I feel it's worth the cover price. I do miss Doc Tinker and Jim Bunte.

[Anonymous]

Our forum sees a lot more action than this one or any other O Gauge forum on the net, for that matter. Things move off of page one very fast when the forum is busy.

Before you arrogantly tell others what I am or am not going to do; before you accuse me of having a credibility problem; before some of you know-it-alls condecendingly dismiss my comments as meaningless, you might want to do a little research to be sure of what you are talking about. That way some of you can avoid putting your foot in your mouth as you try to take yet another cheap shot at me.

I found these with a 15 second search on our forum:

"Run 202 Question"
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=8601027001

"Run 201 - A Blurry Issue"
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=550104077

"Summer Train Magazines Lacking"
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=7241016101

So...any apologies BillfromWayne, AmtrakJack, cbojanower?

Naw...I didn't think so.

As to the comments made about OGR having too much advertising, you should know that for every issue we publish, have to calculate the percentage of advertising pages in the magazine. This ad percentage information goes to the U.S. Post Office and determines the postal rate for that issue. Our ad percentage has always fallen between 50 and 53%, which is quite normal for this industry.

[middivrail]

Hay Rich I'll defend you. Last october was my first time at York. I went to the OGR meeting in the grandstands and I have to say it was one of my great memories. Rich I don't know if you remember it or not but you asked me if I was Clyde Coil, as you were looking at my name tag, know I'm not. So that little moment was just a nice memory on top of the whole experience of York. I currently have been an subscriber to CTT for over two years, have been buying OGR for a year at my local hobby shop and as soon as I have my lawyer paid off I'll commit to a subscription to OCR also. I would feel a loss if we didn't have either of these great magazines or both of these forums. I'm known as "prrlionel" on the OGR forum.

[brianel027]

It's too bad this whole topic even had to come up. I understand the concept of free speech, but the negative "thumbs down" picture with the thread starts things off on the wrong foot (or maybe that's thumb!). With some of the bad feelings that some have between the OGR and this Forum, I don't know if it's the wisest thing to pour salt into a cut that hasn't healed.

Okay, from one who has been "in the business" the new larger typeface of the editorial copy in the OGR magazine means easier reading, but also less copy in the same space.
Which means less info and possibly fewer articles. Thus I can understand the comments on less copy versus advertising, even though the acutal percentages have remained consistant.

That aside, I do believe when OGR asked, most folks that responded liked the new larger typesize. Both magazines (CTT and OGR) do differnt things. One doesn't really take away from the other. I know many guys who get both magazines, and if there was another one devoted to 3-rail trains, would probably get that one too.

The best thing to do if you want to see changes is to write to the editor' or publisher of each respective magazine. If they hear from enough folks, they'll probably make changes as they are in business and want to stay in business.

Each magazine has issues that are real good and not-so-good. But that opinion can vary widely depending on who you ask... an issue devoted to all-scale products would please some very much. Whereas an issue with an emphasis on 027 product would please me more than some others. But it doesn't matter... I still read the articles and product reviews of things I may never or would never buy. I just want to be informed and to keep on top of the latest offerings.

Wishing that the magazines would devote their editorial copy to soley this or that is as silly as wishing Weaver would make an 027 line of trains. I'm sure both magazines want to please as many folks as possible, and we train guys should cut them a little bit of slack once in awhile. Geez, I remember on the OGRR forum, there were some who thought that it was a waste of space for the OGR magazine to be reviewing starter train sets.

It's a big hobby today... more variety and options than ever before. We hobbiests like it that way too. It means we can have the kinds of layout we really want with the kinds of trains we really want to run. But this means (from a publishing point of view) more areas to cover than ever before. The magazines would have it a little easier if today's hobby was a varied and complex as the Lionel product line of the 1950's.

[3railguy]

Forum size isn't everything. I think it boils down to different strokes for different folks. The largest church in our town is catholic and our town is dominated by catholics. Does this make catholics more right with God, because their church is the largest? Like churches have different denominations, CTT and OGR have a character of their own and groups of loyalists. None are really the best however.

[Anonymous]

Sorry Rich but I looked at your magazine yesterday in B&N and your advertising and product features are excessive, far more than the 50 to 53% you quote.

[cnw1995]

I took both the latest OGR and CTT on my recent trip to Rome and both inspired some interesting positive nostalgic comments from my seatmates. Vive le difference!

[waltrapp]

GREAT ISSUE!!!! Oh, did I remember to say that I have a blurb in it???? [;)]

Brianel: my blurb might interest you!

- walt

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RIch Melvin

No I wouldn't.

Constructive criticism never hurt anyone.

Mr. Melvin, I don't agree. I've seen too many threads and posts deleted on the OGR forum that contained constructive criticism of your advertisers.

[cbojanower]

Rich,

As I said in the original note, I hoped the thread was there, none of those 3 were the one I seem to remember reading. Perhaps my memory failed me, and I just thought it was there. if it did then I owe you an apology in this instance.

The article entitled "Summer Train Magazines Lacking" seems to be along the same lines as this thread. I would encourage those here to post their OGR specific comments there. http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=7241016101

[Anonymous]

As far as I'm concerned, there is way too much arrogance and condescension from the moderators and several people on the OGR forum. If you don't agree with them or tow the line, you're put down, insulted, or deleted. The several people I refer to are the pointy headed know it alls with the inflated egos who dispense their "words of wisdom" like they're doing us a favor. No thanks, I much prefer the CTT forum.

I would give OGR a pass on the current magazine. They do put out a good publication from time to time so they shouldn't be judged based on one lemon.

[highrailjon]

Well put Bill Conner!!!! It seems so hard to tell other people to take their foot out of their mouths when THEIR heads are so far up their butts. Can I apologize now? Oh, please me first, me first!! I dont think so.
As for the latest issue of OGR I cant really comment on it other then its getting some great use in the litter box. I cancelled but obviuosly no one listened. I'm just not a "know it all pointy head" after all!

[Anonymous]

Rich:

Let's face facts, the milque-toast constructive criticisms expressed in the threads you linked to in the above posts (on the OGR Forum) were no where as harsh as the very accurate and concise criticisms in the "Not impressed by OGR Run 202" which appeared on this Forum. Likewise a lot of constructive criticism in this thread was also aimed at CTT on their own forum.

Unfortunately, your pattern of arbitrarily deleting threads you don't agree with is well known, but now your rantings in your above posts only serve to confirm what we already know.

BillFromWayne
www.modeltrainjournal.com