American Flyer - 1/2 Speed Can Motor

[Gray Cat]

richhotrain

 

Gray Cat:

 

And where do we buy these cans? I think the idea of getting one of my Hudsons (pulling a Heavyweight consist) to smoke more would be a real treat.

 

 

GC,

I am not sure that you will get more smoke out of a 1/2 can motor than you will out of the vintage open-frame motor, but I am told that the 1/2 can will produce more smoke than the full can.

Portlines is a great source for can motors.  Here is the link:

http://www.portlines.com/

Here is the link to the page listing types of motors and pricing:

http://64.251.10.24/~worldofw/cgi-bin/shoppl.pl/page=canmotorconvkits.htm/SID=493927372

Rich

Rich, it does seem that by running a half speed motor you would be applying more voltage to get an equal amount of speed in comparison to the full speed motor. We get the most smoke at full throttle, but it's not practical to run at full throttle unless your last name is Addams. I do most of my running at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle now as I assume most of us do and all but the freshly rebuilt smoke units produce very little at these low speeds..

[richhotrain]

Gray Cat

And where do we buy these cans? I think the idea of getting one of my Hudsons (pulling a Heavyweight consist) to smoke more would be a real treat.

GC,

I am not sure that you will get more smoke out of a 1/2 can motor than you will out of the vintage open-frame motor, but I am told that the 1/2 can will produce more smoke than the full can.

Portlines is a great source for can motors.  Here is the link:

http://www.portlines.com/

Here is the link to the page listing types of motors and pricing:

http://64.251.10.24/~worldofw/cgi-bin/shoppl.pl/page=canmotorconvkits.htm/SID=493927372

Rich

[Gray Cat]

And where do we buy these cans? I think the idea of getting one of my Hudsons (pulling a Heavyweight consist) to smoke more would be a real treat.

 

"I love the smell of Flyer Smoke in the morning"

[lionelsoni]

Here is a link to a photograph of the motors:  http://sns-trains.com/albums/main.php?g2_itemId=108

Notice that the one-start worm on the left has a different, flatter slope to its thread than the two-start worms.  This is inevitable, because the turns of the helical thread are half as far apart as on the two-start worms.  Normally, the teeth on a worm wheel are cut diagonally to accommodate this slope.  That is why I am puzzled that the one-start worm would mesh "perfectly" with a worm wheel designed for a two-start worm.

[Major]

I'll try to answer your question as the 1/2 gear shafts meshes perfectly with the original gear on the axles. If you take one string and wrap it around a pencil the distance between the string wraps is exactly the same as if you wrap two strings around a pencil.  The difference of course is that on the two string wrap each individual string is twice as far apart from each wrap of the same string.  Unless you look at the end of the shaft you cannot tell the difference between a 1/2 speed gear and a regular gear.

I hope this helps.

[lionelsoni]

I asked earlier whether it was necessary to replace the worm wheel and was told no.  I have since looked up pictures of this motor and don't understand why this is so.  The worm on the half-speed motor indeed has only one start instead of two, but appears to be the same diameter as the two-start worm.  This places the worm's thread at a flatter angle relative to the worm wheel.  I cannot imagine how the two could engage properly, unless the worm wheel is extremely thin.  The only other possibility seems to be that the worm wheel is made of a soft material, plastic perhaps, and the new worm cuts or wears new teeth into it.  Can anyone give me a rationale for this? 

[SkyArcher]

Thanks for the pictures, Rich.  I have a bunch of 5 pole can motors, and I was just wondering if i can adapt them to a couple of my American Flyer engines.  *I might be better off ordering from Portline.

[Major]

You can see how the motor is mounted to a plate that fastens in the original Flyer motor mounts. This is mounted in a #293 New Haven Pacific.  Lots of room to place figures in the cab.

 

 

The motor is 1&1/2 inches long and 1 & 1/16 inches wide

This is the Bridge rectifier mounted to the reverse unit.  It was pre shape and I purchased it with the motor

Here is another view and you can make out the positive lead going to the lower fingers.

[Major]

It is just one unit.  The worm gear shaft is part of the motor just as it is with original Flyer steam locomotive armatures.  It is a very easy converson once the old motor is removed the can motor is mounted to a plate that attaches in the same way as the original motors do.  I will get a loco I converted out tonight take pictures and post some photos.

 

Rich

[SkyArcher]

Major

The difference is in the worm.  Original Flyer worms had two groves, the half speed motors have one grove.  Therefore the have to rotate twice where as the original motors rotated once to move the locomotive the same distance.  I have half speed motors and you definitely get better slower speed performance.  But if you want to run fast even the half speed motor will kick out plenty of speed, It is like the speed equivalent  on some S- Helper locos.  I have been completely satisfied with their speed range. 

 

Are the worm gears separate from the can motor shaft or machined into the motor shaft?  Can they be bought separately?

[Timboy]

Thanks Major:

I did a Google on "Crazy Cat".  Be careful if you do cuz, well...  Anyway, I got a couple stoopid avatars out of it that I just love.  It IS a cat.  A very, very wet and old cat.  I just can't believe a cat can look like that, but that is exactly how I feel a lot of times.

I need to scratch-build a food factory some day and name it, "C. Heston's Food Factory" or something like that.  Well, hey!  Green is IN!  LOL   Oh...  So many things on the RR to do.  Sigh.

Thanks again!

Timboy

[Major]

Your welcome I also like your current avatar. 
Best picture yet!   LOL

P.S I had to watch again Soylent Green.  LOL

 

Merry Christmas!

[Timboy]

Major:

Good to know!  People usually say that when they want someone to shut up, but in this case, I really mean it.  Thanks!  I was wondering about the measurement on them and quite frankly, I was very skeptical about their performance.  You have answered that issue as well in a previous post, I think.  Good stuff, Major.

Thanks again,

Timboy

[Major]

The motors are only slightly longer that the original ones and do not protrude at all from the rear of most locomotives.  They may from a 0-6-0  switcher.  They are smaller in diameter than the original.  No modifications to the chassis or other gears are required. Un-screw the original and disconnect the wires insert the replacement and screw it in place.  I went the cheap route and got the bride rectifier to put on the mechanical reverse unit.  Just follow the wiring instructions, no permanent modification to the reverse unit  Wire the smoke unit and light directly to the tender trucks. With just two wires going to the motor and two going to the smoke and light the wiring harness matches in appearance the original Flyer four wire locomotives.

[lionelsoni]

Major, is it not also necessary to replace the worm wheel to match the angle of the new worm's threads?

[Timboy]

Major:

Out of curiosity, how do the 1/2 speed can motors compare in length with the Timko can motors that have a flywheel?  I suspect that the 1/2 speed cans are shorter than the Timkos and would protrude out the back less far and therefore when the can housing is painted black, it would be a lot less noticeable.  

Regards,

Timboy

[Major]

The difference is in the worm.  Original Flyer worms had two groves, the half speed motors have one grove.  Therefore the have to rotate twice where as the original motors rotated once to move the locomotive the same distance.  I have half speed motors and you definitely get better slower speed performance.  But if you want to run fast even the half speed motor will kick out plenty of speed, It is like the speed equivalent  on some S- Helper locos.  I have been completely satisfied with their speed range. 

[richhotrain]

If all else fails, and I have to replace my vintage open frame motor, my only recourse is a can motor.

My understanding is that a 1/2 speed can motor will result in better smoke production than a full speed can motor.

But, is a 1/2 speed can motor literally that, 1/2 speed?

Let's say it takes 18 seconds for a fully functioning American Flyer #312 steam engine to complete one cycle around the layout at full speed using my current transformer.  Does this mean that a 1/2 speed can motor will take 36 seconds to complete the cycle?

Of course, I am willing to concede that in its current state, my open frame motor may only be running at 1/2 speed, so maybe it should complete the cycle in 9 seconds.

What might help is for someone to time the speed of his AF steam engine on an oval or circle layout.  How many seconds to complete the cycle with just the engine and tender, and what s the length of the oval or circle.

I would appreciate any thoughts or comments that you might have on this issue. 

Rich