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736 or 2046 ?

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736 or 2046 ?
Posted by traindaddy1 on Friday, July 2, 2010 9:42 AM

If you had a choice, based on your experience with the engine's performance, which would you select and why?   736 Berkshire  or  2046 Hudson   As always, many thanks.

 

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Posted by Train-O on Friday, July 2, 2010 10:11 AM

traindaddy1,

I have the 2046,1950 version and I find it to be a work horse.  I would imagine that the 736 with its finer, beefed up, engine would be a little stronger and smoother, than the 2046.

Ralph

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Posted by sir james I on Friday, July 2, 2010 10:38 AM

They are both good but I'd pick the 736 for it's wheel looks and easy to work on motor.

"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 2, 2010 10:41 AM

Don't sell yourself short... buy both! ;)

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Posted by RockIsland52 on Friday, July 2, 2010 11:22 AM

lionroar88

Don't sell yourself short... buy both! ;)

I love a problem solver who always has the best interest of the rest of us at heart.  Big Smile   Having both the Husdson and the Berk in the stable would be my first choice.

Someone may want to jump in here, but I have to ask:  why would a 736 have any more pulling power than a MagnaTraction 2046?  Both have 4 of the drive wheels actually driving.  In my experience, the only pulling limitations on my 2046 (3 window 1950) have been tractive and curve- diameter-related, not a lack of motor power.

Jack

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Posted by overall on Friday, July 2, 2010 12:19 PM

My guess is the 736 would have a little more pulling power than the 2046. I have both and they are both good engines. I have a slight preference for the 736 because I have ridden behind both NKP 765 and PM 1225 and had a lot of fun doing it. Seeing the 736 run reminds me of those good times.

 

George

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Posted by Hudson#685 on Friday, July 2, 2010 12:35 PM

They are both great engines, but I am biased to Hudsons and I have a 2046.

John

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Posted by Train-O on Friday, July 2, 2010 1:08 PM
RockIsland52, Both the 736 and 2046, made in 1950, have Magne-Traction and are great work horses, but compared to the 2046, the 736 has a motor that is designed to be stronger, smoother operating and requires less voltage for it to function. Ralph
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Posted by servoguy on Friday, July 2, 2010 2:44 PM
I agree with Ralph. I have three 736s and a 2046. The 736s definitely run smoother and require less voltage than the 2046. Bruce Baker
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Posted by RockIsland52 on Friday, July 2, 2010 3:14 PM

I will defer to those more knowledgeable than I that the 736 will run on less voltage, but when is the last time that ever became a factor when running your trains?

What do you mean when you say the 736 runs smoother than the 2046?

I'm not trying to defend or support one or the other.  But the original question was one of "performance." 

I like smooth, consistent low speed operation, the ability to haul the heavier postwar cars, negotiate O27 without the wheels binding on the rails around the bends when operating on someone's O27, minimal driver slippage when starting up with a heavier load in tow, and the ability to haul a longer consist if I want.  I never came close to running out of transformer voltage on my ZW with my 2046.

So I too am interested in the performance aspect between the two engines.

Thanks,

Jack

IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.

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Posted by Train-O on Friday, July 2, 2010 4:27 PM
Thanks Bruce, RockIsland52, The 736 motor is a different designed motor, not only stronger, but requires less voltage and creates greater torque, which causes a more smoother operation, quicker movement and more tractive effort, which helps to run the engine at a slower speed. The motor used in 736 costs more and requires less maintenance, than that of the motor used in 2046. That's the best that I can explain. Other forum members may explain it better, than I. Ralph
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Posted by traindaddy1 on Friday, July 2, 2010 7:02 PM

Thanks for your responses so far.  I'll keep reading.  (I'm at a crossroads. Confused Both would be great but the budget says: "Just pick one" ) Sad

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 2, 2010 8:02 PM

if you only have budget for one, and you have access to both, my recommendation would be to buy the one that is in the best condition. You won't be disappointed with either.

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Posted by RockIsland52 on Friday, July 2, 2010 11:52 PM

I'd really like a 736 for my next steamer, early 50s version.  The better ones cosmetically on auction seem to be fetching $300+ with tender on Ebay.  But if I had neither the 736 or the 2046, i agree with Brent.....condition would be my first consideration.....and either one floats my boat. 

My 2046 is 60 years old and runs as good as the day I got it.  So forgive me if I sounded biased.  It is just so bulletproof, and the Berk boiler and multiple drive rod assembly sets it apart from so many other postwar steamers in my opinion.  I don't have any multiple engined locos, so the 2046 is my strongest puller.

Jack 

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Posted by servoguy on Saturday, July 3, 2010 2:22 AM
My experience has been that my 736 starts smoother than my 2046 which is important for starting long trains. It also runs better at low speed. However, when I tried it on 1122 O-27 switches, it didn't like them at all. Other guys have said that they have a 726 (should be the same as a 736) which negotiates 1122 switches without a problem. The 736 will negotiate 022 switches without a problem. Bruce Baker
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Posted by Train-O on Saturday, July 3, 2010 6:25 AM
To All, I hope that I did not offend anyone, but I am only telling the differences between both of the engine's motors and I say again that the 2046 is a dependable workhorse. My wife bought me the 2046, second hand, years ago and that baby is still running strong and I love it. I don't have the 736, but reading about it and looking at schematic illustrations, of it, shows the type of motor it has and Lionel used that motor, or close to it, in their premium engines. The 736 is the 1950 Magne-Traction, updated version of the 726. The 736 has both an ornamental bell and whistle, amongst other detailing and the 2046 only has the ornamental bell. I added a whistle, to my 2046, to give it a more realistic prototype appearance. Ralph
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Posted by sir james I on Saturday, July 3, 2010 9:05 AM

There both good engines, get the one that appeals to you, or even  better get both, one now one later. Also consider the MPC engines Lionel made copys of the originals in real RR names.

"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks 

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Posted by RockIsland52 on Saturday, July 3, 2010 9:59 AM

Train-O
........To All, I hope that I did not offend anyone............

 Ralph

Ralph.....no offense taken.  As Hudson John said, some of us are partial to Hudsons.  Others to what they had as kids.  And others to what they have acquired and run over a greater period.  To me your choice to me is win-win between the two.  My experience and opinion is just that of 1 and is of no material consequence.  But the 2046 for me has filled all of my wants and needs.  I like it's side rod configuration and Berk boiler detail over the other semi-scale Hudsons (685, 2055, 2056, and 2065)   I'd like to get a 773 scale Hudson, but it is a little too pricey for my tastes. 

My wife thinks I am a nutcase, but I don't share her opinion and think her experience with me proves otherwise......almost.  Big Smile 

Happy hunting!  Listen to these guys about what they like about each, functionally and in appearance.  Be patient, listen to 88 Brent, and wait for the best sample you can find.

I like Bruce's take on operating over switches and the start -up and smooth slow operation.  And I think Train-O is right about the 736 motor being the premier at the time.   

And as SJ said, once one bird is in the hand, you can continue to shop around for the other, for down the road.  Both the 2046 and the 736 are plentiful and I can't see it changing; so there is no rush unless a choice piece shows up.  A bird cannot fly on one wing alone.....oh wait, that is my excuse for never having just one beer.    

Let us know what you are finding and what you score.  Most of these guys are pretty savvy about what you can expect to pay.  In my experience the 736 Berks fetch $75 more for the better examples over the 2046 Hudsons, with tenders.   I think it is because the 8 drive wheels look sweet and in real life the Berks were arguably more prodigious haulers.

Jack

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Posted by DMUinCT on Saturday, July 3, 2010 10:17 AM

A quite July 3rd, just as well look at Lionel History.

   Both the 2046 and 726/736 owe there start to the Pre-war 226E.  The 226E was a "Baby Hudson" to sell into the "O Gauge" market of 1938 and had the 2226 die-cast tender. The scale hudson, 700E -5344, was for "O-72 Gauge" only. The 226E had only a two wheel pilot truck but was otherwise a great model.   Power for it, like most Lionel engines, used the proven Parallel Plate AC/DC motor driving the wheels through a group of cut steel gears.  Only the top end Hudson and 8976 Switcher got the horizontal motor with worm/gear drive. The Worm Drive uses "ball bearing" thrust bearings on the motor shaft which has the steel worm mounted.  One of the drivers has a bronze gear mounted on its axle that "meshes" with the worm. This is a very smooth drive used in industry to this day.

    The 226 reappeared as the 726 in 1946, this time with an 8 wheel -- worm/gear drive under the hansom castings and with a smoke unit added.  The die-cast tender became 2426.   Later, with the adding of Magne-Traction in 1950, the number changed to 736. ( For one year, 1952, Magne- Traction was removed and it became a 726-RR) The tender was now the 2671 twelve wheel plastic model.  In later years it would get the 2046 eight wheel tender.

    The coming of the 2046 in 1950 was a re-birth of the 226E.   With a cheeper smoke box front and the 2046 plastic tender it did have lots of improvments.  Magne-Traction, Smoke, and the proper 4 wheel pilot truck made this a great looking locomotive.  With basically the same motor as the pre-war, it became a great runner.

  It's your choice, get a good one checking it for gear wear, E Unit, and Whistle operation. The 726/736 is the "Bershire" Freight Locomotive with a better drive and motor.  The 2046 is the "Hudson" Passenger Locomotive with a well proven motor and gearing.    12 wheel tenders, if added, really improves the looks of ether locomotive.  I have all 3 in my collection (226E, 726, 2046) and am glad I do not have to choose.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

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Posted by LL675 on Sunday, July 4, 2010 9:58 AM

I have both a 736 and the 2046. I like them both. be hard to chose. so get both!

Dave

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Posted by RockIsland52 on Sunday, July 4, 2010 2:06 PM

Don......wow!  Your post is a keeper.  Thank you for taking the time to educate us.  So what you are saying is that it might be appropriate to buy the whole family of each.......Big Smile

Jack.

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Posted by Train-O on Sunday, July 4, 2010 8:22 PM
Don, Your knowledge and vast information is most welcome. Thank you, Ralph
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Posted by traindaddy1 on Thursday, July 8, 2010 6:00 AM

Follow-up:    I decided to "go-for-it" on both. 

My budget for each, realistic or not, was set at around $230 for an engine and a tender. My usual venue: "E-Bay".  (please, no comments)  

I was outbid.  The 736 went for $260 and the 2046 for $240.  

Well, I'll just wait on the platform.  Another train always comes into the station Smile 

Many thanks for all your advice.

 

 

 

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Posted by trainfan504 on Thursday, July 8, 2010 6:30 AM
lionroar88

Don't sell yourself short... buy both! ;)

I agree LOL
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Posted by Hudson#685 on Thursday, July 8, 2010 7:18 AM

Traindaddy1,

Next month on August 14&15, the greenburg Show is at Raritan Center in Edison, NJ., just over the VZ and  the Outerbridge. I find the best prices there are at the August show. Last year I picked up a nice 2055 w/tender for $75. It might be worth the trip.

John

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Posted by traindaddy1 on Thursday, July 8, 2010 7:42 AM

John: I might just do that. Thanks for the tip.

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Posted by Berk765 on Thursday, July 8, 2010 9:52 PM

I would get both engines. Someday I will have a 736, I already have a 726 so it would be an excellent companion for the 726. I also have the 2046 (the later version with white lettering), its probably in the worse condition compared to my other engines but it has alot of charactor and history. ( I thought about trying to restore it but that would be so wrong) Its a real workhorse and I am proud of it, and I think its my favorite Hudson that I do have or one of my favorites. Like I said, get both engines eventually, anything made by Lionel in the good ol' US of A in the pw era is awesome.Cool

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Posted by RockIsland52 on Friday, July 9, 2010 4:05 PM

If any of you think for one split second that I am 2046-biased, er, well,......you are right.  Not ashamed to admit it.  But my life will not be complete until I have a postwar Berk in the stable.

The 2046 Hudson was the very first engine my Dad bought for me but not the first one he gave to me.  I think he delayed giving it to me because he thought it was too heavy, too difficult to put on the track, and the details like the handrails too delicate for a youngster just starting out. 

Jack

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Posted by Hudson#685 on Friday, July 9, 2010 7:06 PM

Jack,

My first engine/train set that my Dad got me was the 685 Hudson, that came in the 2201WS Four Car Freight Set, in 1953 and sold for $39.95. He was a lineman for the NJ Bell Telephone Company taking home $49 a week. I was real small and he saw my eyes light up when I saw that set and he bought it. He was also working cutting trees part time. I still have the set today and it has been for all these years one of my most cherished possesions that will be handed down to my son.

I don't have a 736 Berk in my roundhouse, but it is on the aquisition list.

John

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Posted by servoguy on Friday, July 9, 2010 9:52 PM
Jack, What year did you get the set? Your comment about your dad making $49 a week is a data point for me. I am trying to develop a small data set of what salaries were in the past. Thanks Bruce Baker

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