Fordiesel69,
Here's an Olsen's Toy Trains Part link which lists ans shows Lionel's 2343 F-3 Power unit, with Magne-Traction and put out in 1950: http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/2343p.htm
Good Luck,
Ralph
He did discribe the running condition. So when you buy sight unseen you take a chance. This time you did not do so well, if you can, might as well fix and keep.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
CW has a good point.
You have to return it exactly as received and prove your point, that the condition was not as advertised. Even then the seller may balk. Many sellers, however, want the satisfaction rating and you may simply be able to reverse the transaction and walk away.
Some of these auction items may be as tired on the inside as they are on the outside. Others may look on the outside like they have been through the veritable demolition derby wringer with some kids' play but have extremely low mileage or wear and were decently stored. Which is yours?
Do you have a local repair guy who can give you a second, nose in the patient's incision opinion, without cleaning and lubrication? While you test out the "return" waters?
The bird in the hand may very well be: cosmetic issues but stored decently, appears to be lower than average mileage, meachanicals fixable at a reasonable price or effort. This F3 is 60+ years old.
Your fun continues.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
IMHO, once you alter the piece in any way, including cleaning and lubrication, you are stuck with it.
As far as the condition goes, the seller did say it starts and stops. At that point, folks should realize that they are buying a "pig in a poke"Sellers are typically going to be charitable in their favor when describing their merchandise.Buyers should rely on pictures. If all sides aren't shown, you are safer assuming that the best side is shown. And there are folks who use their TCA, LCCA, TTOS, etc., as a license to be dishonest.
I suckered myself recently when I saw a lot of Lionel trains at the last minute, and decided to bid. I couldn't blame the seller because he did state the items needed work. When I got the stuff, all but one piece went directly into the junk pile. It's stuff I wouldn't foist off on someone else, having very little value, even as parts. Sometimes Ebay yields bargains, other times one can overpay.
Yes. 2343 SF has Magnetraction. Your 2333 SFdoes not.
Bill's 2245 TS is single motor and has Magnetraction..
2333 SF and 2343 SF are dual motored.
You asked if you got screwed. You may have paid on the heavy side for what you you got, but my feeling is this. You now have the earliest sample of a Postwar Lionel F3 Warbonnet, Lionel's first F3, and you can enjoy it. I paid nothing, but I have nothing and am F3-less. Who is closer to fun? You are.
Fix it up, clean it up (read up on how to do safely without damaging the paint and decals). Then polish (read up on that too to avoid damading the paint and decals). Now you are operationally set. Then if the cosmetics bother you, you can look for better shells and sell shells you have that you cleaned up.
As a businessman I always say that a plan ill conceived but violently executed will nonetheless succeed. My opinion.
Jack.
It is a 2343 with magnatraction.
Seems high for the mechanical issues. I picked up a few months ago from one of the PostWar auctioneers the 2245 Texas Special AB, mechanically in excellant condition, cosmetically a few scratches and missing the porthole windows for $160.
Bill T.
The 2333-20 on the frame doesn't tell you the model number; the number boards do. If they are unreadable, the easiest way to tell a 2343 from a 2333 is by its having magnetraction.
Bob Nelson
The other thing to do is not to get caught up with bidding. Decide how much you want to pay and bid that much. If you win, great, if not, wait for the next one to come along.
At least you got your purchase. I had one seller string me along about shipping until the time limit ran out for recourse through E-bay. Reported him anyhow. Fortuantely, the sale price of the item was in the tens of dollars not in the hundreds of dollars. I chalked that up as a lesson to watch the time and use the resources of e-bay and paypal in a timely manner.
That number is on the bottom of more than one engine. The chassis could even be from something else. What number is in the number boards? Should be 2333, 2343, or 2353. The screen vents make them 1949- to about 1953 I think. I agree that for the condition you descibe it was too much. With several people bidding on an item it can go for much more than it is actually worth. You have to just back off in those cases. The thing about Ebay is there will always be another one come along. Watch out for schill bidders and people with very low purchase numbers. Both will drive the price out of site.
Roger
Fordiesel69:
I agree with Trainrat about sellers on Ebay. I have bought a number of items that in my opinion they were not to the same standards of grading as mine. When I bid, I keep the bid below the Greenberg low end price in the price guide in case any repairs have to be made. Exceptions are dealers that I have dealt with before, the stated condition and how bad I really want it, and I still stay toward the low end, set my price and I will not go 10 cents over it. The main thing is: ENJOY THE TRAINS and don't worry about the price. Reflect how you feel in his feedback rating. On more than 1 time I did not bid or buy now from sellers with negative feedback and his answer to it.
John
Fordiesel,
I don't know if I'd say that you got a bad deal, but that does sound high given the condition. The bad thing is that there is no way of knowing if the seller knew about the problems or not. Some open items up while others simply send the item out the door as soon as they get the item in hand. Worse yet are those who know about problems and lie to make a sale. I have been in similar situations like what you are going through several times, and I know how frustrating it can be. I fixed the items just as you did and enjoyed them. Trust me, I could tell you some stories about online purchases and even one on one deals at shows...
I can reverse my repairs completely except my time and the new wires, not biggie there. I bought a Postwar Lionel F3 Santa Fe A-A set. It is number 2333-20 on the bottom. I has the screened vents on top.
I kinda hope he can give me a partial refund rather than send them back. After all as a result of the distant picutres and basic decription, I and many others brought the bid way up. Cosmetically not C6, but I can sure live with the blemishes for the right price.
You do not mention what set you bought so I cannot say about that part. Ebay can be difficult to buy from because too many sellers either are not knowledgable, or are passing off their worst pieces from their collections. Others buy from an estate sale or somewhere else and try to make big bucks passing them off as something other than what they really are. Some people's idea of C6 can be anothers idea of C4. You have already repaired it so you have no recourse other than to keep it. Paypal offers buyers great protection now. All the parts are available to repair. Enjoy your train.
Well, I usually never get screwed on ebay except I beleive this time. I bid on a A-A set and won at $345. His auction stated C6 Excellent, trains have no broken or missing parts, and that the train was tested and was sliggish + start/stops, to the effect the wheels and gears need greased and that it was not done recently. This is not verbatim from the auction but close.
Anyways what I found is the rear truck brass gear was worn so bad, it slipped, hence the start/stop. Bushings are worn for the worm shaft ends, and allows LOTS of play which probably put extra wear on the brass gears. The E-unit drum is warped / disfigured badly so that it hangs up, the factory horn is rusted out inside, and all the pieces rattle around, the motor brushes are worn out, the front coupler / coil is broken, and the collector wire was a hacked up speaker wire that melted as a result of being too small of guage. It runs good now that I cleaned it all up and locked the e drum in the correct position and swapped one of my spare trucks onto it. It is definatly not cosmetically a C6. However I could live the cosmetics as it still looks nice, but did I get ripped off on the mechanicals from it being misrepresented?
I know I placed the bid, but I assumed it would need cleaning, lubricatied, and a set of brushes. No big expense there.
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