Hand Laid O-27

[fredswain]

Last week I had mentioned in another thread that O-27 track is actually a gem to those interested in hand laying. It is cheap and plentiful and with a little patience can rival most other 3 rail track out there. It doesn't have to be expensive but it does take time. Time that many may not want to spend. However for those with lots of track lying around who have really wanted to get into high rail modelling who were considering switching over to another brand, here is an alternative. It isn't quick but it is rewarding. The first few pics are just going to show the evolution of how I arrived at this setup which I fondly refer to as "a poor man's tubular track for the 21st century". Just because you are into tubular track with 3 rails doesn't mean that you can't be a scale modeller!

This is a comparison photo of a standard O-27 straight vs the new handlaid one.

This is a photo of an Atlas 3 rail piece next to the hand laid piece. Notice that my tie spacing is identical to the Atlas piece. Also notice my blackened (not painted) center rail and individual spikes. This takes time but looks really nice.

 

 

This photo shows the evolution of my attempts to current. The top piece is obviously a standard O-27 straight, The next one down was my first attempt at making it look better. I built this one after seeing some Gar Graves track and liking it. I went to a craft store and bought some strip wood that looked decently close to the width of the standard metal ties. I cut them at 2-1/8" long and glued them on with liquid nails. On a few pieces I left the metal ties and added in between. Others I had removed completely. This one still has one metal tie left. The rails were painted brown and the center rail painted black. I did have issues with ties coming loose. I laid a small loop of track before realizing that I wasn't going to be happy. Up it came having never had a train run on it.

 

Next up was the idea of using closer to real tie spacings. I found an old tie size and spacing chart for outside 3rd rail from somewhere around the 40's or 50's that showed 1/4" wide ties and spacing with every 5th tie being 3" away. I cut these out of strip wood from a craft store and stained them. This is actually what I was doing the week that Hurricane Ike hit us here. I had no power for 2 weeks but had alot of strip wood and track pieces! These were also glued down using liquid nails and then individually spiked. The tie spacing wasn't exact as I pretty much just laid every 6th tie down according to a set distance and then eyed all those in between. I was happier with this but now I was about to get married and be forced to move. On hold it went. I ended up in an apartment near downtown Houston where I have a bedroom with an n-scale layout taking up one half and my O-scale track work station on the other side getting my studrail track going. My friend Chad wants to build a nice 3 rail layout in his attic so the idea came back out again. We looked at my pieces and were fairly happy until I started to look even more closely at the idea. There was an easier way and a quicker one at that. There were also some new things to try.

 

That leads us to my final version. Gone is the liquid nails. The tie spacing is straight off of the branchline jig from Fast Tracks' hand laid track jig. The ties are 2-1/4" and also from them. Insert the ties in the jig and they are perfectly aligned. I already have their jigs. The branchline jig has the same tie spacing as Atlas track so that made things easy. I secured the rails with Pliobond just like on other hand laid track. I am using short O scale spikes from Micro Engineering to secure the rails. I have not painted the outer rails at this time. The center rail is blackened with a product called "Neolube" which I bought from MicroMark. This product is basically graphite in alcohol and is electrically conductive. It will wear off over time though. You need to be very careful that the surface that you are applying it to is absolutely clean with no oils or grime. If any is present the Neolube will rub off. Even oils from your skin will cause it not to stick. The final result you see at the bottom next to the Atlas 3 rail track piece.

 

Hopefully this week I can get around to writing up a tutorial to show each step so others can try it. Later on I'll show how to build your own switches from straight and curve pieces (O-27, O-42, O-54, #4, etc...) but that isn't as easy. I'm sure it's what everyone wants to see first though!

 

Fred

[mackb4]

  Fred that looks great !

 I really like the one on the last picture second from the top.

 I'll can't wait for your tutorial,thanks for posting.

 

[fifedog]

Fred - Love your results.  Even though I use K-line O throughout my layout, I was thinking of using the lower profile O-27 for spurs and industrial areas.  Gonna try your ideas.

Thanks for posting.  (would look good in print --hint* hint*)

[traindaddy1]

FRED:    Wow!   Looks great.   Many thanks for sharing.  To those guys on the Modeler's Forum......"Eat your hearts out!  There are modelers over here too."  Am looking forward to your follow-up posts.  Thanks, again.

[fredswain]

I thought some of you guys would like that. If any magazine wants a printed article, I'll gladly write one. Of course I could just give you a tutorial here instead that they could then just use. I'll actually do it in 3 sections. I'll start from easiest to hardest which means straights, curves, and turnouts. Keep in mind that I don't have any of this running on a layout anywhere but there's not any question of it not working. Track is track and it tests fine on carpet. I am pursuing studrail for my own personal use so this is ultimately for my friend Chad to install on his upcoming attic layout. His layout will be an exercise in how to be a complete cheapskate while still wanting things to look pretty good. It sounds like a good challenge to me!

The straights are simple to do. Curves bring a couple of issues and an extra step but are still pretty easy to do. Switches however is where things get complicated and where the most time and effort are required. I have only built one to date and there are many things that I'd do differently next time but it worked. I have no desire to show it off though! It wasn't pretty. After I show you how to do straights and curves, I'll work more on the switches and try to find some better and easier ways to do things. It will involve some resin casting work and more manual labor but it is always the first one that is hardest.

Tonight I'll try to start getting some good pics and a step by step on building the straights. Hopefully by the end of the week you'll see the first one. Here is a material price list so you can get an idea of how much it all costs to do.

1: Tie jig from Fast Tracks: $14.99. You only buy this once and just use it over and over again.

2: 1000 Ties from Fast Tracks: $23.60. That works out to $0.023 per tie.

3: 5000 short O scale spikes from Old Pullman: $23.99. That equals $0.0048 per spike.

4: Pliobond adhesive: $5.59 or so per tube.

Figure that there are 26 ties per foot. This means you'll have about $0.61 in ties per foot and at 156 spikes per foot (!), you'll spend about $0.75 in spikes. That's basically $1.36 or so per foot of track not counting the cost of the track itself assuming you didn't already have it and not counting adhesive or jig costs. The more you build, the less that stuff adds up. Aside from your time, it's pretty cheap financially. Finish it off as you please. I prefer to use Dark Walnut stain.

Fred

[SleeperN06]

Hey this is great. The funny thing is that just last night I was trying figure out how to take apart a section of rail so that I can cut it and install insulators to make my own Auto Crossing Signal connection. I don’t like the looks of the lockon contactor.  I figured it out but wasn’t so sure how I was going to glue the cut section back in. I was pondering the idea of inlaying into some clear epoxy resin, but if ties can be glued on then that will work too.

[fredswain]

I am not a fan of relying only on glue to hold ties unless you are still using the standard metal ties. The glue may or may not hold and I've had a few break off just by handling them. Gluing and spiking them pretty much takes care of it. My first attempts used epoxy but I couldn't get it to hold. Liquid nails wasn't much better. You need a glue that remains a little bit flexible such as Pliobond or contact cement.

Fred

 

[steveo]

 Fred

You have done a lot of work and I hope to use a lot of your information. Just getting started and from reading a lot on this forum know I need to know more before I nail down my track. 

Thanks

[asch]

This is an awsome concept and a fantastic post! I REALLY look forward to the switches. I have consider handlaying track in the past but may do it now thanks to you! I think this would be a GREAT how-to series for the magazine!

[lionelsoni]

For those wanting scale ties, a typical prototype tie is 9 inches wide (3/16 inch in 1/48 O scale), 7 inches deep (but who can tell, if it's ballasted?), and 8 feet (2 inches), 8 1/2 feet (2 1/8 inches), or 9 feet (2 1/4 inches) long.

[fredswain]

I just buy mine. You can get them from Fast Tracks or from Midwest Scale Lumber. MSL's ties are a little bit more expensive but are Basswood which is a hardwood as opposed to Fast Track ties which are White Pine, a soft wood. What is the difference in real world modelling use? I have no idea. They both seem to work fine. They are a scale 7" x 9" x 9' long.

Fred

[kpolak]

Fred:  Great idea!  Looks great!  What are you using for the stain?

Bob:  Thanks for the numbers!  I have a bunch of scrap I can cut up.  I'll build a jig too, 'cause I'm cheap like that.

Kurt

[fredswain]

Cheap is the name of the game! Use what you've got. I just so happened to have tie jigs and ties lying around. 

I prefer "Dark Walnut" Minwax stain. Although I've applied it by wiping it on with a rag, and even with a stain pen, the way I'm currently doing it is by laying a bunch of ties out on a newspaper and then spraying them with stain from a spray can. Obviously I don't do this in the house. I just let them sit for a day then flip them over and spray the other side. I typically stain ties in bulk so I have them.

You can simulate the look of real ties very well by taking a rasp ( a very rough file) and running it down the ties. The deeper you go, the older and more rotten the tie looks. Of course the rougher it gets, the lighter the stain should be as these old ties are probably pretty well dried out. For those I use "Early American". The rougher ties take the stain much better and get darker in color anyways so it's good to lighten them up. For the tubular track, I'm not going to these lengths. I'm just taking the ties as they come and am staining them with Dark Walnut. If they aren't dark enough, I'll go back and hit them again.

I drew up an O-54 switch in AutoCAD today at work. Next step is to get the tie pattern in the drawing with it and then work on getting the jig set up. As I said, that will be the last installment after the curve tracks. I'll try to take some pics of the straight assembly process tonight if I can. It may have to wait a couple of days though.

Fred

[fredswain]

OK here is as far as I got on the first installment. It isn't complete yet as it is midnight right now and I'm out of spikes. Rats! Oh well. This will give you a great idea of how it's done.

Stain your ties. I prefer to use a spray stain before I lay the track but it can be done afterwards by hand too. This is the quickest method I have found. Do it your own way. There are pros and cons to every method. As you can see I have before and after shots of the ties.

 

These are the jigs I am using for these pieces. They are from Fast Tracks and are available in 3 different tie spacings. They are called mainline, branchline, and siding. Mainline has the closest spacing and siding the farthest. Since branchline appears to be the same spacing as Atlas 3 rail track, that's what I chose to use. Of course you can always mix and match depending on your line. Perhaps your mainline is taller O track and your sidings are O-27 profile. Change the tie spacing too. It's prototypical aside from the whole tubular rail a scale foot tall thing. ;) The point is that there is no right or wrong way to do it so play around with this. Of course if you want more than one spacing, you need to buy more than one jig.

 

 

Here's a quick picture of a completed section sitting on a jig to show the spacing.

 

 

Since a standard piece of O-27 straight track, which is what I'm using, is shorter than the jig, I offset the missing ties to one side.

 

 

Take a piece of track and remove all of the metal ties. I bend the outer tabs up with pliers and then just slide the rails out but a flat tipped screw driver works just as well.

 

 

Make sure all of your rails are the same length. You'd be surprised how far off these can be. Here are rails from 2 straights that I pulled apart. As you can see the top 3 are longer than the bottom 3. On earlier attempts I didn't realize this and I had some gaps at track joints. Typically if you use rails off of the same piece, they will already be matched but double check this anyways.

 

 

I use 2 other track sections to hold my rails in place. I use pieces that I know have their ends aligned. As you can see, one of my pieces is an older attempt that has a couple of ties missing. I need the missing tie on the end to clear the jig. You'll see why in the next picture. Without this piece, I'd use another piece that has the standard metal tie moved over.

 

 

Here are the rails lined up over the tie jig. Here you can see why I needed that clearance on the end of one of the alignment tracks. It needs to clear the end of the jig. Since each straight hold 19 ties, that means 1 tie 10 in from each end will be dead center. The dimples on the rails from the original center tie typically line up well but it isn't too hard to visually see what centered is.

 

 

 

This is as far as I got tonight. The next step is to add Pliobond adhesive to the ties and the rail bottoms. There is a right and wrong way to do this. I'll show it tomorrow. Then it gets to spiking, and finally center rail blackening.

 

That's it for now. Get out those old track pieces, get some supplies and give it a try. By the way, each straight piece has 114 spikes in it and takes about 20 minutes to build if you are good! Scared yet?

 

Fred

[fifedog]

If you're scared, say you're scared...

I'm ready.

[kpolak]

Giddyup!

[servoguy]

 I built two O-31 manual switches using tubular track back in 1965.  I still have them.  When I get time, I will post pictures.  I also built a O-27 Y switch and a O-27 crossing using curved track.  I did all this back then with a hacksaw and hand tools.  Today, with a Dremel tool, it would be easier.  The switches worked well.  I don't use them anymore because I have 58 022 switches, and that is plenty. 

Using O-27 curved track, you can make your own wide radius curved track.  I have made some pieces in the past.  Carefully open up the tie at the opposite end from the pins and open up the tie in the center.  Do this for only the outer rail and center rail.  Use a flat screw driver and bend the ties only as much as you absolutely need to free the rail.  You cannot bend the ties very many times before they will break. 

Using your hands, gently bend each of the rails to a larger radius.  I made some that were 12 pieces to a circle and some that were 16.  12 pieces is going to be about O-41, and 16 pieces is going to be O-54.  When you have the track bent properly, put the rails back in the ties, and re-crimp the ties.  To re-crimp the ties, cut a block of wood to fit inside the tie, and mount it in a vise.  Use a flat screwdriver and hammer to re-crimp the ties.  

Next, cut off the ends of the outer and center rail so they match the length of the inner rail.  

I would do some of this myself except I am hooked on O-31 track and 022 switches.

Have fun

Bruce Baker

[PhilaKnight]

Holy cow, that to much like work. I lucked out one day and found 3 big bags of wooden tie in one of the junk boxes they had at the hobbie shop. They are not to scale but they make the O tube track look a little better. I still wish Lionel would come back out with Super-O track.

[fredswain]

Servoguy: Please do post pics of those old switches. I'd like to see if you have a better way of doing things than I do. Cheap and easy is the name of the game with this. 

I have actually never seen Super O track in person. I seem to own a piece of just about every other kind but that and old T rail have eluded me. In truth I've never pursued them. My favorite tubular track was old K-Line Super K which was O-27 profile with brown plastic ties. My 2nd hand laying attempt had ties spaced much like it. I used to play with it on the floor as a kid and still have an O-42 loop of it. My favorite O track was also from K-Line and was their Super Snap/Shadow Rail which was the tall rail with plastic ties and a black center rail. I still have an O-31 loop of it that I am looking to get rid of. I'd like to see Super O in person sometime to see why so many people wish it were still around. The tie profile seems a bit strange in pictures but pictures don't always tell everything. I'd like to see how a few things were done on it.

Fred

[servoguy]

 I think with a few wood patterns, the switches could be reproduced rather easily.  A Dremel tool would help a lot for cutting the tubular track.  It doesn't cut to well with a hacksaw even with a 32 teeth to the inch blade. 

I had a thought about bending the O-27 to a new radius.  You could build a roller using 3 small ball bearings arranged in a triangle.  With the proper spacing of the bearings, you could push a rail through the roller and have it right every time.  You would need a separate roller for each of the rails as they are different radius.

Fred, I think you could build almost any kind of switch you wanted to, even a double slip switch.  It would take some time and ingenuity, but it is possible.  I know the HO guys do it.

 BTW, I am playing with toy trains, not making a model rail road.  I have a carpet RR, and I just enjoy watching the train go around a very complex layout.  I'll post pictures of what I have.  I have track in 2 bedrooms of my townhouse, and I have 37 switches, 34 of which are on the main line.  The train runs all over the layout, operating the switches without any help from me.  I just get to watch.

Bruce Baker

[fredswain]

I found this little tidbit online that shows some custom built switches. Of course these are really meant for the toy train crowd as opposed to those looking for a more scale modelling aspect but not everyone wants that and these may work just fine.

http://www.tcaetrain.org/articles/operating/marxsw/index.html

Bruce, while I am building mine with realistic tie sizing and spacing, the switches are a bit of a compromise and are not done completely like other switches for other scales or 2 rail track. The main thing about mine is the ties and not so much the rest of the design. I have a rather unique way of fabbing up certain parts. I'm really just curious how you did yours. There is no one right way to do it and if some people want to build different switches for their own carpet central then hopefully this can help them too. My goal isn't to say any one approach is correct. It's really just to show that tubular rail can be a wonderful thing to mess with and detail and is cheap and plentiful. It doesn't matter if it is for a realistic protoypical model or a Christmas tree. Tubular track is fun!

Fred

[steveo]

 It sounds like something I will want to try, I have some extra 027 curved that I could make into 031 more or less to get my double rail set up. These are 1950 era track. Have worked in AutoCad 5 years and sheetmetal for 35 so should be able to with all your help.

 The switches sound like something I will need also. 

thanks for all your help

[fredswain]

One way I've made different radius track is to just take the inside rail completely off. Then move the inner and center rails over on the ties one space so the center rail is now the inside rail and the outside rail is now the center rail. Now you have a slightly different radius. That leaves you needing a new outer rail which I have caniballized from O-42 pieces and then just cut to length. It works pretty good but you end up with a lot of extra random rail pieces lying around. Tubular rail isn't that hard to bend. You just go slow. You can make pretty much anything you want which is nice.

Fred

[servoguy]

 Fred,

I think the main advantage of tubular track is that there is so much available at very cheap prices.  I bought 16 straight pieces recently for $4.  It was nice and clean.  $0.25 per piece is the price it was in 1950.  That was a fair amount of money in those days as a quarter would buy a loaf of bread with a nickel in change, but today, it is almost free.  For my carpet RR, I have stayed with O-31 because I don't have room for wider radii.  I like to get as much track as I can in a small space, so that is why the O-31.  I also think the 022 switches are extremely well designed and built and they will work almost flawlessly if they are reworked according to my post re 022 switches.  My experience with the 1122 O-27 switches is not as good, and they have no fixed voltage plug.  

Bruce

[fredswain]

No new pictures yet. I've spent the last 2 days cleaning up holiday decorations. I did notice something though which I will get some pictures of and that is of various tie spacings that manufacturers have used. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are 3 tie spacings available from Fast Tracks which correspond to 20", 22" and 24" on the prototype. I am using the 22" "branchline" spacing as it matches the Atlas track that I was copying. However I did notice that the closer 20" "mainline" tie spacing is a direct match for Lionel Fastrack! If you've ever wondered which manufacturer got it right, both did! I had also mentioned in the thread that my 2nd attempt used an old NMRA tie spacing for track that comes from the 40's or 50's which basically has every 5th tie spaced 3" apart center to center. It used 1/4" wide ties as opposed to the 3/16" ties I'm using now which is also basically what Atlas uses. That old tie spacing and tie width just so happens to exactly match old K-Line Supersnap and Shadow Rail track as well as old K-Line Super K O27 track.

I thought all of that was pretty neat. It's not random. Someone somewhere at one time figured these out and others have copied ever since. What goes around comes around.

Fred

[fredswain]

Not much to update yet. I just thought I'd show a picture of the workbench. Nothing to get excited about.

[underworld]

 Awesome work!!! Thanks for the tutorial!!!

 

       underworld

[fredswain]

I am waiting on a new supply of spikes to arrive so I can finish building the straight that I started showing. Then I'll show a curve. When I get the spikes in, I'll finish that little bit.

Unfortunately the turnouts may end up being a bit too advanced for a tutorial as I am currently building a mold for the frog/guardrails that I will end up resin casting. I didn't want to copy the old messy first one that I had built once. I wanted it to look nicer to match the track. That means it is more complex than it probably has to be but that's OK. It's time and not money. The center rail between the switch points where they diverge is actually going to be 1 piece that I will cut out of 1/4" bar stock steel and then blacken. This is above what many people can do although you could just work patiently with a die grinder it you had to. Then there is still the issue of the points themselves. I have a couple of ideas here but whether I copy the moving plate design of Lionel tubular turnouts or use actual rails is yet to be determined.

The good news is that since this is an O-54 turnout and that I'll have molds made for the difficult parts, I could always supply parts, a simple template, and instructions as a kit for someone to build their own or I could just supply them assembled. If I can find some old O-27, 72" DIA track pieces, I'll build a turnout from it too. That would be 2 different O-27 turnout options that are not currently available. After I finish the first one, I'll decide if I want to make a kit an option. Would anyone be interested in it if I did?

Fred

[asch]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Please continue this series......awsome work!

[fredswain]

Sorry I haven't updated in a while. I am still waiting for a new supply of spikes to arrive and can't really do anything else without them. Once I get them in, I'll finish the last little bit showing the bonding and spiking process on the straight piece and then show how to lay a curve. It is mostly the same though. I'll also show you have to make a very cheap and simple little trestle that is good for small ditches and gullies. It could be built in about an hour for a few dollars and looks pretty nice.

I have worked on a O-54 turnout which I teased you with above as it is in the picture of the workbench above. I am still working on the mold for the frog and guardrails which will ultimately be cast out of resin. That one is a bit of work up front but will be easy for anyone wanting to build their own turnout to just use my castings and some cut apart track.

Stay tuned.

Fred