I had an O22 that would not throw one direction. When I purchased it, ALL these steps had been done very well. It didn't last long. I narrowed it down to the sliding contacts. It had continuity problems in the sliding switch. There are 2 contact designs. Ones with tall contacts and switches that only have a small dot of contact material. It took a lot of spring tension added to the contact arms to get the small contact version to work reliably.
I got an older spare switch motor. The first thing I noticed on the sliding switches was there was about 1/8" of contact brush under the arms. They are riveted into the contact arms. Cleaned up this motor and everything works with little adjustment. This was a motor with the screw in bulb and cast metal lantern holder.
The long metal contact bar for the non derailing contact in the switch housing normally has a paper insulator where it croses over the switch motor. Mine was gone. I found an old greeting card for the right thickness of material. I cut a piece to fit. Cut T slits in both ends and then carefully position the card stock ends made by the slits under the metal strip to hold it in place. If you cut the T slits too wide, they wont have enough strength to hold it on.
The replacement motor had the lantern housing bent so much it dragged in the hole cut for it. I very carefully held the side of the lantern holder near the base or gears with needle nose pliers and used constant pressure for 20-30 seconds to bend it enough to clear. Be ready to replace it if it breaks instead.
I followed the listed steps in preping the replacement motor. I used a Rush-Eraser to clean contact areas. Only a little work is needed with this to clear corrosion or an oxide layer.
I used a tiny amount of No-Ox-Id contact grease on the main ground, 2 no-derail contacts, the center rail contact and the 4 sliding contacts. 4 of these are the electrical contacts made when the motor is attached to the switch. Tiny means a small dab on a Q tip. Then use the Q tip to treat all the contact surfaces. This should keep the oxidation down and allow use for years.
I use LED bulbs and have no problem with heat.
Details on maintaining switches with pictures.
I recently bought some more 022 switches, and when I serviced them, I learned a few new things.
The circuit board that carries the sliding contacts sometimes will rotate causing the sliding contacts to get out of alignment. I fixed this by putting two drops of solder on the metal slider that carries this circuit board. Get the solder close to the circuit board.
I now recommend using motor oil on the sliding contacts after cleaning them.
Some of the sliding contacts were rotating relative to the circuit board they are mounted on. I soldered these to the rivet that holds them, and as long as the rivet doesn't turn, the contact stays in alignment.
I discovered that the sliding contacts are sometimes made incorrectly. The fixed contact should be raised above the circuit board that holds it so the moving contact is not lifted off of the fixed contact by the circuit board. If the circuit board lifts the moving contact off of the fixed contact before the switch is near full throw (points incontact with the outside rail), then the points may not be close enough to the fixed rail to prevent derailing the engine. I fixed this problem by grinding a shallow groove in the circuit board with a drum sander on a Dremel tool. Check when you are done grinding that there is no small piece of circuit board remaining near the fixed contact. If there is, take a small screw driver and chip it away. After you are done with this modification, use a meter across the solder tabs of the fixed contacts to check operation. The meter should show continuity until the sliding contacts are off the end of the fixed contacts. When you put the switch back together, put a jumper from the center terminal to either one of the outside terminals and power the switch. Turn the lantern until you feel the motor come on. See how far the points are from the outside rail. They should be no more than 1/8 inch from the outside rail. Closer is better. Check both directions. This modification has made my switch operation absolutely flawless. And this is using steamers which always had a problem with these switches due to the low contact force of the pony trucks. The diesels always worked better because the wheels have a relatively high contact force.
I recommend you grind a groove at both ends of the fixed contact.
This modification is going to add some time to the rework process, but it sure does make the switches work well. I have 5 done so far, and 96 to go. No sweat.
gunrunnerjohnThe ones that I searched on for 99 cents all said 12V DC. The ones that are mentioned in the next message are only $2, and they appear to be AC/DC.
The ones that are mentioned in the next message are only $2, and they appear to be AC/DC.
Fix your search argument... you will get better results.
Rob
The ones that I searched on for 99 cents all said 12V DC.
They run on AC. I've bought them and I use them.
Town & Country Hobbies has them(the LED direct replacements) with the original globe shape.
Are you sure about that? They do advertise them as "for model trains" and such, and I know that doesn't mean anything--but wouldn't all the necessary circuitry already be in the bulb's base to allow it to run directly on the track (AC) power? Isn't that why they're taller in the first place? I'm tempted to buy a pack on the Bay and try one out just to see what happens.
All of those are DC bulbs, so you'd need to provide a diode in the switches to use them.
Has anyone had any luck using the white LED bulbs that are direct replacements for the 1445/53? They're available on eBay for roughly a buck apiece. My only concern is that they look a little "taller" than their replacements, so does the hood fit on properly? Anyone tried this? TIA.
When I said that it "runs cooler", I wasn't using very precise language. I could have meant that the filament had a lower temperature, which is part of what might make the lamp last longer. Instead, what I was concerned with was how much heat the lamp put out, which is a different thing. For example, the flame of a match has a much higher temperature than a hot-water radiator; but radiators can heat your house far better because they deliver much more heat than the match. (And they don't burn out nearly as quickly as the match!)
Almost all of the electrical energy put into an incandescent lamp is turned into heat. The fraction that emerges as light is usually absorbed by the surroundings--and there are a lot of surroundings inside a turnout lantern--and turned back into heat too. Even the red and green filters absorb most of the white light that hits them. Only the tiniest fraction emerges from the lantern; so it is easy to calculate the (almost) total heat from the lamp simply by calculating the electrical power going into it. It is that heat that causes the problem of melting the plastic lantern. So that's the sense in which I said that the 53 runs cooler than the 1445.
The temperature of the filament is another matter. It, along with the dimensions of the filament, determines how long, on the average, the filament will last. That's not easy to calculate. But fortunately the result that we're interested in, the lifetime, is often specified directly.
Bob Nelson
Bob,
I am missing something here. You say that the #53 will run cooler; but the listed hours are less than the 1445. I thought that running cooler increases the life.
Hello: re; madison cars. When i remove the lites (14v) no noise. Lionel tech says not supposed to be. They are going to send me new lite bulbs,see what happens. Thanks for quick reply. Circuit board has three thing on it, a capacitor, a diode and a voltage regulater. later.
Think good thoughts, do good deeds!
traindood Now here is the crazy part. The lower the voltage I apply, the worse the buzzing. The higher the voltage, 'till max at 17.5 volts, noise is almost gone. If I run in command, no problemo, but in conventional really annoying. Any ideas to solve this? All the cars have the same symtoms. Thanks.
traindood...when I power up a weird buzzing noise appears to be coming from the 6 wheel trucks...
The culprit is the transformer, not the cars.
Here are several higher-voltage lamps, compared to the 1445 in terms of the current they draw or power they consume at the same voltage
1450, 24 volts, .20
265, 28 volts, .42
356, 28 volts, .89
You can just use a 24 volt bulb to accomplish the same thing as the diode, and no modification to the switch. Either will work.
runtime, check the switch for mechanical operation by turning the lantern with the power off. Compare how it feels to another switch that is working OK. If the switch feels at all rough or the friction seems high, you have a mechanical problem. I assume you have soldered all the connections and cleaned everything. This kind of problem is going to be difficult to diagnose with a meter.
Bruce Baker
My motivation for using the diodes in series with the lamps is simplicity and cost. The lamps were already in the switches, and the diodes cost about 20 cents at Skycraft in Winter Park, Florida. There is a discussion of bulb life in this thread, and essentially, the bulb life goes to infinity with the diode. The lamps run cool enough that you can touch them when they are on. Also, I think the lanterns look much more realistic with the bulbs at a lower light level.
Taranwanderer Yes, I meant 1445. It was late, I think.... Now, another question for Bruce--if you're planning on using the CV plug to deliver a robust 14-18 volts (even 20) to the solenoid for better operation, would it make sense to just unsolder the lantern's supply wire from the solder lug on the base of the CV pin and resolder it onto the solder lug on the base of the spring clip so that the lantern gets track voltage (which is presumably lower) but the solenoid still gets the higher voltage? That seems simpler than doing the diode solution, yes?
Yes, I meant 1445. It was late, I think....
Now, another question for Bruce--if you're planning on using the CV plug to deliver a robust 14-18 volts (even 20) to the solenoid for better operation, would it make sense to just unsolder the lantern's supply wire from the solder lug on the base of the CV pin and resolder it onto the solder lug on the base of the spring clip so that the lantern gets track voltage (which is presumably lower) but the solenoid still gets the higher voltage? That seems simpler than doing the diode solution, yes?
Bruce, I put a spot of glue on the contacts if they're swiveling around too freely, holds them in the correct alignment.
John, it's not as simple as just using a higher voltage rating. You need to consider the current rating too. The counterexample that I see over and over is a recommendation to replace a 53 by a 1445, on the strength of the 1445's being rated at 18 volts, compared to the 53's 14.4 volts. Nevertheless, the 1445 draws more current than the 53 when run at the same voltage, no matter what that voltage is, and consequently is hotter.
The 1445 is also rated at 14.4 volts and 135 milliamperes, compared to the 120 milliamperes of the 53. The ratio of the currents does not change with voltage; so the 1445 will draw 12.5 percent more at any voltage, compared to the 53 at the same voltage, and therefore consume 12.5 percent more power.
(Taranwanderer, did you mean 1445 rather than 1443?)
servoguy I don't think 14 volts is high enough to get good operation. I run mine at 20 volts from the fixed voltage tap on a KW. After 1.5 years of operation, I don' t see any contact erosion, and the way I wire the switches, some of the switches operate many times as the train makes a complete pass around the layout. I have restored 86 022 switches and have not seen any contact erosion on any of them. Bruce Baker
I don't think 14 volts is high enough to get good operation. I run mine at 20 volts from the fixed voltage tap on a KW. After 1.5 years of operation, I don' t see any contact erosion, and the way I wire the switches, some of the switches operate many times as the train makes a complete pass around the layout. I have restored 86 022 switches and have not seen any contact erosion on any of them.
You can also solve the issue of the bulb getting hot by using 24 volt bulbs, though they'll obviously consume more power than the LED.
This is such an awesome thread, it needs to be "bumped" BTT every once in a while...
OK, so I'm once again in 022 purchase and repair mode, this time for our club's new PW layout (I mean, as new as PW can be, I guess.) I just noticed that you can now get the 1443/53 type bulb in a LED style. Has anyone tried using one of these LED bulbs in an 022? If it physically fits under the rotating hood without any clearance issues, it would solve the "bulb getting too hot and having to wire in a diode to keep the bulb from melting the hood" problem...wouldn't it? Thoughts?
Also, check the contact pressure of the sliding contacts.
As long as you're measuring sine-wave voltages, such as the 1033 puts out, your meter should be okay. (It measures the average of the absolute value of the instantaneous voltage, which is proportional to RMS voltage.)
Two suggestions: See whether the turnout is sluggish in both directions, or just one. The latter would suggest something wrong with one solenoid coil.
Try throwing the turnout by moving the slug inside the solenoid by hand, to compare the force needed for the bad turnout compared with the good one. That could indicate whether the problem is mechanical or electrical.
OK, I bought a meter at Lowes.
Track voltage is 20V, as my transformer claims.
Switch voltage from my dedicated 1033 Transformer is about 14.3V - not the advertised 16V.
I am using a $35 digital multi meter from Lowes, which, to my dismay, does not do RMS but rather averages something or other. The packaging did not reveal that difference vs the $57. version from the same company. Maybe it doesn't matter?
Anyway, I am trying to trouble-shoot the sluggish action on one of my two 711 turnouts - the other one has good action. As stated, I have lubed with grease all sliding contact points that do not need to make electrical contact. All wire attachments are soldered. I don't know if 711's originally had all wire connections soldered, but my dad had purchased these and had them working in my childhood layout for many years. He was pretty good with electerical stuff, in circa 50's mode, but he may have used higher voltages.
Bottom line question is: how do I determine why this switch is still sluggish @ 14V. Is is electrical, if so, how do I trace the problem with my newly purchased meter, or could it still be mechanical friction - perhaps in the solenoid? (I reread all the earlier parts of this thread, but some does not seem to apply to a 711, and some just is not clear enough to me to act upon).
Thanks for any help, (and anxious to get my layout back together soon),
runtime
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