OH BRIAN!!! (2)

[FJ and G]

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[Anonymous]

Gee, Dave, it's a relief to hear that you are still employed. You hermit life sounds pretty good especially if you have a particularly stressful life. Instead of powering your trains with a water wheel why not take up live steam?

Barefoot and wild or a drawing room sophisticate, a woman is still a woman, and my late mother told me that women want to be in control. Give your dream a year or two and you will have no time for your trains because that barefooted gal will be sitting comfortably in your cabin while you are out plowing fields, hunting coons etc, chopping wood and saying "yes, dear" twenty times a day. Odd-d

[Big_Boy_4005]

No Odd-d, I'M THE HERMIT!!!! That's kind of how this whole thing got started, remember? Part of what I was originally trying to do was explain why I am on line so much. Well, one thing lead to another, and here we are.

All much wiser for the experience.

[swg]

[Anonymous]

I learned the hard way that Jobs are never secure... only people are or can be by taking control of their lives

You take control by constantly re-inventing who you are and what you can do. As soon as you feel you have job security... look around it's time to change again.

A while ago before I started Law School, we were told we could not have children. My decision to change careers was based partly on that medical condition as well the job insecurities as an engineer.

To my surprise, life changed again and my son was born. After plowing thru four years of school and five years at someone else's law firm, I started my own law firm with another partner from the first firm.

During the last three years, growing the firm, I feel that I can earn however much time I want to put into this. In other words I control a lot more of my life. I’m not suggesting at all that this is the right course for anyone else. I’m just saying you need to take steps to control your future and not be dependant on the stupidity of others making decisions that affect you.

It doesn't matter what line of work you're in or not in just keep thinking and moving toward the goal of being the one making the right choices for you.

Alan

[FJ and G]

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[Anonymous]

Being a computer programmer, an issue of concern for me these days is the trend to outsource jobs like mine to India, where the programmers make $5 an hour. My salary costs my firm a LOT more than that.

I took an adult education class last fall called "Basic Cabinet Making." I need to go back & take the follow up course, "Advanced Cabinet Making," but I'm doing a bunch of projects at home as time & money permits. I figure that this country will always have need of guys who can work wood into book cases & such for the rich folks that are getting richer laying the rest of us off.

Besides, it's work that I enjoy.

Tony

[cnw1995]

Dave, you have a lot of good advice. I'm told these days to try to stick close to the customer/client - if I'm part of the face-to-face team, I'm much harder to outsource...

[FJ and G]

Doug,

A tidbit of interesting info. A good percentage of tax forms are outsourced to India for preparation; you will never know it, however. This info was mentioned on NPR radio a few weeks ago when they discussed the pros and cons of outsourcing. They also mentioned that Japan outsources auto stuff to this country.

I've gotta believe, however, that we are probably more on the jobs lost side of the equation.

dav

[cnw1995]

I saw another interesting metric on China's growth (in the Economist mag) that posits they've lost approximately 27 million manufacturing jobs within the past four years themselves. A similiar metric (from Harper's magazine that pulled it from DoL info) presumed that most (83%) American jobs lost in the recent (current?) recession were not reproduced or outsourced overseas but truly lost to automation, changed biz practices, loss of business, and an interesting host of other reasons.

[goodness]

Brian,

I am part of the "jobless recovery" myself for the past year. We have to keep trying...what else can we do? Depression is a common experience for about 25% of the population, and although it is often started by life situations, it is basically a chemical imbalance in the brain. Medications can help restore the amorphans that keep us up rather than down. Never make a long term, irreversable decision when you are depressed. Talk with your doctor or a Psychotherapist if you are depressed. I look at it like being drunk...your brain is not functioning properly when you are depressed so you can not make good decisions.

The death of my younger brother, my father and my grand mother all within 6 months, and the heart attack of my mother put me in a tail spin. I also ended up divorcing my wife for painful reasons. What keeps me going is that I look for the postitive things in my life rather than focusing on the negative. What I have found is that I have many very good friends who help me like I have helped them in the past.

With over 50% of all marages ending in divorce, perhaps you should rethink your desire to "get married". I would never do it again and believe it is an institution that is no longer viable in todays world. There are many ways to have satisfying relationships without marrage. Plus there are thousands of children who effectively have no parants. I am the "serogate" (SP) father to about 6 of my son's friends. Their divorced fathers: one lives in Texas, one only calls his son once a year on his birthday, one lives 50 miles away while his mon lives with the boyfriend, and two of the boys have never mentioned their fathers.

Do not get stuck thinking one way that ends up making you miserable... there are alternative ways to live and enjoy yourself and help and relate to others.

When I see a vet with no legs, or an elderly person in a nursing home...there is a person with real problems. Do not sweat the small stuff...and it is all small stuff.

Sorry for the soap box but this has helped me, maybe some of it will help you.

Paul Goodness

[Anonymous]

Paul:

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm glad you try to keep a positive attitude about life. It is sometimes too easy to be beaten down by the troubles in our life.

I'd like to point out a couple of things. First off, the divorce rate is not really as high as the often mis-quoted statistics make it seem. As I understand the statistics, in any given year, the number of divorces is equal to one half the number of marriages that occur in the same year. The people getting divorced that year were not all married in the year the divorce occurred. In actuality, the number of married couples is increasing.

My wife & I have a good marriage. It's not perfect, but what is in this world? All in all, I'd rather be married than single, especially since I've put on so much weight the single girls don't even notice me any more. I think the determining factor as to whether a marriage will work or not is the people in the marriage & how well suited they are to each other.

I'm not trying to change your mind about marriage, just stating my point of view.

It's good that you're taking the time to be a surrogate for your son's friends with absentee dads. Personally, while there are times I'd like to be away from my kids, I can't understand any one who wouldn't want to spend time with their children. I simply can't imagine my life without my daughter & son.

Tony

[FJ and G]

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[FJ and G]

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[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Hey, lonely hearts club dudes; try bidding on this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4146756343

Thanks NO, Dave, I think my ex's is still in MY closet. OY!!![:0][:p][;)][banghead][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][sigh]

By the way did you see the arms on that "chick" in the auction photo.[swg]

[FJ and G]

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[Anonymous]

Dave:

Regarding the moral of the story, I'm gonna quote the Cowardly Lion in the Wizard of Oz:

Ain't it the truth! Ain't it the truth!

Tony

[Big_Boy_4005]

Very good guys, I just hope our friend Brian is reading all of this and is at least finding humor, and perhaps even some good advice. Earlier I said "be careful what you wish for" especially when it comes to women. My problem is I did what Gawain did and let her choose, except she decided to be a witch, and on top of it blame ME.[swg]

[Anonymous]

I haven't been following too closely here. Where IS Brian? Has he weighed in yet?

[ChiefEagles]

Got email last night and he is around. Job hunting and etc.

[Anonymous]

Dave-- Most of what ever I have learned about women I learned from my mother. My dad was too stand offi***o even answer questions. The rest I learned from my aerobics classmates, especially things my mother never told me. Maybe you should take up aerobics class....the scenery is great and the exercise probably wouldn't hurt you either. Odd-d

[Anonymous]

Brian:
Enjoy all your posts, great skill with words, outstanding technical knowledge,
flowing rhetoric, think you should put your skills to work......how about Writing,
or even editing.

all the best.

Geo.

[nblum]

In my experience women are pretty much like men, want mostly the same basic things, except they actually communicate about those things. Men are socialized not to communicate their emotions or thoughts. Women actually want to talk about life and its ups and downs. They want to be appreciated and paid attention to and respected, just like the rest of us :). You've got to be willing to listen to the other person and give them the ability to be who they want to be, and vice versa. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time, it ain't going to happen, at least once the first rough patch occurs. End of sermon. :)

[MikeSanta]

I was single until I was 45, then I landed the Babydoll and we live happily ever after. Next time a chick at a train show says how come you ain't married, ask her if she knows any single women. That reminds her that the WOMAN has to take a little responsibility in the deal, also. And one point of the trains is something to do while you're waiting on YOUR babydoll!

[goodness]

vitabile,

Having gone through the divorce process (it is a business you know) I can say that often it is not the fathers that do not want to see their children. The courts almost always award physical custody to the mother because there is a "maternal presumption" that a mother is a better parent than a father. Fathers become mearly financial slaves to the parent that has physical control of the children. I have met one guy who told me his mother spent the "child support" checks his father sent on her heroin habbit and he had to shoplift food from the 7-11 so he and his sister could eat. There are some women who are so viscious they use the children as wepons, and it is not unusual to hear children refered to as "leverage". Traditionally men are supposed to take it and "tough it out" tape up the body wounds and broken spirits and "go back in the game" like a "man". Truth is some guys can't take it. Their kids are told 24-7 that their fathers are "bums", and after a while the kids believe it. If you go into the family law area of your courthouse you will see posters of "deadbeat dads". The reason there are few if any "deadbeat moms" is that since mothers get custody, they do not have to PAY support, they just GET the support, and because the court system is buryed in cases, there is no way they can check how that support money is spent. It is just "assumed" it is spent "for the benifit of the children". Between the phisical, emotional, and financial impact on these fathers, some of them just "bolt" because they are not allowed to be good fathers and they can not take the pain. I have a great deal of empathy for some of my son's friend's dads. There but for the grace of god go I. I consider myself extreemly lucky that I have been able to maintaine a positive and nurturing relationship with my children dispite the best efforts of my X. But I also realize, my children were old enough to remember who read them their bed time stories at night, who gave them their baths, took them to the doctor, and was involved in their schooling. Not all fathers are saints, but let me assure you that not all mothers are saints either. What is important is that all men should do their best to mentor the children and young people that surround them. It takes a community to raise a child, and men are an important part of that community. Each child is important.

You are correct that it requires two people working together to make a marrage work. Unfortunately you never realy know if your spouce is really working with you or against you untill it is too late. The expression "the spouce is allways the last to know" developed for a reason.

I am sure there are many couples who do make a go of marrage as an institution, They support one another, nurture one another, and make each other's lives more complete and enjoyable. I am happy for those people.

What I do believe is that marrage is not for everyone. And there are alternatives that can be positive and rewarding. We should not close our eyes to these alternatives while blindly believing "finding the right one" and "marrying" will garantee happyness. I could not go through the physical, emotional and financial disaster of another marrage and divorce. I will be lucky if I can recover from just one.

Right now, aside from the financial pressures, LIFE IS GOOD for me. I am much happier and self fullfilled than I ever was when I was married. What I now know is that my X should never have married me because she had incompatable morals and ethics than I had. I made the mistake of not checking out this before I married her. People also change, which may have been the case. YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW. It is a crap shoot that can really rip you up. There is no reason you can not have relationships with out the "marrage" expectations.

Toy trains, lots of tropical plants, a fi***ank, the sun outside, have all hepled me rebuild. Friends, family, and getting out of yourself make you stronger. If you build on what you have rather than ruminate over what you doen't have, you feel better. Exploring new options is a positive way to deal with negative changes. The anti-depressants help too!

Paul Goodness

[brianel027]

Well first off... yep Elliot I'm reading and laughing too. Thanks Dave for the bedtime....ooops.... traintime story. It has a lot of truth in it.

And thanks to Bergie and the CTT gang for letting this thread have life. No, not exactly on trains is it? But for me it shows that not all of us train guys are just shallow guys with only collectabilty on their minds.

The whole reason I got back into the trains was due to a girlfriend's son. The woman was (as David mentioned) a big control freak. And I was struggling to find something I could do with her kid that she wouldn't veto (since in our "congressinal" house, she had both votes, plus veto power). And to my surprise she liked the train idea. I bought the kid a Lionel set and thought she'd go in on half with me. Her constant sleeping around put a end to the relationship, and I wound up with a new train set... that's where it re-began for me.

I've always found it funny how I'm one of those guys who can communicate and talk, who gets along extrordinarily well with children, who is sensitive... this is why I think married women make these comments to me. BUT it's a whole different game when you're still single. Single women (and men) aren't thinking about this stuff when dating. And the brain organ is not doing most of the real "thinking" at this point in most folks lives... people realize this later when the brain comes back from vacation. Ooopps. Hence the common response when the brain starts working again: "Oh God, what on earth have I done????!"

Paul G, I appreciate your thoughtful responses. Yes it is truly a jobless recovery out there. Unemployments rates are higher almost everywhere than they are being reported to be. Here the official numbers are 9-10%. But talk to folks who deal with this everyday like at the employment office or social services and you hear numbers around 25-30%. I also appreciate your insights on dads and kids. I'm kind of a Mr. Wilson from Dennis the Menace, or Mr. Greenjeans from Capt'n. Kangaroo... kids just like me. They probably pick up on the fact that I view childhood as a very speical time that every single kid should have. I have a lot of patience with kids and keep the language always on a kind and constuctive level. No kid wants to be yelled at all the time or called hurtful four-letter names... I know this one all too well.

Of course, today, I also get the snarls and doubletakes like "oooh, potential child molestor." Sad thing, the world we live in today.

Last night there was a thing on ABC (no don't have cable... I'm lucky to get 3 channels without it) about cheating in college and highschool. In one class they showed, 70% of the students cheated on their exams. In talking to college students, they justified their cheating by saying this is what businessmen, politicians and lawyers do all the time and they become successful. And I ask myself, "This is what employers want? A college educated crook with no moral values or respect for a honest days work with honest values??"

Yeah, this may be a great time for trains, but as for everything else - I for one believe I was born at the wrong time. But then again, when in human history was there ever a "right time?" Well, gotta run....

[FJ and G]

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[Anonymous]

Brianel----I spent 8 1/2 years as a caseworker in a welfare agency office. Much of my time was spent interviewing women, at least 2/3 of my caseload were women. Whenever I would get a newly divorced woman (by law she had to declare amount of child support and if she also wanted AFDC and medicaid she had to sign over to the state the right to sue for and collect support) I would always advise her that however she might really feel about her ex she should always build him up to his kids and encourage them to maintain a good relationship with him or she could watch as support got less and less. I asked her how she thought a man might feel if his kids refused to go out with him when he came to see them. I pointed out that if visits became an ordeal for the man he might not want to pay support for people who hate him. Most divorced people are pretty nice people who should not have been married to each other.

Dave----This might sound rough and unfeeling, but it's just my old social work training coming to the fore. It is great that you had the chance to love such a beautiful woman as you described in your poem, BUT as you carry that torch down through the years you seem to lose sight of the fact (as implied in your poem) SHE put you aside. So now it is thirty years later....do you think she is pining away for you? Do you think she dwells on those memories you play over and over in your mind? And the women that came after her.....did you try to make them replace her? Did you measure them up against an idealized memory of something that did not work out either? Did the other women give up in disgust because they could not make mere flesh and blood compete with a ghost? Did you accept the later women for who they were instead of who they weren't? ARE YOU REVELLING IN SELF PITY? ARE YOU JUST HURTING YOURSELF? I lost a loved and cherished young woman friend to death...and I still grieve after five years, but it is over and we'll meet again in eternity. Sorry if I seem heartless , cruel or disrespectful, but SOMEBODY needed to put some ice in your enema. You need to get over it. In June we will celebrate our 39th wedding anniversary. Odd-d

[Anonymous]

David:

Very nice poem. It brought a tear to my eye.

My first real true love ripped my heart out, too. She had a substance abuse problem and there was nothing I could do about it. It was several years before I got over it & moved on. Now, it's long over & I'm happy.

There was one other girl that I was in love with & it didn't work out that I think of occasionally, but, over all, I'm very happy.

Paul Goodness:

I have to say I agree with everything you've said. Did you know that at the end of the 19th century / beginning of the 20th, custody of children was routinely given to the father because it was presumed that the mother had no job & so couldn't afford to raise the kids? Shows you how far we've come.

There are many injustices in the world. We (meaning society) need to do something about them. But how do you get bitter, manipulative people to play nice?

Regarding "finding the right one" and "marrying brings happiness," the second only works if you're happy to begin with, you've found someoone who is genuinely compatible morally, ethically, as well as in the other usual ways, and you haven't gotten home from the honeymoon yet. I learned the hard way a long time ago that happiness comes from inside, not from anything outside. Yes, a loved one an make you feel happy, but true happiness--that just doesn't come from anything outside.

I agree that marriage is not for everyone. Just as jobs like police work, firefighter, and sanitation worker aren't for everyone. Isn't it funny that you have to have a license to practice medicine, law, and get married, but any fool can have a kid?

Good luck to you & keep up the good work with the kids.

Tony

[FJ and G]

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[Anonymous]

David:

Country songs seem to be about people getting their hearts broken or about trucks. Or telling off the boss.

Give me classic rock any day [:D][;)]

Tony