OH BRIAN!!! (2)

[FJ and G]

This thread has taken a life of its own. Enough material for toy train psychotherapy, methinks.

[Pennvalley]

QUOTE: Country songs seem to be about people getting their hearts broken or about trucks. Or telling off the boss.

Hear about the guy that quit listening to CW?
He got his car back, his wife back and his house back.[:D]

I listen to it all, from classical to hard rock.

Brian, I've been laid off for some time now. NO one hires you when you pass 60.

[Anonymous]

Case in (Jack's) point: I met my wife at a church function.

I couldn't believe it when it happened, but yes, I did in fact meet my wife at a church function. You never know.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Join a church and get involved. You'll meet a lot of fine women there.

[Anonymous]

Odd-d:

Hey, I'm married with two kids. I'm not lookin' for love, I got it.

Now, it's Dave & Brian we gotta fix up

Tony

[Anonymous]

You guys are breaking my heart! This is like fishing in a bucket. You guys should be on some forum that is likely to be read by women looking for men. While this forum is open to all, the number of unattached women seeking men reading this is probably not very high. Are you guys maybe substituting trains for your search for love and fulfillment? Get out of your basements and out from behind these keyboards! Go where the girls are....join a health club; the best looking ladies have to really work at looking good---get in there and work with them. Even an old married man can make nice honorable friends with exquisitely pretty and well educated charming ladies. If I were single......who knows? If you want a friend be a friend. Give support and friendship and it will be returned manyfold. Old, fat aerobic Odd-d

[Anonymous]

David:

I know that song. When I was still single, there was a Queen song I used to love (still do): "Somebody to Love." I love the harmony -- did you know that Freddie Mercury did all the harmony on their songs himself with a multi-track recorder? He sang all the different parts one at a time & when you put it together, well, it's awe inspiring.

Can anybody find me somebody to love?

Each morning I get up I die a little
Can barely stand on my feet
Take a look at yourself
in the mirror and cry,
Lord, what you do to me, Daniel

I've spent all my years in believing you
But I just can' t get no relief, Lord
Somebody, ooo somebody
Can anybody find me somebody to love?

I work hard (He works hard)
Every day of my life
I work till I ache my bones
At the end (at the end of the day )
I take home my hard earned pay

I go down on my knees & I praise the Lord
'Til the tears run down from my eyes, Lord
Somebody, ooo somebody
Can anybody find me somebody to love?

(He works hard) Everyday (everyday)
I try and I try and I try
But everybody wants to put me down
They say, I'm goin' crazy
There's a fire goin' in my brain
He's got no common sense
He's got nobody left to believe

<Guitar solo>

Lord, ooo somebody, ooo somebody, please
Anybody find me somebody to love?
(Can anybody find me someone to love?)

Feel like I've no rhythm, I just keep losin' my beat
(You just keep losin' and losin')
I'm all right I'm all right (He's all right), Daniel
I just gotta get outta this prison cell
One day I'm gonna be free, Lord

Find me somebody to love
Find me somebody to love
Find me somebody to love
Find me somebody to love
Find me somebody to love

Somebody, somebody, somebody
Find me somebody to love

Anybody find me somebody to love?

Here's the interesting thing about Freddie Mercury. He, too, couldn't find anyone to share his life with. He became bisexual because he figured it would increase his odds of finding that special someone. This decisioni is probably what ultimately led to his contracting HIV & his untimely death. What a talen we lost that day.

Tony

[FJ and G]

Tony,

Here's one of my favorite tunes; words are actually hopeful and optimistic, but also gives me sad but nostalgic memories. Led Zeppelin, of course. Think it's called Goin to California or something:

Spent my days with a woman unkind, Smoked my stuff and drank all my wine.
Made up my mind to make a new start, Going To California with an aching in my heart.
Someone told me there's a girl out there with love in her eyes and flowers in her hair.
Took my chances on a big jet plane, never let them tell you that they're all the same.
The sea was red and the sky was grey, wondered how tomorrow could ever follow today.
The mountains and the canyons started to tremble and shake
as the children of the sun began to awake.

Seems that the wrath of the Gods
Got a punch on the nose and it started to flow;
I think I might be sinking.
Throw me a line if I reach it in time
I'll meet you up there where the path
Runs straight and high.

To find a queen without a king,
They say she plays guitar and cries and sings... la la la
Ride a white mare in the footsteps of dawn
Tryin' to find a woman who's never, never, never been born.
Standing on a hill in my mountain of dreams,
Telling myself it's not as hard, hard, hard as it seems.

[Anonymous]

David:

Country songs seem to be about people getting their hearts broken or about trucks. Or telling off the boss.

Give me classic rock any day [:D][;)]

Tony

[FJ and G]

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[Anonymous]

David:

Very nice poem. It brought a tear to my eye.

My first real true love ripped my heart out, too. She had a substance abuse problem and there was nothing I could do about it. It was several years before I got over it & moved on. Now, it's long over & I'm happy.

There was one other girl that I was in love with & it didn't work out that I think of occasionally, but, over all, I'm very happy.

Paul Goodness:

I have to say I agree with everything you've said. Did you know that at the end of the 19th century / beginning of the 20th, custody of children was routinely given to the father because it was presumed that the mother had no job & so couldn't afford to raise the kids? Shows you how far we've come.

There are many injustices in the world. We (meaning society) need to do something about them. But how do you get bitter, manipulative people to play nice?

Regarding "finding the right one" and "marrying brings happiness," the second only works if you're happy to begin with, you've found someoone who is genuinely compatible morally, ethically, as well as in the other usual ways, and you haven't gotten home from the honeymoon yet. I learned the hard way a long time ago that happiness comes from inside, not from anything outside. Yes, a loved one an make you feel happy, but true happiness--that just doesn't come from anything outside.

I agree that marriage is not for everyone. Just as jobs like police work, firefighter, and sanitation worker aren't for everyone. Isn't it funny that you have to have a license to practice medicine, law, and get married, but any fool can have a kid?

Good luck to you & keep up the good work with the kids.

Tony

[Anonymous]

Brianel----I spent 8 1/2 years as a caseworker in a welfare agency office. Much of my time was spent interviewing women, at least 2/3 of my caseload were women. Whenever I would get a newly divorced woman (by law she had to declare amount of child support and if she also wanted AFDC and medicaid she had to sign over to the state the right to sue for and collect support) I would always advise her that however she might really feel about her ex she should always build him up to his kids and encourage them to maintain a good relationship with him or she could watch as support got less and less. I asked her how she thought a man might feel if his kids refused to go out with him when he came to see them. I pointed out that if visits became an ordeal for the man he might not want to pay support for people who hate him. Most divorced people are pretty nice people who should not have been married to each other.

Dave----This might sound rough and unfeeling, but it's just my old social work training coming to the fore. It is great that you had the chance to love such a beautiful woman as you described in your poem, BUT as you carry that torch down through the years you seem to lose sight of the fact (as implied in your poem) SHE put you aside. So now it is thirty years later....do you think she is pining away for you? Do you think she dwells on those memories you play over and over in your mind? And the women that came after her.....did you try to make them replace her? Did you measure them up against an idealized memory of something that did not work out either? Did the other women give up in disgust because they could not make mere flesh and blood compete with a ghost? Did you accept the later women for who they were instead of who they weren't? ARE YOU REVELLING IN SELF PITY? ARE YOU JUST HURTING YOURSELF? I lost a loved and cherished young woman friend to death...and I still grieve after five years, but it is over and we'll meet again in eternity. Sorry if I seem heartless , cruel or disrespectful, but SOMEBODY needed to put some ice in your enema. You need to get over it. In June we will celebrate our 39th wedding anniversary. Odd-d

[FJ and G]

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[brianel027]

Well first off... yep Elliot I'm reading and laughing too. Thanks Dave for the bedtime....ooops.... traintime story. It has a lot of truth in it.

And thanks to Bergie and the CTT gang for letting this thread have life. No, not exactly on trains is it? But for me it shows that not all of us train guys are just shallow guys with only collectabilty on their minds.

The whole reason I got back into the trains was due to a girlfriend's son. The woman was (as David mentioned) a big control freak. And I was struggling to find something I could do with her kid that she wouldn't veto (since in our "congressinal" house, she had both votes, plus veto power). And to my surprise she liked the train idea. I bought the kid a Lionel set and thought she'd go in on half with me. Her constant sleeping around put a end to the relationship, and I wound up with a new train set... that's where it re-began for me.

I've always found it funny how I'm one of those guys who can communicate and talk, who gets along extrordinarily well with children, who is sensitive... this is why I think married women make these comments to me. BUT it's a whole different game when you're still single. Single women (and men) aren't thinking about this stuff when dating. And the brain organ is not doing most of the real "thinking" at this point in most folks lives... people realize this later when the brain comes back from vacation. Ooopps. Hence the common response when the brain starts working again: "Oh God, what on earth have I done????!"

Paul G, I appreciate your thoughtful responses. Yes it is truly a jobless recovery out there. Unemployments rates are higher almost everywhere than they are being reported to be. Here the official numbers are 9-10%. But talk to folks who deal with this everyday like at the employment office or social services and you hear numbers around 25-30%. I also appreciate your insights on dads and kids. I'm kind of a Mr. Wilson from Dennis the Menace, or Mr. Greenjeans from Capt'n. Kangaroo... kids just like me. They probably pick up on the fact that I view childhood as a very speical time that every single kid should have. I have a lot of patience with kids and keep the language always on a kind and constuctive level. No kid wants to be yelled at all the time or called hurtful four-letter names... I know this one all too well.

Of course, today, I also get the snarls and doubletakes like "oooh, potential child molestor." Sad thing, the world we live in today.

Last night there was a thing on ABC (no don't have cable... I'm lucky to get 3 channels without it) about cheating in college and highschool. In one class they showed, 70% of the students cheated on their exams. In talking to college students, they justified their cheating by saying this is what businessmen, politicians and lawyers do all the time and they become successful. And I ask myself, "This is what employers want? A college educated crook with no moral values or respect for a honest days work with honest values??"

Yeah, this may be a great time for trains, but as for everything else - I for one believe I was born at the wrong time. But then again, when in human history was there ever a "right time?" Well, gotta run....

[goodness]

vitabile,

Having gone through the divorce process (it is a business you know) I can say that often it is not the fathers that do not want to see their children. The courts almost always award physical custody to the mother because there is a "maternal presumption" that a mother is a better parent than a father. Fathers become mearly financial slaves to the parent that has physical control of the children. I have met one guy who told me his mother spent the "child support" checks his father sent on her heroin habbit and he had to shoplift food from the 7-11 so he and his sister could eat. There are some women who are so viscious they use the children as wepons, and it is not unusual to hear children refered to as "leverage". Traditionally men are supposed to take it and "tough it out" tape up the body wounds and broken spirits and "go back in the game" like a "man". Truth is some guys can't take it. Their kids are told 24-7 that their fathers are "bums", and after a while the kids believe it. If you go into the family law area of your courthouse you will see posters of "deadbeat dads". The reason there are few if any "deadbeat moms" is that since mothers get custody, they do not have to PAY support, they just GET the support, and because the court system is buryed in cases, there is no way they can check how that support money is spent. It is just "assumed" it is spent "for the benifit of the children". Between the phisical, emotional, and financial impact on these fathers, some of them just "bolt" because they are not allowed to be good fathers and they can not take the pain. I have a great deal of empathy for some of my son's friend's dads. There but for the grace of god go I. I consider myself extreemly lucky that I have been able to maintaine a positive and nurturing relationship with my children dispite the best efforts of my X. But I also realize, my children were old enough to remember who read them their bed time stories at night, who gave them their baths, took them to the doctor, and was involved in their schooling. Not all fathers are saints, but let me assure you that not all mothers are saints either. What is important is that all men should do their best to mentor the children and young people that surround them. It takes a community to raise a child, and men are an important part of that community. Each child is important.

You are correct that it requires two people working together to make a marrage work. Unfortunately you never realy know if your spouce is really working with you or against you untill it is too late. The expression "the spouce is allways the last to know" developed for a reason.

I am sure there are many couples who do make a go of marrage as an institution, They support one another, nurture one another, and make each other's lives more complete and enjoyable. I am happy for those people.

What I do believe is that marrage is not for everyone. And there are alternatives that can be positive and rewarding. We should not close our eyes to these alternatives while blindly believing "finding the right one" and "marrying" will garantee happyness. I could not go through the physical, emotional and financial disaster of another marrage and divorce. I will be lucky if I can recover from just one.

Right now, aside from the financial pressures, LIFE IS GOOD for me. I am much happier and self fullfilled than I ever was when I was married. What I now know is that my X should never have married me because she had incompatable morals and ethics than I had. I made the mistake of not checking out this before I married her. People also change, which may have been the case. YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW. It is a crap shoot that can really rip you up. There is no reason you can not have relationships with out the "marrage" expectations.

Toy trains, lots of tropical plants, a fi***ank, the sun outside, have all hepled me rebuild. Friends, family, and getting out of yourself make you stronger. If you build on what you have rather than ruminate over what you doen't have, you feel better. Exploring new options is a positive way to deal with negative changes. The anti-depressants help too!

Paul Goodness

[MikeSanta]

I was single until I was 45, then I landed the Babydoll and we live happily ever after. Next time a chick at a train show says how come you ain't married, ask her if she knows any single women. That reminds her that the WOMAN has to take a little responsibility in the deal, also. And one point of the trains is something to do while you're waiting on YOUR babydoll!

[nblum]

In my experience women are pretty much like men, want mostly the same basic things, except they actually communicate about those things. Men are socialized not to communicate their emotions or thoughts. Women actually want to talk about life and its ups and downs. They want to be appreciated and paid attention to and respected, just like the rest of us :). You've got to be willing to listen to the other person and give them the ability to be who they want to be, and vice versa. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time, it ain't going to happen, at least once the first rough patch occurs. End of sermon. :)

[Anonymous]

Brian:
Enjoy all your posts, great skill with words, outstanding technical knowledge,
flowing rhetoric, think you should put your skills to work......how about Writing,
or even editing.

all the best.

Geo.

[Anonymous]

Dave-- Most of what ever I have learned about women I learned from my mother. My dad was too stand offi***o even answer questions. The rest I learned from my aerobics classmates, especially things my mother never told me. Maybe you should take up aerobics class....the scenery is great and the exercise probably wouldn't hurt you either. Odd-d

[ChiefEagles]

Got email last night and he is around. Job hunting and etc.

[Anonymous]

I haven't been following too closely here. Where IS Brian? Has he weighed in yet?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Very good guys, I just hope our friend Brian is reading all of this and is at least finding humor, and perhaps even some good advice. Earlier I said "be careful what you wish for" especially when it comes to women. My problem is I did what Gawain did and let her choose, except she decided to be a witch, and on top of it blame ME.[swg]

[Anonymous]

Dave:

Regarding the moral of the story, I'm gonna quote the Cowardly Lion in the Wizard of Oz:

Ain't it the truth! Ain't it the truth!

Tony

[FJ and G]

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[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Hey, lonely hearts club dudes; try bidding on this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4146756343

Thanks NO, Dave, I think my ex's is still in MY closet. OY!!![:0][:p][;)][banghead][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][sigh]

By the way did you see the arms on that "chick" in the auction photo.[swg]

[FJ and G]

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[FJ and G]

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[Anonymous]

Paul:

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm glad you try to keep a positive attitude about life. It is sometimes too easy to be beaten down by the troubles in our life.

I'd like to point out a couple of things. First off, the divorce rate is not really as high as the often mis-quoted statistics make it seem. As I understand the statistics, in any given year, the number of divorces is equal to one half the number of marriages that occur in the same year. The people getting divorced that year were not all married in the year the divorce occurred. In actuality, the number of married couples is increasing.

My wife & I have a good marriage. It's not perfect, but what is in this world? All in all, I'd rather be married than single, especially since I've put on so much weight the single girls don't even notice me any more. I think the determining factor as to whether a marriage will work or not is the people in the marriage & how well suited they are to each other.

I'm not trying to change your mind about marriage, just stating my point of view.

It's good that you're taking the time to be a surrogate for your son's friends with absentee dads. Personally, while there are times I'd like to be away from my kids, I can't understand any one who wouldn't want to spend time with their children. I simply can't imagine my life without my daughter & son.

Tony

[goodness]

Brian,

I am part of the "jobless recovery" myself for the past year. We have to keep trying...what else can we do? Depression is a common experience for about 25% of the population, and although it is often started by life situations, it is basically a chemical imbalance in the brain. Medications can help restore the amorphans that keep us up rather than down. Never make a long term, irreversable decision when you are depressed. Talk with your doctor or a Psychotherapist if you are depressed. I look at it like being drunk...your brain is not functioning properly when you are depressed so you can not make good decisions.

The death of my younger brother, my father and my grand mother all within 6 months, and the heart attack of my mother put me in a tail spin. I also ended up divorcing my wife for painful reasons. What keeps me going is that I look for the postitive things in my life rather than focusing on the negative. What I have found is that I have many very good friends who help me like I have helped them in the past.

With over 50% of all marages ending in divorce, perhaps you should rethink your desire to "get married". I would never do it again and believe it is an institution that is no longer viable in todays world. There are many ways to have satisfying relationships without marrage. Plus there are thousands of children who effectively have no parants. I am the "serogate" (SP) father to about 6 of my son's friends. Their divorced fathers: one lives in Texas, one only calls his son once a year on his birthday, one lives 50 miles away while his mon lives with the boyfriend, and two of the boys have never mentioned their fathers.

Do not get stuck thinking one way that ends up making you miserable... there are alternative ways to live and enjoy yourself and help and relate to others.

When I see a vet with no legs, or an elderly person in a nursing home...there is a person with real problems. Do not sweat the small stuff...and it is all small stuff.

Sorry for the soap box but this has helped me, maybe some of it will help you.

Paul Goodness