1st day with a MTH and I think $$$$ went up in smoke!!!

[3railguy]

Yea, half the fun of the hobby is researching what you want to do. CTT magazine publishes track plans frequently. I find myself spending hours looking at the variety of cars and engines on ebay getting ideas of what I want and trigger the finger now and then. There are great layout spreads in the photo shoot threads on this forum. If you haven't yet, do Lionel and MTH searches on you tube and a ton of layout videos come up and sort of spawn as you watch them. Lots of good track planning books out there too.

[jayres1973]

Yep, John. It's awesome when everything works as it should. I need more track, etc. It's just there's no limit, except for your imagination, of what you can do on a layout. I had ideas, but now I'm lost again. I don't know where to start. So, I'm searching every layout I can find online to get ideas and at the same time trying to double & triple check items that aren't compatible. I'm also wanting to keep the freight cars, buildings, etc. all in the same era, so I've been searching through pictures to see "when & what" was used. For some people, this might be pretty easy. For me though, I'm just starting.

thanks again, Jeremy

[3railguy]

ZPW, which engine do you have? Shutting off squealing brakes for the FP-45 for example is feature 28

Enjoying your new toy, Jeremy?

[jayres1973]

straight out of the MTH Railking Manual, concerning the squeaking brakes:

PROGRAMMING FOR SQUEAKING BRAKE OPERATION ProtoSounds® can be programmed for squeaking brake operation in three different manners; (1)Squeaking brakes can be activated by bell button control, (2)they can be programmed for continuous operation subject to throttle changes or (3)they can be programmed to be turned off. The default setting is (2) Squeaking brakes are in continious operation as described on page 8. To change the default setting, enter RESET and go to Feature 45.

Jeremy

[mpzpw3]

Just read this thread for the first time. Glad things worked out for you! Sounds like the dealer is a pretty good guy, maybe a bit angry right now...

I know it's been said before, but buy yourself a bcr from jandw electronics or from Marty at Ma&Pa junction, both have websites. Put it in, and you're done with the battery issue forever. I've been using them for about 4 years now, and never had a problem.

Also, and this is very important, if you figure out a way to shut off the squealing brake feature, please post how you did it!! Oh, yes, you will eventually want to shut off this wonderful feature. I've been trying for years now, and just when I think I have it off, it comes on again...

[chuck]

Very happy that the dealer made things right.  The only real issues with the PS-1 engines is keeping the battery charged   Please review the owners manual to get familiar with how the PS-1 electronics work regarding reset verses neutral.

BTW When he tested the battery was it under some type of load like a automotive tail light.  NiCads can register full charge with no load and still be stone cold dead.

[3railguy]

Glad to hear it worked out for you. Let us know how it performs.

Sounds like the dealer was using a Lionel TMCC outfit and TPC unit to reset the board and forgot to switch over from command mode. Or accidently punced in a max speed setting somehow. Very easy to do. In command mode, you are putting full voltage to the track (command engines take full voltage from the track and throttle it with a reciever within the engine).

[jayres1973]

TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!! I took the MTH up to the shop. He {the store owner} pulled the battery and it had a good charge. So, he reset the loco and all was good. UNTIL, I asked him if he could reset it to factory settings, which would only take a couple of minutes. Well, he was using some Lionel radio controlled handheld to set it faster, I guess? Well, the Loco was on a piece of 30" fastrack on his work bench. Some how he engaged the loco from neutral to reverse and full steam "away" it went, off the table and about a four foot drop to the floor, .... Needless to say the coupler to the tender was broke, a metal pin inside the couple was rolling across the floor and the loco had some cosmetic damage. After cussing up a storm, he walked to the back, brought out a NEW loco, exactly like the one busted. He put it on the display layout to show me it was good to go, ... and said "here's you a brand new one". After that he was too busy looking up MTH parts in his manual to order.

I think God didn't want me owning that one for some reason. I'm a happy customer now, especially now that the shop owner has to deal with problems from a loco he swore was good. I guess it's just the Irony of the whole thing. I'm a very happy camper now. All is well, and thank you all so very much.

Jeremy

[3railguy]

challenger3980

   I am NOT knocking DCS in any way, but would somebody  Please, Explain to me, what the advantage is that Jeremy is going to get from DCS? His locomotive is a PS1 locomotive, that to my knowledge wont benefit from DCS, why spend more than double what the KW cost, for no benefit that I can see? In the future, IF He were to buy a PS2 locomotive, then DCS would make sense, but even a PS2 locomotive can be run in conventional with the KW, until Jeremy decides wether DCS is a worthwhile investment for him.

Absolutely. The advantage to DCS with PS-1 is minimal and that is you can easily access features such as electro couplers and station sounds with DCS in conventiol mode. However, you spend $275 alone on the DCS controller getting there.. With strictly a KW, accessing these features is not as easy. It takes the right back and fourth motion of the transformer handle to access these features. But one gets the hang of it. However the whistle and bell is what people tend to use most. The KW whistle button along with an additional bell button gives you that. Again, the sine wave of a KW is pure so there is no risk there other than surge and short protection which we covered. QSI designed PS-1 to be used with postwar transformers. There was no Z-4000 or Z-750 when it was designed. Those transformers came later.

f Jeremy wants he can buy a DCS controller and tap it to his KW. People do this with old school ZW's. MTH's intructions clearly state that any commercial transformer is fine as long as it is not rated over 10 amps. MTH recomends a Z-4000 if one buys into a large layout. By that time, you would designate the KW to lights and accessories so you aren't inducing voltage drop on the Z-4000.

So, in a sense, Jeremy got off to a good start and can expand on what he bought. The RK Northern is a smooth running, powerful beast. The sounds are nice. Not as nice as PS-2 but nice enough you don't notice until you get a PS-2 engine.

[3railguy]

...double post...windows freeze....

[challenger3980]

LawsonFarmsRR

Ole Timer

Sirjames ... you hit it right on the head ... but seems you got shot down . Oh well ... we can only advise ..... we did'nt think he got such a GOOD deal ... time will tell won't it .

 

I totally agree with you, Sir James, and Don, as you can see from my posts on this thread.

And I an not so sure Sir James got shot down. I noticed on one post Jeremy said "I'll be buying a MTH DCS as soon as I get the loco repaired or whatever it needs".

I hope he at least checks out one or two other dealers and talks to a few local toy train folks.

Patrick 

   I am NOT knocking DCS in any way, but would somebody  Please, Explain to me, what the advantage is that Jeremy is going to get from DCS? His locomotive is a PS1 locomotive, that to my knowledge wont benefit from DCS, why spend more than double what the KW cost, for no benefit that I can see? In the future, IF He were to buy a PS2 locomotive, then DCS would make sense, but even a PS2 locomotive can be run in conventional with the KW, until Jeremy decides wether DCS is a worthwhile investment for him.

   Remember, He has ONE locomotive, and that is PS1, and is New to the Hobby, Hopefully, he will stay in the Hobby, but is not even sure about that yet. I am not saying DCS is a bad system, I just don't see any advantage in it for Jeremy, maybe it will be the thing to really put a smile on his face in the future, but that is at least one more locomotive away before seeing any real benefit. Why the big push to sell someone new something that they don't need yet? What can DCS do for a PS1 locomotive that conventional control, or even the KW wont do for a PS1 locomotive.

Doug

[Ole Timer]

3railguy

LOL...you are getting your feet wet and went off the low dive. Going off the high dive means spending 2K like you said. You ran into an issue and here you are posting on forums meeting up with train people. You are hearing a wide range of opinions as to what is right. No single opinion, including mine is right. I just don't feel you got the shaft, hate seeing your stomach turned, and based on personal experience, feel you will be fine. Take it for what you think it is worth. Personally, I prefer to see your jar half full because I want to see you have fun. Things are not always as bad as they appear.

Once you get involved in this hobby, you will find even the most seasoned train heads will argue over who's brand of trains, transformer, or operating system is best. Some will argue till pigs learn to fly. Everybody, no matter how experienced, gets a dud. That's when you deal with the problem as you are here. For me, it's been this way for the 30 years I've been in this hobby.

 You're right John .... seems when someone thumps the setup or the types of trains we ourselves have it's like they stuck their finger in our eye .... . Sometimes we all get too darn excited about a comment .... me for sure ... LOL .    And believe me even we OLD codgers screw up on buys ... we just keep it quiet though .

[Scott Swanson]

jayres1973

I know I've been in kind of a hurry to get stuff done. I'll will "from now on" try to have some patience & check out what all is out there before jumping into another disaster waiting to happen. I don't know what my next purchase will be, especially when it comes to DCS or staying conventional for awhile. I think I really do need to "get my feet wet" before just diving in. Thank you again everyone, Jeremy

Jeremy,

Welcome to the hobby and to the CTT forums. 

I have been interested in O gauge trains for about 4 years now and am still learning new things all the time.  One of the fundamental things I have learned is that different people enjoy this hobby differently, so differently in fact that the only real common denominator is the gauge of the track.

Some people like really old trains, but others like only new trains.  Some want their O gauge trains to be exactly like real trains, but others don't care as long as they look good to them.  Some people want realistic scenery... some like colorful, oversized operating accessories... some like a combination.  Some don't need any more scenery than a floor or plywood table.

You have received many replies to your post and a lot of advice.  I am certain that all of the advice is well meant and sincere, but its value to you depends on whether the advisor likes the same things about O gauge trains that you do.

I really like the locomotive you started with.  I haven't seen tenders that nice on many steam locomotives for the price you paid.  I know you have some problems, but it sounds like the hobby shop is going to make it right.  Let us know how it goes.

Good luck,

Scott

P.S.  I really enjoy the CTT forums but there are also the OGR forums that you may find useful.
 

[3railguy]

LOL...you are getting your feet wet and went off the low dive. Going off the high dive means spending 2K like you said. You ran into an issue and here you are posting on forums meeting up with train people. You are hearing a wide range of opinions as to what is right. No single opinion, including mine is right. I just don't feel you got the shaft, hate seeing your stomach turned, and based on personal experience, feel you will be fine. Take it for what you think it is worth. Personally, I prefer to see your jar half full because I want to see you have fun. Things are not always as bad as they appear.

Once you get involved in this hobby, you will find even the most seasoned train heads will argue over who's brand of trains, transformer, or operating system is best. Some will argue till pigs learn to fly. Everybody, no matter how experienced, gets a dud. That's when you deal with the problem as you are here. For me, it's been this way for the 30 years I've been in this hobby.

[jayres1973]

I know I've been in kind of a hurry to get stuff done. I'll will "from now on" try to have some patience & check out what all is out there before jumping into another disaster waiting to happen. I don't know what my next purchase will be, especially when it comes to DCS or staying conventional for awhile. I think I really do need to "get my feet wet" before just diving in. Thank you again everyone, Jeremy

[3railguy]

jayres1973

I'm going to try to get up to the shop by 6pm this evening. Hopefully, I'll have a big grin on my face when I walk out of there. Thanks everyone, and I will be looking for the "TVS" that a lot of people have advised. Other than what I stated earlier about them giving me the free capacitor as a replacement for the battery, is there anything else I "NEED" to be looking for? thanks again, Jeremy

I would get a bell button if you haven't put that on your list. Oh yes extra smoke fluid if you didn't get any already. MTH engines have a thirsty appitite for smoke fluid.

On smoke fluid, I have read or been told Lionel smoke fluid is not a good choice for MTH engines. I don't know if it's a fairy tale or not. I've got plenty of both brands so it's something I never considered.

[LawsonFarmsRR]

Ole Timer

Sirjames ... you hit it right on the head ... but seems you got shot down . Oh well ... we can only advise ..... we did'nt think he got such a GOOD deal ... time will tell won't it .

 

I totally agree with you, Sir James, and Don, as you can see from my posts on this thread.

And I an not so sure Sir James got shot down. I noticed on one post Jeremy said "I'll be buying a MTH DCS as soon as I get the loco repaired or whatever it needs".

I hope he at least checks out one or two other dealers and talks to a few local toy train folks.

Patrick

[Ole Timer]

Sirjames ... you hit it right on the head ... but seems you got shot down . Oh well ... we can only advise ..... we did'nt think he got such a GOOD deal ... time will tell won't it .

[anjdevil2]

Jeremy - it's been already been said, you got the best bang for the buck for sure and as long as your LTS guys stands behind what he sold you, then it's all good.

How I got back into it is simple.  I purchased a new NYC Flyer by Lionel, then a Pennsy Flyer.  I accumilated what I wanted with a mix of old and new as my budget allowed.  I got TMCC after I got a great deal on a C&O Berkshire with TMCC.  I upgraded to Command Control (TMCC) for my conventional (old) engines by purchasing the command base for conventional use with TMCC.  I will be selling all that, now that I have Legacy (and I got that at a bargain price by waiting) and waiting for the the release (by Lionel) of the PowerBridge so I can run CC through Legacy.  Oh, I also got a TPC 400 for $100...may be getting a used ZW with1 180w brick on the cheap as well.

Right now, I have 2 CW80's a LW & KW.  KW sits (no room to put on the small 40 sq ft I run on), LW runs TMCC and very well, I might add.  The LW runs the PS1 & PS2 MTH's I test, the CW's not so well.

I personally don't care for MTH (though I just got one.... CHEAP) for all the issues, but don't let that sway you.  I have the reset chip and you can find it on line, got mine $25 and have personally reset 20-30 MTH engines with it.

Take your time, upgrade when you can or find a bargain, and you can always upgrade for the future, like I did.  When the time comes for the BIG purchase, you'll have gotten all the sniggly little things needed to run it ahead of time.

If you are seriouly considering Atlas, don't accumilate so much Fastrak, that you can't get out of it.  I LOVE the Atlas, but I have so much invested in Fastrak, I'm just staying with it.

I am closing a Train Store right now (owner passed away) so I have some insight on the business.  Rest assured, there is always help right here.

Good Luck and welcome to the (O Gauge) Club!

[jayres1973]

I'm going to try to get up to the shop by 6pm this evening. Hopefully, I'll have a big grin on my face when I walk out of there. Thanks everyone, and I will be looking for the "TVS" that a lot of people have advised. Other than what I stated earlier about them giving me the free capacitor as a replacement for the battery, is there anything else I "NEED" to be looking for? thanks again, Jeremy

[challenger3980]

jayres1973

after the amount of money I dumped into this new hobby just yesterday, .... it's almost enough to end my days of even wanting to ever see a steam locomotive again. I want to thank all of you for your comments and help. This is the most frustrating type of "relaxing" hobby I've ever encountered. I don't see how many people stay with it. I know that I'm done with the KW, no matter what. I'll be buying a MTH DCS as soon as I get the loco repaired or whatever it needs. I'm also going to be buying some better track, ... "Atlas" of course, for me. I really like the size of O scale, but this "my first loco" will be a test to see if I've got the nerves and patience to stick with it. HO just looks more like a toy to me, but that's just my opinion. Ain't it fun?

   Jeremy,

  I can't imagine why you would feel that way, BTW, these are both Lionel and both are cab# 3980. Actually, YES I can imagine why you would feel that way, The O-Gauge is even a semi-scale LionMaster series Challenger. A Full scale model would would dwarf the HO model even a bit more. Unfortunately the Full Scale versions haven't fit into the budget yet.

Doug

[rtraincollector]

Now that more info has come out than at first I see where this has done a complete loop you might say and yes I agree with challenger and 3 rail and others in here you did good for your first buy. you get the chip set and you will be doing good or if you can get the shop owner to do it for you for free but like others have said if possible get a ( I think this is the correct one) Daley's replacement battery. well not actually from what I understand battery but it takes the place of it and you won't have to worry about having a dead engine again. I've always steered away from proto one because of the horror stories I've always heard and from a hobby shop owner but then again he sold both but was more Lionel type guy.

you will come out of this I'm sure fine and who knows maybe your next will be a postwar Lionel as 3 rail stated but my preference is a 681,671,682, or 2020 6-8-6 with a 2671W tender even thou they all didn't come with that tender.

either way keep coming back and do let us know how you made out. I now have a feeling the owner will make it right for you.

One comment thou do listen to some of these guys and there troubles with Railking switches.

I'm getting ready to build a layout my self and because toe cost of the switches i see this taking me about 3 years as i will only be able to afford a switch ever so often with the other things I will be doing and buying. but I'm going GarGraves track and probably there switches but may get some Ross switches.

Either way happy railroading and keep it going.

[3railguy]

Yes, both DCS and TMCC have their pros and cons. Both are good operating systems and both have their seasoned proponents. There is really no "right way" in this hobby. It just does not make sense to buy a Z-4000 unless you know you plan to buy into DCS and PS-2. PS-1 engines preform fine on pure sine wave and were designed for it. That's what KW's deliver. I've kept my bias out of this thread the best I could. Otherwise I would have told him electronics suck and to buy a postwar 736. However, I know better than to chime in with that kind of nonesense.

[challenger3980]

LawsonFarmsRR

3railguy

 

So, Jeremy got into the hobby for nearly half the price of the "right" way. Unfortunately he ran into a snag which is reversible. If he loves his Northern and doesn't want to spend a ton more money, then let's FIX IT Is that so hard???? PS-1 engines may be outdated but with a little TLC on the battery issue, they are fantastic engines.

 

Either do it the "right Way" or don't do it. So he got started for half price. If he plans to expand in the future he will have to spent the other half anyway. And never let a dealer get away with selling you what he wants to get rid of. Z-4000's, PS2 and DCS are the future if you are going MTH.

My suggestion to Jeremy is to pay attention to Ole Timer. He has the experience and knows what he is talking about.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

Hi Jeremy,

   I've been trying to keep up with this thread, I haven't abandoned you.

  Jeremy is doin just Fine, if not "THE RIGHT WAY" in some people's opinion. The Z4000 is totally over kill at this point, Jeremy's locomotive is not PS2. It is his FIRST locomotive, so to be all worried that He MIGHT go MTH in the future, is jumping the gun by half a mile, in a quarter mile drag. The KW would still be useful for a large variety of puposes down the road, so is not (in MY opinion) money wasted.

  John (3railguy) and I have disagreed on an issue or two in the past, but I have to Completely Agree with him on about everything so far in this thread. I think that the shop owner tried to meet Jeremy's needs the best he could, without blowing his budget on things that would not give him any benefit in what he was working with. Most shops are more than Happy to test run equipment, if asked, but I don't know of ANY shop that test runs EVERY piece of equipment before it goes out the door. As I recall, the locomotive DID run at first, when Jeremy brought it home, it was later that it failed, and is willing to try to make it right. The shop also offered a one year "No Questions Asked" Guaranty on a Probably 50 or more year old transformer. Sounds like he could be the Brother to Charley, the owner at Whistle Stop Trains here in Portland, First Class, All the Way myself, I wouldn't hesitate to shop there for a minute.

  As far as, the opinion on modern transformers, I haven't used a Z4000, but 400 watts, 2 variable and 2 fixed voltage outputs, compared to a New ZW's Possible 720 watts, 4 variable outputs, I know which one I spent MY money on. But we each have our own needs, preferences and opinions.

  Jeremy, I personally think that You did Very Well, with your first purchase, I have personally had problems with BOTH Lionel and MTH, Brand New, Right out of the box. In MY experience, I have had much better service from Lionel, when I did have the rare problem. You seemed to Like the Locomotive Very Much, it should be an easy fix, so "Get'er Done" an enjoy that New locomotive. You will learn the ins and outs quicker than you expect, so don't let a little set back like this discourage You, I do Hope that You do become a "Lifer" in this enjoyable hobby, like you mentioned that you expect to be.

  Remember, trains are supposed to be FUN,

Doug

[3railguy]

I can see why the PS-1 northern sucker punched you. If that turns your crank, by all means, keep the Northern!! LOL!!!!

Bargain hunting is not such a bad thing starting out. Like you say, you wanted to see if you like the hobby or not which is a very sensible approach. There is a variety of good time proven technologies out there and there is no one right way to go about things. It all depends on how you were born into the hobby, your budget, and what your likes are. In my opinion you did fine and I think once you get your battery issue behind you, you will be thrilled with your engine. It should give you years of good service. Getting into high tech does not happen over night and like you say, it's expensive. You aren't going to meet up with O gauge buds overnight either. Additionally, everything you bought with exception of Fastrack can be worked into a high tech enviroment. The KW can be assigned to accessories. Your Northern can be upgraded to TMCC and Railsounds with Digital Dynamics and Electric RR gear. The conversions are not costly. To put it in a nut shell, I think you're off to a good start.

 

[jayres1973]

I just like this only being a 10 minute drive from home:

[jayres1973]

As far as me knowing anyone into O scale in my area, not a soul. The closest HO & N scale guys that I've came in contact with are at least 45 miles away, but they don't like "O" at all. And that's a MRR club that has a decent HO layout and they're now getting into N scale. So, I haven't had any luck with anyone being nearby.

Challenger "Doug" & 3 railguy both have me in their sights, so to speak. This is all new to me. I didn't want to jump into a hobby, spend $2k, and then be done with it after 3 or 4 weeks. After some enjoyment, I'm 99% sure I'll be a lifer. And I'm already thinking about more O gauge equipment and some HO. Hindsight is 20/20 & I really shouldn't be bargain hunting on my own to start out with. There's so much out there. A lot of people are telling me about the Z series from MTH, but I'm really impressed with the Legacy system,... from what I've seen on youtube. I wish there was a place I could try out equipment, etc. Like, at a guitar store. You can play anything hanging on the wall.

It would seem there'd be some mrr guys in my area, especially with the RJ Corman "Old Kentucky Home" Dinner train a couple of blocks from where I live. Also I live about a 10 to 15 minute drive from New Haven, where the Kentucky Railroad museum is, I've searched all over the internet and can't find anyone close. I did post earlier that there's one man I know of in the area, he has a few Lionel trains, but all he's interested in now is modeling airplanes.

Totally off topic, but I'm going to be selling my guitar equipment to buy more train stuff, so if anyone here knows any "guitarists" looking for a good deal, just let me know. But all of that will probably be going to ebay in the next few days.

I just wish there was a way for me to learn about locos, DCS, DCC, and the possibilities,etc. other than going to youtube and watching videos.

Thank you everyone again for all the input and suggestions. My first lesson is being learned and I hope the next one isn't as frustrating. thanks again, Jeremy

[LawsonFarmsRR]

3railguy

 

So, Jeremy got into the hobby for nearly half the price of the "right" way. Unfortunately he ran into a snag which is reversible. If he loves his Northern and doesn't want to spend a ton more money, then let's FIX IT Is that so hard???? PS-1 engines may be outdated but with a little TLC on the battery issue, they are fantastic engines.

 

Either do it the "right Way" or don't do it. So he got started for half price. If he plans to expand in the future he will have to spent the other half anyway. And never let a dealer get away with selling you what he wants to get rid of. Z-4000's, PS2 and DCS are the future if you are going MTH.

My suggestion to Jeremy is to pay attention to Ole Timer. He has the experience and knows what he is talking about.

Just my opinion.

Patrick

[dougdagrump]

Jeremy, Any chance of knowing or finding some other "O" gaugers in your area ?

There are a few that I know of in the Bluegrass State but none of them are in your area. One of the responders , Ben, is from the Lexington area so you might try dropping him a message to see if he knows of any within a reasonable distance. Possibly they could help with some guidance and instruction in avoiding problems, It sounds as though the hobby shop is going to be helpful in correcting the current issue.

Was going to suggest maybe a Z-1000 but of the two PS-1's that I have one will run but the other won't.

[3railguy]

Nobody seems to be looking at the cash difference here when posting the "right way" and it is substancial. If one reads the entire thread, he will see Jeremy indicated he was doing some price comparisons and my hunch is the dealer did his best to set him up with some serious stuff without spending a ton of cash. However, it's a deal that went sour and it happens to the best of them. The dealer promised to make it right and we should give him credit for that. I own enough bargain PS-1 engines and old school power supplies to know Jeremy did not get the shaft. These numbers are rough because discount prices are not fixed.

 

1) He got a PS-1 Northern for $250 and it is a knock out. OK, so I am biased here and Jeremy appears to be fascinated with it. Looking at the Trainz web site, PS-2 Northerns range from $350 to $375 discount. But I did not see any PS-2 ATSF Northerns. The ones I saw are drabbish to me. Are there any PS-2 ATSF Northerns out there in that range? I dunno. Is the ATSF Northern a knock out to Jeremy? if yes, then lets FIX it and quit ranting about the dealer.

 

2) He got a KW transformer for $125. Not the best for PS-1 engines but they are good enough. A Z-750 would be more appropriate but that is more of a starter set expander. Not a lot of power there. A Z-4000 of course would be the kicks but they are $400 discount. One doesn't want to spend bookooo bucks on a power supply until one knows who's operating system he will buy into should he go high tech. Who knows, he may go Legacy and a brick loaded ZW may be a better choice.

 

3) Fastrack. He didn't say how much he got but my guess is $75 for a big loop. It may not be the best track but it is easy to set up for instant train operation verses Atlas O. Great stuff to tide one over until his permanent layout is up in running.

 

Total: $450

 

The cost of starting out "right" as suggested in this thread:

PS-2 Northern - $375

Z-4000 Transformer - $400 (I ruled out a Z-750 because it is skimpy on power compared to KW and Z-4000)

Loop of Atlas O track $75 (you can rule out carpet running with this) 

 

Total: $850.

 

So, Jeremy got into the hobby for nearly half the price of the "right" way. Unfortunately he ran into a snag which is reversible. If he loves his Northern and doesn't want to spend a ton more money, then let's FIX IT Is that so hard???? PS-1 engines may be outdated but with a little TLC on the battery issue, they are fantastic engines.