Smoke Fluid --- The Great Debate!

[eZAK]

Borrowing from Charlie Daniels

"The devil said I'll start this show as he pulled out a bottle of lamp oil & ran it through his unit ...It made an evil flame that sounded something like this....
....(snap, crackle, pop) as his house burns down and his life is in danger.
Well thats pretty good ole son, but sit right there and let me show you how its done.....I use various light weight oils with safety & comon sence always in mind....I never seen a flame just alot of smoke...I never leave 'em unattened so I know this for a fact." [:D][:o)]

Now that being said, I've used all types of smoke fluid and basicaly they are all scented mineral oil. [:p]
If you like scents by all means use it. [8D]
If you don't you Can use mineral oil with out any harm what-so-ever. [;)]
If you choose lamp oil you will get better smoke output but you should also have a keen sense of awareness.

I'm Frugal NOT cheap!
If I save a few bucks here and a few there I'll buy another K-line or Williams engine.
It's your trains so get out there and smoke 'em up!![:D]

[brianel027]

Well on the light side, I was watching the latest news off the campaign trail. [zzz]
And I can't help but notice when it comes to real issues, these guys are the best of the best at putting up a smoke screen. [soapbox]

Then it got me to thinking - being the creative guy that I am - how the devil could I get one of those guys to fit in one of my train engines??? Talk about smoke output! Whoa!

Woudn't that put a new twist on the next CTT Forum product debate:
"The Bush unit smokes like crazy."
Yeah, but the Kerry unit costs less."
"But you get a tax break for buying the Bush unit."
"The Dean unit was good, but I can't find it anymore."
"You know the lesser known Nader unit puts out environmentally safe smoke."

And I also figure these guys have a lot in common with my trains: they all run in circles without really going anywhere.
I'm able to at least forgive my trains for this shortcoming.

[Anonymous]

I've used 3 in one oil in my american flyer challenger for years and no fire yet.
It is cheap and usually around the house.
We have an american flyler repairman at one of our train shows that recommends the use of wd 40 shot into the stack. He produces some good smoke at train shows with it. dave.

[Anonymous]

i think i'll just use smoke fluid provided by the companys. I don't want risking a smoldering train wreck![xx(]

[FJ and G]

I prefer Deep Purple's "Smoke On The Water, A Fire in the Sky."

For added aroma, I purchased a box of Swisher Sweets to smoke when I fire up #527.

Dave V.

[Anonymous]

Brianel,

The Kerry oil is best LEFT,

the Bush oil is RIGHT.

[FJ and G]

I think that both the Kerry and Bush oil are good choices for your locomotive; both put out a voluminous quantity of smoke.

I could go for some Martha Stewart aromatic scents.

dav

[jkerklo]

What, exactly, is mineral oil.

The question came up a while back and none of my references could answer the question.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

John K.

The exact consistency of mineral oil is kept a secret, like the Kentucky Fried Chicken batter recipe.

If people find out you can make smoke fluid from common household liquids, they would lose a lot of money.

I believe that the key to safety here is to NOT put any flammable incredients in your locomotive.

dav

[Anonymous]

i also wonder about the health issue of mineral oil.

i have young children and you may know that means every busy body on the planet will offer advice on how to raise then without killing them. [D)] anyhow, there was an article one of my busybody relatives sent me and it was about children that have ingested mineral oils and ended up in thier lungs and caused a serious amount of distress and medical problems for several kids and a death or two [xx(]. i'll try to find the article again.

is there a doctor in the house[?]

i asked this question before on another thread somewhere and it went unanswered (the safety aspect that is).

inhaling vaporizedor or burned oils cannot be good for you, BUT... is it bad for you?
[?][?][?]

[jkerklo]

What, exactly, is mineral oil.

The question came up a while back and none of my references could answer the question.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

woodsy,

I do find it interesting that smoke fluid has somehow escaped the scruitiny of the surgeon general. Perhaps they categorize it as a type of incense.

[jkerklo]

I use mineral oil for sharpening knives.

I was looking for a sharpening fluid and found one (Buck Brothers, i think) that said "Contains pure mineral oil. Not harmful to people or the environment, or anything." I liked that very positive statement.

Not wanting to pay $4.00 for a couple of ounces, I went to the drug store and found a quart of "pure mineral oil" for a few dollars.

The mineral oil was sold as some kind of bowel lubricant, among other uses.

Baby oil is mineral oil with perfume.

Sorry about the earlier double post. When I tried to post the first one, I got a message that the post couldn't be made because "flood control had been activated. Try again later." So I did, and got two posts. Curious.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Anonymous]

dave,
me too. if you look at a bottle of babyoil or mineral oil the new ones have a warning that reads like a pack of cigarettes.

excerpt from a bottle of baby oil in our closet:
"drinking and accidental inhalation can cause serious injury or death. should any breathing problems occur consult a doctor immediately."

we have an old bottle with no child cap or warning and a new bottle WITH a child proof cap and a warning. somebody call Oprah!

[FJ and G]

John,

Did you use any in the locomotives?

So then, smoke fluid is mineral oil. Possibly diluted with distilled water? Any other additives?

At a few dollars a quart, that is a lot cheaper than "authorized" smoke fluid.

You could experiment in the other direction as well, by putting smoke fluid on the baby.

dav

[Anonymous]

i've always been better at reverse engineering![:D]

if this baby/mineral oil thing is true about choo-choo smoke. we could possibly kill the gravy train (pun intended) for the smoke fluid manufacturers.[:p]

[jkerklo]

I haven't tried the mineral oil in any trains. The only liquid smoke engine I have is an expensive RK Challenger that wouldn't run the last time I put it on the track.

I do have some postwar smoking cabooses (they take a liquid), but they don't smoke well with anything I have tried.

I did recall an article in one of the mags that said don't use "lamp oil," but I think that lamp oil is more like kerosene, that is petroleum based. I don't know what mineral oil is from, hence the previous question. Looked for the magazine article when this topic started, assuming it was what it was all about, but couldn't find it.

I am into postwar smokers. What I need is smoke pellets. After the article about them a while back I tried to interest a chemist friend to analyze some and make them, but no luck. $25 / bottle is a bit much for smoke, and the supply has to be running out. K-line smoke pellets aren't quite the same. I want the Lionel smell. It reminds me of childhood.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Anonymous]

please accept my apologies for posting a link to another forum here, but i think the info and discussion in this thread deserves a little more attention and i didn't want to paste it all over and make a wicked long thread.

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=415104135

it seems to me that big smoke users especially should look into this.

[FJ and G]

"I want the Lionel smell. It
reminds me of childhood."
----------------

John,

The smells of my childhood hand-me-down Lionel set that I recall most vividly is that of the engine overheating and of the 3-in-1 oil I used to lube the train and the steel tracks to keep the rust down (I ran it on the dirt floor of my basement and used to get shocked when touching the tracks).

Was a load of fun watching the sparks fly. I still love sparks..

dav

[Anonymous]

the sparks and the oil! [:O][:P][wow] that IS the stuff!

maybe i can try and dump out my wifes little candle/smelly wax/incense thingy and put some 3-in-1 in it and warm it up... [^] ...but not too warm![:O][oops]

[Anonymous]

WHOA ! can anybody help put out the FIRE on top of my head![#wstupid]HOT! HOT! HOT!
think I used the wrong oil?[#oops]

[(-D][(-D][(-D]

[Anonymous]

Gee, just use the smoke fluid that is designed for your engines. That way you can't go wrong.
Imagine sending back your loco and find that the warranty is void because you used Olive Oil.
Bill
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[jkerklo]

Dave,

Now we understand why you are so into scenery; how more prototypical than dirt!
Did you dig up the dirt and form it for grades?

I think you might be on to something. Talk about play value.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[eZAK]

Smoke Fluid IS Mineral Oil !

Mineral Oil:
"A mixture of liquid hydrocarbons obtained from petroleum. It is used as laxative, lubricant, ointment base, and emollient."
It is produced as a byproduct of the distillation of gasoline from crude oil!

http://www.babysweetcheeks.com/Pages/Mineral%20Oil.htm (mineral oil facts)

http://www.mdadvice.com/library/drug/drug281.html

And you thought it was just for trains. [:)]

OK, lets review, You should not take internaly or rub on skin But you can use it in any device designed for liquid smoke use.

[FJ and G]

eZak,

I read with great interest your first link on mineral oil facts, and here is one of the quotes from that link:

"Mineral oil is the leftover liquid, and because it is abundant, it is very
inexpensive. In fact, it is more expensive to dispose of mineral oil than to purchase it."

----------------------------------------------

Geeeee, and all of this time, I thought that the toy train companies spent megabucks on refining their smoke fluid from petroleum and now I find that "it is more expensive to dispose of mineral oil than to purchase it."

Sounds like a snake oil sale.

[jkerklo]

Let's include another "snake oil" in the discussion: track cleaning fluid.

I use rubbing alcohol, straight. On those green 3M things, on a cloth, and on the roller of track cleaning cars, for cleaning track. Also, for cleaning wheels and motor armatures. It is cheap, and I use a lot.

I bought some "track cleaning fluid" and it smelled just like alcohol. I bought some "won't catch fire" track cleaning fluid, and all it is is alcohol diluted with water to the point where it won't burn.

Your experience?

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

John,

Yes, how could I miss that?

Some other items that took a lot of money for toy train producers to produce:

-- A bag of authentic coal with certificate to guarantee its authenticity
-- A bag of lichen
-- A bottle of ground foam
-- Authentic wood logs for your flatcar

Hint, hint, most of these items can be found in your back yard or local field.

dav

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'm surprised that you guys don't know that mineral oil comes from freshly squeezed minerals. Baby oil comes from freshly squeezed babys, and snake oil comes from..... well you get the idea.

Beside, why do we want our trains to smoke, smoking is a nasty habit. If we aren't careful, some of our cars may ask to run on the non smoking section of our layouts, or not want to be near the the engine, since they don't smoke. Do we know the effects of second hand smoke?

Maybe this is why people switched to air travel, airplanes don't smoke. Please forgive my political incorrectness here, but I am part Polish.

Did you hear about the Polish airliner that crashed????
It ran out of coal.

No, I haven't been smoking any loco weed this morning, I just woke up this way. I guess it's going to be one of THOSE days.[:-,][:P][:P][:D][(-D][(-D][(-D][swg] Sorry Pat.[;)]

[jkerklo]

Great Product Idea

You know those structures that include an outdoor privy? Well, a truely scale modeller needs authentic privy smell. The market will need a variety of scents, like Construction Worker, Yard ***, Switchman, Beer Drinking He-Man ... you get the idea.

Here's what we will do. I'll buy a pot load (pun intended) of two ounce bottles (this stuff is priceless), label them, and send a few hundred to each of you. You fill them. For us older types, at least 50 bottles a day should be no problem. We will also include little slips of paper saying "PACKED BY: (your name here) to guarantee authenticity.

We will charge $14.95 each. I'll take the orders, and send you shipping instructions, and say, $0.50 per bottle (seems right, I know what it really is). One of us will make a fortune. Who knows, some scents could become so popular that fame is just a bottle away.

How is this any different than smoke fluid or track cleaning fluid? Or coal, lichen, or logs? Or most household products, for that matter.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

Note from the manufacturers:

This just in from a toy train company.

Dear Consumer,

The exact ingredients of our smoke fluid product cannot, unfortunately, be divulged. However, I will try to answer your question about why this "worthless mineral oil that is more costly to tra***han to sell, is so expensive."

First, the marketing department has spent considerable time designing the bottle and the art department has painstakenly worked on the label design.

Secondly, our team of smoke lobbyists on Capitol Hill have worked diligently to avoid having our product scruitinized by the FDA, EPA, and DHS.

Thirdly, many advertising dollars have been spent on slick magazine ads promoting our product extolling the virtues of our brand over the competitors'

We hope that you have now gained some insights into our fine product and I encourage you to buy several gallons worth, because you never know when you will run out of smoke.

XXX
Vice President of Marketing and Public Relations



dav