Smoke Fluid --- The Great Debate!

[ben10ben]

"Were you the one putting WD40 in your engines or was that lighter fluid?"

For your imformation, I would NEVER NEVER NEVER do something so stupid as to put some sort of highly volatile chemical in one of my engines.

I refuse to use lamp oil in my engines as well. It's too risky. I would much rather spend a few more bucks and be safe than to risk flames shooting out of the top of one of my engines.

[Anonymous]

bennie10ben,

Were you the one putting WD40 in your engines or was that lighter fluid?

pax

[ben10ben]

"I've used 3 in one oil in my american flyer challenger for years and no fire yet."

A lot of American Flyer operators in this area use the exact same thing. I've never been a big fan of it personally because it doesn't smell very good and I find that it tends to gum up the wicks badly, and in doing that make the wick centers much more likely to char all the way through and snap when being removed.

"smoke fluid is mineral oil. Possibly diluted with distilled water?"

Good idea, but not quite possible. Like any other hydrocarbon, it won't mix with water. Add a drop of water to your least favorite bottle of smoke fluid, and watch it sink to the bottom just like you would expect it to do with regular old motor oil.

"What I need is smoke pellets...I tried to interest a chemist friend to analyze some and make them, but no luck."

The pellets are an aromatic hydrocarbon known as meta-terphynil(sp?). It often sees use in other applications as an insulator in high-voltage electicity transmission, I believe. See January 2003 CTT for everything you ever wanted to know about smoke.

"I did recall an article in one of the mags that said don't use 'lamp oil,'... Looked for the magazine article when this topic started, assuming it was what it was all about, but couldn't find it"

That is indeed what the magazine article was all about. See OGR Run 199, February 2004, pages 6-8(Official Car Column).

[Buckeye Riveter]

About 3 weeks ago at a train show in the big city, I came across a vendor selling JT Mega Smoke Fluid. He was from the east coast and I told him I was from Roger's Corners, Ohio. He had a train running around the track just blowing out the smoke. I purchased one bottle and have tried it in two of my engines. It is absolutely great! Smells good too, compared to the standard Lionel and MTH smoke.

As to trying to duplicate the outhouse smell, just kitbash using the parts you find in the cat's litter box.

[spankybird]

Hi all,


We have seen this smoke fluid talked about and we bought some and have given it a short test try. [tup]

It’s JT Mega – Steam smoke fluid. It comes in 20 different scents. It gives a very nice white trail of smoke from the stack and shortly after the train passes so does the smoke. After 15 minutes of running the trains, you don’t test the smoke alarms.

It even has three dinner scents, which is great for the K-Line dinner.

Here is their web site.

www.jttrains.net

tom

[Big_Boy_4005]

We be OPEN 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and WE aims to please!!![swg]

[Anonymous]

I have to second the remarks about being careful & testing. Just because no one's stuff has caught fire before doesn't mean it won't happen to someone. Look at NASA -- for years, chunks of foam insulation would fall off the Space Shuttle during lanch with no ill effect. Until last year, that is. Seven people died because nothing had ever gone wrong before & people got complacent.

It's your money, but it's also your life. Exercise caution when you buy a new bottle & make sure you never leave your equipment running unattended. We'd all like to be able to talk to you tomorrow.

Tony

[FJ and G]

Brian W.

Welcome to the more open forum.

I've spoken to at least 15 people who use non-smokeless lamp oil--the kind from Wal-Mart--without an incident, and for years. I cannot confirm this but I believe that the only downside is that the intervals between fillings is slightly less.

To my knowledge, no harmful effects of this type of oil has ever been experienced. I would, however, be extremely cautious about using a different fluid that has not been extensively tested.

[Anonymous]

Surprisingly this thread is allowed. Its been beaten to death on 'the other forum', but at least its not been yanked here! In spite of all the nay sayers, I've used lamp oil on all my locos for the last eight years. No explosions, no flames, fires or deaths in the family. So if one wants to go this route, at least theres no deletions here.

[FJ and G]

Note from the manufacturers:

This just in from a toy train company.

Dear Consumer,

The exact ingredients of our smoke fluid product cannot, unfortunately, be divulged. However, I will try to answer your question about why this "worthless mineral oil that is more costly to tra***han to sell, is so expensive."

First, the marketing department has spent considerable time designing the bottle and the art department has painstakenly worked on the label design.

Secondly, our team of smoke lobbyists on Capitol Hill have worked diligently to avoid having our product scruitinized by the FDA, EPA, and DHS.

Thirdly, many advertising dollars have been spent on slick magazine ads promoting our product extolling the virtues of our brand over the competitors'

We hope that you have now gained some insights into our fine product and I encourage you to buy several gallons worth, because you never know when you will run out of smoke.

XXX
Vice President of Marketing and Public Relations



dav

[jkerklo]

Great Product Idea

You know those structures that include an outdoor privy? Well, a truely scale modeller needs authentic privy smell. The market will need a variety of scents, like Construction Worker, Yard ***, Switchman, Beer Drinking He-Man ... you get the idea.

Here's what we will do. I'll buy a pot load (pun intended) of two ounce bottles (this stuff is priceless), label them, and send a few hundred to each of you. You fill them. For us older types, at least 50 bottles a day should be no problem. We will also include little slips of paper saying "PACKED BY: (your name here) to guarantee authenticity.

We will charge $14.95 each. I'll take the orders, and send you shipping instructions, and say, $0.50 per bottle (seems right, I know what it really is). One of us will make a fortune. Who knows, some scents could become so popular that fame is just a bottle away.

How is this any different than smoke fluid or track cleaning fluid? Or coal, lichen, or logs? Or most household products, for that matter.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'm surprised that you guys don't know that mineral oil comes from freshly squeezed minerals. Baby oil comes from freshly squeezed babys, and snake oil comes from..... well you get the idea.

Beside, why do we want our trains to smoke, smoking is a nasty habit. If we aren't careful, some of our cars may ask to run on the non smoking section of our layouts, or not want to be near the the engine, since they don't smoke. Do we know the effects of second hand smoke?

Maybe this is why people switched to air travel, airplanes don't smoke. Please forgive my political incorrectness here, but I am part Polish.

Did you hear about the Polish airliner that crashed????
It ran out of coal.

No, I haven't been smoking any loco weed this morning, I just woke up this way. I guess it's going to be one of THOSE days.[:-,][:P][:P][:D][(-D][(-D][(-D][swg] Sorry Pat.[;)]

[FJ and G]

John,

Yes, how could I miss that?

Some other items that took a lot of money for toy train producers to produce:

-- A bag of authentic coal with certificate to guarantee its authenticity
-- A bag of lichen
-- A bottle of ground foam
-- Authentic wood logs for your flatcar

Hint, hint, most of these items can be found in your back yard or local field.

dav

[jkerklo]

Let's include another "snake oil" in the discussion: track cleaning fluid.

I use rubbing alcohol, straight. On those green 3M things, on a cloth, and on the roller of track cleaning cars, for cleaning track. Also, for cleaning wheels and motor armatures. It is cheap, and I use a lot.

I bought some "track cleaning fluid" and it smelled just like alcohol. I bought some "won't catch fire" track cleaning fluid, and all it is is alcohol diluted with water to the point where it won't burn.

Your experience?

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

eZak,

I read with great interest your first link on mineral oil facts, and here is one of the quotes from that link:

"Mineral oil is the leftover liquid, and because it is abundant, it is very
inexpensive. In fact, it is more expensive to dispose of mineral oil than to purchase it."

----------------------------------------------

Geeeee, and all of this time, I thought that the toy train companies spent megabucks on refining their smoke fluid from petroleum and now I find that "it is more expensive to dispose of mineral oil than to purchase it."

Sounds like a snake oil sale.

[eZAK]

Smoke Fluid IS Mineral Oil !

Mineral Oil:
"A mixture of liquid hydrocarbons obtained from petroleum. It is used as laxative, lubricant, ointment base, and emollient."
It is produced as a byproduct of the distillation of gasoline from crude oil!

http://www.babysweetcheeks.com/Pages/Mineral%20Oil.htm (mineral oil facts)

http://www.mdadvice.com/library/drug/drug281.html

And you thought it was just for trains. [:)]

OK, lets review, You should not take internaly or rub on skin But you can use it in any device designed for liquid smoke use.

[jkerklo]

Dave,

Now we understand why you are so into scenery; how more prototypical than dirt!
Did you dig up the dirt and form it for grades?

I think you might be on to something. Talk about play value.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Anonymous]

Gee, just use the smoke fluid that is designed for your engines. That way you can't go wrong.
Imagine sending back your loco and find that the warranty is void because you used Olive Oil.
Bill
www.modeltrainjournal.com

[Anonymous]

WHOA ! can anybody help put out the FIRE on top of my head![#wstupid]HOT! HOT! HOT!
think I used the wrong oil?[#oops]

[(-D][(-D][(-D]

[Anonymous]

the sparks and the oil! [:O][:P][wow] that IS the stuff!

maybe i can try and dump out my wifes little candle/smelly wax/incense thingy and put some 3-in-1 in it and warm it up... [^] ...but not too warm![:O][oops]

[FJ and G]

"I want the Lionel smell. It
reminds me of childhood."
----------------

John,

The smells of my childhood hand-me-down Lionel set that I recall most vividly is that of the engine overheating and of the 3-in-1 oil I used to lube the train and the steel tracks to keep the rust down (I ran it on the dirt floor of my basement and used to get shocked when touching the tracks).

Was a load of fun watching the sparks fly. I still love sparks..

dav

[Anonymous]

please accept my apologies for posting a link to another forum here, but i think the info and discussion in this thread deserves a little more attention and i didn't want to paste it all over and make a wicked long thread.

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=57660482&m=415104135

it seems to me that big smoke users especially should look into this.

[jkerklo]

I haven't tried the mineral oil in any trains. The only liquid smoke engine I have is an expensive RK Challenger that wouldn't run the last time I put it on the track.

I do have some postwar smoking cabooses (they take a liquid), but they don't smoke well with anything I have tried.

I did recall an article in one of the mags that said don't use "lamp oil," but I think that lamp oil is more like kerosene, that is petroleum based. I don't know what mineral oil is from, hence the previous question. Looked for the magazine article when this topic started, assuming it was what it was all about, but couldn't find it.

I am into postwar smokers. What I need is smoke pellets. After the article about them a while back I tried to interest a chemist friend to analyze some and make them, but no luck. $25 / bottle is a bit much for smoke, and the supply has to be running out. K-line smoke pellets aren't quite the same. I want the Lionel smell. It reminds me of childhood.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Anonymous]

i've always been better at reverse engineering![:D]

if this baby/mineral oil thing is true about choo-choo smoke. we could possibly kill the gravy train (pun intended) for the smoke fluid manufacturers.[:p]

[FJ and G]

John,

Did you use any in the locomotives?

So then, smoke fluid is mineral oil. Possibly diluted with distilled water? Any other additives?

At a few dollars a quart, that is a lot cheaper than "authorized" smoke fluid.

You could experiment in the other direction as well, by putting smoke fluid on the baby.

dav

[Anonymous]

dave,
me too. if you look at a bottle of babyoil or mineral oil the new ones have a warning that reads like a pack of cigarettes.

excerpt from a bottle of baby oil in our closet:
"drinking and accidental inhalation can cause serious injury or death. should any breathing problems occur consult a doctor immediately."

we have an old bottle with no child cap or warning and a new bottle WITH a child proof cap and a warning. somebody call Oprah!

[jkerklo]

I use mineral oil for sharpening knives.

I was looking for a sharpening fluid and found one (Buck Brothers, i think) that said "Contains pure mineral oil. Not harmful to people or the environment, or anything." I liked that very positive statement.

Not wanting to pay $4.00 for a couple of ounces, I went to the drug store and found a quart of "pure mineral oil" for a few dollars.

The mineral oil was sold as some kind of bowel lubricant, among other uses.

Baby oil is mineral oil with perfume.

Sorry about the earlier double post. When I tried to post the first one, I got a message that the post couldn't be made because "flood control had been activated. Try again later." So I did, and got two posts. Curious.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

woodsy,

I do find it interesting that smoke fluid has somehow escaped the scruitiny of the surgeon general. Perhaps they categorize it as a type of incense.

[jkerklo]

What, exactly, is mineral oil.

The question came up a while back and none of my references could answer the question.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com