MPC ROCKS!!!
We have a few MPC Lionel pieces, and I think the MPC era stuff is nice. I do have a 634 switcher I'm trying to unload though.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
If it's really an MPC 634, it's fairly collectible.
Rob
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
ADCX Rob wrote:If it's really an MPC 634, it's fairly collectible.Rob
It is.
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
According to the TM book, 634's are transition switchers where MPC used up remaining 634 postwar shells. 634's are easy to fake up by combining a postwar 634 shell with an 8010 chassis and trim. The Pennsy baby madisons are sharp and so are the Milw Road cars.
I got MPC fever a month ago for some reason when a CBQ SD-28 at a local show screamed at me from across the hall. I bought it, ran it, fell in love, and it sent me off on a buying spree. I was into MPC briefly in the early eighties when I first got into the hobby. But soon ditched it for postwar. I turn 50 this year and I think nostalgia has some to do with my recent fling. MPC was made when I was in grade and high school. I vividly remember the Johnny Cash commercials and had the 1971 poster catalog hanging on my bedroom wall. Local train stores carried MPC and I was awed by it. But, I couldn't afford it and settled for Athearn blue box HO (which is great stuff too).
The better engines such as geeps, Uboats, and SD's run decent. I think if you lubricate them properly and are careful not to bog them down to where the wheels hop, the nylon gears and rubber band wheels should last. Yes, MPC is great with graphics. Billboard cars especially. Some of the diesel schemes such as CNW, BN, and FEC are really sharp too. Lionel Fastrack really does a nice job complimenting MPC.
I agree on prices. I like the fact collectors hoarded a sea of MPC and kept it in near mint or mint condition. It's all over the place and the prices are attractive for much of it. The relatively common stuff costs about what quality HO costs.
I've bought several new-in-box MPC boxcars from the early 70's recently. Never paid more than $20, and the graphics are great. I'm an MPC fan. I buy New England roads, mostly. Maine Central, B&M, B&A, and New Haven.
I was a kid in the 70's and 80's, and my 1st. Lionel catalogs were the 1983 traditional and collector line. I dreamed over the items in those small catalogs for years! Fast forward to about 7 years ago. Making a little spending money, and started buying all those MPC items I had wanted as a kid. I think now I have about all the MPC I want, but there might be something that creeps up that I gotta have.
Probably due to the catalog thing, I have aquired about all the paper material ever printed during, or about the MPC-era. About a week ago I finished my "collection" of 5700 series weathered reefers, as I kinda collect the factory weathered Lionel stuff. Don't think I have ever paid more than $20.00 for a car. The FARR#1 set is one of my most prized items. I run the cars from this set almost daily, and have done so for about 5 years now.
MPC Lionel is a great "expansion" from the postwar Lionel era. Often overlooked, but fits in well with a semi-scale layout.
mpzpw3 wrote:The FARR#1 set is one of my most prized items. I run the cars from this set almost daily, and have done so for about 5 years now. MPC Lionel is a great "expansion" from the postwar Lionel era. Often overlooked, but fits in well with a semi-scale layout.
I've been eyeing the FARR 1 set as well as no 2 (UP). The Santa-Fe hudson is really sharp and so are all the cars in the set. What's really nice about the hudson is it's practically old school all the way with metal gears, magnetraction, and pullmore motor. The mighty sound of steam sounds rather funky. Another favorite is the Santa-Fe SD-40. The tone of blue they used is drop dead gorgeous.
I remember how MPC and Fundimensions went through the ceiling around the late 80's and early 90's. Especially the earlier Collector Line stuff. Then the bottom sort of fell out when MTH started importing Railking. MPC prices are much more reasonable today.
John,
I'ts about time you got bit by the MPC bug.
You are right about the prices,10-15 years ago a MPC 8100 N&W J would cost 1000.00.
Now you can get one for about 300.-400. bucks.
SCHWEEEEET!
I also like the Blue Comet,and The Alton Limited sets too.
Carl T.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
The debate over the MPC period will probably go on for a while. You either like it or you don't. BUT I have always disliked the broad swath criticism that the MPC stuff was all plastic crap. It's really an unfair generalization. YES, plastic was more dominant on MPC trains - but it was becomming more dominant in all manufactured products as that was the trend.
As mentioned above, MPC locos are actually pretty decent for the dollar and fairly easy to fix or improve or even modify. And no, I don't like the plastic truck rivets MPC used on rolling stock, but those are a breeze to replace. And I'd prefer an AAR or Timken truck to the Symington that MPC used, but when I'm running trains, I don't notice it all that much.
In response to the MPC is crap school of thought, under the subtitle of "bang for the buck" it would be far more justified to call many of today's advanced scale trains "crap, junk and garbage." We've all seen the countless threads how many of these new high end products fail to work straight out of the box, or how details are easily broken off, and how replacemernt parts are not available.
One thing for sure... the Lionel people at MPC were far more forward thinking than many give credit for. MPC did a lot of new tooling and many products introduced by MPC are still being made today. Really, the last big rash of newly tooled products that will work on 027 track and looks right for the traditional operator was done by MPC. Though to give credit where it is due, MTH also did aimned products at this market under the early Railking banner.
The roadname selection for Lionel under MPC is unequalled by either postwar Lionel or Lionel today. The only other company that comes close is MTH. MPC had good graphics and gave homage to many rail lines ignored in the past and still ignored today by Lionel.
MPC was quick to make products that reflected current railroading. When the formation Conrail was announced, Lionel quickly released products that reflected the lines going into Conrail, as well as making new Conrail products. And that happened at Lionel at the same time it was happening on the real rails. Today's Lionel has yet to ever do a starter set in Norfolk Southern or BNSF, two of the biggest railroads in the nation. The last affordable Lionel Conrail starter set was in 1993 and the last CSX one was in 1991.
Yep, I would absolutely agree... MPC rocks! It looks nice, is affordable, American made (mostly), easily repaired and improved, parts are readily available along with service, and with proper care, will run and operate as well as anything. I have plastic geared MPC locos that are still running fine after 35 years. There's value there that some of today's current products haven't lived up to.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
I too have been eyeing a few of these...I agree they run very well, as long as they are connected to like cars, or at least the PW cars are located in front of them. I tried to run these between PW items, only to have them yanked off the track in 'S' curves, because of their light weight. If you want to run long trains, these are the perfect choice!
I bought the Oppenheinmer boxcar a while back, and have really enjoyed it, and have been looking for additional weathered wood sided cars to go with it.
Did Lionel make any wood side cabooses to go with these cars?
Kurt
3railguy wrote:The Santa-Fe hudson is really sharp and so are all the cars in the set. What's really nice aboI've been eyeing the FARR 1 set as well as no 2 (UP). ut the hudson is it's practically old school all the way with metal gears, magnetraction, and pullmore motor.
The Santa-Fe hudson is really sharp and so are all the cars in the set. What's really nice aboI've been eyeing the FARR 1 set as well as no 2 (UP). ut the hudson is it's practically old school all the way with metal gears, magnetraction, and pullmore motor.
Be careful there, John. Some of those MPC Hudsons had a wheel problem that makes them wobble down the track like a duck.
brianel027 wrote: In response to the MPC is crap school of thought, under the subtitle of "bang for the buck" it would be far more justified to call many of today's advanced scale trains "crap, junk and garbage." We've all seen the countless threads how many of these new high end products fail to work straight out of the box, or how details are easily broken off, and how replacemernt parts are not available.One thing for sure... the Lionel people at MPC were far more forward thinking than many give credit for. MPC did a lot of new tooling and many products introduced by MPC are still being made today. Really, the last big rash of newly tooled products that will work on 027 track and looks right for the traditional operator was done by MPC.
One thing for sure... the Lionel people at MPC were far more forward thinking than many give credit for. MPC did a lot of new tooling and many products introduced by MPC are still being made today. Really, the last big rash of newly tooled products that will work on 027 track and looks right for the traditional operator was done by MPC.
Postwar collectors coined the term "Modern Plastic Crap" which like you say really isn't. "Fake-a-traction" was the term coined for the rubber band wheels. Back in the 60's and 70's, postwar Lionel was written off as plastic crap by prewar collectors who pretty much dominated the collector scene then. So, we've always had and always will have the debates. I like MPC for its graphics, simplicity, and ruggedness. Like just about anything, it has its weak points such as sloppy mechanical tolerances and nylon gears. They used a lot of artist liscence such as putting EMD trucks under GE diesels but that's what makes it funky and interchangeable. To me, a scale SD-40 looks rather comical on 036 curves but MPC's shortened version of the early eighties looks much better on small curves. Same goes for their SD-18's and 28's.
Thanks for the warning. I never heard that. Something to watch out for.
"I too have been eyeing a few of these...I agree they run very well, as long as they are connected to like cars, or at least the PW cars are located in front of them. I tried to run these between PW items, only to have them yanked off the track in 'S' curves, because of their light weight. If you want to run long trains, these are the perfect choice!"
Kurt, I assume you are talking about MPC rolling stock, and there is a solution. The number one problem for derailments on rolling stock is not the weight of the car, but the wobble caused by the loose truck mountings via the metal or plastic snap rivets.
Hold a train car in your hand, and grab the coupler and wobble it up and down and you will clearly see what I mean... this is your cause.
Think of it this way: on a real train the coupler is mounted to the car body itself, not the truck. So on our trains, where the coupler is mounted to the truck, if the truck has wobble, when you push those cars the force on those couplers is going to push the truck upward if there is play in the mounting - thus causing the derailment. This is also true for the "C" clip used to mount the postwar metal staple construction trucks. There was an article in CTT many moons ago about inserting a very thin washer between the top of the truck and the bottom of the car body, and then recrimping the "C" clip.
On the MPC or LTI cars, drill out the rivet and replace it with a 8-32 truss screw and a 8-32 lock nut. Tighten it all the way, and then loosen it enough so that the truck spins to and fro, but doesn't wobble. Trust me, THIS REALLY WORKS! 100% guaranteed. I've run 8 inch plastic MPC flat cars, no load on them with plastic trucks, pushing a 12 car train with all postwar trucks and have ZERO derailments. I just did this last night. I'm telling you my method absolutely works.
On cars like gondolas and flat cars, you can use a blackened buttom top or cap type screw that will require a small Allan Wrench, with the lock nut. The blackened screws look nice on cars where the screw is visable.
There are some other rolling stock specific causes for derailments, which are the wheel gauge (more a problem with the cheaper Asian knock-off fast angle wheel sets) and the shape and inner opening space inside the closed knuckle coupler. Industrial Rail cars suffer from this problem big time, espeically when backing up through 027 curves. The couplers bind, thus causing a derailment. Though it might not be as bad a problem on wider radius curves. Also the coupler shank is a good quarter inch longer than on Lionel or K-Line cars. Because of this and the way the trucks are mounted, I'm positive the Atlas versions of these cars have the identical problem.
Also John and Jim, I'm not a "big" steam engine operator, but I talk a lot to guys that do repairs... I can still listen and still learn. I've heard a couple guys speak of this similar trouble with some larger Lionel steamers, and it is fixed one of two ways: by the insertion of a washer over the axle, keeping the driver wheel aligned. Or by inserting the washer on the face of the wheel to align the driving steam rods. I don't remember which, but I know guys have fixed this problem so the engines run perfectly with no wobble.
I collect the 40' Hi-Cube boxcars, as well as the open autoracks, from the 70's. They are great trackers, lots of Fallen Flags to choose from, and look good with a consist of more scale proportioned equipment.
* Let you all in on a little secret: 78 VW Rabbits are the perfect fit for the autoracks.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
Fifedog,
I use Plasticville,and K-Line autos to fill my MPC auto racks,they work well also.
I think I might have met you at St. Denis station a year or two ago.(had my baby son in a stroller)
sir james I wrote:MPC and some dedicated older PW employees brought Lionel back from the dead.I have lived in the Lionel area since MPC went from model cars to toy trains and I can tell you there were many obstacles. They worked from old blueprints,went through crates looking for dies,anything that they could use to make a train. When they revived PW items that gave the collector a new source of parts and saved many a PW item from becoming a parts only peice.They had budget issues, if it cost to many $$ they were not made. Thats the reason the first MPC TM's did not have horns, they could do it but the budget said no. As for the wobble it still exists on the low cost items and if you watch close at slow speed you will see the wheel is off center on the axle.
Yes, tool searches were a huge deal at the Mt Clemens and tool making was a huge cost which is why they were so slow at coming out with new models. According to the TM history book, they spent $100,000 tooling the SD-18 truck frames.
Fife,
The trackwork,and signals are done and in service.(I miss the CPL's)
Earlier this week a new platform was put in on the Old Main side.
I hang out there a few times a week,usually after work in the evenings.
3railguy wrote: sir james I wrote:MPC and some dedicated older PW employees brought Lionel back from the dead.I have lived in the Lionel area since MPC went from model cars to toy trains and I can tell you there were many obstacles. They worked from old blueprints,went through crates looking for dies,anything that they could use to make a train. When they revived PW items that gave the collector a new source of parts and saved many a PW item from becoming a parts only peice.They had budget issues, if it cost to many $$ they were not made. Thats the reason the first MPC TM's did not have horns, they could do it but the budget said no. As for the wobble it still exists on the low cost items and if you watch close at slow speed you will see the wheel is off center on the axle.Yes, tool searches were a huge deal at the Mt Clemens and tool making was a huge cost which is why they were so slow at coming out with new models. According to the TM history book, they spent $100,000 tooling the SD-18 truck frames.
Thank you Sir James and John. Not to flog a dead horse, but there are some in this hobby who just don't understand this undeniable fact. Consider that 100 grand was a while ago, though probably done stateside. But even in China, development, research, design, tooling and making the final dies for an accurately proportioned and scale proportioned engine CAN cost half a million, one million or even more! Even the paint masks are costly considering the small runs of many higher end products.
I won't defend list prices for everyone. Take for example the $36 Lionel starter cars with plastic trucks and then compare to Atlas Industrial Rail or K-Lionel with die cast trucks. And those kinds of trains sell in quantity! Accurate detailed high end products, which don't sell in quantity and have new development costs ARE going to be expensive... even from China.
brianel027 wrote: Kurt, I assume you are talking about MPC rolling stock, and there is a solution. The number one problem for derailments on rolling stock is not the weight of the car, but the wobble caused by the loose truck mountings via the metal or plastic snap rivets.On the MPC or LTI cars, drill out the rivet and replace it with a 8-32 truss screw and a 8-32 lock nut. Tighten it all the way, and then loosen it enough so that the truck spins to and fro, but doesn't wobble. Trust me, THIS REALLY WORKS! 100% guaranteed.
On the MPC or LTI cars, drill out the rivet and replace it with a 8-32 truss screw and a 8-32 lock nut. Tighten it all the way, and then loosen it enough so that the truck spins to and fro, but doesn't wobble. Trust me, THIS REALLY WORKS! 100% guaranteed.
Thanks for the tip! This is exactly the cause! The front of the car rears up and off it goes. I installed modern sprung trucks on some of my more used models. I will give it a try!
"No childhood should be without a train!"
lionel2986 wrote:MPC era was from 1970-1985, right? What about 1986 and onward? Is that modern Lionel?
That is correct. MPC (General Mills) sold out to Richard Kughn in 85. Kughn also bought the Lionel name from the Lionel Corporation (General Mills was paying royalities for the name). It became Lionel Trains Incorporated or in short, the LTI era. Many collectors still refer to the MPC era as the beginning of the modern era.
MPC takes alot of flack for cheapening the product which they did in some ways. But, America had entered the throw away age and wasn't willing to spend serious cash on trains. MPC really had no choice in the matter. Either cheapen the product so it sells or do away with the company all together.
A lot of parts from the Lionel corpation made it to the MPC plant and got used up. This makes some interesting variations with early MPC such as the 634 switcher mentioned earlier or some ATSF boxcars. For even more trivia, MPC and LTI continued making track clips with the Ives Corporation stamped on them (Lionel bought Ives tooling back in the early 1900's).
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