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Lionel whistle tender...more noise than whistle!

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  • Member since
    December 2010
  • 36 posts
Posted by jsonova99 on Monday, October 3, 2011 7:34 AM

If I remove the brush plate, the commutator spins freely on the lower bushing, and I did manage to oil it with Lionel oil and a toothpick.  The problem I have is putting the brush plate on, even without brushes in place.  It seems like there is a misalignment causing the commutator to bind some when it spins.  Like I said in my last post, if you spin it manually one revolution, a little more than half the turn is free, and the rest is tight.  The problem is definitely in the top bushing.  I'm thinking about just getting a new brush plate to see if it gets any better. When i run as is, it makes a terrible grinding noise.  No signs of rubbing in the whistle box from the impeller.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • 36 posts
Posted by jsonova99 on Monday, October 3, 2011 6:35 AM

If I remove the brush plate, the commutator spins freely on the lower bushing, and I did manage to oil it with Lionel oil and a toothpick.  The problem I have is putting the brush plate on, even without brushes in place.  It seems like there is a misalignment causing the commutator to bind some when it spins.  Like I said in my last post, if you spin it manually one revolution, a little more than half the turn is free, and the rest is tight.  The problem is definitely in the top bushing.  I'm thinking about just getting a new brush plate to see if it gets any better. When i run as is, it makes a terrible grinding noise.  No signs of rubbing in the whistle box from the impeller.

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Posted by arkady on Sunday, October 2, 2011 10:22 PM

I'll second those who say that it's important to lubricate both bearings, not just the easily-accessible one.  But there's another possibility here.  I have a 2018 whose whistle was as the OP describes, more grinding racket than whistle sound.  After some experimentation, I finally discovered that the impeller had moved outward on its shaft -- only by a minute amount, but enough to bring it in contact with the whistle housing.  I pressed it back toward the motor (carefully, since it's made of rather brittle plastic), and all was well again.

No idea how it got that way in the first place.

 

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Posted by jsonova99 on Sunday, October 2, 2011 6:53 PM

I just bought a 2046, and had a similar problem where the motor is louder than the whistle.  What I did notice though is that when I turn the commutator with the brush plate in place (with or without brushes), it turns freely for about half a turn and the tightens up for the rest of the turn.  I cleaned the whole thing with mineral spirits including the brush plate which I guess is some sort of particle board, is it possible I warped the brush plate or has my motor just had it. Just bought so I don't know what it did prior unfortunately.  Trying to decide whether I should replace the motor or just buy a new brush plate.  Thanks in advance.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 18, 2008 9:59 AM
oil is the key and the place is the lower bushing. it is hard to get oil to it because it is kind of hidden. when you take the motor out of the whistle housing look closely into the motor at the bottom and you will see where the armature goes through the bushing. I use a bent toothpic with the tip bent to apply the oil to the propper spot. if you just try to oil the general area it won't get to the bushing, it will just lube parts that don't need lube.
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Posted by Jumijo on Monday, February 18, 2008 6:20 AM

A drop or 2 of oil down on the motor shaft will reduce or stop the coffee grinder noise. The spot to oil is way down where the shaft goes through the impeller. Also oil (only one drop) the top of the shaft, up on top of the brushplate. Cleaning the armature and brushes will make the whistle work better and at lower voltages. Follow Ben's suggestions.

Jim 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

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  • From: Frankfort, Kentucky
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Posted by ben10ben on Sunday, February 17, 2008 11:01 PM

Postwar whistles are often, at times, rather cantankerous.

A poor sounding whistle is often the result of a dry bearings, or lack of voltage getting to the whistle motor. It's also quite commonly a combination of the two. 

As you may know, postwar whistles are activated by something called a slugged relay, which will only close when DC voltage is present on the track. When the relay closes, it puts full track voltage to the motor. Sometimes, some sort of problem in the relay will keep the motor from getting full track voltage. If the motor doesn't get full voltage, it won't spin as fast as it needs to, and won't throw enough air into the whistle chamber to make a good whistle sound. 

There are, in general, three causes of this. 

1. Dirty or corroded relay contacts

2. Physically damaged relay contacts not touching each other well

3. Improperly operating transformer whistle controller(common with postwar transformers).

The first problem can be elimated by lightly sanding between the relay contacts with a piece of fine-grit sandpaper. The second can be checked by manually closing the relay with a screwdriver, and then bending the contacts as necessary to get good contact. The third can be checked with a known good tender, or, if you prefer, more quantitatively with a voltmeter set to DC volts. If you go this route, you should see about 3 volts of DC when the whistle control is first pressed, which drops down to about .5 when the control is pressed in all the way. 

The whistle motor is also often a problem. It should be treated like any locomotive motor, which includes proper lubrication and changing the brushes when necessary. I know you mention that you put a drop of oil on the armature bearing. This is good, but may not be quite enough. Since it was likely anticipated that the whistle motor wouldn't get the same sort of care as the locomotive motor, most of these whistle motors had a fairly large oil wick. It may take three or four good-sized drops of oil to fill this back up. I'd suggest trying at least another drop or two in the "v" shaped notch on the brush plate.

Oil will typically fix the coffee grinder sound that some motors make.

Finally, if you're only getting one whistle tone, or even none at all, there's another possibility. Sometimes, a spider or other bug will take up residence inside of the whistle chamber. This, of course, blocks the movement of air, and will make one of the two whistle tones not sound at all or sound very muffled. If this is the problem, the only real solution is trying to blast the booger out with compressed air. If it's a plastic chamber, you could always also try cleaning in warm water, however this may not work. 

Ben TCA 09-63474
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Lionel whistle tender...more noise than whistle!
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:23 PM

I've got my hands on a postwar lionel engine and tender with the whistle in it. It does whistle but sounds pretty awfull to boot. When the motor kicks on it sounds like things grinding up in there.

Now i've never heard one of these "fresh" from the factory so to speak so i have no idea what its truly supposed to sound like.

I've taken the body off the tender and nothings hitting anything while the armature/fan is spinning. I lightly lubed the bushings and that helped a tiny bit.

  

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