The whistle chamber may be plugged. Take off the motor and check for anything obstructing the air holes. Blow into the chamber and it should produce the proper tone.
The other more likely reason for no sound is that the motor is wired incorrectly and is turning backwards. Make sure the motor is turning in the proper direction, or no sound will be heard.
Larry
Yes, that's close. You're right-- there is an oil hole there. I thought the bearing was solid on the outside, but it had a bunch of carbon plugging up the hole. It's spinning fast now, but still no whistle- only the noise from the motor! I'm starting to think that there must be some defect in the actual whistle mechanism, even though I don't see any evidence of metal fatigue, etc. Perhaps I'll have to just switch it out with another whistle...
If your whistle looks like this (see rear view), then the bearing is pressed into the cover and is accessible to oil from the outside.
Thanks, the upper is simple enough, but I'm confused about the lower-- it appears that the shaft of the armature connects to the impeller first, so I can't get at the bearing without removing it somehow (wouldn't that stop the oil?). I think that oilite bearing is my problem, because it's obvious when turning it by hand that it isn't lubricated at all. My tender runs but doesn't actually produce a whistle, apparently because it isn't getting up to speed.
ADCX Rob Lionel1948 ... is there a specific parts breakdown document available so I know exactly WHERE to oil... Here is a diagram of the motor with the armature removed. Oil both ends of the armature where circled in red. The lower one will require a needle oiler down between two of the three poles of the armature.
Lionel1948 ... is there a specific parts breakdown document available so I know exactly WHERE to oil...
Here is a diagram of the motor with the armature removed. Oil both ends of the armature where circled in red. The lower one will require a needle oiler down between two of the three poles of the armature.
Could you please repost the oiling instructions again? I have a 2426w and even after cleaning it out it only makes a grinding sort of noise, no whistle at all... Not exactly sure where to oil it.
The brush plate shown above, the WS-143, was replaced by a improved brush plate with an Oilite bearing. I do not know when this change was made. The improvement was made to try and quite motor noise. The brush plate with the Oilite bearing does not have the felt or felt retainer on it. When the new design brush plate came out, the brush plate shown above was renumbered WS-143X. On several whistles I have had considerable armature shaft wear where the shaft comes through the brush plate. In one case the armature shaft measured 0.118". It should be 0.125". A 0.007 clearance on a little motor like this is huge and may contributed to motor noise. The brush plate with the Oilite bearing should eliminate this shaft wear. In the box I have for the WS-143 brush plates, I noticed that there are about twice as many new style plates compaired to the old style, so the new style must not be too hard to find.
Lionel1948... is there a specific parts breakdown document available so I know exactly WHERE to oil...
Rob
[quote user="Lionel1948"]Hi .. Question.. my 2426WX whistles fine when in nuetral but while the train is running forward its almost non existant .. while moving backwards i have a little better sound.. is there a specific parts breakdown document available so I know exactly WHERE to oil.. i don't really know where all the areas to oil are without it being pointed out.. Thanks so much!
My experience has been that, once you have things oiled and the brushes, wells and commutator cleaned, they generally run well and sound great. But after you put the shell back on, every little crank or rattle gets amplified within the shell to the point where you ask yourself if this is the same unit you just heard two minutes ago. Bottom line is, even when they're well maintained you're still going to get some of that coffee grinder sound in the background.
Remember, they're toys, not precision machines, and for the technology available when they were designed and manufactured they continue to perform pretty darned well.
Nicely done, Leverett. Those pics will help out alot of people.
Drafted these up just now-
hope that they can help you out.
https://plus.google.com/u/1/photos/117010549774908760023/album/6521418136314015361/6521418140952060338?authkey=CIP0iJ6Ygr6jVA&sqid=106493663450316256766&ssid=1428c8b1-eae4-4dde-b879-f9b69b5a178b
"Unless bought from a known and trusted dealer who can vouch otherwise, assume every train for sale requires servicing before use"
I followed your suggestion to run DC - the relais does close with 1.5V!
The relais' DC resistance is 2.4 Ohm
I did have it on the bench with the Lionel transformer and controller and never checked it on the tracks with the engine, as this is about 200miles from here (work) I will do that next week and report back - I'll have to get it going for the Holidays!
Happy Holidays
cwburfle While Lionel did make the 147 whistle controller, which used a "D" cell to operate the whistle/horn relay, today using a "D" battery this way is not recommended. Today's batteries are made differently than those of the 1960's. According to what I have read, there is a possibility (perhaps remote, but there none the less) of them exploding. The "Tips and Tricks for Toy Train Operators" must be a rather dated document. I've read old model railroading books that contained recommendations that asbestos be used to make scenery. Would you do that?
While Lionel did make the 147 whistle controller, which used a "D" cell to operate the whistle/horn relay, today using a "D" battery this way is not recommended. Today's batteries are made differently than those of the 1960's. According to what I have read, there is a possibility (perhaps remote, but there none the less) of them exploding.
The "Tips and Tricks for Toy Train Operators" must be a rather dated document. I've read old model railroading books that contained recommendations that asbestos be used to make scenery. Would you do that?
Hehe...I guess I should have added to my post that I hadn't done it myself because...I too am not sure I like the idea of throwing, relatively speaking, that much AC voltage and current through a sealed modern D cell. The book apparently isn't that old (published in 2000 according to Google). Perhaps the relative safety of the design is in the fact that one only holds down the whistle button for short periods of time - but that's purely speculative, and perhaps not a great comfort. It is one way, though, to easily and quickly determine if you've got problems with your whistle controller.
As for using asbestos to construct scenery, at least it was fireproof...
IT consultant by day, 3rd generation Lionel guy (raising a 3YO 4th generation Lionel Lil' Man) by night in the suburbs of the greatest city in the world - Chicago. Home of the ever-changing Illinois Concretus Ry.
Having just rebuilt my first whistle tender a few weeks ago
I've been repairing trains a little longer than that :)While Lionel did make the 147 whistle controller, which used a "D" cell to operate the whistle/horn relay, today using a "D" battery this way is not recommended. Today's batteries are made differently than those of the 1960's. According to what I have read, there is a possibility (perhaps remote, but there none the less) of them exploding.
Although I did not try it, I think you can pretty easily use that D battery in place of a whistle controller altogether. There are instructions for same in "Tips and Tricks for Toy Train Operators", which you can find a page or two of by searching Google with keywords "lionel test whistle d battery". I think it's essentially what Lionel did in the #147 Whistle Controller, although I've never actually seen one of those.
cwburfle Are you trying the whistle tender (relay) all by itself or with a train?
Are you trying the whistle tender (relay) all by itself or with a train?
Having just rebuilt my first whistle tender a few weeks ago, I second this recommendation. Once I had the whistle motor working correctly outside of the tender (definitely the first step), what I did was connect a "D" cell battery directly to the relay to supply the DC current necessary to actuate the relay and got that working reliably (turned out the contact needed a little cleaning and bending). Once I had that, I reinstalled everything and put it on the track - then (with track power off) connected the battery to the track itself to ensure the relay operated using the tender's wheels and collectors (you should hear it "click"). If these tests both work, you can move ahead with other troubleshooting as necessary.
Are you trying the whistle tender (relay) all by itself or with a train?I ask because the Lionel whistle control circuit requires a certain amount of load on the transformer in order for the whistle to blow. You may simply not have enough load. Or your transformer might need repair.
Same goes for a stand-alone whistle control.
Hi - I am new to this board and just read the useful list of suggestions in this discussion.
I can get the whistle to blow well if I 'help' the relais - mechanically that is. It does not have enough force to close the contacts except in a very narrow range of power setting, when pressing the whistle botton. Either on a modern Transformer or one a couple of the old whistle controllers. I remember it working MANY years back, but the train may have been sitting on a track for years before being packed up.
The whistle relais is all cleaned and I wonder what the DC resistance is supposed to be - could it have been burned out? I will check the DC level on the tracks when the controller is pressed, but it is consistent for several controllers
Thanks for any other leads - Wolfgang
Most Lionel whistle motors do not have a metal upper bearing, just a hole in the fiberboard. I use Labelle 106 grease on the upper "bearing" on these motors. I use a toothpick to carefully coat the inside of the hole, and put a little on the armature shaft. The lower bearing is Oilite. I use a medium weight oil there.
I recommend you use 5W-20 motor oil. It is cheap and never dries out. Don't use most greases, lithium grease, Lionel Lube, 3 in 1 oil, sewing machine oil, light machine oil, etc. I use motor oil for everything.
ben10ben I know you mention that you put a drop of oil on the armature bearing. This is good, but may not be quite enough. Since it was likely anticipated that the whistle motor wouldn't get the same sort of care as the locomotive motor, most of these whistle motors had a fairly large oil wick. It may take three or four good-sized drops of oil to fill this back up. I'd suggest trying at least another drop or two in the "v" shaped notch on the brush plate.
I know you mention that you put a drop of oil on the armature bearing. This is good, but may not be quite enough. Since it was likely anticipated that the whistle motor wouldn't get the same sort of care as the locomotive motor, most of these whistle motors had a fairly large oil wick. It may take three or four good-sized drops of oil to fill this back up. I'd suggest trying at least another drop or two in the "v" shaped notch on the brush plate.
Coming to this thread rather late, but after tinkering with the whistle in a #125 Whistle Station longer than I'd care to admit, I re-read your post carefully and tried a drop of oil directly on the armature shaft before replacing the plate. Bingo - no more coffee grinder sound. For about 10 seconds, and then it started again. So, I put a big drop on the top of the armature shaft through the plate. Things got a bit better for about 20 seconds. Another two or three drops over the period of a minute and it started to purr (well, at least as much as these little motors can). After another minute or two a little trace of oil started to emerge under the wick housing. No more grinder sound at all.
It appears that my attempt to not over-lubricate was a bit misguided - these things have long wicks that take quite a bit of oil to saturate. Appears that my initial efforts at oiling were simply refilling the wick and not lubricating the armature, and this was just not enough to overcome a whistle that probably hadn't had oil applied since the Truman administration. But your "three or four good-sized drops of oil" did the trick.
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I just obtained a 2426W type whistle- looks exactly the same as the one I see in that tender, sideways mount, metal base. However, it sounds more like a siren when I spin it with compressed air.
The impeller is white, and the metal base that is riveted on looks newer than the rest of the metals. Anyone come across this issue, and how is the whistle rendered usable again (as a whistle)? Thanks!
Ditto to what has been said to get a smoother, louder and clearer whistle sound.
I tended to five PostWar Lionel tenders and they all sound great, even the ones which did not need too much work.
Don't forget, these babies are LIONEL POST W.W. II units and for the most part they were made to last and take some abuse.
Ralph
Lube and cleaning the commutator and brushes usually fixes them for me.
The motor & impeller issues have been largely covered... two more things to do to get more "whistle" & less "grinder":
-carefully pull all foreign material out of the impeller - 40+-year-old dog & cat hair, threads, pine needles, etc.
-blow out the chambers with compressed air from a real compressor(canned won't cut it) to cut through spider webbing and debris in the chambers. Some may come out, but at least if you dislodge it fron the walls & passages, it will fall to the floor of the chamber and restore the whistle sound.
Try to resist disassembling the motor from the chamber unless as a last resort - the factory seals are still holding up quite well after all this time.
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