For those of you who have received what you paid for from this seller, congratulations. You should consider yourselves lucky.
I was not looking for a "deal." I paid $200 for what was presented as a $200 Williams Hudson with small problems that could easily be fixed. If I had received anything EVEN CLOSE to what was represented, I would have said nothing, having gotten what I paid for. In this case, I was sent junk and the seller refused to make even a partial refund. If this is not true, then why am I willing to sell the Hudson to anyone on this board for $100? Easy...it's not worth a dime more.
To those of you who have attacked my feedback rating, you apparently neglected to READ those feedbacks I left the "seller." In the case of mwinternetauctionsonmain, who has 114 negative feedbacks in the last year, I "won" 5 items and received NOTHING...ever. All were paid through Paypal and ALL 5 WERE REFUNDED TO ME. Of course, his 5 negative feedbacks to me remain. His 7,000 transactions versus my 144 gives him a major edge when calculating percentages. I decided to take the hits in order to expose his actions.
My post was for your benefit. What other possible motive could I have? If it had happened to you, would you have done any differently? I do not know this person but I'll never do business with him again. You are all free to decide for yourselves, of course. Remember, FIORGIONNE does NOT accept Paypal...a BIG red flag and a situation which leaves a buyer no recourse to retrieve his money.
Consider my original post an F.Y.I. or an "I told you so" in advance. Good luck
ADCX Rob wrote: -Not enough photos in ad, the one photo is too small to evaluate the condition.-Description is misleading/evasive/lacking in specific details, especially considering the tiny pic. -No 10 day inspection privilege extended.-Seller is in violation of Uniform Commercial Code.-Seller lacks liberal return policy. "RETURN"... not negotiate for a discount. Never negotiate... (just try that with L.L. Bean).-Buyer jumped the gun with this purchase - did not ask enough detailed questions before buying especially considering description is misleading/evasive/lacking in specific details, & the tiny pic.If the buyer is that dissatisfied, a full refund of all costs with return is the remedy. eBay will stand behind this. Seller gets back all FVF's & can re-list once for free.If there were 6 normal sized pics showing all deficiencies, this would never have happened.Now we have two unhappy parties to the sale. Rob
-Not enough photos in ad, the one photo is too small to evaluate the condition.
-Description is misleading/evasive/lacking in specific details, especially considering the tiny pic.
-No 10 day inspection privilege extended.
-Seller is in violation of Uniform Commercial Code.
-Seller lacks liberal return policy. "RETURN"... not negotiate for a discount. Never negotiate... (just try that with L.L. Bean).
-Buyer jumped the gun with this purchase - did not ask enough detailed questions before buying especially considering description is misleading/evasive/lacking in specific details, & the tiny pic.
If the buyer is that dissatisfied, a full refund of all costs with return is the remedy. eBay will stand behind this. Seller gets back all FVF's & can re-list once for free.
If there were 6 normal sized pics showing all deficiencies, this would never have happened.
Now we have two unhappy parties to the sale.
Rob
Rob,
I have second what you say! As I went to the ebay site as well and could not get the photo to enlarge, clicked on it four times to see it larger but just didn't happen. Hope that you all learn an important lesson here and that being EXAMINE the merchandise and ask questions, see the photos and use a credit card to purchase items with as you can dispute charges with your credit card company if you need to.
It is too vague for me to take sides here as not enough information is available. Let the buyer and seller dispute this rather than on here!
Lee F.
magicman710 wrote: rtraincollector wrote: With over 7000 feedback your going to run into someone that has a beef and to me if you come running here to cry about a deal that isn't what you thought you were getting I'm sorry your a first time poster as of this and morethan likely if I didn't state this it probally would of been close to your last other than a couple of times to respond to a few here about your deal that wasn't as grand as you thought or to keep the post at the top by making another comment so it would bounce to the top again.Whoa! You have talent! A 95 word sentence! Isnt that a record? (To bad there were a few run-ons) How did you manage to but correct punctuation in there?
rtraincollector wrote: With over 7000 feedback your going to run into someone that has a beef and to me if you come running here to cry about a deal that isn't what you thought you were getting I'm sorry your a first time poster as of this and morethan likely if I didn't state this it probally would of been close to your last other than a couple of times to respond to a few here about your deal that wasn't as grand as you thought or to keep the post at the top by making another comment so it would bounce to the top again.
With over 7000 feedback your going to run into someone that has a beef and to me if you come running here to cry about a deal that isn't what you thought you were getting I'm sorry your a first time poster as of this and morethan likely if I didn't state this it probally would of been close to your last other than a couple of times to respond to a few here about your deal that wasn't as grand as you thought or to keep the post at the top by making another comment so it would bounce to the top again.
Whoa! You have talent! A 95 word sentence! Isnt that a record? (To bad there were a few run-ons) How did you manage to but correct punctuation in there?
Now Now Grayson. Don't think we look at punctuation and spelling [especially me] here like your English teacher does. Think we are a little more relaxed and laid back. I think you even had typo.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
phillyreading,
Hold on a sec please, we are not here to make you mad, we are all just trying to figure out a few things here. Its not a question of who gets hanged or flogged! Like I said in my earlier post, EBAY is a wash. I mean really think about it for a minute. Leaving bad feedback is the last resort for most, but, sometimes it is better to hold off or just walk away than cross the line on feedback.
Like I said I personally have been on both sides of the fence as far as ebay goes. Its going to happen no matter how honest you are or how shaddy you are. I have over 500 on the feedback page all posotive, now if I left neg for the none payers, or the neg for the sellers that put the screws to me, I would have at least 12 neg against me. You really got to stop and think about how to handle this sometimes and just walk away.
Ebay is not like a LHS or a garage sale, you don't have the chance of really handling and looking at the products, so we enter the poker game then. Its taking a chance everytime you bid or everytime you sell items, thats all.
I just got a sweet deal from a buyer and a surprise when items came in the mail this week. I won 2 auctions by one seller. I aquired 11 Athearn BB freight cars for $26.00 with shipping. I got the items in the mail and low and behold, all in the original BB they came with. Had some couplers missing that the seller said were KD's, but what the heck! Was know sense in complaining since I got such a good deal.
As a seller once on my part I sold 3 huge lots of Athearn freight cars, brand new unbuilt. I ended up with one buyer buying them all. Everything went fine until he got the items. He waived the insurance, but claimed 5 of the cars were damaged and wanted half his money back. Hey wait a minute, I thought he just bought 40 BB Athearn cars and he wants half back? I did some math and figured I would return $35.00 to him wich figured 7 dollars a car with shipping, I thought that was fair. He rufused and wanted a full return of all money then, but insisted I send the money first. Well, me being the nice guy, I returned his money. About a month later I got 40 BB Athearn cars that had been completely destroyed with what looked like a size 10 shoe. I roported it to ebay, and moved on never hearing a word ever again. Yes, I came out on the short end of the stick. Should I have road this guy and dragged his name through the mud to get my money back? LOL! Doing this may make me feel better for the moment, but it will not put the change back in my pocket, but I learned something though! No money no items ever again!
Its like others have stated here, ask, determine, and bid with caution. You can spell the word "scam & honest", then spell it the other way! "honest & scam". They look the same both ways don't they? It pays to be selective, it pays to ask questions, and it pays to walk away. Good luck!
For those of you who seem to think that I am trying to take advantage of a seller and that my feedback rating is the result of MY bad business conduct (read my post above), I have a deal for you. If you honestly believe that the seller, Fiorgionne, is telling the truth, this is your big chance to buy a "$200 Williams BRASS Hudson" for $50 !! That's right, $50. !! I'll send you exactly what he sent to me. C'MON! If I really got a fair deal, you'd be getting a fantastic deal.......or maybe you're starting to think I might have a point?
How about it, rtraincollector? Ready to put your money where your mouth is?
How about your foot?
3rdRailer wrote: For those of you who seem to think that I am trying to take advantage of a seller and that my feedback rating is the result of MY bad business conduct (read my post above), I have a deal for you. If you honestly believe that the seller, Fiorgionne, is telling the truth, this is your big chance to buy a "$200 Williams BRASS Hudson" for $50 !! That's right, $50. !! I'll send you exactly what he sent to me. C'MON! If I really got a fair deal, you'd be getting a fantastic deal.......or maybe you're starting to think I might have a point? How about it, rtraincollector? Ready to put your money where your mouth is? How about your foot?
Only a fool would after you had it you make sure it wasn't worth $25.00 but in anycase sorry I'm not into your brass trains I'm sure now its in a lot worst shape than when he sent it but maybe not. I like the rest and I didn't wait to post just feel theres more here than is being told by either so thats something like the rest say is ebay supose to straighten out but they won't all they want is there money and in the long run there even raising that again there trying to candy coat it by saying there lowering the insert fee but look howmuch they raised the final fee again. So I'm about to give up on selling anything again on ebay . I've been burt also as a buyer but don't keep on and on about it theres a time to drop it and personally I think its time to drop it. or call 1-800-wah-wahh ext. boo hoo.
Okay enough with the smarty talk I sorry if you feel you got burnt and even if I bought it for $50.00 It still wouldn't make you feel better. But as others have said you need to ask questions we all do when were biidding or more and more of us are going to end up like you have and even if you ask doesn't mean you get a truthful answer either just to let you know I've as a seller have gotten negative with out even being asked a question about the product I sent recently I got it from a guy because a coupler was broke on a gondola that he got for $3.00 and it was an older 6262 in great shape just didn't sell but if he would have contacted me I would of sent him another as I had about 6 of them.
I got burnt as a buyer a few time myself and I have chalked it up as I should of asked questions. or for more pics. I got an engine in (guy had one pic and yes it was of the good side) the other side it looked like someone took a wood burning tool to and when I sent email about by dislike of his lack oih honesty I got a neg and no reply . You learn there out there. Its just most of us have had good experiences with Him. I look at it this way thou as much as he sells its hard to get all perfect description and he may of missed something major but thats something eitherr should be between you and him or you him and ebay but as I said earlier to my point oif view ebay is just for the money and don't back up there claim as part of safe harbor. its safe harbor for them and them only.
As for paypal I don't blame those who don't accept it as the cost ot accept it plus the cost of ebay selling and your not supose to be able to pass the cost on to the buyer so thats why so many charge a handling fee that makes ther shipping out of this world.
But as I said in the first post you main reason post again for you was to keep this post on the front page . I recommend for you is to take a pic of the engine and state whats wrong with it and put it up on ebay for $50.00 and see if it sells if it does you get some of your money back.
(Okay grayson I should be about 400 words or so by here have another smart remark) Or have you figured its time to grow up.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
Guys....
I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but... Look at how you all are acting, now I am not saying who is right or wrong but why do we need to argue? You had a bad deal on ebay...then don't use the seller! The way a lot of people have been acting is really making people question the forums community, which seemed to be great until a while ago. Please think before you post, and try not to fight.
Alex
alexweiihman wrote: Guys.... I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but... Look at how you all are acting, now I am not saying who is right or wrong but why do we need to argue? You had a bad deal on ebay...then don't use the seller! The way a lot of people have been acting is really making people question the forums community, which seemed to be great until a while ago. Please think before you post, and try not to fight. Alex
You are correct In fact I got carried away last night but was trying to tell mr 3rdrail its time to let it lie and move on sorry you got burnt and give him an idea how to get some of his money back since he wasn't happy with it.
And for mr Greyson I know hes a young man but why he even came in the other night with his smart remark I have no idea so I just threw that back at him sorry to you to Greyson.
rtraincollector wrote:As for paypal I don't blame those who don't accept it as the cost ot accept it plus the cost of ebay selling and your not supose to be able to pass the cost on to the buyer so thats why so many charge a handling fee that makes ther shipping out of this world.
What exactly is the point of selling an item if you cannot cover the cost of doing so?
ADCX Rob wrote: -Seller is in violation of Uniform Commercial Code.
What's the code, and what's the violation?
springoflife wrote: ADCX Rob wrote: -Seller is in violation of Uniform Commercial Code. What's the code, and what's the violation?
Seller is in violation of Article 2, Part 3 of the UCC.
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
1) Why wouldn't the seller accept PayPal? I won't buy from someone unless I can buy through Paypal, and I would NEVER send a check.
2) The photo is way to small in resolution. It would be hard to compare what you get with that photo. For someone that sells so much, I'd think they're offer up better photos than what I saw at that link.
3rdrailer did you send him a check? If so was it deposited? Does your bank send you copies of cleared checks? If so there is a potential recoarse for you that forgionnemay not like. If he did not endorse the check with a valid signature, then your bank can pull that check back, even after being deposited and cleared, basically yanking that money directly out of his account and back into yours. It's a little known secret in the banking industry.
So, If you get a check and deposit it, ALWAYS endorse it with your signature. You can't just write an account number and "for deposit" on it, or just leave it blank, and deposit it, because if you do it can still be pulled back out of your account.
I've done it before in my business and have heard of other people doing it as well. One case involved a guy building a log home. Had lumber shipped east from California, only to discover the lumber was in bad condition, not what was ordered. The builder had paid for the materials by check, the seller wouldn't accept a return of the lumber, wouldn't even negotiate a return, so the builder had the funds yanked back by his bank and the lumber was just left sitting.
If you were truely screwed by this sale, and forgionne refuses to accept a return, and he failed to properly endorse your check, then I'd suggest you mail back the train to him and have your funds pulled back.
RT, the implication of the winking smiley should have noted that the "smart remark" was intended as a joke and/or poking some fun. It was in no serious means to disparage your typing. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
"Lionel trains are the standard of the world" - Jousha Lionel Cowen
magicman710 wrote: RT, the implication of the winking smiley should have noted that the "smart remark" was intended as a joke and/or poking some fun. It was in no serious means to disparage your typing. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
No problem took you wrong . easy to do when not in person.
Mntneer: Just a comment on item #1. Perhaps it is the fee structure. The Seller pays E-Bay for the initial posting and a percentage of the sale price. Paypal also takes part of the sale price. Even though I have sold over 100 items on E-Bay, all with a positive feedback, I have discontinued accepting Paypal because of their fees. I would rather not have the sale than have to raise the s&h for my customer to cover the anticipated fees. (But that is just me)
traindaddy1 wrote:...I have discontinued accepting Paypal because of their fees. I would rather not have the sale than have to raise the s&h for my customer to cover the anticipated fees. (But that is just me)
...I have discontinued accepting Paypal because of their fees. I would rather not have the sale than have to raise the s&h for my customer to cover the anticipated fees. (But that is just me)
This position is the epitome of "Penny Wise & Pound Foolish".
traindaddy1 wrote:Mntneer: Just a comment on item #1. Perhaps it is the fee structure. The Seller pays E-Bay for the initial posting and a percentage of the sale price. Paypal also takes part of the sale price. Even though I have sold over 100 items on E-Bay, all with a positive feedback, I have discontinued accepting Paypal because of their fees. I would rather not have the sale than have to raise the s&h for my customer to cover the anticipated fees. (But that is just me)
Are the fees that bad? Granted, I've only ever sold one item, and only sold it for $20, but I barely noticed the fee on it. Is it a percentage of the transaction or a flat rate?
I just prefer having that layer of protection there, and just have trouble placing trust in someone via check. If I can't use a credit card to purchase, I just won't, no matter how good someone's feedback is.
i have kept track of what different things get bid up to, the same things, brand new things,,,, the guy that only takes paypal will not get bid up as high as someone that also takes other forms of payment or even not take paypal at all. not all the time, but most the time.
i will not use paypal as a buyer or seller, i tried it one time as a buyer, i paid for 3 different things i won, paypal took my money out of my account, but did not send it to the 3 sellers. i ended up sending money orders to all 3 sellers so i ended up paying for all three items twice. been 8 years and i still have not got my money back from paypal,,, never again will i use paypal.
For the number of people you reach on ebay, I think the fees are very reasonable. Paypal is now owned by ebay, but their prices are reasonable as well. If you open a store, you give away about 90% of your sales price and only get people from your local area to shop. Try an ad in the LA times and see what that costs, because of their high circulation.
I'm not defending ebay/paypal as much as complaining about the people that want everything slanted in their favor. Try paying for your dinner at a nice supper club with a credit card, only to have the owner tell you they don't accept credit or debit cards. You would be writing letters of complaint to the BBB.
2 cents
ADCX Rob wrote: traindaddy1 wrote: ...I have discontinued accepting Paypal because of their fees. I would rather not have the sale than have to raise the s&h for my customer to cover the anticipated fees. (But that is just me) This position is the epitome of "Penny Wise & Pound Foolish".Rob
traindaddy1 wrote: ...I have discontinued accepting Paypal because of their fees. I would rather not have the sale than have to raise the s&h for my customer to cover the anticipated fees. (But that is just me)
I have to agree. I don't even bid if the seller doesn't take paypal. I am not a big fan of theirs but I hate having to wait 2 weeks to recieve an item.
gvdobler wrote:For the number of people you reach on ebay, I think the fees are very reasonable. Paypal is now owned by ebay, but their prices are reasonable as well. If you open a store, you give away about 90% of your sales price and only get people from your local area to shop. Try an ad in the LA times and see what that costs, because of their high circulation.I'm not defending ebay/paypal as much as complaining about the people that want everything slanted in their favor. Try paying for your dinner at a nice supper club with a credit card, only to have the owner tell you they don't accept credit or debit cards. You would be writing letters of complaint to the BBB.2 cents
one of my LHS dont take credit cards at all. and in a way im glad they dont,, otherwize the wife would kill me when the bill came....lol
Mntneer wrote:I just prefer having that layer of protection there, and just have trouble placing trust in someone via check. If I can't use a credit card to purchase, I just won't, no matter how good someone's feedback is.
What would you feel about paying via cc, not paypal, just cc.? The reason I ask, is I am considering putting some stuff up for sale. But do not have a paypal account. (And don't really want one.) I do have cc processing capability thru my company. So kinda doing an informal survey. Would you purchase something that way??
Don
To all you guys:
"Touche" Thanks for your views. Now, lets get back to the trains!
ozzy wrote: i will not use paypal as a buyer or seller, i tried it one time as a buyer, i paid for 3 different things i won, paypal took my money out of my account, but did not send it to the 3 sellers. i ended up sending money orders to all 3 sellers so i ended up paying for all three items twice. been 8 years and i still have not got my money back from paypal,,, never again will i use paypal.
Not to be obtuse, but are you sure you entered the right payees? The plural of "anecdote" is not "data," but I've been using PayPal for years as a buyer and seller on eBay and for other reasons, and I've never had the least problem.
dbaker48 wrote: Mntneer wrote:I just prefer having that layer of protection there, and just have trouble placing trust in someone via check. If I can't use a credit card to purchase, I just won't, no matter how good someone's feedback is. What would you feel about paying via cc, not paypal, just cc.? The reason I ask, is I am considering putting some stuff up for sale. But do not have a paypal account. (And don't really want one.) I do have cc processing capability thru my company. So kinda doing an informal survey. Would you purchase something that way??
I probably would if there was a secure means to transmit the card information. I've already been hit once by someone that stole my wifes check card number (fortunately we got 100% of our money back), so I'm a little nervous these days about shopping online if there isn't some forms of protection.
To the person that had a bad experience with Paypal.... a lot changes in 8 years.
I have, on one or two occasions, made purchases through Ebay by credit card(or debit card, I should say, since I don't have and don't want a credit card).
In the cases where I did so, I called the person(in both cases a business) and read off the relevent information. This eliminates having to worry about e-mail, which really is not a safe way to transmit secure information like credit card numbers.
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