Watched a train video last night on layout operations, it was N scale. This guy had a lyout, rather nice but small. Anyway there were about4 guys operating trains on it, and they were simulating ACTUAL train operations. Now, these folks really seemed to be wound tight. Didn't look like fun to me.
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There were 4 guys running the layout. Which included a Yardmaster, Assistant and 2 guys running the trains. They had "Car Cards", which had to be filled out correctly, and verified. The information that is verified must be underlined or the train cannot run.
Once the train leaves the yard the engineer ACTUALLY calls on a telephone to report that the train left. Then as they go through each block, he must call report the transistion and time. He cannot proceede without confirmation.
The layout had these card boxes, that must have the card deposited in as the car moves by or the train completes a leg. Then there must be a receiving guy who records what time the train arrives and when the cars are left at there destination.
Another guy was running a commuter train, measuring accuracy to schedule, using a scale clock with surpressed time.
Stacking dominoes would have been more fun. After watching this video I went outside and crushed empty cardboard boxes for awhile, I was tense!!
I enjoy seeing how many engines I can control without collision. What difference does it make if a freight blows by a station at scale 260 smph? Or running an 027 engine with scale cars?
Don
dbaker48 wrote: I enjoy seeing how many engines I can control without collision. What difference does it make if a freight blows by a station at scale 260 smph? Or running an 027 engine with scale cars?
Don - LOL - this is why we call it "toy trains". For those of us that use the third rail - I think it provides extra stability when a freight blows by a station at a scale 260 mph.
Actually I do simulate real operations on my layout. The crews are on strike and there is dormant equipment stacked everywhere!
Regards, Roy
Let me think, hhhmmmmm. Now where do I see this kind of thing at least once a week. I'm sorry but these kinds of operations are to much like Work.
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Different strokes, and all that. Each gets enjoyment out of his own preferences. Some folks get a great deal of enjoyment out of these kinds of operations. Some don't even bother with scenery (sort of like some toy train operators). More power to them. What I don't tolerate are the folks who say that doing any other kind of running is beneath anyone's dignity. If I can respect their fun, they can respect mine.
I have said it before: "If it ain't 1:1 scale AND earning revenue, it's a TOY." Some folks enjoy recreating "miniature transportation systems" and disdain the term "layout," while others set up a cicrle of 2-rail tubular and run Hanfer clockwork trains all day, but both groups are playing with toys.
An example of a bone of contention among some: which track plan is more realistic, a circle or a point-to-point that winds gracefully along without tangent track? The answer is that neither is realistic except in narrow ways. Sure, very few real RRs are circular in layout, but it is equally true that very few RRs are only a fraction of a mile long (or at most a few miles long). Certainly, the UP or the Been Nuthin' since Frisco cannot be modeled accurately in any space smaller than a Texas county. The train running on the O27 circle at least gets to run for an extended period of time.
We can selectively compress and scale our clocks all we want, but no perfect replica in miniature exists. (Can you imagine trying to overhaul an N scale diesel engine?) The question is not whether to compromise reality but how much and for what ends. The result is a broad continuum of possible ways of enjoying the hobby, and no one is required to enjoy anyone else's way. But we do need to respect each other.
Heck, non-rail buffs think we're ALL goofy.
Actually, I have to agree that trying to simulate REAL railroad operations is too much like work.
I went to a couple of club meetings in my area, but everyone was too retentive about following rules for it to be any fun at all. I recognize that many people derive great satisfaction from the simulation of real train operations, but I can't count myself among them.
Having said that, I do perform a very simplified form of operations which IS fun. My sons and I have printed up little cards with the various destinations on the layout, and then we roll a die or dice to determine how many cars are needed (and sometimes which cargo -- for instance, the town demands more than one cargo). If you've ever heard of a game called London Cabbie -- which (oddly enough) simulates driving a taxi around central London -- it was our inspiration, with a little bit of Railroad Tycoon thown in for good measure. There's no time limit, just fun with swicthing, run-arounds, and so forth. But our version is focussed on FUN, not realism.
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palallin - Now don't get your undies all tied up. I too think that is there right, and hope they enjoy every escruciating minute of it. For those same reasons I'm glad there isn't only one kind of home to have. Different styles, types for desires, budgets etc.. But I still like to look and comment. Those same guys would look at my train "area" and have a heart attack. (I don't think laughing is in their repertoire.) Of course looking at the extremes is always interesting. I mean actually have a telephone system to call progress from one check point to another, that is something. On the other hand I couldn't image having "Car Cards" being included in the Polar Express set either. And yes, it also was suggested that the layout owner have "plenty" of decoupling tools all over the layout to accomodate the users. (Maybe that is to represent the Mighty Hand of God?)
Now don't go and take offense, I'm not ridiculing them, just marveling over the differences.
Set back, make some mental pictures of some of this and have a good chuckle. As I get my Mickey Mouse engine coupled up with my aquarium, mint, and pickle barrel, cars tootling through my plasticville village, and shoe box tunnels all on the floor. Calling the house phone from my cell phone reporting that I have passed the foot stool, and will be arriving at the recliner in 3 minutes and 14 seconds.
I gotta say that I do try to do some sort of operation on my layout. In fact that is the reason it is going to be torn down and rebuilt....to better simulate operations. That being said I use toy trains and do not want to have to paperwork and the lot when running my TOY trains. I just enjoy being able to swich cars and have some sort of purpose more then just trains running in a circle.
I like to have industries and make up a train in the yard and switch them. I am not into car rards or waybills or fastclocks.
But even on my current layout and to be added to the new one, there will be a few loops where i can just open them up if I want to. The people at the station had better watch out when the fast freight comes through at a scale 230 mph!
dbaker48 wrote:Another guy was running a commuter train, measuring accuracy to schedule, using a scale clock with surpressed time.
How do you surpress time? With a really big hammer?
Birds wrote: dbaker48 wrote: Another guy was running a commuter train, measuring accuracy to schedule, using a scale clock with surpressed time. How do you surpress time? With a really big hammer?
dbaker48 wrote: Another guy was running a commuter train, measuring accuracy to schedule, using a scale clock with surpressed time.
Usually using either Warp or Light Speed....
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
If they want to be that particular about a model train operation, maybe they should get a job on a real railroad?
Our trains go around in circles very fast. Like they should.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
I've found that a compromise works very well particularly when introducing kids to trains. I have the layout set up so I can do either the endless runaround or switching and operations - which one I do depends on my mood. When I show off the layout I do the usual thing with respect to audience expectation - fire it up and let the trains loop. After running awhile in this mode I'll bring the trains to a stop and tell the kids a little bit about the way the real railroads run and then I'll swtich some operating cars in and out of some trackside industries.
The reaction to just simple switching and remote uncoupling/coupling moves is far more than you might think. When you combine this with operating cars (unload the milk car, dump the logs and run them through the lumber mill, load the gondoa with the barrel loader, etc. ) and then a simple shuffling of the deck I've found kids will sit and watch moves of this kind for hours on end. I've also found that both kids and adults come away with an understanding of why I like the hobby so much. One comment I have heard, time and again, from both adults and kids is "Gee, I didn't know you could do stuff like that with trains. I thought all they did was run around in circles."
Or that 12 ft tall 'scale' gateman that pops out whenever a train passes...
I am kind of in awe of these guys. I enjoyed reading Tony Koester's operations book as well as that Playing With Trains book that had a different take on working with this level of operating detail, as well as reading about these op sessions. CTT has featured a few vastly more 'realistic' layouts recently too. In my current layout, I added interchange tracks, a yard and a few sidings to drop off or pick up wagons. But no fast clocks, time-tables or scale speed. To paraphrase Palallin, to each his own - and as Sir Hatt reminds me - all this can cause confusion and delay.
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Ironically, operating accessories are anathema to these folks: too toy-like. Operating accessories are another example of the realism inherent in the so-called toy side of the hobby. Which is more realistic: cars that actually dump their loads and industries that actually load cars (though not entirely scale in dimension of detail) or dummy cars and buildings that do nothing but sit for some amount of time to "simulate" loading and unloading (though very prrecise in their dimensions and detail)?
In some circles, smoke is still considered "toy."
palallin wrote: ...Been Nuthin' since Frisco ...
...Been Nuthin' since Frisco ...
I don't mean to digress, but that is the first time I have seen BNSF referred to that way. Is that a common reference? If so, what does it mean?
Regards,
John
Even as a kid I would be "simulating" RR operations. I had an operating barrel car and I would load the car up and after a bunch of loops around my track the train would arrive at its destination and the barrels would be unloaded. When you are a kid, your imagination fills in a lot of the gaps, but you still feel like you are running a real train.
As an adult, I would say that not much has changed.
Jumijo wrote: If they want to be that anal retentive about a model train operation, maybe they should get a job on a real railroad?Our trains go around in circles very fast. Like they should.Jim
If they want to be that anal retentive about a model train operation, maybe they should get a job on a real railroad?
Just a little harsh. Each to his own. If that is what makes their world go around, OK. I don't let them fly as fast as I use too. Looks better moving at slower speeds.
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I don't care how fancy of layout you have, none of us come close to simuilating actual railroad operatons on our layouts. Until someone says that he is using TNT to daylight a tunnel on his layout or the has a rock fence that can detect a slide which automatically changes the signals to red, I rest my case.
In fact, does anyone run a wheel greaser or hot box detector on their layouts?
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When I was in VA there was a guy in the train club that had a stack of cards which told him what he had to do each run but no he didn't have 4 or 5 guys there calling each other on phones to report and get clearence. you did have to (by his cards) to drop off this car or that car and other things but not to the exstent your talking about or I don't believe.
We also had guys that had to run there trains per scale speed and no more and had limits on there layouts that they followed as to top speed for this section like 45 and the train would craw thru there lol.
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cnw1995 wrote:Though, man, they sure are embracing sound. It's neat to see what can be done in such small scales.
hopper wrote:Let's face it. The guys that read "model railroader are the artist thjat paint the"Mona Lisa." We at CTT.,are still drawing stick figures. Hopper
Nonsense. The value of the work is not a product of scale fidelity.
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