Set 1721 R - B&O Freight set of 1936
So I have finally been able to answer a question that I have always suspected, but could never prove. The question is "How was American Flyer Mfg. packaging (wrapping) their trains in the late Chicago era. Specifically, I wondered if their freight cars came in individual boxes or were wrapped in paper? I knew that the 6 inch cars, both passenger and freight, often were wrapped in paper or were found in cardboard sleeves with the engines typically having their own individual boxes. The larger, deluxe streamliners always came with individual boxes for the cars. My question really stemmed from the fact that if one were to put individual boxes for freight cars into the set boxes, they would not all fit in the set box.
Today, I am able to satisfactorily answer that question, the 9 inch freight cars came wrapped in paper. I purchased a very complete set 1721 R from 1936 and when it came, the cars were wrapped in brown paper, with the paper having tape on it, from taping the paper around the car. That in itself, was only a clue and in looking over the paper, I was able to find the car numbers for the log car, sand car, and caboose all rubber stamped on the pieces of paper. I suspect the paper for the box car is not original and I did not get original paper with the tender either.
As I indicated, the set was very complete, down to the original 3-in-1 oil sample bottle, wrapped in the the 3-in-1 American Flyer instructions.
Here are photos of the set, note I did not take pictures of the box, but it was very nice.
The set is a bit dirty at the present time and needs new drive wheels on the engine, but that will have to wait.
As an added bonus the set came with a tank car, that must have been a separate sale item purchased by the previous owner.
NWL
One more thought on this. I was talking with a good friend of mine about finding the wrapping paper for these cars. He agreed with me that finding the wrapping paper was important, as he had always suspected the later items were wrapped too.
His last thought mirrors another theory of mine, that the track with these late sets had to have been packed in separate boxes, as it would not fit in most of the set boxes with these sets and that American Flyer would not have wanted the cars to be scratched by the track during shipping.
I have long suspected that the track was packaged separately just because some of the set boxes are too small to fit track in them.
I know that the 1934 Aluminum Zephyrs were packaged in 2 diffferent ways, one set box is larger and accomodates both track and transformer and one set box is smaller and only fits the engine and cars.
..... The British are Coming!
1926 was the United States' sesquicentennial and American Flyer noted the United States' history in several ways. 1926 was the first year that the majority of American Flyer sets began having set names. Prior to 1926, the only set I can find with a name was the Twentieth Century Limited, the top of the line O gauge set with the 3020 engine and illini/columbia cars.
However, in 1926, American Flyer used such names as: President's Special, Sesqui-Centennial, All American Limited for wide gauge sets and names like: The Suburban, Capitol Limited, Broadway Limited, Rocky Mountain Special, Washington Special, Senatorial Limited, Jeffersonian Limited for the electric o gauge line.
The naming of sets continues throughout the remainder of American Flyer O gauge production and the windup sets were given names in 1927.
Flyer had also been naming cars for some time, with Illini, Seattle, Chicago being lithographed on to cars as early as 1922. In 1926 the standard gauge cars had names such as Valley Forge, Washington, America, and Pleasant View.
In 1927, the trend of naming cars continued and The Oriental Limited set had car names such as Paul Revere and Lexington.
The British Are Coming, One if by Land.....
Those are beautiful!
Paul Revere - The Oriental Limited set of 1927 was updated for 1928 and its name was changed to "The Oriental"
The set lithography was similar but not exactly the same. Below is the full 1927 Oriental Limited set.
Engine 3012, baggage, Paul Revere coach, and Lexington Observation
Changes for 1928, include new car frames and truck frames, blue litho doors and window frames, and the engine lithography changing slightly and the body now featuring a roof mounted headlight and 2 brass plates per side. Even the style of the brass plates changed for 1928 to have black enamel backgrounds with raised brass lettering, instead of brass backgrounds with stamped lettering.
....The British are Coming...One if by Land....Two if by Sea.....
Three if by Rail?
American Flyer began offering trains for specific non-american markets around 1915-1916 with the introduction of Imperial Limited and Continental Flyer roadnames that were directed toward the Canadian market. There is also a Yankee Flyer coach that was offered c. 1916, possibly also for the Canadian Market. The Dominion Flyer roadname, also offered specifically for the Canadian Market, appeared in the 1920s. These trains are featured in several Canadian retail catalogs, including Eaton's and Hudson Bay Company.
British Flyer was manufactured and sold in the British Market c. 1920 to 1923. British Flyer was advertised by Gamages department store of London in the early 1920s. The locomotive designs are unique to the English market and are tough to find.
Below is a British Flyer Great Northern Railway (GNR) tank locomotive. It has been reported that these locomotives were originally painted black and did not sell well due to the real engines being painted green. Some of the engines were repainted green, in order to help sales. The engine pictured below is one of the repainted green engines. The black paint is clearly visible underneath the green paint in areas with heavy wear or chipping.
One other item to note, is that actual English tank locomotives would not have come with a tender. American Flyer reportedly sold these sets with 120 numbered tenders. Although both of my British Flyer engines came to me without tenders, I suspect they had them at one time, because the couplers that are normally found on cars would not have coupled to the cast iron post found on the engines.
The engine pictured above would have came with 1107/1108 size cars that were lithographed special for the British Market. Additionally, the roofs on these smaller cars featured a rounded shape, like actual rolling stock found in the British Market.
So, the British Flyer trains were here and gone by the time the Sesquicentennial came around.
I think AF were trying to reproduce this locomotive:
http://www.lner.info/locos/N/n1.php
The inverted "U"shaped steam pipe (reproduced on the right side of the model) directed steam into the water tanks for operation on underground lines in London, where Gamages was located.
M636C
More British Flyer...
The largest engine offered for the British Market was the George V 2663 locomotive. This too was modeled after a real George V 2663 engine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locomotives_of_the_London_and_North_Western_Railway#/media/File:LNWR_locomotive_No._2663_George_the_Fifth.jpg
The engine also has L & NWR cast into the boiler, which is for the London & North Western Railway. The L & NWR operated from 1846 to 1922. In 1923 it became the London, Midland, & Scottish railway or LMS.
The British Flyer set came in various configurations with 6 inch litho passenger cars. The cars came on both 4 or 8 wheel frames, with both a coach and baggage car being produced. The brown with white/cream trim must have been a British livery color, as I have seen Hornby trains in a nearly identical color scheme.
There is a 3rd British Flyer locomotive, which I do not have and cannot show pictures of. I have seen one and it is slightly smaller than the George V locomotive pictured above, but in the same style. The engine is not labeled George V.
The brown and cream colours belonged to day parlour cars of the British Pullman Company. This was not associated with the USA Pullman Company but was associated with the European "Wagon-Lits" company, that also ran day parlour cars lettered "Pullman".
The original cars were built in Chicago and were Maroon. Later cars were built in England and were Brown (called Umber) and cream. The Brown and cream was used from 1900 until around 1970 when the few surviving cars were painted blue and grey.
British Pullman cars are very popular models because they were used all over the country and were the most luxurious cars in general use. The present Queen often used a Pullman car to travel to horse races for which she trained her own horses.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=British+Pullman+Cars&qpvt=British+Pullman+Cars&qpvt=British+Pullman+Cars&qpvt=British+Pullman+Cars&FORM=IGRE
Unlike the AF model they did not carry lettering for the railway operating them.
Another error was the "George V" locomotive which had only inside cylinders but AF applied outside cylinders to the model.
M636C The brown and cream colours belonged to day parlour cars of the British Pullman Company. This was not associated with the USA Pullman Company but was associated with the European "Wagon-Lits" company, that also ran day parlour cars lettered "Pullman". The original cars were built in Chicago and were Maroon. Later cars were built in England and were Brown (called Umber) and cream. The Brown and cream was used from 1900 until around 1970 when the few surviving cars were painted blue and grey. British Pullman cars are very popular models because they were used all over the country and were the most luxurious cars in general use. The present Queen often used a Pullman car to travel to horse races for which she trained her own horses. http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=British+Pullman+Cars&qpvt=British+Pullman+Cars&qpvt=British+Pullman+Cars&qpvt=British+Pullman+Cars&FORM=IGRE Unlike the AF model they did not carry lettering for the railway operating them. Another error was the "George V" locomotive which had only inside cylinders but AF applied outside cylinders to the model. M636C
Thanks for the info. I wondered about the Pullman lettering and did not know it was common in England. I should have guessed as the Hornby cars are also lettered Pullman.
I picked this up last weekend at out local antique mall for $6. My first O Gauge Flyer. Missing a set of wheels and the brake wheel. Haven't had a chance to look for a parts supplier, is there a go to place for Flyer? I usually deal with Jeff Kane for my Lionels.
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
LL675 I picked this up last weekend at out local antique mall for $6. My first O Gauge Flyer. Missing a set of wheels and the brake wheel. Haven't had a chance to look for a parts supplier, is there a go to place for Flyer? I usually deal with Jeff Kane for my Lionels.
All I have to say, is nice one! I usually can never get my hands on nice flyer, especially not here. I wonder if you'll get the addiction, too?
LL675,
Based on the trucks on your example of the 3208 Boxcar (which from what I can see are Type VII) your car is from the 1930-1932 time frame. It looks like the one truck is missing a brass jounral box too. The car had either one or two brakewheels. The brakewheel supports were spot welded on the ends.
I have the same car in my collection and it only has one brakewheel.
I did a quick Google check for parts. Trickle has always had prewar American Flyer parts but I am not sure that he has an website. I did a quick check of Hennings Trains and they have a nice assortment of parts.
https://henningstrains.lightspeedwebstore.com/search/results?q=American%20Flyer%20Parts
You can always watch ebay for the parts you need, they show up from time to time, or you could buy a doner car to replace your missing parts.
You picked up a nice example of the 3208. I like the variations that have the brass identification tags. And welcome to the world of Prewar American Flyer Trains. I have a feeling you will be adding more examples.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
thanks for the info Northwoods! I replaced the missing journal with a Lionel...identical, just not brass. I'll take a look at Hennings. Mine looks tohave only had one brakewheel. I'm sure there will be more o Gauge Flyer. I worked midnight last night, and I was trying to think where in my already cramed basement where I can put more shelves for the comming addiction.
As for parts, junkers/donor cars are a good source of parts. Unfortunately, my understanding is that the Trickel's no longer answer their phones and they have not had a website with any useful information.
I can say that the Trickel's have not been to the TCA show at York for the past 2 years, but have been delivering a limited number of cast parts to the gentleman who shared the booth with them in the Orange Hall. Essentially, I would not rely or count on getting any cast parts from the Trickel's going forward, unless you go to York and shop from the person who shared the space with them. However, that being said, given their past performance over the last 2 years, I am not sure that is even a long-term solution.
Trivia Question #21
Where will you find this? What is the number of the item(s) you will find it on?
I would have to guess the 102 Central Station or 105 Terminal Station or 110 Union Station.
Good Guesses NWL. The script is used on those items as well. But this comes from something else. Anyone else want to offer a guess before I give a clue (which will most likely give it away)?
Northwoods Flyer Good Guesses NWL. The script is used on those items as well. But this comes from something else. Anyone else want to offer a guess before I give a clue (which will most likely give it away)? Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
Next guess 4010 Standard gauge tank car?
One of the wooden bridges? Sorry not familiar with the numbers.
Very good everyone, but I think its time for another clue. This should make it much easier.
It is some sort of contoller, either for remote switches or for the large track control semaphore. Don't have any, so I can't say exactly what they go to.
Great guesses everyone. I had to go look at all of the pieces that you folks listed and the brass on black "American Flyer" appears on all of them. The piece that I had in mind is the Model #4180 dual switch controller. I'm fairly certain it was intended to go with the Wide Gauge Switches.
This piece has always fascinated me because it has the wiring diagram for a small layout right on the controller. I can just see it matched up with a set of switches that have the orange housing over the switch mechanism and the dark green shroud over the lights.
Trivia Question#22
What is this? Where will you find it? What is the number of the item(s) you will find it on?
Hmmmm, just a little fuzzy, but I think you can see it well enough.
A copper eyelet used to join two or more pieces together. One place you can find it is on the 4023 standard gauge log car side rail.
strainst
Personally, it is such a vague item that it could be on anything and is not worth making a guess on what the eyelet is even on.
These quizzes have become so vague that they have lost their fun and lost my interest.
Nice work stainst,
You definitely know your Wide Gauge trains.
The rivit holds the side rail to the stakes on the 4023 Lumber car and the 4022 Machinery Car
Trivia Question #23
This set appears in the American Flyer Catalog for several years.
What year does it appear in this configuration? What is the name of the set? For extra credit: What is the number of the set?
Ok, I'll bite. The set as it appears in the photo, is from 1937 and is numbered No.1735 on page 8 of the catalog and is called the B & O passenger. In 1936 a very similar set is shown on page 5 as set 1720-R, BUT the 1936 set is shown with a 3199 common coal tender and appears to have the Aeolus plated coaches with the rounded end pieces attached although the description states that the cars are "finished in full enamel with brass trim. (Color subject to change.)" and called the B & O passenger as well. Also at the top of the page, the tender is illustrated as a Vanderbilt type. In 1935 the set appears as it did in '36 but the cars were described as having a "silvery finish" and "close coupled vestibules", and is set 1326-RCT YUKON on page 9. From the catalogues.
We have a winner! Nicely done vintageflyer.
The set pictured above is as it appears in the 1937 catalog illustration. And you did a great job of identifying the similar sets pictured other years.
Somewhere back on the thread I did a post about Wide/Low profile cars and how Flyer made changes to them and this set through a number of years. When I have some time I will have to go back and find it and post a link to it.
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