Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[mersenne6]

A tale of two coaches

   A few years ago I purchased an unboxed but like new AF set from the 1910-1914 period.  It looked much like the contents of the M0 set shown in the 1914 catalog except that it had a 4 window Chicago car.  For want of an actual set name I settled on calling it an M0 set.  A few months later I was looking at the set on my shelf and I suddenly realized that the 4 window Chicago car had a Type III frame and not a Type II.

 

  None of the references I had indicated the 4 window Chicago car had ever been offered with a Type III frame.  A close examination of the car did not suggest any tampering and the condition was/is such that it seemed very unlikely that someone would have taken apart what would have had to have been two like new cars (a Chicago 4 window and an AF#102) and put them back together with different frames.  The Greenberg reference indicated the Type III frame was introduced in 1914 but that it might have appeared somewhat earlier.

 Since I couldn't find any reference to this combination of coach body and frame I wasn't sure if I had a real variation or not and there the matter rested for a few years.  About 2 weeks ago the car below showed up on E-bay and I was able to purchase it.

  As you can see, it is the same build.  Thus it would seem that once again we have an example of Flyer using up old inventory.  In this case it would appear Flyer ran out of Type II frames before they ran out of 4 window Chicago coach bodies and the end result is another interesting Flyer variation.

[Nationwidelines]

Mersenne6,

I have actually owned (but since sold) both a red litho and a green litho car similar to the ones you have.  These cars apparently date to approximately 1914, as that is when the type III frame was supposedly introduced (as it was first shown in the 1914 catalog on the 102 and 1107/1108 cars).  I know that all of the 102 cars have the type 3 frame and essentially feature that same 4 window body style as the Chicago 4 window cars. 

I have also seen the type III frame on the early tank car with wooden tank, which is also known to come on a type II frame.

NWL

[Northwoods Flyer]

Great postings folks.  Thanks for sharing your photos and your knowledge. 

I did a presentation on Pre War American Flyer Trains back in November of 2014 for the Marathon County Historical Society.  

The presentation was recorded and I just discovered that there are two very brief videos of two of my sets running on their Facebook page.   This is a link to the page:  https://www.facebook.com/MarathonCountyHistory  I hope it works

Someday I am going to learn how to post  my own videos  - first I need a better camera 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[mersenne6]

 

 

Mr. Morris’s Many Moving Messages

  Morris & Company advertised themselves as packers and provisioners with branches in all principal cities. Their brand name was Morris Supreme Foods and their ads listed ham, bacon, butter, margarine, canned meats, eggs, cheese, and specialties.  An ad from The Ladies Home Journal for 1922 touts Supreme Bacon and Eggs and mentions “the Morris Supreme yellow and black label is always a safe guide.”  A roster list of railroad cars published in the 1920’s indicates Morris and Company had a fleet of refrigerator cars.

 

  So, courtesy of the internet and some searches I’ve been able to confirm everything about the American Flyer Morris refrigerator cars – brand name, items sold, the black, yellow, red, and white Morris label – everything except the look of the actual prototype cars.

 

  As I mentioned in a post back on page 6 Flyer made six different lithographed Morris refrigerator car sides which advertised 1) Supreme Canned Goods & Specialties, 2) Supreme Large Fancy Eggs, 3) Supreme Hams & Bacon, 4) Supreme Marigold Oleomargarine, 5) Supreme Fancy Creamery Butter, and 6) Supreme Full Cream Cheese.  Flyer delivered punched and formed sides in containers to the assembly line where workers pulled out random sides and assembled them into car bodies.  As a result you can have a car with a different ad on each side or a car with the same ad on both sides.  As I also mentioned in the previous post, if you were lucky you could collect the six sides in as few as three cars. 

 

  I’ve been hunting for all six sides for some time and I finally found a car with the 6^th side (note: the update of the post on page 6 includes the 6th side as well as the Nation Wide reefer - Jul 2021).  I didn’t do it in three cars but, as you can see from the side A and side B pictures below,I did manage to do it in 4 (I have one car with the same ad on both sides – Oleomargarine, and I have 2 with Cream Cheese on the opposite sides). 

 

A Side

 

 

B Side

 

 

  The cars themselves can be found with Type III and Type V frames, five panel, six panel, and solid painted doors and black, orange, and green roofs – the last two roof colors being ribbed.

 

   The Side A and Side B pictures of the Atlas reefers in the pictures below demonstrates that asymmetrical advertising on refrigerator car sides was prototypically correct. 

 

Side A

 

 

 

 

Side B

 

 

 

  If Flyer’s lithography is a reasonable representation of the Morris cars then what we have is two for the price of one – an approximation of a real car and the only toy train representation of which I’m aware that highlights the practice of asymmetrical advertising.  Also, if the Flyer cars are representations of the actual Morris cars it would suggest the real cars had more of the look of the Atlas Crisco car with what would amount to a simple change in product description or type between Side A and Side B as opposed to the Cudahy reefer with completely different looking sides.

 

...as for the title of this post – Well, Morris put many messages about their products on the sides of refrigerator cars and the cars did move around the country …so the messages were obviously moving .

[rack776]

Wow! This is a great thread!

 Hi, my name is Jason and I am new to collecting prewar American Flyer I have a few questions about a prewar AF engine I have recently found.
(Uh...that kind of sounds like a 12 step counseling or self help class introduction right?...not to far off with train collecting I guess!)
 
 I figured first I'd say Hi and give a quick back story to how I ended up in this part of the hobby for now and get it out of the way.
I'll post my engine photos and questions in another post soon.

 I started out getting my Fathers 1947 Lionel set to run again and then on to restoring & collecting postwar Lionel from the late 1940s to the mid 1950s.
Boy oh boy did I get spoiled with tons of free Lionel information, repair manuals, used parts, reproduction parts....

 The AF bug has started at an antiques mall with an a "cheap parts engine" to fix up. A #423 from about 1939
I had figured American Flyer is as popular as Lionel and I could get parts for it, well not so much as I have quickly found out.
It has a good boiler shell and axel bushings and some brass & copper trim and not much else. I really still want to try and save it some day.

 
 While looking at a train show for another "junk spare parts engine" to fix my "junk" #423 I found an entire prewar AF "train set" or so I thought.....

This is how it happens, you start with one orphan AF item and find some other mismatched items and before you know it you have 2 or 3 "incomplete" sets that you are looking for parts for to try and save from the junk box.

The bug hit me so bad I recently learned of Model Engineering Works reproduction parts...and then found out about them closing in the same week, but I'm still here, I figure I can always buy a lathe or drill press and make my own missing parts if I have to. I'm pretty mechanically inclined.

I have read & researched this entire CTT thread a few times to try figure out what mixed up "set" I have bought. I hope to take some photos and
post my questions some time over the weekend. 

My engine in question has shown up listed as a 3315, 1688, and #10 erector set locomotive, it has large drive wheels and the moveable field reverse unit, best I can figure is it is from 1935-1937.

Can anyone share a catalog photo of what kind of set it would have been part of?
I have a bunch of images from the 1938 10 1/2" erector set instructions I will post soon for now here are some old internet auction photo of an engine that is very close to mine.  I'll post photos of mine soon.

-Jason Rackawack

PS I could not get the photos on my Flickr account to embed in the posts so I will post them as a link that will go to back my photo site just click them for the full size images. If anyone has a fix for this let me know.

 

Here is the Erector Set Pages

[mersenne6]

  According to the Greenberg guide the engine you have illustrated is #1688 introduced in 1937 - brass trim below running boards painted black, larger drive wheels - same as on the Hiawatha - and sliding pickups.  The catalog cut  from 1937 is below:

[Nationwidelines]

Here is a very interesting example of a c. 1920 car.  Note the difference in lithograph colors between the two sides.

 

 

 

 

Not sure how this one made it out of the factory, maybe a color blind assembler.

 

NWL

[rack776]

Thanks for posting the 1937 catalog photo.

Boy do I feel bad, and stupid now, I think I might have helped break up a set like the one on top of the catalog page.  I wish I had known more about prewar flyer before I bought my "train set"

When I bought my 1688 it was from a train show dealer who had mostly postwar lionel, there was a set of 3 red passenger cars on the table with the same style trucks shown in the catalog photo you posted,  I figured the trucks did not match the tender and they were from an earlier set.  The seller at the show had each item priced seperately.

I  ended up buying the 1688 and 4 wide low light teal blue and silver cars with the grey trucks with brass trim thinking they were the correct match to my 1688 engine.    

Are there any sets in 1937 that used the wide low blue and silver cars with the tab and slot couplers?

I also bought the cars and boxes for a double header set (he had no engines ) the dealer had no other prewar flyer except the 3 red cars that I had passed on.  It's Live and learn I guess I can claim I have "separate sale" 1937 trainset.

I actually like the blue and silver much better than the red cars anyway and they look really good together, with the 1688 engine.  I am happy to have them.

-Jason

[mersenne6]

No, there are no 1937 sets with that combination.  There is a 1938 set that has those cars and the locomotive but the tender is the then new diecast version.  The set is #7 in the catalog cut below,

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Jason,

I wouldn't worry too much about breaking up the set.  The red cars with the type X truck are fairly easy to find. In fact the set that I have of those cars and engine are actually assembled from two different purchases.  For all you know the vendor may have actually purchased them from seperate sources.

Here are some photos of the set that mersenne6 posted from the 1938 catalog.

I think I have the sets from 1937 with your 1688 engine, but I don't think I have taken any photos of them yet.  I'll have to try to get to that in the next few days.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

PS  NationWideLines,

Its interesting to see the two different shades of blue on your car.  However I had no idea that Flyer produced one truck freight cars.        Great find.        

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods Flyer

PS  NationWideLines,

Its interesting to see the two different shades of blue on your car.  However I had no idea that Flyer produced one truck freight cars.        Great find.        

 

 

Northwoods,

That is a baggage car and I am assuming it goes with an articulated streamline set designed to run on a single truck.  Just kidding.  I photographed it how it arrived. 

The engine that it came with is even more interesting.  It is a dark green 1217 engine, c. 1920.  Note the color of the cab in the photograph is almost black.  The difference is more noticable in person, but it is a very dark color. 

 

 

What really makes this engine interesting is that the underside of the cab is unpainted raw metal.  I have never observed that in a Flyer engine before.

 

Note there is some paint from the outside that has leaked through any holes in the cab, from when it was initially painted, but that is all.

 

 

I know that this engine is from the earliest production of these boxcab engines, because the motor has only a single power pick up that is at the end of a long tab, which is similar to the early c. 1918/1919 electric steam engines that I have.  I have only seen this type of pick up on one other boxcab in my collection and that one came with paperwork that was date coded to 1920.

 

This is the first 1217 motor that I have acquired for my collection and I find some of its characteristics to be very interesting.  First of all, it has a body mounted headlight.  The description in the Greenberg's guide was unclear to this characteristic, as there was no mention of a headlight.  Where the descrtiption of the 1201 specifically mentions no headlight and the description of the 1218 specifically mentions having a headlight. 

 

The color on this engine matches another very unusual engine in my collection and that is a 1218 engine that is factory overpainted and re-stamped with identification.

 

The above engine is extremely unusual in that the factory overpaint covers very unusual decal lettering as well as all trim (inclusive of the broken off bell).  Although it can not be seen in the photograph above, there are small square/rectangle areas where the decals are, that show as raised areas in the overpaint.  I have always wondered about the above engine as the only engines I have every seen with the decals showing are 1201 engines, which do not have in body headlights, yet the above 1218 engine has a headlight.  So possibly the above engine was originally a 1217 with factory decal lettering?  This could make sense as the only 1201 engines I have seen with decals have been black painted versions.

 

I have always wondered about the above engine because of its dark green paint (with the overpaint also covering dark green paint), which is unusual for a 1218 of this era.  Until I found this 1217, the only other dark green engines I was aware of from this early production were 1201 engines.  However, since they did not have body mounted headlights, they in my opinion were not candidates to be the overpainted engine.   

 

For reference, the below picture shows a 1201 engine with decals.

 

 

The engines with the decals are very rare and unusual. I think I have seen only 3 or 4 of them over the years, not including the odd overpainted engine. 

 

The best guess on the overpainted engine is that it was sent back to the factory at some point in its life for refurbishment and it was repainted and restamped at that point.  The only other thought is that it was incorrectly decaled at the factory and then repainted with rubberstamping being applied.  I really do not know and those are the only two theories that make sense.

 

NWL

[Northwoods Flyer]

NationWideLines, 

You find some of the most interesting variations.  Thanks for posting them.

I'm adding the 2014 American Flyer Tale for Christmas here. Its been out there as a separate thread for a while, but I like to include them here on this thread as well. So it isn't anything new if you have already read it.  What I will add is some additional  photos of the The Merchant set from 1928 that plays a role in the story.

 

And here is the story:

 

An American Flyer Tale For Christmas

2014 Edition

 

 

“Its finally done.” Steve thought to himslf as he eased himself into the big upholstered wing chair in his train room.  It had been his practice for years to hide himself away in the train room after the children were tucked away in bed on Christmas Eve.  Then he could wrap presents in peace without fear of being discovered.  Each year it seemed that the job took longer as the number of presents increased.  He and his wife talked about cutting  back every year,  but that never seemed to happen.  He usually had a stack of old Christmas movies ready to watch as he did the wrapping.  He enjoyed watching “White Christmas”,  “The Bishop’s Wife”, and “Christmas in Connecticut”.  His favorite by far was “A Christmas Carol”, of which he had several versions.

 

Now that he had finished the wrapping it was well after midnight.  He had made himself a good strong Tom and Jerry and settled into his favorite spot in the train room.  Steve took a sip of the holiday beverage and gazed around the train room.  The layout looked great with some Christmas themed items placed on it.  It was particularly fun when he turned the room lights out and let the glow of street lamps and lighted buildings provide the illumination.  His eyes roamed over the walls of the room, taking in the collection of Pre War American Flyer Trains that he had gathered.  Over the years he had purchased individual cars and engines, accessories, and on rare occassions a complete set.  He enjoyed looking at the collection of Narrow and Wide Gauge trains, remembering how he had aquired the pieces and from whom.  It pleased him to think that he had brought together items that had their common beginnings at the factory building on Halsted street in Chicago.  He knew very little about where most of the trains had spent their time since leaving the factory.  A few of the pieces he had purchased from their original owners, or at least from the family that had originally owned them.  He knew their stories.  He wondered what kinds of stories the other trains would tell if they could talk.  He considered it a priviledge to be their current owner and thought of himself as their caretaker while they were in his possession.

 

He took a longer sip of his drink and started to watch “A Christmas Carol.”  He wasn’t quite sure which ghost was about to make its appearance when he had dozed off, but when he woke up the credits for the movie were rolling on the screen.  He picked up the remote and turned off the system.  The light from the TV glowed for a fraction of a second and then blinked off.  Steve settled back into the chair for  few seconds and he thought about mustering up the energy to head to bed.   

 

He listened to the antique station clock that he kept on the wall of the train room ticking at a steady rate.  Each “tick” was answered with a slightly deeper “tock” and a soft high pitched squeak as the pendulum headed back to “tick”.  Suddenly he noticed that the rhythmic “tick tock”  had stopped.  He opened his eyes and looked at the clock.  The room was gently bathed in light from the layout.  His attention was drawn to a blue point of light reflected in the glass covering the face of the  clock.  He looked in the direction where the source of the light originated.  As he watched, the light began to grow in size.   It grew until it touched the floor and stood about 5 feet tall.  Steve was fascinated by the  way the blue light shimmered and rippled as it grew.  It almost seemed alive.  The intensity of the light remained the same but at its core something began to take shape.  As he watched, a human form began to materialize.  It appeared to be a young boy, dressed in the clothes of a decade long past, bathed in the cool blue light.  The boy was facing away from Steve and it looked as if he was searching among the shelves of engines and freight cars and passenger trains for something.  Up and down the boy’s head bobed as he moved along the length of the shelves.  When he reached the end of the last set of shelves the boy was only a few feet away from where Steve sat in his chair.  Slowly the apparition, bathed in blue light, turned and looked at Steve.  Their eyes met and instantly Steve felt at ease.  The young face was alert, friendly and excited.  The boy spoke, “Please sir, can you tell me where it is?”   For some reason it didn’t seem strange to him that this spectral boy should be talking to him.  He thought for a moment and then responded.  “What are you looking for?”

“My missing car.” the boy said.  “It’s a green sand car.”

“I have several of them on the shelves.  You didn’t see one like it?  Steve replied.

“No sir.  I didn’t see my car.  It was part of my Christmas present in 1928.   I started looking at the train catalogs as soon as they arrived at Olsen’s Hardware store that year.  I looked at the Lionel catalog and I looked at the American Flyer catalog.  It was hard to decide which train to pick so I could  put it in the Christmas letter that I sent to Santa.  I finally picked the #1387 Merchant Set.  And she was a beauty mister.  The set had a #3185 electric engine, a beautiful red caboose, a machinery car, a box car, and my green sand car.  I sent my letter to Santa as soon as I made my decision.  My dad took it to the Post Office and sent it off Special Delivery for me.”

 

The boy went on; ”On Christmas Eve our whole family gathered at my grandpa and grandma’s house.  All of my aunts and uncles and cousins were there.  We had a swell time together.  All of us kids kept trying to sneak into the parlor to see if Santa had brought us anything.  At last grandpa said it was time to go into the parlor and open presents.  I spotted my present from Santa right away.  The box was the right size and it was wrapped in red paper with candy canes on it.  My oldest cousin passed out all the presents and sure enough that present was mine.  I was so excited I could hardly wait for my turn to open my present.  Finally I got to tear the paper off the box.  The label said it was the #1387 -  The Merchant.  I took the top of the box off and each box inside was wrapped in green Christmas paper.  One by one I took the boxes out and unwrapped them until the whole set stood on grandma’s oriental carpet.  Mister, It was the most beautiful train set in the whole world.”

 

“You should have seen the parlor.  It was full of torn wrapping paper and boxes and packing papers.  My cousins and I, and my uncles too, set the track up, hooked up the wires, put the engine and cars on the track and away she went.  Everybody took a turn at being the engineer of  The Merchant.  We even turned off the lights in the parlor except for the ones on the Christmas tree and pretended The Merchant was running through the night.  Before you knew it my mom and dad said it was time to go home.  I put all the cars back in their boxes and some of my cousins helped me put it all back in the big box.  The boxes and track were harder to put back in than they were to take out, but finally everything was back in the box and the lid shut.”

 

“The next day I was up early to play with my new train.  I unpacked all the cars and the track in the living room and sent The Merchant whizzing around the track.  It only took one trip around the track and I realized that the green sand car was missing.  I looked through the boxes again, but it wasn’t there.  I searched through all the presents under the tree without finding the car.  I asked mom and dad and my brother and sister but they didn’t know where it was.  I even had my mom call grandma  to see if it was still in the parlor, but they couldn’t find my sand car either.”

 

“Mister, my sand  car disappeared just as if it never existed. But I know I had it that first night because we loaded it with candy and sent it around the track.  I never did find the sand car or the box it came in.”

 

“So I came here tonight to see if maybe you had it.  You have so many trains.  I’d sure like to see The Merchant run again.”

 

Steve thought for a moment. “ I think I have all of those cars and the engine.  I didn’t realize I had all the components of The Merchant until you started talking about it.”

 

“Could you find them mister?  I sure would like to see her run again.”

 

Steve got up from the chair and made his way around the shelves.  He grabbed a #3185 from the engines on display.  Then he found a box car, and a machinery car and a caboose on different shelves that were from 1928.  He put them on the track in front of the transformer.  He was lacking the #3207 green sand car.  He went back to the shelves to look for one.

 

“You don’t have the right one mister.  I looked all over for one.”

 

Steve stood looking at his ghostly visitor.  All at once he snapped his fingers, bent down and pulled a storage box from under the layout.  He rummaged in the box for a few seconds and then pulled out a very old and fragile looking cardboard box.  He opened the box and pulled open the waxed wrapping paper that cushioned the car inside.  There in the box was an almost pristine #3207 sand car.  It matched the other cars he had assembled from 1928 that sat on the track.  He lifted out the car and showed it to the boy.

 

“Hey! That’s it!  That’s just like my missing car!  You found it!”

 

A feeling of excitement welled up in Steve.  He carried the sand car to the track and coupled up all of the cars to the engine.  He flipped the switch on the vintage transformer and the red and green lights glowed softly.  He looked up at his visitor and asked “Would you like to run her?”

 

“Oh Swell!  Can I?” the boy replied.

Steve stepped away from the transformer and the boy placed his pale hand on the throttle.  The engine came to life and the train moved around the layout.  They stood side by side watching The Merchant go on its way to make deliveries.  He wasn’t sure how long they stood watching the train when the boy finally looked down at the box that held the #3207.  He picked it up and examined it.  He let out a shout of excitement. “Holy Cats! Hey mister this is my missing sand car!  Look here on the box.  There is some paper still stuck to the box with tape.  That’s the paper all of the boxes inside the set box were wrapped in.  Holy Cats!  I finally found it!  Thank mister, thanks a lot.”

 

Steve smiled broadly as  he watched the boy bathed in blue light running the train.  As he watched, he began to feel tired, and he started to yawn uncontrollably.  He moved back to his big comfortable chair and sat down.  He watched contentedly as the headlights of the engine moved around the layout.  The next thing he was aware of was the sound of the ticking of the station clock on the wall.  He opened his eyes and looked at the soft glow of the street lamps and illuminated houses on the layout.

 

“Wow! What a dream.  Its amazing what you get when you mix a Tom and Jerry, gift wrapping and A Christmas Carol.”  He chuckled to himself as he got out of his chair and headed for the door of the train room.  Just as he was about to turn off the power to the layout something caught his attention.  On the track sat a cardboard box that usually held an American Flyer #3207 sand car.  A little further down the track was a train headed by an electric engine.  Steve recognized a Merchant freight train.  What surprised him even more was the miniature figure standing in front of the freight station.  It was a figure that he didn’t recognize. It was a young boy dressed in clothing from a decade long past.  His arm was raised in a wave of greeting, and he had a big smile on his face.

 

1928 American Flyer Catalog

The Merchant

The set assembled by Steve

The Merchant running on the layout

 

 

The boxed #3207

 

 

The box with the tape and a remnant of green wrapping paper

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

[rack776]

Neat story...the wrapping paper scrap is too cool

 

 A few posts back I had asked About A 3315/1688 Prewar Locomotive that I had bought.
Well, Here are the photos of the engine, tender and passenger cars as I got them.
Can anyone share more information about them?

What would identfy this engine as a 3315 or a 1688?


 This engine was missing the headlight trim, I added a polished brass headlight from a broken junk box body.
I belive the original headllight trim may have originally been blackened brass, the running board brass trim is blackened.
The green running board stripes match the paint on the 4 passenger cars I have.

I checked arround with a magnet and I noticed much of the "brass" trim on the engine and passenger cars is actually not real brass.
It is either brass plated steel or nickel plated steel with yellow brass colored clear coat.

 The rear locomotive truck looks like someone used smaller diameter nickel plated replacement wheels on the original truck bracket.
The reverse unit is missing the entire front bracket and its contact plate, it was bypassed and wired to run forward only. 

 The box the engine came in has a 3315 stamp on it, the instruction sheet shows the same style chassis & reverse unit that is  in the locomotive I have. 

The tender & cars did not come with any boxes or papers.

If you look at the erector set drawings in my previous post further up this page, it shows the same style engine with the large drive wheels. However all the other info I have seen shows the 3315 as having small drive wheels.

 I guess I could try to call it a 1936 B&O set with an owner/dealer substituted engine and a replacement for a lost original tender, or  maybee it is an orphan erector set locomotive that gained a spare tender and some passenger cars?   They all look good together to me even if it was never sold this way in a catalog. I plan on finding a proper tender with the gold step and decals someday.

 

Clicking on the photos will link to the original sized photo to zoom in if a larger view is needed.

 

 

After some research I found the tender looks to be made earlier than the cars and locomotive.

The trucks have one large opening instead of 3 and the nameplates are stamped brass not decals,

Anyone have any idea what years this tender was made?

 

The passenger cars are actually a Green/Blue kind of like a Jade Green.

I have only seen photos of light blue & silver cars in this style,  The paint does not look discolored or stained and the insides match the outsides.

The rear wall of the observation car is silver like the roofs.

They have no signs of ever being taken apart or repainted.

Can anyone tell me what year these cars were made or what sets they could have been from?

Thanks for any help identifing these items.

Also what is this style reverse unit with the moveable field called?
I dont know what to call or where to search for the missing reverse unit parts.

I need spare parts or at least good clear & straight photos with measurements to recreate the missing reverse parts.
Does anyone have a source for the correct rear truck wheels now that MEW is out of business?

-Jason Rackawack

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nationwidelines]

You have a 1688 locomotive, which is denoted by the larger sized drive wheels. 

The tender you have dates to approximately 1930-1931.

If you are missing reverse unit parts, I would suggest you wire around it.  Those reverse units did not work well and are very frustrating to operate, as they often stick in the direction you do not want it to travel in.

[Northwoods Flyer]

I agree with NationWideLines on the engine.  You have a 1688 engine from 1937. Its also known as a Type IX boiler casting.  The larger wheels, as also used on the Hiawatha, and the blackened brass trim along the running boards are the main clues.

Your blue green (sometimes called teal) passenger cars came with the grey Type VIII trucks for two years in the catalog.

 

1936

The catalog shows a 4 car set. In 1935 the same set was offered but it is described as having shiney silver cars, but in 1936 the catalog says that the colors of the cars may vary (probably the silver and blue cars)  These cars have the Type VIII trucks.

 

1937

Again Type VIII trucks.

1938

Trucks change  as do couplers.

1939

 

So your cars are most likely from the 1936 - 1937 era.

EDIT  My mistake, I looked back at your photo after I posted and I see that you do have a 4 car set.

You have a 3 car set, so either a car got lost along the way, or you have the 3 cars from the 1938 No. 3 Passenger set that is shown as having 3 blue cars and is pulled by the 4629 Streamlined Pennsylvania Engine.

 The catalog illustration looks like the trucks are black, but I bet that Gilbert was using up grey Type VIII trucks for that set.

Identifying the years that equipment was cataloged can be challenging. To complicate matters, there are many sets that were not cataloged and sold through large retail chains and small retail stores.  I hope you enjoy the hunt and more importantly, I hope you enjoy your American Flyer Trains.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

  Ok, 'fess up.  Who did the "buy-it-now" over on e-bay for the Coca-Cola Flyer passenger set?    Seriously, the e-bay offering is only the second time I've ever seen one of these sets for sale.  The first time was at a train show almost 30 years ago and it was snapped up at the then "bargin" price of $2,500.  The e-bay had a buy-it-now for three times that and it would appear someone took the seller up on the offer.

[Nationwidelines]

Not sure what you are talking about, the coca-cola set is still listed with a buy-it-now of $7,500, as I am watching it.  Or was there another?

I saw one sell on ebay a couple of years ago for around $9,000 and the buyer was a coca-cola collector, not a train collector.

I suspect that a coca-cola collector would be more willing to pay that kind of money than a train collector.

[mersenne6]

 Well, that's interesting.  I assumed it had been sold because it didn't show up on my search this morning.  If you run the search on Flyer and choose "price highest first" it doesn't appear - the first thing that shows up are the 3 #9915 cadmium cars.  I thought it was listed under Flyer because I am almost certain that's what I was searching last night but maybe there's some other way you are supposed to look for it.

[Nationwidelines]

Mersenne6,

It is likely not showing up on the "priced highest first" search because in addition to the buy it now option, the seller allowed bidding, with a low starting price and it probably keys into that.

Check ebay item number 111618323106

I am watching it in my ebay, so it is easier to track for me.

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

mersenne6

This is the search that I use:

Toys & Hobbies > Model Railroads & Trains > O Scale > American Flyer

 

Once I get to the screen that shows items I used the Buy it Now option and found the auction eventually.

 

By the Way, if it had been purchased already, It wouldn't have been me.  Its an interesting set, and an even more interesting price,  Yikes.  

Enjoying the World's Greatest (Expensive?) Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

Thanks guys - I see it now - and that has to be what it was - bidding and a buy it now.

[Nationwidelines]

Northwoods Flyer

By the Way, if it had been purchased already, It wouldn't have been me.  Its an interesting set, and an even more interesting price,  Yikes.  

Enjoying the World's Greatest (Expensive?) Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

Guys, I saw a not so nice quality coca-cola set listed a couple of years ago for around $8,500-$9,000 with a buy it now option (and possibly a best offer option).  That set was not as nice as the set currently listed and did not have a box (not that I would claim the box with the set currently on ebay is original).  Anyway, the set I saw a few years ago sold after a couple of days and I believe the selling price was around the $8,500 mark. 

Now I know it is difficult to figure out the buyer in ebay sales, but I saw that the buyer had been exclusively purchasing coca-cola items as opposed to train items, based on their feedback profile.  So, that just goes to show that there are some people even more crazy than train collectors. 

[rack776]

It is the same with the Disney themed Lionel Cars, both old antique prewar and even the modern stuff. The prices are about 5 times higher for a box car with a cartoon mouse painted on it.

Thanks for posting the Coke train link I never saw that set before, Have any history on it? Was it a give away item? Its pretty cool.  Someone should post the photos on here for a reference of the set.

Can anyone recomend a good O gauge Prewar Flyer guide book?

I have heard the David Doyle Flyer book is a disapointment for prewar O gauge items. I have seen the older 1980s used Greenburg Flyer books are pretty pricy on Amazon, there is no preview to see what you will get for your money.  I'd like to know how accurate or complete they are for a $75-$150 Book.  I've seen alot of items in this thread that are listed as "not being listed in the Greenburg guide".

Any advise on a good guide would be appreciated

-Jason Rackawack

[mersenne6]

  The Greenberg guides are good and I suspect you will have to wait a very, very long time before anyone tries to turn out anything like them.  I woiuld recommend getting one. As for the number of items on this thread that are not included in the guide that's pretty much what one would expect given Flyer's willingness to use up old inventory any way they could and the fact that the last time those guides were published was several years ago.

[Northwoods Flyer]

I agree that the Greenberg guide, second edition, is the one that you should have for Pre War American Flyer O (Narrow) gauge trains. While it does have its errors it is still the most complete reference with the most information.  There have been many items documented since the guide was completed, which is to be expected when you have folks like the participants here looking for variations and doing the research on thier history.  Its one of the things I like about this thread; there always seems to be something "new" turning up.  

I know that there is controversy surrounding the Doyle book, but it does provide additional information and photos of pieces. Its fairly inexpensive and its fun to see some items that aren't pictured in the Greenberg guide.  Watch eBay for copies of the Greenberg guide as well, sometimes the prices for the book are under $100.  I consult it several times a week, and one of my copies is pretty well thumbmarked, and it always goes to shows and on vacation with me.  

Of course, there is always this thread.  It has lots of photos, provides information on variations, and will introduce you to some very nice and knowledgable folks.  I know its cumbersome to try and find a specific item.  Since the reformating of pages in the last upgrade the rudimentary index that existed is useless.  Maybe one day I'll attempt another index, but over 1400 posts to go through seems a bit daunting.

I think you will find the Greenberg guide a worthwhile and fun investment.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

Northwoods, I was looking for something on the thread this morning and I noticed that you have added (been adding?) tags to the bottom of your posts.  Do you have a preferred cataloging nomenclature or is it just a free-for-all at the moment?  I put some on my posts to the first 5 or so pages of the thread - take a look and see what you think and if you have any recommendations let us know.  It may be that this is the way to make this very long thread searcher friendly.

[Northwoods Flyer]

Mersenne6,

I certainly like the idea of making the thread searcher friendly.  However, I must confess my ignorance.  I don't know how to do a search by tag.  I've never  been able to make the search function work to my advantage. I noticed that the Tag Cloud that used to appear in the right column disappeared in the last upgrade too.

The tags that I have added to my entries have not had any specific cataloging order.  I went back and looked at the ones that you added to your posts in the early pages.  I like what you have done so far and  I'm open to suggestions to put order to the chaos.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

Wellllllll... apparently they don't matter, which makes me wonder about the point of their existence.  I tried the search the community over on the right and put in "American Flyer" and then clicked the choice of "Forums" in the upper left hand corner of the window that opened.  There is a tag listing further down on the left hand side but it is limited beyond belief and it doesn't look like it adds new entries so I guess the tag idea is a non-starter.  Oh well, it was worth a try.

[Northwoods Flyer]

American Flyer Wide Gauge

#4152 Observation     Eagle

I have been trying to assemble a set of wide gauge "Eagle"  cars for a while now.  So far most of the examples that I have seen have been in well played with and loved condition.  At this point I have two observation cars.

This is the more common all green version.

I find it interesting that the back wall with the door to the observation platform in orange.

In my hunting for passenger coaches I came across an Eagle observation with an orange roof.

It differs from the other observation because it has brass air tanks instead of trusses and the back wall is red.

I have become a victim of poor memory or poor organization...or both.  I found some photos of green cars with orange roofs and with red roofs that someone sent to me in emails. I think that I must have posted about these cars somewhere at sometime, but I sure don't remember when or where.  

I'll have to do some hunting around to see if I can find out their source.  I don't like to post photos without the original owner's permission.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[toy4sonny]

I collect AF chicago cars. I have dozens of boxes sets plus over 20 random cars pulled by various Type 1 clockwork engines (closed window-open 3 & 4 & 5 ). I only have one 4 window with a type III frame. And whenI put on magnifiers I can see the tabs have been very very carefully bent (probably with soft wooden angled small doll rod's). A good job but with 7X power one can see slight marks on my one car plus the dead "give away" of a little paint missing on tab edges ( ever so slight but always there ). Using old inventory-Maybe. Nothing is impossibe..