Following up on the postings from the previous page; here are some photos of both sets from 1938 that feature the Type XX sheet metal steam locomotive. The No.1 Passenger Set and the No. 2 Freight Set
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
In 1939 the Type XX sheet metal locomotive shows up in one of my favorite sets.
Its on the cover of the 1939 catalog
The Type XX in 1940
The Gilbertization of Flyer continued apace in 1940. For the Type XX engines this meant a change in their consists from cars designed in Chicago to cars designed in New Haven. The locomotive appeared in two sets a passenger set (#4001) and a freight set (#4002). They were basic no-frills sets. For some, they provide an odd sort of appearance but I like them because they highlight the fact of transition and the fact of frugality.
1940 Catalog cut
Set #4001
Set #4002
Addendum for 1937
A page or two back when the discussion about the Type XX first started a picture was posted of the 2-4-0 version with a mechanical whistle. This engine was part of an uncataloged set which collectors identify as "The Blue Streak" because of the name on the sides of the lithographed passenger cars.
Blue Streak 1937
Thanks Mersenne6 for the additional posting on the Type XX sheet metal engine. I think its interesting to see how Gilbert made use of designs from both eras of production in 1940. Lets go back to 1939 for a moment. Beside the Double Header set, American Flyer used the Type XX in two entry level sets that year. Both sets appear on page 14 of the 1939 catalog.
1939 Set No. 301 Passenger Train
The set contains the following:
The No. 403 Remote Control Locomotive and Tender
The No. 234R Baggage Car
The No.235 Passenger Car
And The No. 236R Observation
Its a nice looking set and obviously shorter than the passenger set from the year before. 1939 has the sheet metal operating knuckle coupler.
You know what must be coming next.
Northwoods Flyer In 1939 the Type XX sheet metal locomotive shows up in one of my favorite sets. The Type XX is a dummy.
Northwoods Flyer,
I also love this set and have been fortunate enough to have added one to my collection. I do have a question in regards to the above picture. Does the dummy locomotive have steel rimmed wheels or has your locomotive wheel rims been painted white? I also notices that the pictures in the catalog show the first tender as have the gold box on the front of it where the set you have, the set I have and the pictures of the other sets I have captured over the years all have the gold box on the second tender. Have you ever seen one that has the gold box on the first tender? I have not added pictures of my sets as it needs a good cleaning and some minor parts to make it complete. Once it is done, I will post my set. I was very lucky to get my set. It was listed on eBay, but the individual who listed it did not know what they had, so they listed in six different lots. I was able to win all six lots and I did not have to pay an arm and leg to get them. It helped that all of the lots ended during the morning on a day in the middle of the week.
strainst
This post deals with a different topic.
I have just received this American Flyer 7011, version C, Montgomery Wards Steeple-Cab locomotive. In Alan R Schuweiler's book, "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer® Prewar O Gauge," he indicates this uncataloged locomotive came in a special passenger train set. Does anyone know what cars came with this set and what are the color(s) of the cars? This reference guide also says this version of the 7011 Steeple-Cab locomotive is very dark green or black. Mine is a medium green but it does have the rubber stampings and the reverse unit where the handle comes out of the top of the body behind the pantograph. Has this color been seen before? If this topic has been already covered, what pages should I look at? Thanks
strains,
That is a nice 7011 that you have acquired. I have a set that I have put together from two different sources, but it illustrates what NationWideLines in describing in his post.
My 7011 has the track trip activated reverse. I have never seen the version that you have.
Here are the three Illini cars. You will find that the Illini cars have a wide number of variations, but I believe that this is the variation that came with the Montgomery Ward sets.
There are some postings and links about the Montgomery Ward sets back on pages 47 48 and 49. I think there might be others scattered through the thread. I'll have to go looking.
I also love this set and have been fortunate enough to have added one to my collection. I do have a question in regards to the above picture. Does the dummy locomotive have steel rimmed wheels or has your locomotive wheel rims been painted white? I also notices that the pictures in the catalog show the first tender as have the gold box on the front of it where the set you have, the set I have and the pictures of the other sets I have captured over the years all have the gold box on the second tender. Have you ever seen one that has the gold box on the first tender?
strains
The wheels on my engine are painted white. I'm not sure if that is original or an addition by a previous owner. I think it looks kind of snazzy though. I have never paid attention to the wheels on any other dummy.
As far as the tenders go; all of the pieces in my Double Header set were purchased individually and I assembled a reasonable representation of the set. I didn't try to match the pictures in the catalog. It would take seeing some original boxed sets whose provenance was pretty clear to determine what was actually in the set as distributed. And as you know sometimes the catalog illustrations are not accurate.
Here are some examples from Google Images
Wow, many of the photos that come up are of my collection.
NWL
When you said the reverse lever coming out of the top is of a later time period, what period would you put for this locomotive?
A few entries back we were documenting the variations of the Type XX sheet metal locomotive. I have been away on vacation for a few weeks but Nationwidelines sent the following information to me about another variation. He has been having difficulty posting photos to the thread.
"You just posted photos of your set 301 from 1939. I have a nearly identical set 301 that came with a variation of the 401 locomotive that you have not yet posted. Both the engine and tender are quite rare and I have never seen another tender like this.
I believe this to be a very late 1939 production engine, which is gunmetal gray with nickel trim. The nickel trim is generally reported for the 1940 models of this engine and in black only. The other unique item is the decals on the tender and it somewhat speaks for itself. This is a 100% original engine and tender that came to me as a set with the red cars like you have.
It is a sharp looking engine and tender combination. A theory on the tender is that it is near the end of production and Flyer ran out of the large billboard type decals that are normally found on this tender. All I know is that I have showed it to several people who specialize in the 1938-1941 era flyer and nobody has seen one before. The engine in gray with nickel trim does show up occasionally, but it is also quite rare."
Nationwidelines
Thanks NWL. This is a very interesting variation, and something to add to the list of things to watch for.
As promised a few entries back, there is another set from 1939 that featured the Type XX sheet metal engine and tender.
1939 Set No. 302 Freight Train
The freight set contains the following:
The No. 403 Remote Control locomotive and tender
The No. 228 Log Car ( mine is missing the load and a brake wheel)
The No. 229 Box Car
The No. 232 Caboose
The set also has the 1939 automatic sheet metal couplers.
Once again American Flyer (now by Gilbert) made use of existing stock to create a good looking entry level set.
Now that we've taken a fairly thorough look at the variations of the Type XX locomotive lets move on to:
Type XXI (1936-1939) Pennsylvania locomotive
American Flyer introduced this streamlined locomotive in 1936. The body of the engine is sheet metal while the boiler has a die cast front. The wheel arrangement is an odd 0-4-2 design.
The engine is an interpretation of The Broadway Limited engine designed by Raymond Loewy.
To compliment the new style of engine Flyer introduced a new sheet metal tender (Type XII).
In this first year the engine and tender are both black.
Back on page 75 there are additional posts about this engine and photos of the two sets that it led in the 1936 catalog.
More to come............
Part 2
The Type XXI changed color and wheel arrangement in 1937 and remained that way in 1938.
The wheel arrangement is changed to 2-4-4.
The color of the engine and the tender are changed to grey.
This is one of my favorite engines, partly because I played with it as a child and watched it travel around the Christmas tree for hours.
Part 3
In 1939 the Type XXI sheet metal locomotive gets an extreme makeover.
The wheel arrangement is still the 2-4-4 arrangement, but the sheet metal skirt on each side has been cut away to expose the drive wheels and running gear.
The tender gets a new look with a bold, black, white and blue decal.
The engine gets a nose job. It has a new die-cast front end piece that makes it look like the styling of the New York Central's Twentieth Century Limited.
Here is a photo of a gunmetal gray tender variation. Note it has the cheap truck frames with no journal box frames.
?tn= 248337785
I guess the last post is better than not being able to post a normal text.
Thanks to Northwoods for suggesting that I try Google Chrome for posting.
Lets try a little splicing.
I think it worked. Welcome back NWL.
Let us try this again.
That is a better posting of the photo of the tender with the inexpensive trucks without journals. I have this tender with a set of 3176-3177 cars in red. c. 1937
The following entry appears back on page 45
Hello-
I was searching through American Flyer illustrations on Goggle images when I came across the illustration of the American Flyer boy you posted in 2008. This illustration, signed with a "P", is a work of my late father's, Louis A. Paeth, who was an artist/illustrator of 1920's and 1930's Chicago. Recently, I saw a listing on Ebay of an old 1933 American Flyer catalog that featured a cover illustration that looked like it could have been painted by my father. When I learned that American Flyer had once been a Chicago-based company, I started searching the internet and came across your posted image.
I'm curious to know of the year of this illustration, what year catalog did it appear in? Also, if you have any other information about any other illustrative works from this era's catalogs, I would be most interested. I'm trying to piece together my father's early art career in Chicago; I'm amazed to find a signed illustration, thank you so much for putting it on the internet!
Any help you could provide would be most appreciated...thank you
Peter Paeth
This entry led to several additional entries about catalog cover art on pages 46 and 47. The thing that fascinated me the most was that Peter was able to identify the American Flyer smiling boy as the work of his father Louis A. Paeth. I am passing on a link to a Youtube video that NationWideLines sent to me. It is a video that Peter has posted of his father's work. You will see the iconic smiling boy as well as a number of other train and railroad illustrations that Louis Paeth produced in the video. Peter has produced a wonderful tribute to his father
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7L8VtpkTp4
It wasn't so much the boy himself as it was the stylized signature letter "P" at the bottom part of the picture. He noted this in his initial post at the bottom of page 45. Later I communicated with Peter on a side conversation and from time to time I've wondered about his research efforts - I'll have to look at the youtube offering this evening - thanks for posting this.
This is the American Flyer smiling boy illustration that we are posting about. It was used as the catalog cover art for catalogs from 1922 through 1924.
By the way, this is one of the images available from John Holtman's digital collection of Pre War American Flyer Catalogs. As Ogaugeoverlord reported, John no longer has a license from Lionel to market these discs. But, they are available until Sept. 30.
www.hslinc.com
Enjolying the World's Greatest Hobby
On page 44 Mersenne6 posted the following photograph showing an odd variation of the 3010 tank car.
The car is notable due to it having a late frame and trucks and the body of the tank being punched for number plates and ladders, which were never installed and did not appear until 1928 on the enameled cars.
I have since discovered the following example, which is identical to Mersenne6's car.
I believe this car to be late 1927 production when Flyer was developing the enamel painted cars. It appears that they likely test ran a few cars for the punching of the number plates and ladders and mounted them on their new frame / trucks that they were developing for 1928.
Below is a picture of an earlier variation of the same car.
Differences between the two variations that I noted are:
1 The frame is different in that the sides of the frame are not as tall on the late version
2 The frame on the late version is punched for not only the ladders (with the holes partially or totally filled with paint) but it is also punched for the brass steps, which were riveted on to the 1928 production cars.
3 The trucks on the later version have punched out centers, which are found on the 1928 freight and passenger cars
4 Obviously the tank body itself is punched for the plates and ladders
5 The later version has brass ends and a brass dome, as compared to the early version which has either a nickel finish.
6 The later variation has only 3 supports for the hand rail, while the early version has 5 supports for the hand rail
7 One of the more interesting things is that I have original boxes for both variations and the early variation comes in a 2 piece box that has an end label and the later variation comes in a 1 piece box with the number 3010 being rubber stamped on the box. My early variation was a separate sale item as it has a price tag and perhaps my later variation was included in a set, which would only require a simple rubber stamped number on the box.
Northwoods - That was a nice tribute to an amazing artist.
Nationwidelines - Nice, having the original boxes really adds to the hobby.
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
Nationwidelines Let us try this again. That is a better posting of the photo of the tender with the inexpensive trucks without journals. I have this tender with a set of 3176-3177 cars in red. c. 1937
Nationwidelines,
I had a feeling that I had one of these tenders somewhere in my collection. Sure enough, it took a while, but I finally found my example. So here is my Type XII tender (1936-1937), probably #1231 with Type X trucks.
Obviously mine is not in the same condition as Nationwidelines'
Sand Cars and Gondolas
In my experience and observation the most common freight car that American Flyer produced was the gondola or as Flyer called it the "sand car". It makes sense since they were easier to produce, and they also provided a lot of play value. Just imagine the types of loads that a child could easily place in an open car. I've also noticed that you can find many variations of sand cars. Because they were cataloged for so many years they went through the changes of frames and trucks and couplers that Flyer made.
This musing was brought on by a recent purchase of a #1116 lithographed sand car. I've been collecting these for years and I've been surprised by the number of variations that exist. According to Schuweiler the #1116 (usually an 8 wheel car) and the #1113 (usually a 4 wheel car) were cataloged from 1919 through 1935. For folks who like to collect variations this little car provides an opportunity to collect many of them and not to spend a lot of money. Building a collection of sand cars is the American Flyer Pre War equivalent of the thread illustrating collecting cheap classics in the Lionel line illustrated elsewhere on this forum.
So lets begin with the #1116. This is a 6 1/2" lithographed sand car.
The first example is a green car with NYC marking.
To date I've found 4 variations:
1.
This one has Type II trucks (Flyer used this truck from 1914 through 1924)
2.
This one has Type IV trucks (used from 1924-1927)
3.
This one has Type Va trucks (used from 1927 through 1930)
4.
This one has Type VI trucks (used from 1928 through 1933)
More to come......
Northwoods,
Here are some less common very early sand car variations. I know they probably have been posted previously, but here they are again.
c. 1910 In addition to an apparent red body matching frame, the car also appears to have had a gold stripe around the top edge. Unfortunately, most of the gold stripe and frame paint has chipped/flaked and is missing.
c. 1912 Main difference with this one and the 1910 model, is the two step frame instead of 3 steps, two halves of the car body join differently, and butterfly coupler instead of earlier style coupler.
c. 1915-1916 with 1109 lettering and rivet detail in litho with brown litho.
c. 1915-1916 same as above, but green litho
c. 1917 unlettered car lithographed in red. This car is very interesting because the two halves of the body join similar to the c. 1912 car, but the lip along the top edge of the body folds inside of the body similar to the 1916 era car. The car frame has the square punch out for the coupler slot, which dates to c. 1917 only.
c. 1918 car with winged engine herald. The car has the c. 1918 style couplers and once again the lip at the top edge of the car is folded to the outside of the body, similar to the c. 1910 and 1912 cars.
I guess that concludes the early 5.5 inch 4 wheel gondola variations that I know of.
Keeping with the sand car posts, here is a litho 9 inch freight c. 1925-1927. This one is lettered for Union Pacific.
Side A
Note the inside of the gondola in the photo above shows a negative/reverse image of the outside lithography. Never seen this before.
Side B
The visible inside walls of this side are painted black, which is normal.
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