Thank you Northwoods Flyer.
Page 2, eh? Right in front of my nose. Jeez. The sets I have are a lighter (faded, no doubt) green but that is clearly it.
I did some investigation of Frontenac. I'm thinking it may have started with Louis de Buade, Comte de Frontenac et de Palluau who was the governor of New France from 1673-1682 as many of the other references to the name are Canadian.
There were several Frontenac cars - most notably cars made in Canada by Durant and Dominion from 1931-33, but also one made in New york in 1909.
Then here is an extensive reference listing of train names on quite a number of railroads. A train named "Frontenac" ran on the Canadian Pacific Railway.
http://www.innvista.com/culture/travel/rail/namerail.htm
Then finally I ran across this link of a page from the December 1931 Boys Life magazine with an American Flyer ad for the Frontenac among other trains. The manual reverse version I have sold for $11.50. I guess it has held its value OK over the years.
http://books.google.com/books?id=9v0Me0lNg48C&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=american+flyer+frontenac&source=bl&ots=5Xn-MoO_Gm&sig=i0QhavKNWfvJS4wZj8q6Mxgq3yI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7v82T9X6FerZ0QGgx4mRAw&sqi=2&ved=0CFMQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=american%20flyer%20frontenac&f=false
Craig,
You have definitely been doing your research. It is really impressive what a person can discover and the information that can be found just by sitting at home in front of a computer. I really enjoyed the link to the Boy's Life magazine. I know where I will be spending some time reading.
The Frontenac was cataloged for the three years from 1930 to 1932. In each year it was headed by the 3107. In 1930 the catalog lists the set as #1322 and it says that the 3107 is a "reversing type". This is a photo of the catalog page from 1930.
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Thank you for the catalog and comparison pictures. The catalog description mentions two-tone green, and I can see where the roofs are a little darker. Both sets I have are nearly identical and more of the lighter color bodies.
One set was heavily rusted, and I used the Evapo-rust mentioned earlier. Unfortunately for the first car I used it on - the coach car, which was the most heavily rusted - I left in the solution too long (more than 24 hours). The result was an even lighter uneven paint color and removal of much of the stamped lettering. The other cars and engine shell I left in for 45min- 1 hr and that worked well. No damage to the paint or lettering and most of the rust was removed from the bodies and more importantly wheels and axles.
Craig
LIGHTING CARS which don't have rail contacts.
I have several passenger cars that are not set up (no roller contacts) for lighting. I considered several methods to light these cars, including trying to find trucks or rail contacts that might work. I finally decided to try battery powered lighting. After a number of experiments I settled on this method. I realize that folks probably wouldn't want to do this to valuable collector equipment, or maybe to any as it does require drilling a hole in the bottom of the car. But maybe it will be useful information to some.
The method requires an LED light strip, A23 12v battery, battery holder, sub-mini on-off toggle switch, aluminum and packing tape, frosted plastic sheet, wire, and soldering.
The LED reel (from Amazon) has a length of LED lights that can be cut into sections as small as 3 lights. I used a 6-light section for this car (litho 6" American Flyer Coach). The frosted plastic sheet (from Robert Grossman) was cut into 1" by 5" sections. The toggle switch, A23 battery and holder were found on eBay.
A strip of aluminum tape is fixed to the roof and the frosted strips are taped to the car using packing tape.
The electrical components are wired and soldered.
The LED strip is self adhesive and is fixed to the roof with a couple pieces of aluminum tape for extra security. Also the wire contacts to the LED strip are insulated with a piece of electrical tape.
A hole is drilled in the base of the car and the toggle switch attached.
The battery holder is hot-glued to the floor of the car and wires routed.
The roof is then snapped on and the car is now capable of interior lighting.
Since I have just done this I don't know about how long the battery will last, but I'm thinking as little as I need to light the cars, it will hopefully be a while. The battery will not be all that difficult to replace when it is necessary.
Northwoods Flyer
The Jeffersonian -- what a stunning set your neighbor has; a great start for an American Flyer collection.
strainst
I love the way the car looks with the lights on. Did you add the Pennsylvania keystone to the sides of this car? I don't think I have seen one before. It looks great!
Thanks strainst.
Yes, the PRR keystone is a decal. I picked up some odds and ends cars and thought the decals might add some sense of continuity. Plus I also have a lighted PRR end-drum for the observation car which I hope to put together tomorrow.
Yet another question.
I picked up an American Flyer #1 1/2 transformer (50w) for an auxiliary track. Hooked up to the variable voltage terminals, the trains just zoom at the lowest setting.
Is there any straightforward way of reducing the voltage output of the transformer - say at least in half?
The transformer for my main tracks is a Lionel KW which works just fine. Is this AF transfomer just "hotter?"
Thanks,
Here are the lighted passenger and observation cars with lighted drumhead (Dan's drumheads).
Southern Colorado Marx Flyer
I really like the way this looks, and the photo of all three cars with the lighted drumhead on the observation is spectacular. Thanks for posting the step by step process for installing the lighting. There are varying opinions about doing alterations to vintage equipment, but I think you did a first rate job and the outcome is aesthetically pleasing.
I thought you might like to know that the pullman car that you did the demonstration on is from the Prairie State mechanical set. The Prairie State set appeared for sale in the 1929 and 1930 catalog. Here are some photos of the page from the 1929 catalog.
Northwood Flyer, when I first saw the pictures of Craig's cars, I wondered if they were from the Prairie Set. When I looked at the roofs, I could not determine if they were red as in the Prairie Set or were they brown. American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set.
The Baggage Car.
The Passenger Car
And the Observation Car
The locomotive that pulled this set was the same loco that pulled the Broadway Limited Set, the 3011midsize boxcab but with a black roof. The set dates from 1927. I did not have the locomotive so I sold the cars after looking for a while but not finding one. I wished now I had kept the cars. (Update 2022; a year after selling these cars, I was able to buy them back for the individual who bought them from me. Later I did get a locomotive for the set, but when I recveived in the mail, I was not to happy with the roof. The roof looks like it has a bad repaint. I will continue to look for a better one.)
Like you, Northwood Flyer, I have been for years trying to put together a Prairie Train Set. Unlike you I have the loco and a half way decent tender but I need the rest of the set. The red No. 16 Type XI locomotive was one of the first American Flyer prewar trains I bought when I started looking for trains. It came with some other trains in a big wooden box that had survived a flooded basement. The guy who owned them decided to sell the trains before another flooded basement took care of them. I just happen to be in the right place at the right time. Most of the other trains were prewar Lionel and were sold later on to finance my search for more American Flyer trains. As you can see from the picture below, I have had some success.
Thank you for the kind comments, and again thank you for the catalog page photos.
One of more of the cars may be from the Prairie State set, but I am not certain of that. They all have the trucks with the rectangular opening. They were, however, found separately on eBay, and one of them is the result of piecing together two incomplete cars. I know the baggage car is from a different set as it originally had a black roof. Actually all three roofs seem slightly different in color from each other and I may paint all three roofs to match.
I'll take better pictures tomorrow and post them.
strainst American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set.
American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set.
strainst,
I am wondering the source of your set number 7012? I have been trying to document the 7000 series sets the best I can and have not seen that set number before. Did you have a boxed set, less engine?
I have a nearly identical set in my collection, but the cars have black roofs and the engine that came with the set was a maroon 3012 (ie it had reverse and the 3012 number plate). It is obviously a 1927 set as it has the early frames and the engine has the body mounted headlight.
I know that my set is original as it is a boxed set (with no visible number) that I purchased directly from an estate with no other trains.
I know that 7000 series numbers are special sets made by Flyer for various retailers and recall seeing some documentation relating to this fact, possibly in an old TCA quarterly article.
As for the documentation of the 7000 series sets, I currently have 17 numbers recorded in my files, but 2 of those numbers relates to empty O gauge boxes, contents unknown.
In my research, I have only found five 7000 series numbers listed/described in formal paperwork/catalog items. Other sources have been seeing sets that have sold.
If anyone has information on 7000 series sets, I would appreciate the information relating to the set number, source of the number, and what is in the set.
NWL
Here are some pictures of the lighted "PRR" cars in a little better light. None of the cars were purchased as a set, and as mentioned, the baggage car roof is a repainted black roof. The engine is a 3011 with a brown roof. The coach car roof seems to be more maroon, while the observation car is more red. The color of the car bodies looks pretty similar to me.
The truck type is common to all three cars.
Any information about what actual train this catalog illustration was based upon?
It is a great illustration (my current desktop background) and reminds me a little of the Frontenac 3107.
The actual train that is based on is the General Electric T-type locomotive that was built for the NYC railroad. The artwork for that image was owned by the late Maury Romer and was donated to the TCA museum upon his passing in the 1980s.
Thanks for the information NWL.
I did some investigating based on that and found several photos of NYC locos that look similar.
The third pictured locomotive is indeed identified as a T-type. Specifically it pulled the "Cardinal's Train" out of New York City in 1926 when the personal emissary of the Pope travelled from Italy to Chicago to address an international Catholic congress. The Pullman cars were painted red and gold for the occasion.
http://www.themetrains.com/cardinals-train-roster.htm
The artwork that Flyer used, was the actual painting that GE produced for NYC for the actual train. The artist Walter L. Greene, was the Chief Illustrator for both GE and NYC at the time and I believe it was used on one of their calendars. The story is that the head of NYC sent the painting to American Flyer and Flyer used it on the 1925 and 1926 catalogs, with a similar but not identical copy of it being used on the 1927 catalog.
[quote user="Nationwidelines"]
NWL,
If I had had the boxed set less the engine, I would have kept it in my collection. However, I did not have the box. I bought these cars from a friend and sold them before I realized how neat they were. I knew they were from an uncatalogued set, but I didn't think I would find the engine so I let them go. The reference to this set was found in the book "American Flyer Prewar O Gauge" by Alan Schuweiler. He first mentions this set on page 109 when he is listing the different versions of the 3011 midsize boxcab locomotives. Version 'C' states the 3011 maroon body with a black roof if from this set. On page 126 in his listings of the 1206 passenger cars and the 1206 observation cars, he list versions of these two cars that came in this same set. He goes on to state that these cars are in a set in his own collection. Maybe you can get in touch with him and he can provide pictures and additional information. I hope this helps in your quest to document American Flyer 7000 series sets. Have you wrote about the research you have completed so far. I would love to see an article about what you have learned about on these sets.
Thanks, I have seen the reference in Shuweiler's book previously and just never wrote it down. I will ask Alan the next time I see him, which may be this weekend. As for articles about some of these sets see TCA E-train back articles. There are one or two articles covering some 7000 series sets with photos of a couple of sets and the documentation sources for the set numbers.
Nationwidelines strainst: American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set. strainst, I have a nearly identical set in my collection, but the cars have black roofs and the engine that came with the set was a maroon 3012 (ie it had reverse and the 3012 number plate). It is obviously a 1927 set as it has the early frames and the engine has the body mounted headlight. NWL
strainst: American Flyer used brown roofs on their Broadway Limited Set, on an uncatalogued set 7012 and probably other sets. Below are pictures of the cars that came in the 7012 Set.
This is my set of cars that are similar to the ones that strainst has posted. I think these are similar to the ones that NationWideLines has. I've never seen any of these cars with brown roofs. I'm glad you took photos to document them.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Flyer appears to have used numerous colors for roofs on their various cars. Below is an uncataloged set that features a maroon 3112 and three different color cars. The observation has a brown roof in this set. I have seen this set for sale several times over the years and acquired a boxed set, unfortunately with no set number. Note that the observation car uses the 1927 and before frame and the other two cars have the 1928 and after frame.
The title of the painting is "The 20th Century on the Electric Division" so the train is the 20th Century. The painting was, as noted, by Walter Greene but is was not used as calendar art. The calendar paintings were all steam locomotives.
The link below is to the Lake Superior Transportation Museum in Duluth Minnesota. They have an electric locomotive that was built by General Electric and was used on the Milwaukee Road until well into the 1970's. It isn't the same model as the Electric depicted in the painting used for the Flyer Catalog, but it is similar. I believe that it is an EF-1. I have been to the museum many times and its an impressive engine, and collection.
http://www.lsrm.org/Home/exelectric.html
I guess if we are posting about real trains, here is a shot of the E57B that sits in a city park in Harlowton, Montana. I just happened to be riding my Harley along US 12 and was stunned to see this locomotive in the park. Had no clue that Harlowton was the beginning of the electric line.
I would like some help in sorting out some early passenger cars. I am particularly interested in what are referred to in this thread as "wide-low" enamel cars and specifically the 8-wheel versions of those.
I know the 3150, 3161, and 3162 cars of the Frontenac set are this type. I also think that similar (if not identical) cars were part of the Highlander set. These are two-tone green.
I recently found 3171 and 3172 cars which are of this type. I find no mention of 3170 that I imagine would be a baggage car. These are beige and green.
These are all 8-wheel cars.
In an earlier thread the 3140 series was described as this type, but I have only seen pictures of a 4-wheel version.
I had thought the Potomac cars (3180,3181,3182) were 8 wheel wide-low cars and think I remember seeing pictures to confirm that, but I think I have also seen pictures to indicate they are narrower. Were the 3171 and 3172 also Potomac cars?
So, my question is, are there other wide-low 8-wheel passenger cars other than the 3150, 3161, 3162, (3170), 3171, ans 3172? Also, what set(s) did the 3170 series come with - was the Potomac one?
I'm just a bit confused.
I guess I'm also curious why wide-low cars are (apparently) limited to just a few sets. Were they replaced with a different type of car?
Thanks for help with this.
I didn't realize that the Milwaukee Road extended so far West, but see now that it went all the way to the Pacific. I think it is curious that the Milwaukee Road, Great Northern, and Northern Pacific railroads all served much of the same areas at the same times. Must have been more need than one railroad could satisfy.
I also thought electric railroads were more of an East coast to Midwest thing. Wrong about that. The history of railroads is a big part of my interest in model railroads as I'm sure it is with others. It is always fun for me to find connections, particularly with pre-war stuff as that was the time when railroading was at its zenith.
Southern Colorado Marx FlyerI would like some help in sorting out some early passenger cars. I am particularly interested in what are referred to in this thread as "wide-low" enamel cars and specifically the 8-wheel versions of those. I know the 3150, 3161, and 3162 cars of the Frontenac set are this type. I also think that similar (if not identical) cars were part of the Highlander set. These are two-tone green. I recently found 3171 and 3172 cars which are of this type. I find no mention of 3170 that I imagine would be a baggage car. These are beige and green. These are all 8-wheel cars. In an earlier thread the 3140 series was described as this type, but I have only seen pictures of a 4-wheel version. I had thought the Potomac cars (3180,3181,3182) were 8 wheel wide-low cars and think I remember seeing pictures to confirm that, but I think I have also seen pictures to indicate they are narrower. Were the 3171 and 3172 also Potomac cars? So, my question is, are there other wide-low 8-wheel passenger cars other than the 3150, 3161, 3162, (3170), 3171, ans 3172? Also, what set(s) did the 3170 series come with - was the Potomac one? I'm just a bit confused. I guess I'm also curious why wide-low cars are (apparently) limited to just a few sets. Were they replaced with a different type of car? Thanks for help with this.
A nice zen comment NWL.
I am sorry, I wrote a nice post to your question and it did not post
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