For Post-1965 railroad names there will need to be an O-27 proportioned version of a Pacific Car & Foundry 50' Insulated Boxcar or 50' Refrigerator Car. The O-27 Woodsided Reefer is a car that is more appropriate with Steam and very early Diesel Locomotives and there must be very few new railroad names or paint schemes possible. The Pacific Car & Foundry 50' Insulated Boxcars are very common and there has never been an O Gauge or O Scale version. The HO Scale PC&F 50' Insulated Boxcars were not even produced before the year 2000. PC&F Boxcars are conspicuous by their absence in O Gauge. That has to be in the Traditional Line in 2008.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
bfskinner wrote:Rob,Do you know whether it will be in the new catalog due out next week?
Rob,
Do you know whether it will be in the new catalog due out next week?
No, it will not be the one in the catalog. The transformer above was cataloged in 1999. And it was/is a 135 PH-1 brick, I corrected it above.
I bought one of these to check out. It's got the power of a PM-1/PH-1 for conventional, but it has infinite steps instead of 32. The drawback... the dial only has a 90 degree range of motion for 0-18 volts.
Rob
Well, I guess we'll find out all about it on Feb. 1st (when the new catalog comes out). That's a sweet-looking transformer.
- Clint
prewardude wrote:Jim, is this the one?If so, I can't wait to see the specs on it! - Clint
Jim, is this the one?
If so, I can't wait to see the specs on it!
Hey, that's it, Clint! Now that I see it again, it looks more like a 1033 than a TW. So much for the red/orange lettering...And something tells me it will be 125-150 watts, not 175 like I previously stated.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Jumijo wrote:Lionel is indeed coming out with a medium sized transformer that will fit between the CW-80 and the ZW on the power scale. If it works as good as the prototype looks, I'll be buying one.Jim
Lionel is indeed coming out with a medium sized transformer that will fit between the CW-80 and the ZW on the power scale. If it works as good as the prototype looks, I'll be buying one.
ADCX Rob wrote: Kooljock1 wrote:...how hard would it be for them to stick the equivilent of a 180 brick into a KW shell with modern electronic control? They must still have the molds right?...Jon Lionel 180 Watt TransformerWell, it's not quite a KW, but it's got good power. Rob
Kooljock1 wrote:...how hard would it be for them to stick the equivilent of a 180 brick into a KW shell with modern electronic control? They must still have the molds right?...Jon
...how hard would it be for them to stick the equivilent of a 180 brick into a KW shell with modern electronic control? They must still have the molds right?...
Jon
Lionel 180 Watt Transformer
Well, it's not quite a KW, but it's got good power.
The prototype mid range Lionel transformer I saw didn't look like that, although that looks kind cool. It looked sort of, but not exactly like a post war TW, and had roughly the same 175 wattage. I remember the unit having LIONEL written in red or orange art deco lettering.
brianel027 wrote:"It is just the thing to inject new and different people into our hobby and some of those people will buy more track and more trains and become further interested as we are. On the other hand, If Lionel hadn't made a deal for the PE, HP, and Thomas sets, don't you think MTH would be selling the crap out of them!!"Nothing personal, but I think your thinking is off base ogauge. Most of us who are as interested in trains as we are now, started off many years ago with a starter set. And we probably didn't have tons of trains. We probably got a new train item for CHRISTmas or a birthday. This is EXACTLY what Lionel is doing with these new starter sets.
"It is just the thing to inject new and different people into our hobby and some of those people will buy more track and more trains and become further interested as we are. On the other hand, If Lionel hadn't made a deal for the PE, HP, and Thomas sets, don't you think MTH would be selling the crap out of them!!"
Nothing personal, but I think your thinking is off base ogauge. Most of us who are as interested in trains as we are now, started off many years ago with a starter set. And we probably didn't have tons of trains. We probably got a new train item for CHRISTmas or a birthday. This is EXACTLY what Lionel is doing with these new starter sets.
I guess either you missunderstood my post or I don't not write too well....
I stand by the idea that of all the people that have bought PE, HP and Thomas sets, a bunch of them bought them as a first set and further would not have purchased a set otherwise. Those are the people that the standard lionel starter set would not have reached. If I am right, then signing a deal to be allowed to produce those sets was a good idea for Lionel. If I am wrong, well then I guess they are just a lot more popular than the standard starter set...
If my theory above was correct then if any of those "new" hobbyist decided to expand and buy more stuff, a goodly percentage of them would probably look for orange and blue boxes. As was said, Name recognition still is good for Lionel, but heck, its nothing like it must have been in the 50's. Every kid and their parents know what a playstation is today but not everyone knows that toy trains are even still sold let alone who sells them or makes them.... So using current media hotties like the PE, HP, and T are a great idea to attempt to get those otherwise uninterested consumers to become interested.
I'm probably wrong though...
Lionel will remain number one. I am not very interested in MTH stuff, but thats another story to be flamed over.
Given that the "190 watt" KW was rated on INPUT power, and modern transformers are rated on OUTPUT power, this new Lionel offering should be more powerful than a KW, right?
If this is the long-awaited medium power Lionel transformer, some folks (myself included) will be disappointed that it's not all in one module. Still, it looks like an answer to the need for something between the CW-80 and the modern ZW.
Lionel 135 Watt Transformer
"Lionel is indeed coming out with a medium sized transformer that will fit between the CW-80 and the ZW on the power scale. If it works as good as the prototype looks, I'll be buying one."
Jim: how hard would it be for them to stick the equivilent of a 180 brick into a KW shell with modern electronic control? They must still have the molds right?
Kooljock1 wrote:"I wish Lionel would come out with a transformer called a "Baby" CW. Like one without two throttles."Uh, explain this one please? The CW-80 only has one throttle. They make a cheaper version with about half the wattage called a "PowerMax". It is good for a few accessories or maybe a trolley line.Jon
When I read his post Jon, I assumed he meant ZW, as he referred to 2 throttles.
You are right Bob in that it depends on how you define "traditionally sized" and it also depends on which side of that scale you lean towards. Classic Toy Trains did a wonderful article years ago in the famous Neil Young issue called "Scale Is The Thing," which in my opinion warrants updating and reprinting.
They made the following classifications: Small ~ Less than 85% of true scale. Medium ~ 85-93% of true scale. Large ~ 93-99% of true scale. And then full 0 scale. Postwar Lionel items covered the full range of these ratings as do MTH Railking offerings, though the Railking items tend to be larger, even those not called "Scale Railking."
The Railking flat cars and 3 dome tank cars are right in line with Lionel postwar sizes. The Railking box cars are longer, wider and higher than the 6464's as are a number of the other Railking cars. Which doesn't mean they can't or don't look good with more traditionally sized cars. I have a few Railking cars, but I won't have more because of the larger sizes. The Railking operating dump car is a superb looking and operating car: first rate in my eyes. But the dump tray is so much longer than anything else I have, that it requires a special bin from my other dump cars. As much as I think this Railking car is better than any of my Lionel or K-Line spring operated dump cars, I got rid of the MTH one because of the length.
Early MTH Railking locos are also all over the place. The Baatam steamers are undersized and look good on a traditional layout. The smaller short F-3 does too as do a couple of the modern styled locos like the SD-45 and the SD90 MAC. Others like the Dash-8 and SD60 are a little more shoebox like in their selective compression, and not nearly as nicely proportioned for a traditional layout with 027 leanings.
I won't even bring up the electronics. To me traditional is this department is traditional, and I won't pay more for MTH electronics that I will only rip out of the loco.
Mike Wolf said early on he had no interest in making the smaller undersized kinds of cars Lionel made. Years later I read some positive comments Mike made about the then new Industrial Rail line... he too must have noticed how well these cars were doing in the market. It was after this that MTH introduced the Rugged Rails line. Whether it sold well or not I don't know. I do know MTH has not done much with the line. UMD Industrial Rail did far more, and now Atlas is taking the line to greater offerings. By the way, the Railbox Rugged Rails box car is the best looking of them all as compared to other similarly sized offerings. I'd own more Rugged Rails if they'd only bothered to make them.
Nothing against MTH, but I believe Mike has made a marketing move to go towards the more scale oriented crowd. I lilke the quality and graphics of my MTH Railking cars, but I've also gone to some trouble to make them smaller: I've changed the mountings on the box cars and made new frames so that they ride lower. I cut down the height of my PS-2 Conrail Hopper (a very nice looking car) so that it looks better with my other more traditionally sized cars.
So I agree with you Bob, it's a matter of taste as far as size. And there are other companies doing far more in my tastes to get my purchases than MTH.
As on final thought on the "SCALE" thing, I go back to my artist days. When you paint with water colors, the medium itself doesn't lend itself to the same realism you can attain with oil or acrylic paints. With water colors, you throw away the "realism" ruler and go for "FEEL." That's how I look at my 027 trains... I go for "feel" of how they look on the layout with the other smaller cars.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
ogauge wrote: How about Von Ryan's Express!
How about Von Ryan's Express!
This is one of the best train related movies I have ever seen (in my opinion). I asked Lionel a while back if they intended on making a set based on it or something. However I don't recall their answer. No doubt though that it would be a great model.
ogauge wrote: If your going to do British steam, it starts with the Mallard for me the steam record of 126 mph still stands.
If your going to do British steam, it starts with the Mallard for me the steam record of 126 mph still stands.
As far as this goes, the Mallard would be a good choice for Lionel to make, yet it would be wise to wait until after 3rd Rail releases their version. Another engine they could go with might be the City of Turo (the first engine to break 100 mph in Britain).
Give me steam locomotives or give me DEATH!
Berkshire Junction, bringing fourth the cry of the Iron Horse since 1900.
Since they've made an SD70ACe, I think they should make some more for other railroads besides UP, like BNSF, CSX, Montana Rail Link, etc. And they should show actual photographs of the prototype model, instead of photos of the real engines. I'd go for that.
I would also like to see a TrainMaster command set with a new LionMaster diesel locomotive. Maybe it could be an Amtrak set with a LionMaster Genesis locomotive in the Phase V paint scheme with RailSounds, two AmFleet coaches and an AmFleet cafe car. Then throw in an oval of O48 FasTrack, a CW-80, and you've got a pretty good set there. I bet it would be very popular.
For the LionMaster General Electric Locomotive the best two choices are these:
AC4400CW because it is a contemporary to the SD90MAC.
DASH 8 40C and 40CW since the previous model of the DASH 8 40C built by Lionel between 1992-1998 was made too tall to clear most accessories and did not have details like they could make now.
Andrew,The current MPC-era Lionel Corrugated Autorack is already so undersized I'd already consider it in the Lionmaster category. Most folks who run traditional equipment don't want long 16"+ cars, so I don't see Lionel redoing it.A LionMaster version of the Dash-9, however, would be quite popular since an affordable TMCC modern diesel is lacking in Lionel's roster. If it was scaled down to around 15 1/2"-16" long, I could see that version fitting nicely next to the Lionmaster SD-90.
Geno
lionroar88 wrote:I just hope it is in color. I won't be buying any new engines or rolling stock this year so as long as it is in color I'll be happy!
Not just color, old chum. Living color!
brianel027 wrote: MTH just is not interested in the traditionally sized operator, and make scant little for them.
MTH just is not interested in the traditionally sized operator, and make scant little for them.
That all depends on how you define "traditionally sized". According to the way Lionel describes things in their catalogs, a traditional locomotive "Can run on any O-gauge track curve, even O-27 (unless noted otherwise)." Even Lionel says that not all traditional locomotives can run on O27 track. MTH's RailKing trains are traditionally-sized trains, then - some can negotiate O27 curves, some cannot. Most need O31, but that's not much bigger. MTH does, then, make plenty of trains for traditional operators.
If you think traditional trains are just O27, then, yes, you won't find very many trains from MTH that can negotiate O27 curves. But RailKing trains are traditionally sized just as much as Lionel traditional locomotives are.
In the LionMaster series there could be an Auto Carrier with Corrugated Screens that is S Scale length and height. It could be constructed in a manner similar to the Red Caboose N Scale Auto Carrier that has perforated metal screens and opening doors. There could be the accessory of a matching S Scale Auto Loading Ramp. It is possible.
The LionMaster General Electric 40C-8 or DASH 8 40C Diesel-Electric Locomotive has to at least be announced in a 2008 catalog. The LionMaster SD90MAC can not be the only Diesel in the series.
Andrew Falconer
Brianel,
Very well said, something that I would love to see MTH reissue is the Rugged Rails 027 Madison passenger cars, have you seen these? They are one of the few items that I actually prefer to the Lionel model. And can you believe it, they did them in Central of New Jersey, but NO Santa Fe versions. I'm in the process of painting (got that part done) and decaling(I've GOT the decals, it's a start right?) some in Santa Fe for my Nephew.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
And not to knock MTH, but there's no way MTH could be selling "the crap out of them." Aside from what's been said, that Lionel is the name more recognizable to a newcomer, MTH just won't make the kinds of trains that interest a large number of operators. How is it that MTH has been around longer, yet myself and many I know have more Industrial Rail products than MTH? Or have more RMT products than MTH products? Or have more Williams products than MTH? MTH has been around longer than Industrial Rail or RMT, and they're certainly a bigger company than Williams. So how can I and others own more of those other brands than MTH?? The reason is by MTH's own doing.
MTH just is not interested in the traditionally sized operator, and make scant little for them. Anymore Rugged Rails items are not even listed in their catalog, which makes looking at their catalog a breeze for me: I go to the table of contents, see Rugged Rails not listed, and I'm done looking. And for all the years the Rugged Rails line has been around, MTH has introduced very little new product. In the same time frame, Lionel has introduced far far more than MTH. INdustrial Rail has introduced far more than MTH.
Hey look, the Rugged Rails SD90MAC is the best selectively reduced modern loco MTH ever made. I love the proportions and look of that loco,yet they WON'T make it. They cataloged a horn only version without the additional electronics, and then raised the list price $30. I'm sorry but the list should have lowered by $30 if not more. Then they cancelled them all anyways... no surprise there.
From the figures I read, Lionel's sales are almost double that of MTH. And a good bulk of Lionel's sales are from TRADITIONALLY sized trains, which MTH refuses to make. So for guys like me, we have Lionel, K-Line, Atlas Industrial Rail, Ready Made Toys and Williams by Bachmann to choose from... MTH isn't even on the list.
I know you'd never know it from reading the train forums, but the bread and butter of this 3-rail hobby is in the traditionally sized 0/027 operator. And that's the truth. Otherwise all the companies would be making ten's of thousands of high end trains instead of the one or two thousand runs they are usually made in.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
How about Von Ryan's Express! The 19 would also, be cool, you could also have a water tower with A #1 on the 19 as well... Unfortuantely, that ones just not popular enough unless your a natural foamer (train freak).
I've always thought they could make a neat starter set for example for the Tennesse Valley Railroad museum for their pass train. They used to have some good maroon multi colored passenger cars and a matching GP-9 that pulled it (that was a long time ago!).
I think its great that Lionel did Hogwarts and the PE. Do I own them?. no, but look at all the people who got them that might not have started in trains at all. The broader the fan base for a hobby the better it is for everyone.
I think Lionel could do a whole series of "trains of film". My first request would be for Shack's train from the Emperor of the North.
Tower talk- "Shacks going to highball through the yard!"
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