2008 Lionel Catalog

[Berk765]

Does anyone know when the new Lionel catalogs come out?

[MartyE]

As of now 9 days 5 hours 9 minutes and 3 seconds

[SchemerBob]

Yep, it'll be out on February 1st (actually a little earlier if you want to stay up late).

As always, I hope Lionel will finally come out with an Amtrak Genesis locomotive. I really don't care what paint scheme at this point as long as it's Amtrak...it still boggles my mind why Lionel hasn't come out with one of those locomotives in the past 15 years the real ones have been on the road.

Really, Lionel will probably add to the Harry Potter Hogwarts Express and not much else will change. That might be a little over dramatic, but I don't like all the hype that's been created over that train ...the train itself is okay but...well, I won't go into all of the details this time.

But I hope I'm wrong this time. Maybe Lionel will finally come out with something that I really get excited about. Don't get me wrong, any Lionel product is better than no Lionel product (yes, even the Hogwarts Express) but I think many people want realistic and modern trains from the United States rather than a fictional British train. They don't have to be top-of-the-line or anything, just enough so they look real. Maybe some more "LionMaster" offerings are in order. It doesn't matter. I just hope Lionel comes out with some new modern trains. The new catalog being released is always neat, but this being a new year I hope Lionel does some new things!!

[bfskinner]

See top of page, right side:

         http://www.lionel.com/

 

[Jumijo]

 

I think that the Hogwarts Express was just the first of Lionel's vintage european trains. At least I hope that's the case. Just a hunch. I've heard a new mid level transformer is in the works as well.

While I'm as anxious as anyone else to see the 2008 Lionel catalogs, I can't help but notice how much product featured in the 2007 cats haven't been delivered yet. I've been waiting for one item since last April. Why are all those products delayed?  And what kind of delays can we expect in the coming year?

The new catalogs are always fun to flip through. But I consider myself fortunate to have just about all the trains I want.

Jim 

[Brutus]

http://www.ogaugewatch.com/ogaugewatchcom/2008/01/whats-new-from.html#more

[jefelectric]

Bob, I agree, the last several Lionel catalogs have not had a lot that interested me.  The bright side is that it saved me money.

[tomosap]

...but I think many people want realistic and modern trains from the United States rather than a fictional British train....

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but the Hogwarts Express is actually a real train that runs on a preserved Steam railway in Nothern England - the nameplates were changed for the movie, but the locomotive itself is part of a tourist attraction. I can see your point, but wanted to clarify that, to British people (of which there is a sizeable population who buy North American O Gauge products - myself included) it's quite appealing that locomotives such as this are being modelled in this gauge - in fact, the more the merrier!.

Also, I guess you can't blame Lionel for jumping on the hype-bandwagon and wanting to exploit an obvious marketing opportunity

Just my 2 cents worth.

Tom

[brianel027]

I personally think they should wait until a little later in the year to issue the catalog. Of course, there's the Toy Fair in NYC, so much of the reason it's released in February is right there.

Lionel is still behind on a number of products, and the vast majority of K-Lionel products were months behind release. The S-2 switcher, originally scheduled for a May shipping still isn't out, with a January 08 date now. And many other products just barely made it out during December, months behind when they were scheduled. Not very good for a product line aimed at newcomers and budget enthusiasts.

I don't fault Lionel one bit for Hogwarts or Polar Express. These are the kinds of products that have the potential to start new railroaders. I think Lionel would do very very well to issue a newly tooled modern 027-ized Dash-8 type diesel, along the lines of the 1950's Alco FA in proportion. I really think this is the kind of product, that if reasonbly priced, could be a much bigger hit that anyone suspects. I also think a beginners stripped down simlified version of command control that could be affordably included with every train set would also be a big hit. But it is a balancing act: where does/should Lionel put their investment captial?

The brew-ha-ha raised over these two trains sets has been a little over the top... they're starter trains sets! Don't like it? Don't buy it. Lionel needs to reach other customers other than the established (and sometimes very unforgiving) customers they have. The fact Polar Express sold over 100,000 sets speaks for itself... no high end scale product has ever come even remotely close to that figure. I'm sure the sales of the regular ordinary starter sets, and the add-on packages do proportionately as well.

The thing is the hobby is so polarized in some respects between the wants of the scale enthusiasts and the traditional operator. Needless to say, the adults who want precision precise scale products are far more vocal about this than a new customer who is just starting in the hobby. So Lionel has a tough balancing act on their hands, not just with pleasing ALL their customers, but with dealing with their financial limitations.

I have little question there will be some neat and new stuff in the next catalog. I also have little question, giving the demanding nature of the market today, that some will not be totally happy with the catalog. But if Lionel can strike a balance, as I think they have been trying to do, then the majority of folks looking to buy new trains will find something they like.

[ChiefEagles]

Bob, I agree, the last several Lionel catalogs have not had a lot that interested me.  The bright side is that it saved me money.

  More NS

[wrmcclellan]

As of now 9 days 5 hours 9 minutes and 3 seconds

But who's counting...

[ogauge]

If they really sold over 100,000 PE sets, that is probably the best thing to happen to the O gage hobby in quite a while.  It is just the thing to inject new and different people into our hobby and some of those people will buy more track and more trains and become further interested as we are.  On the other hand, If Lionel hadn't made a deal for the PE, HP, and Thomas sets, don't you think MTH would be selling the crap out of them!!  Its almost as if they need to make deals like these to ensure MTH does not??  First one to the punch wins big!  Am I off base?

BTW, I do like the HP set, I wish the cars were a little beefier but as has been said many times, it is just a starter set! as is the PE.  They are a steal for the $200 or so that many are buying them for.

As far as the catalog, I'd love to see some PRR stuff (what more!!), a Gordon would be nice, but I won't hold my breath.

I'd like to see an AF 326 or 312 remade like they did with the 336, I figure that is more likely if the 336 sold well.

Maybe they will come out with a CARS set with the diesel that almost hits Mcqueen in the begining and some of the autos on flat cars...

 

 

 

 

[LS1Heli]

any Lionel product is better than no Lionel product

More like any Lionel product is better than any MTH product.

[Jumijo]

 

I'd buy a Gordon if it was offered, and if it wasn't shortened the way James was.

Looks like the race is on to build euro trains of the past. MTH is making the Flying Scotsman.

Jim 

[msacco]

I do not think that if MTH had made the PE it would have sold nearly as well. No reflection on MTH as they make great stuff, they are just sorely lacking in the brand name department. Starter set buyers are really only familiar with one name unless a hobby shop introduces them to the other.

Mike S.

[SchemerBob]

...but I think many people want realistic and modern trains from the United States rather than a fictional British train....

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but the Hogwarts Express is actually a real train that runs on a preserved Steam railway in Nothern England - the nameplates were changed for the movie, but the locomotive itself is part of a tourist attraction. I can see your point, but wanted to clarify that, to British people (of which there is a sizeable population who buy North American O Gauge products - myself included) it's quite appealing that locomotives such as this are being modelled in this gauge - in fact, the more the merrier!.

Also, I guess you can't blame Lionel for jumping on the hype-bandwagon and wanting to exploit an obvious marketing opportunity

Just my 2 cents worth.

Tom

Yep, you're right. The "Hogwarts Express" is the only thing that's fictional, not the train itself.

One reason why I really hope Lionel comes out with some new really cool trains is because I believe they are actually a little better than the MTH's. I have a LionMaster SD80 and it is excellent, while both of my MTH engines broke down once each.

[mdainsd]

I think its great that Lionel did Hogwarts and the PE. Do I own them?. no, but look at all the people who got them that might not have started in trains at all. The broader the fan base for a hobby the better it is for everyone.

 

I think Lionel could do a whole series of "trains of film".  My first request would be for Shack's train from the Emperor of the North.

Tower talk- "Shacks going to highball through the yard!" 

[ogauge]

How about Von Ryan's Express!  The 19 would also, be cool, you could also have a water tower with A #1 on the 19 as well...  Unfortuantely, that ones just not popular enough unless your a natural foamer (train freak). 

 

I've always thought they could make a neat starter set for example for the Tennesse Valley Railroad museum for their pass train.  They used to have some good maroon multi colored passenger cars and a matching GP-9 that pulled it (that was a long time ago!).

If your going to do British steam, it starts with the Mallard for me the steam record of 126 mph still stands.

[ChiefEagles]

I'll be adding on the Thomas I'm sure.  The Grandson will want then all.

[brianel027]

"It is just the thing to inject new and different people into our hobby and some of those people will buy more track and more trains and become further interested as we are.  On the other hand, If Lionel hadn't made a deal for the PE, HP, and Thomas sets, don't you think MTH would be selling the crap out of them!!"

Nothing personal, but I think your thinking is off base ogauge. Most of us who are as interested in trains as we are now, started off many years ago with a starter set. And we probably didn't have tons of trains. We probably got a new train item for CHRISTmas or a birthday. This is EXACTLY what Lionel is doing with these new starter sets.

And not to knock MTH, but there's no way MTH could be selling "the crap out of them." Aside from what's been said, that Lionel is the name more recognizable to a newcomer, MTH just won't make the kinds of trains that interest a large number of operators. How is it that MTH has been around longer, yet myself and many I know have more Industrial Rail products than MTH? Or have more RMT products than MTH products? Or have more Williams products than MTH? MTH has been around longer than Industrial Rail or RMT, and they're certainly a bigger company than Williams. So how can I and others own more of those other brands than MTH?? The reason is by MTH's own doing.

MTH just is not interested in the traditionally sized operator, and make scant little for them. Anymore Rugged Rails items are not even listed in their catalog, which makes looking at their catalog a breeze for me: I go to the table of contents, see Rugged Rails not listed, and I'm done looking. And for all the years the Rugged Rails line has been around, MTH has introduced very little new product. In the same time frame, Lionel has introduced far far more than MTH. INdustrial Rail has introduced far more than MTH.

Hey look, the Rugged Rails SD90MAC is the best selectively reduced modern loco MTH ever made. I love the proportions and look of that loco,yet they WON'T make it. They cataloged a horn only version without the additional electronics, and then raised the list price $30. I'm sorry but the list should have lowered by $30 if not more. Then they cancelled them all anyways... no surprise there.

From the figures I read, Lionel's sales are almost double that of MTH. And a good bulk of Lionel's sales are from TRADITIONALLY sized trains, which MTH refuses to make. So for guys like me, we have Lionel, K-Line, Atlas Industrial Rail, Ready Made Toys and Williams by Bachmann to choose from... MTH isn't even on the list.

I know you'd never know it from reading the train forums, but the bread and butter of this 3-rail hobby is in the traditionally sized 0/027 operator. And that's the truth. Otherwise all the companies would be making ten's of thousands of high end trains instead of the one or two thousand runs they are usually made in.

[challenger3980]

Brianel,

   Very well said, something that I would love to see MTH reissue is the Rugged Rails 027 Madison passenger cars, have you seen these? They are one of the few items that I actually prefer to the Lionel model. And can you believe it, they did them in Central of New Jersey, but NO Santa Fe versions. I'm in the process of painting (got that part done) and decaling(I've GOT the decals, it's a start right?) some in Santa Fe for my Nephew.

                                  Doug

[Andrew Falconer]

The LionMaster General Electric 40C-8 or DASH 8 40C Diesel-Electric Locomotive has to at least be announced in a 2008 catalog. The LionMaster SD90MAC can not be the only Diesel in the series.

Andrew Falconer

[Andrew Falconer]

In the LionMaster series there could be an Auto Carrier with Corrugated Screens that is S Scale length and height. It could be constructed in a manner similar to the Red Caboose N Scale Auto Carrier that has perforated metal screens and opening doors. There could be the accessory of a matching S Scale Auto Loading Ramp. It is possible.

Andrew

[SchemerBob]

MTH just is not interested in the traditionally sized operator, and make scant little for them.

That all depends on how you define "traditionally sized". According to the way Lionel describes things in their catalogs, a traditional locomotive "Can run on any O-gauge track curve, even O-27 (unless noted otherwise)." Even Lionel says that not all traditional locomotives can run on O27 track. MTH's RailKing trains are traditionally-sized trains, then - some can negotiate O27 curves, some cannot. Most need O31, but that's not much bigger. MTH does, then, make plenty of trains for traditional operators.

If you think traditional trains are just O27, then, yes, you won't find very many trains from MTH that can negotiate O27 curves. But RailKing trains are traditionally sized just as much as Lionel traditional locomotives are.

[Anonymous]

I just hope it is in color. I won't be buying any new engines or rolling stock this year so as long as it is in color I'll be happy!

[Jumijo]

I just hope it is in color. I won't be buying any new engines or rolling stock this year so as long as it is in color I'll be happy!

Not just color, old chum. Living color! 

[Geno]

Andrew,
The current MPC-era Lionel Corrugated Autorack is already so undersized I'd already consider it in the Lionmaster category. Most folks who run traditional equipment don't want long 16"+ cars, so I don't see Lionel redoing it.

A LionMaster version of the Dash-9, however, would be quite popular since an affordable TMCC modern diesel is lacking in Lionel's roster. If it was scaled down to around 15 1/2"-16" long, I could see that version fitting nicely next to the Lionmaster SD-90.

Geno

[Andrew Falconer]

For the LionMaster General Electric Locomotive the best two choices are these:

AC4400CW because it is a contemporary to the SD90MAC.

DASH 8 40C and 40CW since the previous model of the DASH 8 40C built by Lionel between 1992-1998 was made too tall to clear most accessories and did not have details like they could make now. 

Andrew

[SchemerBob]

Since they've made an SD70ACe, I think they should make some more for other railroads besides UP, like BNSF, CSX, Montana Rail Link, etc. And they should show actual photographs of the prototype model, instead of photos of the real engines. I'd go for that.

I would also like to see a TrainMaster command set with a new LionMaster diesel locomotive. Maybe it could be an Amtrak set with a LionMaster Genesis locomotive in the Phase V paint scheme with RailSounds, two AmFleet coaches and an AmFleet cafe car. Then throw in an oval of O48 FasTrack, a CW-80, and you've got a pretty good set there. I bet it would be very popular.

[Berk765]

I wish Lionel would come out with a transformer called a "Baby" CW. Like one without two throttles.