Lionels Quality...How Good Is It?

[EJN]

 

Every manufacturer has problems.  QC in China is what I say is the problem.    

Lionel management has the same problem most importers do. In my business we've been burned depending on chinese plant managers to be quality control police.  Lionel is responisible for the 'delivered quality' to the consumer.    We shouldn't give Lionel a pass just because its made in another country by a vendor of their choosing.

We accept this since it is the best available at the price offered.

[EJN]

I recomend that you start out with the 6-30066 Chesapeake & Ohio Empire Builder.

+1 Yea why mess around with pedestrian crap, get the best.

[Anonymous]

I recomend that you start out with the 6-30066 Chesapeake & Ohio Empire Builder.

 

Thanks for the suggestion but that set is not sold by Menards, Hobby Lobby or Target.

 TMT

[ChiefEagles]

Tops.  I have a lot of Lionel and Atlas.  A few MTH.  I have fallen out with MTH over Realtrax switches.  They still make good trains.  Every manufacturer has problems.  QC in China is what I say is the problem.  Speaking of Penn Flyer.  Got the loco and tender.  Got it as a set breakup.  Thought it would be poor quality.  Got it on the track, ran good and would pull like "all get out".  Smoke was off.  Found wire almost off of smoke unit.  Re-soldered it and she smoked you out of the room.  Gave it [along with a 4X6 plywood layout] to a kid last week as a starter set for him. 

[billbarman]

The quality of that penn flyer set should be pretty good, I have an NYC flyer which is basicly the same engine with some different freight cars, it funs nice and dosnt have any problems as far as im concerned. It came with some alright rolling stock too.

[LS1Heli]

I recomend that you start out with the 6-30066 Chesapeake & Ohio Empire Builder.

[anjdevil2]

I recommend either the Pennsy or the NYC,based on actual ownership and value (bang for d buck), to my customers.

Just can't go wrong either way 

[Jumijo]

We have the NYC Flyer set and love it. The passenger set at Menards is one I'd buy in a heart beat.

Jim

[Anonymous]

Interesting discussion...

Based on actual ownership, what Lionel starter sets does the group recommend?

As I have access through relatives to Target, Hobby Lobby and Menards (each store has two different starter sets), which sets that they offer would you recommend?

The Polar Express is not available from any of these stores within the store.

Thanks

TMT

[Anonymous]

The Target diesel 'Super set' (ironic name) reminds me alot of the MPC-era junk I started out with- a stripped-down set with a cheap, underpowered engine, transformer, and unlighted passenger cars. At least the MPC-era passenger cars were lit. I could easily see how a newbie could buy this set, based on price, and discover the lack of quality present in other Lionel starter sets, past or present. The only good thing about it is you get a loop of Fastrack.  I can foresee a pile of these sets coming back to Target after the holidays.

The Polar Express isn't cheap by comparison, but judging by the newbie reviews they were definitely alot more happy in terms of expections and performance. And with all of media exposure, extra add-ons, and word-of-mouth referals this set has had, it will continue to be a good seller for Lionel for years to come.

I'd say most of Lionel's starter sets are much better in quality than their offerings from 10-20 years ago (with the exception of the Target diesel super set).

It's unfortunate the typical first time Lionel train set buyer doesn't do a bit more research before picking up that set, so that they can get what they want and not feel ripped off or mislead. The defective transformers and engines don't help Lionel's reputation for first-time buyers who get a set with defective components, but this problem is unfortunately an all too common occurence with today's cheaply produced consumer elcetonics.

I believe that alot of these newbies are also having difficulty just putting the track together, putting all of the wheels on the track, hooking up the transformer, etc. (based on my observation of three families whose train sets I helped set up), so naturally their trains aren't running very well. But it is encouraging to see more folks using resources such as this forum to learn more about our hobby, gettting help from LHSs, forums, and train clubs to learn how to keep our trains running, and basically getting excited about model trains- that is nice to see.

Geno

 

Thanks for a good overview.

 In reference to this set, is the engine the part that is considered "junk" and if so, why is it?

Would a better offering be Lionel's Southwestern Diesel set?

TMT

[sir james I]

Well at least if you call Lionel, someone answers the phone.

[EJN]

Lionel Quality....How Good Is It?

Well, let me put it this way. In order for the current generation Lionel company/management to compete and suceed in the automobile industry.  All the other companies would have to execute on the level of the 1980's  'Yugo' car company.. 

Lionel needs more deep pocketed competitors and quality conscious customers.  Lionel only does an adequate job given the competition and customer base.

 

 

[bfskinner]

Railroader_Sailor,

Interesting and frustrating history, to say the least. Based on the date alone, the CW80 that you bought in 2003 had to be one of the early ones. You say it "was DOA," but your friend "fixed it."

1. Was it completely dead (no green light, no fan, no response) or just very bizzare in its behavior?

2. What did your friend do to fix it?

3. Did he have to open the case to do it?

4. Were the other CW80's old or Revised ones?

[Geno]

The Target diesel 'Super set' (ironic name) reminds me alot of the MPC-era junk I started out with- a stripped-down set with a cheap, underpowered engine, transformer, and unlighted passenger cars. At least the MPC-era passenger cars were lit. I could easily see how a newbie could buy this set, based on price, and discover the lack of quality present in other Lionel starter sets, past or present. The only good thing about it is you get a loop of Fastrack.  I can foresee a pile of these sets coming back to Target after the holidays.

The Polar Express isn't cheap by comparison, but judging by the newbie reviews they were definitely alot more happy in terms of expections and performance. And with all of media exposure, extra add-ons, and word-of-mouth referals this set has had, it will continue to be a good seller for Lionel for years to come.

I'd say most of Lionel's starter sets are much better in quality than their offerings from 10-20 years ago (with the exception of the Target diesel super set).

It's unfortunate the typical first time Lionel train set buyer doesn't do a bit more research before picking up that set, so that they can get what they want and not feel ripped off or mislead. The defective transformers and engines don't help Lionel's reputation for first-time buyers who get a set with defective components, but this problem is unfortunately an all too common occurence with today's cheaply produced consumer elcetonics.

I believe that alot of these newbies are also having difficulty just putting the track together, putting all of the wheels on the track, hooking up the transformer, etc. (based on my observation of three families whose train sets I helped set up), so naturally their trains aren't running very well. But it is encouraging to see more folks using resources such as this forum to learn more about our hobby, gettting help from LHSs, forums, and train clubs to learn how to keep our trains running, and basically getting excited about model trains- that is nice to see.

Geno

[palallin]

Junk?  Not really.  Being the product of human beings, some of their trains will have problems, just as some of ANY product line will have problems. 

I've got Lionel products that were made last year and some that were made when my Dad was a little boy (early '30s) and some from just about every decade in between.  Some pieces have been flawed from the beginning, and some have been very good.  I have gotten great service from just about everything I've ever owned with Lionel's name on it.  Probably the most hassles i've had came from late postwar era and Scouts.  I've had great experiences with MPC and LTI (with the partial exception of a piece made by MTH under the Lionel name which came with a serious but easily fixed flaw).

[anjdevil2]

MY opinion....he has no idea what he's doing.  I saw this set in Target and was not impressed.

The steam set seemed to be of better quality.  I thought the diesel didn't sit well on the chassis and looked just plain ugly.

I'm in the car business....and let me tell you, God don't make cars(bad english, I know), 'cause ifn he DID, I'd be out of a job.  It's the same with EVERYTHING!!!!!  Most times you get good stuff, sometimes a worker has a bad day.  Nothings purfect 'cept GOD!

I agree, the internet amplifies man stupidity...

[BMRR]

To cut to the chase, does Lionel put out junk?

I've had great service from "ALL"  my Lionel trains.

 

 

[LS1Heli]

The Internet really amplifies the absolute deepest stupidity of the human race. I would not believe the comment for a second. The train doesn't fit the track when the indiviual doesn't install it correctly on the track.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the comments.

You might want to look at this comment...is it believeable?

 http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000RH6QHW/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Also are there any other sites that have buyer's reviews on Lionel starter kits?

 

Thanks

TMT

 

[Anonymous]

To cut to the chase, does Lionel put out junk?

Yes, that would be correct. Most company's that have been around for 100+ years mainly produce junk. 

All companies make some junk...I am trying to make sure that I don't buy any of it.

 

TMT

[Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760]

The first set that I bought new, was the Pennsy Flyer back in 2003.

The store I bought the train from allowed me to trade the fasttrack for traditional O-27 track.

The transformer was DOA. It did not work. I traded it for a pair of smaller PW transformers to a freind who was able to fix the CW-80. 

The cars still look very nice and run well, couplers still intact.

The loco and tender did not fair out so well. The tender's rollers bounced around, making intermittent contact with the track, to the point where it could not traverse crossovers. The spring return on the rollers failed.

As this was my second O-27 loco at the time, I did not have any reference points to judge the loco.

The loco itself had several poor quality solder jobs, one of the leads to the motor came off, and leads from the reverse unit came off.

The loco still runs, but it has needed an extensive amount of work.

Since then, I bought a few more sets with the CW-80, and my wife bought a few more CW-80s at a train show, based on the solid performance of the CW-80 in the Polar Express set.

The Polar Express CW-80 works, another was DOA, and 2 more have fans that make a lot of noise.

Then comes the XMas sound boxcar, whose trucks do not care for staying on the car. (It was only run around the tree a few times, until I became too fed up with running it. I use Fasttrack for the Xmas tree, and for break-in use.  

Then comes the Lionel Chessie GP-38. I bought it just over a year ago. For the first month, the  loco ran fairly well. It liked to derail itself on curves, even on O-42. I compared it against my Southern GP-38, and I found that the front truck was on too tight. The washer used under the snap ring holding the truck on was too thick. I replaced it with a thinner washer, and it ran fine for a short while. Then the reverse unit failed.

Lightly shaking the loco up and down sometimes would get the unit to work. Emphasis on sometimes.

I checked the leads going to and from the card, and they were on tight. The solder job on the card was, how should I say, about as ugly as my mother in law.

I have attended ETMS, a Navy school that teaches proper solder techniques and methods. None of the solder joints would pass an ETMS inspection. (Too much solder, too little, cracked solder jobs, etc.)

I contacted Lionel to get the wiring diagram for the card, so I can troubleshoot it, so far, I have gotten nothing.

I know I can pay $13 for a new card, but I want to know what failed on the card, and I would rather have a card that I have re-soldered and fixed, than a low-quality factory original.

Then comes the final contestant: my Lionel New York Central RS-3 8226. I pulled the loco out of the box (I had just bought her brand new from Charles Ro), and one of the rear truck's wheels fell off and into the box.

I had to pull apart the loco and used a vise to re-apply the wheel. I has not come off again so far.

I would have to say about a 1/4 of new Lionel purchases I make have had some sort of issue, from easily fixed problems to issues that make me question Lionel's quality control.

 

[phillyreading]

Lionel has put out some junk in the past 14 years even with the new owners, Jerry Calabrese, case in point is the #6-23010 O gauge tubular switch-as it is design flawed from the word go and keeps finding new ways to malfunction before it finally quits working.  Also from that time is an uncataloged Illinios Central GP-7 that has only one motor and won't pull more than three post war quad hoppers at a good rate of speed.

Not sure how any of the new stuff works and the quality of Lionel today as Lionel has scared me away from buying the new Lionel stuff because of the quality issues from a few years back.

Lee F.

[LS1Heli]

To cut to the chase, does Lionel put out junk?

Yes, that would be correct. Most company's that have been around for 100+ years mainly produce junk. 

[Jumijo]

...My only gripe with the PE, and maybe mine just isn't broken in yet, when you drop the voltage quickly or cycle the direction button is stops on a dime, sometimes enough to jostle the cars off track.  I've had it apart and it does have a flywheel on the can motor.  As I said mine either isn't broken in yet, or the flywheel isn't heavy enough....

Our's is 3 years old and it does the same thing. It never coasts to a stop, and I know for sure that it has the flywheel. It does start smoothly though and runs well at low voltage.

Jim 

[eness76]

I would agree with the replies above, the Pennsylvania Flyer is a very nice set.  In direct comparision the the Polar Express, the PE locomotive is much larger and heavier, very much like the post war berkshires.  My only gripe with the PE, and maybe mine just isn't broken in yet, when you drop the voltage quickly or cycle the direction button is stops on a dime, sometimes enough to jostle the cars off track.  I've had it apart and it does have a flywheel on the can motor.  As I said mine either isn't broken in yet, or the flywheel isn't heavy enough.  My pennsy has much more time on it, but it coasts much nicer on Voltage chop, as my 2yr old has a tendency to do.  You can't go wrong with either set.  My PA Flyer was my way back into the hobby after years of running as a kid, and I have since purchased pre-post war and marx units, but the PA flyer still gets run.  I'm would hope anyone you gave a set to would be greatly appreciative.

[Anonymous]

I wonder where these people stored their train sets...

My guess is:
1. some where with EXTREME temperature changes (in an uninsulated storage space above a garage or attic)
2. some where with wide ranges in humidity

I have had items in storage for years and taken them out and they still work flawlessly... betcha it is storage and or handling... as for the comment on FasTrack being difficult to assemble... ummm... yeah... right...

I switched to Atlas 21st Century O and where I really like it, it is much more delicate than I originally thought... see my review thread for more information.

[anjdevil2]

I have and currently own the Pnnsy Flyer, NY Central Flyer and the Polar Express.

I had trouble with 1 CW80 Transformer, had it swapped out for another one and work great.

I sold the one from the Pennsy set, the new owner has had no trouble with it as well, and the Polar Express one is fine as well.

The Pennsy is a great traditional value set.  In my opinion, it is a GREAT starter set & I run it a lot.    I also recommend it to my customers that have smaller kids.  It takes tha abuse and keeps on running. My FIRST MODERN set was the NYC with Train Sounds.  Another great value, just makes more noise than the Pennsy.  The Polar is a very nice heavy engine that reminds me of the PostWar engines I have purchased lately.  The cars are very nicely detailed and the engine is a thing of beauty.  I am not happy with the tender, sounds hollow, but I can fix that.  It's not a big deal.

I have yet to see any real problems with the above sets.  The details are nice and the engines and tenders run very well.  When my Polar is completely broken in, I'm sure it'll run as good if not better than my 2 lower priced sets.  Safe to say that I am very happy and pleased with my Modern day Lionels!!!

[Joe Hohmann]

I can't speak of the PA Flyer, since I don't own one (ever notice that some people have "expert" opinions on things they have no personal experiance with, like CW80's and FasTrack?). I do have the Polar Express and the Harry Potter sets, and feel that the quality/price combination is excellent. Joe

[nblum]

I agree, the negative reviews are thinly disguised disinformation from someone with an agenda.  The Pennsylvania Flyer is a good value and one of the most, if not most economical sets available on the market right now.  Lionel's quality these days is superior to what it was 20 years ago, for sure, and as good as any I've seen in model railroading.  That doesn't mean they don't ever have problems or turkeys.  In any case, not everyone has the money for or needs command control, sophisticated sounds, etc. and the Pennsylvania Flyer provides an entry point in the hobby for many folks who wouldn't or cannot consider more expensive sets.

[Jumijo]

Lionel's quality is pretty high in my opinion. And the sets are priced lower than the competition. I have several starter and ready to run sets and can't say anything bad about any of them. Both the Flyer and the Polar Express are very nice sets and can be added to. We have all seven passenger cars on our Polar Express set. It makes for quite an impressive train.

Jim