Smoke fluid - how much, how often?

[Brutus]

Finally have a layout (sorta) in the basement where I can turn the smoke on.  But, how much and how often do you fill'er up?  I was using protosmoke in a MTH steamer and also in a lionel car with smoke effect.  After a while, the "flavored" scent changed to just a train smoke type scent - is this when you would refill?  Should I let it cool off before refilling, or just pause, refill, and run?  On the MTH, it was the first run for this loco and I added a lot of fluid as per the instructions, I think 15 or 20 drops...

[Roger Bielen]

My method is when the smoke output thins down to less than I want I'll add from 5 to 8 drops.  My engines are all Lionel and K-line, so I don't know on how much an MTH uses.  You don't want it to run dry, eventhough some newer units have thermostatic shutoffs.  I usually add 3 or 4 drops when I shut an engine down.

[Sturgeon-Phish]

I only have old AF post war steamers, but I add fluid when the smoke thins out, or before running if they've been sitting unpowered for more than a week.  I usually add 8 to 10 drops for thinning smoke and 3 to 4 for running after sitting.

Jim

[dbaker48]

I too add smoke if I see a decline in the volume.  Also, if I can't see an appreciable difference when I activate the Labored Chuff, I will add smoke fluid.  Remember to be conscious of what you have to smoke volume set to.

Then again it depends on who is home.  When I'm there alone, watch out !!! I smoke the place up!!!!! 

[PostwarMan07]

does the amount of fluid you put in affect the volume of smoke as well as the time it takes to burn?  I put 2-3 drops in my 2025 postwar steamer and only get a very slight amount of smoke for about 15 minutes.  I was told not to overfill, but didnt know what that meant for PW steamers...  Other than the american flyers, its seems everyone is talking about modern engines.

[Jumijo]

does the amount of fluid you put in affect the volume of smoke as well as the time it takes to burn?  I put 2-3 drops in my 2025 postwar steamer and only get a very slight amount of smoke for about 15 minutes.  I was told not to overfill, but didnt know what that meant for PW steamers...  Other than the american flyers, its seems everyone is talking about modern engines.

I had the same problem with my 2025. Try only putting in only one drop at a time. I've found that less makes more with pill-type post war steamers and smoke fluid. Also, if the smoke element was ever replaced, it may have been the wrong one. You need one designed for the 675, not the 671/681/. The 671 version has too many nichrome windings to heat up the fluid. It was intended for the worm drive locomotives. Not too many people know there is a difference in these heating elements.

Jim 

[ChiefEagles]

In Post War, 3 to 4 drops is the best rule.  Can go more but it takes higher voltage [pulling more cars will add weight and result in higher voltage to move tain at a good speed] or longer running to get it smoking good.  You will find that adding more cars, to the point that the engine can still pull them OK, will result in better smoke out put.  That is due the the higher voltage needed to run the train.  The smoke unit runs off of direct track power.

[csxt30]

In Post War, 3 to 4 drops is the best rule.  Can go more but it takes higher voltage [pulling more cars will add weight and result in higher voltage to move tain at a good speed] or longer running to get it smoking good.  You will find that adding more cars, to the point that the engine can still pull them OK, will result in better smoke out put.  That is due the the higher voltage needed to run the train.  The smoke unit runs off of direct track power.

Chief : that's exactly what a friend of mine does & he uses Mega Steam, just as I do !!  I find there really isn't anything better that I have found !!

Thanks, John 

[Anonymous]

Brutus,

          For MTH, use 10-15 drops. Refill as soon as the smoke begins to thin out.  Don't let MTH units get anywhere close to dry, the wicking will burn quickly once it is dry.

[RockIsland52]

Wish I had found and joined this forum earlier.

I pulled my 1950's Lionel trains, last run in 1972, out of storage and began the initial task of inspection, cleaning, and lubricating for use at Christmas.  I started with the 2046 NY Central 4-6-4 Hudson and found it was in remarkably good shape.  But the smoke element was not functioning.  Found bad wire, quickly replaced, and solved the problem. 

I agree that less (2 drops smoke fluid) is more, and the increased load (cars or weight) requiring increased voltage for a given speed produces more smoke.  I inspected the heating element which was surprisingly free of burned or unused pellet residue.  When using the drops, I allowed the heating element to heat up about 30 seconds before adding the smoke drops.

Question 1:  Since I was using pellets with that wooden tool decades ago but have switched to the smoke drops, should I expect residue buildup on the heating element that should be cleaned up priodically?  And other than cranking the voltage to burn off the residue, is there a recommendation for cleaning the element?  Is it best to wait until the liquid is burned off before retiring the engine for the evening or for storage?

Question 2:  I found an undated Lionel sticker that recommended using Lionel lubricating oil to remove old smoke residue from the exterior finish on the painted cast engines to preserve the black finish.  That may have been good for a 1950's Lionel lubrication product, but I hesitate to do that with a 2007 lubricant which may remove the residue but trash the painted finish.  Any recommendations?

 

         

 

[laz 57]

In Post War, 3 to 4 drops is the best rule.  Can go more but it takes higher voltage [pulling more cars will add weight and result in higher voltage to move tain at a good speed] or longer running to get it smoking good.  You will find that adding more cars, to the point that the engine can still pull them OK, will result in better smoke out put.  That is due the the higher voltage needed to run the train.  The smoke unit runs off of direct track power.

Chief : that's exactly what a friend of mine does & he uses Mega Steam, just as I do !!  I find there really isn't anything better that I have found !!

Thanks, John 

BRUTUS, just remember to blow down the stack if the smoke doesn't start.  I use a straw do do this, there might be a little bubble that forms, so you got to clear it out.

laz57

[Buckeye Riveter]

I have now repaired or replaced several smoke units in both steam and diesel. 

Below is the smoke unit found inside a K-Line Mikado.

Below is the smoke unit in the Lionel Polar Express

And I have had some great results with my repairs and replacements:

Based on my observations, I am going to recommend that the maximum amount of fluid you put into an engine should be 1/2 teaspoon based upon the average size of all the smoke unit reservoirs I have now repaired/replaced. 

The Chief and I have discussed that it would be a benefit to have a larger reservoir where you can see the fluid level.  (Somewhat like the window washer fluid reservoir on a car.)

Also, if your engine does not have a fan smoke unit, turn the smoke off when it is sitting still.  It will save the smoke coil and the wadding. 

[sir james I]

It also seems to be a good idea to turn the track power off if it is fan driven. the fan will blow the fluid back up the stack and away from the wicking. And all over the engine.

[cnw1995]

So does the smoke unit defaults to 'On'? I wondered if I would damage it if I didn't use it - but on my K-line 2-6-2 I don't see an 'off' switch. Guess I'll have to look more carefully. I'm impressed at how longlasting the fluid seems to make smoke - even very wispy a year after I last wet it.

[LocoPops]

I didn't know you could put smoke fluid in a engine that was made for pellets!  I've got a 2018 and a 2026.  Are you fellows are certain about that?

I also have a couple of 4-4-2's, the Wabash and the Pennsy Flyer, which use fluid.  The Wabash just quit smoking.  Don't know why.  The Wabash still smokes great.

LocoPops

[sir james I]

Locopops- yes you can use fluid in older pellet type engines. A smoke chamber in good condition should hold 2-4 drops, however it has been reported on here in the past by some that 2 drops is all that should be used. so start with two drops and go from there.

[LocoPops]

sir james I,

Thanks. Will do.

LocoPops 

[Jumijo]

Wish I had found and joined this forum earlier.

I pulled my 1950's Lionel trains, last run in 1972, out of storage and began the initial task of inspection, cleaning, and lubricating for use at Christmas.  I started with the 2046 NY Central 4-6-4 Hudson and found it was in remarkably good shape.  But the smoke element was not functioning.  Found bad wire, quickly replaced, and solved the problem. 

I agree that less (2 drops smoke fluid) is more, and the increased load (cars or weight) requiring increased voltage for a given speed produces more smoke.  I inspected the heating element which was surprisingly free of burned or unused pellet residue.  When using the drops, I allowed the heating element to heat up about 30 seconds before adding the smoke drops.

Question 1:  Since I was using pellets with that wooden tool decades ago but have switched to the smoke drops, should I expect residue buildup on the heating element that should be cleaned up priodically?  And other than cranking the voltage to burn off the residue, is there a recommendation for cleaning the element?  Is it best to wait until the liquid is burned off before retiring the engine for the evening or for storage?

Question 2:  I found an undated Lionel sticker that recommended using Lionel lubricating oil to remove old smoke residue from the exterior finish on the painted cast engines to preserve the black finish.  That may have been good for a 1950's Lionel lubrication product, but I hesitate to do that with a 2007 lubricant which may remove the residue but trash the painted finish.  Any recommendations?

Question 1: As long as your old smoke element isn't jammed with the residue of several pills, it will burn off in the normal course of events. No need to wait for the liquid to burn off before stopping the trains for the evening.

Question 2: Petroleum jelly (Vaseline) will remove the smoke pellet residue from old Lionel steamer shells safely. It can be applied with a cotton swab and then wiped clean with a damp rag or swab. I've used this method with great results.

And remember, it's always easier to add more fluid than it is to remove too much.

Jim

[ADCX Rob]

Wish I had found and joined this forum earlier.

I pulled my 1950's Lionel trains, last run in 1972...

Welcome to the forum!

Now you won't have much time to work on your trains until you catch up with all the good information in here!

Rob 

[ChiefEagles]

I think you will see the folks in the know above say 3 to 4 and you can feel from there.  Some of my Post Wars take even more and smoke up a storm.

[Brutus]

Wow - thanks for all the info guys!  Lots of great data here!

[Jumijo]

So does the smoke unit defaults to 'On'? I wondered if I would damage it if I didn't use it - but on my K-line 2-6-2 I don't see an 'off' switch. Guess I'll have to look more carefully. I'm impressed at how longlasting the fluid seems to make smoke - even very wispy a year after I last wet it.

Mine doesn't have an on/off switch either, Doug. Someone once told me that those K-Line smoke units are Suithe type. But if that's so, mine doesn't have the typical stem in the middle like my Williams has. My instructions do say to either use K-Line or LGB fluid in my 2-6-2. I use Williams smoke fluid for mine with great results. Regardless, the smoke flows out of the stack as opposed to being puffed or fan-driven.

Jim