Another Lawsuit -- We need a commemorative Litigation Train

[dbaker48]

Don't forget the MINT cars!  And maybe a hobo car, modified with characters carrying briefcases.

[Bob Keller]

With a little Bobbing Bard on the rear platform. I'm liking this.

But we shall all rejoice on VLA Day (Victory Over Legal Actions Day).

[SunsetLtd]

And this set needs a William Shakesphere caboose.....looks like he had little respect for lawyers!

[lionelsoni]

The original Doyle book seems to be included in the complaint, in paragraph 32:

http://www.ambrosebauer.com/krause.complaint1.pdf

After reading the entire complaint, it seems to me that Ambrose has a pretty good case.

 

[Brutus]

Legal Lines!  Very good - maybe have a bobbing Weasel Head car?

I don't really know the ins and outs of this stuff the way a lot of you guys do, but I read a TCA magazine or newsletter recently that included an article about auction house (unnamed I think) that sold some items that the author thought were misrepresented....  Maybe this is part of that???

[ADCX Rob]

Here is my take on David Doyle's book, from three years ago:

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/323210/ShowPost.aspx

 

Different book/subject, & an earlier edition to the 2006 "Standard Catalog" ... the suit subject is a book on sets...

Rob 

[railfan23]

I just got Doyles American Flyer book and is a great book ( I know so little about Flyer trains, so I had to get it). I guess to make sure it can't be compared to Ambroses other books, the prewar and wide gauge section is in the back of the book with post war in the front.

[nblum]

My best guess, admittedly as a non-legal expert, is that the lawsuit against TCA will be dismissed summarily as groundless, and is purely intimidation or a legally permitted attempt at coercion.  The lawsuit against Doyle is not about money, because Ambrose is not remotely likely to prove any loss of income since his books are out of print, and have been for over a decade I believe.  Once again, some lawsuits are more about doing harm to the defendant than about achieving financial compensation.  MTH has caused Lionel much more financial harm than they could ever prove they suffered due to a few diecast locomotives in question.  These lawsuits aren't mostly about justice or money, they're just another form of bare knuckle capitalism about things such as power, position and ego.

[brianel027]

I'd be willing to bet that the non-command, non-prototype scale "Polar Express" set has already attained more sales than any and all of the above combined commemorative legal battle box cars could ever sell. And if, by chance "Polar Express" hasn't already attained the winning sales status, add in the 3-rail "Thomas" sets and the traditional "NYC/PRR Flyer" sets and that would be a number that couldn't be touched by any set of lawsuit cars.

And any set of lawsuit cars also focus on an aspect of this hobby that has been very negative and divisive to say the least. A traditionally sized modern looking loco from Lionel that looks good with smaller cars and runs on 027 curves would do far more good for the hobby.

[rtraincollector]

the lawsuit against David Doyle has but I believe the new one is against TCA because they let or had david do a book signing at one of there shows.

Personally I bought from ambrisso or what ever it is once on ebay and now can't stop getting updates from him.

Also I think that train set would sell like hot cakes if you had a boxcar with

Lionel VS K-line

MTH VS Lionel

Ambrisso VS David Doyle

Ambrisso VS TCA

With dates and results and guess you would have to have MTH VS Lionel 2 or is it 3 times now on it with the dates

[brianel027]

I'm so glad that I am utterly content and joyously happy with my traditionally run (well, almost since I use DC current to run my trains), traditionally sized simple 027 trains.

Outside of this mentioned lawsuit which pertains to copyrighted published materials, most of the other lawsuits have concerned high end train design/tooling and train operating technologies. High end concerns me nil as I can't afford it nor could even justify it in my mind if I could afford it. And though I know many are happy with the operating digital systems and sounds, there seem to be just as many who are frustrated with it not working, not being able to get parts and having to wait months for repairs that are not correctly done. Such difficulties don't concern me in the least: I've never had to send anything out and can always find parts. And most stuff works with no trouble. I have low end Lionel and K-Line locos with 17 years of running on them and they still work. I have MPC locos made more than 35 years ago and they still work just fine. And I have postwar locos that are older than me, and they still work... hard to argue with all that!

Maybe instead of a commemorative Litigation Train, we simply need more non-scale, basic non-command trains that are affordable and actually work as advertised.

Fortunately for the hobby, some companies are listening. Hopefully Bachmann will resist the cries of the few and continue with the winning product formula Williams Trains already had but with better marketing. I'm encouraged by the new releases from Atlas under the Industrial Rail banner: I like the newly tooled reefer just announced. And I'm anxiously awaiting some news on the announced RMT S-4 "BANG."

The K-Line catalogs under the Lionel banner are actually more appealing than the last couple years of actual K-Line MDK catalogs. And for all their focus on technology and high end, Lionel produces and sells ten's of thousands of traditionally sized, non-command trains and train sets. And they make more profit because they don't have the related new tooling development costs. Meanwhile a run of 2,000 is considered a very large production run for a high end scale locomotive. Hmmmmm... 10,000 versus 2,000.

If you ask me, the jury has returned with a solid verdict and they've announced that affordable low end, 027 non-command trains are the winner. Everything else can go on Judge Judy - and I doubt even she could bring any logic into all these ridiculous lawsuits.

[Bob Keller]

I'm thinking a train branded as LEGAL LINES with cars that eject subpoenas, tank cars carrying ink for court reporter machines, and a sound system that plays "Here comes the Judge" from the old Rowan and Martin show.

This has some potential.

BTW hasn't this lawsuit been on for a year already, or does it just seem like a year?

[lionelsoni]

Here is my take on David Doyle's book, from three years ago:

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/323210/ShowPost.aspx

 

[dbaker48]

Buckeye -

Just to make it convient, I copied the below paragraphs from OGR, more detail available there. Bottom line, issue regarding David Doyles books.  There is question regarding the material he published.   Other threads were being addressed earlier this spring on that lawsuit.  I believe this is a lawsuit, to prevent Doyle at York, but what do I know?  I'm trying to find some gargrave track in the LA area without much luck.

 

"September 28, 2007-As some of you know based on a press release issued by AmbroseBauer Trains (model train auctioneers) last week, model train author Paul Ambrose has sued the national Train Collector's Association (TCA) and also its Eastern Division, the entity that hosts the yearly York meets in April and October. Although there was a lot of discussion about the lawsuit, little was said about the basis and details of it.

On September 17, 2007, Ambrose filed a summons and complaint (the document that starts a lawsuit)in the Federal District Court for the Western District of Penslyvainia. The 46 page complaint accuses the TCA and its Eastern Divison of copyright infringment by promoting model train author David Doyle as an authority and expert on model trains and profiting from it with regard to the sales of the book, "Standard Catalog of Lionel Train Sets 1945-1969", by allowing him to do book signings etc. Specifically, the papers claim the value of the promotion given to Doyle by the TCA and its Eastern Division "was substantially greater than $20,000."

Moreover, it alleges that the TCA and its Eastern Division materially contributed to the infringement in the same book by allowing the use of the TCA name on it. That book was released earlier this year. The complaint seeks $450,000 in monetary damages, as well an a preliminary injunction to prevent the TCA and its Eastern Division from continuing to sell and promote the book.

The lawsuit papers state "Doyle is a fraud as an author." Conversely Doyle's attorney Drew Bauer (the Bauer in AmbroseBauerTrains), proclaims that Ambrose has been the "preminent author of books" concerning Lionel since 1990 and "has one of the finest Lionel post-war collections in the world..." Ultimately, the lawsuit claims that Ambrose's reputation as an author and expert on Lionel trains will be ruined and the business of ABT will suffer as a consequence if the infringement is allowed to continue."

[Buckeye Riveter]

Who or what is an Ambrose?

[Bob Keller]

Hey, I don't have a dog in the fight and I'm not sure that this has come up here before.

Keep it clean, don't hit below the belt, etc etc etc.

[dbaker48]

With yet another Lawsuit, (AmbroseBauer Trains vs TCA), who is going to come out with a Litigation Train?  Is the term Litigation train copyrightable?

 

Copied from another forum:

On September 17, 2007, Ambrose filed a summons and complaint (the document that starts a lawsuit)in the Federal District Court for the Western District of Penslyvainia. The 46 page complaint accuses the TCA and its Eastern Divison of copyright infringment by promoting model train author David Doyle as an authority and expert on model trains and profiting from it with regard to the sales of the book, "Standard Catalog of Lionel Train Sets 1945-1969", by allowing him to do book signings etc. Specifically, the papers claim the value of the promotion given to Doyle by the TCA and its Eastern Division "was substantially greater than $20,000."

Bob Keller -  

If you desire, please feel free to delete this thread! seriously !  (Iam reporting abuse on my own thread).