Hint: it's 2 7/8 gauge. (Because 2 7/8 gauge is so rare, I assume standard gauge collectors would be the most likely segment of our community to be looking for one.)
Same me, different spelling!
That's a pretty good choice, especially if it's pencil signed by Cowen himself.
Rarer though, I think, would be the batteries themselves that Lionel sold in the catalogs. Both the dry and wet cell types, and especially the component parts of the wet cells, usually show up in guides with notations like "No Known Examples" or "No Market Data Available For Estimating Value". 2 7/8 Gauge is so rare most of us will never even see examples outside of a museum.
It would be interesting if someone could produce an authentic Eastern or Everbest dry battery with the identical dust and patina to an original gondola and track found in a disused storeroom of a turn of the twentieth century store. Probably not quite as rare but a set of glass jars, wood box, metal plates, hook-up wire and an unopened bag of "magic sand" bearing Lionel Manufacturing Company info would blow collectors minds.
But there is one item more valuable, more rare and more grail like than even the Brute to Standard Gauge collectors because no one has found an authentic original yet. Any guesses?
I suppose the rarest item would be a 1900-1902 "Electric Express" wood gondola powered by a battery, the first thing Lionel made. I doubt very many were ever made. I don't know if that would translate into a huge sale price if one ever came up for sale / auction.
https://sosuke.com/the-history-of-lionel-model-trains/
Discarding rare one-off prototypes and samples, one of the most valuble regular prodution items would be the Father & Son / Over-Under set from 1960. Complete with original boxes it would easily fetch 10K plus at auction.
A very cogent and insightful analysis Becky!
(I might have added slot cars pushing model railroading out of the collective conciousness but they've kind of had their day and lost it too.)
The funny thing is though, when I'm at a train club open house, holiday display, or train show I see a lot of young families in attendance with the kids all wide-eyed and Mom and Dad grinning wide enough to eat bananas sideways! Which might bode well for the future.
It's funny how quickly society changes it's views on technology isn't it? Between Trevithick, Stevens and all the others that created the practical steam locomotive and 1869 when America "reached the moon" with the driving of the spikes at Promontory, railroads were THE peak of high technology and growth and enginemen were heroes.
By the dawn of the 20th century, automobiles, airplanes, zeppelins and other high tech devices would come along and grow and improve at about the same rate as railroads had in the first half of the 19th century. But probably most important was the advent of home electrification. That advancement made electric model railroading possible and of course electric trains became the high tech toy dujour.
So when did it happen? When did model railroading become a "geek" thing practiced mostly by social outcasts? I think evidence points to the late 1950's. Cars were cool, music was cool, football was cool. Space exploration was the highest of high technology and if you weren't interested in cars, music, sports and girls you were an outcast.
Smart, creative people are often outcasts and model railroading is a perfect outlet for these talents. The high end Legacy trains in the Lionel catalog are smarter than the computers they used to land on the moon 54 years ago but that fact hasn't brought model railroading back to the universe of "cool" in most minds.
They want tok tok, games and drones.
zugmann Prob more computer geeks with impressive O scale layouts than anyone else.
Prob more computer geeks with impressive O scale layouts than anyone else.
Yeah, especially if they're involved in IT equipment sales! Those guys make some GOOD money!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannI don't think so. Pop culture has always shown model RRing in not the best light, or its participants as social outcasts. That's why its reputation (in pop culture) can be seen as infamous rather than famous.
OK Zug, in that respect I can agree with you, model railroading does have in pop culture the aspect of a society of social misfits "living in their mothers basements" which unfortunately many seem hell-bent on living up to! Not many, but some.
Thankfully O, S, and G Gaugers don't fall into that category!
And the "mom's basement" thing seems to be slowly passing over to the computer geeks!
Flintlock76Sorry gents, but I have to respectfully disagree with both of you. The author's use of infamous in this case is poor English.
I don't think so. Pop culture has always shown model RRing in not the best light, or its participants as social outcasts. That's why its reputation (in pop culture) can be seen as infamous rather than famous.
Unless the article is referring to a never before discovered standard gauge M10000 set, there's no such thing as a "1934 Lionel Standard Gauge Diesel Set". . So add as many grains of salt to your opinion of the article as you see fit .
ADCX Rob zugmann To be fair, it said model train sets have an infamous reputation in pop culture. I don't think that's completely untrue. Yes, it's used properly here.
zugmann To be fair, it said model train sets have an infamous reputation in pop culture. I don't think that's completely untrue.
Yes, it's used properly here.
One last example:
"Yesterday, December Seventh, 1941, a date which will live in infamy..."
zugmannTo be fair, it said model train sets have an infamous reputation in pop culture. I don't think that's completely untrue.
Rob
Flintlock76Let's get the definition straight, "infamous" refers to someone or something famous for all the wrong reasons. A great example:
To be fair, it said model train sets have an infamous reputation in pop culture. I don't think that's completely untrue.
Flintlock76Anyway, the MSN article's a good example of "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." But then I never expect much from MSN in the way of top-quality journalism anyway.
Well I began to look at that MSN article with a jaundiced eye as soon as I spotted the all-too-common misuse of the word "infamous" right at the outset.
Let's get the definition straight, "infamous" refers to someone or something famous for all the wrong reasons. A great example:
Hitler is infamous. On the other hand Churchill is famous. That's how it works.
There's nothing infamous about Lionel.
(Another thing that drives me crazy is the use of the word "decimate" in place of "devastate," but that's another story.)
Anyway, the MSN article's a good example of "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." But then I never expect much from MSN in the way of top-quality journalism anyway.
pennytrains¿????¿????
Flintlock76 I'd be VERY happy indeed with a mint Standard Gauge "Blue Comet" set. Ain't gonna happen. Can't afford one and even if I could I'd have no space to run it, except maybe around the Christmas tree once a year.
I'd be VERY happy indeed with a mint Standard Gauge "Blue Comet" set.
Ain't gonna happen. Can't afford one and even if I could I'd have no space to run it, except maybe around the Christmas tree once a year.
I'd be happy with a traditional remake but unless you want to watch it chase it's tail in a circle you need at least 4 by 5 to run a 400e and 3 blue comet cars. I do 5 by 7 and doubt that anything bigger than a 385/1835 will grace my rails. And it's a long shot that I'll have the money any time soon to chase that dream . My little number 8 and matching 35 and 36 passenger cars and the handful of 500 series freights look great on a layout this size so I'm happy.
ADCX Rob Flintlock76 I'd be VERY happy indeed... Do you think this is the most viewed topic on this forum? MSN News linked to it a few days ago.
Flintlock76 I'd be VERY happy indeed...
Do you think this is the most viewed topic on this forum? MSN News linked to it a few days ago.
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Here's some more on "The Brute" and MTH's standard gauge adaptation:
https://mthtrains.com/news/405
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-4nU1p2DT0
Flintlock76I'd be VERY happy indeed...
1688torpedo To date,the single-most expensive Lionel Train was sold at Auction last year for $250,000.00., It was a Standard Gauge set from 1934 Mint in the box with a 400E Engine & State Passenger Cars.
The Brute:
http://www.tcaetrain.org/articles/chronicles/ALCOX/index.html
http://www.tinplatetimes.com/profiles/Al%20Cox/cox.htm
Bob Nelson
The "Brute" kind of resembles a Bi-Polier. I think there was 2 made the massive one that is huge that just went up for sale and a identical one but smaller I thing it is O-gauge. I think CTT had a article this year on the big one and that they stripped it of paint and did some kind of preservation to the metal. But the smaller one is still in original shape painted green. Don't remember where I saw the info on the smaller one. Mite of been the same article.
Me I would like the smaller Mini-Brute cause of course if I owned it I would run it.
FOUND IT. May 2007 "The Brute stops here"
The smaller one here it states in a picture is a SUPER 381
I also would agree with the brute!
Boyd wrote:What is the "Brute"?
The brute was a really big model that was made for JLC when he had items being made in italy. It was a lot bigger then standerd gauge. This is the only info I know.
alex
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Well, the last I heard, the owner of the "Brute" (Allison Cox) was asking $500,000.00 for her. Don't know if anyone has ponied up the cash though. If anyone ever does, methinks that would be your winner right there. The Standard gauge set that Keith mentioned above is the most expensive Lionel item that I have ever heard that ACTUALLY SOLD, though.
- Clint
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