I'm building a wall O gauge railway...

[Anonymous]

SB...
What will the shelf look like face on?  Looked to be trestle like from the first pic, but wanted to make sure.

Here is a quick rendering to show you what the shlef will look like in 3D. ;)

[Wes Whitmore]

Those look good.   The modular shelf part is nice as you can just make one, attach it, and work your way across the wall.  Are you going to be doubling up on the supports when you butt two shelves together? 

 It looks like one of your hurdles is a ceiling sophet.  I have one as well, but it's only 6' 5" tall as is, so I can't go below like you did.  It's also nice not to have a ceiling height or door limitation.  So where are you getting your track that cheap?  Where do you get a cool switcher like that?

Wes

 

[Anonymous]

The switches are Ross Custom O54-O31.  They are the source of some confusion though, and I won't know exact side-by-side track spacing until I can measure the angle difference from one turnout to the next.  I'm shooting for 3.5" between center rails on the parallel tracks without making any mods to the switches.

The odd part of my room is that closet looking space (TV niche).  Also, the wall makes a sudden jog down one of the longer straights, so I came up with the "block" extension system to keep everything straight.

The shelfs are not really modular.  There is 8 of them, and they will have to be custom lengths to make it across the room.  There are two full length wall mounted poplar boards on each wall.  The MDF corners will then sit on tops of those boards with one angle support on each end.  Then there will be 8 MDF straight shelves that mount on top of the wall mounted boards with more angle supports.  I don't think I'll be able to take them with me if/when we move out of that house.  The good news is that the track & electronics cost the most, and the rest I can duplicate easily in another room.  We'll see though since I have yet to start anything... ;)

To answere your question, No I won't double up angle supports where the shelves butt together.  Since the MDF shelf is secured to the wall mounted poplar board over the entire length with drywall screws, the supports really only hold a compression load.  With this design I can make the spacing between the angle supports even the whole length.

Please keep in mind that the 3D rendering is deciving as I just made it as a quick visual example.  The actual floor plan shows exactly where each angle support & shelf will be...

 

PS: I think my track prices came from http://www.grandcentralltd.com but that was almost a year ago.  They could be different now. 

[Anonymous]

Hmm,

It looks like if I use Ross switches, I could mount two rails on my 7.5" boards and have a section (or two) where I can switch the trains, using a 3.5" center c-to-c layout.  Using a 11-degree wye, I could keep the rest of my rail centered on the board. 

Maybe I should go with Gargraves track as it's directly compatible with the Ross Switches.  Since it's up on a board, doesn't matter what I use as far as aesthestics is concerned.

However, I have to buy so much straight track anyway, it might be better to just convert to Gargraves if I want to do this. 

This way if I had two turnout sections, in theory I could have four trains, two on the turnout, and two on the track and set it up where they would wait if one got to close to another.  Of course, you'd have to go manual to exchange trains I think. 

Ok, opinions on going to Gargraves, seem like flex track past the wye's would make life a lot easier.

 

 

[Anonymous]

O27 track is perfectly compatible with Ross switches with the simply addition of Ross adapter pins.  If your track is up on a shelf, there is no sense spending 10 times as much money for wooden tie tracks for the entire layout...

[Anonymous]

SB,

 Maybe the best answer is that I just buy the Gargraves track for between the wye's where it would be nice to have the flex track to set the spacing and gentle transitions, but for the rest of the layout use the O27 I already have.

 I'm gonna price it out this weekend and see what the difference was, I didn't think it was 10X, if it is, I'm not going gargraves.  I thought it was less than 2X more. 

Seems like adapter pins could be a headache, but if they work well, then I have no problem with it.  With anything else I have ever done, the word "adapter" hasn't always lead to good endings.

 Jason

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the 10x figure was an exageration.  The adaptor pins should work flawlessly, but I can't say for sure as I have yet to use them myself.  The main difference from regular pins is that Gargraves side is square, and the O27 side is round.  The rail height & spaceing of the two types of track is identicle so it should be nice & smooth.  I use lengths of gargraves track for my displays, and on occasion I've had to add small lengths of track with extra O27 (until I could purchase new pieces of gargraves).  This is how I know for sure the two types of track line up very nicely...

[Wes Whitmore]

I'm trying to map something out on a shelf, and need to ask if you guys know the track widths. 

The outside edge to outside edge of two parallel tracks that use a:

1) Lionel 042 (027) switch with a single piece of 042 curve after the switch, bringing it all parallel.  All Lionel 027 track.

2) MTH 072 switch with a single 72" curve after the switch, bringing it all parallel.  All MTH track.

3) MTH 042 switch with a single 42" curve after the switch, bringing it all parallel. All MTH track.

 

Thanks!

Wes

 

 

[lionelsoni]

I don't have any MTH track.  But Lionel O42 is identical in curvature to K-Line O42, that is, it has a radius of 20.25 inches and 30 degrees per section.  So the spacing on centers is 5.426 inches = 5 7/16 inches.  The spacing to the outsides of the ties is of course about 2 inches more; but you'll need more than that to clear the wall.

K-Line O72 has a radius of 35.25 inches and 22.5 degrees per section, which gives 5.366 inches = 5 3/8 inches on centers, if that's any help.

You can figure the radius of any curved track if you know how great an angle in direction is turned by one section.  Measure the chord, that is, the distance directly from the center of one end of the center rail to the center of the other end.  Then

r = chord / (2 * sin(angle/2))

For track with 45-degree sections, r = chord * 1.307

For track with 30-degree sections, r = chord * 1.932

For track with 22.5-degree sections, r = chord * 2.563

Once you know the radius, you can calculate the distance between the parallel tracks as

d = (1 - cos(angle)) * 2 * r

For track with 45-degree sections, d = r * .5858

For track with 30-degree sections, d = r * .2679

For track with 22.5-degree sections, d = r * .1522

 

[tschmidt]

I built a wall layout similar to this looks like. I have 6" shelves on 3 walls and 4 tracks wide on the 4th wall which is built on top of a bookshelf. It crosses 1 doorway where I have a fold down bridge on a piano hinge. It goes through a closet under a stairway and out along the wall at the height of one of the risers. That height is the same as the shelf and bookcase.

I used Gargraves track and Ross switches. There are 5 switches all together. The corners are 054. Everything runs off TMCC and all electronics are in a cabinet on the bookshelf side. The wiring runs under the shelf. If you cut a notch in the brackets that hold the shelf up at the 90 degree corner you can have a good pathe for the wires up along the wall.

I used foam roadbed under the track and it keeps the noise very low. Also, I used a 1" piece of wood stripping (1/4" wide) along the sides of the shelf to make it look fished and it sticks up about 1/2" above the shelf top.

I have not been able to post pics on this forum or I would do so. If you have any questions let me know.

TomS

[Anonymous]

I don't have any MTH track.  But Lionel O42 is identical in curvature to K-Line O42, that is, it has a radius of 20.25 inches and 30 degrees per section.  So the spacing on centers is 5.426 inches = 5 7/16 inches.  The spacing to the outsides of the ties is of course about 2 inches more; but you'll need more than that to clear the wall.

K-Line O72 has a radius of 35.25 inches and 22.5 degrees per section, which gives 5.366 inches = 5 3/8 inches on centers, if that's any help.

You can figure the radius of any curved track if you know how great an angle in direction is turned by one section.  Measure the chord, that is, the distance directly from the center of one end of the center rail to the center of the other end.  Then

r = chord / (2 * sin(angle/2))

For track with 45-degree sections, r = chord * 1.307

For track with 30-degree sections, r = chord * 1.932

For track with 22.5-degree sections, r = chord * 2.563

Once you know the radius, you can calculate the distance between the parallel tracks as

d = (1 - cos(angle)) * 2 * r

For track with 45-degree sections, d = r * .5858

For track with 30-degree sections, d = r * .2679

For track with 22.5-degree sections, d = r * .1522

 

HEY!  I swore up and down that I would NEVER use geometry and math in real life! 

Another lifelong goal shot to pieces! 

[Wes Whitmore]

I can use this, and just add more estimated width for roadbed with the MTH track.  Thanks!

Wes

[Wes Whitmore]

I made a little more progress today.  I cut the tunnel to go into the other room, and am getting the 054 curve close to where I want it.  I tried a manual pass with my biggest train, and it passes with close to .5" clearance.  I might want to get a hold of a 42" minimum car to make sure it will pass as that it my minimum curve elsewhere in the layout.  I'm missing a ton of mounts, and this is just a rough-up.  It answered a lot of questions for me though.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804199865856/0

Thanks, 

Wes

 

[Wes Whitmore]

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804207192109/0

I made a little corner platform to hold the left hand 042 turnout.  The two tracks will continue to the left for probably around 14 feet, and then another shelf with a turnout to one track again. I needed a place to store extra trains without physically taking them down, and this seemed logical.  This has been a slow process for many reasons, but now I have a complete vision, so it should be smooth sailing from here.  Not fast, but smooth...

I made 6 mounts to continue the track to the left.  My next step is mounting them.

Wes

[underworld]

Good progress!

underworld

[Wes Whitmore]

I have installed my first switch, and 6 double track mounts.  This is the first time I have used a Lionel switch.  I see what you guys are saying.  You have to crank the track voltage up pretty high to get the switch to snap from one track to the other, but at the same time, the train is moving way too fast!  I can see some sort of contrant track voltage control system coming my way in the future...

I only need to make about 14 nore mounts and a shelf for the other 042 switch, and then I can work on soldering on the hotpoints around the track.

I use a Lionel trolley as my test vehicle because it is light enough to make the turns around my unsupported track  corners.  I'm still working on those.  Since this trolley doesn't have a speed control, it can really build up some speed on the straights.  I'm hoping that more hotpoints fixes some of these problems.  If not, I'll just install speed controllers into everything I own. 

I also have to enter into the 042 switch at a pretty good clip, or the trolley will not make it though.  If I tap it after it stops, it takes off again.  It sounds like a power issue to me.  I'll wait until later and fix it after my power distrubution have been deployed.

Wes

[Anonymous]

Wes-

I am reading your thread on this project nearly a year later. Your pictures have been moved to another website so I cannot see what you were doing. Are you done with the project? Can you share some pictures. I am just trying to do a simple shelf around the top of my boys' room for an o gauge single track to run Thomas the Train. Nothing fancy but I am trying to get ideas for support, shelf material etc.

Any advice?

Thanks-

Anne

[SotaPop]

I noticed that too.  A new link to Wes's photos would be awesome!

[Wes Whitmore]

 

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0AcMXDhq0bNmL4w&emid=sharshar&linkid=link5

Here is a link to a bunch of pictures during that project.  I never completed it, but need to get back in and finish.  I had a bunch of questions that I needed to answer, then moved on to other things.  I am more than halfway around the room now, and just need to finish up above the current layout, which is moving into the next room.  When that gets moved, it should go pretty fast.

Wes

[J. Daddy]

Try this contruction: Home Depot heavy duty shelf brackets for closet kits....

 

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This way you can adjust the height, or add a second hidden level! 

[Wes Whitmore]

Those are awesome for a lower layout, but I don't know about around the border of a room...I guess you could cut the verticals to be pretty short and it would work well.

Wes

[SotaPop]

 

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0AcMXDhq0bNmL4w&emid=sharshar&linkid=link5

Here is a link to a bunch of pictures during that project.  I never completed it, but need to get back in and finish.  I had a bunch of questions that I needed to answer, then moved on to other things.  I am more than halfway around the room now, and just need to finish up above the current layout, which is moving into the next room.  When that gets moved, it should go pretty fast.

Wes

Wes - these photos are excellent.  How's the engine noise running across the brackets?

How about derailments ... hopefully none, but any close calls?

[Wes Whitmore]

It's not super quiet.  I think that soffet that the track is connected to simply aplifies the track vibration, since its just a hollow box. 

No derailments yet. 

 Wes

[Anonymous]

Wes,
How did you handle the corners in the finished room?  I never did quite understand that!

[Wes Whitmore]

It isn't done yet, but I built a box hanger that attaches to the ceiling, and the track rests on the bottom of the frame.  I just used a couple per corner.