I'm building a wall O gauge railway...

[Wes Whitmore]

Frank,

That is absolutely awesome, and well beyond my skillset.  I've never done modeling, and only planned on doing a little on this kit because I don't know what I am doing.  It's obvious when you compare the two.  I love the 2 track layout and the varying grades.  Keep up the great work!

Wes

[yallaen]

I was really interested in this post, as this is what I'm about to tackle. However, I do not like the openess that this design affords :(. I'm looking at using plywood, about 4-6" wide, and secured to shelving brackets about every foot or so apart. I want to add scenary to the trackage area as it goes around the room. In one corner, I'd like to add a small station or something eye-catching. I'd route the wires underneath the plywood, and cover them up with cable cover or something. I'm considering using foam for insulator, but don't know how that will take to scenery. Thoughts? Perhaps just that woodland scenic roadbed for insulation...

Yallaen,
I posted this earlier in thread.  The result here is very clean and the crown molding actually forms a 'channel' you can run your wires inside.  And since it is closer to the wall you won't see any of your track connections either!

Ever thought of using a 'stepped' crown molding?  You could eliminate the brackets and use the crown to support the horizontal subroadbed.

I saw this done at a restaurant many years ago.  Basicly what they did was take a 1x6 and nail that to the wall parallel to the line.  They then attached 1.4 round cove molding (so the curve is concave, not convex) to the bottom.  Then they took a 1 x 4 and nailed that to the 1x6, top edge even.  Then nailed a dental molding along the bottom of the 1x4.  Then they found a 3.5 inch crown and attached that to the 1x4 so the top was parallel to the top of the 1x6 and 1x4.  The result was 3+ inches of support for the ply subroad bed.

If you want to add scenery to the loop, you will want to go with a minimum of 1 x 6.  This will give you enough depth behind the engine and cars, but I would really recommend 1 x 8.  You could cut costs by using furniture grade plywood and having it cut to the width boards you are using.  Lowes will do this for free, I think you get 2 free cuts per board and $.25 per cut after.  You can get 6 1 x 8 boards out of 1 sheet of ply!

 

YES! That's exactly what I was thinking...getting plywood sheets from Lowes, having them cut the straight pieces to my dimensions! YES!! But, the shelving brackets..I was thinking of just the cheap metal ones from Lowes/Walmart etc..I want to run double track..good width suggestions??

 

[Wes Whitmore]

If you are going to use the metal shelf supports, I would probably do a nice wide ledge for two tracks, unless you want to split them up like Frank did.  Just make them as wide as the support is designed to hold so you have plenty of room.  Here are some links.

Thanks,
Wes

http://www.trainweb.org/wgr/Overhead/overhead.html

http://users.sisna.com/kevinm2/

 

[Anonymous]

 Wanted to do it in my living room LOL   My wife threatened my life ! Plus I keep imaging my 23 pound k-line 2-6-6-6 derailing because my grandkids got ahold of the controller and it flying to the floor .  

[Wes Whitmore]

I attached 3 more brackets tonight.  I'm all out, and need to make another batch.  The whole train fits on there now. 

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804098794287/0

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804098785464/1

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804098794242/2

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804098794213/3

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804098794199/4

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804098820832/5

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804098785265/7

Thanks,
Wes

[Anonymous]

I was really interested in this post, as this is what I'm about to tackle. However, I do not like the openess that this design affords :(. I'm looking at using plywood, about 4-6" wide, and secured to shelving brackets about every foot or so apart. I want to add scenary to the trackage area as it goes around the room. In one corner, I'd like to add a small station or something eye-catching. I'd route the wires underneath the plywood, and cover them up with cable cover or something. I'm considering using foam for insulator, but don't know how that will take to scenery. Thoughts? Perhaps just that woodland scenic roadbed for insulation...

Yallaen,
I posted this earlier in thread.  The result here is very clean and the crown molding actually forms a 'channel' you can run your wires inside.  And since it is closer to the wall you won't see any of your track connections either!

Ever thought of using a 'stepped' crown molding?  You could eliminate the brackets and use the crown to support the horizontal subroadbed.

I saw this done at a restaurant many years ago.  Basicly what they did was take a 1x6 and nail that to the wall parallel to the line.  They then attached 1.4 round cove molding (so the curve is concave, not convex) to the bottom.  Then they took a 1 x 4 and nailed that to the 1x6, top edge even.  Then nailed a dental molding along the bottom of the 1x4.  Then they found a 3.5 inch crown and attached that to the 1x4 so the top was parallel to the top of the 1x6 and 1x4.  The result was 3+ inches of support for the ply subroad bed.

If you want to add scenery to the loop, you will want to go with a minimum of 1 x 6.  This will give you enough depth behind the engine and cars, but I would really recommend 1 x 8.  You could cut costs by using furniture grade plywood and having it cut to the width boards you are using.  Lowes will do this for free, I think you get 2 free cuts per board and $.25 per cut after.  You can get 6 1 x 8 boards out of 1 sheet of ply!

 

YES! That's exactly what I was thinking...getting plywood sheets from Lowes, having them cut the straight pieces to my dimensions! YES!! But, the shelving brackets..I was thinking of just the cheap metal ones from Lowes/Walmart etc..I want to run double track..good width suggestions??

 

If you are running double track I think you will need to go up to 10 - 12 inches, but I'm not 100% sure.  It really depends on the size cars and engines you intend to run.  I think you need at least 6 - 7 inches between the center rails, but again not 100% certain.

[A&Y Ry]

 Hobo

Installing a  3-1/2" plexiglas barrier fence along the edge will stop tumbles to the deck. I have derailled my 2-8-8-2 Mallet and 4-6-6-4 Challenger intentionally and they never scaled the barrier [3 track upper shelf at 9'-6", 2 track lower shelf at 7'-4" above the floor]. Once it derrails at any speed it has no power and dies against the barrier.

4'x8' sheet of plexiglas from Lowe's. Cut to 3-1/2" width by 4' or 8' long[your choice on length but I used 8' since it bends easily around curves]. Scored [cut]  and separated on Lowe's vertical glass cutter--first two cuts free, each additional 25 cents per.

[Anonymous]

 Dewy that's a great idea . That was the big thing holding me back . In fact we have a plexiglas distibuting company here locally and I may even get it cheaper ! And how come when I mentioned it to the wife again with your idea she said "not in my living room " ! I'm wondering how it became only HER living room ? Or when I want to detail small items and watch tv  it's "not on my dining room table " ! I'm glad she lets me sleep in HER bed .... LOL

[Wes Whitmore]

So I have a question.  Does the protosmoke liquid that makes my MTH train smoke stain ceilings?  My smoke stack is only 2 or 3 inches from the ceiling...

Thanks,
Wes

[Wes Whitmore]

Well, my whole family (including my 6mo old son) got the stomach flu the day after Christmas.  I'm still not feeling grate, and my son Jack leaves us a great present in his diaper with an intersting color.  Anyhow, I made some more mounts, and started to build the tunnels through the sump pump closet.  I think I'm going to build a shelf on the long wall so I can actually do some modeling in the future.  Before that though, I need to build the tunnel to protect the trains from falling into the sump pump, and the corner out in the room to hold the buckeye billboard.

I was thinking that I would like to go back and build some bridges to tie in some of those mounts, but I will have to ask for some pointers from the people who know.

 

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804125835032/0

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804125827698/1

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804125834975/2

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804125834902/3

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804125834905/4

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804125827558/5

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/photo/294928804125834848/6

 

Thanks,
Wes

[Anonymous]

You might try something like this for spanning window gaps.  Made from inexpensive curtain track, scraps of plywood and extruded aluminum shapes from Home Depot.Derailments are easily accessable too.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5cf39b3127cce950826cce6d700000016108AbNWjls3bub

Bruce Webster

[Wes Whitmore]

That looks great!  Do you have any more pictures of that layout?  I would love to see what was done in the corners, and maybe some more details of the crown moulding shelf?   What are those concrete pillars from?

Thanks

Wes

[spankybird]

Here is a site they you guys may wish to look at for wall mounted trains

 

http://www.cliffhangers.cc/index.html

 

[Wes Whitmore]

I've seen that page.  Very nice stuff. 

I'm more interested in the mounts, railing, and support structures of the system.  From the looks of that picture, there are some things that I would like to see a little bit better.

Thanks,

Wes

[Wes Whitmore]

Wess,
Ever thought of using a 'stepped' crown molding?  You could eliminate the brackets and use the crown to support the horizontal subroadbed.

I saw this done at a restaurant many years ago.  Basicly what they did was take a 1x6 and nail that to the wall parallel to the line.  They then attached 1.4 round cove molding (so the curve is concave, not convex) to the bottom.  Then they took a 1 x 4 and nailed that to the 1x6, top edge even.  Then nailed a dental molding along the bottom of the 1x4.  Then they found a 3.5 inch crown and attached that to the 1x4 so the top was parallel to the top of the 1x6 and 1x4.  The result was 3+ inches of support for the ply subroad bed.

It looked awesome!  I know it maybe very expensive, but you could use paint grade boards to reduce the cost.

 

Sorry for not considering this more in the beginning.  I mainly didn't want to do this because I didn't know what I was going to do with the curved corners, and still don't, but I'm not really happy with my first attempt.  Any idea what you would do for corners?

 Thanks,

Wes

[Anonymous]

Wess,
Ever thought of using a 'stepped' crown molding?  You could eliminate the brackets and use the crown to support the horizontal subroadbed.

I saw this done at a restaurant many years ago.  Basicly what they did was take a 1x6 and nail that to the wall parallel to the line.  They then attached 1.4 round cove molding (so the curve is concave, not convex) to the bottom.  Then they took a 1 x 4 and nailed that to the 1x6, top edge even.  Then nailed a dental molding along the bottom of the 1x4.  Then they found a 3.5 inch crown and attached that to the 1x4 so the top was parallel to the top of the 1x6 and 1x4.  The result was 3+ inches of support for the ply subroad bed.

It looked awesome!  I know it maybe very expensive, but you could use paint grade boards to reduce the cost.

 

Sorry for not considering this more in the beginning.  I mainly didn't want to do this because I didn't know what I was going to do with the curved corners, and still don't, but I'm not really happy with my first attempt.  Any idea what you would do for corners?

 Thanks,

Wes

There are a number of things you can do.  You could simply run everything into the corner.  Or you could go to HomeDepot and look at their corner moldings.  If they don't sell something that is big enough for what you want to do, then buy one of the small corners to use as a guide and build your own.

This link shows different Inside and Outside Crown Molding Corners:
http://www.s4sindustries.com/crown.html

These guys sell 'flexible' crown molding:
http://www.ultraflexmoulding.com/

These are the corners similiar to HomeDepot:
http://webpages.charter.net/pronobis/

Hope this helps!
Brent

[Wes Whitmore]

Thanks Brent.  I guess I could just run them into the corners at 45 degrees, and just make the corner top shelf overhand the molding as much as it needs to do to hold the track. 

I'm trying to rework my plans and go back to a shelf based system on the bulk of the line.  I like how my shorter mounts turned out, and I like being able to see under the train, but I want a shelf around the bulk of the line so I can do some modeling.  I would like to keep the track to an 8" width, which doesn't leave me much room, but since my track is so close to the ceilings, I don't want do go much wider than that, or you won't be able to see anything.  If I only had 6' tall doors in there!  My tunnels have to go above the doors, so I'm pretty much stuck.

I have found that I can build a little train holding section on the wall that I just added those mounts to.  I can use a single 42" left track change and run a 6' piece of strait parrallel with the regular line.  When I get the DCS and can run two tracks on the same track, I will be able to easily get the track moved into position before the other train makes the look.  I can put a train back in the yard when I can't keep an eye on their speed.  I think I'll like that.

Thanks,
Wes

[Boyd]

If the track is in front of an opening window its a very good idea to make a lift out or swingup section for that. My bedroom layout has a big "L" section added to a 4x8 sheet. The "L" section was screwed down in front of the one opening window in my room. I thought it would be extremely hard to get out if there was a fire, so I cut that section out. I have yet to build the swingup section but at least theres not that block in front of the window. This is a really intersting thread.

[Wes Whitmore]

Boyd,

I don't have any plans to block any windows or doors (I have been trying to design around them), but you brought up a great idea with the "lift up" track section.  I imagine a piece of shelf on a hinge with all pins removed, and wiring to that section that is always "hot" regardless of position.  You could just fold it up and open the door, or whatever.  Good idea!

I have changed my mind many times because I'm learning as I go.  New ideas come from bad ideas, I guess.

Wes

[Anonymous]

Boyd,

I don't have any plans to block any windows or doors (I have been trying to design around them), but you brought up a great idea with the "lift up" track section.  I imagine a piece of shelf on a hinge with all pins removed, and wiring to that section that is always "hot" regardless of position.  You could just fold it up and open the door, or whatever.  Good idea!

I have changed my mind many times because I'm learning as I go.  New ideas come from bad ideas, I guess.

Wes

Wes,
I just had an interesting thought... You could have a portion of the track be lower and then have inclines to the tunnels (make it look like the trains are climbing mountains, think Ratan Pass in New Mexico, and are approaching a tunnel at the top of the mountain).  That way you can have some of the track be lower than other sections.  It would make for an interesting wall layout too.

Brent

[Wes Whitmore]

I could do that.  It would bring some depth to the layout.  The most realistic and clean way to do that is probably with graduating trusses.  Put the shelf at the lowest level that I want to be at, and then keep using longer and longer trusses to get my height that I want to get to.  I only worry about grade.  I think someone said that 6% grade is really pushing it, and at 77" long wall (the one between the sump pump closet and the corner in my pictures), that leaves about a 4.5" rise, max.  If 3% grade seems more train friendly, then it's going to be just over 2" on that wall.  So I would probably have to extend the grade around the corner and use the long strait to get my rise safely.  I'll measure my lowest part, total length of the two walls, and desired ending height and get back with you!

Before this post, I was thinking about ripping out all of my mounts, putting a shelf at the bottom of that sophet with the short mounts, and find some trusses to raise the track up to the level of my first tunnel.  It would be in the back of the shelf, so I would have the whole front of the shelf to model on, and the track would look really good on the trusses.  The only problem is finding that many trusses.  I was about to ask for help on how to build them, or a place I can get them.  Since that track is close to 15' long, that's going to be a lot of trusses every 9". 

 I like where all of this is going though. 

Thanks,
Wes

[Anonymous]

Are you looking for the O-27 graduated trestle set?  If so I have one I could send you if you cover shipping.  I have no need for it and it is taking up space in the storage bins that I will need to hide the 0-8-0 switcher I promised not to buy that somehow ended up on my credit card!

I may also have the O-27 elevated trestle set, but that will take some finding because I didn't see it when I reorganized the bins to store the Christmas gifts... I think I need to make a trip to Target and get some more bins...

BTW Wes I may be doing something similiar in my new house! The wife and I were talking about the new train room and I said that I wanted a really long mainline and I was thinking about running the mainline around the main room in the basement on a shelf (this has now grown into a two track mainline).  She asked where I got that idea, and I told her about this thread on here... she wanted to know how to access the forums and I told her you had to have a secret decoder ring and fill out a 30 page application...   She didn't seem too concerned about the shelf system, the only restrictions were:  1. No Smoke 2. No sounds   and 3. It has to be easily dismantled so when we move in 5 - 10 years it won't hamper selling the house.

I told her all I'll have to do is remove the track and patch the tunnel portals in the walls.

[Wes Whitmore]

It's great that she is willing to have it in her basement!  And even better for you...You could always leave it there to help the resale value.  They make good smelling smoke, you might want to try that on her.

I am looking for a tressel set.  Is it the Lionel one?  If so, I have read in my catalog that it raises 4.5".  I think I would rather use the constant height elevated one, if my new plans work out, but you never know until you start building.   Don't go digging for it.  Thanks for the offer, it's very nice!  I'll see if it's going to work out before I claim it.  I wouldn't want to waste it.  I think I might have to make it as it is probably going to have to be bigger than 4.5" too.  I need to go down and measure just how high.

So on my way home, I stopped at lowes and checked out all of the shelf mounts that they have.  There is a lot more available out there than I thought.  I found 4 different mounts that I liked, but left them to come home and think more.  I went to our local ACE, and they might just have the perfect mount for me.  I tried to find one on the internet, but couldn't find one.  I'll just go get one and take a picture.  It's an extruded piece of aluminum that you can paint any color.  It's a triangle that have a notch in it that holds a shelf board.  It will hold a ton of weight, and it's almost invisable.  I think it's exactly what I am looking for.

Stay tuned,

Wes

 

[Wes Whitmore]

Here is the mount.  Its 32" long, and holds over 125 lbs if mounted in studs.  It's all metal, and I was planning on painting it the same color as my walls so it blends in as much as possible.  It's made to hold the standard 5/8" shelf, so I will have to dado down my 3/4" birch ply to fit.  It might just work out well.

 

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/album/576460762377932354/photo/294928804132567800/25

 http://new.photos.yahoo.com/weswhitmore/album/576460762377932354/photo/294928804132593056/26

 

I'm just holding it there with my other hand.  I want to paint it first.  At $16 each, they are a little pricey, but I like them more than anything else.  I will probably need 4 of them for my long run down my next wall.  Just for reference, it's 7.25" from the wall to the outside of that tunnel.  I'm not sure how much wider I should go than 8" as any wider will obstruct my view.

Thanks,
Wes

 

[Anonymous]

Looks cool.  Can you run the wires inside it?

Keep us posted on how it works out!

[Wes Whitmore]

It's hollow, but I would have to run pieces end to end, from wall to wall.  That might get expensive on my 18' wall!  If I can get it past the wife, I would prefer to do that.  I'm going to see if they make longer pieces before I go buy out the store though.

Does anyone know if interior latex housepaint will stick to powdercoated steel?  What kind of prep do I need to do to get it to stick?

Wes

[Wes Whitmore]

So i was reading another post here, and it raised a question for me.  Where can I find some good schematics on creating automatic train operations based off of train location?    I found this:

 http://www.thortrains.net/liolayb.gif

I want something close to this.  I would like to run two trains on one track in opposite directions (at each other).  I would like to hold a train in a roundout loop until the oncoming train passes by.  That way I would have two trains going around the room at the same time.  I could put one of these loops on each end of the oval so I have continuous train action.   The 4 switches would need to be automatially thrown as well.    It's starting to trickle through the layers of my head as I think about it.  This stuff is great. 

Thanks,
Wes

[lionelsoni]

Here's a way to run two trains alternately around a loop, but without a siding, since they both go in the same direction:

Create a "stop" block and an "approach" block just before the stop block, each long enough to hold a train.  Let the center rail be continuous all around the room and through both the stop and approach blocks.  However, isolate one outside rail in the approach block and both outside rails in the stop block.  Connect all the isolated rails together.

Here's how it works:  A train sits in the stop block, not moving because the outside rails are not connected to anything.  The other train travels around the room and then enters the approach block.  Its wheels bridge the approach-block outside rails, grounding the stop-block outside rails and supplying voltage to the stopped train, which moves out of the stop block.  The second train passes from the approach block to the stop block, where it stops, since there is no train following close behind it (yet).

This scheme is best used with plastic couplers (or couplers that you have deliberately insulated with tape through the mated knuckles), so that current does not flow from truck to truck through the couplers as a train enters the stop block.  This current can burn out the knuckle springs.

A further refinement is a red-green signal at the end of the stop block.  Wire the red lamp to the (non-isolated) outside rails, the green lamp to the center rail, and the common between them to the isolated outside rails.

Here's how that works:  When there is a train in the stop block but no train in the approach block, the train's motor is in parallel with the green lamp and in series with the red lamp, so the red lamp lights.  When the other train enters the approach block, it shorts out the red lamp and puts full track voltage on the green lamp, at the same time that the stopped train starts up.  When the second train is fully within the stop block, the light goes back to red just as that train stops.

[Wes Whitmore]

I think it's going to be hard to paint.  It's powdercoated white, and I don't know if I can just get a can of rustoleum and paint over it or not.  I might have to sand it down first.

 So I could use some help on where these switches in the link are getting their power, and what is tripping them?  I think I have the rest figured out (the grounding blocks).  What trips these switches?

Thanks,
Wes

[lionelsoni]

The isolated rails that operate the anti-derailing feature.  When you wire two turnouts together that way, both will throw when a train passes over one.