jayres1973As for the "TMCC and DCS" conversation, ... I don't have a clue about any of it. I've looked a lot of controllers online, but I think it'll be some time before I have any knowledge on compatibility issues. I'm just trying to play it safe for now. For me, keeping it simple at this point is the smartest way to go. I've had enough headaches the past week
Most of us started with a simple engine and transformer and let it expand from there. Yea, take your time. Just watching that Northern go in circles must be a major treat.
In the 1980's, all we really had was Lionel and a 40 page catalog. There was a smattering of Williams thrown in. All people talked about was one or two new engine announcements. Things began to really explode in the mid 90's. Today we have several manufacturers who's catalogs stack up thicker than a big city phone book. It's mind boggling.
challenger3980 Berk765 The transformer might just not be compatible with the engine. My MTH does wierd things when I run it on the Lionel CW-80 transformer. Might be that. Hi Berk, is your locomotive a Proto Sound 2 locomotive? Some PS2 locomotives will blow their Whistles/Horns near continuously when run with a CW-80. The CW-80 uses a "Phase Control" current, that confuses the electronics in some PS2 locomotives, it doesn't hurt them to the best of my knowledge. Also with PS 2 locomotives, you can't access the Station Sounds/Freight Yard sounds and remote couplers with a CW-80. Other than the PS2 issues, I Really Like the CW-80 transformer, when used within it's abilities, it just is not a ZW. Doug
Berk765 The transformer might just not be compatible with the engine. My MTH does wierd things when I run it on the Lionel CW-80 transformer. Might be that.
The transformer might just not be compatible with the engine. My MTH does wierd things when I run it on the Lionel CW-80 transformer. Might be that.
Hi Berk,
is your locomotive a Proto Sound 2 locomotive? Some PS2 locomotives will blow their Whistles/Horns near continuously when run with a CW-80. The CW-80 uses a "Phase Control" current, that confuses the electronics in some PS2 locomotives, it doesn't hurt them to the best of my knowledge. Also with PS 2 locomotives, you can't access the Station Sounds/Freight Yard sounds and remote couplers with a CW-80.
Other than the PS2 issues, I Really Like the CW-80 transformer, when used within it's abilities, it just is not a ZW.
Doug
Yes it's PS2. It acted wierd when I ran it on the loop when it wasn't wired up and when it wasn't permantly down. But I recently ran it with the 80 watter and it ran just fine, after the track was wired and permantly down, except I couldn't access the coil couple or the extra sounds.
Give me steam locomotives or give me DEATH!
Berkshire Junction, bringing fourth the cry of the Iron Horse since 1900.
I have not had any trouble running Ps (1) locomotives with the CW-80, but PS-2 locomotives are very inconsistent in how they run with the CW-80, some run fine (except the inability to activate the extra sounds and remote couplers) I have a PS-2, F-3 that never balks about the CW, and a PS-2, 2-8-0 that almost always randomly blows it's whistle with the CW-80 in control. I've had some that are fine one day, but not the next, no Rhyme or reason that I can figure out. The PS-2 issues and the low wattage rating are the only things that I don't like about the CW-80, oh except that the MSRP is now about$140.00, Thank Goodness for ebay. If Lionel was to give the CW, 130-150 watts of Pure-Sine Wave power, at the current MSRP, I think it would be a real winner, and fill a niche in the market that currently MRC does have one I beleive unit to fit.
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
challenger3980 Hi John, I have no trouble accessing all functions of PS-1 with my CW-80, but none of my PS-1 locomotives have any Station or Freight yard sound effects, that would require the use of a bell button (which PW transformers didn't have). Did any PS-1 locomotives have Station/freight Yard sounds? All of my MTH with Station/Freight yard sounds are PS-2. Doug
Hi John,
I have no trouble accessing all functions of PS-1 with my CW-80, but none of my PS-1 locomotives have any Station or Freight yard sound effects, that would require the use of a bell button (which PW transformers didn't have). Did any PS-1 locomotives have Station/freight Yard sounds? All of my MTH with Station/Freight yard sounds are PS-2.
I stand corrected, Looking at the box of my MTH PS (1) SW-9 Switcher, it does state to have Freight Yard Sounds. I can't put it to the test though, the sound system on that locomotive recently died, but the remote coupler still responds to the whistle signal for uncoupling.
Jeremy did you see this post or was it sent to never, never land?
Patrick
LawsonFarmsRR jayres1973Yep, John. It's awesome when everything works as it should. I need more track, etc. It's just there's no limit, except for your imagination, of what you can do on a layout. I had ideas, but now I'm lost again. I don't know where to start. So, I'm searching every layout I can find online to get ideas and at the same time trying to double & triple check items that aren't compatible. I'm also wanting to keep the freight cars, buildings, etc. all in the same era, so I've been searching through pictures to see "when & what" was used. For some people, this might be pretty easy. For me though, I'm just starting. thanks again, JeremyJeremy, I do like your enthusiasm!! And you are taking it slow, doing lots of research. In my mind that is the best way, and you will enjoy each step that much more. Like Ole Timer said "You've been addicted", like the rest of us, and that is a good thing.Don't worry about making a mistake on the layout. We all do and making changes is part of the fun. Have you heard about the DVD series "Great Layout Adventures"? It's a series of six separate discs each with 4 or 5 layouts shown live. Put out by O Gage Railroading, available at www.ogagerr.com . Some of the layouts are huge but you can still pick up ideas from them. Patrick
jayres1973Yep, John. It's awesome when everything works as it should. I need more track, etc. It's just there's no limit, except for your imagination, of what you can do on a layout. I had ideas, but now I'm lost again. I don't know where to start. So, I'm searching every layout I can find online to get ideas and at the same time trying to double & triple check items that aren't compatible. I'm also wanting to keep the freight cars, buildings, etc. all in the same era, so I've been searching through pictures to see "when & what" was used. For some people, this might be pretty easy. For me though, I'm just starting. thanks again, Jeremy
Jeremy, I do like your enthusiasm!!
And you are taking it slow, doing lots of research. In my mind that is the best way, and you will enjoy each step that much more. Like Ole Timer said "You've been addicted", like the rest of us, and that is a good thing.
Don't worry about making a mistake on the layout. We all do and making changes is part of the fun.
Have you heard about the DVD series "Great Layout Adventures"? It's a series of six separate discs each with 4 or 5 layouts shown live. Put out by O Gage Railroading, available at www.ogagerr.com . Some of the layouts are huge but you can still pick up ideas from them.
RFD-TV --- Rural America's most important network!
Oh guys don't get me wrong ... the MTH transformers under the Z-4000 look like crap to me too . It's not that I don't like MTH engines ... I'd love to buy some but darn it not getting all the functions without a completely different control system burns me . I'm getting more tempted to buy some anyway ... heck you don't get any effects from Williams engines either ... I've now decided before I buy Williams ... I'll buy Proto2 MTH engines . At least if and when I get a system later it'll have it all . Plus there's alot more good buys on ebay for them .... well there was before every one of the new buyers went nutsy on bidding .
Hi oletimer,
I understand you, I don't buy as many MTH products as I used to, but there are still the irresistables. The Bantam Daylight set was one(actually 3) for me. I have gotten 6 six Nephews started in O-Gauge, one of my sisters has 2 boys, One I started with Santa Fe, the other in Union Pacific, then her Husband wanted his "Own" railroad to model, he decided on the Great Northern. My Sister mentioned that each of her "Boys" have a railroad and maybe she needed one too.
My other Sister has a Son and a Daughter, her Husband is originally from New York, so I started their son in NYC. Her Husband, is a little to concerned with keeping everything "Mint Cond" and got mad at her for "playing trains" one day with my Nephew, afraid that something might get damaged. Simple solution there, I got her, her OWN train, so she can Play Trains with my Nephew any time she wants, with her OWN train.
We are all from Portland, OR so the Bantam Daylight set was a perfect fit for my Sisters, as the 4449 is a "Home Town Girl", not to mention the Daylight colors are Spectacular. So for last Christmas and their last Birthdays, I got each of my Sisters a Bantam Daylight set, then added a matching combine, and coach, as the three cars included looked a little on the short side, but the 5 car train looks really nice in my opinion.
Of course, I "HAD" to get a set for myself (I model UP & SP). My Nephew with the NYC stuff was fascinated about a year ago by the Station Announcements in my PS-2 F-3 about a year ago, and kept telling Uncle Doug how much he wanted a "Talking Train" too, so at least his Mom now has one to play with, with him.
The MTH Z-1000 is a good transformer. However, at 100 watts, something like a dual motored F3 pulling five illuminated 15" streamliner cars would tax it, blow it's breaker constantly, and eventually fry the electronics.
is it sounding 'the three clanks of death?
3railguyThe MTH Z-1000 is a good transformer. However, at 100 watts, something like a dual motored F3 pulling five illuminated 15" streamliner cars would tax it, blow it's breaker constantly, and eventually fry the electronics.
Hi Jeremy,
Yeah, there a TON of differences between PS (1) and PS2, PS(1)(to my Knowledge, MTH never refered to PS, as PS1, that is something modelers have dopne to differentiate between PS and PS2) PS (1) is a sound system, and often will control remote couplers(Proto-Coupler in MTH jargon), PS2 has the Command Control (DCS) capability built into it, and also usually(probably always) has sound and proto coupler control. I have never had trouble operating my PS2 locomotives with any Z-500, 750 or 1000, and I have never had/used a Z-4000, so I can't comment on their performance personally.
I have used a CW-80 on all of my PS (1) locomotives, without any trouble controling them, others have commented that they have had issues with CW-80's and PS (1) locomotives, but I (Fortunately) have never had any problems with that combination myself. PS2, locomotives though are very inconsistent in their behavior when operated with a CW-80.
Many of the comments about the "Three Clangs of DOOM" stem from the days before the reset kit was available, and like in my case, the locomotive had to be sent back to MTH for reprogramming(MTH had my locomotive for almost 9 months)
Your KW is a Solid, Reliable and Time Proven transformer, that is plenty for what you are now doing, and should give you many years of reliable service. Your KW will also be very useful in the future, for operating various accessories such as switches(turnouts) and lighting, or other operating accessories. I don't know what fixed voltage posts it has in particular, but you can also use the usually track connected throttles/posts for things like fine tuning switch voltages(some like their switches to have a sharp snap, but not more voltage than neccessary) and also for varying lighting intensity. You should not regret having the KW, in the future in MY opinion.
I agree, with John (3railguy) and the others that feel you got a fair deal on some nice equipment(I have a soon to be 5 year old Nephew that would Drool all over that Santa Fe Northern) I also think that it sounds like the shop near is a Reliable shop to deal with, from what you have said on his attempts to make things right.
Stick with it, you will learn quickly, and have FUN doing it,
Jeremy, the more I think about it, you dove in quite well. Probably better than most of us. If MTH fans were to vote on the top 10 RK steamers of the entire slew of RK PS-1 steamers, your Santa Fe Northern would likely be in there somewhere.
The reason for power obsession and multi transformers is to avoid voltage drop when running multi trains with illuminated cars on an illuminated layout with operating accessories. Additionally, postwar Lionel trains that people often run are amperage hogs compared to the modern trains with can motors and electronics. The lever on the KW has always been the kicks for me because it mocks a real diesel.
Doug -- I buy the heck out of their diecast cars and especially their signals and all accessories . They have the most realistic in my opinion . I also buy alot of k-line diecast and k-line engines . Yes their engines are great looking units and upgadeable sounds and functions can't be beat ! Proto 2 units ... which have far less problems .
Jeremy ... no I don't need 10,000 watts ... LOL . And I'm well over 60 years old .... although I am still a kid at heart ... and if anyone here wants to buy me something train related or donate old unwanted stuff .... PM me and I'll give you my address and pay shipping ... LOL ! . It's just down the road ... believe me you'll need alot of output if you keep building and why run 10 - 20 transformers instead of a couple large ones ? KW's -W's - or Z's ... I've read on here where some have 10 - 15 small ones linked NOT your KW's .... and I'm sure that hoby shop guy will stop resetting it for you for free after awhile ... believe me .
Ole Timerbelieve me you'll need alot of output if you keep building and why run 10 - 20 transformers instead of a couple large ones ? KW's -W's - or Z's ... I've read on here where some have 10 - 15 small ones linked NOT your KW's .... and I'm sure that hoby shop guy will stop resetting it for you for free after awhile ... believe me .
The reason for multi transformers gets back to voltage drop. If you add more load to a second tap on a single ZW or Z-4000, you will see voltage drop on the first tap. That is if the loads are high such as two long trains or multi lighted layout accessories. Unless you are running cruise, one train will slow down the other when starting up, or the layout lighting will dim. As long as the individual transformers are more than adequate for the load put on them, voltage drop is a much lesser concern if a concern at all. With multi transformers, you can throttle voltage to individual operating accessories so they perform at their finest. Another advantage to multi transformers is when something goes wrong with one of them, your layout isn't out of commision as you service the faulty transformer. I agree, KW's are tricky to phase whith others (never tried it) with the goofy voltage taps but they are fine when isolated.
John ... totally agree on using multiple transformers specified on designated hookups like towers - buildings/lights - stattionary powered units of all types . I power up the layout with the pieces lit for folks just to look at it all lit up without any trains running . I highly recommend multi transformers for those situations . I don't have a huge setup needing multiple main units and try not to overwork that expensive rascal and keep turning it on and off for visitor eyeballing of night on the yard . Of course it's all packed and waiting to finish buildings and detailing now anyway . I'm so darn far behind ... and thinking and building more ... LOL .
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