Good evening Leon, I think a bottomless keith's will be a most appropriate drink for me this evening. I'm a bit later than usual signing in as I've just finished watching 3 hours of CBC coverage of the rededication of the Vimy Ridge Memorial in France, a very moving and well done ceremony. Alot to take in,I've known the History a significance of the place well , but seeing the well preserved trenches etc was indeed poiniant.To think 90 years ago today, the Canadian army fighting together in it's entirety for the first time achived what many others had failed to do , for the two years previous.A salute to them as well tonight.
Mike-I see you snuck in right before mee the other night, a fine fine selection of photo url's as always, good to see your continued support as well.
Eric-I have to say enjoying your latest batch of photo's all good ones thank-you As Tom mentioned there are not any streetcars in Ottawa any more 1956 wound out the trolley era there, they did run electric trolley-buses for a few decades after that as well. The light - rail is still on again off again there, they have been running the "O" train for about ten yeasr now on a couple downtown routes, essentuially it's a comuter line presantly diesel powered. There is still talk of electrifing it and expanding service to Hull and Kanata but it's still just at the "talk" stage.
Tom-Ah the Candian Northern, an epic tradgedy or triumph depending on which historin you reead and believe,still as you said alot of the trackage is still there and used every day.The colapse of the CnOR ended the lives of a raft of well establisehed electric interurban and city lines that were purchased by the dynamic duo in hopes of funding there dream of a third transcontinental line accross our country,still the best of all three still serve as major transport and travel hubs accross the continent.
I have to say that the NHL isn't what it used to once be. You know my feelimgs on it, about twenty too many teams for my liking still we have two months of hopefully good hockey to look forward to, I'm not even going to make a prediction as to who may win out in the end.
The rapido cars are truly as good looking in person as the pictures in magazine ads show, at $60 CDN a pop thopugh they are a tad pricey, thought they seem to be snapped up with wreckless abandone in our local hobby shops up here, the lighting is quite impressive a soft warm flouresant tube and it does not flicker like the old style passenger car lighting. the price for the circuts doesn't seem to bad ( however the amount of stock you would need to by would gag a healthy maggot ). I'm so glad the Fergie has your retirement funds so well managed
pete-Oh no , I'll help you "Chandle" but you have the girls and others in the back room working as a well oiled machine so i'll just help out (translated I will not go throught the horrors of initiation again as well )To roughly answer your query, the route boxes were atted by the Ottawa Street Railway to the twelve cars they recieved from the TTC. During the war years the TTC gave ( were told to by the fed government )help out the other street railways cope with te increased traffic caused by the fuel and rubber shortages. Ottawa got twelve TR's, Quebec city got Ten and another ten went out west to bolster Regina and Saskatoon's street railways as well. All the cars were scrapped out by there new owners. Toronto and Montreal being the biggest cities were allowed to purchase new modern steel PCC cars TTC getting 50 Montreal 12 before all non essential metal usage was stopped in favour of the war effort. So the old wooden bodied ( and underframed ) TR's soldiered on for an extra 15 years. TTC retired the last of 1326's sisters in 1949 !
Lars-looking forward to lightening stripe day tomorrow Nice to see the theme days still going strong. I think I may just be able to scare up something from the memory banks to support it. Nice selection from the Lars lending library today as well, I posses the first two books, both decent reads, with lots of the interesting and obscure in them.I think thursaday should be a good day here, I just have that feeling, and it's thanks to your tireless efforts and Tom's and every one elses that we aren't simply limping into aniversary # 2
Doug-Intresting poem, it's amazing how many songs and bits of liturature railroading has spawned and nurtured over the years.
CM3-thanks for the welcome back,I should be a fixture again, it;s actually good to be back really.
Rob
Well here's a little ebcore pulled from page 16 to support Tom's efforts from this morning, not alot of newer info than he posted, but something for the bedtime hour folks to read at the end of the day.
CLASSIC STEAM #39 ONTARIO'S THIRD MAINLINE THE CANADIAN NORTHERN
Well we will tell the tale ( an abriviated version ) of the "third" national dream in Canada.The Stroy of Mackenzie and Mann and the rail empire that never quite made it.
In 1895, another chapter in Canadian railway history began. In that year the famous Canadain partners,William MacKenzie and Donald Mann bought the failing Manitoba railway , The Lake Manitoba Railway & Canal Company.And with this purchase they began assembling a network of unused charters and undervalued lines that would eventually stretch from coast to coast.The key link in this chain of railways would be the connecting link running between Ottawa and Toronto.They didn't seem bothered by the fact that two other mainlines were already destined to run east from Toronto,the 50 year old Grand Trunk and the line proposed by the CPR.
By the time the line was under construction, most of the towns along the line were well established. The GT had taken up the best station grounds close to the downtowns, and left the fledgling Canadian Northern ( CnoR ) the inferior alignments on the outskirts of the towns.The route ventured northeast from Toronto far to the north of Oshawa and Bowmanville and was unable to get a desirable run close to Lake Ontario until it reached Port Hope.from there the next amjor town was Desoronto, where the line followed closly that of the GT at times running parallell.
Between Napanee and Sydenham ( north of Kingston ) the CnoR incorporated the existing Bay of Quinte RR ( BQ ) but from there they laid their own trackage into Ottawa.From Ottawa the route continued along the south shore of the Ottawa river to Hawksbury, where it crossed into Quebec sending spearate branches to Montreal and Quebec City.
The Blind ambition of building this and the third trancontinental mainline the Grand Trunk Pacific, however lead to the CnoR's downfall.The completion of three national mainlines, and three east of Toronto wiht all the extra branches to feed them essentially duplicated each others services.With the world on the verge of a world war, this had the makings of a financial disaster. By wars end two of these lines were bankrupt. The GT Pacific and the CnoR.With the government owned Intercolonial in the maritimes not being much more healthy.
In an effort to save the bleeding red of these essential services ( for movuing goods and people and to avaoid a national financial crash ) Tjhe federal government decided to rationalize the redundant netwok of trakage that spiderwebbed it's way accross Ontario and much of the country.In this way the Federal government assumed control of the GTP, the CnoR & the Intercolinial forming the Canadian National Railways ( much to the dismay of the CPR )
Under the new CNR banner, the lines that at one point were heated rivals were now suddenly redundant.This was espeacially eveident in the extra trackage east of Toronto.The CNR did not need twwo mainlines running side by side serving the same communities etc. So the more profitable line was retained.So in 1936 the least profitable line was abandonned, MacKenzie & Mann's CnoR. The line only ran for two decades, yet track remained in place until the 1940's when the metal was torn up for the war effort. Some trackage of this eastern portion of the CnoR still remains in use today in Oshawa and Coburg, but only as stub ended industrial spurs feeding the old GT mainline.
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Leon, how are things going? Really? No, I think I'll have a ham sandwich. On rye! Coffee. It's a little bit early for breakfast.
Some very interesting articles and stories to read tonight! Not bad for a Monday!
Doug – You could probably make some money assembling those bird houses! Buy three, build and sell four!Bloomin’ Blunders! I like that poem! I have a feeling that Oliver S. Sprout liked steam locomotives better than diesels. Tom – Gas prices, today the price of oil dropped $3/barrel. I bet the price at the gas pump will go up again tomorrow. Thanks for the date of Dave’s birthday! I saw something today about Toronto, that they hope to build more light rail lines!Interesting story about CNoR! It didn’t last for long after its completion though. CM – The sleeper was Amtrak #2924, Pacific Patrol. It was coupled to the train in Minneapolis/St. Paul. The picture in DC was the two F40’s pulling the X2000 down to Florida and back to DC.Lars – It seems like gas is more expensive in your neighborhood than here! Some nice book covers! Books about Canadian Railroads. Considering all book covers you are showing us one thing is clear, there is no way I would be able to read them all (if I had the money to buy them)! But I l;ike to see those covers, I have added some of the titles to my list of books I will try to find.Pete – It’s allright to have W-1s on the brain! I guess what you mean is that you have not had enough of Bathman’s, right? You are right about those smells from steam engines! I did not know that the Warships were based on the German V200! They certainly look kind of similar. What was the reason to paint one of the Warships in german livery? I am afraid that your guess that my picture is showing the cab of an old subway car is a little bit off. It is actually the cab of the interurban below, Pacific Electric (a Blimp).
Rob – As I mentioned to Tom, I saw that Toronto hopes to build more light rail lines! Correct? Hull is home to a couple of Swedish locomotives, one Class E2 steamer and one Class T43 diesel electric. I guess they are still around. Thanks for the Classic Steam story! I guess three transcontinental mainlines were a few (or at least one) too many.
Eric
Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!
<huff> <puff> <stomp> <stomp> <phew> <groan> <grunt> Finally made it in! Thought I'd never get away . . . Ahhhh, a mugga Joe, barkeep, with a "jolt" to begin my day if you please!
Some mighty fine Posts from our trolleyMAN and it's surely good to see both he and Eric at the "anchor" position of the day once again! Observed some slack time during both daylight and darkness, but still, the guys who give a rat's patoot made it in!
Mr. Bar Chandler - you 'n I have an "appointment" in the rat's patoot room! <arrrggghhh>
Well, I said I'd do it - so here goes - THE NEW YORK CENTRAL! First offering . . .
Let's get the NYC going this fine day!
Until the next time!
Lars
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
Grand Central Depot
http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beach/fig9-6.jpg
http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beach/fig9-8.jpg
Grand Central Terminal
http://www.pbase.com/image/55781141.jpg
http://photoswest.org/photos/00013501/00013583.jpg
20th Century Limited 1959
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/n/NYCswitching20thCenturyChiIL0959rp.jpg.94104.jpg
Indianapolis
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/n/NYC5772IndyINrp.jpg.56409.jpg
RDC
http://67.15.20.45/images/r/rr0105.jpg.32232.jpg
P motor
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/n/NYC_226_1201.1966.jpg.89536.jpg
E8
http://67.15.20.45/images/r/rr1-17.jpg.32452.jpg
LaSalle St. from Board of Trade Building 3/5/41
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P02220.jpg
LaSalle St. from Board of Trade Building 6/7/63
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P12897.jpg
4-8-4
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/285966929_07fa849d22_o.jpg
Video clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM8CTFinR3g
Light reading
http://alfredbarten.com/oldmaud6.html
Mike
Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
G'day Gents!
Tuesday and the Theme for the Day is New York Central System!
Have a cuppa Joe, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and perhaps a <light> or <traditional> breakfast! Great way to begin the day.
Not the most active of daytime Monday's, but then again that's pretty much been the "norm." Appreciate any and all who stop in!
Petrol at $2.68 (rounded) up at "Collusion Corner."
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):
CM3 at 8:44 AM yesterday: Yes, work does have a WAY of getting in the WAY!
The names mentioned awhile back - Lynn, Revere, Marblehead, Salem, etc. all bring back some memories from my 5 years living in the Boston metro area. However, when visiting those areas, it was always by car - USCG helo once to Salem, where we used to have an Air Station. My rail experiences were limited to the B&M RDCs to ‘n from Melrose-Boston North Station - took the full trip to Reading with the kids on a Saturday.
You are correct, Sir, in your appraisal of the movie "61*" and the convincing portrayal of Roger Maris. Ahhhhh, Fenway Park - took my boys to a Yankee-Sox doubleheader with a buddy and his two young guys. A good time was had by all - have very little recollection of who won - but that place was always a "treat' for baseball. I preferred the night games, but the traffic to ‘n from Fenway was absolutely frightening! <yikes> Bahstun drivers x 10!
Speaking of the Pirates, Awk had better "ditch" that cap - Cards beat the Bucs today in a most well pitched game. That's 2 in a row for this starting rotation. A shame about "Carp" - but what team gets through an entire season without a few DL candidates, eh
Appreciate the round, quarters ‘n visit!
Lars at 10:00 AM yesterday: The Manager comes through with a fine piece of work capped off with some nifty Canadian RR book covers ‘n video! Really liked that BC Rail cover . . .
I think you're gonna have to get the Bar Chandler into some remedial training - note his comments regarding the FORMER Chandler! Wolfman IS the man - ain't no delegating authority. So, remind him! <grin>
Yes, that Islanders-Devils game must've been quite THE event. Didn't catch it here as the NHL coverage on the tube is awful, except when the Blues play. We see very few of the other teams. Another nail in the coffin for the "garage league," eh
Glad to note your "stance' regarding Cindy!
Appreciate the visit, as always!
Pete at 3:33 PM yesterday: Must tell you straight away that if I come to JCity under the new Amtrak sked, I'll be departing on the 3:30 PM to Kirkwood. Won't be time for Pat's Place. <boo hoo> Anyway, we should be "moving" on the KCity plans . . .
Whaddyamean you HAD to spend 2 extra hours at Pat's Place on Friday nite???? WHO are you trying to convince <grin>
I learned a long time ago NOT to depend on Amtrak's train status messages. They just don't seem to get it even close. Exception is to use their web site and check on the TIME of departure from a given point (station) - that way you'll at least know where they were. But to try and find out the anticipated arrival time - good luck.
No doubt the Amtrak schedule change, brought on by the UP track work, has pretty much "killed" many of the Business Class interest . . .
"Throttlebottom" does conjur up an image or three, eh Perhaps a name to keep in mind for a future "Our" Place character . . .
Looks like you ‘n Manager Lars have an "issue" to settle! <uh oh>
Thanx for a fine inclusive'n informative Post along with the round!
Rob at 11:13 PM ‘n 11:24 PM yesterday: Two visits from the trolleyMAN and some fine contributions at that! Great to have you back with us.
A silent "toast" in memory of those brave lads who gave their lives at Vimy Ridge.
Absolutely "right on" regarding the CNoR - some really innovative thinking and a shame that it went the way it did. One good thing though, it does LIVE in history, eh
Rapido, Kato and all the "upscale" HO stuff out there gets snapped up at first release all of the time. So what does that tell ya?? More expendable bucks out there than many realize. I'm just not about to fork out $50 bucks-plus per passenger car that will pretty much be relegated to a static display on the Can-Am. Makes no sense to Moi - but then, what do I know, eh <grin>
I was really perplexed a bit when in Ottawa regarding the O-train. Seems like I couldn't "get there from where I was" if yaknowwutImean. So, I took bus #95 in from the VIA Rail station and things worked out just fine. From what I've been reading, I don't think I'll be around when the light-rail system gets up ‘n running, much less approved.
Many thanx for the ENCORE! of the CNoR.
Looking forward to your NYC "stuff" . . .
Eric at 1:07 AM
Tuesday Theme for the Day!
Now arriving on track #1 ..... Railroads from Yesteryear!
Number Four
New York Central Railroad
Initially Posted on Page 240 of the original thread
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources. New York Central Railroad Locale: Chicago, IL to New York, NY and Boston, MA Reporting marks: NYC Dates of operation: 1831 - 1968 Track gauge: 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm) (standard gauge) Headquarters: New York, New York The New York Central Railroad (AAR reporting mark NYC), known simply as the New York Central in its publicity, was a railroad operating in the North-Eastern United States. Headquartered in New York, the railroad served a large proportion of the area, including extensive trackage in the states of New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Massachusetts and much of New England and in the Canadian provinces of Ontario and Québec. Its primary connections included Chicago and Boston. The NYC's Grand Central Terminal in New York City is one of its best known extant landmarks. The New York Central was known as the "Water Level Route" as its mainline to New York City ran along the Hudson River. The famous Water Level Route of the NYC, from New York City to upstate New York, was the first four-track long-distance railroad in the world. In 1968 the New York Central merged with its former rival, the Pennsylvania Railroad, to form Penn Central (the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad joined in 1969). That company soon went bankrupt and was taken over by the federal government and merged into Conrail in 1976. Conrail was broken up in 1998, and much of its system was transferred to the newly-formed New York Central Lines LLC, a subsidiary of CSX. That company's lines include the original New York Central main line, but outside that area it includes lines that were never part of the New York Central system. History Pre-New York Central: 1826-1853 The oldest part of the New York Central was the first permanent railroad in the state of New York and one of the first railroads in the United States. The Mohawk and Hudson Railroad was chartered in 1826 to connect the Mohawk River at Schenectady to the Hudson River at Albany, providing a way for cargo on steamboats to avoid the Erie Canal. The Mohawk and Hudson opened on September 24, 1831, and changed its name to the Albany and Schenectady Railroad on April 19, 1847. The Utica and Schenectady Railroad was chartered April 29, 1833; as the railroad paralleled the Erie Canal it was prohibited from carrying freight. Revenue service began August 2, 1836, extending the line of the Albany and Schenectady Railroad west from Schenectady along the north side of the Mohawk River, opposite the Erie Canal, to Utica. On May 7, 1844 the railroad was authorized to carry freight with some restrictions, and on May 12, 1847 the ban was fully dropped, but the company still had to pay the equivalent in canal tolls to the state. The Syracuse and Utica Railroad was chartered May 1, 1836 and similarly had to pay the state for any freight displaced from the canal. The full line opened July 3, 1839, extending the line further to Syracuse via Rome (and further to Auburn via the already-opened Auburn and Syracuse Railroad). This line was not direct, going out of its way to stay near the Erie Canal and serve Rome, and so the Syracuse and Utica Direct Railroad was chartered January 26, 1853. Nothing of that line was ever built, though the later West Shore Railroad, acquired by the New York Central in 1885, served the same purpose. The Auburn and Syracuse Railroad was chartered May 1, 1834 and opened mostly in 1838, the remaining 4 miles (6 km) opening on June 4, 1839. A month later, with the opening of the Syracuse and Utica Railroad, this formed a complete line from Albany west via Syracuse to Auburn, about halfway to Geneva. The Auburn and Rochester Railroad was chartered May 13, 1836 as a further extension via Geneva and Canandaigua to Rochester, opening on November 4, 1841. The two lines merged on August 1, 1850 to form the rather indirect Rochester and Syracuse Railroad (known later as the Auburn Road). To fix this, the Rochester and Syracuse Direct Railroad was chartered and immediately merged into the Rochester and Syracuse on August 6, 1850. That line opened June 1, 1853, running much more directly between those two cities, roughly parallel to the Erie Canal. To the west of Rochester, the Tonawanda Railroad was chartered April 24, 1832 to build from Rochester to Attica. The first section, from Rochester southwest to Batavia, opened May 5, 1837, and the rest of the line to Attica opened on January 8, 1843. The Attica and Buffalo Railroad was chartered in 1836 and opened on November 24, 1842, running from Buffalo east to Attica. When the Auburn and Rochester Railroad opened in 1841, there was no connection at Rochester to the Tonawanda Railroad, but with that exception, there was now an all-rail line between Buffalo and Albany with the completion of the Tonawanda Railroad. On March 19, 1844 the Tonawanda Railroad was authorized to build the connection, and it opened later that year. The Albany and Schenectady Railroad bought all the baggage, mail and emigrant cars of the other railroads between Albany and Buffalo on February 17, 1848 and began operating through cars. On December 7, 1850 the Tonawanda Railroad and Attica and Buffalo Railroad merged to form the Buffalo and Rochester Railroad. A new direct line opened from Buffalo east to Batavia on April 26, 1852, and the old line between Depew (east of Buffalo) and Attica was sold to the Buffalo and New York City Railroad on November 1. The line was added to the New York and Erie Railroad system and converted to the Erie's 6 foot (1829 mm) wide gauge. The Schenectady and Troy Railroad was chartered in 1836 and opened in 1842, providing another route between the Hudson River and Schenectady, with its Hudson River terminal at Troy. The Lockport and Niagara Falls Railroad was chartered in 1834 to build from Lockport on the Erie Canal west to Niagara Falls; it opened in 1838. On December 14, 1850 it was reorganized as the Rochester, Lockport and Niagara Falls Railroad, and an extension east to Rochester opened on Jul
Enjoy!
Tom
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
A few comments and then on to the NYC. I'm witholding NYC-related comments until later as I have a feeling this theme will run longer than just today.
Pete - DL109s were noisy -typical Alco sound - you knew there was a lot going on under the hood.
Rob - Thanks for more Canadaian Northern material
Lars provided Canadian book covers.
Eric - Well, I guessed - and missed everything. We tried.
OSP - Pittsburgh Fox feed reran yesterday's game so I got to see it; don't like the idea of a second MRI for Carpenter. The Olde Towne Team opens today. I think they are doing something to honor the 1967 team today - hard to believe that was 40 years ago. Barmaid, a shot of the good stuff. NPR did a piece on Vimy Ridge last night.
Herewith the first of a two parter on the NYC in WWII. The first part talks about the Central and the Great Tuscan Father. It's hard for me at any rate, to not think of the two lines together as the competition between them was so great for so many years. Tomorrow, we'll spend a day in Buffalo during wartime. Today's post is new, and I ran the second part a looong time ago on the other page.
The New York Central and Pennsylvania 1941-1945: Some Comparisons
Over the years, historians have spent a lot of time comparing the New York Central with the Pennsylvania Railroad. Let's take a closer look at some of the numbers from the greatest challenge ever faced by both railroads.
The story of American railroads in World War II is at once impressive and ultimately overwhelming. The simple fact is that the United States could not have won the war without its railroads. America's railroads faced their greatest challenge in World War II as they were called upon, under difficult conditions, to move unprecedented volumes of freight and passengers. The United States had mobilized economically before Pearl Harbor, and the net income figures of the Nation's railroads reflected this. Net income reached its apex in 1942 and thereafter declined (largely because of increased wartime taxes) although freight and passenger revenue remained high. The railroads sustained a terrible physical beating under the pressure of increased traffic, and this deterioration showed in ever-growing expenses for maintenance and repairs. These expenses also cut into income.
The Pennsylvania Railroad grew rapidly after its founding in 1823. The "P" Company ultimately had two east-west main lines. One main line ran from Philadelphia to Chicago while the other pointed like an arrow from Pittsburgh to St. Louis. The Pennsy's most important north-south line stretched from New York City to Washington, DC. Other north-south routes ran between Mackinaw City and Cincinnati; Logansport and Louisville; and Buffalo and Pittsburgh.
In the east, the Pennsy traversed rugged terrain in the Alleghenies between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. The railroad's engineering department overcame these obstacles to forge a line which carried more tonnage and earned more revenue (as their advertising slogans proclaimed) than any trunk line in the country. Because of traffic density, the Pennsylvania invested heavily to electrify certain portions of its system. The line between New York and Washington was electrified in a project which, by 1935 eventually cost almost $265 million. Wires also ran from Philadelphia west to Harrisburg.
The GG1 locomotive dominated the electrified divisions. This aesthetically pleasing yet powerful locomotive was unsurpassed for durability and versatility, The "G motor" was a 4-6-6-4 electric locomotive capable of sustained operation at speeds over 100 miles an hour. It had a tractive force of between 70 thousand and 100 thousand pounds with a much higher short-term load capacity.
Pennsy steam power, generally of conservative design, had a strong family resemblance. Belpaire fireboxes, squat boilers, high-set headlights, and short stacks often caused the casual observer to make the hasty generalization that all Pennsylvania engines looked alike. The reality was that the railroad's motive power department experimented continually with different (and sometimes bizarre) types of steam locomotives in a never-ending attempt to extract the utmost work from a gallon of water and a ton of coal.
As mentioned above, the PRR's locomotives were well-proven. For example, the I1s Decapod, a 2-10-0 freight locomotive, first appeared in 1916. The I1 was continually refined over the next 14 years until by 1930, it was a massive engine with a tractive force of more than 96 thousand pounds. The M1 class, a 4-8-2 developed in the 20s and 30s, had a tractive force of over 64 thousand pounds. The M1 was a dual service engine, at home in fast freight and passenger service. The Pennsy was power short during the war, and production restrictions forced it, in 1942, to borrow design plans from the Chesapeake and Ohio to create the J1 class 2-10-4, arguably the best freight engine ever to operate on the P Company. On the passenger side, the K4 Pacific first appeared in 1914 and underwent progressive improvements until it became the backbone of the Pennsylvania's passenger fleet. Immediately prior to the war, the Pennsy began to experiment with different types of duplex locomotives; most of these locomotives had extensive design problems, but these concerns became academic as the PRR began converting to diesel power. In general, the Pennsylvania's locomotives proved to be sufficient to meet the needs of wartime traffic. Sometimes, though, resources were stretched to the limit in heavy traffic areas.
The Pennsylvania was undoubtedly a great freight hauler, but it also carried many passengers. The greatest wartime increase in passenger traffic occurred on the New York-Washington line. In 1937, the Pennsy handled approximately 68 thousand passengers in one day on that line. All of these people were traveling to Washington for President Roosevelt's inauguration. No freight trains rolled while the passenger trains ran on that day. Just about six years later, on Christmas Eve, 1943, the PRR moved almost 179 thousand passengers over the same trackage without disrupting the flow of wartime freight and troop trains.
The name trains of the Blue Ribbon Fleet such as the "Broadway Limited" carried many passengers during the war, but the redoubtable P70 coach carried the most people. The P70 first appeared in 1907 and reemerged in an air conditioned version in 1933. Although in part replaced by the P82r coach, the P70 carried most of the Pennsy's revenue passengers between 1941 and 1945. People may have traveled in less than comfortable circumstances, but the Pennsy generally was able to get them to their destinations.
The New York Central System (NYC) evolved from a patchwork collection of smaller lines. By the beginning of the war the components of the NYC included the New York Central Railroad (originally 12 separate lines) between New York and Chicago; the Big Four from Cleveland to St. Louis; the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie from Pittsburgh to Youngstown; and the Michigan Central between Buffalo and Chicago (via Detroit and Canadian points). The Boston and Albany comprised the eastern part of the system, while the West Shore operated via the west side of the Hudson River from Weehawken, New Jersey. The last part, the Peoria and Eastern, operated between Peoria and Indianapolis.
For years, the New York Central had been the Pennsylvania Railroad's greatest rival. They faced different operating problems than did the Pennsy. The Central's celebrated four-track main line swept gracefully up the Hudson Valley from New York to Albany where it turned west toward Chicago. With the exception of the Boston and Albany, the Central was nearly gradeless. The lack of heavy mainline grades dictated different types of locomotives than those found on the PRR.
NYC steam locomotives were designed for tight clearances, quick acceleration, and sustained high speed running. The Central used three types of steam engines to carry the burden of their wartime freight and passenger traffic.
The 4-8-2 Mohawk type dated back to 1916. The Mohawk was called a Mountain types on every other railroad in the country, but such a name obviously would not do on the NYC. The original Mohawk design had been continuously improved by the Central's motive power department until by 1942, it was a proven dual-service locomotive.
The 4-6-4 Hudson was perhaps the best-known of all NYC steam locomotives. The Hudson was a home-grown design which first entered service in 1927. These handsome engines were used in passenger service because of their large drivers and 55 thousand pounds of tractive effort.
By the 1930s, many American railroads were experimenting with the 4-8-4 type of locomotive. These engines were called Northerns (except in the south and on the NYC which called them Niagaras). The Central had first looked at a 4-8-4 design in 1931, but the engine proved to be somewhat less than reliable and was scrapped in 1939. The Central, however, continued to be intrigued by the 4-8-4s potential, and resurrected the design in the mid 40s, when it became clear that the Mohawks could not cope with the wartime volume of traffic. The new Niagaras appeared in 1945 and their 62,500 pounds of traffic effort enabled them to wheel long freight and passenger trains along the Water Level Route. They were all gone by the mid 50s, victims of the diesel.
New York Central passenger service was justifiably famous. Of all the trains in the so-called Great Steel Fleet, the "Twentieth Century Limited" was probably the best-known, but the Central operated a variety of longhaul and local service.
Battered by the Depression, the war aided the NYC's recovery from economic despair as the Central nearly tripled its income between 1941 and 1943. Total operating revenues on the Central peaked in 1944.
The demands of wartime traffic can be statistically represented by the number of train miles and the number of ton miles operated during a particular year. Both of these numbers increased steadily from 1941 through 1944. Concurrently, the larger number of trains which had to be operated to account for these rising figures ran over fewer and fewer miles of track. Track miles for the NYC peaked at 10,939 in 1941. PRR track miles peaked at 10.241; also in 1941.
Steam still ruled the rails. The Nation's railroads owned 39,725 steam locomotives in 1943; the largest number owned during the war. The number of electric locomotives owned remained stable, averaging 857 for the period between 1941 and 1945. Although the diesel locomotive did not really come into its own until after the war, 3,816 diesels were in service by 1945.
Both railroads owned steam, electric, and diesel locomotives. The P Company had 4,408 steam engines in 1945; their largest number during the war. The Central had 3,235 steam locomotives on its roster in 1944.
In 1943, the Pennsy had 287 electric locomotives in operation. The Central had 146 electrics working in 1941 and 1942.
The New York Central was quicker to add diesels than was its competitor. In 1941 the Central had 115 diesels in operation, this figure stood at 263 by 1945. The PRR had a pair if diesels in 1941 with 26 in operation by 1945.
Freight traffic grew throughout the war reaching its peak in 1944 when war industries were in full production. Carried freight peaked a year earlier as materiel for Operation Overlord was in transit to eastern ports. Interestingly, the number of freight cars in service did not show a corresponding increase. Many new freight cars were added to the national pool in 1941-1942, and the largest number of cars retired occurred in 1945. These figures reflect the wear and tear on freight cars from heavy wartime usage.
The Pennsylvania's freight car fleet peaked at 240,699 cars in 1944, and the NYC had 134,913 cars in 1945.
The national passenger car situation was similar to that of freight equipment. Cars were added to the passenger fleet in 1941 and 1942, but over 1,000 cars were retired in each of those years. Government priorities on steel restricted passenger car production after 1942 which explained the drop in new and retired units in 1943 and 1944. The figures again moved upward in 1945. The peak year for revenue passengers carried was 1944 when 595,410,147 people rode passenger trains; more than twice as many revenue passengers as 1941.
The PRR had 5,981 passenger cars in 1945, and the Central reached their high point in 1943 when they had 4,641 passenger cars. PRR trains in 1944 carried 164,611,427 passengers. The Central also peaked the same year with 81,554,513 passengers.
work safe
Ruth, good to see your beautiful and smilin' face this mornin'!! How about my 2nd mugga Joe with another "jolt" and a #3 from the menu board? Keep the change my deAH!
Mighty fine support from Da Bossman and Urls from the man called wanswheel. A good start to the NYC Theme Day here at my favorite Ether Establishment!
In reading through that wikipedia article, there's certainly much left out between the lines. However, it's a good "primer" for anyone needing to get annointed with perhaps the finest northeast railroad of the times. Yeah I know, Pennsy fans want everyone to to the Keystone, however, the NYC System was indeed a mighty fine road.
That Url showing the RDCs, locos, passenger cars and sidings along the Hudson River is simply outstanding. That'd be worth having in print! If only we had the wall space. <grin>
Appears as if I too am experiencing the Gremlin's Grasp here in the ether as I didn't see Shane's post at all, 'til checking back. So, this post is obviously being edited to acknowledge our WVa man for such a fine, fine offering of the comparison between the NYC 'n PRR. A compelling read and chock full o' info for those who enjoy "stats." I particularly found the "numbers" of interest between the inventory of passenger cars (Pennsy had nearly twice as many) to the passengers carried. NYC really had quite an operation! Nice stuff. A 5- Salute to Shane!
Time for some additional "stuff" from me since I selected this for the Tuesday Theme Day!
The Water Level Route map
Ahoy Cap'n Tom!
Ruth my deAH, just a frosty mug of Rheingold if you please - treats for the critters and of course a small jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris! Keep the change you lovely thing! <blush>
Here's my final installment on the NYC for this day. I have a feeling we'll be seeing more 'n more as the week progresses. Just lots of material out there . . .
Some may not enlarge . . . . no, no Boris, don't try to streeeeeeeeeeeeetch 'em! <yikes>
Hi Tom and all
Another great Theme day, so a round for all please RUTH and, of course the usual Bathams for me.
ROB Many thanks for the info on the TR's route boxes. The wooden cars were well built enough to serve those extra 15 years they were called to do. It is good one of them was saved for preservation.
Enjoyed the GnoR encore. I can imagine the feelings of the CPR when the government formed the Canadian National.
ERIC. I believe the BR Warship was painted in the German DB colors as a tribute to the V200s.
British Rail painted 3 of their class 90 electric locomotives in European Railways liveries, in the 1990s and naming them in the equivalent of the British Frieghtconnection. 90128 was in SNCB Belgian railways colors and named Vrachtverbinding, 90128 was in DB German Federal Railways colors as Frachtverbindungen and 90130 in SNCF French livery as Fretconnection. They added some color to the railway scene.
No prize for guessing where today's photo is but are the people at Hudson waiting to view the X2000.
Another excellent theme day on the NYC started and with two other posts by LARS with the usual great bookcovers and map. MIKE Thanks for those great links really good videos on those NYC steam locos wonderful one of the loco picking up water and loved the scenes of New York. Excellent history by TOM, I had missed before that the Erie railroad was originally 6 feet gauge and interesting to read about the lines that formed the NYC. I was thinking about the relationship with the Pennsy when there was CM3's post. The rivalry reminded me of that between the LNER and LMS for the Scottish traffic with LNER having a fairly level route and the LMS having to travel over the Northern Fells and how that too had an effect on the locomotive design. Looking forward to Part 2.
For my contribution I have ‘borrowed' a piece from page 240 by Passengerfan AL.
In keeping with the NYC theme of the day will throw in the following Passengerfan Extra for the day. TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED NYC Trains 25-26 September 15, 1948 New York - Chicago All Pullman daily overnight both directions 970 miles 16 hours The NYC replaced the ten-year-old lightweight streamlined 20TH CENTURY LIMITED train sets with all new diesel powered train sets beginning September 15, 1948. The new 20TH CENTURY LIMITED train sets like the steam powered trains before them operated behind the diesels only between Harmon and Chicago as between Harmon and New York City power was electric locomotives drawing current from third rail into the heart of New York Cities Grand Central Station. The new trains were painted in a new two-tone gray paint scheme with white separation stripes. This was the perfect paint scheme for the 20TH CENTURY LIMITED it exuded elegance and had that touch of real class, missing from the previous 20TH CENTURY LIMITED paint scheme.
The NYC assigned a pair of EMD E7 diesel passenger units to the new 20TH CENTURY LIMITED for power. The new train like its 1938 predecessor was all Pullman top of the line with only the Master Room missing from the 1948 edition of the 20TH CENTURY LIMITED. Not all cars were new for the trains 1949 inaugural but by the end of 1949 the trains were completely re-equipped except for rebuilt 4 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars that remained prewar cars. A sample 20TH CENTURY LIMITED consist as the train appeared in 1949 is listed below. CONSIST ONE 5014 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car CALUMET RIVER 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car PORT OF BUFFALO 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car IMPERIAL CANYON 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car IMPERIAL CASTLE 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car ATLANTIC SHORE Barber Shop Secretary Room Bar 30-Seat Lounge Car 474 16- Crew Dormitory Kitchen Car 400 68- Seat Dining Room Car IMPERIAL FALLS 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car PORT BYRON 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car CASS RIVER 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car PORT OF ALBANY 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car HICKORY CREEK 5-Double Bedroom Buffet 25- Seat Lounge Observation CONSIST TWO 5015 Baggage 30'Railway Post Office Car PASSAIC RIVER 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car PORT CHESTER 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car IMPERIAL HOUSE 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Rom 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car IMPERIAL HIGHLANDS 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car LAKE SHORE Barber Shop Secretaries Room Bar 30- Seat Lounge Car 475 16- Crew Dormitory Kitchen Car 401 68- Seat Dining Car IMPERIAL FOUNTAIN 4-Compartment 2-Drawing Room 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car PORT OF CHICAGO 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car POWDER RIVER 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car PORT OF DETROIT 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car SANDY CREEK 5-Double Bedroom Buffet 25- Seat Lounge Observation TOM Well that took a lot of copying but I hope you all enjoy the post from AL.
I think it was time to get me to leave Pat's when I started singing..
Well I had better try to get back in Manager LARS good books again by unloading the extra boxcars that have arrived with the extra beverages for the Anniversary Thursday .
Pete.
Good afternoon Ruth my Love, you are looking better than most people today, I think I'll have a Guiness and abowl of prezels thank-you and keep the change as always ( best paid and tipped gals in the either I'd say )
Quite the interesting bit of reading this morning and afternoon,truly seems like old times or at least the best of time
Lars-You covered alot of ground today, the efforts are as always well appreciated by those of us who care x5 Hopefully Pete,copoperates in the Patoot room
Tom-Quite the read today loved it. Always easier when it's a well known and well loved topic as it makes the finding of the information much simpler ( no less time consuming however )
I think I'll be old and not carring much by the time the O train and the TTC improvements are approved let alone built and in service. Unfortunatly those in the know still have the all the T's to cross etc etc. On paoper the Feds the Province and the city are finally putting their money together ( 1.2 billion worth ) yup a "B" to finally extend the university subway line down 12 blocks to York University ( subways are the most expensive of lines to build ) it's only taken 20 yeasr to finish this line. The other money another 2 billion worth is being earmarked foe building light rail conections to Go transit and other TTC stations from Newmarket,Etobicoke, and Scarborough, oh yes the east west line out to Mississauga and Pearson airport is intended to be pulled from this purse as well , bet some of the east ward councellers are taking a not in my back-yard approach so lord knows when anything will be built ( and most likley for 10 times the current budget, things never get cheaper <barf> indeed ) same as Ottawa, the O train goes few places fast, but it's there. Sound familier
CM3-A most wonderfull read today. Good cross info between the two big rivals. al;ways interesting. I'm looking forward to the next excerpt.
Mike-great on theme shots and video's well done sir
pete-nice to see you in with a bit of ole 20 finger's prose. With us in print if not in body. you would love 1326, nice hard Cherry wood interior to the car, seats and wall panelling and window sashes. The really don't build them like that anymore. We actually have to do some underframe restoration, the old wooden underpinnings are needing a complete rebuild. For this reason the car is generally a static only piece,it comes out for high days and holy days only.M ind you it is the reason the musuem was founded. It's the first car in the the collection, our founders saved it from the fate of it's sisters in 1954.
Eric-Nice blimp man LOL As a printed above you heard about the proposals in front ogf toronto city council for the surface route extentions. The hope is to make private right of ways running along the hydro canals away from city streets and build connections to existing streetcar and subway/bus stations. looks good on paper but we will ahve to wait and see.
Good evening Captain Tom and all!!
Leon, I made it before midnight! Feels kind of unusual, but not bad. Just a cup of coffee and that lonely Cheese Danish, please!
Lars – Nice start on the New York Central Theme Day! Especially the $100 stock certificate! That was a lot of money then! Can only repeat what I said yeasterday about all railroad books and time to read them. No, I won’t. Quite a few interesting books about NYC and also nice covers! Nice map of the Water Level Route! I love maps! The last book cover, “ New York Central’s Stations and Terminals”, is showing something that looks like Buffalo Central Terminal. Am I right?
Buffalo Central Terminal.Mike – Interesting picture from the Grand Central Depot (the 2nd one), a lot of cars but very few people! I love the video clip with the steam locomotive running by! Tom – I know there is always a lot of talk when a city is looking into the possibilites of building a light rail line. I am surprised it didn’t take that long in Phoenix.Don’t tell Lars, but I added that picture of the Amtrak Hudson station since it is a part of the Water Level Route! But I wanted him to be the one to start this Theme Day!Thanks for a most interesting article on NYC! A lot to read indeed. Too sad such an old railroad is no longer around. Very nice map of the New York Central Lines! I saved a copy for myself.CM3 – 39,725 steam locomotives in the US in 1943! Just one of very interesting facts in your story about PRR and NYC during WW II!! I noticed that NYC had 10,939 track miles in 1941 and PRR had 10, 421 the same year. But PRR had so many more locomotives and cars than NYC! Was that because PRR trackage went through more hilly terrain? Pete – Congratulations!! You are absolutely correct. People at Hudson are waiting to view the X2000! Thanks for the answer about the Warships liveries! I guess they did not add the logos of DB and SNCF on those locos? Rob – Yeah, it is a nice Blimp! Too bad one can’t ride any interurbans in regular service today! Let’s hope they finally build the light rail in Toronto! Subways are extremely expensive to build.
Wednesday's Witticism
Few things are harder to put up with than a good example.
Let's see, oil prices dropped $3 per barrel on the world markets on Monday and petrol is now at $2.67 (rounded) up at "Collusion Corner." That's a WHOPPING drop of ONE CENT! <barf>
And so it's mid-week once again as the rains in mid-continent USA arrived last evening and are continuing into Wednesday. Good place to be is right here with a mugga freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery along with a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from the Menu Board.
An interesting and impressive amount of New York Central material for our Tuesday Theme for the Day. While we surely haven't the numbers anymore, there's quality in "them thar Posts" and to all who contributed, many THANX!
Tomorrow begins a new chapter in the "life" of "Our" Place and I must be candid, Gents: there's no telling how long it will last. I'd like to share the optimism I've seen lately, but this place has limped more than not and has more droughts in gaps between Posts than many of us care to admit. About the best I can offer for this next segment is that for those of you who give a Rat's Patoot, YOU ARE the reason I'm still at this.
Noticed West Coast S Dave browsing yesterday when I checked the bottom of the trains.com Forums page . . .
CM3 at 9:53 AM yesterday: That piece of yours with the comparisons between the PRR ‘n NYC was a fine offering for our Tuesday Theme for the Day. Some really interesting "stuff," some pointed out by Lars. I too was impressed by the numbers of passengers carried by NYC in comparison to the Pennsy and the far and away greater number of passenger cars the Keystone RR had. Also, noted that the actual passenger mileage went to the NYC too. That surely speaks volumes for the "System," eh
In spite of having watched the Cardinals through their not-so-impressive games against the Mets, two out of three wins down in Houston and now with two wins under their belts in Pittsburgh, I'm still not "into" baseball. Should begin the season in mid-April and end it ALL by mid-October (WS included). I see A-Rod is on a tear with the Yanks and has continued to belt ‘em out of the park. Ain't braggin' if ya can do it, eh
Many thanx for the participation, round ‘n quarters - looking forward to part deux!
Lars at 10:08 AM ‘n 11:36 AM yesterday: And the Theme for the Day rolls along with some fine, fine "stuff" from our Manager ‘n NYC fan "supreme" - the Larsman!
Looks like some "new ones" from ya, as I don't recall seeing many of those book ‘n video covers before. The "Water Level Route" map was a good addition!
Wikipidia is an outstanding resource, but should ALWAYS be read with the "Caveat" some material is subject to elaboration, change or debate!" I like using it, but have noticed many, many areas where "suspect" material pops up. "Proceed with caution!"
You "done good," Sir with the selection of the NYC!
Pete at 3:03 PM yesterday: Mixed emotions with the "faux" appearance of 20 Fingers - another of the "mysteries" surrounding the disintegration of what used to be an active ‘n supportive Permanent Order of the Stools. Anyway, his material "lives" and you selected a Post of relevance for the Theme!
Wouldn't worry too much about Manager Lars - his bark is far worse than his bite. He shudda been a Bos'n, but wound up below decks as the "herder of the Snipes." <grin>
I think those rivalries between RRs were healthy in that the traveling public benefited more than not. Better scheduling, updated ‘n modern equipment, amenities and so forth all designed to sway the traveler. Not quite that way today, eh
Be sure to take Boris along with you when unloading those box cars. He loves to help out and does a fine job too. Just say "back" and he'll bend at the waist, back up to the door and let you pile the boxes, barrels, "whatever" on his back, then off he goes. A great "dolly," eh Surprised you weren't told about this . . . Nick taught him that, I believe! <grin>
Thanx for the "day light" visit!
Rob at 4:54 PM yesterday: All I can offer is that famous line from a guy named Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain!" Yeah, rail expansions, especially in urban environments are COSTLY. Well we all know about hindsight, eh But how about FORESIGHT Where were "these people" when a difference could've been made and for a hulluva lot less cash <arrrgggghhh> Anyway, thanx for the insights to the "future" . . . .
Methinks that while you may very well be OLD by the time these "things" happen, you'll ALWAYS care!
Appr
And some more on the "System" . . .
New York Central Railroad (NYC)
20th Century Limited
Initially Posted on Page 381 of the original Thread
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.
Train No. 25 of the Boston & Albany Railroad, The 20th Century Limited, is seen leaving Springfield, Massachusetts on August 22, 1933.
"Drumhead" logos such as these often adorned the ends of observation cars on the 20th Century Limited.
The 20th Century Limited was an express passenger train operated by the New York Central Railroad from 1902 to 1967, during which time it would become known as a "National Institution" and the "Most Famous Train in the World." In the year of its last run, The New York Times said that it "...was known to railroad buffs for 65 years as the world's greatest train." The train traveled between Grand Central Terminal in New York City and LaSalle Street Station in Chicago, Illinois along the railroad's famed "Water Level Route". The NYC inaugurated this train as direct competition to the Pennsylvania Railroad's Broadway Limited, both lines intended for upper class as well as business travelers between the two cities. Making few station stops along the way and as few breaks for water and coal as possible, trains on this route routinely could make the 800-mile (1,300-km) journey in only fifteen and one-half hours (roughly 50 mph or 85 km/h).
Known for its speed as well as for its style, passengers walked to and from the train on a plush, crimson carpet which was rolled out at station stops and specially designed for the 20th Century Limited; thus, the "red carpet treatment" was born.
History
On its inaugural trip June 17, 1902 the train arrived in Chicago at Union Station three minutes ahead of schedule. At that time, the trip took twenty hours, cutting four hours off the time previously required. The New York Times report laid great stress on the routine nature of the trip, with no special procedures being followed and no special efforts being made to break records. It stated that there "...was no excitement along the way," and quoted a railroad official as saying "...it is a perfectly practical run and will be continued," and the engineer (William Gates) as saying "This schedule can be made without any difficulty. I can do it every time, barring accidents."
An early, pre-1920 version of the 20th Century Limited.
In its heyday, regular passengers included Theodore Roosevelt, William Jennings Bryan, Lillian Russell, "Diamond Jim" Brady, the elder J. P. Morgan, Enrico Caruso, and Nellie Melba. In 1928, its peak year, it earned revenues of $10 million and was believed to be the most profitable train in the world. Also in 1928, Erwin "Cannon Ball" Baker, who eventually became the first commissioner of NASCAR, raced the 20th Century Limited from New York to Chicago in an automobile, beating the train. In 1938 the noted industrial designer, Henry Dreyfuss, was commissioned by the New York Central to design the streamlined train sets in Art Deco style, with the locomotive and passenger cars rendered in blues and grays (the colors of the New York Central). The streamlined sets were inaugurated in 1939.
Until 1957, the train only made station stops at Grand Central Terminal and Croton-Harmon for New York-area passengers and LaSalle Street Station and Englewood for Chicago-area passengers [1]. If trains ran on schedule they would pass halfway at Buffalo Central Station. The tracks of the New York and Harlem Railroad were used from Grand Central to the Spuyten Duyvil and Port Morris Railroad, which it used to reach the New York Central's main line along the Water Level Route, north along the Hudson River and west to Buffalo, then southwest and west on the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern Railway along the south shore of Lake Erie, and north into Chicago, merging with the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad at Englewood. In case of track closures, alternate routes such as the New York and Harlem Railroad or West Shore Railroad could be used.
The 20th Century Limited (and specifically, car #10006) was used in the filming of Alfred Hitchcock's North by Northwest, released in 1959. The car was built by Pullman-Standard in 1939, and was scrapped in 1968. It carried the name Imperial State and featured 4 double bedrooms, 4 single compartments, and 2 drawing rooms (a "4-4-2"). The interior of the car as seen in the film is actually set built by MGM Studios.
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Lots of good NYC material so far. I'm going to withhold comments, etc. until a later time as new stuff keeps showing up. Here's part 2 of my NYC in WW2 material. I put this together a loong tome ago, based on timetables, etc. from the day. Buffalo was, in many ways, the heart of the NYC as everything seemed to go through there. Enjoy - wish I had a time machine. BTW, Eric's picture was of Buffalo Central Terminal - preservationists are trying to revive the building, but that's another story for another time.
New York Central Passenger Service at Buffalo - 1944
We'll begin our day a little before midnight because of the way the NYC schedules its trains at Buffalo. It's 11:00 p.m., and we're out on the platform looking toward the west.
Train 6, the "Fifth Avenue Special," a 10:50 a.m. departure from Chicago is due at 11:00 p.m. It carries Pullmans from Chicago, Toledo and Cincinnati for New York. It picks up a 12 section/2 double bedroom Pittsburgh-New York car from train 84 at Buffalo. Train 6 is out at 11:11 p.m. and is due in New York at 7:45 the next morning.
At 11:10 p.m. train 41, the "Knickerbocker," is in the station. This is the first "big" train of the evening with four New York-St. Louis Pullmans, and two set outs at Buffalo. Here comes the switcher, so let's step back. There goes a New York-Cincinnati car for train 15; and here's a Boston-St. Louis car for train 49. Train 49's coaches from Boston join the consist here, also. The "Knickerbocker" will leave at 11:29 p.m.
Wait a minute! Here's comes an eastbound
At 11:12 p.m. train 8/98 arrives. This is the combined "Wolverine/New England Wolverine" which leaves Chicago at 12:01 p.m. and operates via the MCRR before reaching Buffalo. 8/98's arrival is coordinated with train 382, the "Toronto-Buffalo Express" which provides connecting service from Toronto. Trains 8 and 98 split at Buffalo. Let's watch the activity.
An 8 section-buffet Pullman, a 10 roomette/5 double bedroom. a 14 section, and an 8 section-drawing room-2 compartment car go to New York on train 8 along with an 8 section-drawing room-2 compartment car picked up in Detroit. 248 contributes an 8 section-4 double bedroom car which originated at Niagara Falls. A dining car and coaches round out the "Wolverine's" consist which leaves at 12:19 a.m. for a scheduled 8:40 a.m. arrival at Grand Central.
While this has been going on, train 37, the "Advance Commodore Vanderbilt" has arrived at 11:30 p.m. for a seven-minute station stop. Seven Pullmans, a diner, and some coaches are in the consist tonight.
Just before midnight comes train 15, the "Ohio State Limited" It has five through Pullmans for Cincinnati from New York, picks up another New York-Cincinnati car from train 41, picks up the Boston-Cincinnati 10 section/drawing room/2 compartment car from train 49 and adds a 14 section Buffalo-Cincinnati sleeper. 15's rolling again at 11:59 p.m.
A little later, a few tracks over is the westbound "Commodore Vanderbilt" en route to Chicago. This is train 67, all Pullman, does no work at Buffalo, and leaves at 12:34 a.m.
12:34 a.m. - another headlight - from the west. This is train 16, the "Ohio State Limited" arriving from Cleveland. It has the Cleveland-Boston and Cincinnati-Boston cars for 98 which is waiting in the station
Meanwhile, what's going on with train 8/98? Train 98 carries a Chicago-Boston Pullman and a pair of sleepers from Detroit. Train 12 has handed off two St. Louis-Boston sleepers and a pair of Cincinnati-Boston Pullmans. These are added to train 98 at Buffalo. Train 16 has a 12 section drawing room car originating in Cleveland for Boston. A dining car and coaches from St. Louis complete the train. The "New England Wolverine" rolls out at 12:50 a.m. for an 11:59 a.m. arrival at South Station.
While train 8/98 is being broken up, train 82, the "Ontarian," leaves for New York at 11:25 p.m. It carries Toronto-New York Pullmans from train 382 and originates a pair of Pullmans for New York. It's due at Grand Central at 8:00 a.m.
Train 66/28 is the "Advance Commodore Vanderbilt/New England States." It's a massive consist that pauses at Buffalo at 11:48 p.m. to pick up a 12 section/2 double bedroom car from train 88. That done, it's on its way east as quickly as possible.
Train 2 is the "Pacemaker." It doesn't stop at Buffalo.
Train 68 is the "Commodore Vanderbilt" which does no work at Buffalo.
Train 26, the "20th Century Limited," does no work at Buffalo either.
It's 1:00 a.m. and here comes train 27, the "New England States" with six through Pullmans for Chicago. It sets out a 12 section/2 double bedroom car for train 279 which will carry it south to Pittsburgh. The "States" picks up a 12 section/drawing room Buffalo-Chicago car and leaves at 1:19 a.m. for a 9:20 a.m. arrival at La Salle St.
Six minutes behind 27's departure is train 267, the "Water Level Limited," It has five New York-Chicago Pullmans, a diner, and coaches and leaves at 1:34 a.m. It'll be in Chicago at 10:00 a.m.
Train 25, the "20th Century," passes by about now, but does not stop.
There's a break until 2:15 a.m. when train 268, the "Advance Water Level Limited" rolls to a stop. This train left La Salle St Station at 4:00 p.m. It has a nine-minute station stop in Buffalo.
Its 2:35 a.m. Here's number 33, the "New England Wolverine." This has a lot sleepers from Boston en route to Detroit and Chicago, a diner, and some coaches. The switcher cuts out a 12 section/drawing room car for train 19 and adds a 12 section/drawing room Pullman to the consist. This last car originated in New York and arrived at Buffalo on Lackawanna train #5. Train 33 will travel from Buffalo via the MCRR and leaves at 3:04 a.m.
Right close by is train 17, the "Wolverine." It arrived at 2:45 a.m. with Pullmans, a diner, and coaches for Detroit, Grand Rapids and Chicago via the MCRR. It does no work at Buffalo and leaves at 2:54 a.m.
There sure is a lot happening right now. I see train 11, the "Southwestern Limited." It left New York at 7:30 p.m. and is due out of Buffalo at 3:34 a.m. en route to Cleveland. This is a monster with enough cars to delight the most dedicated Pullman fan. Here's five New York-St. Louis cars, two Boston-St. Louis cars, a New York-Cincinnati sleeper and a Boston-Cincinnati sleeper along with a diner and through coaches from New York to St. Louis and Boston to Cleveland. A look at the timetable tells me that en route, #11 handed off a pair of Boston-Cleveland sleepers and a Boston-Toronto car to train 57 at Albany. I'll see 57 in a little while.
Train 10 is the "Water Level Limited" and it's due at 320 a.m. It carries Pullmans from Chicago to New York, Chicago to Boston, Cleveland to New York, and Cleveland to Toronto. The Toronto car's cut out for train 371, and a 12-section 2 double bedroom Buffalo-Albany Pullman added. It's out at 3:35 a.m.
Train 24, the "Knickerbocker," is en route from St. Louis to New York. It leaves at 4:09 a.m.
Train 57, the "Cleveland Limited," is due about now. It's not on the timetable for Buffalo, but it stops to hand off a 10 section/drawing room/2 compartment Boston-Toronto sleeper for TH&B train 371. This was the car that started its trip on train 11.
Right behind 57 is train 21, the "Ontarian-Lake Erie" which stops at 4:50 a.m. To hand off New York-Toronto Pullmans to train 371. It leaves at 5:09 a.m. en route to Cleveland.
The switcher has to hurry to get these cars onto train 371 which leaves for Toronto at 5:01 a.m.
Here comes train 22, the venerable "Lake Shore Limited." It left Chicago at 5:30 p.m. and is here at 5:24 a.m. It does no work at Buffalo and leaves at 5:38 a.m. for New York.
The sky is somewhat lighter now as train 29, the "Niagara," rolls in at 6:45 a.m. It ends its run at Buffalo. Sleepers for Buffalo from Boston, Albany, and Montreal are set out. The passengers can sleep in until 8:00 a.m. if they want. A sleeper and coach from New York for Niagara Falls is set out for train 207. A New York-Chicago (via Niagara Falls) sleeper is set out for train 39 and a Boston-Detroit car is set out for train 35. This car will operate via St.Thomas. The coaches and diner move off to the yard as does the locomotive.
No. 18 is an unnamed train that runs with 22 as far as Cleveland where it splits from the "Lake Shore" to operate as an all-stops run between Cleveland and Buffalo. It's 6:50 a.m. and here comes train 18. It's a big one, however, as it carries sleepers to Buffalo from St. Louis, Chicago, Cincinnati, and Cleveland and coaches from Cleveland. No need to disturb the Pullman passengers as they can stay on the cars until 8:00 a.m.
Train 35 is the "Fast Mail" and it arrives at 7:20 a.m. The switcher's busy with this one. A 12 section/drawing room car is set out for Chicago. This will go west on train 151. The Boston-Detroit car from train 29 is coupled into 35's consist. That's done, and the "Fast Mail's" rolling toward Chicago at 8:04 a.m. and underway for Detroit at 8:15 a.m.
The terminal trackage is really active again. Train 59, the "Iroquois," pulls in at 7:38 a.m. with six New York-Chicago Pullmans, a New York-St. Louis sleeper, and a New York-Cincinnati car. Right behind it is train 159, the "Chicago Express," at 7:45 a.m. 159 hands off coaches to train 59 at Buffalo and 59 departs 7:50 a.m.
The "Genesee," train 63 finishes its run at Buffalo at 7:45 a.m. having left New York at 11:45 p.m. the previous night. It has six New York-Buffalo Pullmans, a New York-Toronto car for TH&B 375, and a New York-Niagara Falls car for train 211. 375 is due out at 8:45 a.m.
It's daylight now, 8:05 a.m., and here's train 58/72 the "Niagara." This one operates from Central Station in Chicago. It's spent just over 12 hours on the road getting here. The switcher's busy with this one, also. A 12 section/drawing room car from Chicago to Albany is cut out. This will be handed to train 72. Train 44 gets an 8 section-drawing room-2 compartment car. Here's two sleepers from Chicago to Buffalo that are cut out along with some coaches. The work's done and what's now listed as train 72 in the timetable departs for New York at 9:00 a.m.
At 9:29 a.m., we see No. 40, the "North Shore Limited." This has a 16 minute station stop to set out a 10 section 3 double bedroom car from Chicago.
Two minutes after 40 departs, train 38 arrives. This is the "Missourian" from Cleveland. It carries sleepers from St. Louis to New York and a 12 section-drawing room car from St. Louis to Buffalo. The Buffalo car is cut out, a 14 section Chicago-Boston car added and 38 is out at 9:54 a.m.
Train 90, the "Advance Forest City," arrives at 11:00 a.m. having left Chicago at 11:30 last night. 90 does no work at Buffalo and leaves at 11:15 a.m.
At 12:55 p.m. train 43, the "South Shore Express," arrives. It sets out a Boston-Buffalo car and departs at 1:14 p.m. It will connect at Cleveland with train 431, the "St. Louis Special."
Train 50 is next. This is the "Empire State Express." It arrives at 1:10 p.m., picks up coaches and leaves at 1:30 p.m.
There's a break in the action until a little before 5:00 p.m.
Train 42, the "Boston Express" departs at 4:55 p.m. It's due in Boston at 6:30 the next morning. It will pick up and set out other Pullmans en route, but for now it leaves Buffalo with a 10 section sleeper, coaches and a diner.
Five minutes later comes the "Easterner" which has been on the road from Chicago since 9:45 a.m. stops to pick up a 10 section/2 drawing room/2 compartment sleeper for Boston and to set out a coach from Pittsburgh. 52's moving again at 5:15 p.m.
Also at 5:00 is train 51, the "Empire State Express." It sets out coaches and is out at 5:15 p.m. for an 8:40 p.m. arrival in Cleveland.
Train 5, the "Mohawk," is in at 7:48 p.m. after a daylight run across New York. It has through Pullmans from New York to Chicago and picks up at Buffalo Pullmans for Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Chicago The "Mohawk" pulls at 8:10 p.m.
At 9:50 a.m., trains 14/46 the combined "Interstate Special/Boston Special departs LaSalle St. At 8:45 a.m. train 44, the "New York Special" leaves Central Station in Chicago. 14/46 operates via the NYC and 44 runs on the MCRR. Everything arrives at Buffalo at 940 p.m. In the meantime, TH&B train 380 from Toronto pulls in at 9:22 p.m. The switchers are busy again as train 14 terminates at Buffalo.
It hands off two Chicago-Boston cars to no. 46. One sleeper is a 12 section drawing room car and the other's an 8 section/buffet car. A 14 section Chicago to New York car goes to train 44 and a Chicago-Boston coach is passed to train 46. Train 46 gets an 8 section/drawing room/3 double bedroom car from train 44 and a Toronto-Boston car from the TH&B. Two other sleepers originate at Buffalo for train 46; one is an 8 section/5 double bedroom car for Boston and the other a Montreal-bound 10 section/buffet car which will be passed to Adirondack Division #5 at Utica.
Since it's not Saturday train 44 gets a pair of Niagara Falls-New York Pullmans. It gets one Niagara Falls car on Saturday. We understand from looking at the timetable that train 44 will have 15 Pullmans in its consist by the time it gets to New York. It will split again at Albany with one section going to Boston and the other to Grand Central. 46 is out at 10:00 p.m., and 44 rolls away ten minutes later.
Train 39 is the "North Shore Limited," due at 10:02 p.m. for a 17-minute station stop. It carries cars from New York to Chicago and picks up a 10 section/3 double bedroom Pullman at Buffalo for Chicago. It handles other sleepers en route.
It's 10:55 p.m. and we see train 49, the "Advance Knickerbocker" which has been traveling all day from Boston. It will had off a Boston-St. Louis Pullman and coach to train 41 at Buffalo and will hand off a 10 section/2 drawing room/2 compartment car to train 15 at Buffalo.
The parade's starting again, but that's enough for one day.
Mets won! Cards are winning and the NL is off ‘n running for 2007. Yanks are in a power surge and the BoSox put it to your "defector" as they jumped all over Seattle last night.
Ah, Ruth my deAH, a radiance only matched by the sun! You surely do have a ‘way' about ya! <blush> Ah yes, a mug of hot coffee with a "jolt" if you please. Nothing to eat, just yet . . .
Pleased to report that Wolfman, our Bar Chandler is fully on board with the "way we do things" aspect to his well-paying commitment to excellence! <huh?>
New York Central SYSTEM rages on thanks to Da Boss and Shane! So, without further delay, let me provide the boys with something to support what we do ‘round here - talk and look at - CLASSIC TRAINS!
NYC 4-8-4 6025 passenger, Bellefontaine, Ohio in 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central 0-8-0 switcher #7632 at Bellefontaine, Ohio in 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central "Niagara" #6019 meets #2334 freight engine at Englewood, Illinois in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central 4-8-4, #2938, and 2-8-2, #1549, meet in the yard at Bellefontaine, Ohio, 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
NYC 4000 series EMD E7 diesels power an evening passenger train near Bellefontaine, Ohio, 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
So, what's NOT to like, huh
Hi Tom and all.
I have been without an Internet connection all morning, the provider had a problem, really hope this does not happen tomorrow. Then had to go to town but back now and have read the posts. So a Bathams for me and a round please RUTH.
ROB No wonder car #1326 is so much thought of in your museum, being the first car at the museum way back in 1954.With a wooden frame as well there must be a lot of work, reading about the interior of the car, I would indeed love to see her in person one day.
Watched the KC Royals against Toronto last night (I won't mention the score) they showed a view of Toronto with a trolley passing.
Looks like I am in Lars good books again (I hope).
ERIC. The class 90s painted in the colors of the SNCB, DB and SNCF did have the logos on them. I have tried to see if I could find some photos on the web of them but was unlucky. I did find some pics of the 90s in Railfrieght livery it was very similar to the SNCF scheme.
http://www.freefoto.com/browse.jsp?id=23-42-0
Thanks for the photo of Buffalo Central Terminal.
CM3 Apart from the break in the afternoon, the activity at Buffalo was non-stop. I guess in 1944 it would mainly steam hauling the trains with just a few diesels and the trains very busy with the wartime traffic. If a time machine were available it would be a wonderful way to spend 24 hours.
Many thanks for the post.
LARS "well-paying commitment to excellence"
Great NYC days Thanks for those photos. I see the NYC Niagaras in the photos were fitted with smoke deflectors in the photos. I have not seen them on many other locos in North America, I wonder if the NYC was the only road to fit them to their locomotives.
We should be able to see NYC 4-8-2 ‘Mohawk' # 2933, at the St Louis Museum of Transport during the rendezvous.
TOM Many thanks for the 20-th Century Limited. It was indeed a Great Train but I bet it would be hard to get a Pennsy fan to say it was better The Broadway Limited. With those two trains running it certainly was the golden age of North American train travel.
It was sad and perhaps a sign of things to come when the very last 20-th Century Limited was delayed 9 hours by a freight derailment..
For my part on the NYC today I hope it is alright to 'borrow' your post, TOM, also from page 381 of the old Our Place.
Continuing with the New York Central, check these out!
You may want to check these out at: http://www.uncledavesbrass.com/CIL-1938.HTML for a better view.
These models are in HO scale and are from Challenger - undoubtedly fine quality, but my guess is they are very expensive. Oh yeah, interiors are detailed as well. Would surely make a fine consist behind some ALCO PAs or EMD E8s in the lightning bolt livery. Ummmmmmm. " border="0" width="15" height="15" />
Me again. TOM did you get my e-mail yesterday as the puter was playing up a bit then.
BORIS was a great help getting all the ales etc ready for tomorrow. All his dolls are fully airtight, AWK TEX and FROSTBITE are all smartened up and ready for the festivities.
So LEON, I see RUTH as left and no doubt getting ready for which hopefully will be a busy day tomorrow.
Pete
Buffalo Central Terminal
http://www.trainweb.org/rshs/Image3.gif
http://central.terminal.railfan.net/pics/1950-1970/termair.jpg
http://central.terminal.railfan.net/pics/railphoto.cgi?1950-1970/nittrain.jpg
Largest cities in the U.S census of 1910, all either Pennsy, Central or both.
1. New York 4,766,883
2. Chicago 2,185,283
3. Philadelphia 1,549,008
4. St. Louis 687,029
5. Boston 670,585
6. Cleveland 560,663
7. Baltimore 558,485
8. Pittsburgh 533,905
9. Detroit 465,766
10. Buffalo 423,715
Pennsy GG1 Army trains 1935
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49301051_025.do
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49301051_026.do
Penn Station
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49305131_008.do
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49315031_003.do
Canada
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49309071_026.do
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49309071_027.do
http://www.thoughtequity.com/video/clip/49310131_034.do
Today is a remarkable day! Time to celebrate all day long!
Happy 2nd Anniversary!!!
What are we waiting for? All drinks are on me from now until noon!
Yes, Leon, I'll have my Rumpsteak Café de Paris! With the usual side orders! You must have been cleaning this place all evening, haven't you? Ruth did? And Boris? Yeah, it looks beautiful.
Tom – You mean that the gas price actually dropped 1 cent! Here it went up two cents at some stations! Today I had to make it here after midnight in order to start celebrating the 2 year Anniversary!!! And since you are the guilty one who started this bar and tavern by the siding I Salute You Sir!!! Well Done!!!A nice and interesting article about a very famous train, the 20th Century Limited!! 65 years of service! To late to ride today, but I can always imagine! Reading about the inaugural trip, when the train arrived three minutes ahead of schedule, makes me remember when I was operating the X2000 in Sweden on its inaugural trip from Stockholm to Gothenburg September 4, 1990. It was very important that we made it all the way on time and when we had about 7-8 minutes left to Gothenburg I was 6 minutes ahead of schedule. The the word came from the President of the railroad (he was on the train) that he didn’t want us to be ahead of schedule, we should be right on. Imagine losing 6 minutes when you have 7-8 minutes left. I had to slow down and the last two miles a streetcar passed the X2000!!! (There is a streetcar track next to the railroad the last few miles). I thought it was ridiculous, but I stopped the train exactly at the right time so the President was happy. CM3 – Wow!! What a great, factual story!! Love it! I can see all the switching going on and trains leaving and arriving! A lot of research and then putting it togehter like a novel! Wow again!Question: This must be the Buffalo Central Terminal, right? Lars – I think Ruth has forgiven you by now, hasn’t she? What is NOT to like? That those locomotives and trains can’t be seen today! That is what I don’t like. But you are doing a great job showing us the pictures from that time. Pete – So they actually had the correct logos on them! Nice! I’ll do some research and see if I have better luck. Thanks!I am glad you borrowed Tom’s pictures! Very nice models indeed! Nice train set, 11 cars long. Mike – Some nice pictures of Buffalo Central Terminal and its trains! I copied the view from above! I did not have much luck with those videos though. The sound worked and if I moved the “screen” so only 1/3 was visible, I could see the films. I saw some GG1s and Penn Station! Thanks!
I had hoped to be able to post something else today, but I couldn't find two missing pieces so I put this together in a hurry. It shows some randomly picked pictures from when we learned "everything" about the X2000 and the first test run. All photos: Christer Sjöborg.
"Everything" meant almost everything, like hundreds of diagrams.
Ready to begin the class.
Models were used to show in detail how things worked.
We learned how to program the computers controlling the train.
We looked at the "real" things.
Even equipment on the roof.
Finally, after three months, ready for the first test run.
Before we start the equipment in the cab is checked.
And the technical staff is all set and ready.
Have a nice day!
Good morning one and all! How is everyone on this 2nd, an unprecedented anniversary of Our Place? Before I say anything further, howabout that first post of the day from Eric? Three cheers to you sir for your fancy anniversary artwork and the exclusive X2000 testing photos and information. WOW!! What a special treat for us, and it's much appreciated.
Hokey Smokey, do I ever have a lot of catching-up to do. The posts from the past few days have been, as Tom puts it, small in quantity, but truely "quality" stuff. The pictures, information and commentary were first rate! I will be back throughout the day to be more inclusive, but in the meantime ... glad I got in early so I could take advantage of the free drinks. I suppose I had better get a few light breakfasts before my diet consists of nothing but liquid.
Anyhow, as I said earlier, I will be in throughout the day to provide material that has proven popular at Our Place in the past with certain individuals, starting with:
5:10 PM, April 2, 1981. The signals and crossovers clear a path for a tardy PATrain #115. Four RDC's attempting to make up lost minutes roll into view. They have been delayed by numerous slow orders due to extensive track work on both B&O and PL&E. The stainless steel snake slithered thru the interlocking then disappeard into the deepening shadows of the mill racing to the terminal.
The source of my contributions today, are from a defunct magazine called "Rails Northeast", which carried a volunteer staff, and the subscribers were the contributors. These particular pictures came from the August 1981 edition, and the photos and description come from a railfanning article named "Afternoon Delight" by Keith Clouse.
See ya'll a bit later!
I received a phone call from a gorgeous ex-girl friend the other day. We lost track of time, chatting about the wild, romantic nights we used to enjoy together. I couldn't believe it when she asked if I'd be interested in meeting up and rekindling a little of that "magic". "Wow!" I said. "I don't know if I could keep pace with you now. I'm a bit older than when you last saw me." She just giggled and said she was sure I'd " rise" to the challenge. "Yeah." I said. "Just so long as you don't mind a man with a waistline that's a few inches wider these days!" She laughed and told me to stop being so silly. She teased me saying that tubby men were cute, and she was sure that I would still be a great lover. Anyway, she giggled and said, "I've put on a few pounds myself!" So I told her to bugger off, and hung up.
Happy 2nd Year Anniversary to all who frequent "Our" Place!
April 12th and it's our 2nd Year Anniversary!
<Juneau, our 1st mascot>
Breakfast is free today, so help yourself to the pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery, the <light> and <traditional> selections form the Menu Board and of course our freshly ground ‘n brewed "famous" coffee!
<Awk the Parrot>
Acknowledgments (since my last narrative):
CM3 at 8:23 AM yesterday: A must read for ALL who frequent this place of ours! What a fine submission and one that surely will take you "back" to the halcyon days when REAL trains kept REAL schedules with THROUGH cars to scores of destinations and all DESIGNED to provide as "seemless" as possible rail experience for the travelers.
This chronology of yours should be put between hard covers and sold as a book! I'd buy one, fer sure, fer sure! Well done, Mate and many THANX! [yeahhh]
<Herr Wurlitzer>
<Coal Scuttle>
Lars at 10:43 AM yesterday: Another outstanding spate of Pix from our Manager - 5 NYC steamers and a diesel passenger consist!
<Manager's Bar>
Pete at 5:52 PM yesterday: Neither snow, nor sleet, nor dark of night, nor ‘puter problems shall keep the Bar Chandler from his post and Postings at "Our" Place! l<grin> Glad you made it in and sorry that your "nightmare" with the comp-u-tater continues.
Rerun of the NYC passenger cars made for a fine supplement to the carryover "theme"!
Your Email arrived - I've been "tardy" with a response! <groan>
<Frostbite the Penquin>
<Brew from Merry Olde>
Mike at 9:20 PM yesterday: URLs - URLs ‘n URLs!
<Frostbite's Mom ‘n Dad>
Eric at 1:13 AM today: A most creative ‘n appreciated 2nd Anniversary greeting, fer sure, fer sure! A gold 5- Salute to our Resident Desert Swede!
Great run of X2000 "inside scoop" Pix! Undoubtedly there will be a rush to "steal ‘em" by those who delight in those sorts of things. But WE KNOW who took ‘em and who they were meant for and why! Many THANX!
Glad things worked out positively for you with the President on board - most times that's when Murphy's Law kicks in! <grin>
A fine inclusive ‘n informative Post to begin our 3rd year!
<Tex the Armadillo>
Doug at 5:02 AM today: The barn weevil, replete with some super-fine Pix (how can you go wrong with RDCs!?!?! Nice stuff, quality - as always!
<"Our" Place Christmas Train>
SUGGESTIONS for next week's Tuesday Theme for the Day are most welcome!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing. Tonight is our Fish ‘n Chips Nite! We'll also have an "expanded" menu to commemorate our 2nd Year Anniversary! Dinner begins at 5 PM!
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please, round for the house, and $ for the jukebox.
Second Anniversary greetings to all. The interior picture is a good one - it's not very often we see the furniture so neatly lined up and everyhting in its appointed place.
Another NYC-related piece. This is one I posted a long time ago, but it seemed to be a good time to rerun it, especially for those who might not have seen it b4.
Mohawks and the Boston and Albany
If the New Haven and the Boston and Maine were "home" roads, then the Boston and Albany was the way to the west. My mother, whose limited sense of geography was legendary in the family, was convinced that anything past Albany was the Middle West and quite possible desert populated by Indians. She believed the B&A (even if its equipment was lettered New York Central) to be a granger road that somehow appeared from the sky and plopped down in Massachusetts. All of this was based on the fact that the NYC's trains operated to exotic locales in Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri, let alone Utica, Rome, Syracuse and, God help us, Buffalo, Detroit and Toronto!
I pored over the Central's ads in the National Geographic, especially the ads for the overnight trains that ran along the Hudson River from New York to the west. I recall a piece that led off, "One by One the Windows Close Their Eyes." This showed a generic moonlight scene somewhere along the Mohawk Division. A westward train ghosted along in the moonlight on the immaculately maintained four-track main line. It was late at night, the ad copy said, and people were going to bed after an elegant meal in the diner, and some conversation and a drink in the lounge car. They would surely arrive at their destination the next morning well-rested after a good night's sleep along the Water Level Route. Another favorite was a wallow in nostalgia that appeared around Christmas. This ad pictured a toy train running around a Christmas tree. The copy, written to the tune of "Jingle Bells" ran to the effect that, "Oh what fun" it was "to ride on a New York Central train."
The reality of the NYC in New England was a lot different. The Central reached New England via the rails of the Boston and Albany - a gritty, blue-collar, sleeves rolled up railroad. The ancestry of the B&A went back almost to the beginning of the railroads in the United States. They steadfastly maintained their independence even after they had been absorbed by the much larger New York Central. I never recall hearing anybody on that road ever say they worked for the Central. It was always "I'm with the B&A," or "I'm an Albany man." The B&A contended with terrain and weather that more closely resembled that encountered by the Baltimore and Ohio or some western roads. People talked about the B&M's Fitchburg Division as being a terror in the winter, but they never had to deal with an ice and snow filled cut at Washington, Twin Ledges, State Line Tunnel or Charlton Hill.
Many B&A trains were diesel powered when I was growing up, but there was still some steam. My father rode the B&A when he traveled to jobs in western New England. He frequently traveled back to Boston on a local train, and I'd get to go with my grandmother and mother when they went to meet him at a suburban stop west of Boston.
Newtonville station was about in the middle of where I-90 is now. In the late 40s, however, the Newtonville station stood at the bottom of a grass covered knoll that swept down to the tracks. Here the railroad was in a space unconfined by walls or buildings. It afforded an entirely different prospect to the viewer. Westbound trains rolled through there if they were not scheduled to stop.
In the golden sunlight of a fall afternoon, the silvery rails of the four track B&A main line curved away to the west. To the east was Boston and the tracks receded from the station in a forced perspective enhanced by several highway overpasses. Now, from the east, barely discernable, a pinpoint of light appeared, grew larger and then seemed to stand still for a time. The light suddenly grew larger and then still larger and a faint, almost singing, sound was heard from the rails. Smoke was visible now above the light. The engine blasted out from beneath the overpasses, and then with a couple of enormous "chugs" passed in a welter of hissing steam, flailing drivers, heat and the aroma of coal smoke, hot grease, and oil. A quick glance in the cab window reveled the fireman hard at work in white cap and blue shirt and the engineer silhouetted in the window on the other side of the cab, one hand on the throttle and the other resting on the cab window ledge, his eyes staring intently at the track ahead. There were some filthy New York Central baggage and mail cars behind the tender followed by coaches, a diner, and four heavyweight sleepers. I later found out that the locomotive was a 4-8-2 Mohawk, probably among the last of its type in New England, and that the train was the "New England Wolverine" with cars in its consist for Detroit and Canadian cities. The train headed off to the west, its smoke hanging over the tops of the cars, the fragrance of coal smoke lingering after its passage along with a slight dusting of cinders and smaller particles. It was glorious.
Now let's ride the New Haven to GCT; we'll see some of the New York Central as well.
South of New Haven (west by timetable) the New Haven roperated a bewilderingly complex commuter service to and from New York. A four track main line ran under the wires in most places, except where buildings were too close to the tracks. The commuter trains usually operated on the outside two tracks and the through passenger trains on the inner two tracks. Add in the through and local freight traffic that operated then, too, and you'll get some idea of the activity that existed on the NYNH&H. It was not uncommon to see four or more trains at one time; all running. Many NH suburban stations were wooden structures, painted red or buff with white trim. Some of the larger towns, such as Stamford, Connecticut had more elaborate stations. The commuter trains were mostly mu cars that resembled subway cars. There were some stainless steel mu "washboard" cars too, but I remember these as the exception rather than the rule. Arrival at New York was either at Grand Central Station or at Pennsylvania Station.
Going to Grand Central we would swing up and over the New York Central on a magnificent flying junction at Woodlawn. Then we'd drop down on the west side and tie in with the NYC. Here was a stretch of big time railroading for certain as our train shared space not only with other New Haven trains, but with the trains of the mighty Central. Heading into New York, we'd pass by the Central's Mott Haven yard which was on the right hand side of our train. Mott Haven was a delight as it was always filled with not only with New Haven cars of all types, but also stainless steel New York Central cars, two-tone gray New York Central cars, and visiting sleepers and other equipment from foreign lines such as the Santa Fe and the Union Pacific.
Here's where the time spent studying the timetables my father brought home paid off, as I was able to recognize the different kinds of cars when I saw them, and sometimes could even figure out what trains they were from or for. Over there is part of the "Ohio State Limited," those cars are for the "20th Century," and there's a Los Angeles-New York sleeper off the Santa Fe!
The New York Central's Hudson line joined us from the right just south of Mott Haven and from there the procession into New York was on a high elevated track through Harlem. Many times, we stopped at 125th Street, and I was often lucky to see a New York Central run pulled by one of their electric locomotives. The buildings here were different than those in Boston. I could see apartment houses with factories nearby, often on the same block. Many of these buildings had wooden water towers on their roofs, again something that was not that common in Boston. One other place that had water towers on building roofs was Chicago. We had TV by then, and I'd watch Jackie Gleason's show, "Live from New York!" He had a series of sketches on the show called the "Honeymooners" which was set in Brooklyn. The buildings I could see heading into New York looked like the ones in the "Honeymooners."
We're getting close now and here we go into the Park Avenue tunnel. If I stretched just right I could look up through the openings in the tunnel and see the tall buildings that marked the passage toward Grand Central. The entrance to Grand Central was always thrilling as we crept through the darkness of the tunnel toward our assigned track. We're going very slowly now, past the underground tower with the lighted boards that controlled train movements in and out of the station. One last shudder and we stop. Now's the time to make sure we have everything we brought along with us - the car attendant has our bags out on the high level platform. Sometimes I carried my bags, but most of the time we used the services of a Red Cap, especially if the family was traveling together.
Have a good one.
Work safe
Good Morning Captain Tom and fellow sophisticates!
Ruth, you do remember me of course! I will have a cup of coffee with just a "splash" to make it interesting along with two number three selections from the menu. Lydia will have a pot of tea and we shall sit over there by the windows overlooking the main lines. Thank you (she IS truly a gorgeous individual)!
Good to be back amongst some friends and comfortable surroundings. As this is the 2nd Year Anniversary celebration for the bar we call "Our" Place, I simply could not miss at least making our presence known on this special day and occasion.
Cap'n Tom, you put together quite a collage of materials in your opening posting, one that truly reflects the atmosphere of "Our" Place. Good show!
I have been reminded by my erstwhile (and ONLY) that Sir Doug has provided the bar with some terrific graphics. We can credit him with the bar photo, the Christmas train and of course, Boris. One that I recall from way back was that creation Sir Doug put together of Cap'n Tom standing on the front porch of "Our" Place. Now that was really special. I would love to see it one more time.
It has been quite a rapid climb in the page totals since the place was "reborn." It surely seems that in spite of the downward spiral in terms of active customers, there is no shortage of quality material to view and enjoy. What has always separated this idea of our Mentor and Proprietor from so many other sites in the place called ETHER (eeeTHA, as spoken in NYCity! Sorry "bookend"!!!) is that there is substance here and a forum whereby people can connect with one another over an assortment of topics. Fun and sharing of knowledge about railroading makes for a most interesting and successful watering hole.
I find it difficult to accept the passage of time since my first visit to this establishment, but time waits for no man, so it has been said many times. So many names are missing, but there are still some fixtures frequenting the bar from days long ago before anniversary number one.
Sir Rob (now known as trolleyMAN I note!!) - Sir CM3 (Shane seems to have taken hold!) and Sir Dave (the S-man in Iraq!) are three who go way back with this bar. Then of course Sir Doug (calling himself the barn weevil lately) - Sir Pete (Wolfman, a moniker given by one of our most memorable patrons - Sir Nick!) and of course the Proprietor himself, Cap'n Tom. Yes, quite a bit of bar banter, history and contributions tied up with those six!
I must make mention of perhaps one of our most dependable, reliable and most enthusiastic supporters of the bar. The gentlemen we know as Sir Eric. A most innovative creation from you and I thank you for including me for recognition within your "2." A humbling observation, indeed.
For those who "know" me, I am the novice of novices when it comes to all things railroad. As a youngster, my parents exposed me to train travel in the U.S. northeast and Canada. It was a marvelous time for trains and in spite of all that happened in the world during and following WWII, a great time to grow up. There were values, there were role models and sights to see and experiences to imprint in the mind of a child for a life time. The department store window displays at Christmas with the Lionel and American Flyer (Gilbert) trains. The hustle and bustle within and outside of city train stations is something I can still "see" and "hear."
I do not know why mine was to be an adulthood devoid of an interest in trains, but as I grew into manhood they seemed nothing more to me than a way to get from point A to point Zed. Again, harkening back to those who "know" me, my travels have taken me to locations around the world, with the majority in northern Europe. In some instances I did travel by rail and thanks to the exposure to the subject at this bar, I now APPRECIATE those travels far more today than I did when they took place.
I have shared some of my very limited knowledge and experiences with you and so many times wondered whether I was embarrassing myself, or those of you were simply being "nice" to me. I quickly discerned that the interaction was honest, open and sincere. That and that alone is why I continued to climb aboard "my stool" for a round and a story or two.
"Our" Place is indeed a special creation and for all who have crossed the thresholds (there are TWO front doors!) and taken advantage of the hospitality, you surely know what I mean. Yes, the numbers are down, but as has been said so many times, circumstances do not always remain static. Life has twists and turns leading us to places we would never had imagined. I think there are more people "out there" than we may give credit to who have taken a positive experience with them as the doors closed behind them. For the others, well, you KNOW my feelings regarding them. I like Cap'n Tom's expression: Screw ‘em all but six, and save them for pall bearers! Sums up my feelings quite well.
So Gentlemen of "Our" Place, as called by the Manager Lars, I toast each and every one of you who are indeed the glue holding this place together! I toast the good health and fortune for each and every one of you who give that proverbial Rat's Patoot Cap'n Tom refers to! Finally, I toast the characters and critters of "Our" Place, for you too have a place in the mind's eye of every "regular" who has frequented this establishment. Cheers and hope to see you all for the 3rd Year Anniversary!
Finally, for those attending the Second Annual Rendezvous in St. Louis, have a great time. I have sent Cap'n Tom a "little something" in advance as a remembrance of me for one of your evenings out.
Boris, take this fifty and ensure that the bar is set up on me for as long as it lasts. Good grief man, you need not ring that bell 50 times!
Best wishes to one and all!
Bud & Lydia K
Good morning again Tom and friends! If Eric is still buying, I'm drinking! Looks like some mighty fine posts so far this day. Nice arrangement of all things "Our Place" from Captain Tom. We've sure come a long way over the past few years.
Great NYC Boston and Albany stuff from CM3 today. Very well written and so descriptive you can easily envision being there. I've got a little NYC post for later today to continue the theme manager Lars began on Tuesday.
Wonderful to see BK this fine day as well. A picture request for me? Of course, here's the gang from the first reunion
Then there's the picture you requested
Be seeing ya'll later folks, and here is another article from "Rails Northeast
From 4935 to 4877 - The Pennsy Lives On by Robert Palmer
October 10, 1980 was a sad day for all railfans because GG1 #4935 , which had gained nationwide publicity by being painted in her original PRR livery of Brunswick Green and pinstripes, made her last run. But now, suddenly, a successor has arisen to take over where #4935 left off. This successor, New Jersey Transit owned GG1 #4877, will no doubt gain just as much, if not more fame than #4935 because instead of Brunswick Green, #4877 sports Tuscan Red! Although she never wore it originally, GG1 #4877 has been painted Pennsylvania Railroad Tuscan Red with gold pinstriping and lettering.
GG1 #4877 in silver primer inside the Raritan paint shop, on May 27, 1981. Notice the pantographs have been raised to their highest level so that they would not be painted.
This news will shock many people when they first hear it, because the idea that led to #4935's painting was proposed in Trains Magazine and she received full coverage as the restoration progressed. But, #4877 was painted almost "overnight" and behind peoples' backs. The whole job was done in just under three weeks.
Ever since, New Jersey D.O.T. first acquired GG1's #4872-4884 in 1976, there have always been rumors floating around that one, or all of them, would be painted. Many thought a GG1 would emerge in purple and silver like New Jersey D.O.T.'s E8's. But that never happened.
Then suddenly, in early 1981, rumors spread like wildfire when several N.J.D.O.T. (now called N.J. Transit) GG1's appeared with four thin metal strips welded horizontally across each air intake, exactly where pinstripes would go (the fifth pinstripe runs above the intake). These strips appeared on GG1's 4873, 4882 and of course 4877. But, as the weeks rolled by, nothing further developed.
Finally in the middle of May, the decision was made by N.J. Transit and #4877 was picked to be painted.
On Wednesday evening, May 13th, 1981, GG1 #4877, still in regular service, pulled a N.Y. & L.B. train from New York to South Amboy. At approximately 3:00 A.M. that Thursday morning, two N. J. Transit E8A's coupled onto #4877 and hauled her north out of Amboy and West over the Jersey Central Main to the N.J. Transit paint shop in Raritan, NJ, making #4877 the first GG1 painted anywhere except Wilmington.
The job of painting her was assigned to two veterans, Ed Babey and Jeff Hornecker, the men responsible for painting all N.J. Transit engines.
Before any painting took place, there was plenty of body work to be done. All dents, holes and rusted portions were filled with fiberglass and sanded. This work was slow and tedious, but for Ed and Jeff this was more than just another engine. They knew the significance of what they were doing and all men who have a great deal of pride in their work.
As black paint was sanded off, many reminders of the past began to reappear. The large keystone and broad yellow stripe appeared on both sides. On the ends, below the headlights, a tangled mess of heralds was formed as the PRR keystone, the PC worms and a small CR were all exposed, each on top of each other.
At 11:45 A.M. on the morning of June 1st, N.J. Transit GP-7 #5905 eases GG1 #4877 out of the Raritan paint shop for the first time in new livery.
By Wednesday, May 27th, the body work was completed and that morning, after taping over the windows, headlights, and marker lights, #4877 was sprayed with silver primer. While Ed and Jeff ate lunch, #4877, in her new silver coat, basked in the grimy, dimly lit single track Raritan paint shop. After lunch, her short-lived, pure silver coat was ruined. Any area that was to have striping or lettering was sprayed a bright metallic gold. The gold was sprayed all over the sides, behind that marker lights and below the headlights. After the gold dried, the meticulous job of applying lettering and pinstriping began and copies of the original PRR GG1 painting blueprints were brought out. Extreme care was taken to assure that each letter and each stripe was placed exactly where it should be. For those of you not familiar with the procedure, the letters, numbers and pinstripes are formed with tape and applied on the gold in the proper location. Then the Tuscan Red is sprayed over the entire engine. When the paint dries, the tape is removed and the gold lettering and striping exposed.
This delicate procedure took all day Friday, with most of the time being spent getting the five stripes to gently curve and drop down to an exact point on the nose.
With the taping done, the plan was to spray the Tuscan Red Monday morning and roll her out Tuesday. Then, over the week-end May 30-31, the big brass of N.J. Transit decided they wanted #4877 completed Monday June 1st, as was originally planned. They called Ed and Jeff in bright and early Sunday morning to spray the Tuscan Red. By the time word of this got out the painting was already done, so very few pictures exist of the Tuscan Red being sprayed.
Jeff Hornecker (left) and Ed Babey (right) admire their creation just minutes after being pulled out of the paint shop.
Monday morning dawned clear and sunny, and the small group of railfans who had been fortunate enough to hear the news gathered at the Raritan shop. Inside sat GG1 #4877, in Tuscan Red with tape still hiding the lettering and striping. The excitement grew as the tape was removed and the word Pennsylvania and the numbers 4877 were exposed on one side, then the other. The Pennsy livery began to take shape as tape hiding the keystones was removed. Finally, the pinstripes and the teardrops behind marker lights were exposed and all who were there were left speechless by the beauty and magnificence of the locomotive. Everything was perfect, right down to the thin stripe that circled #4877 at the base of the carbody.
The moment everyone had been waiting for had finally arrived. At 11:45 A.M. on June 1, 1981, N.J. Transit GP-7 #5905 coupled on to GG1 #4877 and slowly eased her out of the paintshop into the bright sunlight. The sun glistened off the paint, wh
Happy 2nd Year Anniversary to "Our" Place!
Ruth my deAH you are absolutely stunning in that anniversary outfit! <blush> <oh-boy!>
Quick, I need two "jolts" in my morning coffee and something sweet from the Mentor Village Bakery Case. Ahhhhhh, yes a couple of Napoleans should do it. Dontchajustluv the custard inside??? <ummmmm>
Here we are, April the twelfth and the biggest surprise thus far has been the return of my "bookend" and friend, BK 'n Lydia from their mountain retreat in Alberta, Canada! What a special treat to see you both and very, very happy that you could make it in for this day of days!
Cap'n Tom, you outdid yourself with that compilation this morning. Must've taken a bit of time to put that one together. I'm sure the guys appreciate your tireless efforts, I surely do! a Platinum 5-Salute to our Proprietor!
Eric in Phoenix, that was one surprising submission from you with the creative "2"!! Nice touch and something very special to add to the festive atmosphere in this trackside tavern. You'll note that we've made scores of replica "2s" that are suspended from the ceiling, light fixtures and just about any other place we could find. The day of "2s" has arrived as we embark upon the year of "3"!!!
Nice stuff from Da BoyZ and the Urls from Mike are particularly interesting, IF one can get the "moving" ones to move. Must be my 'puter . . .
Really enjoyed the RDC pix from Doug as I know Da Boss did as well! You KNOW how to remain on his "good side," huh??? <grin>
Also just caught your 2nd post with the "Our" Place pix! Really "cool" and one of these days you'll have to let us "in" on the secret!
So, is that first one of Tom and the guys up in Toronto for last year's rendezvous?? A "WAG" on my part, for sure! Second one isn't hard to figure out - Tom should love it as he is rather TALL in comparison with the "locals" on the porch! <grin> Nicely done and most appropriate for the day.
A PENNSY GG1 duirng NYC "week"!! <arrrggghhh> <double arrrggghhh> Wonder where Cap'n Tom hides his <tweeter>
I had asked ALL who frequent this place today to offer up a toast to our continued success and so forth. Thanx BK for doing so! Here's mine: I lift my glass in honor of all who give a rat's patoot and hope that your energy will sustain us through the periods of calm that are sure to come. Cheers to Cap'n Tom, the staff and personalities of "Our" Place!
Shane has continued on with his heart warming narrative of NYC experiences, so I'll chime in with a few more steamers from an era where Classic Trains were indeed special (and yes, Eric, what's not to like is that they aren't running any longer and many cannot be seen up close 'n personal ever again).
New York Central Hudson J3 4-6-4 #5437 passenger near Englewood, Illinois in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central Hudson J3 4-6-4 #5450 passenger at west Chicago in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
NYC Niagara 4-8-4 #6003 passenger near Englewood, Illionis (S. Chicago) in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central Niagara 4-8-4 #6013 passenger near Bellefontaine, Ohio in 1946. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
New York Central Niagara #6024 passenger at Englewood, Illinois in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
NYC Niagara 4-8-4 #6024 on the power stroke at Englewood, Illinois in 1948. (foto credit: Fred C. Stoes/www.yesteryeardepot.com)
Ruth, drinks on the Manager! Boris, ring the ding!
Good morning Ruth. I shall take a number three and partake of a coffee with a splash to start out this cold grey morning ( at least where I am )What to say but a large toast to the Captain and his unwavering support of "Our Place" truly a safe haven in the storms of the either !
A second toast to all the patrons that continue to support the efforts of this place. Tom, Lars, BK, Pete , Eric , Doug, Mike , & young James and Dave in his far flung outpost,and of coarse Pete and DL our two old world wizzes of the continental railways and their equipment.
A third toast to the girls and the critters and the sundry other charaters that inhabit this place of our minds, and lastly a toast for the missing friends,no matter the reasons of thier leaving they all did leave a lasting impression on this place.
It's indeed nice to see that most of us have already arrived for at least one round already today.We have had our down spots, but the information and the fellowship keeps a flowing, I do hope we can reach through to year three, hey I'm willing to give it the ole collage try
So to some coments on the past 18 hours of matgerial or so.
Tom-A fine rnedition of the ongoing NYC theme as already assumed it leaked into the next couple of days again,and why not it was the railroad was it not great passenegr pics and info sir Nice to see all the menageries and icons of Our Place spit polihed and ready for use and abuse today. By the sounds of teh teutonic caterwalling comming from the kitchen ( drum beating an arias of Wagner) that the girls have a feast of some proportion in store for all of us. Hopefully Pete will be able to control them
You are right I will be old and still invloved somehow with the rail seen when those lines are built. Who knopws mafbe I will retire and take my spade down there and help them build.
CM3- Two more posts of posts, both reads were wonderfull and as always I can see the action in my minds eye and smell the coal smoke in my minds nose ( a Robism for Tom to use as he see's fit )
Mike-Thanks for the pictures and videos,the downloads were worth the time and effort
Eric-Wonderfull to see the training sessions for the X2000 thanks for sharing, indeed one of the plus's of Our Place, where eklse could one find info such as that
Doug-RDC's galore,you trying to get some freebies out this place today. Whats that Boris oh yes the breahfasts are free today and BK and Eric have paid for the first rounds. Guess you get off on a technicallity Doug great pictures at any rate, I know the Boss loves them and so do I.
Lars-great steam shots to continue the NYC theme. I'm not supprised that you've managed to get it spread over three days again,shall we try to beat last times four day theme of the NYCWonderfull second aniversary collage there as well sir thank-you,aren't mac's wunnerfull
Pete-You will love 1326 when and if you get up to see us. It truly is a beautifull car. heather's da grew up in Toronto and when he was 10 his Mom would send him downtown to pay bills ( try that nowaday's) anyway he would take the King car into the core but he would weight for the old cars ( The TR's ) just becuase he liked the way the smelled aand the different ride of them as opposed to thier more modern barn mates the PCC or Witt cars .
BK-Nice to see the two of you in for the celebrations,makes the whole gang complete.I can't top the sentiment of eloquence of your toast and your post. So I shall humbly aggree and raise my glass to your toast and reflect upon it.You truly summed us up and our Host tom's intensions for this place in that one fine post. A salute to yiou as well sir 5x
Well Ruth here's another fifty to be used for rounds, once the power of BK's has worn off.
Aha the morning is still progressing nicley. I note that the manager and "barn weevil" have snuck in again to pay their respects today. more thumbs up for both of you again5x
Doug-I to the GG1 article, what a wonderfull piece. I can rightly imagine the thoughts going throught the minds of the paintres and the restorers of that locomotive. I know how our guys feel when a newly restored car at the musuem takes it's first tentitive steps out onto the museum's mainline.Inspiring stuff
Lars-Both bookeneds in within a half hour of each other, truly old times I should say.I haven't had a Naploean in years that brings back some memories as ell Nice to see a few more NYC steamers grace the place again this morning.Actually it's nice to see the Central and the PRR coextisting on the same page in the form of yours and Doug's fine contributions x5
We'll I'll be back shorlty with a post then I unfortunatly need to head into work, I shall return this evening again however.
So to continue on the fine NYC themed material here's a re-production of the TH&B / NYC ads and scheduales for the Port Maitland Ontario passenger service. Oh and Ruth how's about another round for the road, gotta keep tilla cachinging donchaknow.
enjoy Rob
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