Good morning Tom, and friends! I see we had some nice activity yesterday. A Milwaukee post from da boss, Alaska locomotive pix and a hint of certain "salty" terms that might be compiled by manager Lars, a most welcome stop by Pete, Eric, and CM3, who may be more interested than most in my next series, which starts now!
Delaware & Hudson - April 1947 Railroad Magazine
Today it would be easy for Delaware and Hudson officials to rest on the record of the road's long and successful history. The fourth railroad in the country in point of longevity, D&H is also one of the most prosperous. During 1945 revenue from anthracite was twenty percent of the company's revenue, with bituminous coal returns forming eleven percent of total freight receipts.
Coal not only brings money to the D&H: it saves money, too, as a convenient and inexpensive locomotive fuel. For this reason, Diesel and electric hogs will be a long time ousting the steam engine from the Durable & Husky, although Diesels are already in use as switchers and on the new branch to the valuable mines at Tahawus, where the government ordered them as a precaution against forest fire hazard.
Besides the products of its coal mines the D&H has useful minerals under most of its miles of right-of-way. The lower half of the road from Albany, N.Y., southwest to Wilkes Barre, Pa., lies over a huge geological formation of Devonian shale and sandstone, with carboniferous deposits at the southern end. North from Albany are deposits yielding iron-ore and its by-products" granite, limestone, marble, materials for cement and glass.
Despite this abundance of company-owned freight, there is a bouncy, keen-minded man in Albany named B.D. Anthony and known as Assistant to the General Manager, who thinks overtime about his favorite question: "Where can we get new traffic for the D&H?" The goal is fifty million dollars worth of new industry along the road's lines. Half of that aim is already fulfilled. True, as Anthony will admit, anthracite is still marketed all over the country under Delaware and Hudson, Hudson Coal, and many other dealer names. But the substitution of other forms of power for coal may mean that a revolution is imminent. Water and electric power are cutting into the hard black market, natural gas makes further inroads and the possible uses of the atom are unpredictable. Today's dilemma is the exact reverse of that one faced by the first owners and managers; yet there are points of similarity.
Map of D&H system, showing connections from Wilkes-Barre and Albany to New York City
The Delaware & Hudson story begins over one hundred and twenty-five years ago, when the brothers William and Maurice Wurts went into the wilderness of eastern Pennsylvania to mine and market the hard black diamonds known as stone coal. From their rude log-cabin office, several wagonloads of anthracite traveled over goat-track roads and floated down the Delaware River to the operators of forges and foundries in Philadelphia. Potential customers were used to soft coal and refused to experiment until one man, more open-minded than his competitors, tried the new fuel. He was not impressed until a young blacksmith in his employ constructed a high grate and laid anthracite on a bed of burning bituminous. The longer lasting fire soon proved it was as cheap and much cleaner.
When, finally, orders began to pour into the Pennsylvania office, the problems of transportation became paramount. The Wurts brothers lacked money to buy the necessary boats and river rights. Engaged in continual battles with speculators who obtained control of part of their route in order to levy tribute in the form of exorbitant rates for the use of privately-owned barges, they nevertheless managed to stay in business. A combination of tiny horse-drawn wagons and water routes fed their black gold from the mines near Honesdale, Pa., to New York and Philadelphia. But the real value of their coal properties was not to become evident for many years, at which time they would combine forces with a more powerful Delaware & Hudson Coal Company.
The state of New York granted a charter to this organization with headquarters in New York City in 1823. The date marks the real beginning of the Hudson and Delaware Railroad. Although we must allow for certain name changes such as "canal" and "coal" to "railroad" company, it is accurate to say that the D&H has issued regular reports since 1824.
The main problem and purpose of the company was to supply coal to the seaboard cities, especially New York. To facilitate this aim, the originators' energies and resources for the next fifty years were to be primarily concerned with moving coal rapidly, cheaper and in greater quantities. Eventually they would give some thought to finding new markets for the product. Meanwhile, except for temporary financial recessions, the expanding New World was able to absorb all the hard coal mined while crying for more.
The most practical way to take out coal from the fields was by canal. The Delaware and Hudson Canal Company's waterway to the Hudson River was opened officially on October 16th, 1828, when the managers traveled from Rondout to Honesdale in the Orange Packet, the first vessel, besides the boats accompanying it, to navigate the canal.
Immediately after, anthracite began to move in increasing amounts eastward from Honesdale, Pa., to Rondout on the Hudson. From there the broad, deep river offered direct passage for any ship bound for New York and the Atlantic. The first boats from Honesdale, arrived at Rondout on December 5th, 1823, each of the eleven carrying ten tons of anthracite. The cargo arrived in New York five days later and was sold at around eight dollars per ton. In succeeding years barges carrying cargoes of not more than thirty tons streamed steadily along the 108-mile gash in the earth, then across Rondout on a double-arch-supported aqueduct, or water bridge. Through the shallow of the stone, the coal barges floated across the valley, high above the winding stream; thence across the Neversink and smaller streams inside wooden trunks - a truss bridge with vertical planking enclosing the water-filled sides and bottom and raised on stone piers and abutments - and then across the Delaware in the slack water created by dams.
John B. Jervis, second chief engineer
To feed coal to the boats at the Honesdale terminal, Benjamin Wright, first chief engineer of the company, soon suggested a railroad, whether of single or monorail type is not clear, and the Pennsylvania Legislature authorized its construction. John B. Jervis, who succeeded as chief engineer in 1827, drew up the first detailed plans. He recommended double rails with rolled iron plates such as were in use on the Quincy Granite Railroad. The elevation of Moose Mountain above Carbondale - 858 feet - was such that Mr. Jervis properly considered horse power out of the question. He advised a system of five inclined planes to be ascended by means of rope and chain cables, steampowered by stationary engines. For the three descending gravity planes, he proposed a parachute device of sails connected with gearing to hold the empties to a safe speed of four miles per hour.
Steam locomotives were to be used on the level stretches between planes. This proposal in favor of steam verses horse power was fairly revolutionary: for up to this time, only one railroad in America "had been tested by a winter's cold," to use President Bolton's words, and there was but one ro
Hi Tom
Light breakfast for me please.
Just a quick message to say thanks for your e-mail which I got OK Saturday - driving me a crazy is that I seem to be unable to respond by e-mail ! - I think this is some problem with my service provider so I'm working on checking this out - but of course it means I've not been able to a) give you the courtesy of a reply and b) reveal my actual e-mail address - which is what I intended to do. Nothing's simple is it!
All the best to all in
DL
Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
G'day Gents!
Tuesday has a way of showing up just when one thought Monday would never end!
Time to begin a new day with a cuppa Joe, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery ‘n a <light> or <traditional> breakfast ordered from our Menu Board.
A rather strange day in that we experienced somewhat of a "brown out" with the Posts. However, for the stalwarts who did show up, many THANX!
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):
CM3 at 10:23 AM yesterday: Dog food scare ‘round here as well. Fortunately for us, Juneau has been "on" the IAMS canned dog food which is NOT of the "wet" variety under suspicion. <phew> Hope your friends remain healthy and unaffected.
What could be more appropriate for opening day of the baseball season than a "report" from our Intrepid Reporter As you know, tryouts for this year's iteration of the "Our" Place Nine have gone - errrrrrrr, ummmmmm, well. Well in that we've had to go there in order to "fish out" some reliability to keep us competitive. ‘twas a good thing that the catapult was saved (from the Darts Challenge), for it has certainly "honed" the guys when in the batters box! <uh oh> High ‘n Tight - yes, that pretty much sums up Boris . . . well done, and we look forward to your "report"!
Many THANX for the RR related elaborations on the current flicks over at the Emporium! Curious minds should've certainly wanted to know!
As always, much appreciation for the round, quarters ‘n visit!
Lars at 11 AM yesterday: Love those Alaska RR bits o' art! Nicely done, fer sure, fer sure!
California Dreamin' again, eh Too bad about the train, however, totally understandable in today's scheme of U.S. passenger railroading. The costs are exhorbitant for the "full" bedroom accommodations and even though meals are provided, it does seem that something has "slipped" when it comes to the dining car. Noted that in my last couple of trips too. Do you recall when the Sightseer Lounge was pretty much a place for the bedroom passengers to gather?? Now it seems that many people "camp out" in ‘em, thereby making it a bit difficult for others to have a chance at enjoying the experience. If the train staff doesn't give a Rat's Patoot, then who will Yeah, I understand . . .
We looked into a "short" get away for early June - Chicago to Portland, OR via the Empire Builder (bedroom of course) then fly back after a couple of days out there. The overall costs would gag a healthy maggot, so that ain't gonna happen. Juneau is most pleased with our decision! <grin>
Not to worry regarding the Tuesday Theme for the Day - with turnouts lately being rather sparse, no point in putting anyone through the "drill" of preparation. We had a fine turnout for last week - that will have to hold us for awhile.
And that Milwaukee Road piece is the last from me for awhile - it just happened to fall into the numbered sequence for those Passenger Train Nostalgia ads . . .
Pete at 8:55 PM yesterday: So, the wayward Assistant Chandler has returned! All was well in your absence, other than your presence was noticeably missed . . . as you can tell, the place is still standing, but there were times when I wondered.
Can't seem to stay away from KCity's Union Station, eh
Good to know you sampled the Irish brew, even if it wasn't here at the bar. Figured the Harvey House would come up with an appropriate dish for St. Pat's Day.
Should one more week pass without trolleyboy Rob appearing, YOU "fleet up" to Bar Chandler! That's life in the fast lane . . .
Eric at midnight! Hit it right on the button - that definitely gets you a "free adult beverage" next time in!
Someone used the Penthouse Suite???? Someone used the Penthouse Suite????
Would have to concur with your assessment of the continuing Amtrak woes. Politics ‘n politicians have EVERYTHING to do with the situation. As I've said ad nauseam ‘round here, our Congress has been so slack in coming up with a 21st Century Transportation Plan - AND funding - that includes passenger rail in a modern world, we are simply stuck with same-o, same-o, when it comes to Amtrak and railroading of decades long past. Really a disgrace.
Really liked that Silverton shot - I don't recall viewing it previously.
Riding our light rail system here in St. Louis (MetroLink) will also require a permit if one wishes to take Pix. I'll arrange take care of the details for all attending the Rendezvous. Does seem a bit of an "over kill," but then consider the times we live in. ‘nuf said. <groan>
Best to go easy on Wolfman Pete ‘n the terminology. If you consider what some Brits call cigarettes, then it's rather easy to understand calling a passenger car (coach) a trolley! Or a truck a lorry, or a . . .
Doug at 5:28 AM today: D&H, alwa
G'day!
The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #8
A form of this was initially Posted on Page 116 of the original Thread
Here's another Passenger RR Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:
Denver & Rio Grande Western (D&RGW)
Caveat: The information provided is NOT all inclusive and is reflective only of the periods mentioned.
Headquarters: Denver, CO
Mileage:
1950: 2,413
1995: 2,238 including trackage rights routes
Rolling stock as of 1963: Freight cars - 12,610 Passenger cars - 96
Principal lines in 1950:
Denver-Bond, CO-Salt Lake City, UT
Denver-Pueblo-Dotsero, CO
Pueblo-Trinidad, CO
Walsenburg-Alamosa, CO
Alamosa-Durango, CO
Salida-Gunnison, CO
Mears Junction-Alamosa
Alamosa-Creede, CO
Bond-Craig, CO
Grand Junction-Ouray, CO
Thistle-Marysvale, UT
Salt Lake City-Ogden, UT
Passenger trains of note:
California Zephyr (Chicago-Oakland, joint w/Burlington & Western Pacific)
Colorado Eagle (St. Louis-Pueblo-Denver, joint w/MoPac)
Exposition Flyer (Chicago-Oakland, joint w/Burlington & WP, replaced by California Zephyr in 1949)
Mountaineer (Denver-Montrose, CO, via Moffat Tunnel)
Panoramic (Denver-Ogden)
Prospector (Denver-Salt Lake City)
Rio Grande Zephyr (Denver-Ogden [later cut back to Salt Lake City], replaced California Zephyr 1970-83)
Royal Gorge (Denver-Pueblo-Ogden)
San Juan (Alamosa-Durango, CO)
The Silverton (Durango-Silverton, CO)
The Yampa Valley (Denver-Craig)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
DRGW #1145 Silver Sky (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)
Copyright: Corel Corp.
Enjoy!
Tom
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present, coffee, please; round for the house, and $ for the jukebox.
Fog, clouds, and showers in the coalfields this morning. However, it is supposed to clear up a bit later. Boris, go out and fire up the rotary - we might need it.
Thanks to all for asking; the K9 Korps is doing o.k. The yellow monster gets Pedigree dry food, and the smaller one was getting Iams, but not in the number range of the affected product. We have, however, switched him over to Pedigree canned. And so it goes. The yard is butt deep in mud which they both really enjoy because they can track it all over the kitchen.
Lars stopped by with wide-ranging comments. I believe we each can down three fingers of the good stuff in remembrance of things past regarding name trains. All I can say is it's a !@#$ of a situation when you can't ride a sleeper between Boston and Washington; can't get a through sleeper between Boston and Chicago for !@#$ sake. We won't even discuss our tri weekly service through southern WV; all of this at fares that are larger than the GNP of many nations. Unhand me Boris, you mad prowler of the Pampas - I'm done fussing for now.
Pete stopped by. Boeings have been running on the Riverside line in Boston. You can go to the Boston Globe website and hunt around for information - they have been running stories on the Boeing's last days for awhile.
Eric - Never say never re the Boeings. The MBTA permit policy has been in place for a long time. Durango picture is a good one - thanks for sharing.
Barndad - The Delaware and Hudson article is a good one. John B. Jervis was a most interesting figure in railroad history. The picture of Horatio Allen made him look like a cross between Horace Greeley and Mr. Pickwick (yikes!) I was surprised that they didn't have a picture of Leonor Loree. The lines about coal were interesting as well, since the peak of mining in the area served by the D&H was probably two decades before the article was written. Their thinking at the time reflected what other coal roads such as the C&O and the N&W said about their motive power. Ultimately ‘twas labor costs that killed the steam engine, even on the roads that served coal mines. The D&H had diesel power beginning in 1944 when they bought Alco S2s. Alco RS2s and RS3s, which basically killed steam on the D&H, were all purchased between 1946 and 1953.
DL's going bananas with his e-mail. Hang in there
OSP included some lovely pictures with his D&RG material today. There is an 11 car Zephyr set available in N scale.
Last but not least, the new Railroad History arrived in the mail today. Cover is a color shot of a 20-car Canadian in Canadian Pacific livery (as God intended). Fully half of the magazine is devoted to Canadian passenger service. Did I forget to say that the issue came with an insert of CP and CN system maps c. 1956? In addition, there is a piece on the B&O's Mt. Clare shops. Anyway, well worth getting.
This is a good one:
A man walked into a café, went to the bar and ordered a beer.
The bartender said, "Certainly, sir - that'll be one cent."
"Once cent?" the man thought.
He glanced at the menu and asked, "How much for a nice, juicy steak and a bottle of wine?"
"A nickel," the barman replied.
"A nickel?" exclaimed the man. "Where's the guy who owns this place?"
The bartender replied, "Upstairs with my wife."
The man asked, "What's he doing upstairs with your wife?"
The bartender replied, "The same thing I'm doing to his business down here."
Work safe
Hello Tom - good thinking - I've sent you a message from the forum. This is just to let you know that in case it does not show your end - text of message has my communication details as per your idea.
While I'm here I'll have a super latte extra cappuchino pint of bitter.
Regards
Ahoy Cap'n Tom ‘n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth my deAH, ‘tis time for a Larsman Special! A frosty mug of Keiths and a hero sandwich of ham, Swiss, mustAHd ‘n buttAH with two large pickles from the barrel. Time also for a saucer of brine for Tex (Armadillo), a tray of seeds for Awk (Parrot), bucket of ice cubes for Frostbite (Penguin) and a LARGE jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris (Cyclops). <grin> Ah yes, a round for the house and the change is yours, you sweet, sweet thing!
Morning support from Eric, Doug, Shane ‘n DL - which is all GOOD! Too bad we can't figure out a way to get some "slots" assigned to the guys in order to keep the long interludes of silence from occurring. Maybe one day, huh Oh yes, "late night Pete" did plug a hole that needed it!
Good news about the "doggies" from Tom 'n Shane!
The Penthouse Suite has been "restored" to normal condition. Must've been quite a weekend . . . .
Really haven't much to add to what's been said. Platitudes to all and special mention to DL for trying to get the e-mail situation to unfold. It will! Looking forward to your resumption of "business" from the UK!
The way things are shaping up ‘round here, I expect we're really gonna be hard hit in spring ‘n summer when it comes to keeping this joint afloat. Vacations, work, ‘n low numbers all spell for a continuation of the drought. I recall a couple of guys alluding to a thought that "one guy shouldn't make that much of a difference," HA! Just look around, and tell me that again!
So, what to offer for this day?? The D&H material from Doug is a good read and that California Zephyr ‘n Denver & Rio Grande ad was equally enjoyable from Tom!
Let me provide just a bit of enhancement to these railroads:
D&H Baldwin RF16 #1216 (photo credit: Jay Winn)
DRGW #1105 Silver Bronco (1980) (from: www.trainweb.org)
Ruth, another frosty mug of Keiths, then I gotta skedaddle . . .
Until the next time!
Lars
Hi Tom and all.
Hopefully a bit more like my usual time, so a pint of Bathams Mild on this wet Mid-Mo afternoon please RUTH.
ERIC Looking forward to my 'grand prize' if I get past the technicality and survive the other prize of Tom's weekend at the cabin in the Can-Am gorge.
Do you know if the EL-1 gets many outings these days, I suppose it works a few specials.
Thanks for the photo of Durango. After we had booked into a nearby hotel the night before our trip on the line we walked to the station and the train was just arriving, it was my first sight of live American steam.
DOUG I have kept the your Railroad Lingo posts they we come in very handy for me.
Another great series with the D&H, looking forward to the next installment when the first steam loco arrives.
CM3 Many thanks for pointing me to the Boston Globe web-site. There was a great video of the next to last day of the Boeings. I was lucky enough to have a ride on these cars when in Boston a couple of years ago from the Green Line station near the North station. The cars made a big impression on me.
Enjoyed the joke.
DL Hope you can get the E-Mail sorted soon and you can enjoy some more of the ales at the Our Place bar.
LARS No wonder the Our Place Mascots think so much of you with the treats you give them it is not a bad idea to get on the good side of BORIS.
I agree with what you say about missing one guy,when one of the regulars are away for a lenght of time he certainly is missed.
Thanks for the pics . That D&H color scheme is one of the very best.
TOM Luckily our pooch has Pedigree food but it is a worrying time for pets, really,really glad Juneau and CM3's K9 Corps are OK.
Yes I do enjoy going to the Union Station in Kansas City.There always seems to be a lot of railroad activity passing. This saturday there was a train with 7 locos on the front and 2 more locos on the back, although the only companies I saw this time was UP and BNSF.The Irish Bar in the station is now open.
Thanks for the D&RGW Fallen Flag Encore. It seems the railroad did not loose too much track in the years between 1950 and 1995. The Silver Sky is an impressive car.
I wonder what sized 'Dipper' LARS will give me if I become full time chandeller. I hope ROB can come back and give me some more training though.
Yes the 'common' langauge causes problems again. I think the electric street cars were always called Trams in the UK., although there were vehicles like a bus without rails that were powered by overhead electric lines these were called Trolley-Buses.
A bit of trivia but trolleys were known to us as a thing we built as kids with old pram wheels and wood, these had a steerable front axle. You could sit at the back and steer with your feet or ride lying on it headfirst steering with your arms, very painful when you trapped your hand between the steering board and the body of the trolley A steepish hill and a sidewalk was the usual place to run them with a pal to help propel it, up the hill, by sitting at the back facing outward and pushing with the feet, also this was the main brake but often the so called 'friend' would abandon ship and leave you to your fate, with you desparatly putting your foot on the tire in a vain attempt to stop.Mechanical failures were very common too. You dont see them anymore probably the kids today have got more sense than we had.
Well RUTH after my ramblings I had better get a round in .
Pete.
Good evening Leon and fellow Ourplacians. I'll have a bottomless draught, buy a round for the house and toss a roll of Michigan quarters in the coal scuttle for Herr Wurlitzer. Nifty contributions this day from our captain (D&RGW pix!) and surely enjoyed CM3 insights on coal carriers. Haven't seen the name "Leonor Loree" in my article yet, but haven't really read it through anyway! I read as I type. Leave it to manger Lars to bedazzle Ruth, and provide a post that tied Tom and mine together. Glad you found the railroad lingo useful Pete. Let's hope DL gets his computer ailments healed, so we can hear from him.
I'll be posting the next installment of the D&H series tonight, as my bride starts work later tomorrow, and I ain't allowed to fire up the computer on such mornings. I do have a "fix" on the way for the future, however. I might have my notebook (laptop) as soon as tomorrow, and soon be able to type any place in the house anytime I please. This should greatly improve my ability to post more material, more often. But for now, I'll just have to check-in tomorrow night. Here's part II of the D&H series:
The Stourbridge Lion, first common-carrier locomotive ever operated in the Western hemisphere. Note "walking beam" described as "pumping up and down like a hurrying grasshopper."
The four locomotives he (Horatio Allen) shipped to the company were named the America, the Delaware, the Hudson and the Stourbridge Lion, the latter after the red lion which decorated the front of her boiler. Some historians claim that the name Fox may have been applied to one of the first three, but the controversy is not important as their performance failed to justify the early champions of steam power. The America disappears from historical records after starting its trip to Honesdale up the Hudson on the steamer Congress, and its career between that date, July 16, 1829, and the discovery of one of its cylinders in the Smithsonian Institute in 1923 is a mystery. The Delaware and the Hudson never got any further on their journey than Rondout, where they were stored until the woodwork rotted away, their boilers having been taken for other uses. They were later burned in the White storehouse fire.
History's hero, the Stourbridge Lion, was the only one of the four to arrive safely at Honesdale. On August 5th, 1829, Jervis wrote the glad news to President Bolton: "We have the Lion on the Rail Road and shall put steam on her tomorrow other next day."
Philip Hone, first D&H president
Three days later, alone and unaided, Horatio Allen drove the Stourbridge Lion on the first run of a commercial locomotive in America. The road was built of six-by-twelve hemlock stringers, twenty or thirty feet in length, held together by cross ties set at intervals of ten and fifteen feet and supported on posts set in broken stone or stone piers. Wrought iron straps, held by countersunk screws and tongued to fit each other like tin-plate rail, provided the running surface of the rails. The line ran parallel with the canal for six hundred feet, then crossed the Lackawaxen on a trestle thirty feet high and curving for the length of a quarter-mile at a 750-foot radius, after which it straightened to continue on into the forest.
Allen's emotions as he undertook this pioneer run were mixed. In his own words:
"When I placed my hand on the throttle valve handle I was undecided whether I should move slowly or with a fair degree of speed, but holding that the road would prove safe, and preferring, if we did go down, to go handsomely, and without evidence of timidity, I started with considerable velocity, passed the curves over the creek safely and was soon out of hearing ..."
The onlookers had predicted either that the fragile stretch of roadway would collapse under the engine's weight or, else, if it reached the curve, the wheels would not follow the track. In some measure, they were tight; although the three-mile run into the woods of Pennsylvania near the site of Seeleyville was made without damage to the engine or driver, it was apparent that the hemlock stringers were too soft to bear the locomotive's weight on future runs. In an effort to overcome the danger, strips of hardwood were spiked to the stringers; and the rolled iron bars, in turn, spiked to hardwood strips. On September 9th the Stourbridge Lion, with Mr Allen again at the throttle, made its second test run over the line. The track still proved unstable, and the Lion was stored at Honesdale.
When winter came on, the brave little engine was covered with a rough housing of boards. This rude protection remained the only notice taken of it until 1849, when it was taken to Carbondale and its boiler and other parts put to use in the company shop. In 1889, the form of Lindsay and Early, foundry men at Carbondale, donated the little locomotive, which they had owned for several years, to the Smithsonian Institute in Washington.
Meanwhile, with the failure of the second test run, the company abandoned the hope of using locomotives between Carbondale and Honesdale for several years to come. Horse power moved the first load of anthracite which passed over the railroad on October 9th, 1829. A year later, 43,000 tons had been shipped to market. During the succeeding decade, Lackawanna coal gradually won the market as the cheapest and most efficient type of hard coal. In 1858, the little road was extended seven miles further down the valley of the Lackawanna to reach additional mines.
Meeting of steam and gravity in 1860's at Oliphant, Pa., southern terminus of the gravity road; scene shows an early breaker, coal cars and locomotive.
The building of the Albany & Susquehanna Railroad in the same year meant outlets to north and east.
Henceforth, the future of the Delaware & Hudson was to be tied in with that of numerous other roads. At the time when the first sixteen miles of D&H track was laid, rail projects were springing up everywhere.
Intent trainman guides gravity passenger to foot of Plane Number 18. Time, early eighties; place, Waymouth, Pa.
The history of the Saratoga & Schenectady, incorporated in 1831 and later to become part of the D&H, is particularly interesting. It was the first railroad to act chiefly as a carrier of passengers. Construction began October 25, 1831, with John B. Jervis as engineer. According to the Commercial Advertiser of that date, "liberal wages would be paid five hundred hands." The road was opened July 12, 1832, although the line still lacked completion. The passengers made the middle half-mile of their trip by post coach.
Open "Baldwin" coaches of this type replaced crude coal cars in which first passengers traveled
The first bogie engines - locomotives with the frame of the forward wheels connected to a crosspiece by a king bolt only - were used on the S&S. Due to their ability to turn freely on curves, they were to prove a great advantage to American railroading. The most famous of the early bogies
Good morning, Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Leon, I'll have a Sugar Cured Ham Sandwich! Yeah, and fries.
Another day gone and som more stuff to read and learn. Especially the history of Delaware & Hudson!
Doug – Very interesting article about Delaware & Hudson!Steam locos on the level stretches only! I wonder what happened to America? Did the steamer sink and parts of the locomotive later recovered? I am looking forward to more of this story!Pilot! I know how to pile chopped wood but the Air Force let me go anyway. DL – Hope your email trouble will get solved! Don’t give up!Tom – Thank you for the “adult beverage”! You know, I actually tried to make it before midnight, but did not manage to finish my post in time. Trolley or coach? I must admit it could easily be either one just by looking at the picture. I agree about some British English, like lorry for truck!? Thanks for the D & RGW info! Denver & Rio Grande Western sounds kind of exotic in my ears for whatever reason. Nice pictures of the Silver Sky! Looks like Silver Horizon that ison display at Maricopa Station. I posted that picture in January, but here it is again.
CM3 – I don’t know yet if I can make it to Boston this spring. I have to fly United somewhere before the end of May in order to keep my miles I have earned in their frequent flyer program. Smart bartender at that café! Lars – Thanks for the round! I am glad to hear that the Penthouse Suite has been restored to normal condition again. But I don’t know what is considered normal condition. Nice pictures. Baldwin diesels look kind of strange to me though. Pete – The Jury is still discussing your Grand Parize. I’ll see what i can do. There are two EL-1 preserved. At least one of them is used on special occasions every year. EL-1 were built in 1922 and the last one was retired in 1976. I have som video of the steam trains at Durango.
Eric
Wednesday's Witticism
For some men it was too late to get wise the day they were born.
Mid-week in mid-continent USA once again. Okay, belly up to the bar boyz and start off your day with a hot mugga Joe, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery, and if that's not quite enough for ya, check out the <light> or <traditional> breakfasts from our Menu Board.
CM3 at 9:20 AM yesterday: Good news regarding the pooch brigade!
I'll have to FIND a copy of that RR History mag - CP passenger, presume in maroon & grey livery with the beaver shields! Awwwwwwwwwright! Definitely will get it - thanx for the "heads up." Classic Trains ran a 50th Anniversary edition for that run, but really messed up the centerfold by using the CPs "action red" scheme rather than the original maroon & grey. They "had it right" by featuring the train at Morant's Curve, but surely goofed (in my not-so-humble-opinion) when it came to the livery.
I share your pain when it comes to the "trade offs" made in order to keep a semblance of passenger ‘service' up ‘n running under the banner of Amtrak. Seems totally incongruous to me that one cannot get a bedroom car from WashDC to Boston, or a thru bedroom from Boston to Chicago. Insanity rules!
Thanx for the round, quarters and fine Post! Also, got a kick out of the joke!
DL at 9:35 AM yesterday: Email exchange continues!
Lars at 1:36 PM yesterday: Nice to be able to count on you as a "regular" ‘round this place. Even when away (Florida ‘n other places) you've managed to keep pace. Shows me that this bar of ours means more to you than simply a secondary or tertiary "thing" to do.
Anytime I see the D&H livery it "works" for me! Nice looking loco and perhaps the finest paint scheme of all the Classics! The D&RGW passenger trains were really impressive and you are a lucky guy to have made that trip from Chicago to the Bay area when it was REALLY the California Zephyr and not the "knock off" version we have today.
Pete at 4:36 PM yesterday: Good news regarding the health of your doggie, too!
Sounds like you "hit it" quite well in KCity's Union Station with the train displays, et al. I concur, they do a fine job out there to attract the public with interesting displays and things to do. One of our favorite places to visit as well . . ..
The talk of Silverton rekindles some thought about traveling in that direction for some "narrow gauging." Would love to see it, but would prefer the "off season" - detest crowds and all they bring. Anyway, I've seen enough Pix to recognize the scenery is worth the costs in bucks ‘n time. I'm convinced.
Those contraptions you "kids" called trolleys sound quite a bit like the beginnings of what Americans know as the "soap box" derby car. I'm sure there was another name for the home made "car," and I too rode ‘em down hills only to find out that the stop was rather SUDDEN! <grin>
While out at Can-Am Gorge, be sure to "pack" some self-defense. There are some rather "strange things" inhabiting those woods. <ooooooooh> The cabin is sturdy, the windows and door need to be shut ‘n locked tight when it's time to turn in . . . Boris ‘n Leon enjoy sleeping outside, as there isn't a creature known to mankind stupid enough to tangle with those two!
That train you described was either hauling some super heavy material, or many of those locos were dead headed . . . my guess.
I wouldn't be holding high hopes for a larger "dipper" - for ‘round here, the more responsibility one gets, the less one takes out of the tub. Just the way it works!
Good to see ya at the PM "slot"!
Doug at 8:45 PM yesterday: Back again and this time with Part Deux of the D&H "stuff"!
Wireless ‘n laptops go together - I'd be "lost" without either . . .
Always appreciate the barn weevil, any time you have the time!
Many thanx for the Michigan quarters ‘n round!
Eric at 1:40 AM today: Methinks our Resident Desert Swede is also a "night owl" in disguise! The hours you keep make ME sleepy.
There's a great lyric from "My Fair Lady" that Pete ‘n perhaps DL will get a chuckle at, "Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?" <grin> But ya know, it's those differences that make for the attraction and lead to the ties that bind (or something like that!)
IF I won a lottery (have to purchase a ticket first, I hear <grin>) I'd buy an observation dome car - like the one you Posted. Love ‘em, love ‘em, love ‘em. Then I'd make arrangements to travel throughout the U.S. ‘n Canada, hitched to the rear of trains heading to places I'd like to visit.
Thanx for stopping by.
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.
G'day All!
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #27
Initially Posted on Page 169 of the original Thread
Here's something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this advertisement out (from The Official Guide of the Railways - 1956)
Something new for veteran travelers
THROUGH SEPT. 29th
NEW YORK CENTRAL RAILROAD
For a limited time only
AEROTRAIN CLEVELAND-CHICAGO
This much-talked about, lightweight train offers a new experience in travel - provides fast, conveniently scheduled coach service between Cleveland and Chicago . . . with many attractive New York Central features.
* Hostess service
* Seat service for light meals from a rolling buffet
* Separate bar car
* Air cooled
* Reclining contour seats
(Standard Time)
Train #201 - Lv. Cleveland 6:35 AM - Ar. Chicago 12:15 PM
Train #200 - Lv. Chicago 4:00 Pm - Ar. Cleveland 10:45 PM
Also serving 12 cities in between
Check out this URL:
http://www.carofthecentury.com/the_aerotrain.htm
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house, and $ for the jukebox. Gas went up another five cents yesterday - it's now $2.70. Weather here is SE winds 20-25; broken clouds - forecast is "U Pick ‘em" as every TV station and the weather Channel had something different. West Virginia continues forward in the NIT. How many out there remember when NIT was the big tournament and NCAA the lesser? Oh well...
Barndad sent some more D&H material. Loree will probably appear in the next part of the article you have been forwarding. Then you can read all about the monstrous 2-8-0s on the D&H and some of their high pressure steam experiments - fascinating stuff.
Lars sent along a picture of the D&H Baldwin Sharks. These beasts were originally New York Central, later Monongahela, and then D&H. Then they went to the E&LS. They are still with us but are well and truly sequestered in Michigan.
Pete - Glad you found the Globe site to be o.k. and working.
I mentioned yesterday that D&H was already dieselizing when that article appeared. Herewith some information on their Alco S2s which were purchased between 1944 and 1949. These locomotives were numbered D&H 3000-3032. 3000-3001 came in 1944; 3002-3011 in 1945; 3012-3016 in 1047; 3017-3026 in 1948, and 3027-3032 in 1949. 3000-3017 were mu equipped.
Many of these stayed on the D&H until the 1960s. Some were scrapped and others sold to a variety of railroads including the Long Island Rail Road, Buffalo Creek, So. Buffalo, Albany Port RR, Erie, Alpha Portland Cement, Terminal Alabama State Docks, Green Mountain, Kentucky and Tennessee, and NYC.
3021 and 3031 had probably the most interesting stories.
D&H 3021 was sold to Manufacturers Ry. Equipment Co. and then resold to Upper Merion and Plymouth in 1966 where it was renumbered UM&P 3021. Five-six years later it was resold to G.R. Silcott and then to GE. Upper Merion and Plymouth was based out of Conshohocken, PA. It was a 16.6 mile long short line boasting, in 1969, 9 diesel locomotives and 253 coal cars. They got more cars later and I remember seeing UM&P cars frequently on C&O coal trains.
3031 was sold to the New York Central who in turn sold what was left ("parts") to GE. This was then converted to Monongahela slug 177.
So look around in your slide and photo collections - you may have some D&H stuff in there w/o even knowing where it came from.
Note to OSP - Let me know if you can't find RR History; I can make cys. of articles for you. Thanks for the NYC ad (Aerotrain - yikes!).
Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth my deAH, you are lookin' mighty fine as always!
A mugga Joe with one of those "BK splashes" and I'll head over to the bakery case to see what appeals to me.
Got a full plate of things to take care of, but figured I better check things here B4 the noon hour, as I know mid-week brings in the gang from the lumber yard down the road. Should be a busy sandwich day for the kitchen staff.
Appears as if our "usual suspects" have been keeping their oars in the water. Way to go, Pete, Eric, Doug 'n CM3. Sounds like the barn weevil is planning on a return from his "announced' cut back some weeks ago. That's good news! Just what we need, more jokes! <ugh> By the way, I got a kick out of Shane's story from yesterday.
Hey Eric, if you're planning that Acela trip to Boston, lemme know if you'll be in New York City and perhaps we can meet. Of course, you mentioned May and that month is really full for me - you too, huh? Rendezvous or bust!!
So, I see we're back to the Aerotrain, huh Yeah, I know you're just providing these railroad ads in the sequence they fall into. Always look good and surely keeps the topics changing, which ain't all so bad.
They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so here's a little something on the Aerotrain from Da Boss back on Oct 10, 2006 on page 409 of the "old" thread . . .
Now arriving on track #2RR Theme for the Day - Number Five Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds and images from other sources. Aerotrain (EMD) Rock Island Aerotrain at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation The Aerotrain makes its debut in 1955.The Aerotrain is a streamlined trainset introduced by General Motors Electro-Motive Division in the mid-1950s. Like all of GM's great body designs of this mid-century era, this futuristic train was first brought to life in Harley Earl's GM Styling Section. It utilized the experimental EMD LWT12 locomotive (essentially an EMD SW1200 switcher engine geared for high-speed passenger service and wrapped in an aerodynamic shell), coupled to a set of modified General Motors 40-seat intercity bus coach bodies. The cars each rode on two axles with an airbag suspension system, which was intended to give a smooth ride but had the opposite effect.History GM's Aerotrain, in service as the City of Las Vegas, makes a station stop on its way to Los Angeles in 1957.The two Aerotrain demonstrator sets logged over 600,000 miles and saw service on the following railroads:the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway; the New York Central Railroad; the Pennsylvania Railroad; and the Union Pacific Railroad. In 1956 Aerotrain No. 2 was leased as a demonstrator to the New York Central, and operated between Cleveland and Chicago. In the summer of 1957 it was operated by the Union Pacific as the City of Las Vegas, running between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. The train eventually found itself in Chicago commuter service on the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad.GM's "lightweight with a heavyweight future" was introduced at a time when U.S. passenger train revenues were steadily declining due to competition from airlines and private automobile travel. Although it featured an eye-catching, streamlined design, the Aerotrain failed to capture the imagination of the American public. The cars, based on GM bus designs and using an air cushioning system, were rough riding and not very comfortable for the passengers. The design of the locomotive section rendered even routine maintenance extremely difficult and time-consuming. The locomotive unit was underpowered. Eventually, both trainsets were retired after only a decade's use in 1966. Today, Aerotrain No. 1 is on permanent display at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis, Missouri, while No. 2 resides at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin.Disneyland operated a scale version of the Aerotrain, known as the Viewliner, from 1957 to 1959 (see below). Since pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:20 PM Hi Tom and all.A pint of Holden's Golden Glow for this rather windy afternoon please RUTH. ERIC The Grand Prize sounds more interesting by the minute. I am still trying to find out about the origin of the 5ft 3 inch gauge in Ireland.Although the first railway in Ireland the Dublin to Kingstown( now known as Dun Laoghaire), the first section was opened in December 1834, was built to the 4 ft 8 1/2 inch gauge. It was coverted to the Irish 'Standard Gauge' of 5 ft 3inch in 1857I have found out that there was a 5ft 3 inch gauge electric tramway to the north of Dublin. It was built by the Great Northern Railway(Ireland), was 5 1/2 miles long and gave access to the Hill of Howth. It connected with the GNR(I) Howth line to Dublin. It opened in 1901. The electrified Dublin Area Rapid Transit (DART) still runs down the branch to Howth although the tramway closed in 1959. Here is a link wth some pics of the Tramway( there could not have been many 5 ft 3 inch gauge tramways about I would have thought)http://www.trolleybus.net/hoh.htmI will keep looking but once I get my nose in the 1950s Raiway Magazines it is quiet a while before I surface again, although during that period a lot of the Irish Narrow gauge lines were closing.DOUG Many thanks for part 2 on the D&H. It seems they were unfortunate with the steam locos they brought over. It was good to read about Stourbridge Lion, I really must get to the Smithsonian to see her. I wonder who built the other 3 locos, I must admit I had not heard of them before.It was remarkable how the steam locomotive and the rails improved in the short period after 1829.Although the Baldwin Cars must have been cold to travel in they sure were an improvement on the coal cars, they seem to have been fairly long lived.Great series.CM3 I sent to link on the Globe to a native of Boston who nows lives on the West Coast and he remembered the Boeings well.Enjoyed reading about the D&H Alco S2s and the lines they went work on when their D&H careers were over. Many thanks TOM and LARS for the great Aerotrain posts and links. It was a Classic design and deserved more than a decade in service,it makes one wonder how much of the new features on the Aerotrain was included in later designs.I think the 50s must have been the peak for the advertising industry as well, with some fantastic artwork which I don't think has been equalled since. A pic of the No 2 Aerotrain at the National Railroad Museum at Green Bay WI.Yes TOM the Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec are really great lines with wonderful scenery. I have a guide book on the Cumbres line somewhere.It is good to know that had the Soap Box cars over here as well, Our Place is great for bringing back half forgotten memories.Wot not proper English, "Gawd luv a duck", Eliza Doolittle. Well LEON I see you behind the bar now, we will have to set a date when BORIS and you can do the bodyguard duties at the Can-Am Gorge cabin, meanwhile I'll have another Holden's and let me get a round in.Pete. wanswheel Member sinceNovember 2005 4,190 posts Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 7:34 PM Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the houseDoug performs a service in digitizing material that otherwise might never become available on the internet. The Great Gatsby is digitized, Shakespeare too, but magazine articles from decades ago, not so much. Lately I've borrowed from the Time website, tons of railroad stuff there. What I like is that it is history written as current events. The authors didn't know what would happen next.Lion of Nassau Street TIME Magazine Feb. 6, 1933 (www. time.com)In a cupid-encrusted office at No. 32 Nassau St., Manhattan, where Jay Gould used to play financial chess with railroads for queens, hulking old Leonor Fresnel Loree has sat growling into his beard for seven years, trying to thwart a checkmate. Occasionally he would stride over to a railroad map of the U. S. on which a great Loree System was only a dotted line, and stand there cursing softly. Or he would sit slumped behind his desk banging a stack of five-dollar gold pieces from one hand into the other and express himself bitterly to curious interviewers: "Hell, I don't see how those fellows have the face to talk the way they do. But you can say anything if you keep a straight face." "Those fellows" were the Interstate Commerce Commission and the "Big Four" railway systems-New York Central, Baltimore & Ohio, Chesapeake & Ohio, Pennsylvania. They had balked his every effort to form another great Eastern system which would be L. F. Loree's monument. As a railroad man in the gaudy tradition of Vanderbilt, Harriman and Hill, Leonor Loree was known & feared, but Vanderbilt, Harriman and Hill had their big systems and bearded old Mr. Loree had only the smallish Delaware & Hudson and Kansas City Southern. Between them was a great gap. But L. F. Loree was tenacious. Last week railroad men opened their eyes wide at the announcement that Loree's D. & H. had bought 500,000 shares of New York Central-the full 10% of shares outstanding which it could buy without permission from the New York Public Service Commission-and at the report that L. F. Loree's friends had acquired another 500,000 shares. With a 20% command, the 74-year-old fighter was in a fair way to dominate one of the biggest rail systems in the land. During the seven years in which he schemed for prestige L. F. Loree may sometimes have reflected cynically that if he had not been such a good executive he might have become a greater power. By nature, training and beard he belongs in the tradition of the earlier rail tycoons. From Rutgers, at 19, he went into railway engineering on Western roads, quit to carry a tripod with the Army Engineer Corps, quit that to survey a right of way for the Mexican National Railway. In 1883 he went to the Pennsylvania and began to make himself known. He could speedily dig out traffic stalled in snowdrifts; he reconstructed in short order a section of the main line washed out by the Johnstown flood. At 38 he was jumped over a dozen heads to the job of General Manager West of Pittsburgh. When the Pennsylvania bought the dilapidated Baltimore & Ohio, Leonor Loree was sent in as president. He put the B. & O. on its feet in three years and immediately was offered $75,000 a year to be president of the Rock Island. As president of the B. & O. he was getting $25,000. Hardheaded, he wanted the money. Personally ambitious and aggressive, he wanted to do things by himself.He took the Rock Island job and thereby probably kept himself from becoming head of a great system long before this. Within nine months he had split with Rock Island's backers, but under his five-year contract he continued to draw his $75,000, largest in the U. S. He went to the Kansas City Southern, described at the time as "a right of way and two streaks of rust," and promptly put that firmly on its feet. After the panic of 1907 the late great Edward Henry Harriman picked L. F. Loree for president of another tottering road, the Delaware & Hudson. It was an 870-mi. line running from "nowhere [WilkesBarre] to nowhere [Montreal]." President Loree saw that its only paying function would be carrying hard coal. He segregated its coal properties, then its coal-carrying railroad, so that today D. & H. is a holding company. It was the coal properties that eventually enabled L. F. Loree to enter railroading's major league as a real power. Meanwhile he was stuck with two disconnected roads out of the main line of railroad development. The "Big Four" systems grew up and dominated Eastern transportation. The Loree roads, though profitable, were little heard of, though Mr. Loree was heard of: People said he knew more about railroading than any man in the U. S.; his Railroad Freight Transportation is the Blackstone of the subject. In 1925 he began to fight. He was 67, but with no idea of retiring. Backed by Kuhn, Loeb & Co. and the second generation of Harrimans, he began planning a big system in the Southwest, another system to connect his Kansas City Southern and D. & H. In 1927 the Interstate Commerce Commission turned thumbs down on his Southwestern plan, holding that K. C. S. was too small a base for a financial pyramid.He dropped his Southwestern plan and concentrated on the East. In 1927 he mortgaged D. & H. coal properties for $35,000,000 and began to buy into small Eastern key roads, planning to build and piece together a new trunkline to the Midwest. This plan the I. C. C. blocked with its first consolidation plan, parceling out the East among the "Big Four," taking no account of Mr. Loree. He next thrust himself into the picture with a plan for a semicircular belt system connecting New England and Baltimore, to distribute Midwestern products to seaboard. This again stepped on too many toes. He was ordered to sell his interest in the Wabash (now in receivership) and Lehigh Valley, which he did, to the Pennsylvania, at $23,000,000 clear profit. The second I. C. C. consolidation plan (TIME, Aug. 1) as usual left D. & H. in a bad spot, its disposition undetermined. Mr. Loree, with masses of cash on hand, bided his time to begin a frontal attack for his place in the sun. At the 1929 high, 500,000 New York Central shares would have cost D. & H. $125,000,000. At Depression figures Mr. Loree picked them up through J. P. Morgan & Co. for $10.000,000. With the leverage that a 20% interest gives him, he would not have to wait long to fit little D. & H. into New York Central's big system, if that is his intention. The fact that Central owes some $80,000,000 to banks and the R. F. C. did not seem to bother him at all last week. What place he will seek for himself had railroad men guessing. Central's board chairmanship has been vacant since Chauncey Depew died (1928). That he would seek the presidency he promptly denied, saying: "I have the greatest confidence in the present management of Central. During the War I was put in charge of railroad operations in the Eastern region and H. H. Smith, then president of Central, let me have [present President Frederick Ely] Williamson to help me out. We transported 3,500,000 troops in our territory, and it really was Mr. Williamson who did the work. . . . I have the greatest confidence in him." That Leonor Loree had not carried his big maneuvers to their final stage was suggested by one more event of last week: David M. Collins, Mr. Loree's son-in-law, that day retired from his Stock Exchange firm to act as his father-in-law's personal broker in future. Although D. & H. last week passed its dividend for the first time in 53 years, it still has perhaps $25,000,0001n its war chest. Milestones TIME Magazine Sept. 16, 1940 (www. time.com)Died. Leonor Fresnel Loree, 82, retired (1938) head of Delaware & Hudson Railroad; of a heart attack; at his mountain estate near West Orange, N.J. Among sleek, ICC-conscious latterday railroad presidents, massive (300-lb.), buffalo-bearded, uncompromising Leonor Loree seemed a gaudy symbol of the roaring '80s, when he began his long career. In 60 years he headed more roads, introduced more permanent operating innovations, made a higher salary ($100,000) than any surviving railroader. His last spectacular gesture came in 1933, when he bought his way (for $10,000,000) into the No. 1 stockholder's seat of mighty New York Central. Widely read, a quoter of Spengler and Ortega y Gasset. he wrote an authoritative book on railroads, another on anthracite. His motto: "Be audacious." His battlecry: "Management is notoriously underpaid."L. F. Loree in 1909http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/03400/03457v.jpgD&H at Starrucca Viaducthttp://67.15.20.45/images/3/34.jpg.74314.jpghttp://67.15.20.45/images/images2/d/DH_17_Starucca.jpg.64999.jpgD&RGW Alco http://67.15.20.45/images/d/drgw6003.jpg.76991.jpgDART (Dublin Area Rapid Transit)http://i.pbase.com/o4/10/638210/1/59502839.DARTatKilliney.jpgPete, there's some info on broad gauge track in Ireland at these pageshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Ireland#Railway_gaugeshttp://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r051.htmlMike EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:07 AM Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!Another short stop, Leon! I would like that half dry danish a a cup of coffee! Don't forget my free drink, yepp thats it!Too much to do at work right now, so I don't have that much time to spend but I don't want to miss my moments here at the bar! Tom – You are correct, Sir! I am a night owl. Have always been and will always be! I am allergic to mornings. Ahh, thanks for the NYC ad! Aerotrain is a train I have to read more about! As of today the only thing I know is what they look(ed) like. I understand there is one of the train sets in your neighborhood!CM3 – Thanks for the round! Do you know if there is any D&H locomotive preserved today? Lars – If I am going to Boston this spring it will be in April or early May and I will fly all the way. Second half of May is already booked for the Rendezvous! The Acela trip is something else. I am trying to find the people (at least one of them) I know who know that I was promised a free ride years ago. Interesting info on the Aerotrain! I wonder how much modified those bus coach bodies were? I just saw that No. 1 is on display in St. Louis! Perfect! Pete – Thanks for coninuing looking for the origin of the Irish broad gauge railroads! Take your time, no rush! Maybe Mike provided the correct answer below?Mike – Very interesting story about Mr Leonor Loree and the D&H! That man obviously knew how to get things done! 300 lbs! A big guy indeed!Thanks for the links and especially for the one about the origin of the Irish broad gauge railroads! Interesting, just a compromise! Also nice pictures of D&H locomotives! Eric siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:51 AM Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/G'day Gents! Another week is rapidly coming to a conclusion as Thursday is upon us. Draw a mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, order a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board and of course check out The Mentor Village Bakery case. ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative): CM3 at 8:12 AM yesterday: NIT? Why there was little doubt back in the 50s that the Dayton Flyers had a "lock" on the finals pretty much year after year (or so it seemed). Yes, the NIT at the old Madison Square Garden was THE tournament -hands down. I remember!I haven't ventured very far from home this week, but do intend to swing by a place I hope has that RR History magazine. I'll take you up on your offer should I not find an issue - thanx! Quarters, round and visit much appreciated! Lars at 11:02 AM yesterday: Steady ‘n dependable - two words we used to apply to so many at the Saloon by the Siding, now reduced to just a precious few. Really appreciate your continuing willingness to step up and keep things rollin' - sincere thanx! Aerotrain rerun lookin' mighty fine! Pete at 6:20 PM yesterday: Our mid to late afternoon "anchor" arrived and provided us with a typically "Pete" inclusive ‘n informative Post. That RI Aerotrain looks to be in fine condition - nice Pix! Proper English methinks is defined by those who butcher it! Love Eliza Doolittle - thought the stage play was far better than the movie - saw it on Broadway with Rex ‘n Julie many, many years ago. One of our favorites on video . . . Mike at 7:34 PM yesterday: "Weekly" appearance by "silent" Mike - lotsastuff for lotsainterests. Eric at 1:07 AM today: Yes, we'll be viewing the Aerotrain at the Museum of Transportation during the Rendezvous in St. Louis. That Pix reminds me of several locations in the U.S. southwest where the landscape panorama is huge - mountains, mesas, highways and the ever present railroad right of way. Nicely done, Sir! Nothing wrong with being a "night owl," just that THOSE DAZE are behind me. <grin> Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing. This is Fish ‘ Chips Nite! Dinner begins at 5 PM. Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle! Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo coalminer3 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: WV 1,251 posts Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:31 AM Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. As they used to say back in the day; "weather clear, track fast." On to the stack of stuff, plus some additional D&H-related information triggered by Mike's pictures. There's also some New Haven material at the end of the post.Pete stopped by with commentary.Lars also visited with additional Aerotrain material.Mike - The Loree profile was a good one; I knew, if anybody would, you'd find something. Check out the picture of Loree; my police officer neighbor (K9 handler) has a dog whose eye's look just like that. The D&H pictures were great. The one of the Starruca viaduct shows E-L (originally Erie) on top, D&H down below. The Great Model Railroads video/DVD series has a program featuring Harold Wirthwein's most excellent Erie model railroad. It has an excellent rendition of the viaduct as well as a ton of other Erie prototype scenes. Let's look a little closer.D&H 5004 is part of a group of locomotives with a most interesting history. D&H 5000-5011 were all Alco RS11s which came to the D&H in 1961. D&H 5000-5005 were originally supposed to go to the New York Central where they would have been NYC 8009-8014; they were, of course, never delivered to the NYC. The last Alcos purchased by the D&H, (for those who are interested in such things), were D&H 5012-5023. These were RS36s purchased in 1963.I spent a fair amount of time around the D&H, because they were relatively close by when I was still living in the frozen north, and you never knew what was going to appear on their trains. For example, here's two more pieces of D&H material which tie back to the Erie-Lackawanna. This gets a bit crazy, so hang on. In the midst of the Alcos and GEs on their roster, the D&H had three SD45s. These were D&H 801-803. These beasties were originally EMD demonstrators 4354, 4352, and 4353. They were leased to the E-L; some of you may recall seeing them on the E-L; I know I do. In 1976, however, they were returned to the D&H. Last, D&H 751-753 were U33Cs. They were blt. In 1968 (yes, Tex, it was that long ago) and were originally E-L 3301-3303; the E-L leased them to the D&H and they were returned to the E-L in 1976.Eric (and others who share my interest in motive power) the following website is simply one of the best out there. It's called the Diesel Shop (be prepared to spend a lot of time looking at stuff) It's at http://www.thedieselshop.us/MPR.html I don't know if the link will work, so I included the site name as well so you can find it - it's an excellent place to find information (almost as good as my notebooks - LOL).OSP visited with a list of name trains - it's enough to make you weep; I looked through the New Haven section - add two more names in there; the Narragansett and the Owl. Both of these were Boston-New York overnight trains. Many of the names listed in the New Haven section were interline operations; fascinating stuff if you start looking at consists; especially for Pullmans.Work safe siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:15 AM G'day Gents!Don't know why or how, but this Post apparently did show up when it was supposed to be in PREVIEW mode - hmmmmm, CM3 referred to it. Good Gawd Gertie, Gremlins Gotcha! One more time . . . from Page 164 of the original Thread on Nov 16th, 2005.This was Posted over on the original Thread a couple of times, but not here. Time for our "new guys" to check it out . . . Here's a little something you may find of interest. It has been used with permission from: http://www.innvista.com/default.htm with some additions (noted) and minor editing. We'll call this Fallen Flags Extra! While there are some differences between the Fallen Flags that I have Posted for Passenger Trains, there's no reason to do anything other than enjoy the names of these fine passenger trains! Some Name Passenger Trains by Railroad in 1948 This list includes trains from North America only. This gives an idea of the number of passenger trains operating in Canada and the United States in 1948. The name trains have been listed according by railroad that they traveled over. In some cases just the Pullman equipment traveled over these lines. Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe (AT&SF) •1. Antelope •2. California Limited •3. California Special •4. Cavern •5. Centennial State •6. Chicagoan •7. Chief •8. El Capitan •9. El Pasoan •10. Fast Mail Express •11. Golden Gate •12. Grand Canyon •13. Kansas Cityan •14. Oil Flyer •15. Ranger •16. San Diegan •17. Scout •18. Super Chief •19. Texas Chief •20. Tulsan •21. West Texas Express Atlanta and West Point (A&WP) •1. Crescent •2. Piedmont Limited Atlantic Coast Line (ACL) •1. Champion (East Coast) •2. Champion (West Coast) •3. City of Miami •4. Dixie Flagler •5. Dixie Flyer •6. Dixie Limited •7. Everglades •8. Flamingo •9. Georgian •10. Havana Special (East Coast) •11. Havana Special (West Coast) •12. Miamian •13. Palmetto •14. Seminole •15. South Wind •16. Southland •17. Sunchaser Baltimore and Ohio (B&O) •1. Ambassador •2. Capitol Limited •3. Cincinnatian •4. Cleveland Night Express •5. Columbian •6. Diplomat •7. Marylander •8. Metropolitan Special •9. National •10. Royal Blue •11. Shenandoah Bangor & Aroostook (BAR) (added by siberianmo) 1. Aroostock Flyer2. Potatoland Special Boston and Maine (B&M) •1. Alouette •2. Flying Yankee •3. Green Mountain •4. Gull •5. Kennebec •6. Minute Man •7. Monadnoch •8. Montrealer •9. Mount Royal •10. Mountaineer •11. New Englander •12. Penobscot •13. Pine Tree •14. Red Wing •15. State of Maine •16. Washingtonian Canadian National Railways (CNR) •1. Ambassador •2. Continental Limited •3. Gull •4. Inter-City Limited •5. International Limited •6. LaSalle •7. Maple Leaf •8. Maritime Express •9. Montrealer &bull Happy Railroading! Siberianmo CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:53 AM G-day Tom and all present!Ruth- I'm soooo glad to see you again. I haven't been here for a while so I'm going to start off with a coffee and a Turkey sandwich with the works. ThanksOkay I am back and ready for a little conversation. Sorry for my longer absence than usual. I was getting things put and set straight around the homestead and at work.But I'm back to have some fun. I will start off with the first page and work my way back to when I first left off.Tom- Good to see you're still at it with the Nostalgia. This time on the New York Central. Sounded like a nice little ride and Hostess service too Thanks for sharing. Also really enjoyed looking over the names of some of those passenger trains. One such passenger train that I liked was with the C&NW. the Duluth-Superior Limited. I think of like that name. Also liked the Milwaukee's names too. Especially the Afternoon "Hi" and Olympian "Hi". Some pretty nice passenger trains in there. Thanks for sharing.CM3- Interesting little article on the D&H S2s. Those little guys got around. I was even surprised to read that some were built to slug units. I would have never thought that since they're so small. Smaller than an SW1. I will have to read your article on the other page and see what you have there. But thanks for info given.Lars- A very good piece on the Aero train and the history behind it. I've wonder, even with the shape of that thing, how it ever got up to speed. I thought the cab/locomotive portion sticking up above the cars would actually slow it down. But it didn't. Also interesting to see how Disney land and Zoos took the idea and made a close replica of it to run on there perimeter. Some pretty cool stuff. Thanks.Pete- To bad the tram way no longer exists. Some pretty cool pictures too. To me they look like double decker buses on rails. Kind of cool. That could have been a perfect little 5-mile ride. I would have ridden it. Thanks for sharing.Mike- Wow. Some pictures and an article to go along with it. Very Nice. The article was also a good one. Those rail barrens ruled with an iron fist. If they wanted something done, by gaud your going to do it. But with out them, where would the railroad be today. Mr. Loree seemed to know what he was doing. And he built a nice railroad. The Delaware and Hudson. Thanks for sharing.Eric- I noticed your picture at the bottom of your post. That's is some really flat land. And you can see two train traversing across it. I am going to take a guess and say this is located somewhere in California since there is a mountain in the background. Just a guess. Great shot.I will be back later to drop off an interesting article I foundHappy railroadingJames The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:56 PM Hi Tom and all.A pint of Bathams please RUTH and some Fish 'N' Chips for later please.MIKE Interesting post on L.F. Loree who had the golden touch when it came to making money.Many thanks for the links to the great color photos.Very much enjoyed the links to the Irish Railways and for answering the Gauge question. The map on the first link showing the map of the demise of the Irish railway system since 1925 is very sad though.Even today though the Irish railways seem to have a charm of their own still, it must have been a wonderful experience to travel on those lines, especially the narrow gauge, in the 1920s and 30s.Mike,s Railway History( any relation) is a great piece which I will return to.On one of our trips on the RPSI Irish steam tour, the day before the steam trip we had a tour around the Dublin area to places of railway interest, the transport were 2 preserved buses one of which was a ex Great Northern Railway bus still in the company's colours, simular to the one in the link.ERIC I think Mike has answered the gauge question..I still find it strange that 5 ft 3 inch was chosen as surely most of the lines in the UK and those in North America were settling on the 4ft 8 1/2 inches. I wonder how much more it costs to make a Irish gauge diesel than a standard gauge one from GM, and did GM have a 5ft 3inch test track I wonder.Was your photo taken in Arizona. CM3 Enjoyed reading about the D&H diesels.They must have been a great sight in that livery, one of the best in my humble opinion. Many thanks for that link, it loaded OK and I have added it to my favorites. It explains why I have not seen a loco in the D&RGW livery lately as it says there is only one diesel left in those colors.Glad to see you back in JAMES, how was the Chicago trip. Did you notice in the link to the Irish Tramway there was a photo of the Fintona horse drawn tram it lasted until 1957 and was always horse drawn for it's over 100 years existance, probably not by the same horse though.TOM A super list of the Named Trains. The Pennsy alone having 78 of them. I guess the post war period must have been the golden era of North American rail travel a Classic age indeed. I noticed the GULL seemed a popular name with 4 of the roads using it. I guess the Missouri Mule must be a fairly recent name..It is hard to think of any one else in the lead roles in My Fair Lady than Rex and Julie.I bet it was a mavellous show on Broadway.Well it seems I have beat my boss LARS in today so I will make a good impression and make sure the bar is well stocked for the weekend, but first the Fish 'N' Chip , please H&H and a Bathams to wash it down with RUTH.Pete . Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:32 PM Good evening Tom and friends. I'll have a bottomless draught, which you can set next to my new fangled laptop, and of course buy a round for the house. I picked the laptop yesterday, but improper set-up kept me off the internet. The Geek Squad realized their mistake, and now it's working just fine! There was another small problem yesterday too. My *** sump pump didn't kick in during all the rain we were having, and my basement flooded. All the carpet had to come up, and the padding especially was soaked. It sure is a mess down there. Anyhow, I have a new pump, and we're dry again, but have a lot to do to get things tidy again. Sheesh.Moving along, I see that Mike really came through with D&H history and pictures, complimented by information from CM3. I need to get busy on the next segment of the article. Hopefully everyone will get answers to their questions as the article progresses. (I hope)Quite a list of train names from Captain Tom. Great effort, to be sure.Please forgive my hasty departure. I have to drag in the wet carpet that was drying on our driveway. Edit LoveDomes Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: northeast U.S. 1,225 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by LoveDomes on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:33 PM Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!Really enjoyed that looooooooong listing of the named trains from our leader - nicely done Herr Kapitan and it surely brought to mind the reality of a past that is really gone-zo. Bitter sweet, huh Leon, 'tis the Larsman with a thirst that needs quenching - how 'bout TWO Keiths, one frosty mug and two bottles will do! Nah, nothing to eat, but you can slide the snack trays down my way.What a day this has been, what an unbelievable day. Let me just focus on the internet. The Mrs. wanted me to order "a few things" from her favorite department store (Macy's). So off we go to cyber land. As the Cap'n would say <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>. Couldn't get the thing to take the order, after going through all the "motions" of selecting this 'n that, going here 'n there, and so forth. Shopping cart was so full that I need a couple of pages. Hit "enter" and zappo - gone-zo - vanished - ka-putski! <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>If that wasn't enough, I tried to check the bar and kept getting a message to the effect that "This forum does not exist" - or something like that. I could call up every single thread, but not ours. Every time I clicked on it, that message came up. This kept up for most of the morning and well into early afternoon. Not that I was doing ONLY that. But ya know how it is when this stuff begins, it becomes rather obsessive, dontchaknow! <arrrggghhh> <double arrrggghhh>Then about 15 minutes ago, I tried to call up the bar and guess what? Here I am - go figure! <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>On the sports front: How about Tony LaRussa???? That must've been one loooooooooong traffic light! Hey, every guy I know has "been there, done something like that," so I'm not being judgmental. Of all the "personalities" in sports, he's the LAST guy I wudda picked for a DUI. Read where the Blues got screwed big time in a game the other night. They had TWO goals taken away that were clearly "in" upon review by the Oh-fficals up in Toronto. Man oh man, calling the NHL a "garage league" does indeed have some merit. Awful. Noted the return of young James to the group and he couldn't have picked a better 'slot' - mine! We're waiting for that "Chicago report" - but anything you come up with will surely be of interest. Eric, sounds like May isn't going to work for Acela, I mean given the Rendezvous, etc. Perhaps we can kick this around when we meet as I'd love to take it up to Boston 'n return. A bit of coordination and who knows, we could rendezvous aboard like Tom 'n Pete do when the go to Kansas City. Always like reading the "word" from Shane and I expect his Sports Report will be something to look forward to. Opening day sounds just 'bout right to me! Hey Pete! You've never, ever been on my "bad side." Just wonder about that Brit work ethic from time to time. <grin> Oh yeah, I KNOW, you're retired and have earned the right. No dispute with that, mate! However, to love this bar is to be here not in Kansas City and places where you can't access the joint. Sorry boys 'n girls, but I really have to check out. The Mrs. is on my case once again! It never stops. Oh what the heck - Leon, gimme one more, she can wait! I think a small platter of fish 'n chips should go down quite well too! <grin>Ring the bell, Boris, time for a round on me! What's this???? A note from Ruth behind the bar for MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Until the next time! Lars CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:59 PM G-day Tom and all present!Leon- I will take a coffee please. BTW: good to see you.Well I see many are wondering how my trip was. It's was fun and its a long story. But I am going to leave that for tomorrow because I don't have a lot of time at the moment. But I will explain the whole story tomorrow.I just came to drop off an article. This is 1 of 3 so enjoy.The Northern Pacific.The Northern Pacific was chartered on July 2, 1864 as the first northern transcontinental railroad in the United States. It was granted some 47,000,000 acres (190,000 km²) of land in exchange for building rail transportation to an undeveloped territory. Josiah Perham (for whom Perham, Minnesota is named) was elected its first president on December 7, 1864.For the next six years, backers of the road struggled to find financing. Though John Gregory Smith succeeded Perham as president on January 5, 1866, groundbreaking did not take place until February 15, 1870, at Thompson Junction, Minnesota, 25 miles (40 km) west of Duluth, Minnesota. The backing and promotions of famed Civil War financier Jay Cooke in the summer of 1870 brought the first real momentum to the company.Over the course of 1870, the Northern Pacific pushed westward from Minnesota into present-day North Dakota. It also began reaching from Kalama, Washington Territory, on the Columbia River outside of Portland, Oregon, towards Puget Sound. Four small construction engines were purchased, the Minnetonka, Itaska, Ottertail and St. Cloud, the first of which was shipped to Kalama by ship around Cape Horn. In Minnesota, the Lake Superior and Mississippi Railroad completed construction of its 155 mile (250 km) line stretching from St. Paul, Minnesota, to Lake Superior at Duluth in 1870. It was leased to the Northern Pacific the following year, and was eventually absorbed by the Northern Pacific.In 1871, Northern Pacific completed some 230 miles (370 km) of railroad on the east end of its system, reaching out to Moorhead, Minnesota, on the North Dakota border. In the west, the track extended 25 miles north from Kalama. Surveys were carried out in North Dakota protected by 600 troops from General Winfield Scott Hancock. Headquarters and shops were established in Brainerd, Minnesota, a town named for the President John Gregory Smith's wife Anna Elizabeth Brainerd.In 1872, the company put down 164 miles (264 km) of main line across North Dakota, with an additional 45 miles (72 km) in Washington. On November 1, General George Washington Cass became the third president of the company. Cass had been a vice-president and director of the Pennsylvania Railroad, and would lead the Northern Pacific through some of its most difficult times. Attacks on survey parties and construction crews building into Native American homelands in North Dakota became so prevalent the company appealed for Army protection from President The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Friday, March 23, 2007 1:10 AM Good morning Captain Tom and all!!Nice to sit down for a little bit. Leon, I think I would like a 1/2 pound Cheese burger tonight! With everything! Curly fries, please! A rainy day and night in Phoenix, so it is nice to just sit dwon for a while. Kind of quiet day here today, but still railroad info to read! Tom – The picture was taken between Holbrook and Flagstaff, AZ. BNSF line along old Route 66! I bet it is Juneau who has changed your habits so you aren’t a “night owl’ anymore. Right? Thank you for the list of Named Passenger trains! I have copied it! CM3 – The link works fine and I agree, it is a very informative and complete website! Thank you so much. I have bookmarked it! After checking that site I certainly would like to see your notebooks!!Thanks for all information on the D&H motive power! I love that kind of info! James – You are a little bit off, the picture was taken between Holbrook and Flagstaff, AZ. The mountains you see in the background is the San Francisco Mts, just north of Flagstaff. The railroad is BNSF. Thanks for the Northern Pacific article! Looking forward to the remaining parts. Pete – Yes, I consider the answer Mike provided being correct. I am not even going to try to guess what the price difference may be between an Irish gauge diesel and a standard gauge one. You are absolutely correct about my picture! Taken in Arizona (Interstate 40) west of Holbrook, on the way to Flagstaff. I will inform the Grand Prize Jury!Doug – Sorry to hear about your flooded basement. Can you really use the carpet again? Looking forward to the rest of the article! Lars – Thanks for the round! A note from Ruth?! I just don’t want to know what it says, but I can imagine! I am stunned! I think that is a good idea, to discuss Acela at the Rendezvous! Eric siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by siberianmo on Friday, March 23, 2007 6:57 AM Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/ *Idiot of the Week #8I live in a semi-rural area. We recently had a new neighbor call the local township administrative office to request the removal of the Deer Crossing sign on our road. The reason: "Too many deer are being hit by cars out here! I don't think this is a good place for them to be crossing anymore." From Kingman , KS .STAY ALERT!They walk among us .. and they REPRODUCE ..!!!* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * G'day Gents!As with sunrise ‘n sunset, one can always count on the arrival of the end of the work week (for many) - Friday! So, time again to begin the day with our freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course a breakfast selection of a <light> or <traditional> feast from our Menu Board! Been hearing some not-so-flattering "stuff" about Wikipedia lately. Of course, those reporting on it most probably do not understand how that particular resource is designed or intended to be used. As with most things "cyber" on surely wouldn't want to "bank" on the material always being "right on." As we've seen several times, most recently from Eric, there are mistakes and much room for improvement. So as is said, "Buyer beware!"For anyone who wishes to research material over on the original Thread, use this URL for quick access as that site is rapidly fading into the abyss of Forum's history: http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/451/991587/ShowPost.aspx#991587If you know the Page number, just insert it where "451" is and you will be directed to it! Otherwise this URL will take you to the last Page. Still is getting lots of "hits" though . . . . when we shut ‘er down the count was at 163,151 - check it out now, you'll be surprised! A reminder: Anytime you wish to find that URL (above), just go to Page 1 of this Thread and check out the FIRST Post - it's near the bottom. ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):CM3 at 9:31 AM yesterday: You Sir perhaps "stumbled upon" one of the "mysteries of life" as you saw the Post that wasn't! How in the world THAT happened, we'll never know. I did NOT Post that named train list, but rather was trying to get it to come up as a PREVIEW, then all of a sudden my ‘puter locked up and crashed. Next thing ya know, I couldn't log on to the Forums, couldn't even get it to come up. Tried it on the PC and it worked, but I never saw the Post that you saw. Finally got the laptop to "work" after doing some "cleaning" et al. Just a strange, strange thing. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it - no matter the iteration! As with the "flap" over Wikipedia, I generally shy away from "adding or subtracting" from someone else's endeavors. It surely is a go no where situation with so many "cyber experts" out there. However, I generally try to make sure that there's a caveat of sorts to indicate that "lists" and the like are not all inclusive, just to leave the door ajar . . . Now having said all of THAT: knowing you and the keen eye you have coupled with the knowledge base, I'm sure yours is absolutely on track! (on track - get it??) Thanx for the round, quarters and Post! James at 11:53 AM yesterday: The man from Duluth has returned and did so with a most appropriate and inclusive Post. How were you to know that our Manager couldn't make it in for his "slot"?? Nicely done! So, how were things in Chicago??? Pete at 4:56 PM today: On the "good side" of Lars?? Hmmmmm, that may take some doing! <grin>That "list" was back in the 40s, so there's no telling when the "Mules" kicked in (get it??). Anyway, as we've discussed over on the original Thread, a train with a name somehow adds to the "special" feeling one gets, eh Does for me! That topography looks an awful lot like New Mexico or Arizona from my trips through those states. We'll just have to wait ‘n see what Eric has to say.Thanks, as always, for stopping by in the mid to late afternoon "slot"! Doug at 7:32 PM today: And the beat goes on for our Illinois Connection. Appears as if you are pickin' up from where Lars left off. Isn't it just wunnerful being a home owner?? Of course it is - but there are times. <grrrrrrrrrrr> Surely hope this doesn't set you back too much in cash and good nature! Appreciate your taking the time to think of us! Now THAT sez it all. Have a COUPLE on me! Ring it Boris!! Lars at 7:33 PM today: Posted one minute after the barn weevil! Now you couldn't have planned it better, eh? So, you also had some difficulties with the ‘puter AND the Forums. Hmmmmmm. Crazy fer sure.I've had similar episodes ordering things for my bride through the J. C. Pe Happy Railroading! Siberianmo siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by siberianmo on Friday, March 23, 2007 8:14 AM G'day! The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #9A form of this was initially Posted on Page 118 of the original Thread Caveat: The information provided is NOT all inclusive and is reflective only of the periods mentioned. Here's another Passenger RR Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific (The Rock Island) Headquarters: Chicago, IL Mileage in 1950: 7,579 Locomotives in 1963: Diesel - 539 Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 26,690; Passenger cars - 646 Principal routes in 1950: Chicago-Omaha, NEOmaha-Colorado Springs & Denver, CODavenport, IA-Tucumcari, NMBureau Junction-Peoria, ILMinneapolis, MN-Kansas City, MOManly-Burlington, IACedar Rapids (Vinton), IA-Sioux Falls, SDKeokuk, IA-Bear Lake, SDTucumcari-Memphis, TNHerington, KS-Houston, TXLittle Rock, AR-Eunice, LAKansas City-St. Louis Passenger trains of note: Choctaw Rocket (Amarillo, TX-Memphis)Corn Belt Rocket (Chicago-Omaha)Des Moines Rocket (Chicago-Des Moines, IA)Golden State (Chicago-LA; joint ops w/SP)The Imperial (Chicago-LA)Kansas City Rocket (Minneapolis-Kansas City)Peoria Rockets (Chicago-Peoria)Texas Rocket (Ft. Worth-Houston; then Kansas City-Dallas)Twin Star Rocket (Minneapolis-Houston)Quad City Rocket (Chicago-Rock Island)Rocky Mountain Rocket (Chicago-Colorado Springs & Denver)Zephyr Rocket (Minneapolis-St. Louis; joint ops w/CB&Q)* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Rock Island EMD E8A #652 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: unknown) Rock Island Aero Train #2 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: Wade Calvert) Rock Island EMC E3A #625 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: unknown) Enjoy! Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo LoveDomes Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: northeast U.S. 1,225 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by LoveDomes on Friday, March 23, 2007 11:53 AM Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!Ruth my deAH you are as loveRly as evAH and does me good to bask in your glow! Now, where was I???? Ah yes, a tankard of Keiths or me and a round for the house. Time for a Larsman special hero sandwich of ham, Swiss, mustAHd 'n buttAH with two large pickles from the barrel. Treats for the critters of course and a small jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris. Don't want him to think that the large jar is an everyday thing . . . By all means, keep the change! First off, I received an e-mail from BK (also noted that Tom got a copy) and he says that they've been away. In fact he sent it off from Edmonton. They've made the "rounds" for whatever purposes his Mrs. has (she is either still working or semi-retired, or . . .) At any rate, he mentioned some difficulty in getting onto the forums at the end of last week B4 they took off. Guess he found that leased aircraft, for he did mention the flight to Calgary as on the rough side with Lydia wondering if her knuckles would ever return to normal color! <grin> Passed on his regards to what's left of the "gang" here at the bar. Second, I think this is the 3rd week (again) of trolleyboy Rob's continuing absence. Last I recall, he mentioned something about taking a Via Rail trip to Toronto with his Mrs. just for the day. Didn't he take a week off or something? Anyway, haven't heard a thing since and no replies to my e-mail. Soooooooooo, guess Pete will indeed assume the awesome duties of Bar Chandler, that is if Cap'n Tom feels he's ready. <grin>Did anyone happen to notice the writeup from last night's hockey game up in Boston? Seems that the Montreal guys put it to 'em at the Gahden (or whatever it's called these days) and beat 'em with 5 unanswered goals. Bet that place was as silent as a morgue . . . The sports news is still all about Tony LaRussa and his arrest for DUI down in Florida. Hey! I'm not making light of it, he got caught where many of us simply didn't. But the crap I've heard ranges from "acts of contrition" that would make a brass monkey's head turn 'round to volunteering his time to community service and so on. Can you believe it??? Then there are those who seem to think he needs counselling and rehab. Yeah right, as if everyone who takes a snort has a problem. Sure, he screwed up and did so royally. Sound asleep in an intersection with his foot on the brake pedal and the transmission in drive ain't a good thing. Just a hair's difference between that situation and one far, far worse. I think the man said it right in his statement and now it's up to the courts to meter out the punishment. Tony is a good man and will overcome, in my oh-pin-yun. In looking through the contributions since my last, doesn't appear as if much has changed from whatever we call the "norm" at this joint. Used to be we had the Tuesday "theme" thing locked in by now, but it looks to me as if that's in the crapper, at least for a bit.Nice stuff from young James, which could just have easily been our next "theme." Northern Pacific is a gudun, for sure. "The Rock" from Cap'n Tom looks good too! Love the pix . . . A mighty fine road, someone once sang. One more brew, Ruth, then I'm heading over to the Manager's table to catch up on the ever present paper work . . . . <arrrrghhh> Until the next time! Lars pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Friday, March 23, 2007 5:31 PM Hi Tom and all.A pint of Holden's Mild to start with please RUTH, and the Steak and Fries for later..DOUG Real sorry to hear of the basement water problems,glad the new pump is working OK and I hope there was not a lot of damage.JAMES Many thanks for the first part of the Nothern Pacific Railway.It is interesting to read about the building of the line,I had not realised about General Custer and the Little Big Horn involvement. Looking forward to the next installment and the report of your Chicago trip.ERIC Enjoying your photo quizzes. As Tom has said Sweden I will try Germany or France, like the roundhouse in the background.Talking of France,one of their new Double -Deck TGVs built for the new, yet to be opened EST high speed line has set a new speed record for conventional trains of 343MPH.The overall rail record is held by a Japanese MAGLEV. There must be a lot of places where Route 66 runs along side a railroad. On Tom's and my Amtrak trip from St Louis to Chicago Route 66 follows the line for quite a long distance, although there is a new divided highway running alongside the old road.The Irish have stayed loyal to GM locomotives ever since they installed a GM 12-645E engine in their class 001 or A class. these locos were originally built in the mid 1950s and were rebuilt in 1968 to 1971. These locos are no longer in service, but some have been preserved.LARS Glad you could make it in last evening after the computer problems,The bride had some probs with the on line shopping, it certainly is annoying to do a load on the puter press the send and it disappears.Thanks for passing on BK's regards,hopefully it wont be too long before BK can enjoy a drink with us at the bar again. .Looks like I had better prepare for the Bar Chandler exam.I don't suppose we will ever find out what was inn the note RUTH passed to youI wonder what State the painting on the Rock Island book is in,it looks to me like the Mid-west although the title is in the South.TOM Enjoyed the Rock Island Fallen flag Encore.Perhaps they mave have some pictures of the RI in Missouri between Kansas City and St Louis at the library in the Universary at the rendezvous. I must admit I am undecided on the the Rocket livery on the diesel loco though,probably been seeing that great D&H livery lately.Idiot of the Week is a good one this week, perhaps they could get some traffic lights and train the deer to work the buttons with their antlers.It would be indeed interesting to know who is still finding the old Our Place and looking through the posts, it really is amazing the number of views since the start of the year and it does not seem to be slowing down, if only some of those who are obviously enjoying reading the posts would just call in and say HI at the bar.As to the 'hamburger' dont tell Eric but I believe it was made by the fair hand of BORIS, as H&H were a bit miffed about not having the fish 'n' chips, which were very good last night.Talking of I will have the Steak now LEON, a Bathams Bitter to wash it down, and then to make sure the bar stays well stocked for the track gangPete. « First«21222324252627»Last » SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! 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Now arriving on track #2
RR Theme for the Day - Number Five
Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds and images from other sources.
Aerotrain (EMD)
Rock Island Aerotrain at the St. Louis Museum of Transportation
The Aerotrain makes its debut in 1955.
The Aerotrain is a streamlined trainset introduced by General Motors Electro-Motive Division in the mid-1950s. Like all of GM's great body designs of this mid-century era, this futuristic train was first brought to life in Harley Earl's GM Styling Section. It utilized the experimental EMD LWT12 locomotive (essentially an EMD SW1200 switcher engine geared for high-speed passenger service and wrapped in an aerodynamic shell), coupled to a set of modified General Motors 40-seat intercity bus coach bodies. The cars each rode on two axles with an airbag suspension system, which was intended to give a smooth ride but had the opposite effect.
History
GM's Aerotrain, in service as the City of Las Vegas, makes a station stop on its way to Los Angeles in 1957.
The two Aerotrain demonstrator sets logged over 600,000 miles and saw service on the following railroads:
In 1956 Aerotrain No. 2 was leased as a demonstrator to the New York Central, and operated between Cleveland and Chicago. In the summer of 1957 it was operated by the Union Pacific as the City of Las Vegas, running between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. The train eventually found itself in Chicago commuter service on the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad.
GM's "lightweight with a heavyweight future" was introduced at a time when U.S. passenger train revenues were steadily declining due to competition from airlines and private automobile travel. Although it featured an eye-catching, streamlined design, the Aerotrain failed to capture the imagination of the American public. The cars, based on GM bus designs and using an air cushioning system, were rough riding and not very comfortable for the passengers. The design of the locomotive section rendered even routine maintenance extremely difficult and time-consuming. The locomotive unit was underpowered. Eventually, both trainsets were retired after only a decade's use in 1966. Today, Aerotrain No. 1 is on permanent display at the Museum of Transportation in St. Louis, Missouri, while No. 2 resides at the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Disneyland operated a scale version of the Aerotrain, known as the Viewliner, from 1957 to 1959 (see below). Since
A pint of Holden's Golden Glow for this rather windy afternoon please RUTH.
ERIC The Grand Prize sounds more interesting by the minute.
I am still trying to find out about the origin of the 5ft 3 inch gauge in Ireland.Although the first railway in Ireland the Dublin to Kingstown( now known as Dun Laoghaire), the first section was opened in December 1834, was built to the 4 ft 8 1/2 inch gauge. It was coverted to the Irish 'Standard Gauge' of 5 ft 3inch in 1857
I have found out that there was a 5ft 3 inch gauge electric tramway to the north of Dublin. It was built by the Great Northern Railway(Ireland), was 5 1/2 miles long and gave access to the Hill of Howth. It connected with the GNR(I) Howth line to Dublin. It opened in 1901. The electrified Dublin Area Rapid Transit (DART) still runs down the branch to Howth although the tramway closed in 1959. Here is a link wth some pics of the Tramway( there could not have been many 5 ft 3 inch gauge tramways about I would have thought)
http://www.trolleybus.net/hoh.htm
I will keep looking but once I get my nose in the 1950s Raiway Magazines it is quiet a while before I surface again, although during that period a lot of the Irish Narrow gauge lines were closing.
DOUG Many thanks for part 2 on the D&H. It seems they were unfortunate with the steam locos they brought over. It was good to read about Stourbridge Lion, I really must get to the Smithsonian to see her. I wonder who built the other 3 locos, I must admit I had not heard of them before.
It was remarkable how the steam locomotive and the rails improved in the short period after 1829.Although the Baldwin Cars must have been cold to travel in they sure were an improvement on the coal cars, they seem to have been fairly long lived.
Great series.
CM3 I sent to link on the Globe to a native of Boston who nows lives on the West Coast and he remembered the Boeings well.
Enjoyed reading about the D&H Alco S2s and the lines they went work on when their D&H careers were over.
Many thanks TOM and LARS for the great Aerotrain posts and links. It was a Classic design and deserved more than a decade in service,it makes one wonder how much of the new features on the Aerotrain was included in later designs.
I think the 50s must have been the peak for the advertising industry as well, with some fantastic artwork which I don't think has been equalled since.
A pic of the No 2 Aerotrain at the National Railroad Museum at Green Bay WI.
Yes TOM the Durango & Silverton and the Cumbres & Toltec are really great lines with wonderful scenery. I have a guide book on the Cumbres line somewhere.
It is good to know that had the Soap Box cars over here as well, Our Place is great for bringing back half forgotten memories.
Wot not proper English, "Gawd luv a duck", Eliza Doolittle.
Well LEON I see you behind the bar now, we will have to set a date when BORIS and you can do the bodyguard duties at the Can-Am Gorge cabin, meanwhile I'll have another Holden's and let me get a round in.
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
Doug performs a service in digitizing material that otherwise might never become available on the internet. The Great Gatsby is digitized, Shakespeare too, but magazine articles from decades ago, not so much. Lately I've borrowed from the Time website, tons of railroad stuff there. What I like is that it is history written as current events. The authors didn't know what would happen next.
Lion of Nassau Street TIME Magazine Feb. 6, 1933 (www. time.com)
In a cupid-encrusted office at No. 32 Nassau St., Manhattan, where Jay Gould used to play financial chess with railroads for queens, hulking old Leonor Fresnel Loree has sat growling into his beard for seven years, trying to thwart a checkmate. Occasionally he would stride over to a railroad map of the U. S. on which a great Loree System was only a dotted line, and stand there cursing softly. Or he would sit slumped behind his desk banging a stack of five-dollar gold pieces from one hand into the other and express himself bitterly to curious interviewers: "Hell, I don't see how those fellows have the face to talk the way they do. But you can say anything if you keep a straight face."
"Those fellows" were the Interstate Commerce Commission and the "Big Four" railway systems-New York Central, Baltimore & Ohio, Chesapeake & Ohio, Pennsylvania. They had balked his every effort to form another great Eastern system which would be L. F. Loree's monument. As a railroad man in the gaudy tradition of Vanderbilt, Harriman and Hill, Leonor Loree was known & feared, but Vanderbilt, Harriman and Hill had their big systems and bearded old Mr. Loree had only the smallish Delaware & Hudson and Kansas City Southern. Between them was a great gap. But L. F. Loree was tenacious.
Last week railroad men opened their eyes wide at the announcement that Loree's D. & H. had bought 500,000 shares of New York Central-the full 10% of shares outstanding which it could buy without permission from the New York Public Service Commission-and at the report that L. F. Loree's friends had acquired another 500,000 shares. With a 20% command, the 74-year-old fighter was in a fair way to dominate one of the biggest rail systems in the land.
During the seven years in which he schemed for prestige L. F. Loree may sometimes have reflected cynically that if he had not been such a good executive he might have become a greater power. By nature, training and beard he belongs in the tradition of the earlier rail tycoons. From Rutgers, at 19, he went into railway engineering on Western roads, quit to carry a tripod with the Army Engineer Corps, quit that to survey a right of way for the Mexican National Railway. In 1883 he went to the Pennsylvania and began to make himself known. He could speedily dig out traffic stalled in snowdrifts; he reconstructed in short order a section of the main line washed out by the Johnstown flood. At 38 he was jumped over a dozen heads to the job of General Manager West of Pittsburgh. When the Pennsylvania bought the dilapidated Baltimore & Ohio, Leonor Loree was sent in as president.
He put the B. & O. on its feet in three years and immediately was offered $75,000 a year to be president of the Rock Island. As president of the B. & O. he was getting $25,000. Hardheaded, he wanted the money. Personally ambitious and aggressive, he wanted to do things by himself.
He took the Rock Island job and thereby probably kept himself from becoming head of a great system long before this. Within nine months he had split with Rock Island's backers, but under his five-year contract he continued to draw his $75,000, largest in the U. S. He went to the Kansas City Southern, described at the time as "a right of way and two streaks of rust," and promptly put that firmly on its feet.
After the panic of 1907 the late great Edward Henry Harriman picked L. F. Loree for president of another tottering road, the Delaware & Hudson. It was an 870-mi. line running from "nowhere [WilkesBarre] to nowhere [Montreal]." President Loree saw that its only paying function would be carrying hard coal. He segregated its coal properties, then its coal-carrying railroad, so that today D. & H. is a holding company. It was the coal properties that eventually enabled L. F. Loree to enter railroading's major league as a real power.
Meanwhile he was stuck with two disconnected roads out of the main line of railroad development. The "Big Four" systems grew up and dominated Eastern transportation. The Loree roads, though profitable, were little heard of, though Mr. Loree was heard of: People said he knew more about railroading than any man in the U. S.; his Railroad Freight Transportation is the Blackstone of the subject.
In 1925 he began to fight. He was 67, but with no idea of retiring. Backed by Kuhn, Loeb & Co. and the second generation of Harrimans, he began planning a big system in the Southwest, another system to connect his Kansas City Southern and D. & H. In 1927 the Interstate Commerce Commission turned thumbs down on his Southwestern plan, holding that K. C. S. was too small a base for a financial pyramid.
He dropped his Southwestern plan and concentrated on the East. In 1927 he mortgaged D. & H. coal properties for $35,000,000 and began to buy into small Eastern key roads, planning to build and piece together a new trunkline to the Midwest. This plan the I. C. C. blocked with its first consolidation plan, parceling out the East among the "Big Four," taking no account of Mr. Loree.
He next thrust himself into the picture with a plan for a semicircular belt system connecting New England and Baltimore, to distribute Midwestern products to seaboard. This again stepped on too many toes. He was ordered to sell his interest in the Wabash (now in receivership) and Lehigh Valley, which he did, to the Pennsylvania, at $23,000,000 clear profit.
The second I. C. C. consolidation plan (TIME, Aug. 1) as usual left D. & H. in a bad spot, its disposition undetermined. Mr. Loree, with masses of cash on hand, bided his time to begin a frontal attack for his place in the sun. At the 1929 high, 500,000 New York Central shares would have cost D. & H. $125,000,000. At Depression figures Mr. Loree picked them up through J. P. Morgan & Co. for $10.000,000. With the leverage that a 20% interest gives him, he would not have to wait long to fit little D. & H. into New York Central's big system, if that is his intention. The fact that Central owes some $80,000,000 to banks and the R. F. C. did not seem to bother him at all last week.
What place he will seek for himself had railroad men guessing. Central's board chairmanship has been vacant since Chauncey Depew died (1928). That he would seek the presidency he promptly denied, saying: "I have the greatest confidence in the present management of Central. During the War I was put in charge of railroad operations in the Eastern region and H. H. Smith, then president of Central, let me have [present President Frederick Ely] Williamson to help me out. We transported 3,500,000 troops in our territory, and it really was Mr. Williamson who did the work. . . . I have the greatest confidence in him."
That Leonor Loree had not carried his big maneuvers to their final stage was suggested by one more event of last week: David M. Collins, Mr. Loree's son-in-law, that day retired from his Stock Exchange firm to act as his father-in-law's personal broker in future. Although D. & H. last week passed its dividend for the first time in 53 years, it still has perhaps $25,000,0001n its war chest.
Milestones TIME Magazine Sept. 16, 1940 (www. time.com)
Died. Leonor Fresnel Loree, 82, retired (1938) head of Delaware & Hudson Railroad; of a heart attack; at his mountain estate near West Orange, N.J. Among sleek, ICC-conscious latterday railroad presidents, massive (300-lb.), buffalo-bearded, uncompromising Leonor Loree seemed a gaudy symbol of the roaring '80s, when he began his long career. In 60 years he headed more roads, introduced more permanent operating innovations, made a higher salary ($100,000) than any surviving railroader. His last spectacular gesture came in 1933, when he bought his way (for $10,000,000) into the No. 1 stockholder's seat of mighty New York Central. Widely read, a quoter of Spengler and Ortega y Gasset. he wrote an authoritative book on railroads, another on anthracite. His motto: "Be audacious." His battlecry: "Management is notoriously underpaid."
L. F. Loree in 1909
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/03400/03457v.jpg
D&H at Starrucca Viaduct
http://67.15.20.45/images/3/34.jpg.74314.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/d/DH_17_Starucca.jpg.64999.jpg
D&RGW Alco
http://67.15.20.45/images/d/drgw6003.jpg.76991.jpg
DART (Dublin Area Rapid Transit)
http://i.pbase.com/o4/10/638210/1/59502839.DARTatKilliney.jpg
Pete, there's some info on broad gauge track in Ireland at these pages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Ireland#Railway_gauges
http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r051.html
Mike
Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!
Another short stop, Leon! I would like that half dry danish a a cup of coffee! Don't forget my free drink, yepp thats it!
Too much to do at work right now, so I don't have that much time to spend but I don't want to miss my moments here at the bar!
Tom – You are correct, Sir! I am a night owl. Have always been and will always be! I am allergic to mornings. Ahh, thanks for the NYC ad! Aerotrain is a train I have to read more about! As of today the only thing I know is what they look(ed) like. I understand there is one of the train sets in your neighborhood!
CM3 – Thanks for the round! Do you know if there is any D&H locomotive preserved today? Lars – If I am going to Boston this spring it will be in April or early May and I will fly all the way. Second half of May is already booked for the Rendezvous! The Acela trip is something else. I am trying to find the people (at least one of them) I know who know that I was promised a free ride years ago. Interesting info on the Aerotrain! I wonder how much modified those bus coach bodies were? I just saw that No. 1 is on display in St. Louis! Perfect! Pete – Thanks for coninuing looking for the origin of the Irish broad gauge railroads! Take your time, no rush! Maybe Mike provided the correct answer below?Mike – Very interesting story about Mr Leonor Loree and the D&H! That man obviously knew how to get things done! 300 lbs! A big guy indeed!Thanks for the links and especially for the one about the origin of the Irish broad gauge railroads! Interesting, just a compromise! Also nice pictures of D&H locomotives!
Another week is rapidly coming to a conclusion as Thursday is upon us. Draw a mug of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, order a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board and of course check out The Mentor Village Bakery case.
CM3 at 8:12 AM yesterday: NIT? Why there was little doubt back in the 50s that the Dayton Flyers had a "lock" on the finals pretty much year after year (or so it seemed). Yes, the NIT at the old Madison Square Garden was THE tournament -hands down. I remember!
I haven't ventured very far from home this week, but do intend to swing by a place I hope has that RR History magazine. I'll take you up on your offer should I not find an issue - thanx!
Quarters, round and visit much appreciated!
Lars at 11:02 AM yesterday: Steady ‘n dependable - two words we used to apply to so many at the Saloon by the Siding, now reduced to just a precious few. Really appreciate your continuing willingness to step up and keep things rollin' - sincere thanx!
Aerotrain rerun lookin' mighty fine!
Pete at 6:20 PM yesterday: Our mid to late afternoon "anchor" arrived and provided us with a typically "Pete" inclusive ‘n informative Post.
That RI Aerotrain looks to be in fine condition - nice Pix!
Proper English methinks is defined by those who butcher it! Love Eliza Doolittle - thought the stage play was far better than the movie - saw it on Broadway with Rex ‘n Julie many, many years ago. One of our favorites on video . . .
Mike at 7:34 PM yesterday: "Weekly" appearance by "silent" Mike - lotsastuff for lotsainterests.
Eric at 1:07 AM today: Yes, we'll be viewing the Aerotrain at the Museum of Transportation during the Rendezvous in St. Louis.
That Pix reminds me of several locations in the U.S. southwest where the landscape panorama is huge - mountains, mesas, highways and the ever present railroad right of way. Nicely done, Sir!
Nothing wrong with being a "night owl," just that THOSE DAZE are behind me. <grin>
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing. This is Fish ‘ Chips Nite! Dinner begins at 5 PM.
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. As they used to say back in the day; "weather clear, track fast." On to the stack of stuff, plus some additional D&H-related information triggered by Mike's pictures. There's also some New Haven material at the end of the post.
Pete stopped by with commentary.
Lars also visited with additional Aerotrain material.
Mike - The Loree profile was a good one; I knew, if anybody would, you'd find something. Check out the picture of Loree; my police officer neighbor (K9 handler) has a dog whose eye's look just like that.
The D&H pictures were great. The one of the Starruca viaduct shows E-L (originally Erie) on top, D&H down below. The Great Model Railroads video/DVD series has a program featuring Harold Wirthwein's most excellent Erie model railroad. It has an excellent rendition of the viaduct as well as a ton of other Erie prototype scenes. Let's look a little closer.
D&H 5004 is part of a group of locomotives with a most interesting history.
D&H 5000-5011 were all Alco RS11s which came to the D&H in 1961. D&H 5000-5005 were originally supposed to go to the New York Central where they would have been NYC 8009-8014; they were, of course, never delivered to the NYC.
The last Alcos purchased by the D&H, (for those who are interested in such things), were D&H 5012-5023. These were RS36s purchased in 1963.
I spent a fair amount of time around the D&H, because they were relatively close by when I was still living in the frozen north, and you never knew what was going to appear on their trains. For example, here's two more pieces of D&H material which tie back to the Erie-Lackawanna. This gets a bit crazy, so hang on.
In the midst of the Alcos and GEs on their roster, the D&H had three SD45s. These were D&H 801-803. These beasties were originally EMD demonstrators 4354, 4352, and 4353. They were leased to the E-L; some of you may recall seeing them on the E-L; I know I do. In 1976, however, they were returned to the D&H.
Last, D&H 751-753 were U33Cs. They were blt. In 1968 (yes, Tex, it was that long ago) and were originally E-L 3301-3303; the E-L leased them to the D&H and they were returned to the E-L in 1976.
Eric (and others who share my interest in motive power) the following website is simply one of the best out there. It's called the Diesel Shop (be prepared to spend a lot of time looking at stuff) It's at http://www.thedieselshop.us/MPR.html I don't know if the link will work, so I included the site name as well so you can find it - it's an excellent place to find information (almost as good as my notebooks - LOL).
OSP visited with a list of name trains - it's enough to make you weep; I looked through the New Haven section - add two more names in there; the Narragansett and the Owl. Both of these were Boston-New York overnight trains. Many of the names listed in the New Haven section were interline operations; fascinating stuff if you start looking at consists; especially for Pullmans.
Don't know why or how, but this Post apparently did show up when it was supposed to be in PREVIEW mode - hmmmmm, CM3 referred to it. Good Gawd Gertie, Gremlins Gotcha!
One more time . . . from Page 164 of the original Thread on Nov 16th, 2005.
This was Posted over on the original Thread a couple of times, but not here. Time for our "new guys" to check it out . . .
Here's a little something you may find of interest. It has been used with permission from: http://www.innvista.com/default.htm with some additions (noted) and minor editing. We'll call this Fallen Flags Extra! While there are some differences between the Fallen Flags that I have Posted for Passenger Trains, there's no reason to do anything other than enjoy the names of these fine passenger trains! Some Name Passenger Trains by Railroad in 1948 This list includes trains from North America only. This gives an idea of the number of passenger trains operating in Canada and the United States in 1948. The name trains have been listed according by railroad that they traveled over. In some cases just the Pullman equipment traveled over these lines. Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe (AT&SF) •1. Antelope •2. California Limited •3. California Special •4. Cavern •5. Centennial State •6. Chicagoan •7. Chief •8. El Capitan •9. El Pasoan •10. Fast Mail Express •11. Golden Gate •12. Grand Canyon •13. Kansas Cityan •14. Oil Flyer •15. Ranger •16. San Diegan •17. Scout •18. Super Chief •19. Texas Chief •20. Tulsan •21. West Texas Express Atlanta and West Point (A&WP) •1. Crescent •2. Piedmont Limited Atlantic Coast Line (ACL) •1. Champion (East Coast) •2. Champion (West Coast) •3. City of Miami •4. Dixie Flagler •5. Dixie Flyer •6. Dixie Limited •7. Everglades •8. Flamingo •9. Georgian •10. Havana Special (East Coast) •11. Havana Special (West Coast) •12. Miamian •13. Palmetto •14. Seminole •15. South Wind •16. Southland •17. Sunchaser Baltimore and Ohio (B&O) •1. Ambassador •2. Capitol Limited •3. Cincinnatian •4. Cleveland Night Express •5. Columbian •6. Diplomat •7. Marylander •8. Metropolitan Special •9. National •10. Royal Blue •11. Shenandoah Bangor & Aroostook (BAR) (added by siberianmo) 1. Aroostock Flyer2. Potatoland Special Boston and Maine (B&M) •1. Alouette •2. Flying Yankee •3. Green Mountain •4. Gull •5. Kennebec •6. Minute Man •7. Monadnoch •8. Montrealer •9. Mount Royal •10. Mountaineer •11. New Englander •12. Penobscot •13. Pine Tree •14. Red Wing •15. State of Maine •16. Washingtonian Canadian National Railways (CNR) •1. Ambassador •2. Continental Limited •3. Gull •4. Inter-City Limited •5. International Limited •6. LaSalle •7. Maple Leaf •8. Maritime Express •9. Montrealer &bull Happy Railroading! Siberianmo CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, March 22, 2007 11:53 AM G-day Tom and all present!Ruth- I'm soooo glad to see you again. I haven't been here for a while so I'm going to start off with a coffee and a Turkey sandwich with the works. ThanksOkay I am back and ready for a little conversation. Sorry for my longer absence than usual. I was getting things put and set straight around the homestead and at work.But I'm back to have some fun. I will start off with the first page and work my way back to when I first left off.Tom- Good to see you're still at it with the Nostalgia. This time on the New York Central. Sounded like a nice little ride and Hostess service too Thanks for sharing. Also really enjoyed looking over the names of some of those passenger trains. One such passenger train that I liked was with the C&NW. the Duluth-Superior Limited. I think of like that name. Also liked the Milwaukee's names too. Especially the Afternoon "Hi" and Olympian "Hi". Some pretty nice passenger trains in there. Thanks for sharing.CM3- Interesting little article on the D&H S2s. Those little guys got around. I was even surprised to read that some were built to slug units. I would have never thought that since they're so small. Smaller than an SW1. I will have to read your article on the other page and see what you have there. But thanks for info given.Lars- A very good piece on the Aero train and the history behind it. I've wonder, even with the shape of that thing, how it ever got up to speed. I thought the cab/locomotive portion sticking up above the cars would actually slow it down. But it didn't. Also interesting to see how Disney land and Zoos took the idea and made a close replica of it to run on there perimeter. Some pretty cool stuff. Thanks.Pete- To bad the tram way no longer exists. Some pretty cool pictures too. To me they look like double decker buses on rails. Kind of cool. That could have been a perfect little 5-mile ride. I would have ridden it. Thanks for sharing.Mike- Wow. Some pictures and an article to go along with it. Very Nice. The article was also a good one. Those rail barrens ruled with an iron fist. If they wanted something done, by gaud your going to do it. But with out them, where would the railroad be today. Mr. Loree seemed to know what he was doing. And he built a nice railroad. The Delaware and Hudson. Thanks for sharing.Eric- I noticed your picture at the bottom of your post. That's is some really flat land. And you can see two train traversing across it. I am going to take a guess and say this is located somewhere in California since there is a mountain in the background. Just a guess. Great shot.I will be back later to drop off an interesting article I foundHappy railroadingJames The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:56 PM Hi Tom and all.A pint of Bathams please RUTH and some Fish 'N' Chips for later please.MIKE Interesting post on L.F. Loree who had the golden touch when it came to making money.Many thanks for the links to the great color photos.Very much enjoyed the links to the Irish Railways and for answering the Gauge question. The map on the first link showing the map of the demise of the Irish railway system since 1925 is very sad though.Even today though the Irish railways seem to have a charm of their own still, it must have been a wonderful experience to travel on those lines, especially the narrow gauge, in the 1920s and 30s.Mike,s Railway History( any relation) is a great piece which I will return to.On one of our trips on the RPSI Irish steam tour, the day before the steam trip we had a tour around the Dublin area to places of railway interest, the transport were 2 preserved buses one of which was a ex Great Northern Railway bus still in the company's colours, simular to the one in the link.ERIC I think Mike has answered the gauge question..I still find it strange that 5 ft 3 inch was chosen as surely most of the lines in the UK and those in North America were settling on the 4ft 8 1/2 inches. I wonder how much more it costs to make a Irish gauge diesel than a standard gauge one from GM, and did GM have a 5ft 3inch test track I wonder.Was your photo taken in Arizona. CM3 Enjoyed reading about the D&H diesels.They must have been a great sight in that livery, one of the best in my humble opinion. Many thanks for that link, it loaded OK and I have added it to my favorites. It explains why I have not seen a loco in the D&RGW livery lately as it says there is only one diesel left in those colors.Glad to see you back in JAMES, how was the Chicago trip. Did you notice in the link to the Irish Tramway there was a photo of the Fintona horse drawn tram it lasted until 1957 and was always horse drawn for it's over 100 years existance, probably not by the same horse though.TOM A super list of the Named Trains. The Pennsy alone having 78 of them. I guess the post war period must have been the golden era of North American rail travel a Classic age indeed. I noticed the GULL seemed a popular name with 4 of the roads using it. I guess the Missouri Mule must be a fairly recent name..It is hard to think of any one else in the lead roles in My Fair Lady than Rex and Julie.I bet it was a mavellous show on Broadway.Well it seems I have beat my boss LARS in today so I will make a good impression and make sure the bar is well stocked for the weekend, but first the Fish 'N' Chip , please H&H and a Bathams to wash it down with RUTH.Pete . Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:32 PM Good evening Tom and friends. I'll have a bottomless draught, which you can set next to my new fangled laptop, and of course buy a round for the house. I picked the laptop yesterday, but improper set-up kept me off the internet. The Geek Squad realized their mistake, and now it's working just fine! There was another small problem yesterday too. My *** sump pump didn't kick in during all the rain we were having, and my basement flooded. All the carpet had to come up, and the padding especially was soaked. It sure is a mess down there. Anyhow, I have a new pump, and we're dry again, but have a lot to do to get things tidy again. Sheesh.Moving along, I see that Mike really came through with D&H history and pictures, complimented by information from CM3. I need to get busy on the next segment of the article. Hopefully everyone will get answers to their questions as the article progresses. (I hope)Quite a list of train names from Captain Tom. Great effort, to be sure.Please forgive my hasty departure. I have to drag in the wet carpet that was drying on our driveway. Edit LoveDomes Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: northeast U.S. 1,225 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by LoveDomes on Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:33 PM Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!Really enjoyed that looooooooong listing of the named trains from our leader - nicely done Herr Kapitan and it surely brought to mind the reality of a past that is really gone-zo. Bitter sweet, huh Leon, 'tis the Larsman with a thirst that needs quenching - how 'bout TWO Keiths, one frosty mug and two bottles will do! Nah, nothing to eat, but you can slide the snack trays down my way.What a day this has been, what an unbelievable day. Let me just focus on the internet. The Mrs. wanted me to order "a few things" from her favorite department store (Macy's). So off we go to cyber land. As the Cap'n would say <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>. Couldn't get the thing to take the order, after going through all the "motions" of selecting this 'n that, going here 'n there, and so forth. Shopping cart was so full that I need a couple of pages. Hit "enter" and zappo - gone-zo - vanished - ka-putski! <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>If that wasn't enough, I tried to check the bar and kept getting a message to the effect that "This forum does not exist" - or something like that. I could call up every single thread, but not ours. Every time I clicked on it, that message came up. This kept up for most of the morning and well into early afternoon. Not that I was doing ONLY that. But ya know how it is when this stuff begins, it becomes rather obsessive, dontchaknow! <arrrggghhh> <double arrrggghhh>Then about 15 minutes ago, I tried to call up the bar and guess what? Here I am - go figure! <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>On the sports front: How about Tony LaRussa???? That must've been one loooooooooong traffic light! Hey, every guy I know has "been there, done something like that," so I'm not being judgmental. Of all the "personalities" in sports, he's the LAST guy I wudda picked for a DUI. Read where the Blues got screwed big time in a game the other night. They had TWO goals taken away that were clearly "in" upon review by the Oh-fficals up in Toronto. Man oh man, calling the NHL a "garage league" does indeed have some merit. Awful. Noted the return of young James to the group and he couldn't have picked a better 'slot' - mine! We're waiting for that "Chicago report" - but anything you come up with will surely be of interest. Eric, sounds like May isn't going to work for Acela, I mean given the Rendezvous, etc. Perhaps we can kick this around when we meet as I'd love to take it up to Boston 'n return. A bit of coordination and who knows, we could rendezvous aboard like Tom 'n Pete do when the go to Kansas City. Always like reading the "word" from Shane and I expect his Sports Report will be something to look forward to. Opening day sounds just 'bout right to me! Hey Pete! You've never, ever been on my "bad side." Just wonder about that Brit work ethic from time to time. <grin> Oh yeah, I KNOW, you're retired and have earned the right. No dispute with that, mate! However, to love this bar is to be here not in Kansas City and places where you can't access the joint. Sorry boys 'n girls, but I really have to check out. The Mrs. is on my case once again! It never stops. Oh what the heck - Leon, gimme one more, she can wait! I think a small platter of fish 'n chips should go down quite well too! <grin>Ring the bell, Boris, time for a round on me! What's this???? A note from Ruth behind the bar for MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Until the next time! Lars CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:59 PM G-day Tom and all present!Leon- I will take a coffee please. BTW: good to see you.Well I see many are wondering how my trip was. It's was fun and its a long story. But I am going to leave that for tomorrow because I don't have a lot of time at the moment. But I will explain the whole story tomorrow.I just came to drop off an article. This is 1 of 3 so enjoy.The Northern Pacific.The Northern Pacific was chartered on July 2, 1864 as the first northern transcontinental railroad in the United States. It was granted some 47,000,000 acres (190,000 km²) of land in exchange for building rail transportation to an undeveloped territory. Josiah Perham (for whom Perham, Minnesota is named) was elected its first president on December 7, 1864.For the next six years, backers of the road struggled to find financing. Though John Gregory Smith succeeded Perham as president on January 5, 1866, groundbreaking did not take place until February 15, 1870, at Thompson Junction, Minnesota, 25 miles (40 km) west of Duluth, Minnesota. The backing and promotions of famed Civil War financier Jay Cooke in the summer of 1870 brought the first real momentum to the company.Over the course of 1870, the Northern Pacific pushed westward from Minnesota into present-day North Dakota. It also began reaching from Kalama, Washington Territory, on the Columbia River outside of Portland, Oregon, towards Puget Sound. Four small construction engines were purchased, the Minnetonka, Itaska, Ottertail and St. Cloud, the first of which was shipped to Kalama by ship around Cape Horn. In Minnesota, the Lake Superior and Mississippi Railroad completed construction of its 155 mile (250 km) line stretching from St. Paul, Minnesota, to Lake Superior at Duluth in 1870. It was leased to the Northern Pacific the following year, and was eventually absorbed by the Northern Pacific.In 1871, Northern Pacific completed some 230 miles (370 km) of railroad on the east end of its system, reaching out to Moorhead, Minnesota, on the North Dakota border. In the west, the track extended 25 miles north from Kalama. Surveys were carried out in North Dakota protected by 600 troops from General Winfield Scott Hancock. Headquarters and shops were established in Brainerd, Minnesota, a town named for the President John Gregory Smith's wife Anna Elizabeth Brainerd.In 1872, the company put down 164 miles (264 km) of main line across North Dakota, with an additional 45 miles (72 km) in Washington. On November 1, General George Washington Cass became the third president of the company. Cass had been a vice-president and director of the Pennsylvania Railroad, and would lead the Northern Pacific through some of its most difficult times. Attacks on survey parties and construction crews building into Native American homelands in North Dakota became so prevalent the company appealed for Army protection from President The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Friday, March 23, 2007 1:10 AM Good morning Captain Tom and all!!Nice to sit down for a little bit. Leon, I think I would like a 1/2 pound Cheese burger tonight! With everything! Curly fries, please! A rainy day and night in Phoenix, so it is nice to just sit dwon for a while. Kind of quiet day here today, but still railroad info to read! Tom – The picture was taken between Holbrook and Flagstaff, AZ. BNSF line along old Route 66! I bet it is Juneau who has changed your habits so you aren’t a “night owl’ anymore. Right? Thank you for the list of Named Passenger trains! I have copied it! CM3 – The link works fine and I agree, it is a very informative and complete website! Thank you so much. I have bookmarked it! After checking that site I certainly would like to see your notebooks!!Thanks for all information on the D&H motive power! I love that kind of info! James – You are a little bit off, the picture was taken between Holbrook and Flagstaff, AZ. The mountains you see in the background is the San Francisco Mts, just north of Flagstaff. The railroad is BNSF. Thanks for the Northern Pacific article! Looking forward to the remaining parts. Pete – Yes, I consider the answer Mike provided being correct. I am not even going to try to guess what the price difference may be between an Irish gauge diesel and a standard gauge one. You are absolutely correct about my picture! Taken in Arizona (Interstate 40) west of Holbrook, on the way to Flagstaff. I will inform the Grand Prize Jury!Doug – Sorry to hear about your flooded basement. Can you really use the carpet again? Looking forward to the rest of the article! Lars – Thanks for the round! A note from Ruth?! I just don’t want to know what it says, but I can imagine! I am stunned! I think that is a good idea, to discuss Acela at the Rendezvous! Eric siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by siberianmo on Friday, March 23, 2007 6:57 AM Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/ *Idiot of the Week #8I live in a semi-rural area. We recently had a new neighbor call the local township administrative office to request the removal of the Deer Crossing sign on our road. The reason: "Too many deer are being hit by cars out here! I don't think this is a good place for them to be crossing anymore." From Kingman , KS .STAY ALERT!They walk among us .. and they REPRODUCE ..!!!* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * G'day Gents!As with sunrise ‘n sunset, one can always count on the arrival of the end of the work week (for many) - Friday! So, time again to begin the day with our freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course a breakfast selection of a <light> or <traditional> feast from our Menu Board! Been hearing some not-so-flattering "stuff" about Wikipedia lately. Of course, those reporting on it most probably do not understand how that particular resource is designed or intended to be used. As with most things "cyber" on surely wouldn't want to "bank" on the material always being "right on." As we've seen several times, most recently from Eric, there are mistakes and much room for improvement. So as is said, "Buyer beware!"For anyone who wishes to research material over on the original Thread, use this URL for quick access as that site is rapidly fading into the abyss of Forum's history: http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/451/991587/ShowPost.aspx#991587If you know the Page number, just insert it where "451" is and you will be directed to it! Otherwise this URL will take you to the last Page. Still is getting lots of "hits" though . . . . when we shut ‘er down the count was at 163,151 - check it out now, you'll be surprised! A reminder: Anytime you wish to find that URL (above), just go to Page 1 of this Thread and check out the FIRST Post - it's near the bottom. ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (since my last narrative):CM3 at 9:31 AM yesterday: You Sir perhaps "stumbled upon" one of the "mysteries of life" as you saw the Post that wasn't! How in the world THAT happened, we'll never know. I did NOT Post that named train list, but rather was trying to get it to come up as a PREVIEW, then all of a sudden my ‘puter locked up and crashed. Next thing ya know, I couldn't log on to the Forums, couldn't even get it to come up. Tried it on the PC and it worked, but I never saw the Post that you saw. Finally got the laptop to "work" after doing some "cleaning" et al. Just a strange, strange thing. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it - no matter the iteration! As with the "flap" over Wikipedia, I generally shy away from "adding or subtracting" from someone else's endeavors. It surely is a go no where situation with so many "cyber experts" out there. However, I generally try to make sure that there's a caveat of sorts to indicate that "lists" and the like are not all inclusive, just to leave the door ajar . . . Now having said all of THAT: knowing you and the keen eye you have coupled with the knowledge base, I'm sure yours is absolutely on track! (on track - get it??) Thanx for the round, quarters and Post! James at 11:53 AM yesterday: The man from Duluth has returned and did so with a most appropriate and inclusive Post. How were you to know that our Manager couldn't make it in for his "slot"?? Nicely done! So, how were things in Chicago??? Pete at 4:56 PM today: On the "good side" of Lars?? Hmmmmm, that may take some doing! <grin>That "list" was back in the 40s, so there's no telling when the "Mules" kicked in (get it??). Anyway, as we've discussed over on the original Thread, a train with a name somehow adds to the "special" feeling one gets, eh Does for me! That topography looks an awful lot like New Mexico or Arizona from my trips through those states. We'll just have to wait ‘n see what Eric has to say.Thanks, as always, for stopping by in the mid to late afternoon "slot"! Doug at 7:32 PM today: And the beat goes on for our Illinois Connection. Appears as if you are pickin' up from where Lars left off. Isn't it just wunnerful being a home owner?? Of course it is - but there are times. <grrrrrrrrrrr> Surely hope this doesn't set you back too much in cash and good nature! Appreciate your taking the time to think of us! Now THAT sez it all. Have a COUPLE on me! Ring it Boris!! Lars at 7:33 PM today: Posted one minute after the barn weevil! Now you couldn't have planned it better, eh? So, you also had some difficulties with the ‘puter AND the Forums. Hmmmmmm. Crazy fer sure.I've had similar episodes ordering things for my bride through the J. C. Pe Happy Railroading! Siberianmo siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by siberianmo on Friday, March 23, 2007 8:14 AM G'day! The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #9A form of this was initially Posted on Page 118 of the original Thread Caveat: The information provided is NOT all inclusive and is reflective only of the periods mentioned. Here's another Passenger RR Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific (The Rock Island) Headquarters: Chicago, IL Mileage in 1950: 7,579 Locomotives in 1963: Diesel - 539 Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 26,690; Passenger cars - 646 Principal routes in 1950: Chicago-Omaha, NEOmaha-Colorado Springs & Denver, CODavenport, IA-Tucumcari, NMBureau Junction-Peoria, ILMinneapolis, MN-Kansas City, MOManly-Burlington, IACedar Rapids (Vinton), IA-Sioux Falls, SDKeokuk, IA-Bear Lake, SDTucumcari-Memphis, TNHerington, KS-Houston, TXLittle Rock, AR-Eunice, LAKansas City-St. Louis Passenger trains of note: Choctaw Rocket (Amarillo, TX-Memphis)Corn Belt Rocket (Chicago-Omaha)Des Moines Rocket (Chicago-Des Moines, IA)Golden State (Chicago-LA; joint ops w/SP)The Imperial (Chicago-LA)Kansas City Rocket (Minneapolis-Kansas City)Peoria Rockets (Chicago-Peoria)Texas Rocket (Ft. Worth-Houston; then Kansas City-Dallas)Twin Star Rocket (Minneapolis-Houston)Quad City Rocket (Chicago-Rock Island)Rocky Mountain Rocket (Chicago-Colorado Springs & Denver)Zephyr Rocket (Minneapolis-St. Louis; joint ops w/CB&Q)* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Rock Island EMD E8A #652 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: unknown) Rock Island Aero Train #2 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: Wade Calvert) Rock Island EMC E3A #625 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: unknown) Enjoy! Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo LoveDomes Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: northeast U.S. 1,225 posts "Our" Place reborn! An adult bar 'n grill for the discussion of Classic Trains! Posted by LoveDomes on Friday, March 23, 2007 11:53 AM Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!Ruth my deAH you are as loveRly as evAH and does me good to bask in your glow! Now, where was I???? Ah yes, a tankard of Keiths or me and a round for the house. Time for a Larsman special hero sandwich of ham, Swiss, mustAHd 'n buttAH with two large pickles from the barrel. Treats for the critters of course and a small jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris. Don't want him to think that the large jar is an everyday thing . . . By all means, keep the change! First off, I received an e-mail from BK (also noted that Tom got a copy) and he says that they've been away. In fact he sent it off from Edmonton. They've made the "rounds" for whatever purposes his Mrs. has (she is either still working or semi-retired, or . . .) At any rate, he mentioned some difficulty in getting onto the forums at the end of last week B4 they took off. Guess he found that leased aircraft, for he did mention the flight to Calgary as on the rough side with Lydia wondering if her knuckles would ever return to normal color! <grin> Passed on his regards to what's left of the "gang" here at the bar. Second, I think this is the 3rd week (again) of trolleyboy Rob's continuing absence. Last I recall, he mentioned something about taking a Via Rail trip to Toronto with his Mrs. just for the day. Didn't he take a week off or something? Anyway, haven't heard a thing since and no replies to my e-mail. Soooooooooo, guess Pete will indeed assume the awesome duties of Bar Chandler, that is if Cap'n Tom feels he's ready. <grin>Did anyone happen to notice the writeup from last night's hockey game up in Boston? Seems that the Montreal guys put it to 'em at the Gahden (or whatever it's called these days) and beat 'em with 5 unanswered goals. Bet that place was as silent as a morgue . . . The sports news is still all about Tony LaRussa and his arrest for DUI down in Florida. Hey! I'm not making light of it, he got caught where many of us simply didn't. But the crap I've heard ranges from "acts of contrition" that would make a brass monkey's head turn 'round to volunteering his time to community service and so on. Can you believe it??? Then there are those who seem to think he needs counselling and rehab. Yeah right, as if everyone who takes a snort has a problem. Sure, he screwed up and did so royally. Sound asleep in an intersection with his foot on the brake pedal and the transmission in drive ain't a good thing. Just a hair's difference between that situation and one far, far worse. I think the man said it right in his statement and now it's up to the courts to meter out the punishment. Tony is a good man and will overcome, in my oh-pin-yun. In looking through the contributions since my last, doesn't appear as if much has changed from whatever we call the "norm" at this joint. Used to be we had the Tuesday "theme" thing locked in by now, but it looks to me as if that's in the crapper, at least for a bit.Nice stuff from young James, which could just have easily been our next "theme." Northern Pacific is a gudun, for sure. "The Rock" from Cap'n Tom looks good too! Love the pix . . . A mighty fine road, someone once sang. One more brew, Ruth, then I'm heading over to the Manager's table to catch up on the ever present paper work . . . . <arrrrghhh> Until the next time! Lars pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Friday, March 23, 2007 5:31 PM Hi Tom and all.A pint of Holden's Mild to start with please RUTH, and the Steak and Fries for later..DOUG Real sorry to hear of the basement water problems,glad the new pump is working OK and I hope there was not a lot of damage.JAMES Many thanks for the first part of the Nothern Pacific Railway.It is interesting to read about the building of the line,I had not realised about General Custer and the Little Big Horn involvement. Looking forward to the next installment and the report of your Chicago trip.ERIC Enjoying your photo quizzes. As Tom has said Sweden I will try Germany or France, like the roundhouse in the background.Talking of France,one of their new Double -Deck TGVs built for the new, yet to be opened EST high speed line has set a new speed record for conventional trains of 343MPH.The overall rail record is held by a Japanese MAGLEV. There must be a lot of places where Route 66 runs along side a railroad. On Tom's and my Amtrak trip from St Louis to Chicago Route 66 follows the line for quite a long distance, although there is a new divided highway running alongside the old road.The Irish have stayed loyal to GM locomotives ever since they installed a GM 12-645E engine in their class 001 or A class. these locos were originally built in the mid 1950s and were rebuilt in 1968 to 1971. These locos are no longer in service, but some have been preserved.LARS Glad you could make it in last evening after the computer problems,The bride had some probs with the on line shopping, it certainly is annoying to do a load on the puter press the send and it disappears.Thanks for passing on BK's regards,hopefully it wont be too long before BK can enjoy a drink with us at the bar again. .Looks like I had better prepare for the Bar Chandler exam.I don't suppose we will ever find out what was inn the note RUTH passed to youI wonder what State the painting on the Rock Island book is in,it looks to me like the Mid-west although the title is in the South.TOM Enjoyed the Rock Island Fallen flag Encore.Perhaps they mave have some pictures of the RI in Missouri between Kansas City and St Louis at the library in the Universary at the rendezvous. I must admit I am undecided on the the Rocket livery on the diesel loco though,probably been seeing that great D&H livery lately.Idiot of the Week is a good one this week, perhaps they could get some traffic lights and train the deer to work the buttons with their antlers.It would be indeed interesting to know who is still finding the old Our Place and looking through the posts, it really is amazing the number of views since the start of the year and it does not seem to be slowing down, if only some of those who are obviously enjoying reading the posts would just call in and say HI at the bar.As to the 'hamburger' dont tell Eric but I believe it was made by the fair hand of BORIS, as H&H were a bit miffed about not having the fish 'n' chips, which were very good last night.Talking of I will have the Steak now LEON, a Bathams Bitter to wash it down, and then to make sure the bar stays well stocked for the track gangPete. « First«21222324252627»Last » SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! 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We'll call this Fallen Flags Extra!
While there are some differences between the Fallen Flags that I have Posted for Passenger Trains, there's no reason to do anything other than enjoy the names of these fine passenger trains!
Some Name Passenger Trains by Railroad in 1948
This list includes trains from North America only. This gives an idea of the number of passenger trains operating in Canada and the United States in 1948. The name trains have been listed according by railroad that they traveled over. In some cases just the Pullman equipment traveled over these lines.
Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe (AT&SF)
•1. Antelope
•2. California Limited
•3. California Special
•4. Cavern
•5. Centennial State
•6. Chicagoan
•7. Chief
•8. El Capitan
•9. El Pasoan
•10. Fast Mail Express
•11. Golden Gate
•12. Grand Canyon
•13. Kansas Cityan
•14. Oil Flyer
•15. Ranger
•16. San Diegan
•17. Scout
•18. Super Chief
•19. Texas Chief
•20. Tulsan
•21. West Texas Express
Atlanta and West Point (A&WP)
•1. Crescent
•2. Piedmont Limited
Atlantic Coast Line (ACL)
•1. Champion (East Coast)
•2. Champion (West Coast)
•3. City of Miami
•4. Dixie Flagler
•5. Dixie Flyer
•6. Dixie Limited
•7. Everglades
•8. Flamingo
•9. Georgian
•10. Havana Special (East Coast)
•11. Havana Special (West Coast)
•12. Miamian
•13. Palmetto
•14. Seminole
•15. South Wind
•16. Southland
•17. Sunchaser
Baltimore and Ohio (B&O)
•1. Ambassador
•2. Capitol Limited
•3. Cincinnatian
•4. Cleveland Night Express
•5. Columbian
•6. Diplomat
•7. Marylander
•8. Metropolitan Special
•9. National
•10. Royal Blue
•11. Shenandoah
Bangor & Aroostook (BAR) (added by siberianmo)
1. Aroostock Flyer
2. Potatoland Special
Boston and Maine (B&M)
•1. Alouette
•2. Flying Yankee
•3. Green Mountain
•4. Gull
•5. Kennebec
•6. Minute Man
•7. Monadnoch
•8. Montrealer
•9. Mount Royal
•10. Mountaineer
•11. New Englander
•12. Penobscot
•13. Pine Tree
•14. Red Wing
•15. State of Maine
•16. Washingtonian
Canadian National Railways (CNR)
•2. Continental Limited
•3. Gull
•4. Inter-City Limited
•5. International Limited
•6. LaSalle
•7. Maple Leaf
•8. Maritime Express
•9. Montrealer
&bull Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
G-day Tom and all present!
Ruth- I'm soooo glad to see you again. I haven't been here for a while so I'm going to start off with a coffee and a Turkey sandwich with the works. Thanks
Okay I am back and ready for a little conversation. Sorry for my longer absence than usual. I was getting things put and set straight around the homestead and at work.
But I'm back to have some fun. I will start off with the first page and work my way back to when I first left off.
Tom- Good to see you're still at it with the Nostalgia. This time on the New York Central. Sounded like a nice little ride and Hostess service too Thanks for sharing. Also really enjoyed looking over the names of some of those passenger trains. One such passenger train that I liked was with the C&NW. the Duluth-Superior Limited. I think of like that name. Also liked the Milwaukee's names too. Especially the Afternoon "Hi" and Olympian "Hi". Some pretty nice passenger trains in there. Thanks for sharing.
CM3- Interesting little article on the D&H S2s. Those little guys got around. I was even surprised to read that some were built to slug units. I would have never thought that since they're so small. Smaller than an SW1. I will have to read your article on the other page and see what you have there. But thanks for info given.
Lars- A very good piece on the Aero train and the history behind it. I've wonder, even with the shape of that thing, how it ever got up to speed. I thought the cab/locomotive portion sticking up above the cars would actually slow it down. But it didn't. Also interesting to see how Disney land and Zoos took the idea and made a close replica of it to run on there perimeter. Some pretty cool stuff. Thanks.
Pete- To bad the tram way no longer exists. Some pretty cool pictures too. To me they look like double decker buses on rails. Kind of cool. That could have been a perfect little 5-mile ride. I would have ridden it. Thanks for sharing.
Mike- Wow. Some pictures and an article to go along with it. Very Nice. The article was also a good one. Those rail barrens ruled with an iron fist. If they wanted something done, by gaud your going to do it. But with out them, where would the railroad be today. Mr. Loree seemed to know what he was doing. And he built a nice railroad. The Delaware and Hudson. Thanks for sharing.
Eric- I noticed your picture at the bottom of your post. That's is some really flat land. And you can see two train traversing across it. I am going to take a guess and say this is located somewhere in California since there is a mountain in the background. Just a guess. Great shot.
I will be back later to drop off an interesting article I found
Happy railroading
James
A pint of Bathams please RUTH and some Fish 'N' Chips for later please.
MIKE Interesting post on L.F. Loree who had the golden touch when it came to making money.Many thanks for the links to the great color photos.Very much enjoyed the links to the Irish Railways and for answering the Gauge question. The map on the first link showing the map of the demise of the Irish railway system since 1925 is very sad though.Even today though the Irish railways seem to have a charm of their own still, it must have been a wonderful experience to travel on those lines, especially the narrow gauge, in the 1920s and 30s.
Mike,s Railway History( any relation) is a great piece which I will return to.On one of our trips on the RPSI Irish steam tour, the day before the steam trip we had a tour around the Dublin area to places of railway interest, the transport were 2 preserved buses one of which was a ex Great Northern Railway bus still in the company's colours, simular to the one in the link.
ERIC I think Mike has answered the gauge question..I still find it strange that 5 ft 3 inch was chosen as surely most of the lines in the UK and those in North America were settling on the 4ft 8 1/2 inches. I wonder how much more it costs to make a Irish gauge diesel than a standard gauge one from GM, and did GM have a 5ft 3inch test track I wonder.
Was your photo taken in Arizona.
CM3 Enjoyed reading about the D&H diesels.They must have been a great sight in that livery, one of the best in my humble opinion. Many thanks for that link, it loaded OK and I have added it to my favorites. It explains why I have not seen a loco in the D&RGW livery lately as it says there is only one diesel left in those colors.
Glad to see you back in JAMES, how was the Chicago trip. Did you notice in the link to the Irish Tramway there was a photo of the Fintona horse drawn tram it lasted until 1957 and was always horse drawn for it's over 100 years existance, probably not by the same horse though.
TOM A super list of the Named Trains. The Pennsy alone having 78 of them. I guess the post war period must have been the golden era of North American rail travel a Classic age indeed. I noticed the GULL seemed a popular name with 4 of the roads using it. I guess the Missouri Mule must be a fairly recent name..
It is hard to think of any one else in the lead roles in My Fair Lady than Rex and Julie.I bet it was a mavellous show on Broadway.
Well it seems I have beat my boss LARS in today so I will make a good impression and make sure the bar is well stocked for the weekend, but first the Fish 'N' Chip , please H&H and a Bathams to wash it down with RUTH.
Pete .
Good evening Tom and friends. I'll have a bottomless draught, which you can set next to my new fangled laptop, and of course buy a round for the house. I picked the laptop yesterday, but improper set-up kept me off the internet. The Geek Squad realized their mistake, and now it's working just fine! There was another small problem yesterday too. My *** sump pump didn't kick in during all the rain we were having, and my basement flooded. All the carpet had to come up, and the padding especially was soaked. It sure is a mess down there. Anyhow, I have a new pump, and we're dry again, but have a lot to do to get things tidy again. Sheesh.
Moving along, I see that Mike really came through with D&H history and pictures, complimented by information from CM3. I need to get busy on the next segment of the article. Hopefully everyone will get answers to their questions as the article progresses. (I hope)
Quite a list of train names from Captain Tom. Great effort, to be sure.
Please forgive my hasty departure. I have to drag in the wet carpet that was drying on our driveway.
Really enjoyed that looooooooong listing of the named trains from our leader - nicely done Herr Kapitan and it surely brought to mind the reality of a past that is really gone-zo. Bitter sweet, huh
Leon, 'tis the Larsman with a thirst that needs quenching - how 'bout TWO Keiths, one frosty mug and two bottles will do! Nah, nothing to eat, but you can slide the snack trays down my way.
What a day this has been, what an unbelievable day. Let me just focus on the internet. The Mrs. wanted me to order "a few things" from her favorite department store (Macy's). So off we go to cyber land. As the Cap'n would say <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>. Couldn't get the thing to take the order, after going through all the "motions" of selecting this 'n that, going here 'n there, and so forth. Shopping cart was so full that I need a couple of pages. Hit "enter" and zappo - gone-zo - vanished - ka-putski! <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>
If that wasn't enough, I tried to check the bar and kept getting a message to the effect that "This forum does not exist" - or something like that. I could call up every single thread, but not ours. Every time I clicked on it, that message came up. This kept up for most of the morning and well into early afternoon. Not that I was doing ONLY that. But ya know how it is when this stuff begins, it becomes rather obsessive, dontchaknow! <arrrggghhh> <double arrrggghhh>
Then about 15 minutes ago, I tried to call up the bar and guess what? Here I am - go figure! <arrrrgggghhhh> <double arrrrgggghhhh>
On the sports front: How about Tony LaRussa???? That must've been one loooooooooong traffic light!
Hey, every guy I know has "been there, done something like that," so I'm not being judgmental. Of all the "personalities" in sports, he's the LAST guy I wudda picked for a DUI.
Read where the Blues got screwed big time in a game the other night. They had TWO goals taken away that were clearly "in" upon review by the Oh-fficals up in Toronto. Man oh man, calling the NHL a "garage league" does indeed have some merit. Awful.
Noted the return of young James to the group and he couldn't have picked a better 'slot' - mine! We're waiting for that "Chicago report" - but anything you come up with will surely be of interest.
Eric, sounds like May isn't going to work for Acela, I mean given the Rendezvous, etc. Perhaps we can kick this around when we meet as I'd love to take it up to Boston 'n return. A bit of coordination and who knows, we could rendezvous aboard like Tom 'n Pete do when the go to Kansas City.
Always like reading the "word" from Shane and I expect his Sports Report will be something to look forward to. Opening day sounds just 'bout right to me!
Hey Pete! You've never, ever been on my "bad side." Just wonder about that Brit work ethic from time to time. <grin> Oh yeah, I KNOW, you're retired and have earned the right. No dispute with that, mate! However, to love this bar is to be here not in Kansas City and places where you can't access the joint.
Sorry boys 'n girls, but I really have to check out. The Mrs. is on my case once again! It never stops. Oh what the heck - Leon, gimme one more, she can wait! I think a small platter of fish 'n chips should go down quite well too! <grin>
Ring the bell, Boris, time for a round on me!
What's this???? A note from Ruth behind the bar for MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Leon- I will take a coffee please. BTW: good to see you.
Well I see many are wondering how my trip was. It's was fun and its a long story. But I am going to leave that for tomorrow because I don't have a lot of time at the moment. But I will explain the whole story tomorrow.
I just came to drop off an article. This is 1 of 3 so enjoy.
The Northern Pacific.
The Northern Pacific was chartered on July 2, 1864 as the first northern transcontinental railroad in the United States. It was granted some 47,000,000 acres (190,000 km²) of land in exchange for building rail transportation to an undeveloped territory. Josiah Perham (for whom Perham, Minnesota is named) was elected its first president on December 7, 1864.
For the next six years, backers of the road struggled to find financing. Though John Gregory Smith succeeded Perham as president on January 5, 1866, groundbreaking did not take place until February 15, 1870, at Thompson Junction, Minnesota, 25 miles (40 km) west of Duluth, Minnesota. The backing and promotions of famed Civil War financier Jay Cooke in the summer of 1870 brought the first real momentum to the company.
Over the course of 1870, the Northern Pacific pushed westward from Minnesota into present-day North Dakota. It also began reaching from Kalama, Washington Territory, on the Columbia River outside of Portland, Oregon, towards Puget Sound. Four small construction engines were purchased, the Minnetonka, Itaska, Ottertail and St. Cloud, the first of which was shipped to Kalama by ship around Cape Horn. In Minnesota, the Lake Superior and Mississippi Railroad completed construction of its 155 mile (250 km) line stretching from St. Paul, Minnesota, to Lake Superior at Duluth in 1870. It was leased to the Northern Pacific the following year, and was eventually absorbed by the Northern Pacific.
In 1871, Northern Pacific completed some 230 miles (370 km) of railroad on the east end of its system, reaching out to Moorhead, Minnesota, on the North Dakota border. In the west, the track extended 25 miles north from Kalama. Surveys were carried out in North Dakota protected by 600 troops from General Winfield Scott Hancock. Headquarters and shops were established in Brainerd, Minnesota, a town named for the President John Gregory Smith's wife Anna Elizabeth Brainerd.
In 1872, the company put down 164 miles (264 km) of main line across North Dakota, with an additional 45 miles (72 km) in Washington. On November 1, General George Washington Cass became the third president of the company. Cass had been a vice-president and director of the Pennsylvania Railroad, and would lead the Northern Pacific through some of its most difficult times. Attacks on survey parties and construction crews building into Native American homelands in North Dakota became so prevalent the company appealed for Army protection from President
Good morning Captain Tom and all!!
Nice to sit down for a little bit. Leon, I think I would like a 1/2 pound Cheese burger tonight! With everything! Curly fries, please!
A rainy day and night in Phoenix, so it is nice to just sit dwon for a while. Kind of quiet day here today, but still railroad info to read!
Tom – The picture was taken between Holbrook and Flagstaff, AZ. BNSF line along old Route 66! I bet it is Juneau who has changed your habits so you aren’t a “night owl’ anymore. Right? Thank you for the list of Named Passenger trains! I have copied it! CM3 – The link works fine and I agree, it is a very informative and complete website! Thank you so much. I have bookmarked it! After checking that site I certainly would like to see your notebooks!!Thanks for all information on the D&H motive power! I love that kind of info! James – You are a little bit off, the picture was taken between Holbrook and Flagstaff, AZ. The mountains you see in the background is the San Francisco Mts, just north of Flagstaff. The railroad is BNSF. Thanks for the Northern Pacific article! Looking forward to the remaining parts. Pete – Yes, I consider the answer Mike provided being correct. I am not even going to try to guess what the price difference may be between an Irish gauge diesel and a standard gauge one. You are absolutely correct about my picture! Taken in Arizona (Interstate 40) west of Holbrook, on the way to Flagstaff. I will inform the Grand Prize Jury!Doug – Sorry to hear about your flooded basement. Can you really use the carpet again?
Looking forward to the rest of the article! Lars – Thanks for the round! A note from Ruth?! I just don’t want to know what it says, but I can imagine! I am stunned! I think that is a good idea, to discuss Acela at the Rendezvous!
*Idiot of the Week #8
I live in a semi-rural area. We recently had a new neighbor call the
local township administrative office to request the removal of the
Deer Crossing sign on our road. The reason: "Too many deer are being
hit by cars out here! I don't think this is a good place for them to
be crossing anymore."
From Kingman , KS .
STAY ALERT!
They walk among us .. and they REPRODUCE ..!!!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
As with sunrise ‘n sunset, one can always count on the arrival of the end of the work week (for many) - Friday!
So, time again to begin the day with our freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course a breakfast selection of a <light> or <traditional> feast from our Menu Board!
Been hearing some not-so-flattering "stuff" about Wikipedia lately. Of course, those reporting on it most probably do not understand how that particular resource is designed or intended to be used. As with most things "cyber" on surely wouldn't want to "bank" on the material always being "right on." As we've seen several times, most recently from Eric, there are mistakes and much room for improvement. So as is said, "Buyer beware!"
For anyone who wishes to research material over on the original Thread, use this URL for quick access as that site is rapidly fading into the abyss of Forum's history:
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/451/991587/ShowPost.aspx#991587
If you know the Page number, just insert it where "451" is and you will be directed to it!
Otherwise this URL will take you to the last Page.
Still is getting lots of "hits" though . . . . when we shut ‘er down the count was at 163,151 - check it out now, you'll be surprised!
A reminder: Anytime you wish to find that URL (above), just go to Page 1 of this Thread and check out the FIRST Post - it's near the bottom.
CM3 at 9:31 AM yesterday: You Sir perhaps "stumbled upon" one of the "mysteries of life" as you saw the Post that wasn't! How in the world THAT happened, we'll never know. I did NOT Post that named train list, but rather was trying to get it to come up as a PREVIEW, then all of a sudden my ‘puter locked up and crashed. Next thing ya know, I couldn't log on to the Forums, couldn't even get it to come up. Tried it on the PC and it worked, but I never saw the Post that you saw. Finally got the laptop to "work" after doing some "cleaning" et al. Just a strange, strange thing. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it - no matter the iteration!
As with the "flap" over Wikipedia, I generally shy away from "adding or subtracting" from someone else's endeavors. It surely is a go no where situation with so many "cyber experts" out there. However, I generally try to make sure that there's a caveat of sorts to indicate that "lists" and the like are not all inclusive, just to leave the door ajar . . .
Now having said all of THAT: knowing you and the keen eye you have coupled with the knowledge base, I'm sure yours is absolutely on track! (on track - get it??)
Thanx for the round, quarters and Post!
James at 11:53 AM yesterday: The man from Duluth has returned and did so with a most appropriate and inclusive Post. How were you to know that our Manager couldn't make it in for his "slot"?? Nicely done! So, how were things in Chicago???
Pete at 4:56 PM today: On the "good side" of Lars?? Hmmmmm, that may take some doing! <grin>
That "list" was back in the 40s, so there's no telling when the "Mules" kicked in (get it??). Anyway, as we've discussed over on the original Thread, a train with a name somehow adds to the "special" feeling one gets, eh Does for me!
That topography looks an awful lot like New Mexico or Arizona from my trips through those states. We'll just have to wait ‘n see what Eric has to say.
Thanks, as always, for stopping by in the mid to late afternoon "slot"!
Doug at 7:32 PM today: And the beat goes on for our Illinois Connection. Appears as if you are pickin' up from where Lars left off. Isn't it just wunnerful being a home owner?? Of course it is - but there are times. <grrrrrrrrrrr> Surely hope this doesn't set you back too much in cash and good nature!
Appreciate your taking the time to think of us! Now THAT sez it all. Have a COUPLE on me! Ring it Boris!!
Lars at 7:33 PM today: Posted one minute after the barn weevil! Now you couldn't have planned it better, eh? So, you also had some difficulties with the ‘puter AND the Forums. Hmmmmmm. Crazy fer sure.
I've had similar episodes ordering things for my bride through the J. C. Pe
The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #9
A form of this was initially Posted on Page 118 of the original Thread
Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific (The Rock Island)
Headquarters: Chicago, IL
Mileage in 1950: 7,579
Locomotives in 1963: Diesel - 539
Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 26,690; Passenger cars - 646
Principal routes in 1950:
Chicago-Omaha, NE
Omaha-Colorado Springs & Denver, CO
Davenport, IA-Tucumcari, NM
Bureau Junction-Peoria, IL
Minneapolis, MN-Kansas City, MO
Manly-Burlington, IA
Cedar Rapids (Vinton), IA-Sioux Falls, SD
Keokuk, IA-Bear Lake, SD
Tucumcari-Memphis, TN
Herington, KS-Houston, TX
Little Rock, AR-Eunice, LA
Kansas City-St. Louis
Choctaw Rocket (Amarillo, TX-Memphis)
Corn Belt Rocket (Chicago-Omaha)
Des Moines Rocket (Chicago-Des Moines, IA)
Golden State (Chicago-LA; joint ops w/SP)
The Imperial (Chicago-LA)
Kansas City Rocket (Minneapolis-Kansas City)
Peoria Rockets (Chicago-Peoria)
Texas Rocket (Ft. Worth-Houston; then Kansas City-Dallas)
Twin Star Rocket (Minneapolis-Houston)
Quad City Rocket (Chicago-Rock Island)
Rocky Mountain Rocket (Chicago-Colorado Springs & Denver)
Zephyr Rocket (Minneapolis-St. Louis; joint ops w/CB&Q)
Rock Island EMD E8A #652 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: unknown)
Rock Island Aero Train #2 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: Wade Calvert)
Rock Island EMC E3A #625 (courtesy: www.cvma.org - foto credit: unknown)
Ruth my deAH you are as loveRly as evAH and does me good to bask in your glow!
Now, where was I???? Ah yes, a tankard of Keiths or me and a round for the house. Time for a Larsman special hero sandwich of ham, Swiss, mustAHd 'n buttAH with two large pickles from the barrel. Treats for the critters of course and a small jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris. Don't want him to think that the large jar is an everyday thing . . . By all means, keep the change!
First off, I received an e-mail from BK (also noted that Tom got a copy) and he says that they've been away. In fact he sent it off from Edmonton. They've made the "rounds" for whatever purposes his Mrs. has (she is either still working or semi-retired, or . . .) At any rate, he mentioned some difficulty in getting onto the forums at the end of last week B4 they took off. Guess he found that leased aircraft, for he did mention the flight to Calgary as on the rough side with Lydia wondering if her knuckles would ever return to normal color! <grin> Passed on his regards to what's left of the "gang" here at the bar.
Second, I think this is the 3rd week (again) of trolleyboy Rob's continuing absence. Last I recall, he mentioned something about taking a Via Rail trip to Toronto with his Mrs. just for the day. Didn't he take a week off or something? Anyway, haven't heard a thing since and no replies to my e-mail. Soooooooooo, guess Pete will indeed assume the awesome duties of Bar Chandler, that is if Cap'n Tom feels he's ready. <grin>
Did anyone happen to notice the writeup from last night's hockey game up in Boston? Seems that the Montreal guys put it to 'em at the Gahden (or whatever it's called these days) and beat 'em with 5 unanswered goals. Bet that place was as silent as a morgue . . .
The sports news is still all about Tony LaRussa and his arrest for DUI down in Florida. Hey! I'm not making light of it, he got caught where many of us simply didn't. But the crap I've heard ranges from "acts of contrition" that would make a brass monkey's head turn 'round to volunteering his time to community service and so on. Can you believe it??? Then there are those who seem to think he needs counselling and rehab. Yeah right, as if everyone who takes a snort has a problem. Sure, he screwed up and did so royally. Sound asleep in an intersection with his foot on the brake pedal and the transmission in drive ain't a good thing. Just a hair's difference between that situation and one far, far worse. I think the man said it right in his statement and now it's up to the courts to meter out the punishment. Tony is a good man and will overcome, in my oh-pin-yun.
In looking through the contributions since my last, doesn't appear as if much has changed from whatever we call the "norm" at this joint. Used to be we had the Tuesday "theme" thing locked in by now, but it looks to me as if that's in the crapper, at least for a bit.
Nice stuff from young James, which could just have easily been our next "theme." Northern Pacific is a gudun, for sure.
"The Rock" from Cap'n Tom looks good too! Love the pix . . . A mighty fine road, someone once sang.
One more brew, Ruth, then I'm heading over to the Manager's table to catch up on the ever present paper work . . . . <arrrrghhh>
A pint of Holden's Mild to start with please RUTH, and the Steak and Fries for later..
DOUG Real sorry to hear of the basement water problems,glad the new pump is working OK and I hope there was not a lot of damage.
JAMES Many thanks for the first part of the Nothern Pacific Railway.It is interesting to read about the building of the line,I had not realised about General Custer and the Little Big Horn involvement. Looking forward to the next installment and the report of your Chicago trip.
ERIC Enjoying your photo quizzes. As Tom has said Sweden I will try Germany or France, like the roundhouse in the background.
Talking of France,one of their new Double -Deck TGVs built for the new, yet to be opened EST high speed line has set a new speed record for conventional trains of 343MPH.The overall rail record is held by a Japanese MAGLEV.
There must be a lot of places where Route 66 runs along side a railroad. On Tom's and my Amtrak trip from St Louis to Chicago Route 66 follows the line for quite a long distance, although there is a new divided highway running alongside the old road.
The Irish have stayed loyal to GM locomotives ever since they installed a GM 12-645E engine in their class 001 or A class. these locos were originally built in the mid 1950s and were rebuilt in 1968 to 1971. These locos are no longer in service, but some have been preserved.
LARS Glad you could make it in last evening after the computer problems,The bride had some probs with the on line shopping, it certainly is annoying to do a load on the puter press the send and it disappears.
Thanks for passing on BK's regards,hopefully it wont be too long before BK can enjoy a drink with us at the bar again. .
Looks like I had better prepare for the Bar Chandler exam.I don't suppose we will ever find out what was inn the note RUTH passed to you
I wonder what State the painting on the Rock Island book is in,it looks to me like the Mid-west although the title is in the South.
TOM Enjoyed the Rock Island Fallen flag Encore.Perhaps they mave have some pictures of the RI in Missouri between Kansas City and St Louis at the library in the Universary at the rendezvous. I must admit I am undecided on the the Rocket livery on the diesel loco though,probably been seeing that great D&H livery lately.
Idiot of the Week is a good one this week, perhaps they could get some traffic lights and train the deer to work the buttons with their antlers.
It would be indeed interesting to know who is still finding the old Our Place and looking through the posts, it really is amazing the number of views since the start of the year and it does not seem to be slowing down, if only some of those who are obviously enjoying reading the posts would just call in and say HI at the bar.
As to the 'hamburger' dont tell Eric but I believe it was made by the fair hand of BORIS, as H&H were a bit miffed about not having the fish 'n' chips, which were very good last night.
Talking of I will have the Steak now LEON, a Bathams Bitter to wash it down, and then to make sure the bar stays well stocked for the track gang
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