G'day Captain Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
Ah, Cindy my gal, you are a pleasant sight this fine day. Can't understand why anyone would let you stray too far from home - especially to a den such as this! <grin> I'll have a frosty mug of Schaefer if you please and set 'em up for the boys! Ring it, Boris!
I see things are perking along this mid-week day with an appearance from a past visitor - the man called red P. If memory serves me correctly, you are the RR engineer of the group, so that pretty much rounds out the experience level 'round the tavern by the tracks!
Some more dialogue regarding light rail from my "bookend" in Alberta I see. Man, you are on a roll with this, huh Not bad at all - for it truly is an interesting subject and always something new to latch onto. Good job, BK!
Leave it the URLMonsterMeisterMike to come up with those relevant "takeusto's" - nicely done! That last one is a doozy, fer sure, fer sure!
Tom, you appear to be as popular as ever, with those invitations to Ontario and Alberta. Now all you need to do is get 'em to fund the travel! Insofar as stopping by a tavern is concerned during the 2nd annual pig roast and rendezvous in St. Louis - I hope there's more than one to visit! St. Louis has always been portrayed as a place where the suds flow as free as the Mighty Mississippi itself. Is so
Received your email, Rob and concur with your thinking.
Enjoyed the PRR info from CM3 I'm not Shane - next up, how about some NYC Oh what I would give to have been able to travel the Broadway Ltd and the 20th Century Ltd as they raced to Chicago. What an era and what wonderful trains they must have been in their prime years. Nice stuff from Tom on the Pennsy as well! Enjoyed browsing that Url . . .
Had to find another source for my 'signature USA ribbon' as the "host" for the former one seems to have put the kabash on using it elsewhere. Don't get it - but oh well . . . .
Finally, good to see Doug as well - and of course the groaner of the day!
One more Cindy, then I gotta skeedaddle . . .
Lars
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house
Hey P, remember this one? Not bad, but the trees are too green
ftwNSengineer wrote:well while everyone is having turkey and watching football, I will be stuck on a train again and in case anybody is interested, here is the veiw from my office window
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02515.jpg
Board of Trade Building (tallest in Chicago in the steam era)
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02722.jpg
Edmonton
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/scenic/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1824169190&id=43
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/scenic/index_view.cfm?photoid=-682691053&id=43
OOPS
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=93825910&id=49
Mike
Hiya again Cindy another thermos of coffee and a couple danishes please, no not the prune ones they've been there since early june only one man was brave enough to even concider eating those.
Tom -So no RDC's to Deham eh No RDC's make Tom sad LOL. Don;t sell the "other" tavern short it may have it's own unique charms besides I don't think Pete would steer you wrong, I'm sure that the pub fare there is as diverse and tasty. We will have to enquire tio the Teutonic wonders if they may concider adding St George to their regular zepplin runs. Looks as though Boris will have to give his red stool back. P's back in town I see painting the town red as it were. Boris did you leave that can of paint out. I saw you giving Tex that CP Action red paint job for the grand re-oppenning of Our Place.Tom you know that you are always welcome to partake in the fun and festivities of the St George Arms, that welcome extends to your lovely bride as well.
Well time to get up off the ole butt. It's a lovoely sunny 75 today and the back 40 needs tending to.Anyone have a goat they aren't in use off at the moment
Rob
Good morning Cindy ma dear, you are looking quite lovely this morning. What's that ? Flatterery will get me everywher will it. I think I'll just stick to a #3 from the breakfast / brunch board, over easy with the eggs if you lnow what I mean.
Good to see da boss and the am regulars in so this morning
CM3- Nice run down on train 58 from the boss's fav line. I figure that any train giving manicures and football scores can't be all bad.One wonders why airlines ever "took off" Great selections for our morning musical montage as well. that ought to get the track gangs up and moving.No Boris don;'t clear the booths for a sqaure dancing contest Yes Tom the more it's different the more it's the same around here. LOL
Tom -So you actually lived in Melrose ? What a conincidence , I'm glad to hear that the tale was true, I never know when I read some of these things as they've come from such an old article that it has no real corroberation just the short anecdotes. Not nice to hear that the poor motorman et all had their run ended so disaterously however. Nice to know also that the girls will have aggredd to all comne back amd chip in from time to time. You and Pete will have to let us know if the pub in Shrewsbury is as good as the St George Arms.
Doug -Just a groaner only post this morning ? Oh well I did fire coffee out of my nose when I read the punch line so alls forgiven. I'll try to put up some less maudlin tales today. Glad you liked them, I figured that they would be more or less up your alley as they have come from an ancient book, The Trolley Car Treasury published in the early 50's no ISBN # on it folks. Wonderfull piece though I picked it up for $5 at the local hobby shop and it looked as though it was hadly read all the hard bindings are perfect. I think I was ripped off though the suggested retail was $3.95 in 1952 hmmm infaltion I guess
Tom, so what is the new way of doing things? By the way I love the picture of the PRR e units.
P
G'day Gents!
Ah the mention of my favorite RR from the past - the Pennsy! Was indeed a mighty fine road and one that will always live in my mind's eye.
A shot from a more recent iteration of The Liberty Limited . . .
If you like that one, check out: http://www.prrths.com/Army%20Navy/PRR_Liberty_Limited.htm
That talk of the NYC run up to Albany brings back some fond memories for me too, Lars! Took it as a "poor sailor" but always managed to have a great time to and from the Grand Lady herself - Grand Central!
I used to live in Melrose, Rob and had heard about that trolley disaster you wrote about - just never had the details. Quite a contrast in those stories, eh Poor Devils never had a chance in the explosion whereas the motorman who "lost" his rig - oh well! <grin>
Enjoyed the rundown on The Liberty Limited from CM3 - a train name that took on new meaning as the years passed on. Today it continues pretty much for the Army-Navy annual football game in Philadelphia. Nice work!
Conflict of interest with Bombardier Nah - how could you even suggest such a thing, Rob Well, someone has to run those trains and staff the cars! The way I figure it with organizations and people who revel in their newfound power - they probably had few toys when they were kids! <grin>
And the groaners continue on, pretty much unabated from Doug. <ugh> The more things change, the more they stay the same! Good seeing you this AM and enjoy the breakfast!
Thanx for the continuing Emails guys. I really haven't decided on the return to the way things were. However, it is hard not to see that many of you are holding true to the way we "do things" 'round the joint. That is appreciated and right now let's just see where we go . . . .
A reminder: We serve breakfast - brunch and lunch all week (now including Sundays!!)
We serve full meals on Thursday (fish 'n chips) - Friday (steak 'n pizza nite) - Saturday (steak nite).
Cindy and Leon will handle the bartending chores with the Gals of "Our" Place (Ruth - Ann - Lucy - Jemima) pitching in from time to time. Watch for the announcements!
Today - Cindy is behind the bar and will be during weekdays! Leon will resume his nightly chores on a regular basis.
Catch y'all down the tracks!
Tom
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. How about three "country" classics? We'll begin with "She's Looking Better After Every Beer," next we'll hear "It's Hard to Kiss The Lips at Night That Chewed My !@#$ Out All Day Long," and finish with "You're The Reason Our Kids Are So Ugly." I hope I am getting the hang of the fora and their peculiarities. BTW, I hate to see good pitching wasted as the Olde Towne Team did last night. Anyway, I don't think they'll be playing the Mets (or anyone else) this post season.
Anyway, it's good to see so many familiar faces, Along with most of you, I missed the old place and am glad to see that it's back up and going.
Let's do some consist information from the Great Tuscan Father in 1942. The "Broadway," of course, got most of the press, so let's take a look at Train 58, the eastward "Liberty Limited." The "Liberty" operated between Chicago and Washington, DC. It left Chicago at 3:20 p.m. with an 8:40 a.m. arrival the next morning in D.C. The "Liberty Limited" had valet and ladies' maid servie (including manicures), writing desk,and stationery, newspapers and periodicals, radio, terminal telephones, and baseball and football scores (in season).
Train 58 handled Chicago-Washington sleepers inclusding a 3 double bedroom/drawing room/buffet lounge; 14 sections; 12 section/drawing room; 12 duplex rooms/5 double bedrooms; 10 roometes/5 double bedrooms; 2 drawing rooms/4 compartments/4 double bedrooms; and a 2 master room/double bedroom/buffet lounge observation car. It also carried a diner and coaches.
work safe
Good morning one and all. I'll have two light breakfasts please. Certainly is great to see all the activity since yesterday, and some nifty reading as usual. Great to see CM3 once again, and read the comments from Lars and Tom. I guess we're not loving the new format so far. Enjoyed the light rail pix from BK, to be sure, but extra enjoyed seeing all the URLs of the Seaboard and wood-burning locos from Mike, as well as some very fascinating reading written by his father! Rob had a great day too with his tales from the trolley barn. Very amusing snow-removal story, and enjoyed the wayward trolley, then the trajic explosion bacause of a fallen case of dynamite. Unbelievable.
I must be off for the day, but before leaving .....
Three guys enter a disabled swimming contest. The first has no arms. The second, no legs and the third has no body, just a head. They all line up, the whistle blows and "splash" they're all in the pool.The guy with no arms takes the lead instantly but the guy with no legs is closing fast. The head of course sank straight to the bottom.Ten lengths later and the guy with no legs finishes first. He can still see bubbles coming from the bottom of the pool,so he decides he had better dive down to rescue him.He picks up the head, swims back up to the surface and places the head at the side of the pool, where-upon the head starts coughing and spluttering.Eventually the head catches his breath and shouts: "Three years I've spent learning to swim with my ears, then two minutes before the whistle, some jerk puts a swimming cap on me!"
WIERD TALES FROM THE BARN # 6 ODD TROLLEY STORIES PART 2
Well since this morning s found sveral funny bones here's a second installment for everyone to enjoy over their breakfast.
A trolley once inexplicably vanished for a few hours in Waterbruy Connecticut. The line there was a dead ended single track, and the operating routine was that each outbound car should wait at a turnout several miles from te end of the line until it's "leader" car came back in from the other direction. One night the retourning car didn't show up. After a long wait, the motorman at the turnout decided that the missing car must have broken down.He proceeded cautiously to the end of the line without catching a glimpse of the other now dissapeared car. Baffled he changed poles, flipped his seats over for the return journey, loaded up the few passengers that were waitng and headed back up the line.
The explination came later that night at the end of the line when the last passenger walked off the final run of the day.A somewhat shamefaced man emerged from the shadows, identified himself as the missing motorman, and asked his colleague if he knew where they could borrow a very long length of tow rope.He explained that, all alone in his car,he had absently gone careening of the end of the track at full speed.His trolley had veered off the road, crossed a field and embedded itself in some thick brush. He'd walked back to the end of the track, but was too embarassed to ask for help until there were no more passengers around.
Here's one more short one to mull over as well.
In all the history of trolleysperhaps no accident was as bizarre as the one that befell a Massachusetts streetcar on Sept,21,1904 . A car from Boston was rolling through an elm lined street in Melrose with 32 passengers aboard. it was a dark evening but the streetlights were off because the town had a " moonlight schedule"a thrifty habit of saving electricity when the moon was near full.There seems a possibility that motorman Winfeld Rowe may have glimpsed a widley waiving figure runninf towards his car from about 100 yards away. No one will ever know for sure though,because in the nextv instant Rowe and many of his passengers were dead or dying.
The front half of the trolley blew to bits in a tremendous explosion that flung car fragments and bodies high up into the elm trees. A 50 pound box of dynamite had been lying on the tracks, where it had fallen a few moments before from the tailgate of an express wagon. The expressman had discovered his loss and had come back for the box. But the trolley got there first, and 13 people died.
Good evening Leon I think a Keith's or two will do this evening I missed Cindy unfortunatly but I can still smeel her perfume so it's not all that bad
Mike -Hey no sweat, I don't mind the reading keeps us all on our toes eh ? Nice to see another tidbit of info from your dad's writings.
BK -Nice shots from the Calgary tubes too sir And yes your right of coarse any and all mention of lite rail or streetcars can and does catch my eye. One might say that it keeps the ole pole on the wire I haven't rode on the system in Calgary but I have sampled the Edmonton system a couple of times, the only light rail system in te US I've been on is the El in Chicago and bits and pieces of the MTA in Boston,Heather's rode on Buffalo's Philly's and a couple of the other's as well all with Charter groups from the CERA and our museum long before I met her.
CM3 -I think the team's finally complete, good to see you back sir !I've had fun fihuring out the various wierd and sundry nuances of the new forum as well, I suppose we shall all learn together sort of the blind leading the blind,at least we all have the advantage of a seeing eye ardvark and parrot
Tom -This new format does seem to have a few bugs doesn't it.At least they've divulged us of all the silly stars and polls, now if we could only block the JO's.Speaking of JO's that bunch on your transportation board seem erily familiar to the one's that keep scuppering the extenion of Go transit into the Niagara Peninsula. Here's another wrinkle to that story,seems that neither CN or CP want to crew the Go trains any more so they are tendering out to the private sector to provide crews.At the moment Bombardier is the leading candidate, seeing as how BBD builds all the Bi-Level cars one wonders how they got into a leading tendering position
"well thats what happens when you leave a can of red spray paint laying around."
Good Afternoon Captain Tom and all assembled!
Cindy, a gin tonic with a twist in a tall glass for my lady and I will take a Southern Comfort on the rocks - make it a double if you please. Oh, and of course a round on me!
With much to learn regarding these forum changes coupled with some difficulties experienced on PhotoBucket - my photos will be loaded directly from other sites. A no-no - but I am unaware of a remedy in the short term.
Some light rail from Calgary this fine day:
Photo credit: Kevin Lo, December 2001
and . . . .
Photo credit: unknown, July 2000
More at: http://www.lightrail.com/photos/calgary/calgary.htm
I must admit to enjoying the subject of light rail - brings back some fond memories of streetcar riding from long, long ago both in Canada and the USA. I'm sure that just tickles trolleyboy Rob to the core! Lydia and I have traveled the light rail systems in Edmonton and Calgary - great way to get around and to simply take in the cities.
An interesting insight from Tom regarding the St. Louis MetroLink system. I had read that when it opened in 1993, it was touted as the finest in North America. I do recall using it once - and did not find it "friendly" in terms of getting luggage to the airport. No storage and rather rude and somewhat ignorant passengers (at the time).
The trains were spanking new and I also recall reading that the route was along mainly existing right-of-way. In a most rare instance in my travels, I was presented with a copy of a light rail magazine that featured the system - do not recall the name of the publication - but it was replete with photos and engineering details of the system. Surely appeared as if it was done "right." Insofar as the power structure goes, I yield to Tom on that, as I have no insights there - other than to say perhaps a new broom is needed for a clean sweep.
Good to see the return of familiar "faces" now with coalminer3 CM3 in attendance. Nothing wrong with a period to recharge the batteries and perhaps these past weeks have given us all the time to reflect upon the things important to us in our leisure hours.
No point in repeating the commentaries regarding the postings from all the guys thus far - we surely miss those summaries!!! - but suffice it to say, surely seems like old times!
Hello to my fellow "bookend" and Horseman Lars! Yes, running in conenctric circles could indeed have one disappear in a most unlikely place! <grin>
Gentlemen, I am pleased to be amongst you!
BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!
Hi Tom and all
CINDY After seeing MIKE'S link to the Bull & Bladder (Vine Inn) the brewery tap of Bathams in the Delph I had better have a pint, and a round please.
The first weekday of the bar being open yesterday and my internet link went down, the e-mail stuck on loading into spamblocker, the bride had no luck fixing it although it said we had a good signal and the virus check showed no problem, anyway it seems to have sorted itself out today.It reminded me of something I read in a British Railway Magazine, aparently one of the new electric units was having a problem with the automatic doors so the computer was swiched off and back on again solving the problem, as the mag said "Rebooting the computer works for doors as well as windows"
Many thanks for the latest b,day wishes and with AL and CM3 joining the gang here again is great news.A busy day yesterday will soon have the Tilla full again and AWK and TEX will be glad BORIS has other things to occupy him.
Thanks for the comments on the pics, I will e-mail Alan and yes ERIC the gauge in Ireland is of 5 feet 3 inches but there was quite a lot of narrow guage lines, like the ones serving the peat bogs. Next Sunday I will post a couple of pics of some remains of the Tralee & Dingle narrow gauge in South West Ireland.
MIKE Thanks for the linksto the IRM. Great pics of the old Central Vermont Railway locos and the details on St Albans railroad history.
ROB #503 looks an interesting loco and it is great that better times are ahead for the TEE unit.I can just imagine the Super in the new plow causing havoc, I bet he was popular with the householders.
DOUG Like Tom I had not heard of wooden track before and looking forward to Big Lift part 2. The brakeman was very lucky to escape the sad fate of the loco crew.Still enjoying the jokes
LARS Thanks for the tips on the new format. As you say it is great to be back.As you say I too am ready to go on a train trip again soon I hope the track work in our area is finished soon.
BK.Great pic of the Edmonton car actully in the tunnel, the tunnel is a lot cleaner than the London Tube.
TOM Thanks for the insight into the new St Louis metro extension. As you say it would have made sense to use the existing trackbed to serve a big population. A lot of the new light rail in England uses ex British Rail ROW. A line in Scotland is being reinstated to serve Alloa, linking the town with the line at Stirling, it should open next year. It is said that house prices in the town are rising on the strength of the line reopening.
The line from the Airport to down town St Louis uses an old line.When we pay the occasonal visit to Busch stadium we use the Park and Ride and go on the Metro. We had some friends with us who were dubious about using the metro but after trying once said next time they go it will be the way they go. It shows if you can get people on the first time they will use it again.
Are any good bars in Shrewsbury where the Extension goes to, perhaps we could have a ride at the re-union.
CINDY the Bathams is as good as it always was so I had better have another.
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
I feel as though I am on the outside looking in - maybe some of you good people can help me. I can reply to existing messages but can't post a new topic under this thread. I contacted the good people at Kalmbach, but they were not really able to help me. IOW I can start a new topic but can't post a new message to an existing thread. Is there something I need to be doing with the computer or what? I like the new format, but its faqs are no help here either.
Thanks in advance - work safe
P.S. Looking at my post, maybe it did what I wanted it to, but I am not sure. God I hate the 21st Century!
Wierd tales from The Trolley Barn # 5 ODD Trolley Stories Part # 1
Well It's been a while but here's a new ta,le from the trolley barn an odd story that really did happen, hope it causes the giggle that it caused me when I first read it.
This incident happened on the NS&T very early on in it's existance.Trolleys have always had an affinity for peculiar accidnets, i.e. the Teddy Roosevelt Story .In 1906 a ridiculous mishap nearly bankrupted the fledgling NS&T.Snows too deep for ordinary plows and sweepers were repeatedly delaying the service on their intururban districts. There was no money for an expensive rotary plow that could easily cut through the drifts, but the roads superintendant wanted one so badly that he dreamed of it.
He begged the company officials long and hard, eventually they gave in and scrapped up the cash to purchase one.When the plow first arrived the super was like a tiny kid in the candy store. He even left strict instructions to call him at the first sign of heavy enough snow that the rotary would need to be used.The call came to his house at three in the morning a blizzard had deposited a huge amount of snow threatening to cancel the morning operations.The super hurried to the carbarn and road out like the triumphal calvalry at the controller of his shinny new roatary plow.The rotary munched its way through the drifts without halt all the way to the end of the line.There was an agitated message waiting for the super when he had reached the other end of the line however.The super had forgotten to adjust the discharge lever on the plow when he was clanking down the mainstreet of one of the towns.His wonderfull new plow had hurled wet snow aside with such vigor that it had smashed all the front windows of the houses along the main street, filling living rooms and parlours with wet melting snow !
enjoy Rob
Good morning Leon and all our intrepid band. I think I'll have a breakfast # 2 and the large thermous of coffee. Oh and a reefer load of meat and eggs will arrive around eleven, then we should be stocked for the forseeable future. Yes the speacial aged steaks for Friday's and saturdays, and the assorted fillets of fish for thursday's are in the load as well. !
Doug -I see you snuck in right before me yesterday afternoon, neat story on building that logging line with wood rails and bridges. One is truly amazed by the lengths railroad men will go to to get their trains and cargo's from point "A" to point "B". That story sort of reminds me of the Algoma Central Railway. Up until the Wissconcin Central takeover of them in the mid 90's they had several miles of pile tressels in the Agawa canyon line that floated. They were not secured to the bedrock but floated over the muskeg they crossed ! WC and subsequently CN have spent ( are spending ) the big bucks and are making conventional metal tressels in their places. Even though with tthe proper maintenance ( which they always got ) they were some of the safest bridges on the line.
Today's breakfast reading is of it's usual top notch variety. Nice to see things starting to settle in here at the bar, a 5x for that and for your efforts over yonder .That salvage story reminds me of the various locomotives of the BCR / PGE that eneded up in the drink of Seaton lake in BC, usually due to the train hitting a rock slide.
Mike - Some great photo url's for us again. I haven't worked my wayb through all of them yet but it's nice to have the ole urlmeister back in full form I think that eventually we will get back to an organized tuesday railway, I think though that the first couple of weeks we all need to get back into the routine of popping in , reading, and responding, but other than that there's plenty of railroads big and small for us all to explore and discuss oh and have some fun with along the ways as well.
Eric- Hmm I'm wondering if you may be right. I've never run mac but if they have gone just windows based then yes what you used to do wouldn't work now. Perhaps an email to Kalmbach, they may know of a way that you can post from mac and still get your pictures through.I know that when those TEE trains frist came over there was a bif to do about them. How fast how modern etc. Unfortunatly their running gear (trucks) never performed well on the ONR trackage which of coarse was heavilly travelled by frieght trains as well, likely the main reason why they didn't run long on the ONR. I notive in looking at the trucks on the two that I photographed that their trucks remind me more of a PCC streetcar ( light wieght small wheels ) than that of a mainline passenger train , most likely the biggest part of their problem as the mainline of the ONR is rough and not suited for highspeed service.
Tom -Forgot to mention yesterday, but yes seeing the TEE's in such a state was dissinheartenning for me and for Heather. However talking to the powers that be up there they are committed to refurbishing them cosmetically and giving them a bit more protection ( a roofed pavillion of some sort ) so all is not lost. I was actaually supprised as to how intact they were, the interior of the cab and the seating in the coach ( some of it anyway )
Good morning Tom and everyone, a <light> breakfast please.
Eric, I can tell you one thing about posting links here. There is no easy way that I know of yet. So far it's been a painstakingly slow process of "highlighting" a url and "dragging" it into the box that appears in the middle of the screen, one at a time, from the top of a "word document" that must be squished down to fit below the box. Maybe Doug knows a more efficient method. The old forum was so easy, just copy and paste the entire pile in one fell swoop.
Dave, before I forget, your last post in the roundhouse is a gem, thanks for typing of bygone days.
Seaboard Pix
http://www.toltecimages.com/trains/4500.jpg
http://www.toltecimages.com/trains/2633.jpg
http://www.toltecimages.com/trains/later%20images/2415.jpg
Tuesday in my mind should be theme day. We did most of the majors already but there's still the Erie and the Lackawanna. And of course the Central Vermont
Doug, thanks for the picture of the 12 wood-burning locomotives testing the Hartford Bridge. It's one of my favorite photographs. Here is the same photo with caption.
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=32990271&id=50
It's possible, even likely, that some of the locomotives on that bridge are pictured at these links
Joseph Clark
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1292146139&id=49
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1554895077&id=49
North Star
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=20567485&id=49
Lawrence Barnes
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=2092081749&id=49
Gov. Smith
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=23167603&id=49
Genesee
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=360638194&id=49
I. B. Futvoye
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=36601546&id=49
Rideau
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=405870976&id=49
T. M. Deal
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=5371106&id=49
Winooski
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=55965236&id=49
Ethan Allen
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=73144021&id=49
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1296827531&id=49
St. Albans Station
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=69420947&id=37
St. Albans Station wide view
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1011907384&id=49
St. Albans Station 1940s (my grandfather might be the engineer on that 4-8-2)
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1070650366&id=56
St. Albans Station sadly diminished without it's 4-track train shed
http://railfan.ca/miniature/St_Albans_07.09.05_0463.jpg
St. Albans Station at night
http://64.246.11.82/images/n/NECR-324-ST-Albans.jpg.52798.jpg
What follows now is something my Dad wrote in 1972, about the CV....
"At St. Albans you will see the old 4 story red brick office building. To this was attached, until 1963, a massive 4-track Train Shed (the concrete platforms between the tracks are probably still there). The Train Shed was 350 feet long, with 90 foot clear span, supported by Howe Trusses built by the master bridge builder, Howe.
The whole structure was put up in 1866-67. Why in the world would a town as small as St. Albans have a Depot so huge? It was larger than the Grand Central in New York at that time. St. Albans population now is say 10,000; in 1866-67 it was about 6,000. The reason was that St. Albans was the capital of the 7th largest rail system in America.
J. Gregory Smith, son of the founder of the CV, was a friend of Abraham Lincoln, and in 1867 he and Secretary of State Seward (who that year bought Alaska) concocted a plot to annex the Western Provinces of Canada into the U.S., by building the Northern Pacific Railway from Duluth to the Pacific, south of the Canadian Border, with branches that would extend to Canada.
In 1867, the Dominion of Canada had just been formed, with its capital at Ottowa, but with no land communications to connect and hold together the new transcontinental country. The U.S. had just finished the Civil War, and the Grand Army of the Republic, 2 million strong, had just been mustered out. Secretary of State Seward figured that Queen Victoria wasn't about to send an expeditionary force over from England to face that veteran army, in case she didn't like the idea of the U.S. taking over Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and British Columbia.
So the plot was to build an American railroad to the Coast, and inevitably it would siphon off all the freight traffic from the railroadless Provinces, and would deliver thousands of American settlers up there, so that in a few years the situation would be like Texas in 1845 -- and so those Provinces would fall of their own weight into the United States.
J. Gregory Smith of St. Albans, President of Vermont Central, started building the Northern Pacific, and was its president for 10 years. He lost out following the Panic of 1873, and the Northern Pacific construction lay dormant for several years, while in the meantime the Canadians got their own transcontinental railroad started, the Canadian Pacific Railway, which was completed to the Coast in 1887 and thus ended all notion of a U.S. takeover of their Western Provinces.
Smith in 1866 built a Depot and General Office Building in St. Albans that would be a worthy Capital of his railroad empire.
From his office on the second floor, southeast corner, he operated, in 1873, a Transcontinental System:
New London Steamship Line, from New York to New London, Conn.
New London & Northern RR, from New London to Brattleboro, Vt.
Vermont Central RR, from Windsor through White River Jct. to Burlington, Vt.
Vermont & Canada RR, connecting with Vermont Central at Essex Jct, Vt., running to St. Johns, Que., and also across Lake Champlain to Rouses Point, N.Y. (now only to Alburgh).
Ware River RR, from Palmer, Mass. to Winchendon, Mass. (now PC)
Mississquoi River RR, from St. Albans to Richford, Vt.
Portland & Ogdensburgh RR, from Rouses Point to Ogdensburgh, N.Y.
A steamship line on the St. Lawrence River, through the Great Lakes to Duluth, Minn.
Northern Pacific Railway, from Duluth, under construction to Seattle.
He also operated the Rutland RR from Chatham N.Y. to Burlington, connecting with the Harlem River RR to New York.
Had he succeeded in completing the Northern Pacific, he would have had the first and only Transcontinental System in the U.S., and he came close!
So that's the reason St. Albans had the huge depot. Elsewhere as you pass through St. Albans you will see the remainder of what, when I was a boy, employed 900 people in St. Albans alone, and gave it the nickname, the Railroad City."
Rob, I've added to your burdens with too much reading material too, sorry 'bout that. Take your time. It'll all keep.
Good morning Tom and friends! I better have just one light breakfast this morning, as it's time to do my morning biking commute. Nice to see Rob and Eric pop by. Viva la thread! Here's a little something to read with your morning papers:
Operation Big Lift by Diane and Riley Dunann – Sept. 1954 Railroad Magazine
Dark Clouds were scudding across the moon. Snow had softened the frowning cliffs that hung like parapets above the railway cut and the pale silvery Deschultes River. It was January 31st, this year. A fast freight of the Spokane, Portland & Seattle was burnishing the rails that curved alongside the boulder-strewn river bank. Now and then bits of gravel, torn loose from the hillside, peppered the fifty-seven cars and their ponderous three-unit diesel locomotive.
The train had come from Bend, Oregon, and was bound for Wishram, Washington – but would never get there! Near milepost 57, on a down grade some two and a half miles south of Maupin, Oregon, the brakeman riding the head end yawned and pulled out his watch. “Soon to be midnight.” He muttered to the fireman. “Guess I’ll go to the rear and look things over.”
Acting on his hunch, the brakie headed back at a leisurely gate over the swaying car tops. This decision saved his life. No sooner had he begun walking through the darkness than stark tragedy struck. A rock slide thundered down from the ramparts, tossing the 125-ton leading engine and a refrigerator car loaded with canned goods off the track and into the deep, rapid-flowing river!
A split second later, seventeen boxcars had jammed themselves into a crazy zigzag pattern: another one was stuck out over the bank, and a smashed hopper car was spilling coal along the track. It all happened too quickly for Engineer Ernest H. Barton or his fireman, Earl F. Sutton, to jump to safety, and when the swirling foamy water closed over the sunken diesel both men went down with her.
Pile-up. The morning after, SP&S salvage crews found a zigzag of 17 crumpled boxcars in the cut along the canyon wall.
The pile-up blocked the Oregon Trunk main line of the 1185-mile system, which comprises the SP&S, the OT and the Oregon Electric. No train could pass until the road was cleared. Grim-faced officials converged on the scene. Among them were E.H. Showalter, general manager; C.F. Thomas, chief engineer; J.L Monahan, superintendent; L.V. Hewitt, roadmaster; and Austin C. Anderson, division superintendent. They brought with them Fred Devine, a diver and salvaging expert from Portland, Oregon, and salvage crews and special equipment.
Besides reopening the line, they planned to recover the submerged engine, valued at $175,000, and the loaded reefer, and to bring up the bodies of the two victims for Christian burial.
At six o’clock on the bleak, chilly, gray morning of February first Operation Big Lift was started. Using a monster railway bridge crane, the men rigged up heavy cables over the Deschutes River canyon to hale in salvaging the locomotive, and about a mile downstream they strung a drag-line with hooks to catch even small floating objects.
Devine’s first job was to learn whether or not the bodies of Barton and Sutton were still in the cab. But before he could do that, he had to discover where the lost engine was. For this task he used two twenty-ton caterpillar tractors as well as steel cables and gear from his ship, the Salvage Chief – a ship that is famous for having achieved the impossible by pulling an 880-ton freighter off the Washington Beach shoals.
The salvage crews set up operations on the river bank, working on a motor highway which had once been part of the Union Pacific right-of-way. Back in 1910, some nine thousand men had been employed there in building the UP and the Oregon Trunk Line. This highway is situated on the east bank of the Deschutes. Over it also rolled a great many sight-seeing motorists from various points in Oregon, Washington and Idaho, bent on viewing the wreck.
“This salvage job has created more interest than any other operation I’ve ever been assigned to,” said Frank I. Verrinder, who had charge of the SP&S special agents policing the area. “Why, nearly a thousand people showed up here the first week-end!”
Cinder dicks worked the clock around to keep the curious onlookers from becoming entangled with the equipment that was strung all over the place. So large did the crowds become that visitors were required to park their cars a half-mile from the spot, walk the rest of the distance, and watch the salvage work from the hillside above the highway.
The Deschutes River, fed by icy mountain streams, had at that time a temperature of about 35 degrees. Narrow, deep, and running like a mill-race, it interfered seriously with diving operations. So Devine worked out another method to search for the lost locomotive. He took soundings from a bosun’s chair that swung out over the boiling rapids, and this is how he did it:
A loop of two-inch-diameter steel cable, shaped like a lasso, extended across the river by the fifty-foot boom of a railway crane, was dropped over the estimated grave of the diesel unit. It caught hold of the engine, as paint marks on the cable revealed later, but slipped off when the tractors began to pull.
Meanwhile, the refrigerator car had traveled about six hundred feet downstream. A tip of its front end could be seen above the surging water, and a single battered can of soup from its lading turned up in the drag-line. Railway officials shook their heads. They doubted that the car could ever be recovered.
Big Hook lowers salvager for inspection of freight car teetering precariously at river’s edge. A split second of disaster cost more than seven weeks of salvage operations.
The salvage men dropped another loop over the locomotive. This one likewise slipped, after it had dragged the engine five or six feet, with the mighty tractors and cable gear applying less than their maximum capacity. Days went by. The river fell a foot and a half. Still there was no sign of the diesel in the muddy current. SO the men dropped a third loop, and this one held fast on a test pull.
The engine had lost one truck and now represented about a hundred tons of dead weight. This fact, linked with the fifty-foot depth of the river at that point, and the speed of the current, well over 20 miles per hour, led the engineers to estimate that they needed additional pull of seventy tons.
So they rigged up three 350-pound “oversize snatch blocks” into the two-inch cable system. Then the gargantuan tractors walked up the 50-percent grade to a bench above the old abandoned right-of-way and hooked onto the steel cable. Each tractor could exert a twenty-ton pull on the drawbar. The first snatch block doubled this. The second increased the pull to eighty tons, and the third one, fastened to the heavy cable, ran it up to 160 tons. <end of part I>
Two women that are dog owners are arguing about whic
Good evening Leon, what's left in the snack tray ? Just peanuts eh guess I'll have to order the more solid consumables again too. LOL.
Mike -Glad to see you back onboard as well, as Lars said the more the merrier, nice to have all our "dependable" stools firing on most of their collective cylinders again.Thank's for the url help for Eric.
Eric -Those were similar TEE's as were used in Europe. They were imported in the 70's I think to be used on the Ontario Northlands Northlander Passenger train that ran from Toronto Union To Cocheran Ontario. They ran till the late 80's and were replaced by the cars and equipment they still use today ( old single level Go transit commuter coaches that wree rebuilt for intercity use )The F7's were rebuilt with caterpiller engines initially for this service have now been replaced with GP38's though three of the F's are still in NorthBay as back up power.
Lars-It is sad what the JO's did to those cars. Most of the TEE units were sent back to Europe,I'm guessing that they are still in use.When the ONR ran them they were maintained to the 9's these two units one power car and one coach were retained to become part of the North Bay railway Museum, at the moment just 503 the two TEE's and a CPR caboose are the extent of the museum. The City of North Bay is currently looking into constructing them a permanent home along thier water front. In the last three years they have put alot of effort into revitalizing theior water front, two carosells ( hand built )a ride on train layout they figure in another 5 years they new loom waterfront will be finished. From what we saw in July they have the makings of a class A destination.I'm glad to hear that the home front has improved a bit for you guys. Not to worry I shall not pry further, just wanted to put that out there.
BK -Nice shots of the "tube". I keep hearing wild stroes of Both Edmonton and Calgary's Lite rail both expanding with the end goal of conecting, I'm wondering if these wild idea's are just that or if they are really seriously looking at it. If they are it would likley be the worlds first lite rail interurban system !
Tom-I'm glad to hear that the extensions open, but good gawd gertie, isn't it amazing how much money the people in the know can blow Boondoggles like that are what kills the lite rail industry because the public only hear about the bad. I wonde if the people who spen the cash sit on any highway construction or car manufactuerer boards as well Perhaps the first job for inspector clueless to find out about. In all seriousness though I know how you feel about that particular bit of railway we have talked on it at length many a time,this type of missmanagement really PO's me as well. ( and likely anyone out there with half a head on their shoulders )Still I suppose any passenger railway expansion in any part of North America is something to applaud at the very least.I'm glad to hear that ole 20 fingers may soon be with us all once again as well,definatly the more of us on their stools the better.
Leon another round for the boyz if you will.
Good afternoon Leon, and I'll have my usual bottemless draught if you please, and set-up a round for the guys too! I've got oodles of Michigan quarters for the coal scuttle, so let's keep the tunes playin'.
Thanks for your kind words BK and some nifty Edmonton system information. I'll have to check your link later. Good job on Alan's pix yesterday sir knight Pete! great to see our propriator Tom in our midst. We missed ya! Thanks for the vacation pix Rob. Liked the 503, and felt sorry for the diesel. Hope it gets some needed attention soon. Howdy again to Eric and enjoyed seeing some of your 1984 IRM pix (courtesy of my man Mike in a later post). Tom hit the nail on the head with the format. Using "<>" instead of "[]" seems to be the problem. Thanks for taking an interest in our home contruction. Today they backfilled to the foundation walls. Next step is "flat work", which means pouring the basement and garage floors. We expect lumber to be dropped next Mondy, the home under roof 10 days later, and a move-in date of November. As Lars observed, I closed my roundhouse thread as soon as I knew "Our PLace" was back in business. This is the only place I need to be for my "stuff", and speaking of which:
Wooden Railroad by James O. Cavanaugh – Railroad Magazine June 1969
Wooden trestle features widely-spaced ties and rails made from three sections in order to bend. The far end of old structure has crashed into canyon.
You wouldn’t expect anyone to build a railroad with wooden rails in this century; and yet a group of business men and lumber workers with very little knowledge of railroading did that very thing 40 years ago in the Coast Range Mountains of western Oregon, about 95 miles south and slightly west of Portland.
The line was to stretch about 20 miles from the lumber-mill community of Horton to Junction City. Between those two places the only highway was a steep, crooked, one-way dirt road through heavily timbered country with deep ravines and canyons, wholly impassible in winter. The proposed railroad had to negotiate the same terrain.
The lack of an adequate highway made a rail line imperative. The right-of-way was not surveyed – mistake number one – and the grades were established with nothing more than a level – mistake number two. There were many other mistakes. The original promoter soon disappeared, leaving the local men to carry on.
Wooden rails were decided upon because steel was expensive and the sponsors already owned a lumber mill. The men had to saw out the ties and rails and lay them, the track being standard gage, with ties four feet apart on the trestles. This is the widest spacing between railroad ties ever recorded.
A grave difficulty presented itself on the first curve. The rails, measuring 8X8 inches, were so stiff that they could not be bent. But ingenuity saved the day. Three planks, laid and bent one at a time, were laminated. This innovation turned out so well that the original plans for long straight stretches were abandoned in favor of curves plentiful enough to make a good railroad man dizzy, the idea being to save the expense of making cuts and fills. On the surface, the change seemed to be practical, but complications arose at the end of the first two miles.
A locomotive, unlike any seen before, was constructed, along with three flatcars, to haul supplies to the rail head. The loco was an electric diesel made from two highway trucks coupled together, one entire truck being attached to the back wheels of another. Four wheels at the front guided the engine. The driver had no steering wheel; he really didn’t need one. Four more wheels at the rear, connected to the engine, provided motive power. The engineer rode in a cab much like that of a motor truck and he used standard automobile pedals and levers. Each wheel was equipped with a wide rubber tire and an iron flange to keep the trucks on the rails.
Alas, that contraption couldn’t get around sharp curves! Obviously the sponsors hadn’t planned the entire project down to the smallest details in advance of construction. Rugged men, these. They tackled each problem as it appeared. This particular off-beat situation was remedied by giving the engineer a differential so that the wheels would turn on the outside faster than the others on the inside.
At last the railroad was developed to the extent that the train could deliver supplies to the working crews. Inasmuch as the sawmill stood at Horton, construction had started at that end, the most rugged part of the country, and pretty soon it was necessary to build trestles. The timbers were much lighter than they should have been – so much so, in fact, that one very high trestle quivered like a bowl of jelly when the locomotive passed over it.
The engineer was a practical man. He did not crave the immortality that comes from dying with his hand on the throttle. When he reached the shaky bridge, he throttled down to very slow speed. Then he jumped out of the cab and ran down to the bottom of the canyon and up the other side. By so doing, he arrived at the far end of the trestle in time to swing aboard the locomotive again and pursue his perilous way down the mountain side. Apparently he hadn’t thought about what might happen if the bridge collapsed and dropped the locomotive when he was on the floor of the canyon.
Heavy wooden cleats spiked to the ties on the outside of the rails kept them from spreading. These cleats were spaced several ties apart, which may not have been good engineering but was economy. Dollars were getting scarce. While the cost of laying wooden rails was moderate as compared with steel rails, the upkeep was another matter. Rainfall is heavy in that area. Dampness brought rot at the point of contact of tie with rail and cleat. As wear and rot took their toll, the rails were to be turned upside down, but this solution was never attempted. The project didn’t last long enough for decaying wooden rails to be a real problem, to say nothing of replacement. Neither ties nor rails were treated.
Backers of the project were told that two trainloads of logs or lumber would be hauled to the summit of the mountain and coupled together for the downhill pull to the mill at Junction City. Such a plan was practical enough, as the heavy grade was too much for the locomotive to haul more than a few cars to the mountain top Junction City residents were assured that the project would be completed in 90 days. This was an honest estimate, but at the end of two years the railhead was still short of the Southern Pacific tracks at Junction City where a permanent mill was to be built. Two more miles had to be built, but never were.
If the line had been able to reach Junction City and deliver logs or rough timber there, a certain amount of prosperity would have resulted. But two years are a far cry from 90 days, and the peoples’ faith was getting as tremulous as their high trestle.
One of the town’s business men had bought a mill on credit. When the railroad project failed in about 1931, the mill-owners reclaimed their property and the business man lost his shirt. Afterward, the bridges sagged like tired accordions and collapsed to he canyon bottoms. The tracks, overgrown with brush and small trees, slowly rotted away, hiding what little was left of America’s last wooden railroad.
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Sounds nice, huh Didn't think I'd be saying that again . . . as with Pete's comments from yesterday.
Don't know what direction we're going to take 'round the joint, but this is for sure - The Bar is Open! Let's revel in that and make the most of our experiences here at Tom's saloon by the tracks.
Take heart Eric, these new fangled "innovations" of Kalmbach's will work out. I too have been a bit confounded and confused by the "features," but moreso at the lack of help in mastering them. One thing though - I use the "tool bar" right above the "box for inputing a message" when it comes to bold and italyics - as Tom said, just hi-lite the word and click what you want. It works! Most important thing though is to have you amongst us ! Glad to learn that you are still interested in our Spring Rendezvous in St. Louis.
Hey guys! I'm not trying to appoint myself as anything other than a faithful customer here at the bar. If Tom needs help and my time is open - I'll surely give it a try. Things in my personal life have stablized just a bit - still a hospice at home - but the stress of it all has slackened considerably. The important thing is that our loved one is as comfortable as possible in an atmosphere of caring. We're blessed that we are able to provide this help.
Got a kick out of BKs comments yesterday! Still a butt-kicker, huh Man oh man you wudda been quite the shipmate in "my day"!! Then add Tom to the mix and the three of us would have made the Barbary Pirates look like a Walt Disney production! Don't know what it is with some guys who think that throwing fuel on the fires helps anything at all. Anyway, glad you didn't ruin a good pair of trousers!
Really some good stuff posted yesterday and thanks for the comments on my meager selections. No doubt those are posted elsewhere on these pages, but thought they fit the mood quite well.
Never saw that type of stuff, Rob and I agree with Tom - sad to see such things fall into disrepair. Must be the "snipe" in me - for enginerooms and engines are to be maintained to the highest level of operating efficiency and cleanliness is where it begins! Glad you made it back - too bad about the Keiths! <grin> I'll spot you one when you're ready . . .
Thanks for picking up on the "new idea" for Sunday, Tom! If the guys like the breakfast/brunch/lunch format on Sundays - let's go for it! I'll "Chef" and try to fill in best I can to keep the strain off others. And as you wish - the bar will be CLOSED as usual - just the food service opened.
Interesting shots from the Olde Country, Pete and your mate "done good." Why not get him to stop by the joint, huh Seems like we "know" him through all of those fine pix he's sent you. Isn't it nice to be back in business
That rundown on the happenings in St. Louis reminds me a bit of some JOs 'round these parts who had great aspirations for our S.I.R.T. right of way too - fortuantely, they crawled back into the woodwork from whence they emerged. Always someone who has a "better way" of doing things, huh My thoughts, common sense prevails and don't mess with it if it is operating properly! <geesh>
Hey Doug - nice touch with the stuf you provided us yesterday. I see you closed up your thread too. Must be serious about remaining in this grand old saloon, huh
I'm meandering all over the place this morning - which is nothing more than a stalling tactic. Today my Mrs. has all kinds of "plans" for ME - which means I'm outta here PDQ. <ugh> B4 leaving though - let me have a "quickie" JD on the rocks, Leon and a round for the guys - ring it Boris!
If not later, certainly tomorrow!
back Mike! Just caught your post! Now we have 9 intrepid souls on board!!
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.
Count me in. And welcome back Tom. It's good to see Rob's resolute refusal to give up pay off.
Eric, if I may be so bold...
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Happy Birthday Pete
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