Good evening Tom and friends. I'll take a hot buttered rum on this cold and windy night, and buy a round to warm everyone's bellies. Lots more theme material to read, thanks to Tom, CM3 and Pete. I'll have to get to it later, as I have a continuation to submit, and then see how much more typing I can get away with tonight!
The Railroad Navy by David Marshall, Aug. 1959 Railroad Magazine
Huge float-bridges are part of railroad navy. This one at Bay Ridge in Brooklyn section of New York City is owned by the Long Island Rail Road and the New Haven. A similar structure at Greenville, N.J., is operated by the Pennsy.
It was the ironic triumph of passenger ferries that they built up thriving communities across the water from big cities - and some of them met defeat at the hands of those same communities, which had since grown rich enough to build tunnels and bridges.
Today the old passenger-train ferries are but a memory. They could not live in the same world with competitive bridges and tunnels. Their final disappearance from the yellow flood off San Francisco Bay jolted the city that had once been the "ferryboat capital" of the world. As recently as 1930, in fact, fifty ferry boats were operating on sixteen different routes across the bay or the Golden Gate, and during that year alone they carried forty million passengers and six million motor cars in and out of San Francisco.
But for New York the demise of the Erie ferries was a little more than a newspaper story. For months the Erie had been running its trains into and out of the Lackawanna's terminal at Hoboken, N.J., and Erie commuters had grown accustomed to crossing the river by Lackawanna boats. Doubtless, though, many an oldtimer felt a nostalgic pang over the fact that the Erie ferry-house in Jersey City, well and effectionately remembered, would soon vanish.
The newspaper accounts mentioned an old gray and white seagull known as Marmaduke, who maintained a lone vigil at the Jersey City ferry-slip, and whose life mission apparently was to scream at arriving and departing boats and harass the crews with a torrent of invectives.
There's an old tradition of the sea - and New York is forever a salt-water-town - that gulls embody the souls of men returned to the scenes of their misdemeanors. By that token, at least one Erie captain is mighty sure that back of Marmaduke's screaming and wheeling was the troubled spirit of Jim Fisk, who, just under a century ago, robbed the Erie in a big way and carried his loot across the Hudson to New Jersey - one million dollars packed in a suitcase! On that occasion Fisk crossed the greenish-blue river in an Erie ferryboat.
As old fleets go, new fleets appear - and today's most interesting one is the tough squadron of 33 vessels that the Southern Pacific, a year or two back, threw into its battle with the Great Salt Lake. Second only to the Dead Sea of Palestine, famed in history and legend, this lake is the saltiest body of water on earth. The tugs, of necessity, were built solidly to combat the corrosive salt as well as the hardness and weight of the water.
The rest of the lake fleet are earthmovers - two different types of glorified barges, both of the heaviest construction. Their purpose is to help build the huge causeway that's to replace the railroad's 13-mile wooden trestle across a narrow part of the lake.
One type of barge carries 3,600-ton load of rock which, when her bottom drops out, is discharged straight downward. The bottom is a system of trapdoors that fly open all at once when the craft is carefully potted. The tonnage drops - in the proverbial "nothing flat" - while the vessel herself shoots upward nine or ten feet!
Some earth-movers are useful only in deep water. After the sub-surface rocky pile-up has risen to within fifteen feet of the surface, the other type of barge takes over the job. Type number two carries a much smaller load, all on her flat-top deck. She also carries bulldozers, which go rooting up and down and across the deck like maniacs, shoving her cargo of rocks over the side.
It's a bit nerve-wracking to watch the bulldozers. They get back of a huge mass of earth and rock and muck, full-power. As the rubble goes overboard with a mighty splash and resistance ceases, the bulldozers inevitably spurt forward to stop suddenly, as a rule, with their blades three or four feet over the edge! Sometimes they even overlap the side by a foot or two.
But the operators don't worry. They, too, are railroad marines. They tell you that, after all, only one bulldozer has ever followed the rocks all the way over the side into the saline water of the lake.
Not long ago the Reading Railroad called in a naval architect to see what was wrong with its fleet of six tugboats on the Delaware River. The expert worked out the cost of basic repairs at $900,000 - and by "basic repairs" he meant only those that the vessels would need to keep their Coast Guard licenses. But all six boats were "repaired" with four new ones.
So the Reading's Philadelphia fleet was reduced numerically by one-third. But the shrinkage was more than offset by a threefold gain in the fleet's effectiveness. All six of the ancient boats, by operating 24 hours a day, could finish nicely an average day's work of transferring 300 freight cars across the Delaware, chiefly between Philadelphia and Camden. But the four new tugs can move 300 cars in exactly eight hours, and by working a little overtime in the heavy-traffic season they can prevent the piling up of freight that used to occur in the boatyards whenever the daily workload ran above average.
The important thing about the Reading fleet is not that it has grown smaller but that it is stronger and is three times as useful as it was before. To get the best service out of its tugs, the Reading also blew itself to a whole new complement of much bigger - and therefore fewer - carfloats. At latest reports, they are doing rather well.
Nor is the Reading's experience unusual. A year or two earlier, in New York Harbor, the Lehigh Valley likewise had replaced its six tugboats with four, with similar results. The four are doing three times as much work as the six did. And that story has been repeated on the great Lakes and on the West Coast as well as in the East. It's the most significant fact about the railroad navy today.
And there's another point: If the workload were not increasing, would the railroads - in the two examples given - have followed a 4-for-6 replacement formula? It follows, perhaps, that at least in the area of freight transportation the railroad navy is prospering.
Underwater railroading: H.J. Herbert, a diver and B&B helper on the Louisville & Nashville, is sent down periodically to check for damage to sea-washed timber trestles caused by severe varieties of wood-devouring marine pests on Gulf Coast.
G-day Tom and all present.
Wow! many good pics and articles on the Boat trains tonight.
Leon- Make it a coffee please.
Mike- Your Presidential pictures were really cool as always are your photos. I was looking closer at the EP-3 and I just realized that the whole truck assembly was used under the GG-1 even though it did say so in the article. That's pretty cool.]
Eric- Glad you like the EP-3 article. Iy was cool to read about it. I really have never known a lot about this locomotive and this was the first time I had taken the time to look it up.
I heard that joke from somewhere.. just don't remember. But you could use any combination of football players.
DL- your article on the boat trains was good. i also liked the pics along with it. Nicelydone my friend. Thanks.
Barndad- Your "dos" articles on "The Railway Nazy" were really good. Throughly enjoyed reading them. The pics were great also. Keep it coming! BTW: Glad someone liked the joke. I know it was mean in someways but I thought it was funny.
Tom- Thanks for the update on the Kansas City station. Glad you pinted that out. But I still have to say that it had to be one heck of a job to restore it to it's fame and glory. What a task.
Your interesting looking Bilevels caught my eye. I have never seen a viewing platform on them before. That is certainly new to me. It would be quite a experience to go rushing down the tracks and be standing out on that at the same time. Cool Pics! Thanks.
The joke... Well I have heard better jokes. But it was a joke none-the-less. But ya, better not go in to comedy on that one. It might kill me!
Pete- Good History on the North Western Railways shipping. I also enjoyed reading about that. Liked the photos of the different boats on the website. Some pretty cool stuff. Thanks.
CM3- Well. That was actually really informative. It was a great play along. The Fall river line URL was great. That was quite fun answering the questions and learning a little history at the smae time. Great website!
Now time for some pics! The Theme of the day!
Photo from: www.semg.org.uk/misc/named_10.html
This train is going to beloaded on to a boat and then transported to South America.
Photo from:www.semg.org.uk/misc/named_10.html
It even says on the fromt of this one where it is transported to by Boat. This one gets transported to South America as it says in the description on the website.
It's quite a sight to see a train being transported by water. Thats actually really cool.
Happy railroading
James
Hi Tom and all.
A round please LEON, I hope everyone enjoyed the Boat Train day as much as I have.
I have managed to put most of the books from England away and have found a closet where hopefully a couple of boxes will be undetected for a while.
JAMES Glad you liked the K.C. Union station info.As seen in Mike's post the EP3 were large locos.
MIKE Thanks for the links,.Great pic of the boat train.
ERIC. Glad your problems with the forum seem to be over. The pic enlarges just fine.I would like to hear the sound that German 2-10-2T out about 25 MPH.
DL Great post with wonderful links. It reminded me how good the British Railway posters were in the 50sIn the Southampton Boat Train link it featured West Country Light Pacific # 34007 Wadebridge, it must have been a good loco to be picked for the Ocean Specials. I see 34007 has just been restored to steam for the first time since the 60s.
Do you know what is happing to Dover Marine station at the present?, and I believe a few years ago there was a day of steam specials on the steeply graded Folkstone Harbour branch, unfortunatly I did not get to travel on them.
Great pics of the Southern 3rd Rail electrics, the HA on the last trip had been superbly cleaned for the occasion, and I think that is the first colour pic I have seen of those Pullmans in the reverse livery.
Enjoyed the journey on the ferry through Newhaven.
DOUG I believe in the UK it is illegal to use a mobile phone while driving. I do think it is getting worse lately. In the bad weather this weekend the was a car going by with someone on a mobile, I shudder to think what would have happened if they had hit a patch of ice, this when it was advised not to drive at all. The second was a lady tring to park a SUV in a parking garage with one hand on the wheel the other holding a phone to her ear, It was like something Monty Python dreamed up..
On to much better things, Many thanks for the two posts on the Railroad Navy from the Railroad Magazine were very informative and entertaining,great story of Marmaduke the Seagull and one can only admire the skill of those bulldozer drivers. I seem to recall seeing a picture of some boxcars that ended up in the water.
CM3 I saw a fair bit of the WV verses Rutgar game and it certainly was an exciting finish.
I see the NH Fall River boat trainhad its name a year before the Irish Mail.Many thanks for the post and the links.
I cant get the first one as it says the page cannot be displayed but the second one really is fun( I surprised my self how well I done) .
TOM What a great idea it was to pospone the Boat train day for a week last Tuesday. I though I had a post on the boat trains that left Heysham Harbour in the WP but I can,t find it now, oh well perhaps we can have a boat train 2 some time next year.
I think the Denali Star is keeping the boat train alive. The Essex steam line in Connecticut connects with the boat for a short cruise, and the Lakeside & Havernthwaite preserved steam railway line in the Lake District of England connects with boats on Lake Windermere. There seems to be something special about riding the train to catch a boat.
They certainly are some fantastic cars on the Alaska RR
Glad the TV thing turned out OK in the End.
Well Tom there is plenty of railroad literature here now to read if you come to visit.
I have found this pic of the Irish Mail
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/6gparttwo/46150jpnew.jpg
I see James has called in so I will have another and read the post.
Pete.
Good evening Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!Leon, I'll just have a black cup of coffe tonight. Oh, do you? Okay, then I would like a fresh Cheese Danish with my coffee!Boat trains from different countries, from both sides of the Atlantic! A lot of interesting information. DL – Interesting info about Boat Trains! Some really nice pictures to look at! I found the Lord Nelson class locomotives having a very different look! Was that a common class in UK or specific for the Southern Railway?Doug – No, you are right. Horses don’t mind doing their business in front of humans, but you know how humans are.
Interesting article about the Railroad Navy. I wonder how many vessels that are owned and operated by railroads of the United States and Canada today? I guess very few, if any. The answer is (kind of) provided in the second chapter about the Railroad Navy.I feel sorry for the poor snowman, now just a bucket of water. Reminds med of one of my teachers in high school, he used to say that a human being is made out of two buckets of water and one sack of salt. Tom – I thought the picture of St. Louis Union Station was the right one to use as a test for “Our” place. It’s too bad if they remove those few tracks at the station. I don’t remember if there was three or four short tracks in place in 1993. Alaska Bot train! Real nice Super Domes! It certainly qualfy as a Boat train!Pete – More Boat trains! Interesting way to sync the time at all stations by sending a watch all the way from the Royal Observatory in Greenwich to Dublin! Too bad I don’t have my slides from Greenwich scanned yet. That was an interesting visit.About cell phones and driving. If you see someone driving, drifting from side to side in the lane it is usually because of one of two alternatives. The driver is drunk or is talking on the phone! CM3 – Interesting that they had a steamers going between Newport and New York. Wasn’t a train ride all the way faster?James – I guess Milwaukee never had any boat train, did they? Also in the old country (Sweden) did they have a few boat trains. Personally I remember one of them. It was running between Stockholm and a small town, Nynäshamn, 33 miles south of Stockholm where it connected to a boat/ferry to the Island of Gotland in the Baltic Sea. Today they are running regular commuter trains instead, to and from the ferry.
The picture below is from the early 1900's.
Eric
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.
Harry Truman was probably the last President who preferred to ride trains. Ike liked to have his aircraft on command and he liked to have his interstate highways fast and smooth. By 1960 it was going to be the jet age anyway. Too bad. We can't undo a half century of progress. No more free air at the gas station.
A boat train in Oregon
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a08000/6a08900/6a08933r.jpg
Old Colony Railroad
http://www.ahrtp.com/HallofFameOnline2/images/OldColony48roundhouse.jpg
http://www.kellscraft.com/bostonillustrated/bostonillust096.jpg
http://www.frpd.org/images/historical/FRWharfPrint.jpg
Fall River Line
http://www.sailsinc.org/durfee/cdpictures/fallriverline20.jpg
http://www.sailsinc.org/durfee/cdpictures/fallriverline38.jpg
http://images.nypl.org/?id=482834&t=w
Erie-Lackawanna
http://images.nypl.org/?id=482557&t=w
http://images.nypl.org/?id=482554&t=w
http://algomacentral.railfan.net/images/Oldies/EL_813_T.jpg
M7 0-4-4T at Southampton
http://www.mikekemble.com/trains/trains/train7.jpg
Southampton passengers
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/11200/11212r.jpg
Pere Marquette
http://members.aol.com/carferry/pm217199c.jpg
Mike
Well good evening Leon and everyone else. i know I haven't been around sorry folks duty calls,this is the first time I've actually had to sit down and read and in fact respond to anything. Just the time of year. not to worryLars,the inclemint weather missed me entirly, all the storm damage was north of Toronto up in cottage country.I may well be sporradic for the rest of this month, at least until after the holidays, our stores doing record numbers ( along with the entire company ) this year, looks like I'll still have a job next year <grin> <wink>
I'm glad to see that things are still hummiong along here, small in numbers but gigantic in intent and info, lots of great stuff in the four pages since I was last here 5x for all of you,thanks for keeping this a fine shelter in the murky sea's of the forum ( fitting given today's theme )
Tom-As always you are the glue that bind us around here, and I do feel quite bad for not being able to help out more this past week,allow me to offer up several sacks of back pay to purchase several rounds for the gang this evening and into tomorrow. Loved the vancouver stations, to finer looking buildings one couldn't ask for. great theme info on the Alaskan boat trains as well, nice to see a new theme day running so well this late into the holiday season,we may not need to go all encore all the time this december
DL & Pete -Wonderfull onfo on the boat trains of England gents truly top notch stuff , a credit to this sight to be sure. I have to say that I did appreciate reading about the Manchester tramways that the two of you were discussing several days ago,and you were right I did indeed enjoy and appreciate the info x5
doug-Both parts of the railway navy were right on the mark sir wonderfull ongoing contributions from you this week as well. i particularly enjioyed the shots from inside the barns at the IRM. You folks do truly have a jewel on your hands there in the form of one fine museum
james-A young man the sunday EP3 article was another fione piece of work, on one of the more unusual of the electric juice jacks.Some things look wonderfull on the paper the draftsmen create,just the working in real life tends to not always live upto expectations. Nice shots for today's theme as well , you done good as some are want to say.
Eric-I'm with you , I should like snow as well but don't give me 75's and bklue skies and I'm one happy individual. I'm glad to see that you've stuck it out with us and manged to find a search engine that is so far compatible with tthe forum for you. Wonderfull photo's BTW.I just love that trurn of the last century boat scene.
Well folks I'm not sure how often I will be back in, hopefully fairly regularly ,not sure I like this latest round of new and improved from the forum folks but hey we roll with the punches.
Rob
THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY
CLASSIC STEAM #37 BOAT TRAINS IN NORTHERN ONTARIO
Well , to round out today's theme of classic boat trains, here's my small piece to the larger story in the railroad world. Canada had several boat train operations,most were based around railway barges ferrying freight cars and passenegers accross straits or harbours as in the operations across the Detroit River or on some of the earlier CPR and BC rail operations to and from Vancouver Island. My home province has had some interesting rail and water operations as well, in the passenger end of the spectrum there are two or three that I can find some ready info on. I'm sure that there were more.
The first one I will touch on operated for a good 50 years in my own backyard right from my hometown. The interurban railway Thre Niagara St Catharines & Toronto operated boat train of a fashion.As disscussed before the NS&T operated interurban and street railway operations in the Niagara peninsula from the late 1880's to 1959,electric freight operations continued on until 1961.From the mid 1890's to 1953 you could ride the Niagara interurban from Port Colbourne on Lake erie down to Port Dalhousie on Lake Ontario ( St Catharines ) picking up the car in any of the communities along the line,Merriton , Thorold , Niagara Falls, etc and ride down to Lakeside Park which was along the lakeside it operated a full theme park and picnic areas, grandstand etc.In 1895 the Steamer Dalhousie City was chartered to bring people accross the lake from Toronto Island for summer excursions, soon this became a thriving cross lake service, eventually adding a second ship the Northumberland ( both owned by GT ) for years this was the thing to do on those hot muggy summer days, it also was a quick way to Toronto as the QEW was not yet built and it was faster taking the radial car-steamer route than a passenger train. By 1952 the NS&T owned Lakeside Park had burned down and became a run down mess and the cross lake services were ended.By this point as well the QEW and car ownership was a going concern and the two steamers were soon put to pasture, Dalhousie City actually burned at it's dock in 1949.
The second smaller operation was also tied in with one of Ontario's larger radial electric railway's. The London and Port Stanley RR operated frieght and passengers from the early 1900's to 1960 from Port Stanley to London. They also handled alot of coal traffic which was brought into them accross Lake Erie from Ashtibula.A lessor known run but it soldierd on until, the end, even after CN dieselized the L&PS hoppers of heating and locomotive coal were still brought in by car ferry. Once the CN fully dieselized in the eaarly 1960's and newer electrical and natural gas heating lines were built in the cities served the needed heating coal shipments ceased, what little was still consumed came via insterstate - 401 highway trucks.
The final batch of boat trains I'll chat about is the GT/CN cottage country boat trains some vestiges of still exist today ( the boats not the trains ).For years cottagers and summer tourists to teh Muskoka area of Ontario had to make the trip via train as hwy11 was still just a dream, what was built of it was generally unpassable and incomplete.CN's Bala subdivision provided the needed lifeline of goods and services to the near north and also brought in the tourists that built the cottages and the towns on the areas famous and picturesque lakes.The towns of Bracebridge ,Gravenhurst and Huntsville were all struggling to servive in the early part of the century, the farm land was poor but the timber stands mines and just the plain beautifull air and lakes was a major drawing card for people. The Muskoka River and it's three large land locked lakes Lake Muskoka , Lake Joeseph and Lake Rosseau were all deep navigable bodies of water and the Muskoka Navigation Company operated opto 20 steamers ( iron hull wood superstructures ) carrying people and goods. Naturally a partnership was formed with first the CnoR then the CN after the takeover to bring the supplies to the docks then onto the ships. From this arrangement many resorts and towns sprung up in what is still today one of the most sought after vacation areas in ontario, the only difference now is that you can drive to them, not so in the earlier part of the century.
In the heyday of the operations 1910-1940 vacationers from Southern Ontario of the Northeastern US could depat on on of seven daily trains from Toronto to the Muskoka Wharf at Gravenhurst( lake Muskoka ) or to Bala Park Wharf at Bracebridge ( Muskoka river / Lake Joe ) or conect to the CPR station right in Bala ( Lake Rosseau ) from these wharfs the train stations were located right on the docks, they could board one of the Muskoka Navigation companies steamers for cruises up and down the lakes to the various resorts or campgrounds. These trains and ships also carried mail all the Muskoka fleets ships carried Royal mail service and had the "RMS" designations.
Evening arrivals on these trains ( 6-7 hour trip 4 by car now )could board their steamers and sleep in a stateroom, or those who came on the later trains could sleep in the sleeping car that CN would leave on the dock plateforms.At the dockside the passengers were greeted by the Muskoka fleet ships RMS Seguin ( still exists today ) Sagamo,Islander,Cherekee,Medora,or Waome.This network of steamer connections offered twice daily access to the more than 80 resorts on the three lakes,and conveyed the groceries and mail and supplies for those that lived along these water ways.
The docksides changed as the car became the new mode of transport and hwy11 reached the Muskokas. by 1940 the docks and stations at lake Joesph and at Bala Park were closed with only the Muskoka wharf at Gravenhurst still operating. By 1950 only the Seguin and the Sagamo were still steaming on the lakes.As the new govt safety regs that were brought in after the Noronic fire in Toronto harbour the year before forced the rest of the fleet out of operation.The 1950 season saw the final cancellation of the Royal mail Contract for the steamers as well. 1952 saw the last season of boat trains to the Muskoka Wharf as well.The 1954 season was the last ship season on the lakes as well with both ships going into storage.
THE HAPPPY ENDING
In 1965 both the Seguin and The Sagamo were bought by the town of Gravenhurst and the freinds of the Muskoka Fleet came into being. The plan was to turn the Seguin into a floating museum of the lake fleets and the Sagamo which was the fleet flagship was to become a floating restuarant and hotel. The Wharf station was spruced up and all was going to plan. In 1969 though a grease fire in the Sagamo's galley burnt it to the waterline. The hull was towed to the other side of the bay were it still exists today.In the late 70's Seguin got a new lease on life purchased from the town for a dollar she was taken out of the water and completely refit to her 1927 glory. In 1981 PM Trudeau presided over the RMS Seguins re-commisioning as a fully restored and operational hand fired coal powerd cruise ship,( the coal is brought in by truck from West Virginia ) she still cruises the Muskoka lakes today along with a Sagamo look alike that is diesel powered that was built by the Muskoka fleet in 2002 and commisioned as RMS Wenonah 2.
Wenonah 2 at Gravenhurst Dock in 2003
The Fleet at dock in Gravenhurst The Seguin blt 1886 , The Wenonah blt in 2002
RMS Seguin comming into the dock.
enjoy Rob
G’day Gents!
Wednesday and mid-week! Time for some freshly ground ‘n brewed Joe, pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery, and a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board!
A mild late fall day here in mid-continent USA with temps expected to get into the high 40s (F) before another series of fronts move through later tonight, dropping us back to single digits, so “they” say. The hard cover of ice remains, although there are places where the sun has worked some “magic,” however the refreeze makes walking rather exciting!
The only word I can come up with for our Theme for the Day!– Boat Trains is Quite an outpouring yesterday with some mighty fine reading material (some previously acknowledged) and of course, Pix. to one and all who took the time and made the effort to participate. Way to go guys!
Seemed a bit odd not having Lars on board, but he’s been here every day for so long that my guess is he’s entitled to a few days away. Although I assure you, he’s not involved in recreational activities. And by the by, BK will most probably be gone for a long time. Said they returned from the U.S. over this past weekend but had so much going on that getting to the bar was out of the question. He expects to drop in before Christmas, but wasn’t too sure in the Email I received. They are packing up for a getaway – Hawaii (again). How nice, eh
To the acknowledgments:
Doug at 7:10 PM yesterday: Part II of your Railroad Navy submission took a bit of time to get through, but well worth it! This one encompassed information from railroads other than Erie, as the Pennsylvania, Long Island, Lackawana, Southern Pacific, Lehigh Valley ‘ Reading were mentioned. Oh yes, Louisville & Nashville – but with a “twist” found its way into the reading.
Yes, New York City is indeed a “saltwater town.” I can attest to that, as the sea remains a part of my fiber in spite of being landlocked here in mid-continent USA. So, did Fisk get away with it
And, in 1953 I had the opportunity to cross from Oakland to San Francisco by ferry. Being a Staten Islander, I thought only New York had such large ferries. Sure was wrong about that as the Bay area had some impressive vessels fer sure, fer sure.
James at 9:39 PM yesterday: I found your URL interesting but it poses a question that perhaps our resident experts can handle (DL ‘n Pete). In reviewing the material within the URL, it seems to me that to call these “Boat Trains” is a stretch, for it’s not as if they were regularly scheduled as the Ireland or Continent bound vessels were. Seems to me that trains were simply loaded aboard ships for use elsewhere. No Anyway, appreciate the participation from James!
Pete at 9:52 PM yesterday: Couldn’t agree with your more as taking the train to connect with the boat carries with it a certain allure. I never experienced it nor do I expect to. However, having witnessed all kinds of vessel traffic in the harbors of the world, my recollections of barges laden with rail cars is still vivid within my aging grey matter. <grin>
And once again, THANX FOR READING THE WORDS! One can always tell when it comes to your responses that you do indeed read what is provided rather than skim through it – which is a huge temptation during times of quantity such as yesterday.
Eric at 11:09 PM yesterday: Last time I looked, Union Station in St. Louis had four tracks for private car use. The last regularly scheduled Amtrak pulled out of the place in 1978. Hard to imagine that the 32-track-triple-laced-wye would quickly fall to the scrappers.
When we visit the place during our Rendezvous in May, it will be evident that this former rail palace was indeed worth salvaging from the ravages of time. Unfortunately, those with the power to make things happen totally blew it when the decision was made to shy away from anything resembling scheduled passenger service. Upscale is what they sought.
Thanx for being a READER of the Posts!
Mike at 11:13 PM yesterday: And leave it to our resident URLMeisterMonster to come up with even more URLs to accentuate the subject of Boat Trains! Well done, Mate.
Rob at 11:55 PM yesterday ‘n 12:56 AM t
Good Morning Barkeep and All present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Weather here is a little more tractable as the winds backed around to the SW; enabled me to shed a few layers this a.m. rather than hoodie, Carhartts, watch cap, etc. It's not the cold, it's the wind. Gas is $2.32/gal. today. I tanked up this a.m. as we are supposed to get a couple of days of snow later this week. Boss says we get to play outside in it on Friday which is supposed to be about 12 degrees at starting time.
Thanks to all for the boat train information. All downloaded and archived.
The first link works on my computer. However, for those who are having problems, go to Dogpile and type in Fall River Line and retrieve it there. It's a 1954-vintage article from American Heritage Magazine.
Pictures of the Bay Ridge float bridge was a good one and thanks for shots of the Plymouth, the Providence (in NY Harbor), and the North River pier. This is where the Fall River Line boats tied up in New York.
Also, the shot of the Hoboken Terminal was a good one; check out the signs for CNJ, B&O, RDEG and DL&W.
Eric - A good observation and question. The boats ran long before there was an all-rail connection between New York and Boston. In fact, the boats continued running after the Shore Line was completed, because they were fairly profitable (what a concept!) and passengers liked them. It's a New England thing as our ‘steamed proprietor appreciates. That's why we still play at Fenway Park.
Tom - I agree with what you mentioned about being able to see certain things. Here's my list.
I'd like to roll back the clock and be around Buffalo back in the early ‘40s to see the NYC. Then we'd roll back the calendar some more for a complete tour of the Boston and Albany (both before and after the A1s). Our next stop on the Central will be at Harmon where we'll watch them ready all of those Hudsons for the evening rush of westbound passenger trains; then we'll go over to the station and watch the changeover from electric to steam power. Last we'll spend an overnight at Wayneport, NY to "supervise" the action at the coal dock.
We'll do something similar at Denholm on the PRR and then head to Horseshoe in about 1943 and spend an afternoon and overnight there.
Next I'd go back and check out the BR&P before it went to the B&O.
Then we'd hit the SP in the Sierras in the winter, with steam, of course,
Can't forget the New Haven. We'll visit them just before the war, when the I5s were new (we'll include side trips to Cedar Hill, and So. Boston).
Then to the Southern operations on Saluda behind steam, then the Rathole on the SOU before it got daylighted, the FEC in winter with hw train from everywhere, etc. etc.
I am sure we all have these lists in our heads, but I'm just grateful I got to see so much before it vanished for good.
BTW, I was looking at some slides in my L&N file the other night and found one of a set of F units pulling a NB freight out of Radnor Yard. Looked at the date and said holy !@#$, this was approx. 40 yrs ago. It couldn't have been that long....
Better stop now, before Boris escorts me out.
Work safe
I'll join with ROB and have a pint please RUTH.
A good finish to the theme day with MIKE,s links loved the color shot of the M7 at Southampton and ROB with the Northern Ontario Boat Trains, like so many of the topics at the bar they could not compete once the highways were made up to a good standard. At least the RMS Sequin is still with us.
On another subject ROB one of my books that has arrived from England is The Cable Car in America by George W. Hilton it was published in California in 1971. With just under 500 pages it is a interesting book.How the book got to be on sale at second hand stand on a preserved railway in the North of England is probably a story in its self.
JAMES Glad you like the link to the boats on the Irish run..
ERIC Good picture of the Swedish Boat Train, with all the flags on the ships it must have been a special occasion?
With the Question for DL on the Lord Nelson class.
http://www.semg.org.uk/steam/lnclass_1.html
The loco in the photo at the bottom of the page in the link # 850 Lord Nelson herself has just had a major overhaul and should soon be doing main line steam tours soon.
During her previous spell on the main line in preservation days #850 was a very good engine and soon became very popular with railfans. The class did not have too good a reputation in BR days but this loco was amazing especially on the climbs in Northern England over the Pennines on the Diggle route and the Settle & Carlisle line.
TOM I too am missing Lars in his usual afternoon post.
Looking at the list of the previous eight Theme Days as well as the other subjects the great well of Knowledge we have at OUR PLACE is amazing.As you say in your post I do read the posts and get a great deal of enjoyment doing it. As still nearly new to the railroads and street systems of North America it really is a great way to learn, although the more I read at Our Place and in Classic Trains I more I regret not seeing the N. American railroads in their passenger heyday perhaps CM3 will let me travel on the time machine to see some of the sights he talked about in his post.
As to the caption in James's post, there was a boat train that did load passenger and frieght cars from England to Europe but not to South America. The pictures looks like Southampton and the train is formed of Pullman cars taking the liners passengers to or from London. I am not sure if the trains were run as a charter by the Shipping Lines or put on by the railway.
The Southern railway was always proud of its links to the shipping lines. It named its largest steam locos the 4-6-2 Merchant Navy class after shipping lines that served the companies docks. there are a few of these locos preserved, but not unfortunatly my favorite loco of the class # 35012 United States Line that I still see in my memory passing Fleet in Hampshire at what must have been nearly 100 MPH in remarkably clean condition.
Tom What is this I heard on the local news this morning? A woman in St Louis shot her 70 year old husband because he gave her a warm beer I see why they do not allow guns in the UK.
Well Ruth allow me to get a round in.
G'day Cap'n Tom & fellow travelers at the bar!
Leon, I'll take a JD on the rocks, a round for the house, and slide the snack tray down my way, wudja
Couldn't let two days in succession pass by without stopping in . . . Some things are habit forming and this place is surely THAT!
Nice work for the Theme Day and especially the works of DL, Doug, Pete, CM3, Tom 'n Rob. ALL who participated are thanked and ALL who help to keep this thread running are appreciated. [tup\
Won't be here for very long as I'm on "borrowed time" as it is. Personal travails continue in the Larsman household as it has been repetitive trips to the doctor, the hospital, the doctor, the ER, the doctor - you get the point I'm sure. My Mrs. and I are very weary and fortunately we've been given the night "off" as one of our sons and his wife are handling things in order for us to regroup.
I'm way behind in my reading, but did manage to at least go through the material on the boat trains, or at least as much as I could given the constraints of time. Really impressed with the history that is crammed into those posts. Outstanding work, gentlemen!
That's discouraging news about BK, surely had hoped for his return for at least a couple of weeks. Hawaii sounds good to me! When's the TRAIN leave For connection with the BOAT (ship!!) of course!!
Hope to be back B4 the weekend!
Until the next time!
Lars
G-day Tom and all present!
Leon- make it a coffee for now. I know I haven't ordered any food from you so, I will have a sandwih tonight. Thanks.
I will have to get back to the posting tomorrow. I will just be leaving a few layout pics behind tonight.
The first to are at my local Museum. I am a member and have acess to the layout there. Tonight was the meeting night so I decided to drop by and take a few pics. This would be the town located in the eastern part of the layout. This whole layout is of the Duluth area.
Here's a pic of one of the mines where we get a portion of the raw ore. Then it's taken to the processing plant. But it's a cool little mine.
Here is my DL-109 making it's way around a corner near the Fitgers Brewery. This is an actual brewery here in town. They still cook up a brew or two. So if you want, you can order some of your beer from them.... If interested!
Got to go!
Good evening Leon. I see only a few picked up on the round money I left behind so feel free to draw money for rounds tomorrow from it. For me just a Keith's tonight please. The odd winter weather continues again today, +5C and rain , washed away the half inch of snow we recieved yesterday, oh well could be worse I suppose
Tom-Hope you enjoyed the Ontario boat train , the long running offer of meeting yu and carol for a cruise on one of those beauties is still as always open. i'm just glad that I've been able to make it in two nights in a row here. We're upto 6 daays a week at the store now 10 hour days oh well 3 more weeks then I can be normal again ( if possible )Good to know that BK is still alive and well, I miss his alway's on topic running banter around the bar.
Lars-Glad you made it in even if it's just a flying trip, sorry to hear that things still aren't going well. Hawaii sounds good to me about now as well. Wonder if BK would notice the two of us stowing away in his carry on luggage
Mike-Interesting batch of url's as always, some really nice photo's in those as always
Pete-That sounds like an interesting book,I've never been big on cable cars but at one point in the US there were more cities with cable car systems than traditional streetcar systems. Chicago and New York City had the largest network of cable cars at one point. They just tended to be more manpower and maintenance heavy than the traditional streetcar systems. We had heard at the museum that the cable Cars in San Fran have such specific needs partwise that everything is made in house.I think you would like the Seguin , wonderfull ship to cruise on , we do at least one trip a year on her, even at her age she still capable of her top speed of 16 knots and is always as old out cruise I have to say that as much as you are learning from us here, the rest of us are learning from you and DL and Nick about the English and european rail systems. truly what makes us unique around here Nice little shot of theorient express as well sir
James-Nice shots of that club layout.And very apropriate to optional model train day here at the ole tavern by the Tracks. I have to say that I'm a sucker for anything made by Alco
Good evening Captain Tom and all!!
Time for a little break before bedtime!
Coffee and a ham sandwich, please! Thank you Leon, keep the change!
Mike – Thanks for the Url’s! Some real nice pictures from old times. Rob – Glad to know that I am not the only one here that doesn’t like cold weather and snow.
Yes, I am glad I found this browser, Camino. It was not fun at all not being able to post pictures and all that other stuff and when the text problems started last week I was very frustrated. Very interesting info about the Ontario boat trains! I agree, it is a happy ending for RMS Seguin! Tom – Next year it will be 14 years since I visited St. Louis Union Station. Spent two nights at the hotel there, and went to Hooter’s for something to eat. It will be interesting to see how much things have changed. Hopefully those four tracks will still be there then.CM3 – I kind of understood that those boats were running before there was a rail connection between New York and Boston. What I find surprising is that they continued for so long after there was a rail connection. But, it is always nice to relax on a boat, having a nice dinner and go to bed and wake up when you arrive to your destination. Like taking a night train. So I guess that bhelped to keep the boats runningI certainly wish I had been able to see all those “old” RR while they were still running. Your list covers a whole bunch of them.Pete – Thanks for the link to all the information about the Lord Nelson class. Only 16 were built, but even I had heard about them years and years ago. So they must have been special in more than one way. Lars – Sorry to hear about the health problems. I sincerely hope things will turn around to the better very soon. James – I guess people living around the mine must be very poor considering the very old car at least one of them is driving. Nice pictures of very nice club layout!
Good morning Tom and friends on December 7th. Yet another day we remember service men and women who fight in this country's wars. I'll have two light breakfasts, and submit some very interesting artwork of a painted-rock in Iowa.
Painted by Ray "Bubba" Sorenson II
Sorry I missed checking in yesterday. Some days are like that. I see that Tom, Eric, Mike, James and the long-missing Rob made more additions to our theme-day subject. I still have some more material to share myself, but it will have to wait for another day. I want to wrap-up what's been started, so I can get it off my desk. Ditto for the CGW material. Speaking of which, I missed the Pike piece I had (unlike James who submitted a "goody", so here it is now:
Daylight Along the Lionel Lines by Allan W. Miller - VR #2
Back when travel by train was the preferred mode of long distance transportation, America's western railroads led the way in image-building and self-promotion by applying striking paint schemes to their locomotives and passenger cars. Who could ever forget the respondent and silver "warbonnet" motif of the Santa Fe's Super Chief; the vibrant yellow of the Union Pacific's "City of ..." trains; or the distinctive red, orange, and silver of the Southern Pacific's Coast Daylight?
America's electric toy train manufacturers also realized that color helps to sell products, and even before the days of the streamliners one could purchase toy engines and coaches in a virtual rainbow of hues - however fanciful and unrealistic they may have been. Eventually, when the prototype lines began adorning their equipment in snazzy colors, you could pretty much count on a more-or-less faithful model reaching the hobby store shelves soon after the full size version hit the tracks. There were, however, some notable exceptions.
For example, the nation's leading manufacturer of electric toy trains - Lionel - didn't produce an O gauge train in the striking SP Daylight color combination until long after the prototype Daylights were gone. In fact, it wasn't until 1982 that Lionel introduced the first which would eventually become a series of trains decorated in this classic paint scheme.
Lionel's initial release, a complete passenger set, included five aluminum streamlined cars headed by a matched A-A pair of F3 diesels (one powered and one unpowered). Later that year, Lionel offered an unpowered B unit with horn to supplement the initial set as well as a matching diner. Both of these add-on items were apparently manufactured in more limited numbers than the original set, and as a result both are much sought y today's collectors.
In what appears to have been something of a rush to make up for its lack of trains decorated in Daylight livery, Lionel followed up in 1983 with two additional items: A Vista Dome car, and a sleek, streamlined Southern Pacific GS-4 steam locomotive in brilliant Daylight attire. At long last, collectors and operators could choose either steam or diesel power to head this superb consist.
Lionel introduced GS-2 No. 4410 in Daylight colors in 1991.
Ownership of Lionel Trains changed hands in 1986; it wasn't until 1990 that the next item of Daylight rolling stock - a full dome aluminum car - was offered. Those fortunate enough to have acquired the original diesel-powered set, along with all the supplementary items produced through 1990, now had an imposing train measuring nearly 14 feet in length and valued toady at more than $3,200! Of that total estimated value, the limited production B unit today commands the highest collector prices - in excess of $900.
In app1, Lionel introduced yet another streamliner in Daylight colors: A model of GS-2 No. 4410. Equipped with Lionel RailSounds, the locomotive employed state-of-the-art electronics to realistically simulate the sounds of the prototype. Some collectors of the earlier GS-4 grumbled a bit about how the new streamliner might adversely affect the value of their original pieces, but improved paint and the new sound system more than offset any concerns in the marketplace.
The following two years were highlighted (for Sp fans) by the introduction of Lionel's famed "Madison-type" heavyweight passenger cars in Daylight colors. Four coaches were released in 1992, followed by a baggage car in 1993. Although they are all matched items in terms of outward appearance, it's interesting to note that the four coaches marked Lionel's last use of Bakelite plastic for toy train items; the subsequently-produced baggage car is made of ABS plastic.
They were along time in coming, but Lionel's O gauge Daylight renditions have been well worth waiting for. Whether adorning a collector's display shelf or streaking through the miniature landscape of an operating layout, these colorful toy trains serve as lasting reminders of railroading at its very best.
A seven-year-old boy was at the center of a Dallas courtroom drama yesterday when he challenged a court ruling over who should have custody of him. The boy has a history of being beaten by his parents, and the judge initially awarded custody to his aunt, in keeping with child custody law and regulations requiring that family unity be maintained.The boy surprised the court when he proclaimed that his Aunt beat him more than his parents and he adamantly refused to live with her. When the judge then suggested that he live with his grandparents, the boy cried out that they also beat him.After considering the remainder of the immediate family and learning that domestic violence was apparently a way of life among them, the judge took the unprecedented step of allowing the boy to propose who should have custody of him.After two recesses to check legal references and confer with child welfare officials, the judge granted temporary custody to the Greenbay Packers, whom the court firmly believes are not capable of beating anyone.
December 7th still means “a day of infamy”to many Americans, especially for those who experienced the pain of WWII, whether “over there” or at home awaiting the return of loved ones.
It’s also Thursday and time for some freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee, pastries from the Mentor Village Bakery, along with a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board!
Petrol jumped yesterday from $2.18 (rounded) to $2.29 while I was filling the “buggy” – fortunately the folks at “Collusion Corner, station #2” permitted me to keep the lower price. How nice, eh Temps here have dropped to near single digits with the high expected to reach 20 (F) – but the skies remain blue and the ice shield is as hard and ever present as previously described. Warm up into the 40s expected for the weekend.
Yesterday was “my day” (NOT!) for internet connectivity problems. Spent the majority of the morning ‘ afternoon trying to get 4 different “techs” to understand the situation with my cable company high-speed connection. What a treat it is to talk with “Dave – Doris – Mike ‘n “unintelligible” – all with heavy Indian accents – all pretending to be Americans – and all working for the outsourced “customer service” that our cable company has gone with. Awful, simply awful. Finally got everything back in order, but I had to personally visit the HQ of the company (only a 10 minute drive) to arrange for a new cable modem. That’s what it took, along with another marathon phone call to get the thing to connect. <phew> Lord oh Lord do I ever hate these experiences!
Doesn’t appear that I was missed as nothing much seemed to be going on during the daylight hours.
Time for a few acknowledgments, before picking up the pieces from my lost day of yesterday:
CM3 at 9:09 AM yesterday: Enjoyed your rolling back the clock for us – and perhaps you should consider making that a “feature” of yours now ‘n then. Some nice feelings accompanied the reading and my guess is only those who have experienced those “days of yore” can truly appreciate the nostalgia.
As mentioned a time or three on this Thread, I lived in New England for 8 years – 3 in Connecticut and 5 in Massachusetts. Since becoming heavily involved with the discussion of Classic Trains and attendant subjects, I surely regret not having taken full advantage of everything available to me in the form of operating trains back then. I always had the love for trains, but in my particular circumstances then, raising a family of 3 kids, working part-time at night to supplement my military pay, there just wasn’t much time for other things. Isn’t that the way, eh Fortunately, we have so many reminders here in the Ether all supported by a hard core of willing contributors to keep the flow of Nostalgia – flowing!
Pete at 4:07 PM yesterday: Never, but never serve a woman a warm beer in the U.S.A.!! Nope – a guy could get shot over it. Really not funny, but yes – it happened. A Stag beer at that – which used to be a well known local brew some decades back. Today, it’s just a label – bought out once or twice by the “sharks” of the business. Anyway, the guy is deceased, the wife in the lock-up, and if one listens intently, you may hear the scratching of heads in wonderment of it all.
And thanx for the additional info on the Boat Trains headed for the “new world.”
Great looking Hornby Orient Express train set! Wouldn’t ya love to have one of those right about now Surely would look great circling the Christmas tree!
Lars at 7:10 PM yesterday: The return of our Manager after a one-day hiatus. You were missed and it was duly noted by the comments! So you have made an impact ‘round here, not to mention being our most ardent supporter who is unafraid to step up to the plate when needed. Thanx, Lars and don’t be concerned at all with this joint – we’ll still be here when the time is right for you to pick up where you left off!
Must admit that a Boat Train to Hawaii sounds good to me!
James at 9:24 PM yesterday: Nice layout Pix, which of course kept our OPTIONAL Wedne
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Before we begin, a toast to absent friends; in honor of the day.
Lars - We're pulling for you - hang in there!
James provided layout pictures and a shot of an MILW DL109 in original paint, yet!
Rob has surfaced!
Eric - You're correct in what you said re boats. The PRR used to haul cars on barges before their line in what later became the NEC was completed. BTW, I REALLY miss having a sleeper on AT 66 and 67. That was one of may favorite runs.
Barndad - Thanks for the memorial material as well as the Daylight article.
To our ‘Steamed Proprietor - I know what you mean about customer service. Our latest round was with someone named Kevin - If he's Kevin, then I'm...O.K. Boris, I'll stop!
The St. Louis shooting that Pete discussed sent me back to my "half-vast" files for something I posted a long time ago. I use it evety now and then when I do AI classes.
Accident Report - Snakes
A couple had a lot of potted plants, and during a cold spell, the wife brought some of them indoors to protect them from a possible freeze. A little grass snake that had been hiding in the plants slithered out and went under the living room sofa. The wife saw it and screamed. Her husband was taking a shower and he ran, naked, into the living room. The family dog cold nosed him on the rear while he was on hands and knees looking for the snake. He fainted. His wife thought he'd had a heart attack and called the ambulance. The attendants loaded the man onto a stretcher and started to carry him out. One of the EMTs saw the snake emerge from under the sofa and dropped the end of the stretcher; that's how the man broke his leg.
The wife called on a neighbor man who volunteered to capture the snake. He decided the snake was gone after poking around under the sofa with a rolled up newspaper. Relieved, the lady sat down on the sofa. Her hand slid between the cushions where she felt the snake moving around. She fainted. The neighbor man tried to use CPR to revive her. The neighbor man's wife, who had just returned home from a trip to the grocery store, saw her husband's mouth on the woman's mouth and slammed him on the back of his head with a bag of canned goods. The cans knocked him out and cut his head so bad that it needed stitches. The ambulance was called again. The noise woke the woman from her dead faint and when she saw her neighbor lying on the floor with his wife bending over him, she assumed he had been bitten by the snake. So she went to the kitchen, brought back a small bottle of whiskey and began to pour it down the man's throat. By now the police had arrived. They saw an unconscious man, smelled whiskey, and thought it was a drunken fight. The women escaped arrest by telling them about the snake. The ambulance took away the neighbor and his sobbing wife.
The snake again crawled out from under the sofa. One of the cops drew his gun and fired at the snake. He missed the snake and hit the leg of the end table that was on one side of the sofa. The table fell over and the lamp on it shattered, and as the bulb broke, it started a fire in the drapes. The other cop, trying to beat out the flames, fell through the window out into the yard on top of the family dog, who jumped up and ran out into the street in front of an oncoming car. The car swerved to avoid the dog, smashed into the parked police cruiser and set it on fire.
Meanwhile the flames from the burning drapes had spread and the entire house was blazing. Neighbors had called the fire department. The fire truck began raising its ladder when it was halfway down the street. The ladder tore out overhead wires, disconnecting electric and phone service in a ten-square block area.
Time passed; both men were discharged from the hospital. The house was rebuilt. The police got a new cruiser, and all was right with the world. About a year later the original couple was watching TV and the weatherman announced a cold snap for that night. The husband asked the wife if she thought they should bring in the plants for the night - she shot him!
Hello Tom
I'll have a pint of bitter, and whatever filling item is on the menu since I'm starving!
Well, I think we had an excellent Boat Train day - very informative and enjoyable.
Just to catch up on a few points.
Lars - thanks for your info on the signals and high balls - most informative. Your comments on the boat train to Hawaii reminded me of a lady I met when I was on the California Zephyr a few years back - she was travelling from Paris to Hawaii over land - Paris London via the channel tunnel, London New York via Cunard liner, New York San Francisco via Amtrak, then ship to her home in Hawaii. I think she had plenty of cash!!
Eric - your pictures and formatting is showing loud and clear to me - have you cracked it? Let's hope so! Pete has given you the info on the Lord Nelson - the wider point is that until the ‘Big 4' UK railroad companies were brought into one at Nationalisation in 1948 each more or less pursued their own designs, so you could get classes of machine that were not too large in number. Mind you the LMS railway claimed to be the largest joint stock company in the world in the 1930s - which surprises me as I would think a US company would have held that title by the 1930s, but maybe not? BR introduced Standard Designs of steam locomotive - and some were very good, but in the great scheme of things the writing was on the wall with diesel in the wings, as we all know.
Doug - Pete is correct - cell phones are banned here when driving - sadly does not stop them being used in that manner however, does mean that if you had an accident and it was shown you were on the phone at the time your insurance would not pay out and you'd be treated a lot more heavily by the courts I guess. I particularly enjoyed your RR Navy submission by the way, gave some idea of the scale of operations.
Miner - I managed the Fall River game pretty well - nice link - a boat train in the true sense.
Mike - some great pics (as usual)!!
Rob, excellent article on Canada - really enjoyed the stuff about the north Ontario lakes and cottages. I guess we are all getting busy as the festive season approaches.
Tom - checked that poster - certainly looks bound for the White Cliffs of Dover as you say - I guess the artists hands over the picture to the publicity department and leaves it to them - well spotted!
I enjoyed your story about the TV set - hope the replacement gave trouble free service!
As to age at the bar - yes, I'm old enough to be served in any US state (by quite a few years I might add), but not old enough to remember the classic era - whether you can appreciate it all the more for that I don't know (probably not), but there we are!
Interested in your recollections of the QE2, that is one ship I'd like to go on. I think it was the last liner with a link to the classic era that was actually built in the UK - although I might be wrong about that. My grandfather was fascinated by the big liners and travelled to the USA on the Queen Elizabeth and home on the Queen Mary - that was back in the mid 1960s - I have some mementos my grandparents saved from those voyages, I expect they saved long and hard for those trips in those days! He had been to see the Queen Mary under construction on the Clyde in the 1930s as a young man and I guess always dreamed of taking a trip some day.
James - as Tom points out (and Pete clarified) you've mistaken those boat trains for train ferries, which they are not. They are special services timed to meet the trans Atlantic ocean liners and carry passengers to London - the trains themselves would not have gone on the ship (or been exported). As Tom suggests, not quite scheduled boat trains (as they would not have appeared in the public timetables), but ocean liner passengers would have been advised of their schedules in case they needed to book seats on those trains. The head boards on the loco fronts mark the name of the shipping line they are runn ing in connection with - so ‘Holland America' will be for passengers on a Holland America shipping line boat service to/from South America.
Pete - interesting link to Kansas City Union Station - certainly an impressive building, looks well worth a visit.
When the demolition work was done for Weekday Cross viaduct the local paper had a competition whereby you could win a 100 or so blue engineering bricks from the old GCR viaduct - I didn't need ‘em but I entered the comp. but did not win however. I bet those were the best quality bricks about!
Stanton Ironworks was mentioned here when discussing industrial locos recently - just seen the local paper they are to halve their workforce to 250 as they end the production of iron pipes. . They once employed 10,000 people at the site! Also I read Dormer Tools (a famous engineering tool company) wants to move production to Brazil - 190 jobs to go. Some companies know how to celebrate the festive season...
I did not know West Country Pacific Wadebridge still existed, where is it, do you know?
Also - I believe there was also a Merchant Navy Class loco General Steam Navigation - I ask because my maternal grandfather worked for the General Steam Navigation (GSN) company. I hear d this loco had been rescued but I don't know much more about it - do you happen to know of anything? Due to the work the GSN line gave the Southern Railway family information says my grandfather was allowed to use a free pas to travel on all SR lines, however it was assumed that this pass was terminated on nationalisation and presumably the pass itself returned to the railways. It is not in family possession which is a shame as it would be an interesting memento. My mothers says they took a family holiday to Paris after the war when she was child, using this pass. She believes they travelled on The Golden Arrow, in a Pullman Car.
I enjoyed your info on The Irish Mail. I have only been on that route once, when I had to go to a conference in Llandudno about 10 years back. I took the train (class 37 hauled) through to Holyhead ‘for the ride' and returned back to Llandudno. A scenic run as I recall.
I note the current timetable still has 2 trains per day to connect with the boats from Heysham to the Isle of Man - they run from Lancaster (so at probably less than 10 miles a pretty short boat train). Most other services on this route only go as far as Morecombe, but these 2 services run to Heysham Harbour, as built by the Midland Railway.
Your questions about Dover Marine etc interested me so I have looked into this.
Anyway, it looks like Dover Marine (the most impressive Boat Train station) is a listed building so still exists, although no longer connected to the railway network. It has been restored and turned into a cruise ship terminal as detailed below - this is, I suppose, good news, if it means all of the station has been restored, but it may just be part of it, I could not establish the full details.
see
http://www.dover-kent.co.uk/transport/marine_station.htm
"In 1994-96 the old Marine Station was converted into the new Cruise Liner Terminal, and in 1998-2000 second cruise terminal was constructed, involving the widening of the pier extension"
There is a good aerial picture here which shows that it is no longer rail connected.
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/stations/d/dover_western_docks/index.shtml
Well, I'll have another beer after that long post!
DL
Good Morning Captain Tom and fellow sophisticates!
The more things change, the more they stay the same as I have had two posts vanish from sight and the site in attempting to reconnect with my favorite tavern.
Ruth, yes it is I and please pour me a steaming hot mug of coffee with just a "splash" to make it interesting. By all means put aside whatever you need for a round on me and of course the change is yours!
I have not taken the time to review the postings since my last appearance, but plan to either this afternoon or in the morning. There are no plans to provide a chronological response, for that would most definitely be far more effort than I am prepared to impart. <grin>
Could not help but notice the fine tribute from Doug and mention by others of this day in history. Pearl Harbor Day carries with it all sorts of emotions, especially as Tom has pointed out, to those who experienced any facet of WWII. I read where the surviving Pearl Harbor veterans are holding their final reunion as their numbers are diminishing rapidly, which is to be expected given that these guys are in their 80's and 90's. Continuing appreciation to them and all who sacrficed for our freedom on that day and ever since.
Hope my U.S. friends enjoyed the Thanksgiving holdiay and long weekend; we did. Our trip took us to two border states for a reunion with long neglected family and friends. Lydia was most impressed with the manner in which we celebrate the giving of thanks, which is quite a departure from what she has grown accustomed to in Alberta. Family took to her immediately, which was really no surprise, and we know have the "official blessings" from all who were unable to attend our modest wedding ceremony.
My ears having been burning, so I suspect my name has been bandied about here in the ether. Sorry it has taken me so long to return, but as we all know, there are priorities in life that supplant those of leisure. Nevertheless, I expect to be here for two weeks, when we will then depart for an extended visit to the 50th state. We have an open-ended return and just may winter over! <grin>
I did note some hobby type photos on my way to preparing this, my third attempt, response! So, let me drop these on you, albeit a bit late:
1952 Lionel Catalog
2006 Lionel Catalog
Hope to reconnect tomorrow!
BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!
G'day Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth, a tankard of ale, make it Keiths and a round for the house. Fill up the trays for the critters, including Boris' small jar of pickled pig's feet and slide the snack tray down my way, wudja
What ho! The return of my "bookend" and friend, BK the now-anchored world traveler. Or perhaps that isn't so, since he's been everywhere but home since pulling the plug on international sojourns for monetary purposes! <grin> Good to see ya and am happy to know that you may be able to drop in a bit more, even if there's yet another trip looming on the horizon for you and your Mrs. Hawaii, huh Been a long time since I've seen the "islands," and the last time was for pleasure as my Mrs. and I flew 1st class from Kennedy many years back. Long trip, good time, and a wonderful way to blow a fistfull of money. ;<grin>
Appreciate the kind words of encouragement from you guys. Really not necessary, but nice still the same. Just a matter of being able to keep ahead of what it takes to provide comfort and assistance to someone who has done so much for us in her life. Family taking care of family, perhaps something disappearing from the American scene from what I've been led to believe. Not so aboard my ship!
Sorry to have to be rather abrupt with my visitation, but I found a few minutes and thought I could at least check up on what's gong on.
Great tribute from Doug! 5- to you, Sir!! Nice to know that even the guys who are younger than when that 'day of infamy' took place, understand and appreciate keeping the spirit alive!
Enjoyable Posts from Doug, CM3, DL 'n Tom. Particularly enjoyed that Lionel piece from Doug on the SP Dayliners. Neat!! (an old fashioned term, I know, I know!! <groan>) If I've failed to acknowledge anyone, please excuse my slight - it isn't intentional - just a bit in a press for time.
Also remembered reading that "snake" story from CM3 - a good laugher at that!
Shooting your husband over being served a warm beer, huh Hmmmmmm, would've thought it the other way 'round - usually the guy is the one getting served! Anyway, our trip to St. Louis should prove most interesting - should we pack side arms <grin>
Nice model pix from James and some fine words from Pete 'n Rob yesterday . . . just caught up! <phew>
Gotta run . . . hope to be back tomorrow!
No, Ruth - haven't got the time, but if you'd like to plant one of those 'smackers' right here . . . .
I'll try a Fitgars Lghthouse Golden and then a Witchtree ESB from the brewery in Deluth as show in the layout JAMES posted , please RUTH..
ROB It must be a great day out on the SEQUIN. I have found a link to the Paddle Steamer Waverley. Next year is her 60th anniversary, I have read that there are plans to perhaps have her meet up with one of the steam hauled tours at Mallaig , Scotland.
http://www.waverleyexcursions.co.uk/waverley.htm
The cable cars were in quite a few cities in the U.S. At Birmingham International Airport in the Midlands of England, there was a link built between the airport and the nearby railway station which runs on a elevated track. When it was first built it was the first passenger MAGLEV, after a while out of service it is worked by cable now, it is a useful and reliable link.
ERIC When the Lord Nelsons were introduced the Southern Railway boasted they were Britain's most powerful passenger class in terms of Tractive Effort(TE). It is said it was this boast that spurred on the Great Western to build their King class of 4-6-0 to get the title back. The Nelsons had a TE of33,510lb and the King 40,285lb.
After the grouping in 1923 the LMS found it self in trouble as regards to motive power on the West Coast Main Line, and arranged a trial with a Great Western Castle class loco and one of the West Coast locos,the GW Castle won the trial hands down. The LMS asked the GWR if it could have the drawings to the Castle but the GWR refused, at that time the Lord Nelson class had been introduced and the Southern Railway was more accomodating and lent the Nelson drawings which the LMS used to produce the Royal Scot class, or so the story goes.
http://www.hmilburn.easynet.co.uk/library/steam/locos/lms/m6160.jpg
As you can see there is a lot of simularity betwen the look of the Nelsons and the Scots, before the Scots were rebuilt in the 1940s and 50s.
DOUG. That is very good artwork on the rock,I take it that is the artist in the picture , a talented young man, thanks for sharing with us on this special date.
It was strange that a model of the Daylight was not made earlier, it is a classic loco calling out to be modelled. I wonder what the GS-2 cost new in 1991?
CM3 Thanks for the cautionary tale about the snake.Its amazing how one thing can lead to another.
DL Very interesting post. You mentioned the QE2,in the mid 80s it was decided to change the ships propulsion to Diesel-Electric. The two main motors were built in the factory that worked at, in fact I helped in their building. I have a photograph which was taken after their building and testing with a lot of the factory staff gathered around one of them, they were massive.
It is very sad to hear of Stanton Ironworks and Dormer Tools, in my area I have seen factories closed down or very much slimmed down in size with a lot of good men thrown on the scrapheap. It makes one fear for the future of manufacturing nations like Britain when it is all shipped abroad. The money it would coast to build a large manufacturing works today would be enormous and the idea some top managers have of being able to get anyone off the street and start doing a skilled job is a fallacy.Sorry folks if I have ranted on a bit and it is but it is a subject dear to my heart.
Back to railway matters the West Country pacific 'Wadebridge' is currently at the Bodmin & Wenford Railway in Cornwall, quite appropiate as it is near the town of Wadebridge, although the loco has steamed they are asking for funds to build a new tender as she has a borrowed one at the present.
I enjoyed the family info on the General Steam Navigation. a pullman trip on the Golden Arrow to Paris. The Merchant Navy loco named after the GSN was number 35011.She was rescued from Barry scrapyard and was a Brighton where I believe there was a plan to have a museum in the Preston Park Pullman shed, which didn't come about. I have traced the loco to a old R.A.F airfield in Lincolnshire, RAF Binbrook, I don't know if the loco is still there, also there is an ex LMS "Crab" 4-6-0 loco. I have a link showing some photos of her, but I am afraid she is in pretty bad shape
http://mostlyrailways.fotopic.net/c565336.html
In her British Railways days 35011 seems to have worked on the ex London & South Western lines of the Southern Region, she was shedded at Nine Elms (London) in 1950, in 1959 she was at Exmouth Junction depot where she would of worked the trains from the West Country to London from Exeter, I believe the Merchant Navies were too heavy to work the S.R. lines west of Exeter. In the mid 60s she was at Bournemouth and no doubt had her share of Boat Train workings.
Thanks for the info and links on Dover Marine station, I visited there on a railtour where we done both sides of the triangle(Wye) leading to the station. I always enjoyed Railtours on the Southern Region.
When I travelled to Heysham Harbour quite a few years ago now it was a 2-Car first generation Diesel Unit, although when we returned on the ship it was a bus to Lancaster station. I dare say, but for the need to get to the nuclear power station there, the line to the harbour would have closed.
The North Wales Coast will always be special to me. We had a few hoildays at Penmeanmawr just along the coast from Llandudno. The railway ran along side the sands there. opposite the station were some chalets with a flat roof which were great for watching the trains, there was a fair bit of frieght traffic then as well as the passenger traffic all steamed hauled. Unfortunaly the A55 coast road has been realigned there and the chalets have gone and the road between the shore and the railway, Change as Tom often says.
BK Great to see you in the bar.It is good to see the 2006 Lionel catalog cover is still in the tradition of the older ones.
LARS Many thanks for the kinds words on the Boat Day. May I agree what TOM and CM3 said in their posts, to you, they are my thoughs but said a lot better than I can.
TOM There is nothing more guaranteed to spoil your day than a call center, it is the same if not worse the other side of the pond. the last time I tried one of the utilities I spent about 5 minutes following instructions pressing numbers on the phone only to finish up being cut off and not talking to a human at all, as you say when you do get a human it is not a lot better.GRRRRR.
I have made hints to the bride about the Orient Express set they also do a box with 4 extra Pu
Doug, I really enjoyed the maritime article. Thanks for morning pictures..
DL, your story about escaping to France was terrific.
Eric, it's no surprise that you solved the problem. An engineer always gets machinery right.
Pete, the Irish Mail is the route to Dublin, so if I ever visit England I'll be on it.
Also that viaduct in Scotland looks cool. Jacobian, the train to Kyle of Lochalsh.
Lars, I'm late to say thanks for the CV book cover. I think Banana Belt refers to the mild winters in Connecticut as compared to bitterly cold Northern Division.
James, I found Duluth on the map, about the most westerly point on the Great Lakes.
It seems to have half a dozen mainlines in the 1956 atlas, with one south of Lake Superior to Michigan.
Rob, be careful about posting nights in a row, Our Place could become addictive. Like cellphones.
CM3, in case you can't get enough pictures of dingy old steamboats
http://www.sailsinc.org/durfee/fallriver.htm
And your link to the American Heritage article in case anyone missed it.
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1954/1/1954_1_6.shtml
Tom, I hope these pictures are not too upsetting. They enlarge to full screen. My uncle John joined the Army Air Corps in 1940 and was at Hickam Field.
He survived his war but many don't and I try to remember them every day of the year.
Hickam Field smoking (photographed from a Japanese plane)
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-125.jpg
USS Shaw exploding
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-126.jpg
USS Arizona burning
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-127.jpg
USS West Virginia on fire
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-128.jpg
American troops at Corregidor
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-129.jpg
American prisoners with their hands tied behind their backs
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-130.jpg
Bataan Death March, no food or water, they carried their buddies who fell
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-131.jpg
USS Missouri, Tokyo surrender ceremony September 2, 1945
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-202.jpg
Troops returning from Europe on the Queen Mary, June 20, 1945
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/photos/images/ww2-201.jpg
The tip of Manhattan
http://www.archives.gov/research/american-cities/images/american-cities-047.jpg
Brooklyn Eastern District Terminal
http://cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr4077_brooklyn_ny_freight_terminal_1963.jpg
Long Island Rail Road
http://cvrma.org/pictures/MISC/dfrr4050_long_island_rr_barges_icy_east_river_nyc_1945.jpg
Good Evening Gents!
Just returned from a cold walk ‘round the subdivision with the Wonder Husky and I’m here to tell ya that with a 16 (F) temp, a breeze and footing that is only fit for an experienced Himalayan guide, I’m thankful that the return home was without incident.
Some acknowledgments before I check out for the day:
CM3 at 8:37 AM today: Your “accident report” on snakes is a most humorous accounting of something that perhaps could’ve been a skit for the Stooges. Enjoyed it as much the 2nd time ‘round!
No joy in Mudville when it comes to having to communicate with the “outsourced” world. Really grim and a reason that I tuck away for future questioning whenever I engage in checking out warranties for major purchases. The question: Do you provide telephonic customer service in the U.S. And if so, are these people fluent in English I’m equally appalled at having to speak with someone with a “huge” accent, trying to convince me that they are speaking English. Nope – given a choice, I’ll take my business elsewhere.
DL at 10:31 AM today: What is particularly beneficial to those who follow our discussions at the bar is that when a subject is offered, the dialogue seems to catch fire. Such as been the case with the Boat Trains theme for Tuesday. Of course it does take one’s time to READ the words and check out the URLs in order to gain full appreciation for the efforts of others. Nicely done, Mate! [tpu]
Somewhere on these Pages, I’ve mentioned that in a former life I was a wireless operator (dots ‘n dashes; aka: Morse Code) at sea. Spent many, many months in the north Atlantic and communicated with the greats of the sea: Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, Ile de France, SS United States, etc. Saw many of them as they ploughed through the shipping routes in either direction as we literally sat there to provide whatever at sea assistance necessary, keep watch on the ice bergs, communicate positioning data to the prop-driven trans-Atlantic air craft, and so forth. An interesting period of my life.
TV The replacement set lasted for over 10 years and I believe was still in operating condition when we “retired” it.
BK at 11:24 AM today: The return of Bud Karr! Glad to learn that your getaway was enjoyable and the loooooooong holiday weekend went well. There’s been mention that some of the guys are planning to stowaway for your trip to Hawaii! Best check those large steamer trunks . . . .
Nice Lionel catalog covers – spanning many decades at that! I’ll take the 1952 trains any day over the newer stuff. Price WAS far better, quality top shelf and the workings were far simpler. Lionel of old, if any of it can be found at less than exorbitant prices, should be a good deal for anyone trying to recreate a trainset from childhood. One day, I’m going to try . . .
Lars at 3:33 PM today: Appears as if you’re trying your level best to burn the candle at both ends – but, we’re happy to have you aboard anytime you’re able!
Don’t be concerned about a sidearm while here for the Rendezvous, I’ll take care of watching your back! <grin> Anyway, warm beer will NOT be served under any circumstances.
Back when St. Louis had a first class hub at Lambert International, TWA used to fly non-stop to Honolulu. A long flight, but either business class or 1st class aboard those 747s could easily make one forget just how long a flight it was. I’ve never really been fond of Hawaii, as I’m more the cold weather kindaguy over the sand ‘n surf. However, it is a beautiful place to kick back and let the world slide on by – that is if one can get away from the larger and more crowded hotels, beaches and resorts. All of my visits to the 50th state involved business, with any personal time on weekends and during some evenings. Did get to experience each of the islands, but not as a tourist.
Pete at 6:58 PM today: Glad you made it in and not to worry about the barkeep on duty! So you came in while Ruth was here and wound up staying ‘til Leon took over. Nicely done! It’s going to take me some time to get through that fine Post of yours, so I’ll withhold my comments ‘til later . . . . Appreciate the business, as always!
Mike at 7:02 PM today: More URLs than one place can handle along with a narrative inclusive Post!
Leon- make it a coffee and a sandwich for this fine evening. Thanks
Well a quick note. Duluth is suppose to drop to -5 below with a wind chill of -20 below, tonight... cold!
Barndad- Well I'm glad you thought my post a "goody" I enjoy going down there to help out once in awhile on the layout. The Lionel Daylight article that you presented was quite interesting. 3200 dollars for a couple of F-units and a string of passenger cars is quite a lot of money. They aren't even brass!!! Thanks.
Also your joke is 10 on the groan-o-meter! that was funny
BK- The 2006 Lionel cover was pretty cool. Quite a change since 1952. A nice Milwaukee road 4-4-2 streamlined Baltic. I think I heard something about them coming out with the model.
Tom- Thanks for the low down on the mistaken boat train. I will be reading what DL has to say about it. BTW: Fitgers does ship. I would recommend trying the "Northland beer" They say it's there best. It also depicts on the front of the beer bottle a picture of the Northland Business car once owned by the Duluth, Missabe and Northern railroad. Now it runs with the NorthShore Scenic railroad in Duluth.
CM3- Thanks for the comments on the pics. The layout is coming right along. There is a center stage yard in the middle of the layout. That has all the passenger equipment along with Railway Express Agency building. Quite a good size building too. Also glad you liked the DL109. They are an ugly looking loco but I like them. I have two of them. There nice to run.
Pete- I enjoyed the Kansas City Station. I will be looking forward for more info on anything that pops up. Also the Irish run boat train site was really cool. I'm glad you posted it.
BTW: Glad you're enjoying the Fitger beers. I will lay off for another two and a half years. Untill then a coffee does me quite fine.
Eric- I wish the Milwaukee had Boat trains but alas, they did not. Glad you liked the layout pics. You know, I just noticed the car myself. The layout is set in the 1950s. It seems that the car is a little out of place. Hmmm The members probably liked the look of it.
Mike- As always, I enjoyed viewing all the pics you posted. The Pearle Harbor shots are really nice. I don't think I have seen these shots before. Nice attribute though. And to the railroads in Duluth, there were many. The Northern Pacific, Great Northern, Duluth Missabe and Iron range, The Duluth SouthShore and Atlantic, The Milwaukee road, Chicago & North Western, Soo Line, and the list keeps going. Almost all the railroads came to Northern Pacifics Rices Point Yard. Now BNSF. It was quite an operation going.
Rob- Glad you liked the EP-3 article, and the Theme for the Day. Alcos. Who wouldn't like an Alco. I think they are great locos. The chug they gave off is a sound like no other. If I see an Alco it's like a railroad dream, especially if it's running!
DL- Thanks for clearing the Boat train mistake up. I thought I had found one. But oh well, Atleast I know now what to look for. Thanks again
Friday at last with the promise of a warm-up coming, which hopefully will relax the hold of the ice shield on this part of mid-continent USA. Love the snow, love the cold temps, but no thanx to the ice.
Already experienced a loss of a Post this AM, so armed with a cuppa Joe and a bit of determination to get this finished – here we go again! <grrrrrrrr>
I see that the Mentor Village Bakery case is full of fresh pastries, the Menu Board has some fine <light> ‘n <traditional> breakfasts, and of course the coffee is freshly ground ‘n brewed. What better a way to begin the day, eh
I’ve gotten to the details of the Posts mentioned in my last narrative and want to add a couple of thoughts to Pete’s Post of last evening.
The mention of the MAGLEV link between the airport and rail station made me wonder – are things going backwards insofar as technology is concerned – meaning from MAGLEV to cable Wonder what happened and why Seems this technology, developed here in the U.S. back in the 70s I believe – has had many glitches in application along the way. Pity, for it apparently reads better than it runs.
Like those Lord Nelsons – powerful looking beasts with HUGE drivers.
Of course the “black box” exists to convert the power requirements for that Hornby train set your bride WANTS to purchase for you! It’s nothing more than a step-up transformer with a “twist” <grin> I recommend a well crafted search on the web, using www.dogpile.com and my guess is you’ll find it – use the advanced search feature.
Don’t get me started on outsourcing, a subject that infuriates me just to see the word! First time I saw evidence of the downward spiral this country had taken insofar as loss of manufacturing was concerned took place in the mid-60s while living in New England. Many, many small towns pretty much gutted of the livelihoods provided by the textile mills as those works were moved to the 3rd world countries. Then while living in southern Virginia, with many forays into the Carolinas on business and for pleasure, the same thing was happening as some of the plants previously moved from the north were being shuttered for relocation outside of the country.
And it continues into the 21st century with the “service industry” following along. <barf>
Just ticks me off and mid-Missouri has had it’s share of woes with the shoe and textile industries all but gone from this part of the country, not to mention the steel plants located on the Illinois side of the mighty Mississippi. Gone, gone and nearly all gone.
Enjoyed listening in on your conversations with DL 'n Eric – always enlightening and makes me very appreciative for having you guys as customers!
Noted the Post from James at 7:59 PM yesterday and note that you are encouraging bad behavior from Doug. You see the “groan-o-meter” has been unofficially retired – that is until SOMEONE decided to mention it and YOU picked up on it! <double groan>
By the by, it was BK who provided us with those two Lionel catalog covers . . . .
(which you have since edited, thereby skewing the ""latest post" to last night! Instead of the most recent! <grrrr>; so - by my editing this Post - things get back to normal! Get it <grin>)
I’ve been through your state a few times and stayed in Minneapolis, but never to Duluth. Always wanted to get up to that part of Minnesota, but for one reason or another, never have. Seen Superior from the Canadian side a few times, and have flown over it a few zillion times. Maybe one day . . . .
Appreciate the tip on the Fitgers Brewery, we now have a stock set aside in one of our refrigerated cars on our private siding. <grin>
Ruth comes in at 9 AM and stays behind the bar ‘til 5 PM when Leon the Night Man takes over ‘til closing.
Boris, serve ‘em all of the “spiked” OJ they can handle!
Tom
Thought I would drop by with a few comments this morning. Things here are cold, which is to be expected, not as much white stuff on the ground as one would expect, but there is sufficient evidence of winter in the mountains, no matter what the calendar indicates.
But first, Ruth a steaming mug of coffee with just a "splash" to make it interesting, a round for the house, and the change is yours!
My reading exercises were interrupted by an area-wide power failure, that put us in the dark for several hours. Fortunately, I was able to get our emergency generator on line shortly thereafter, providing the juice for the essentials, which in our retreat does not include computers. <grin> Therefore, I am rather far behind in my desire to catch up.
An observation reveals that when I first was welcomed to the bar over a year ago, only Tom, Rob, Nick, CM3, Doug and Pete remain from that group. Many have gone to other interests. The new crowd has made quite an impact and it is evident that the bar is chugging along as our Captain has designed. It is interesting to me how we have been able to maintain such a degree of continuity in spite of the massive changeover in clientele.
Does anyone know what has happened to passengerfan and West Coast S These two definitely marched to a different drum, as most of us do, and I am surprised they are no longer with us. Something happen that I missed or just another case of drifting away
Again, I am no way near acknowledging one and all, but do appreciate those of you who have kept me in mind as our orbits once again find themselves in synch.
I found a few more Lionel catalog covers and in spite of this not being the Toy and Hobby day, thought I would provide them thereby risking being "tweeted"! After all, it is the Christmas Season and I was told by many of those who helped make this place what it has become, that toy trains and Christmas go together!
1954 Lionel catalog
2005 Lionel catalog
I did manage to provide a couple of postings on your other thread and have noticed that things there are rather quiet, to be polite about it. <grin>
Hope to stop in over the weekend, but if not, for sure on Monday!
Ruth- Make it a coffee with a splash of Vanilla and a Sandwich, Please.
Tom- The groan-o-meter. Well as for being unofficially retired... Oops. But you have to admit that the joke was good!
I'm glad you liked the idea of Fitgers. It will make them quite happy to know another customer is happy.
I did get my post cleared up. I have BK noted for the Lionel posts. Sorry BK. I guess I got your name confused with Barndad.
I have a little something.
The Saint Paul Union Depot (sometimes referred to as SPUD) was the main train station in the city of Saint Paul, Minnesota until passenger rail service in the region was restructured in the 1960s and 1970s, with Amtrak taking over most passenger service in the United States. In 1971, Amtrak moved its rail service for the Twin Cities to Midway Station about halfway between the downtowns of Minneapolis and St. Paul. The entrance to Union Depot is considered a somewhat severe example of neoclassical architecture, with a number of tall columns in front. However, the concourse that extends out to platforms where trains once rolled in is considered to be one of the great architectural achievements in the city. The building was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1974.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pf024530-1-.jpg
The first Depot in 1890.
The former depot still exists, with a number of businesses using portions of the front area and the United States Postal Service using the rear train concourse as a staging area for semi-trailer trucks serving the neighboring post office. The USPS plans to move the current postal services to a bulk mail processing center in Eagan, Minnesota, which will make way for rehabilitation of the depot as a rail hub.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pf026545-1-.jpg
The Depot that stood in 1886
There have actually been two Union Depots in St. Paul. The first was completed in 1881, and combined the services of several different railroads into one building (hence the "union"; see Union station). In 1888 the old station had its peak year, handling eight million passengers. That year, about 150 trains departed daily. Around this time, the building was remodeled with a taller central tower and other alterations to the roofline.
The current structure was started in 1917, although it was not completed until 1923 because World War I caused construction to halt for several years.
The first locomotive to run in Minnesota, the William Crooks, was once displayed at the depot, though it now resides at a museum in Duluth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pf028093-1-.jpg
The depot that stood in 1925.
Rehabilitation of Union Depot to accommodate modern trains will likely cost $250 to $300 million. Plans are now being examined to incorporate the depot into future light rail and commuter rail projects, most likely becoming a transfer point between the Central Corridor and the Red Rock Corridor, should the lines ever be built. The station would probably also be used by any high-speed trains that came into the region, possibly as part of the Midwes
Forrest Gump (Tom Hanks) My mama always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get. That's kinda the way it is 'round here, from day to day, one never knows what we're gonna get or who is gonna show up.
So, Ruth, I'll have a frosty mug of Rheingold, a ham 'n Swiss hero with buttAH 'n mustAHd, a saucer of brine for Tex, a couple of packets of seed for Awk, a try of ice cubes for Frostbite, a ham bone for Juneau and a small jar of pickled pig's feet for Boris! <phew> <grin>
Good to see my "bookend" BK for two days in a row! I like those Lionel catalogs and since it is Christmas time, you can keep 'em coming as far as I'm concerned. Makes the place seem a bit more festive.
Emergency generators, a fixture in my house too. Wouldn't be without one and even if we go years without requiring its use, I always KNOW it's there if needed. Good planning!
Interesting that you mentioned the changes 'round this place since you first arrived, BK. I too have seen quite a turnover and while I really don't dwell too much on it, there are times when I wonder. Especially when I see the names of former customers show up on other forums and threads. Aside from that, hey, it's their choice. The ones that have always bothered me are those who haven't had the courtesy within them to let us know why they've left. Enough of that.
Nice submission from James today and definitely in keeping with the way things should operate around here. We surely don't have to schedule special days for this 'n that. A bit of spontaneous posting doesn't hurt. Speaking of James, I've been to Duluth aboard a laker. Way back when, and I mean way back, I had shipped out for a few trips aboard an ore carrier. Duluth was a good port and those that I met were fine people. One has to be a bit on the hale and hardy side to winter over in that part of the state!
Here's a book that Tom put me onto, one that has some great pictures along with everythign one might want to know and more about the trains of that era.
One more Ruth, then I better skedaddle. Things to do, as always and I gotta stay on the good side of the Mrs. these days! <grin>
Don't forget this is Pizza Nite along with Steak 'n Fries Nite! at the tavern by the tracks. begins at 5 PM sharp!
Not much going on, but thanx to BK, Lars ‘n James, the day hasn’t been totally quiet.
BK at 11:28 AM today: Many thanx for those Lionel catalog covers and of course they are very appropriate to the time of year!
I think the subject of guys no longer at the bar has pretty much run its course. No point in my adding to it. They are gone, we are here, so be it. But your point is well taken, there have been many changes in faces, but we've continued on with the way we do things. Last man standing, turn out the lights, lock the doors and put the key under the mat! <grin>
James at 2:02 PM today: To edit, or not to edit, that is the question! <grin> Just remember, that whatever Post is edited will automatically bring anyone logging in tto that place, rather than to the most current information. A glitch in the system.
Good stuff on the St. Paul Depot and I concur with Lars, it’s the kinda stuff we used to see ‘round here all of the time. Spontaneous input of Classic Trains info; good show!
Lars at 3:21 PM today: I’ve said it before and it bears repeating, the three of us surely do have more than a few things in common. Must’ve all been Boy Scouts – Be Prepared! Emergency generators should go with home ownership.
That Lionel book IS indeed a treasure. As chronicled on these Pages, I’ve used it many times to research this ‘n that. But more importantly to try and recreate the Lionel train of my long lost youth. Perhaps I’ll run those Pix again – maybe Sunday or Wednesday. We’ll see.
Enjoy the weekend one and all and keep in mind that tomorrow is ENCORE! Saturday and Sunday is our Photo Posting Day!
Leon, serve ‘em up a drink on the house and Boris ring the bell!
Good evening Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Leon, Steak and Bisquits, please. Coffee.
I missed last night and I will miss tonight. Have to go to bed early (a Friday night!!!) to be able to get up at 3 am tomorrow morning. Going to Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, CA tomorrow and should be back here Sunday with a report (and pictures).
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