"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and all! I'll have a light breakfast, and then I think I'm just nuts enough to see if I can get to work on my bike without getting caught in a thunder storm.

Glad you liked the Van Horne post Rob and Eric. Here's another bit of information to read with your morning coffee:

Taxes and a Silk Train from Railroad Stories Dec. 1935

Back in the ‘80’s the Canadian Pacific Railway owed the little village of Port Arthur, Ont. (then Prince Arthur’s landing), about fourteen thousand dollars in taxes on property and right-of-way. This sum was an accumulation of several years, pending negotiations between the town and the railroad. The C.P.R. was asking for tax exemption on the grounds of certain advantages it brought to the town, and the village retorted that exemption might be arranged if the company would handle all its freight over the Port Arthur docks instead of diverting a part of it to Fort William, the newer town springing up in the west.

William Van Horne, later Sir William Van Horne, president of the road, would give no assurances as to whether this request would be met, and the controversy entered the stage where neither side would yield an inch.

The taxes remained unpaid. The C.P.R. was billed and bulled, cajoled, written to and written at, but it refused to pay. Tax collector William Sydney Beaver was ordered by the city fathers to get the full amount or to seize the railway property to satisfy it. He acted promptly, with the usual thoroughness of Canadian officials.

Silk shipments from the Orient were then being routed to the East via Port Arthur. Mr. Beaver waited until a particularly valuable silk express stopped long enough to change crews and seized it in the name of the village. Telegraph wires buzzed. A town of a few hundred souls had the temerity to cross swords with the great national carrier!

The village was adamant. Pay up and it would release the train; no pay and it would stay there until hell froze over. Interest on a million dollars mounts up fast, and the C.P.R. would be held responsible for undue delays. The village became hard-boiled. When the officials of the railway finally agreed to pay, the tax collector would not accept a check now a warrant drawn on the home office. He demanded cash.

A hasty inventory of Port Arthur’s one and only bank disclosed twelve thousand dollars – two thousand short of the sum needed. Mr. Beaver wouldn’t take that either. Full payment or none was his dictum. After a frantic search, in which the C.P.R. employees were asked to contribute (as a loan, of course), the additional two thousand was raised. The full amount was paid and the train and its freight was released.

William Van Horne was furious. He never forgave Port Arthur. He informed the mayor and the council that he would live to see grass growing on its main streets. Keeping his word, next spring the C.P.R. routed all its freight boats to Fort William, and began the removal of its freight terminals from Port Arthur.

The feud grew by leaps and bounds. Port Arthur merchants refused to accept goods routed through Fort William. They notified consignors in both the Dominion and the United States that they also would not accept goods shipped on C.P.R. boats. This embargo had quick results and in two months, figuratively speaking, the railroad was on its knees to the town.

Then William Van Horne came to Port Arthur to see at first hand the little village that had defied his company. The city fathers were ready for reconciliation, but not at Van Horne’s price The removal of terminals to Fort William continued, but freight was routed directly to Port Arthur. This was a concession which C.P.R. had to make.

Today Port Arthur has a population in excess of twenty thousand, much larger that Fort William, but it still remains, so far as the C.P.R. is concerned, just a station in its far-flung system. The main station is a Fort William – R.A. Emberg.

[:I] Mr. Smith wanted to become a teacher in the worst way, but the only job he could find was as an instructor at an all female college teaching sex education. His wife was a very jealous woman so Mr. Smith decided he would tell his wife that he would be teaching sailing at this college so that she would not get angry. He was very happy and for months all was well. As fate would have it, one day in the grocery store check out lane, Mrs. Smith overheard a group of girls standing in line behind her talking about college and their instructor Mr. Smith. The girls went on and on about how great this Mr. Smith was at teaching their class. The cashier handed Mrs. Smith her change and said, "Have a great day Mrs. Smith, and thank you, again." One of the girls in line heard the cashier, and asked Mrs. Smith if she was related to the Mr. Smith that was teaching at the college. Mrs. Smith replied, "Yes, he is my husband." Well that set off a torrent of accolades about how knowledgeable Mr. Smith was about the subject matter he was teaching, about how he got the whole class to discuss their fears about learning the subject. Well Mrs. Smith was taken back by what she heard from these girls and replied, "I don't know how you find him to be so gifted at teaching you this course. You know he only tried it twice in his life. The first time he tried it, he got sick, and the second time, his hat blew off and he just quit." [:I]

[Anonymous]

Now take a look at a little something from my Lionel catalog!

Lionel Postwar Celebration Series from 1999 Vol. 1 Lionel catalog

We knew that the postwar period was one of the most studied and celebrated periods in our 100-year history. But we could never have predicted the enthusiasm with which this series has been greeted by the legions of people who so fondly remember the era.

Change is constant. We can’t stop it. And we really don’t want to. But Lionel trains have always been a medium for sparking our imagination and escaping the stress and anxiety of everyday lives. Your layout is your world. Nothing happens unless you want it to. You’re in control.

Which is why we wanted to recreate some of our favorite products from the postwar era. Reality will eventually make such a series impractical to make. Things like our Pullmor open-frame motors, for example, will eventually disappear from our factory floor. But until that day comes, we stand proudly behind our history and the products that define it. Call us old-fashioned if you must, we like this stuff!

So here it is – Volume III of the Lionel Postwar Celebration Series. Each re-creation has its roots in Lionel history, but has been improved to reflect the best of what we’ve learned since the original first graced our catalogs. Each product is decorated with a handsome builder’s plaque and comes in a unique Celebration Series box.

No club membership is required, but based on response to date, we strongly urge you to get your order in early.

Originally offered in 1953, this F3 proved to be one of our most popular locomotives. Not to be outdone is our classic Burlington GP-7, originally introduced in 1955 boasting diesel horn and Magne-Traction! Now they’re back! Available for a limited time – hurry in to your Lionel dealer!


In case you can’t read the small print, the Texas Special F3 and Burlington GP-7 units were $350 each. I had no idea that Lionel was making cars like these! Get your hands on a Lionel catalog, and I think you’ll be surprised to see what they’re marketing these days.

Now, this guy has a real problem

[Anonymous]

Good mornin' on this gloomy Thursday here in the Sunshine State. Tom, just a cuppa Joe for now and lots'a kudoos for The Pensy "Theme" which surprised so many. Rob, finally got my bearings and now may pass "GO" from the recent inundation. Apparantly, I'm not alone in "life boat" status of a "sink or swim" survivor.[:-^] The posts of early "risk takers" and "ram rods put forth by Doug and yourself surely brought us back to a time when "all things were possible." Or, at least, there were men still around with the imagination and the "grit" to make the impossible...possible.[tup] That spirit is lost to us with the ever paralyzing grip of bureaucracy, state controls and even "activists" groups plunging into areas of industry of which they are totaly ignorant.[tdn] Of course, that is a topic for another thread at another time, I suppose. The teams of Tom and Al (a.k.a George and Ira Gershwin) and Tom and Doug (a.k.a. Lerner and Lowe) have "done it again." Respectively, they are making the lyrics and melodies that keep "Our" Place Number One on the Kalmbach "Hit Parade," and the "tunes go on and on."[tup] X infinity.

The 9.1 on the Richter Scale Alaskan report by Cap'n Tom and earlier reports from our first Rendesvous up Toronto way should pretty well "nail down" the essence of regularly scheduled passenger service in the Northern Hemisphere. For anything comparable, it looks as though there would be great distances to cover for equal prospects.[V] Not by choice but neccessity, I must make this a brief encounter as the pace here has not lessened, nor does it appear it will any time soon.[V] The "Turbine" steam efforts of several Roads could be a Tome of input unto itself.[:O] Still, there are many other areas already touched upon (electrification, stainless steel cars painted over, Road's locomotive shops, terminals still in use or abandoned, et al.) any one of which begs expanding upon. But not now, so Boris pull the chain for another round, I'm late already. Not that chain you Ninny! Are you trying to turn Tex into a Arma***?[:(!]

[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM.
(All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Mid-week is upon us! C’mon in – enjoy a cup of freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – a <light or <traditional breakfast from the Menu Board and of course one or two goodies from The Mentor Village Bakery!



Daily Wisdom


I’m as red as a sheet.
ENCORE! Yogi-ism



Info for the Day:


* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Toy ‘n Model Trains Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday



MVP Award Winners

April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars
May – June . . To be announced


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Comedy Corner

SIGNS YOU HAVE GROWN UP!


1. You actually eat breakfast food at breakfast time.

2. "I just can't drink the way I used to," replaces, "I'm never going to drink that much again."

3. 90% of the time you spend in front of a computer is for real work.

4. You drink at home to save money before going to a bar.


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre


NOW SHOWING:
Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, June 25th thru July 1st: Blazing Saddles (1974) starring: Gene Wilder, Cleavon Little & Slim Pickins – and – Fierce Creatures (1997) starring: John Cleese, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Kline & Michael Palin. SHORT: Ants in the Pantry (1936).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, July 2nd thru 8th: 1776 (1972): starring: William Daniels & Howard Da Silva – and – The Patriot (2000) starring: Mel Gibson, Heath Ledger & Joely Richardson. SHORT: Movie Maniacs (1936).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 05:10:23 (364) Van Horne of the CPR, etc.

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 06:50:08 (364) Tuesday’s Info & 13-Post Summary

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 07:05:28 (364) ENCORE: RR from Yesteryear #3 – PRR

(4) passengerfan Al Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 07:21:45 (364) THEME: PRR streamlined dome cars

(5) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 07:29:48 (364) Bearman’s Inclusive Gulf Coast Report!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 07:48:52 (364) THEME: PRR GG1 Pix!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 10:12:53 (365) THEME: PRR S2 #6200 ‘n 2 Pix!

(8) BudKarr BK Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 12:15:56 (365) Mountain Report!

(9) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 15:13:56 (365) Island Report!

(10) passengerfan Al Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 16:38:18 (365) Comments

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 17:34:33 (365) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments & THEME: PRR Pix!

(12) wanswheel Mike Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 17:52:58 (365) Inclusive Post ‘n THEME: PRR GG1 URLs!

(13) West Coast S Dave Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 19:38:19 (365) Most Inclusive Left Coast Report!

(14) barndad Doug Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 20:56:08 (365) Barnyard Chat ‘n PRR P5As & Joke!

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 23:09:14 (365) Count Robulla’s Most Inclusive Nite Cap!



That’s it![tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for my usual cup of coffee and a crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

Eric, you asked a question about the size of the PRR streamlined fleet. By the beginning of the 1950's the streamlined fleet of the PRR was the largest. Not only did they operate streamlined cars coast to coast in cooperation with several western roads but they also operated streamlined cars that operated in ACL, SAL and Southern trains as well as N&W trains. By the early 1950's the PRR operated more streamlined trains than any other railroad. The one area the PRR never invested money in was streamlined Head End cars. All PRR streamliners operated with heavyweight head cars. The PRR purchased streamlined cars from Pullman Standard, Budd and AC&F and also built many of their own in the Altoona shops.

Even with the large numbers of streamlined cars owned by the PRR many trains operated with heavyweights in their consists until the early 1960's. It was only when passenger loadings dropped substantially that the PRR and other roads were able to begin retiring many heavyweights. This was not only true of the PRR but rival, NYC, B&O, E-L and most other eastern roads operated in the same manner. BVut not only was it was true of the eastern roads but also true of the western roads as well. The NP Mainstreeter comes immediatly to mind. It operated with heavyweight cars in its consists almost up to the BN merger. GN operated their Seattle-Portland service with mostly heavyweights until the BN merger as well. SP operated a number of trains with heavyweights still in their consists until they were discontinued such as the Argonaut and Owl. UP operated the Portland Rose and Idahoan with heavyweights in their consists as well.

TTFN Al

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Petrol dropped again to $2.73 (rounded) up at “Collusion Corner.” Down a couple of cents, then up a couple of dimes, figure that one out, eh [?] Still comfortable here in mid-continent USA, given that we nearing July. However, our WX men have “come through” with their dire predictions – hot, hot, hot is on the way and should change things by tomorrow. <groan>


Sounding like a broken record, beat goes on – Cardinals are in trouble as they dropped their 8th in a row – all to American League competition. This IS getting to be exasperating, for we KNOW the team is far better than the results have indicated. Oh well, they still are in 1st place – but how did they manage that, eh [?] Seems virtually all the teams in the NL Central have been getting some butt whooping by their AL counterparts, that’s how! <ugh>


Another interesting day at the watering hole yesterday as we wound up with 15 Posts (5 were mine) – which is really terrific. My benchmark is to stay within 1/3rd of the total – not half or more as has been the case numerous times. So it appears that our small group is answering the bell more times than not! [tup] [tup] [tup]

An observation: Lars you may want to check your 24-hour deodorant, for I’ve noted that several Posts have ignored your comments. Hmmmmm – as the commercials from long ago used to say, “Even your best friends won’t tell you!” <grin>


Have a few things on my plate for this day, so let’s get to the acknowledgments:

wanswheel Mike
Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 17:52:58

Nice blend of narrative & URLs! [tup]

Can’t speak for anyone other than myself – but dropping a few bucks in the direction of those sites that provide the Pix storage service doesn’t bother me in the least, especially given the enormous amount of photos I’ve stored. Appreciate the thought . . .

The trip through the Panama Canal probably would’ve been more memorable for me had it occurred at a later stage of my life. I think the return trip by train from LA to NYC via Chicago, by myself, was the real adventure. My father’s ship headed over to Japan, and he put me aboard a Santa Fe streamliner for perhaps one of the best times a kid could’ve had.


West Coast S Dave
Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 19:38:19

One of your most inclusive Posts in many a month! [tup] [tup] [tup] But ya know what [?] You forgot to greet the bartender and order a drink! Tweeeeeeeeeeet! Tweeeeeeeeeeet! Rules Violation – Rules Violation: Rules #1 ‘n #2 – failure to greet the bartender upon entering AND failing to order a drink! A trip to the Rat’s Patoot Room for you young fella, and some “practice dive bombing sessions” with Awk!! <grin>


barndad Doug
Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 20:56:08

Really enjoyed the bit on the Pennsy P5As – hadn’t thought about those in years. Thanx! [tup] A mighty fine road, that one, eh [?]


trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 27 Jun 2006, 23:09:14

My guess is that if we could all travel to all the places that we’d like to visit – that’s all we’d be doing! I’ve been most fortunate to have set foot on several continents – all the states – 9 of the 10 Canadian provinces and ridden some of the best passenger trains in North America. Traveling has been a way of life for me, and it began very early on. With a Merchant Mariner for a father and a long history of sailors in my family – guess it just was bound to happen.

Enjoy the holiday weekend! [tup]


EricX2000 Eric
Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 00:30:05

Good to see ya once again and enjoy your on-point commentary. Here’s a little something for ya from Wikipedia

QUOTE: The world's busiest railway station, in terms of daily passenger throughput, is Shinjuku Station in Tokyo, Japan. Ikebukuro Station, just minutes away, is the world's second-busiest.
The world's largest railway station, in terms of floor area, is Nagoya Station in Nagoya, Japan. However, the Nagoya Station complex incorporates two office towers and an underground shopping concourse, so the railway terminal itself is not large in comparison to others. Shinjuku Station is the second largest. In terms of platform capacity, the world's largest railway station is Grand Central Terminal in New York City, USA.

barndad Doug
Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 05:08:03 & 05:49:42

Two fine bits of reading material! [tup] [tup] I have always enjoyed the CP and have a couple of hardcover books in my modest library of passenger railroads. No doubt about it – the people behind the scenes of that road were truly the adventurous kind of their times! [tup]

Thanx for the Lionel “kick off” to our Toy ‘n Model RR Day! here at the tavern by the tracks! [swg]


Theodorebear Ted
Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 06:45:59

Another day another way to spend your retirement bucks! Ever think of it THAT way [?] I do! Easier to depart with the green than to replenish it these days, eh [?]

Always a pleasure to have you on board and I KNOW that Boris is happy to see ya! Especially in light of the disappearance of his “boss man,” Nick . . . ‘nuf said on that one.


passengerfan Al
Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 07:54:24

Anything on the Pennsy “does it” for me. Just love to put myself back in time . . . ahhhhhhhhhhhh. [tup] Good submittal this AM . . .


I see jlampke John peeking in from time to time – could it be that our Pacific sailor is about to check in [?]


That’s it for now. I’ll be behind the bar for the days! So, whatillyahave [?]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Wednesday means, Toy ‘n Model Trains Day! at the bar! Now, that DOES NOT mean one cannot Post whatever comes to mind – just that for those interested in the hobby, this is your opportunity to pass along some info ‘n a few (emphasis on “few”) Pix! [swg]


Today, my subject is the Lionel version of the PRR S2 steam turbine. Pix and a brief narrative of the prototype appeared on page 365 as the THEME for the DAY!


1948 Lionel catalog featuring the PRR S2 steam tubine



Background:

In late 1944, the Pennsylvania Railroad took delivery of its locomotive 6200. Authorized by the PRR Board of Directors on April 23, 1941, at a cost of $375,000, the revolutionary 6200 was jointly designed by the Pennsylvania’s own engineers, along with those of Westinghouse and Baldwin.

Rather than the conventional reciprocating drive used by steam locomotives up to that time, the massive 6-8-6 was powered by a geared steam turbine of the type found on shops and in power plants. The idea was to dispense with the uneven tractive effort of a conventional locomotive, as well as the “pounding of the rails” inherent with conventional engines. A large turbine propelled it forward, while a smaller one was installed to handle reverse movements.

Unfortunately, the 6200 was not successful, and it was the sole member of the Pennsy’s class S2. While extremely powerful and capable of high speeds, it had a voracious appetite for coal, regardless of speed, making it impractical at the slow speeds trains typically operate at, leading to its removal from service during the summer of 1949.


The Lionel S2

Lionel’s replica was almost as revolutionary and certainly was more successful. Created using all-new tooling, Lionel’s turbines (the O-gauge 671 and O27 2020) were the first electric trains with smoke generators. The 1946 versions of these engines were so radically different from those of succeeding years that they are dealt with as different models in catalogs and brochures.


O-gauge #671



027-gauge #2020



The die-cast boiler of the 671 was held to its chassis by three screws, none of which were visible when the locomotive was on the the track (in fact, no non-scale fasteners are visible with the engine of the rails).

Rather than the traditional slot with protruding E-unit lever, the three-position E-unit of the turbine was controlled through the cab by a plug and socket arrangement.

Prototypically, only a single side rod on either side connected the nickel-rimmed driving wheels. A wire handrail ran the length of either side of the boiler, and the locomotive’s number was rubber-stamped beneath the cab windows.

The armature shaft of the motor ran lengthwise of the locomotive and parallel to the track, unlike later models that were mounted at an angle. Through a spur gear arrangement, the motor drove a driveshaft, which through worm and wheel arrrangements, drove the first and last drive axles of the locomotive.

At the front of the chassis was mounted a die-cast smoke chamber that held a special bulb that was flattened on one side to form a reservoir to hold the smoke material. This bulb doubled as the headlamp, and transmitted its light through a Lucite prism out the decorative headlight at the top of the boiler front. Later, Lionel made available through its service centers a conversion kit to change this arrangement to the heater-type system indroduced in 1947.

The locomotive was supplied with a 671W whistling tender, although in 1946 this number was applied only to the box, not the tender itself.

credit: majority of material obtained from “Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1945-1969 – David Doyle”


Enjoy!


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[West Coast S]

morning Tom, so as not to violate the house rules once more, round of java, shaken not stirred! A night with Awk will cure anyone from straying from the straight and narrow...

Howdy Rob, I do still have Sunday off, typically my "honey Do" day, I can lure the wife with the offer of endless margeritas by the bay, while I go PE hunting!!!!

Doug... Taxes and the railroads, an endless evil cycle, over regulation and taxation darn neared killed off the American railroad in the 60's & 70's. The Staggers act was indeed a positive move...

Keeping with oddball power such as Turbines, how many are aware of the homebuilt example fielded by the Union Pacific.

In 1962, ever searching for more power and disatsified with GE at the moment, UP embarked on it's experiment with a pulverized coal fired turbine, a surplus Alco PA was chosen as the control unit, a former GN electric was obtained from the scrap head and gutted and rebuilt to house the Westinghoue turbines, BK inc. of stoker fame was contracted for the sprayers, auger system and control valves a long departed Challenger or Big Boy tender was used as the fuel/water source. When in operating mode the unit stretched over three hundred feet. The PA got the nod as traction motor capacity was ample to also power the turbine unit, as a hedge against failure the PA retained it's power plant, normally it was not on line when the entire package was operating properly. In stationary drawbar test the unit exceeded eight thousand horsepower and weighed close to a million pounds fully loaded.

he unit was a failure, pure and simple, the Lockead design blades could not handle the rigors of rail enviorment, this stymied all involved and as the debris found its way into the turbines, they would fail as well, often when in service , coal delivery also proved problematic, the fine powder tended to accumlate and clogg vital systems, if mositure was not removed a cement like substance would result, forcing shutdown of the unit before severe dammage resulted.

After two years of trying to make it work, UP abandoned the project, the Alco was traded in to EMD, the turbine unit and tender were scrapped, after retrieving all that could be of possible salvage.
UP returned to GE, this time abandoning the thought of a steam turbine for a radical double diesel based upon common if not somewhat troublesom, unproven technology, the era of the double diesel was on hand.


Enjoy the day

Dave

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Couldn't let the day pass by without jumping the "case" of our Left Coast patron with the hat pulled down over his brow! I think he's undercover today - which accounts for the coffee - ONLY! Now, that'll cost ya five bucks, Mate! Yup - five smackeroos for java ONLY. Purchase food, the coffee and soft drinks are FREE. Drink 'em bareback - they cost a fin! Tilla 'n Cashinator express their profound regards and appreciation! Kaching - kaching . . . [swg]

Now, here's a couple of Pix for ya, in reference to your UP steam turbine input . . .

CLICK to enlarge

UP Turbo #80 (courtesy: donsdepot.donrossgroup.net)


UP Turbo #8080 (courtesy: donsdepot.donrossgroup.net)
]

QUOTE: The final effort at turbine power was built in the Omaha company shops. The foundation for this coal fired unit was a retired Great Northern electric locomotive. It was built by General Electric in May, 1947, #28448, as Great Northern 5018, Class W-1, and purchased by UP in September, 1959. The front unit, which provided hostler power and control, was a PA1 which was built by Alco in January, 1949, #76311, as UP 607. The diesel was numbered 80 and the turbine unit was 80B. The whole rebuilding took place in October, 1961. In 1965 these units became 8080 and 8080B to make room for DD35s. The effort was given up in March, 1968. The diesel was traded in to Electro-Motive, May, 1968, and the turbine was scrapped at Omaha in April, 1968.

Check the remainder out at: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr068.htm

Boris Ring da bell - Dave's buying! [tup] [yeah] [wow]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[LoveDomes]

G'day Captain Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

Set 'em up barkeep! Drinks on the Larsman! and I'll take a JD on the rocks for starters . . .

With all the precip we've had lately, it's been quite a test for our refurbished basement wall! Still holding . . .

Lionel brings to mind a steam loco that I used to drool over as a kid - the Hudson. For some reason, this was my favorite. Check out this pix just found on the net . . . .

Lionel Hudson #2056 4-6-4


Can well imagine what one of those beauties sells for these days amongst those who dabble in that online auction house - eBay. No thanks, I'll pass.

Ever wonder what future generations of boys will look back upon as their favorite toys [?] Electric trains had to top the list from my era. How in the world can anyone get all nostalgia bitten by a hand held computer toy [?] <ugh>

Checked my under arms B4 coming through the doors and it seems I passed the "test"! [swg] Hadn't noticed the "slight," until you brought it up . . . but what the "H," I'll stick with my anonymity . . . <grin> Some guys DID make mention of my existence - and to them, I offer "thanks and praise!" (Borrowed from a recent Sunday morning sojourn . . .)

Nice work with the Lionel stuff Tom and Doug . . . looks like this idea of a mid week Toy & Model RR fest is hanging in there. [tup]

Dave I had heard a bit about those UP turbines and for a time, if my memory is working properly, they were on the line. I'm not sure about the era - but that URL Tom provided shows quite a span of years. To harness the potential of a turbine is indeed the way to go. Too bad the PRRs S2 never quite made it for she was an awesome beast of a machine.

Did I read Rob's comments correctly - he's leaving for a "weekend" jaunt in mid week [?] Now, THAT's the way to begin a weekend for sure! Those Canadians know how to do it. [swg] So, a Happy Canada Day to you up there in Ontario. [tup]

I'll take another "hit," if you please, barkeep - then head on out. One of those days where if I don't drag my sorry butt off the stool, I'll wind up sitting here 'til the wee hours, and wouldn't that be a shame [?] <girn> Haven't done that in ages . . . I'm overdue!


Until the next time!


Lars

[wanswheel]

Good afternoon Tom and everyone, a round for the house.

Make that 2 rounds for the house if Dave is buying. As soon as I said "technical" he went for the turbine. I've heard of turbine. Couldn't define it offhand, but probably could guess it on a multiple choice quiz.

It is good news indeed if John is in the area. Hope to see him stop in soon.

For a change of pace, let's skip the urls today because I've done some typing. This year is the 150th anniversary of the first railroad bridge across the Mississippi at Davenport, a fact which induced me to search for a picture of it. In the process I found an old Railroad Magazine for sale on ebay, which astoundingly mentioned my great-uncle Dan in the table of contents, so right there I had to register with ebay, etc., and make my first and so far only purchase of anything online. From that is this:

Street Railway and Interurban Listing (Railroad Magazine, January 1948)

With the many changes now taking place in the field of local electric railways, including abandonment of several lines, a new and revised list of operating lines is in order.

Since our last complete listing in the December, 1945 issue of Railroad Magazine, three more states have added themselves to the five that were then without railway lines. These are Idaho, which saw the end of interurban service on its Utah-Idaho Central line on February 15, 1947; Mississippi, whose electric freight line, Gulfport & Mississippi Coast has been Dieselized; and Tennessee, where Knoxville Transit ran the last streetcar in the Volunteer State on last August 1st. The five states which were without electric railways at the time of our 1945 list, were Delaware, Nevada, New Mexico, South Dakota and Wyoming.

There are additional abandonments in progress on other lines, but we have tried to keep the list of roads and their trackage as exact as is possible under present changing conditions. If mileages appear slightly in error, it is the result of approximation. Those electrics which give freight service only are indicated by an (F) following the name of the place where they operate.

UNITED STATES

Alabama
Birmingham Elec. Co., Birmingham, 120

Arizona
Phoenix St. Ry., Phoenix, 8

Arkansas
Capital Trans. Co., Little Rock, 21

California
California St. Cable RR., San Francisco (cable), 11
Central Calif. Tra., Sacramento, (F), 4
Key System Trans. Lines, Oakland, 186
Los Angeles Trans. Lines, Los Angeles, 325
Mun. Rys. of San Francisco, San Francisco, 300
Pacific Elec. Ry., Los Angeles, 800
Petaluma & Santa Rosa, Petaluma, (F), 5
Sacramento Northern Ry., Sacramento, 250
San Diego Elec. Ry., San Diego, 30
Tidewater Southern Ry., Stockton, (F), 5

Colorado
Denver & Intermountain Ry., Denver, 25
Denver Tramways, Denver, 120
Ft. Collins Mun. Ry., Ft. Collins, 7
Southern Colorado Power Co., Pueblo, 28

Connecticut
Connecticut Company, New Haven, 80

District of Columbia
Capital Trans. Co., Washington, 165

Florida
St. Petersburgh Mun. Ry., St. Petersburgh, 28

Georgia
Georgia Pwr. Co., Atlanta, 125

Illinois
Chicao, Aurora & Elgin, Wheaton, 103
Chicago, N. Shore & Milwaukee, Highwood, 265
Chicago Rapid Trans., Chicago, 242
Chicago, South Shore & South Bend (see Indiana)
Chicago Trans. Authority, Chicago, 1000
Chicao & West Towns, Oak Park, 25
Illinois Term. RR., Springfield, 491
Rock Island Southern, Galesburg, (F), 21
St Louis & Belleville Ry., Belleville, (F), 18

Indiana
Chicago, S. Shore & South Bend, Michigan City, 163
Cook Trans. Co., Evansville, (F), 2
Evansville & Ohio Valley, Rockport, (F), 13
Indianapolis Rys., Indianapolis, 75
Twin Branch RR., Mishawaka, (F), 3

Iowa
Cedar Rapids & Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, 44
Charles City Western, Charles City, 25
Des Moines & Central Iowa, Des Moines, 80
Des Moines Ry., Des Moines, 50
Ft. Dodge, D.M. & Southern, Boone, 186
Iowa Elec. Light & Pwr., Boone, (F), 1
Iowa Transfer Ry., Des Moines, (F), 4
Mason City & Clear Lake, Mason City, F, 19
Omaha & Council Bluffs St. Ry. (see Nebraska)
Sioux City Trans. Co., Sioux City, 48
Southern Iowa Ry., Centerville, (F), 27
Waterloo, Cedar Falls & Northern, Waterloo, 128

Kansas
Hutchison & Northern, Hutchison, (F), 6
Kansas City, Kaw Valley RR., Bonner Springs, (F), 42
Kansas City Public Service (see Missouri)
Kansas & Missouri Ry., Kansas City, (F), 21

Kentucky
Cincinnati, Newport & Covington, Covington, 25
Louisville Ry., Louisville, 20

Louisiana
New Orleans Pub. Service, New Orleans, 90

Maine
York Utilities Co., Sanford, (F), 2

Maryland
Baltimore & Annapolis RR., Annapolis, 42
Baltimore Trans. Co., Baltimore, 275
Capital Trans. Co. (see D.C.)
Potomac Edison Co., Frederick, 40

Massachusetts
Eastern Massachusetts St. Ry., Quincy, 11
Metropolitan Trans. Authority, Boston, 343 (elevated lines 58, surface lines 285)

Michigan
City of Detroit, Detroit, 350

Minnesota
Filtration Plant Ry., Minneapolis, 2
Minneapolis, Anoka & Cuyana Range, Fidley, 5
Twin Cities Lines, Minneapolis, 445

Missouri
Illinois Terminal (see Illinois)
Kansas City Pub. Service, Kansas City, 175
St. Francois County RR., Farmington, (F), 10
St. Louis Pub. Service, St. Louis, 300
St. Louis Water Works Ry., St. Louis, 8

Montana
Anaconda St. Ry., Anaconda, 12

Nebraska
Omaha & Council Bluffs St. Ry., Omaha, 100
Omaha, Lincoln & Beatrice, (F), 10

New Hampshire
Claremont Ry., Claremont, (F), 6
Springfield Terminal Ry., (see Vermont)
Uncanoonue Incline Ry., Goffstown, 1

New Jersey
Atlantic City Trans. Co., Atlantic City, 53
Hudson & Manhattan, Jersey City, 20
Philadelphia Trans. Co., (see Pennsylvania)
Pub. Service C. T., Newark and Union City, 80

New York
Hudson & Manhattan, (see New Jersey)
International Ry. Co., Buffalo and Lockport, (F) 100
Jamestown, Westfield & Northwestern, Jamestown, 35
New York City, Trans. Sys., New York, 1033 (subway and elevated 633; surface 400)
Niagara Jct. Ry., Niagara Falls, (F), 30
Queensborough Bridge Ry., Long Island City, 2
Rochester Trans. Co., Rochester, 33
Staten Island R.T., St. George, 97
Third Ave. Trans., New York, 175

North Carolina
Piedmont & Northern Ry., Charlotte, 29

North Dakota
Valley City St. & Int. Ry., Valley City, (F), 2

Ohio
Cincinnati, Newport & Covington, (see Kentucky)
Cincinnati St. Ry., Cincinnati, 220
Cleveland Trans. System, Cleveland, 300
Columbus & Southern Ohio, Columbus, 25
Community Tra. Co., Toledo, 45
Cooperative Trans. Co., (see West Virginia)
Marion Reserve Pwr. Co., Reese, (F), 10
Ohio Midland Lt & Pwr., Obetz Jct., (F) 50
Shaker Heights R. T., Shaker Heights, 26
Toledo & Eastern, (F), 11
Youngstown & Southern, Youngstown, 25

Oklahoma
Sand Springs Ry., Sand Springs, 32
Tulsa-Sapulpa Union Ry., Sapulpa, (F), 15

Oregon
Portland Trac. Co., Portland, 93
Walla Walla Valley Ry., (see Washington)

Pennsylvania
Altoon & Logan Valley, Altoona, 37
Conestoga Transp. Co., Lancaster, 8
Johnstown Trac. Co., Johnstown, 42
Lackawanna & Wyoming Valley, Scranton, 42
Lehigh Valley Trans., Allentown, 120
Philadelphia Suburban Transp. Co., Llanerch, 51
Philadelphia Transp. Co., Philadelphia, 617 (elevated lines 42, surface lines 575)
Philadelphia & Western RR., Norristown, 37
Pittsburgh Railways, Pittsburgh, 544
Reading St. Ry., Reading, 10
Scranton Trans. Co., Scranton, 40
West Penn. Railways, Connellsville, 131
Wilkes-Barre Trans., Wilkes-Barre, 17

Rhode Island
United Elec. Rys., Providence, 25

South Carolina
Piedmont & Northern, Greenveille, 101

Texas
Dallas Ry. & Terminal Co., Dallas, 100
El Paso City Lines, El Paso, 16
Houston North Shore, Houston, 27
Texas Elec. Ry., Dallas, 199
Texas Transp. Co., San Antonio, (F), 1
Waco Trans., Waco, 4 (operates over TE trackage)

Utah
Bamberger Railroad, Salt Lake City, 64
Salt Lake, Garfield & Western, Salt Lake City, 21

Vermont
Springfield Terminal RR., Springfield, (F), 6

Virginia
Capital Trans. Co., (see Washington, D.C.)
Roanoke Ry. & Elec., Roanoke, 15
Virginia Trans., Norfolk and Richmond, 100

Washington
Walla Walla Valley Transp. Co., Walla Walla, (F), 33
Yakima Valley Transp. Co., Yakima, (F), 20

West Virginia
City Lines of West Virginia, Clarksburg, 25
Cooperative Trans. Co., Wheeling, 40

Wisconsin
Chicago, North Shore & Milwaukee, (see Illinois)
City of East Troy, East Troy, (F), 7
Milwaukee Elec. Ry. & Tr., Milwakee, 275

CANADA

Alberta
Calgary Trans., Calgary, 75
Edmonton Radial Ry., Edmonton, 48

British Columbia
British Columbia Elec., 300
Nelson Street Ry., Nelson, 3

Manitoba
Winnipeg Elec. Co., Winnipeg, 65

New Brunswick
New Brunswick Pwr. Co., St. John, 21

Nova Scotia
Nova Scotia Lt. & Pwr. Co., Halifax, 27

Ontario
Cornwall St. Ry. Lt. & Pwr., Cornwall, 10
Ft. William Elec. Ry., Ft. William, 21
Grand River Ry., Preston, 18
Hamilton St. Ry., Hamilton, 43
Lake Erie & Northern, Preston, 51
London & Pt. Stanley, London, 47
Niagara, St. Catharines & Toronto, St. Catharines, 80
Oshawa Ry., Oshawa, (F), 22
Ottawa Elec. Ry., Ottawa, 49
Port Arthur Civic Ry., Port Arthur, 20
Sudbury-Copper Cliff Suburban, Sudbury, 8
Toronto Transp. Comm., Toronto, 250

Quebec
Montreal & Southern Counties, St. Lambert, 63
Montreal Tramways, Montreal, 279
Quebec Ry. Lt. & Pwr., Quebec, 48
Shawinigan Falls Term. Ry., Shawinigan Falls, (F), 17

Saskatchewan
Regina Mun. Ry., Regina, 30
Saskatoon Mun. Ry., Saskatoon, 29

Newfoundland Lt. & Power., St. Johns, 3

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Car Barn Comments by Steve Maguire (Railroad Magazine, January 1948)

In the midst of the rather gloomy news concerning electric railways which we have had to report since the end of the war, comes an indication that the defects of bus operation are beginning to become evident in those places where they have supplanted efficient and capable electric lines.

For instance, in Los Angeles where the Transit Lines, a subsidiary of the indicted City Lines trust, recently made wholesale and totally unwarranted substitutions of buses on several heavy and important rail lines, the worst tangle in the history of the city came about as a result. But despite requests from the press and the public for restoration of rail service, the LATL has hurriedly ripped up every bit of rail on its private track, thus forestalling an attempt to require them to restore service.

However, plans for rapid transit by rail to the important outlying portions of the suburban areas are being seriously considered by the city. The plans involve double-tracked right-of-way lines built in the center of proposed highways, with operation by Pacific Electric. So, at present it appears likely that in view of the experience to date with the Transit Lines bus service, a group of rapid transit lines may be built into the outlying portions of Los Angeles.

Farther north, in Oakland, Calif., another plan for rail rapid transit is being seriously considered by representatives of the city, county, and local Chamber of Commerce. The proposed railway lines would connect the outlying suburbs of Oakland with the center of that city and would provide a rapid means of entry, via rights-of-way over existing rail lines and over new rail to be constructed. Said Harold D. Weber, former manager of the Oakland Chamber of Commerce, "No area has had optimum development with dependence on motor buses."

In Detroit, the Motor City, the city-owned transportation system is having its headaches, too. Even while plans to abandon all except one rail line to buses are being carried through, the rise in price of gasoline, once 10.8 cents per gallon and now 14.5 cents, threatens to put bus operation in the red. General Manager Sullivan, who once said buses would be cheaper to operate than streetcars, is now forced to admit, "A one cent increase on a gallon of gasoline will put the DSR in debt."

In other words, Detroit can get ready for another fare rise --to be paid by the public. The DSR transport men guessed wrong, but John Q. Public is going to pay as usual.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see why they put Lincoln on the penny. In it's day it was the coin that people had to watch.
Mike

[West Coast S]

Tom, ouch, a fellow can't catch a break!! Ok I've got lunch covered for the next five hours, that should make Till 'n cashinator pleased, kkk-ching!!!

I've been of the opinion that the S2 failed due the inception of the diesel, Pennsy truly had a gifted engineering staff. I've read that fuel consumption was to biggest drawback to a sucessfull design.

Tom, that's the monster, for such a one off, amazed so much has been published on it..

Lovedomes, UP operated several classes of turbins, they began arriving in 1951, GE had a demo the #51 operating in 1948, UP took a liking to it, but did not need a cab on both ends, UP ordered a dozen and specified that unused cab space be used for fuel storage, the outside walkways gave name to this class as Veranda's additionaly they had the ability to live on a grade of diesel fuel aproaching crude oil, very cheap in those days.

Noise was the overall objection and the necessity to shut the plant down when not in operation, UP/GE installed 300hp diesel engines for standby power and oil line heaters,, thus elimating the many oppertunitys to surprise those unaware of of the finer points of turning over a dead cold turbine with the resulting explosion when not done correctly or in proper sequence.
They possed a BB+BB wheel araignment, thus they tracked and rode very well, continual upgrades netted 5000 to 6000hp. Early on auxliary fuel tenders were provided and connections for operation with diesels was provided for. On districts with tunnels, it was forbidden to double head these untis, the lead unit would consume all the available oxygen and starve the second, second reason being a single unti was capable of hauling the standard tonnage of the time and could do so with authority.

The next group arrived from GE in 1959, they were light years ahead of the Verandas, most of which had been returned to GE for parts salvage and inclusion into the new design, with a CC wheel araignment and 7000hp on tap in a massive three unit set, over fifty were delivered by 1962, these proved extremely reliable and could operate in MU with any diesel in the fleet or each other and served until 1971, some remained in storage into 1973.


Well that about sums the UP turbine history, time to go back into hiding, where's my hat?? BORIS, BORIS....

Dave

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and a round please. I will try the Fish,N,Chips later.

I am still catching up with the posts I missed while away.Gentlemen they are really great posts I am up to Page 353 and I will be posting more when I am up to date.

I managed to leave the roll of film in the UK but my mate has sent it and I will get it put on disc so I can show them.

Congrats MIKE on your Reserved stool and I,m glad you had a great time in Alaska TOM.

Thanks ALL for the posts it is well worthwhile to read them all. PETE.

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house. Well have been digesting our new budget that passed last night first on time state budget in I believe 18 years and this an election year at that.

Lots of money for highway repair and expansion and believe it or not $13 million to start acquiring right of way down the Central Valley for the High Speed Rail Service. I don't think thirteen Million will buy much right of way even in the Central Valley but at least it kept High Speed Rail alive in the state where it's needed most. They are still undecided whether it will operate on steel rails or whether it will be Magnetic levitation. Either way one propsal is that it will have its own electrical source in place when it is built combining Energy and transportation dollars together. This will be the first positive step as to actual route.

TTFN Al

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and friends! I'll take the usual bottomless draught and buy a round for the house. Looks like lots of great information today on all sorts of subjects, and I will be back to read everything thoroughly, and respond appropriately, but please allow me to make a quick post, as we have to be off to TaeKwonDo .. so please keep the beer cold, and the vittles hot until I return!

In 1957 this beautiful passenger set was introduced in legendary Lionel “Super O”. It soon proved to be extremely popular, boasting many Lionel breakthrough features such as diesel horn sounds and Magne-Traction. Now the Canadian Pacific Luxury Liner is back! Available for limited time only – hurry to your Lionel dealer! $1,300


Originally offered in 1954, the Lackawanna Trainmaster was touted as real, top-level railroading! Boasting features like Dual Pullmor power, Magne-Traction and a diesel horn, this power giant was a Herculean puller. It’s now back, better than ever! $600


Three of our favorite Postwar era items. 1953 Executive Inspection Car ($130), 1955 Bay Window Caboose ($80) & the 1954 Barrel Car ($60) are back!


The new Have Freight set – most wanted cars in railroading. Originally offered in 1956, this exciting freight set will make a great addition to your new Haven EP-5. This set is loaded with some of our all-time most requested themes. $350



The Seaboard Freight Set – In 1951 this freight set debuted as part of an awesome work train. Now you can add these classic Lionel freight cars to your Seaboard Switcher. $300



[:I] Man Gives Up On Women
June 27, 2006 - Atlanta, USA
Atlanta native auto mechanic Michael Ross publicly declares that he has given up the life long struggle to figure out what women really want. This came after a recently published report estimating American corporations had spent over $1 billion dollars in 2005 to determine what want women want from their products and marketing, and had largely failed. "If combining rooms full of highly skilled experts and truckloads of money can't figure these women out, how on earth is the typical blue collar man with $28,000 after tax dollars a year supposed to?" said Mr. Ross during an interview with Atlanta news reporters. "It may be that these women themselves have no idea what they are looking for or what will win them over. Many admit to having the exact same qualities in one man be endearing, while in another, off-putting." Mr. Ross's web site has generated over 32,000 letters of support from other men in its guest book since his announcement earlier in the day. [:I]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Quite an interesting day at the tavern by the tracks - good stuff all around from Lars - Mike - Dave - Pete - Al and Doug - appreciate the business - KaChing - kaching! [swg]

Something quite different from our resident URLMeisterMonsterMike - NO URLs! For the traction and electric fans out there - be sure to make a copy of the articles provided by wanswheel Mike! Enjoyed the final comment - a penney simply isn't worth a dime these days! [swg] (That's NOT from "Yogi" - it's mine!)

Appreciate having you aboard for your customary afternoon time slot, Lars. Appears that things are getting back to normal 'round the place with you resuming your spot at the bar. [tup] Perhaps you may wi***o consider getting rid of the "foo foo" you are using, Tex has developed an allergic reaction to it! <grin>

NICE Lionel Hudson! [tup] One of my favorites as well . . . I had the S2 steam turbine (as most already know!).

Dave I think your take on the S2 may be just one factor - the primary one, as documented in my Posts - had more to do with gross inefficiency at slow speeds. Anyway, an interesting subject and some good stuff regarding those UP turbines. [tup]

Pete's back! We'll fry up a batch of fish for ya - even though Wednesday's the kitchen is closed! [swg] No sweat - just let Boris know when you're ready . . .

Al At least there's forward momentum out your way for the future of mass transportation . . . that speaks highly of those who make things happen. [tup]

Nice collage of Lionel ads, Doug! Took a bit of time to load - and that surprised me - but I'm seeing more 'n more of that lately. Anyway, thanx for the great input for our Toy 'n Model RR Day! [tup]

REMINDER:
Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good evening again Tom and gents! Did my beer stay cold and bubbly? Well, it really doesn't matter. I'll just quickly drain it and order another! I brought some Michigan quarters for Her Wurlitzer.

Looks like the main subject turned out to be related to turbine power. I peeked at E-Bay, and they have one like Tom's available for only $600! Lars' Hudson is holding at about $227, which is actually kind of tempting! Take a look! http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-Prewar-003-2-Rail-OO-Scale-Hudson-5342-Box_W0QQitemZ120000475742QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4978QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Nice article on the coal fired turbine Dave, and it looks like Mike's been taking some typing lessons with his railway closings post.

I hate to tell you guys this because it's so painful, but the cheap gas places out here want $3.10 tonight! Guess I'll be riding my bike just about all the time if this keeps up! At least prices have been holding steady at Our Place .....right Tom?

[siberianmo]

Hello Doug

That's an interesting Hudson on the URL you provided - a 2-rail version in OO-gauge at that. I'm not a fan of eBay or any other online auction house. No thanx. However, they are probably the only source remaining for someone like me to recreate the trains of my childhood . . .

Petrol up at "collusion corner" rose to $2.88 rounded when I filled up the wagon this AM. As I said earlier - drops a couple of cents, rises a couple of dimes - go figger . . . [tdn] $3.10 sounds like some "planning" for the 4th of July get-aways . . . and "they" tell us things like this don't happen - yeah, right! [tdn]

Appreciate the quarters! [tup]

Don't want to jump the gun, but the Cards are up 3 to 1 in the 6th as they try to end the longest losing streak (8 games) since 1988. Cleveland has some decent pitching and looks like they could easily be in it if not for the success of the Tigers - and it's a "given" that the ChiSox will go down to the wire.

Catch ya in the AM!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon, a crown for me this evening if you please, oh and here's another 20 in case a round is needed later on this evening.Quite the day here at the ole watering hole I must say,good to see so amny of the regulars and the irregulars if you look at Boris stop by.

doug Loved the silk train article. Those silk trains on the CPR were the train if you wanted to tweek the nose of the CPR that was the train to target. Interesting that likely the town had the last laugh anyway, both were almalgamted into the city of Thunderbay and continue to get service from 3 Railways including the CPR. Van Horne's likly rolling over becaus eof that one. Is it me or are the prices of Lionel just a tad on the insane side[:O] i just don;t see te reason as to why there is such a price disparity, espeacially with everything being made overseas now. [tdn]

Eric Thanks for that url link [tup][swg] nice to see what good clean country air can do for the young of today eh [?][:-^]two yeasr as a strreetcar conductor likley gives you a tall tale or two to share.Nice to hear that such an extensvie light rail system is being concidered for the Phoenix area. I would think though that the old burried rail will be not usable. The yeasr of temp changes and the weight of the blacktop anf the traffic above will likely have flattened out it's profile.I remeber that CN basicalyy did the same thing with the vast majority of the NS&T's city trackage once it was abandoned permanenetly. I can remember watching a constructuion crew two years ago in St catharines removing the 85lb trolley girder rail from St Paul Street finally after 50 yeasr of it being blacktopped over. The local hobby shop bought a couple hundred feet of it and cut it into 6" door stops, sold them for $20 bucks a pop. Now that's recycling.

Mike Great list compilation there sir.that's likely the last year 1948 that NA could bost that many interurban and street railway operations still running at least some sort of schedule. By the mid 50's I would have to say that 80-90% of those roads were gone, or in their last gasps of running under the wires. lots of familiar names in that list, both cities and railway companies. It really puts it all into perspective. thanks for sharing that. [tup]

Lars Yup you heard right. Once works done for both of us tomorrow we are heading northward for 4 days or so. I'm sure that you guys wil keep the ole homefires burning. No Boris. Moron he sprayed me with the extinguisher. Bad Boris [alien] back to your shed you foul creature.BTW have a great independance day as well. Remember keep the fireworks away from teh Mentor Viliages Zepplin sheds. [:O][xx(]

Dave and Tom Nice exchange of ideas on the turbine power from the days of yore on the UP. One has to wonder ... why [?] One things certain if it wasn't for UP's quest for the big power for Sherman Hill Overland would have nothing to make expensive brass models off LOL ( my bit of model railroad stuff today )

Tom Thanks for that photo url. That gentleman has quite the collection of railshots. that's definatly a bookmarker for future reference and use.

Pete H&H have taken over the fish frying duties. So the beer batter is of a more bavarian flavour now.The downside to this is that the traditional sides of mushy peas, has been replaced by various kinds of saurkraut.Takes some getting use too, that and the lederhosen the girls wear while,they are cooking ( there ought to be a law ) glaad to see that you are slowley catching upto the pack. there has been quite alot of good info these last few weeks. Which is of coarse why we keep on comming back to this here best little part of te Kalmbach forums.


Rob

[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM.
(All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Thursday and we’re nearing week’s end! C’mon in – enjoy a cuppa freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee – a <light or <traditional breakfast from the Menu Board and one or two pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery!



Daily Wisdom


I’m so hungry right now I can’t even look at food.
ENCORE! Yogi-ism



Info for the Day:


* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday



MVP Award Winners

April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars
May – June . . To be announced


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Comedy Corner

SIGNS YOU HAVE GROWN UP!

1. You no longer take naps from noon to 6 PM!

2. Dinner and a movie is the whole date instead of the beginning of one.

3. Eating a basket of chicken wings at 3 AM would severely upset, rather than settle, your stomach.

4. If you're a gal, you go to the drug store for ibuprofen and antacid, not condoms and pregnancy tests.

5. A $4.00 bottle of wine is no longer "pretty good stuff."


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

NOW SHOWING:

. . . Sunday, June 25th thru July 1st: Blazing Saddles (1974) starring: Gene Wilder, Cleavon Little & Slim Pickins – and – Fierce Creatures (1997) starring: John Cleese, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Kline & Michael Palin. SHORT: Ants in the Pantry (1936).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, July 2nd thru 8th: 1776 (1972): starring: William Daniels & Howard Da Silva – and – The Patriot (2000) starring: Mel Gibson, Heath Ledger & Joely Richardson. SHORT: Movie Maniacs (1936).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) EricX2000 Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 00:30:05 (365) Early, early AM or Late Nite Inclusive Post!

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 05:08:03 (365) Comments ‘n Taxes and a Silk Train & Joke!

(3) barndad Doug Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 05:49:42 (365) Lionel for Toy ‘n Model RR Day & funny!

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 06:45:59 (365) Bearman’s Inclusive Gulf Coast Report!

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Jun 2006 , 07:05:45 (365) Wednesday’s Info & 15-Post Summary

(6) passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 07:54:24 (365) for Eric – PRR streamlined car info

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 09:03:59 (365) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 12:27:37 (365) Lionel’s PRR S2 steam turbine 6-8-6

(9) West Coast S Dave Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 12:36:51 (365) Left Coast mid-week visit ‘n UP Turbo info

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 13:35:18 (365) for Dave w/2 UP Turbo Pix!

(11) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 15:23:08 (365) Island Report ‘n Lionel Pix!

(12) wanswheel Mike Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 16:08:11 (366) Street Railway and Interurban Listing & Car Barn comments

(13) West Coast S Dave Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 16:16:11 (366) UP turbines, etc.

(14) pwolfe Pete Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 16:34:31 (366) Catching up

(15) passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 16:57:48 (366) Left Coast transportation info

(16) barndad Doug Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 17:39:41 (366) Lionel Ad collage ‘n Joke!

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 19:31:19 (366) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments

(18) barndad Doug Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 20:36:49 (366) Chat ‘n URL

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 20:47:07 (366) for Doug

(20) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Jun 2006, 23:15:14 (366) Count Robulla’s Nite Cap!




That’s it![tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and gents. I'll be needing two light breakfasts today, thanks. Just two more days at work, and then I think I don't have to work (at work) until Wednesday. Hard to know for sure, because the maintenance guys are working on the water system that keeps our machines cool, which is work that would normally shut us down. This has to be done by opening time Wednesday, without fail.

I never mentioned it, but among the items we found at this farmhouse, was a box of train models. I haven't had the chance to really take a look, but there's definitely a B&O HO scale steam engine in there. I doubt there's much to really get excited about, but free is good, no matter what!

Ya'll have a great day. I have relatives, including my parents, in town, and there's a get-together tonight before most of them head for the big family reunion in Rochester Indiana, 'Round Barn Capital of the World." Here's a little picture of ours:

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

As the end of the week arrives, so have the high temps – we’re heading back to the 90s (F) today – higher for tomorrow and the weekend. <ugh> Already mentioned the prices up at “Collusion Corner” - $2.88 (rounded) and my guess is it will rise to meet the “expectations” for holiday travel. [tdn]


Cards win! Cards win! Cards win! The 8-game losing streak is O-V-E-R as the Indians of Cleveland handed a victory to the home team, after having a near-victory handed to them! The 5-4 victory in the bottom of the 9th was one of those games that apparently no one really wanted to win. U-G-L-Y comes to mind. [tdn] However, a win is a win and they now sit out the day for a most needed respite from the wars of baseball.


For whatever the reason, couldn’t get that URL to load of the “babes’ from Sweden. Being your basic old fashioned guy – I’ll stick to my imagination! [swg] Belated THANX to Eric.


If I had the money of Royalty, I’d buy up all of those great looking trains shown in the catalog ads provided by Doug. Then, I’d hunt down the trains of my youth in order to recreate what once was. Of course I’d have to purchase the neighbor’s property – knock out a basement wall – expand the Can-Am Trainroom, etc., etc. If only one could have the money of Royalty. <grin>


A most comprehensive list of electric railways provided by Mike – well worth saving. [tup]


Appreciate the Email responses from all who are interested in the 2007 Second Annual “Our” Place Classic Trains Rendezvous in St. Louis!
At this stage of the planning, the next update should come along in about a month. Keep thinking, guys – the input really will be of benefit to all. [tup] REMINDER: Anyone out there interested in attending our Rendezvous and joining in on the planning for it needs only to notify me by Email to get on “the list!” [tup]


Nothing like have something to look forward to, eh Doug [?] 4-day weekends are “keepers” fer sure, fer sure! [tup] A box a model trains [?] Can’t leave us hanging with just that – need more descriptions, condition, Pix [yeah]! [swg]



That’s it for now. I’ll be behind the bar for the day! So, whatillyahave [?]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang Time for a cup of coffee and the usual crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

Interesting posts on some of the trains from old, especially the prices. That is why I collect RR books ,dont have the room for electric trains so collect books. Looking at prices of RR books that are long out of print it is no wonder that this is one of the more expensive parts of our hobby.

Personally having over ten thousand books and periodicals in my collection surprises even me sometimes. I have just about entered the collection on computer disc for insurance purposes and keeping track. I have ordered more than one copy of a book on at least three occasions. Was at a RR show several years ago and bought three identical books at a ridiculous price and put them in my collection. Recently kept the best copy and sold the other two for thrice what I paid for all three. Found out long ago that just because it is old does not make it collectible. Of course my personal interest is passenger trains and the cars and probably have an excellent collection on that subject. Over the years I had collected a number of other railroad books and sold them off last year. Many were collectible and I was satisfied with the price I got for them. Gave me more room for books I really want to collect.
Also RR Videos and newer DVDs are collectble as well. Mine are only related to passenger trains or RR history and are for my personal enjoyment for now.
The important thing is in this day and age insurance is very important to cover whatever we collect. No I am not an insurance man but collections need to be covered and are not always covered under your household policy so a rider is necessary.

TTFN Al

[Anonymous]

Well, first of all an apology for the "time warp" yesterday.[:O] As most of my Puter time is work material one day in advance; I took my own pre-dated text "for real." Dum-de-dum-dum (Dragnet Theme circa 1950's T.V. series). Tom, that Cinnamon Sticky Claw looks to good to pass up, thanks for the Juan Valdez too.[^] Wow, a good out pouring of data and pix on the steam generated ilk of power on several Road's. In Today's world of computer generated hi tech models, i.e. scenarios, projections, etc.; we may wonder how such hypothetical experiments could get past the "drawing board" stages.[banghead] Especially, when you consider the huge cash investments and the length of time involved; we may wonder...why? Well, "the best made plans of mice and men" rule applies when engineering is still limited to the slide rule, calculators and drafting boards. It is to the credit, rather than shame, that the innovative management of these Lines took the initiative they did.[2c] Hey, look what exquisite detail resulted for added interest to the otherwise austere lines of the modern diesel.[swg] Seriously, when that period of bold "risk taking" ended in the U.S. rail industry, so did the "industry."[xx(] Rob, a salute to you and best thoughts for "Canada Day." Enjoy! Doug, fine entries on the Lionel S2 and capturing treasured memories of that era.[tup] Are you sure that is a cattle barn? Hi Pete, so good to have you 'round the premieis again. The Bathams inventory will now return to proper levels.[:D] Looking ahead to see your pix from abroad with baited breath. A friend of mine will be taking the same excursion train you did this coming September. I'll go into more detail later.

So what is Theo doing here this late in the morning? It is mana from heaven when things at the "head shed" go awry. Chalk it up to a "goody, goody for me!"[^] Hey Lars, glad to hear there is no need for a "thumb in the dike."[tup] Maybe decent help is still "out there" after all. Good "shot" of the Lionel Hudson for the ocassion..."Ah yes, I remember it well"[:D] Mike, I echo Tom's observance of a "job well done" on the 1948 roster of the street car, cable car, freight and interurban service remaing in the continental U.S.[^] This is definetly a "keeper" for my traction files. Incidently, your fortitude for signing in on e-bay shows a lot more "pluck" than I can muster.[:D] Also Tom, that is one heck of a web site for further study on steam generated power, many thanks. Yeah Dave, U.P. heard from is always a treat hereabouts; definitely the West Coast's counterpart to the Pennsy and N. & W. R.R.'s forward thinking and planing. That is in spite of U.P.'s somewhat tarnished reputation among R.R. Buffs of today's harsh critics. Al, $13 million is a mere pittance for anything like a serious prospectus for high speed rail. It sounds more like placating the "nuisance factor" of future nagging public transport realities for the region.[2c] Eric, if you know of a URL inre: Stockholm area electric street transportation, could you post it some time in the future? Okay Boris, all is forgiven let's let bygongs be bygongs.[}:)] Happy rails all.

[trolleyboy]

A qiick good morning folks. Tom I'll leave a sacl o cash beside the bathtub to fund some rounds while I'm away.But for now I think a number three and a thermos of the coffee.

Al Thank-you sir my wife no longer slaps me when I look at a perspective new book for my collection ( I'm only at 244 ) so i figure that now she has no basis for complaint as I'm not even close to 300 yet LOL. I'm amazed that you have only had one incident of duplicating I've done it twice [:(]Now wioth me about half the collection is train related or traction related and the other half his maritime / naval / and military history.

ted thanks for the happy returns for Canada day. The same right back atcha for the 4th of July. Just remember aim the fireworks away from anything important ( your layout ) [swg]

Tom I imaginre that the fuel prices are do to climb around here over the weekend as well ( but no, there is no price fixing. [;)][:-^] ) .

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Well since this will be my last post for about 5 days, I will leave you all with another small,now gone and forgotten steam railway from Northern Ontario.

CLASSIC STEAM # 30 The Nip & Tuck or The Bruce Mines & Algoma RY

For many people that live in Northern Ontario, the dependancy on a railway for travel and resupply is not that far distant of a memory. In fact the Algoma central and the Ontario Northland still cater to toens that othetrwise are only accessable by float plane.Somw rail lines , however are so far back in the shroud of time that they can only be remembered by very few local residents, as is the cas e with the Nip and Tuck.


The Nip and Tuck, or The Bruce Mines and Algoma Railway

The Nip and Tuck ( not the original name ) but the nickname given to it by the locals, who saw this little line running through barren rocky land ,with little hope of any kind of ecconomic survival.The line actually was called several names officially. The first was in 1898 when it was called the Bruce and Copper Mines RR. This company operated a large stamp mill and coal dock in the town of Bruce Mines,whish were conected ( town and the mill ) by a mile of railway.A year later, another copper mine openned, this one on the shores of Rock Lake about 15 miles north of Bruce Mines.Here there was a large mill, a station, and a small townsite, all located about 2 miles from the mine.To ship out the mineral,the company incorporated a railway and named it the Bruce Mines & Algoma Railway. The Southern terminus was two miles north of Bruce Mines on the CPR's Algoma Branch, a route which had been put through from Sudbury to Sault Ste Marie about 15 years before.

But a terminus that haulted such a short distance shy of the lake made little sence,so in 1903, the BMA was extended to the shore where it established a jct with the BCM. With two large mines on it's route the success of the BMA seemed assured.But that would not be the case. the Bruce Copper Mines (BCM) shipped little by rail, and in 1903 the Rock lake mine closed. This left the BMA to haul a few farm and forestry products south, and coal from it's coal dock to the CPR.

By 1904 it had lost over $5000. But closing the line wasn't in the cards at least not yet.In 1904 the BMA got the unimaginable: permission to build north,not just to connections with the transcontinental routes of the CPR and Canadian Northern,and to the not yet finished ( as yet to be built )National Continental but north to James Bay itself !

Although some surveying was done, the lines two engines collided head on, killing one crew and with it the expansion plans.From 1905-1912, it was officially listed as an inactive railway, but not yet abandonned.Then, unexpectadly, things began to look up. Near the town of Bruce Mines a new rock quarry openned up. the only access to was along the old BCM, which happily the BMA owned.

Full of hope, they purcahsed three new locomotives and gave itself another new name, the Lake Huron and Northern Ontario Railway. Shortkly afterward another large customer came on board, the Mond Nickle Co which owned a smelter at Victoria Mines, far to teh east of Bruce Mines.Mond wasn't interested in thier copper though but the more common qaurtz of the quarry as it was used for furnace flux.Soon the trains were rolling back upto Rock lake, although theb road bead was uneven, and the bridges were rickety to the point that the train crews would not stay onboard while the engines crossed the bridge. Instead the fireman would cross the bridge ahead of the train and climb back on bopard and stop it once the engine was accross. He would then wait for the engineer to come accross on foot and rejoin him.

It was a sign of things to come. Profits did not materialize as hopped and in 1917 amounted to a mere $1600.To pay off the mortgage however, the proffits needed to be $35,000.In 1921, when the Mond mine closed and Victoria Mines became a ghost town, the Nip and Tuck closed down as well.Rail remained in place until the 1930's, afetr which the ROW was sold off to the adjacent land owners.


Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Some activity this morning and especially good to see in light of CM3 Shane's absence . . . . [tup]

Been playing catch up with my archives - trying to get that "leg up" for weeks to come. Only way to ensure that there is original material to Post. ENCOREs! have their place and play a role, however, always good to interject some fresh "stuff"! [tup]

Hey Ted I'm the guy who has provided all of the PRR S2 turbine Posts these past 2 days! [yeah] I know, we all "look alike" eh [?] [swg] Happens when one is as "old as dirt," so I'm told. <grin> Anyway, nice job with the acknowledgments! [tup]

An interesting bit of conversation from Al regarding collecting and collectibles. I really, really have to get serious about "lightening the load" once again. Far too much crap being kept for the sake of keeping it. I have boxes of model RR brochures, flyers and the like from back to the mid-60s that just must go. And, NOPE, I'm not interested in pushing them on eBay - had a sorry experience with those people once (I discussed it a couple of times on these pages) and just don't like the way things unfold with that outfit.

Anyway, with a life of being part-Gypsy, I've developed some habits that have indeed kept the excess material to a minimum. However, now that I'm retired - here we go again. It's easy to do, eh [?] I have a friend and neighbor who probably will have a coronary when he sees this stuff sitting curbside for the trash people. Maybe I should get him to pencil me in for some of his "stuff"! <grin>

Have a great get away, Rob! We'll be here upon your return . . . . [tup]

Don't even want to talk about Petrol prices - just heard over the air waves that oil is over $72 (US) per barrel - isn't this ridiculous and darnright infuriating [?] I mean there are places in this world where entire economies are on the brink because of this. Further, I understand that certain countries - China being in the lead - are paying far less per barrel than the "OPEC hostage states" - supposedly have a sweetheart deal with their newfound friends in Iran. Oh joy. So what does all of this have to do with trains [?] We'd be far better off riding in them than in automobiles! Too bad our leaders cannot understand that . . . <groan> <double groan>

Okay Gents, I'll be here for the remainder of the day . . . .

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[LoveDomes]

Greetings Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

Didn't think I'd make it in today - been THAT kinda day around my digs - "stuff" happening.

How about a cold frosty bottle of Schaefer and a pound of those pretzels and nuts you've got sitting at the other end of the bar! [swg] Here's a couple of ten spots for whenever a crowd develops and you'd llke to provide a round on me! [tup]

I'm not very talkative today - but I have taken in the posts since my last visit. Amazing how the diversity continues on - so much info and really so little time to digest it all (for some of us, that is). I think the best approach to taking full advantage of all the great material on this thread is to create some discs and download the special stuff onto them. Shouldn't be all that hard to do . . . Then one day, who knows how much one could "get" from the people who frequent places like eBay and the like. [swg] Just kidding - really wouldn't mind creating some disc archives - just may look into it.

So, we're going to be without our "Canadian connection" for a bit, huh [?] Been there, done that and we've made it. Hope you have an enjoyable and restful time of it. [tup]

Appears as if my "bookend" is away for awhile too. Well, he said that would be the case - so perhaps we'll get a "Mountain Report" tomorrow. [tup]

My Mets took in on the chin from the BoSox and Pedro looked awful too. Last time I checked they had a 12 game lead - so a couple of losses here and there surely won't hurt . . . Don't know what it is about Boston and New York when it comes to baseball, but there is a deep seated, outright dislike for one another - whether it be NL or AL. I don't recall the old Boston Braves having such a "thing," perhaps it's just the way our society has evolved (or is it, devolved [?]).

Picked up on your comments regarding China, oil and Iran. The people with blinders on are going to be in for a rude awakening once they start to really flex their muscles. I'm one who thinks we haven't seen the beginning of tough times yet.

Hey Tom I enjoyed all the stuff provided on those Lionel trains and the "real" turbine S2 from the day before! [tup] The conversation that ensued from Dave shed a bit of insight into the use of those turbines as well.

We've been truly fortunate that the basement situation is holding tight. For one more episode like the one of a few months ago, and we'd be outta here. Just about fed up with a few things going on, so it wouldn't take a lot in my present mindset. [tdn]

The description Rob provided about the preparation of the "Fish 'n Chips" darned near made me gag! How did those two creatures of Rob's imagination wind up in the kitchen [?] Speaking of all of that - seems that a reorganization of sorts needs to take place since the joint no longer has a Chief Chief or a Manager. I'll throw my hat in the ring for the latter, if one is needed, that is. However, let's get those "H&H" lovelies packing! [swg]


Ok - enough jabber out of me. One more brew and I'm heading back down the road . . . .


Until the next time!

Lars

[LoveDomes]

Hey Gents!

My Post Script - Here's where my mind is today!


California Zephyr - Post 1960 obs dome lower level lounge
(from: www.calzephyr.railfan.net - Public Domain)



Now, THAT's much bettAH!


Until the next time! [tup]


Lars

[West Coast S]

Top of the day Tom, Round of house draught with a flank steak, medium rare, and all the usual trimmings, heck a plate for all who frequent here this afternoon.

Howdy Love Domes, glad you found the Turbo info informative, let's go to the next level, a proposed Turbine powered by a nuclear reactor, indeed, GE and the Atomic Energy Commision explored such a concept, it would have been a massive machine and the technological challenges would have been enormous and costly for a indvidule railroad to develope on it's own. A complete set of blueprints were produced and a full size mockup of the reactor and shielding compartment constructed to test the practacality of developing a compact reactor similar to the design the Navy was employing on the first Atomic Subs.. Although testing proved the concept of a reactor on rails feasible, the enormous weight proved impossible to overcome, second, the all powerfull Admiral Rickover of the AEC killed all support and would not endorse any project that distracted his department from the singular goal of fully developing a nuclear Navy..

Rob, we can do obscure..

The Pittsburg and Antioch was a five mile standard guage line built to serve the Clayton Coal mine, constructed in 1885, it served as a conveyor belt for transporting coal fromt the mine face to a tidewater tipple for transfer to ocean bound colliers. Built from the cheapest of construction materials and techniques and wholly owned by Black Diamond Minning, earning a profit was not a concearn. Power would be borrowed from the SP or SF with no particular favorite, a fleet of homemade coal gondolas rounded out the fleet. As the upper San Pablo Bay was improved by the Army Corp Of Engineers, it was far cheaper to ship raw coal in for the massive steel works then depend on low yield local sources, by 1918 the tiny line was abandoned, a portion survived until recent times, having been retained by the Army at the long abandoned Camp Stoneman site. No trace remains and only a couple of photographs exist , aptly named Railroad Ave. in Pittsburg Ca., which was constructed adjacent to the right of way is the only reminder that once coal was the lifeblood of this community...


Ted, Can't forget that the C&O also put a steam Turbine into service, you'd love the movies I have of the N&W Jawn Henry along with the incredible A, Y's in action, if not for the SP, N&W would be close second for sheer appeal and raw example of American industrial might.


Until later

Dave