"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[Anonymous]

A very good Tuesday morning to one and all. Tom, I think a tall grapefruit juice and a toasted Bagel w/cream cheese should do it, thanks. Agreed, not everything could be limited to the URL references. There wouldn't be much to "kick around," would there? Still, if there was a "hypothetical" choice between a full page "data dump" in long hand or clicking back and forth on a URL well, my choice would be the latter. Mind you, that is for data and "stats." only. Naturally, the "personalized" or "narrative" style with plenty of information to hand, is ideal.[2c] The equivilent of reading 2 full issues of "Classic Trains" before a member"s obligatory reply; makes for a loooong "sit" at the C.R.T.[:O] Like anything else, the "common sense" factor prevails. As A. Lincoln once said: "Common sense, isn't all that common."[:D] Oh yes, I mailed out all the dope on "Our" Place to the gentleman I met last Sunday but haven't received anything positive. I've got my "fingers crossed."

Hey Lars, thank you for the promotion to 3rd. Officer. Coming from the "Head Shed," it is a hon(u)r indeed. Sorry though, I must resign the Commission before the ink is dry. Seems there is a problem from having retired as an enlisted Master Sergeant some 15 years previously.[swg]

Pete, thanks for clearing up some vagueries on the DMU classifications. I rode what appeared to be a earlier versin of the M5-1625 on my visit to Erin's Isle. Also, between Cork and Cobh (Queenstown) there were excellent rail connections under catenary. I tried to get a classification for both units but the replies were only road numbers, etc. Glad your M I Law was tolerant for your taking a photo or two. Looking forward to seeing them, next time. The exchange you are having with Nick on any number of U.K. Roads and rolling stock is really bearing fruit and helpful to neophites like me.[tup]

Rob, your 3-stage post yesterday covered more ground than I will be able to distance this a.m.[tup] The only "ground" I must cover will be the I-State very, very soon.[V] You and Tom have mail today in response, thanks again for your previous respective input.

There are some "thunder boomers" headed this way and we need the rain desperately. I must place "discretion before valor" however and make this a wrap for now. Happy rails all.

[siberianmo]

[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Railroads from Yesteryear –

Chicago, Burlington & Quincy CB&Q) –

The Burlington Zephyrs arrives on track #1 at 10 AM today –

(A TWO-PART Post)

WATCH FOR IT!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

[siberianmo]

Now arriving on track #1 …..
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Eighteen


PART I of II


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


The Burlington Zephyrs




Pioneer Zephyr



The Pioneer Zephyr as it appeared in 1934. (Fair Use)

The Pioneer Zephyr is a diesel-powered railroad trainset (a set of railroad cars permanently coupled together) built by the Budd Company in 1934 for the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad (CB&Q), commonly known by the shorter name of Burlington. The train, which featured extensive use of stainless steel, was originally named Zephyr and was meant as a promotional tool to advertise passenger rail service in the United States. The train's construction included innovations such as shotwelding (a specialized type of spot welding) to join the stainless steel, and articulation to reduce the train's weight.

On May 26, 1934, it set a speed record for travel time between Denver, Colorado, and Chicago, Illinois, when it made a 1,015-mile (1,633 km) non-stop "dawn-to-dusk" dash, covering the distance in 13 hours 5 minutes at an average speed of 77 mph (124 km/h). For one section of the run, the train reached a speed of 112.5 mph (181 km/h), just short of the then-US land speed record of 115 mph (185 km/h). The historic dash inspired two films and the train's nickname, "Silver Streak".

The trainset entered regular revenue service on November 11, 1934, between Kansas City, Missouri, Omaha and Lincoln, Nebraska. It was operated on this route until its retirement in 1960 when it was donated to the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago where it remains on public display. The train is generally regarded as the first successful streamliner on American railroads.

Concept and construction

In the early 1930s, the U.S. was in the depths of the Great Depression. Without the money to purchase new goods, freight trains weren't hauling as much as they had in the previous decade. People who couldn't buy goods also couldn't afford to travel to the extent that they had before, so passenger revenues were also down. Even if they did have the money to travel, the equipment that railroads were using to carry passengers hadn't changed much since the middle of the 19th century. Railroads needed a way to re-energize the traveling public and offer a bit of hope for the days to come.


The engine in the Pioneer Zephyr (Wikimedia Commons)

One of the railroad presidents who faced this challenge was Ralph Budd, formerly of the Great Northern Railway and now president of the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad (Burlington), who needed a new train to get the public interested in traveling again. The name of the new train came from The Canterbury Tales, which Budd had been reading. The story begins with pilgrims setting out on a journey, inspired by the budding springtime and by Zephyrus, the gentle and nurturing west wind. Budd thought that would be an excellent name for a sleek new traveling machine – Zephyr.

In 1932 Ralph Budd met Edward G. Budd (no relation), an automotive steel pioneer who was founder and president of the Budd Company. Edward Budd was demonstrating his new carbody construction in a prototype rail motorcar built of stainless steel. Stainless steel provided many benefits over traditional wood and hardened steel for railroad carbodies; it was a lighter and stronger material, and its natural silver appearance and resistance to corrosion meant that it wouldn't have to be painted to protect it from the weather. Since the carbody was much lighter than similar cars, it would be able to haul a higher revenue load for the same cost.

The problem with building stainless steel cars was that nobody could find an adequate way to hold the body together, until the Budd Company patented the shotwelding technique. On August 20, 1932, Earl J. Ragsdale, an engineer at the Budd Company, filed for a patent on "Method and product of electric welding"; on January 16, 1934, the United States Patent and Trademark Office assigned U.S. Patent 1,944,106 to the Budd Company to cover the technique. Basically, because of the nature of stainless steel, traditional welding methods would unacceptably weaken the metal at the joint. In a shotweld, the two pieces of metal that are to be joined are pressed together at the joint with an electrode on each side of the joint. A very high current of electricity is passed through the joint which effectively fuses the two pieces of metal together.


The driver's controls for the Pioneer Zephyr. (Wikimedia Commons)

Another factor in making the Zephyr lighter than conventional trains was that the individual carbodies in the train share their trucks with adjacent cars. The train was essentially three articulated compartments. On conventional passenger cars, each carbody rode upon a pair of trucks (wheel/axle assembly), with one truck at each end. The articulation not only reduced the number of trucks under the train, but it also dispensed with the need for couplers between each of the carbodies, further reducing the train's weight.

The first Zephyr was completed by Budd Company on April 9, 1934, powered by an 8 cylinder, 600 horsepower (447 kW), 8-201-A model Winton Motor Company engine (the train's prime mover). Like the diesel-electric locomotives that would soon displace the steam locomotive on American railroads, this engine powered an electrical generator; the electricity it generated was then fed to electric traction motors connected to the axles in the train's front truck.

The exterior design of the train was left to aeronautical engineer Albert Dean who designed the sloping nose shape, with architect John Harbeson and industrial designer Paul Philippe Cret devising a way to strengthen and beautify the sides with the train's horizontal fluting.

The RPO section of the Pioneer Zephyr (Wikimedia Commons)

The train's engineer sat in a small compartment in the nose of the train, directly in front of the prime mover. Behind the engine in the first carbody was a 30-foot (9.1 m) long railway post office section. The second carbody consisted of a small baggage section and a short buffet and 20-passenger coach section. The third and final carbody in the train, as it was originally built, was configured as half-coach (40-passenger seats) and half-observation car (12 passenger seats). As built, the train had 72 seats and could carry 50,000 pounds (22.7 tonnes) of baggage and express freight. This train's official christening occurred on April 18, 1934, at the Pennsylvania Railroad's Broad Street Station.

The Budd Company used the experience learned in building the Zephyr to build similar trains (such as the Flying Yankee) for other railroads, as well as a number of additional Zephyrs for the Burlington.

Promotion: "Dawn-to-Dusk" dash

To catch the public's attention, however, this train wasn't simply rolled out of the factory for some dignitary to smash a bottle of champagne on its nose; it would make a dash from one end of the CB&Q, in Denver, to the other in Chicago. The railroad spared no expense in planning the operations. All other trains along the Zephyr's route were diverted to sidings and the turnouts were spiked into the proper alignment for the Zephyr's run. Track and maintenance of way workers checked every single spike and bolt along the train's route to ensure that there would not be any problems, and temporary speed signs were installed along the route to warn the Zephyr's driver of curves that would be dangerous at high speeds. On the day of the dash, every road grade crossing was manned by a flagman to stop automobile traffic ahead of the train and to ensure that the crossing was clear. Stations along the route were protected by local police officers and members of the American Legion and the Boy Scouts of America.

The train left Denver at 7:04 AM Central Daylight Time and arrived in Chicago at 8:09 PM, a total of 13 hours and 5 minutes later, at an average speed of 77 mph (124 km/h). For one section of the run, the train reached a speed of 112.5 mph (181 km/h), just short of the then-world land speed record of 115 mph (185 km/h). The non-stop 1,015-mile (1,633 km) trip exceeded the railroad's expectations by making the run one hour and 55 minutes faster than was scheduled. Reporters along the route told of the "silver streak" that ran by faster than any other train that normally rode American rails at the time. The Burlington's contemporary passenger trains plied the same distance in around 25 hours.

Riding the train for this run were Ralph Budd, Edward G. Budd, president H. L. Hamilton of the Winton Motor Company (at that time a part of the new General Motors Electro-Motive Division), a number of reporters, some Burlington employees, lucky members of the public, and Zeph, a burro that was contributed by a Colorado newspaper, the Rocky Mountain News, as a mascot for the train. The newspaper had described Zeph to the railroad as a "Rocky Mountain Canary" so the train's crew had originally planned only enough space for a birdcage; when they found out it wasn't a bird, the railroad hastily built a pen in the baggage section and bought some hay for it. When asked about the burro, Ralph Budd replied "Why not? One more jackass on this trip won't make a difference."

After the train arrived in Chicago, it traveled a little farther to the 1934 Century of Progress fair (noted in some press articles about the dash as the "Chicago World's Fair") where it was put on public display on opening day. After its display on the Wings of a Century stage, the train was taken on a 31-state, 222-city publicity tour. More than 2 million people saw the train before it entered revenue service.

Part of the tour included a test run between Chicago and Minneapolis-St. Paul that operated a full five hours faster than the Burlington's fastest steam-powered train along the same route. Due to the Zephyr's success on this test run, the Burlington immediately ordered two more Zephyr trainsets that would be dubbed the Twin Zephyrs; the new trains debuted in April 1935 on this route.

Regular revenue service


Commemorative postal covers that were carried aboard the Pioneer Zephyr for its first revenue run (November 11, 1934) and as it crossed the one million mile mark (December 29, 1939). (Fair Use)

The Zephyr's power (leading) car was numbered 9900, the baggage-coach combine car was numbered 505, and the coach-observation was numbered 570. The trainset was placed in regular service between Kansas City, Missouri, Omaha and Lincoln, Nebraska, on November 11, 1934, replacing a pair of steam locomotives and six heavyweight passenger cars. The Zephyr replaced a train weighing up to eight times as much. By June 1935, it proved popular enough to add a fourth car to the train's regular configuration, providing additional coach seating. The fourth car was originally a 40-seat coach number 525, but the following June was switched to Twin Cities service, then back to the Pioneer Zephyr in December. Car 525 remained on the train until June 1938. Just over five years after it was introduced, the Pioneer Zephyr crossed the one million mile mark in regular service on December 29, 1939, near Council Bluffs, Iowa.


Burlington Zephyr passengers arriving at Chicago's Union station (Public Domain)

Ralph Budd and the Burlington capitalized on the Zephyr's success. However, most passenger trains needed larger capacity. Thus, as the Burlington made a transition to larger diesel-electric locomotives pulling individual passenger cars, new streamlined cars of standard-size were ordered, which quickly became the standard of many railroads. However, Burlington was determined to be the leader, and ordered its large "E" series passenger diesels to also be equipped with matching stainless-steel fluting. Many of the Burlington's long distance named passenger trains began operating under the Zephyr banner, including the Nebraska Zephyr, Twin Cities Zephyr, and perhaps the most famous of the namesake, the California Zephyr.

On the second anniversary of the train's famous dash, the original Zephyr was rechristened as the Pioneer Zephyr to distinguish it as the first of the Burlington's growing Zephyr fleet. In 1938, car 525 was replaced with car number 500, a 40-seat buffet/lounge car to provide light meals during the train's travels. Car number 505, the baggage-coach combine, was also rebuilt at this time into a full baggage car, but it kept the windows as they were originally installed.


Burlington Zephyr passenger train approaching station and waiting passengers at East Dubuque, Illinois (Public Domain)

In regular service, the Pioneer Zephyr had its share of accidents on the railroad. In 1939 it was involved in a head-on collision with a freight train that completely destroyed the trainset's control cab. The trainset was rebuilt and re-entered revenue service soon afterward, but the accident strengthened the opinions of locomotive designers to move the cab back from the front of the locomotive up above a large nose (as can be seen in the EMD F-unit and EMD E-unit series locomotives).

Since the Pioneer Zephyr was built of stainless steel, which is not as recyclable as aluminum, the train was spared from the metal recycling drives of World War II. By contrast, Union Pacific's M-10000 was built of aluminum and was scrapped in 1942 for the war effort, among other reasons.

In 1948 and 49, the Pioneer Zephyr was temporarily removed from service to participate in the Chicago Railroad Fair's "Wheels A-Rolling" pageant. The fair's purpose was to celebrate 100 years of railroad history west of Chicago, and Pioneer Zephyr's role in the pageant was to highlight the latest strides in railroad technology. It resumed regular passenger operations when the fair ended on October 2, 1949.[1] By 1955 the Pioneer Zephyr's route had been updated to run between Galesburg, Illinois, and Saint Joseph, Missouri; the trainset had been in continual service since 1934, operating over nearly 3 million miles (4.8 million kilometres). The Pioneer Zephyr's last revenue run was a trip from Lincoln, Nebraska, to Kansas City, Missouri, (along the train's regular revenue route) that then continued to Chicago on March 20, 1960. When Amtrak took over passenger rail services in 1971, the legendary Zephyr name was preserved, and the California Zephyr is an Amtrak route in the 21st century.

Use in film


The advertising poster for the 1934 film. (Fair Use)

Press publicity had apparently first coined the term "Silver Streak". The Pioneer Zephyr's famous Denver-Chicago dash served as the inspiration for the 1934 film Silver Streak starring Charles Starrett. In that story, the crew was racing to the Boulder Dam construction site with an iron lung, with only moments to spare. The original Zephyr trainset was used for the exterior shots in the film, while interior scenes were filmed on a soundstage in Hollywood. For the film, the "Burlington Route" nameplate on the train's nose was replaced with one that read "Silver Streak".

More than 40 years later, that classic film – or at least the name "Silver Streak" – served as the inspiration for a newer film of the same name. Silver Streak (1976) starred Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor; rather than using the Pioneer Zephyr, the combination murder-mystery and comedy was set in the era in which it was filmed, with the train being patterned more after then modern long-distance trains.

Legacy: Preservation and static display and namesakes

On May 26, 1960, the 26th anniversary of the "Dawn-to-Dusk" dash, the original Pioneer Zephyr trainset (car numbers 9900, 505 and 570) was donated to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. Car number 500, which operated with the train starting in 1938, went along with Mark Twain Zephyr trainset 9903 to a party in Mount Pleasant, Iowa, for static display in a town park, but plans for the train's display did not work out; car 500 and the Mark Twain Zephyr are currently stored in Chicago and plans are currently underway to display it in Fairfield, Iowa.

The Chicago museum displayed the Pioneer Zephyr outside the museum, with no protection from the weather, until 1994. At that time, the steam locomotive that shared the display space with the Zephyr, Santa Fe #2903, was donated to the Illinois Railway Museum, while the Chicago museum prepared a new display location for the Zephyr.


The observation car (rear) end of the Pioneer Zephyr as seen at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. Exterior projectors display moving images on the now frosted windows. Viewers inside the car see the rapid motion of passing landscapes and grade crossings and view simulated passengers displayed as talking animated mannequins (Wikimedia Commons)

The Chicago museum dug a pit in front of the building and built a new display area for the Zephyr where it could be displayed year-round. In 1998, after the train received a cosmetic restoration by Northern Rail Car, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, the pit was finally ready to receive the train. The Pioneer Zephyr train is still on display at the museum just outside the main entrance from the underground parking area for the museum, where it is one of the more popular exhibits.

In addition to the Pioneer Zephyr, two other legacies exist in modern time. An operable Nebraska Zephyr train was donated to the large Illinois Railway Museum at Union, west of Chicago. There, powered by one of the large "E" series passenger diesels (an EMD E5) with the distinctive and durable stainless-steel fluting, it is still operated on short runs on the Museum's substantial trackage, providing train enthusiasts and tourists with an experience reminiscent of the heyday of the Burlington's Zephyr service.

The Ford Motor Company used the trade name "Zephyr" on a model of its Lincoln-Mercury division cars. Mercury Zephyrs were built in the 1970s and 1980s.

Also utilizing the famous name, the Minnesota Zephyr is an elegant dining train located in the historic city of Stillwater, Minnesota, although it is not directly associated with the historic Burlington Zephyr fleet.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

END OF PART I of II


Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!


A rainy, somewhat blustery and cool day here in mid-Continent USA. Repeat performance for tomorrow – then clearing ‘n warming for the rest of the week. Not to worry, Juneau got his 1 mile trek, in between the rain drops! <grin>


So, a nice finish last night to the day – I see we made it to 20 Posts. That’s the “benchmark” – but of course, it’s rather skewed in my direction. Perhaps one day that will all come about . . . we can hope! [tup]


I have finally come to the conclusion that these Forum pages have a “mind of their own!” Too many times the guys are not getting the most current material when they log in. I refuse to believe that “ignorance’ is the factor – rather it is just the combination of individual ‘puters and the interlink with the Forums. Works well for many, but not so for others. A shame, especially for those who Post only once per day. That puts ‘em behind the curve at the get-go – not getting the info means you’re always behind. Remedy[?] Check in more often . . . and by all means, CHECK to see who may have Posted while you were preparing and submitting yours. All that needs to be done is scroll UP ‘n take a look.


The acknowledgments:

pwolfe Pete Posted: 08 May 2006, 21:34:13

Deed dillos eh[?] That’s a sight for sore eyes, indeed! Frisky[?] Of course Tex is frisky – I think that critter would try and mate with a bowling ball! [swg] Appreciate your stopping by and of course, the round! [tup][tup]


trolleyboy Rob Posted: 08 May 2006, 21:56:46 – 22:40:34 - 22:50:43

I checked out that URL on the “fleet” and came away with the notion that if I were going to sail aboard any of ‘em, it would be the one built in 2002. The other two were constructed back when Moby *** was a minnow. <geesh> [swg] Nevertheless, they are “interesting” vessels and undoubtedly provide many hours of pleasure for those who board.

Need sheep[?] Contact Doug! [swg] <Baaaaaaaaaaaaaah!>

You like that woid – “esoteric,” eh[?] It’s used rather commonly over at Vito the Hit’s School for the Grammatically Challenged! <grin> I’ll have to “dig up” the syllabus.

The most poignant of your “COR” submission was the last line:

QUOTE: By 1986 the link between Trenton and Marmora was gone as well.

Many thanx for the round! [tup][tup]


wanswheel Mike Posted: 08 May 2006, 05:28:31


First customer Post of the day goes to you! [tup] Don’t know your time zone – as we don’t know your location – but the bar was “open” and the round was appreciated by all of the ‘OJ’ drinkers! [swg] [tup][tup]

Nicely done Post with the narratives and URLs – a most interesting and effective blend. Kinda like our coffee – freshly ground ‘n brewed and always tasty! [tup] Appreciate the lead in to our “Theme for the Day” – Burlington Zephyrs [tup][tup][tup]


barndad Posted: 08 May 2006, 05:35:13

In this life there are rather few “certainties,” but you seem to be an exception. Really appreciate having your Posts each morning and it’s a great start to the day! [tup] Exposition Flyer ‘n Zephyrs make for mighty fine readin’ – too bad 20 Fingers Al is missing out on all of this. (Anyone want to “make book” on whether he’ll review the pages he missed while gone[?]) [swg]

Jokes[?] [ugh] Bring back the cartoons! [yeah]


Theodorebear Ted Posted: 08 May 2006, 06:08:41

Good to see ya this AM!

Not too sure I picked up on your URL discussion – but opinions are like noses – we all have one! <grin> Contributing is the key element – this Thread would cease to exist if not for the guys who make it “go” through their unselfish efforts.

Your Email was responded to – thanx!


Okay, Gents – I’ll be here for the remainder of the day! [tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]



BE SMARTER:
Use the “Reload/Refresh” as soon as you get to ”Our” Place.
It’s the only way to get the most current Posts!

[siberianmo]

Now arriving on track #1 …..
Railroads from Yesteryear! Number Eighteen


PART II of II


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


The Burlington Zephyrs




Models of the Pioneer Zephyr

Due to the Zephyr's place in American railroad history, many model railroaders have built their own versions of the Pioneer Zephyr in miniature. Several model manufacturers are now producing commercial ready-to-run models or kits of the train for modelers to build. This list is sorted by the manufacturer's release date:

• American Flyer produced a ready-to-run Pioneer Zephyr model in S scale (1:64) in 1965.
• Challenger Imports imported limited production ready-to-run brass models in HO scale (1:87) of the 4-car Pioneer Zephyr, Mark Twain Zephyr and the Boston and Maine Railroad's Maine Cheshire and Maine Minuteman in 1993.
• Fine N-Scale Products released a kit in 1996 in N scale (1:160) that includes an option for car number 500.
• Con-Cor made a limited-run model available in both HO scale and N scale that were released in 2005.
• River Raisin Models released a ready-to-run model in S scale of both the Pioneer Zephyr (in three- and four-car configurations) and the similar Flying Yankee. These models were also released in 2005.
• MTH Electric Trains released a limited production ready-to-run model of the three-car Pioneer Zephyr in O scale (1:48) in 2005

See also

• Flying Yankee - A very similar streamlined trainset that operated on the Boston and Maine Railroad; it is undergoing restoration to operating condition as of 2006.
• Nebraska Zephyr - Another of Burlington's Zephyr fleet, one example of which is preserved at the Illinois Railway Museum.

References

• American Society of Mechanical Engineers (November 18, 1980), The Pioneer Zephyr (PDF). Retrieved February 24, 2005.
• Chicago Museum of Science and Industry, excerpts from the New York Times (May 27, 1934), Pioneer Zephyr - A Legendary History. Retrieved February 24, 2005.
• Chicago Museum of Science and Industry (2002), Pioneer Zephyr, a legendary history - The Dawn To Dusk Club. Retrieved March 1, 2005.
• Gordon-Gilmore, Randy (2002), Pioneer Zephyr. Retrieved February 24, 2005.
• Johnston, Bob, and Welsh, Joe, with Schafer, Mike (2001). The art of the streamliner, Metro Books, New York, NY. ISBN 1-58663-146-2.
• Lotz, David (Spring 2002), History of the Mark Twain Zephyr. Retrieved February 27, 2005.
• PBS Online / WGBH (2000), American Experience / Streamliners / People & Events / Ralph Budd. Retrieved February 22, 2005.
• Ragsdale, Earl J. W., (August 20, 1932), Patent number 1,944,106 - Method and product of electric welding (PDF). Retrieved February 27, 2005.
• Trackside, The Pioneer Zephyr comes home. Retrieved February 25, 2005.
• (February 2005) Trains Timeline, Trains Magazine, p. 9.
• Wayner, Robert J., ed. (1972). Car names, numbers and consists, Wayner Publications, New York, NY.
• Zimmerman, Karl (2004). Burlington's Zephyrs, MBI Publishing Company, St. Paul, Minnesota; reprint by Andover Junction Publications. ISBN 0-7603-1856-5.


California Zephyr



Denver and Rio Grande Western #601 leads the California Zephyr westbound at the east switch in the Grand Valley, in Mesa County, Colorado on March 14, 1949.


"Drumhead" logos such as this often adorned the ends of observation cars on the California Zephyr.

The California Zephyr is a 2,438-mile (3924-km) passenger train route operated by Amtrak in the Midwestern and Southwestern United States. It runs from Chicago, Illinois in the east to Emeryville, California in the west, passing through the states of Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, and California. This route is one of the longest and most scenic routes run by Amtrak.

Before Amtrak commenced operation, California Zephyr (the CZ, or "Silver Lady") was a passenger train operated jointly by the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad (CB&Q), Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad (D&RGW) and Western Pacific Railroad (WP), along almost the same route. The CB&Q, D&RGW and WP inaugurated "The most talked about train in America" on March 19, 1949. It was the first passenger train in regular operations in North America to use dome cars, and was purposely scheduled so that her patrons passed through the most spectacular scenery in the daylight.

The pre-Amtrak California Zephyr

Before Amtrak operated a train with this name, the California Zephyr was operated by the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad from Chicago to Denver, Colorado, the Denver and Rio Grande Western Railroad between Denver and Salt Lake City, Utah, and the Western Pacific Railroad from Salt Lake City to San Francisco. Trains ran with cars of mixed ownership; cars cycled in and out of the consists for service, repairs, and varying passenger loads with the seasons.

This train was the first in the nation to use Vista Dome cars. The first train was christened in San Francisco by Eleanor Parker while California's Lieutenant Governor Goodwin Knight and WP's President Harry Mitchell watched. For the inaugural run in 1949, every female passenger on the train was given a corsage of "silver" and orange orchids that were specially flown in from Hilo, Hawaii. The women who worked as car hostesses on this train were known as Zephyrettes.
The train traversed the route's 2,525 miles (4064 km) in 2½ days.

Equipment used


An interior view of a Denver and Rio Grande Western California Zephyr 1290 Series lounge car as it appeared in April 1951. Men and women sit on upholstered chairs and couches and at booths. The men wear suits and ties, and the women wear dresses or skirts and sweaters. Bottles of Coke are on a table at a booth. The windows have blinds and floral drapes and a painting of a mountain landscape hangs on the far wall.

The passenger cars used when the train was inaugurated in 1949 were as follows:

• Baggage
• Vista-Dome chair car
• Vista-Dome chair car
• Vista-Dome chair car
• Vista-Dome dormitory-buffet-lounge car
• Sleeper (10 roomettes, 6 double bedrooms)
• Sleeper (10 roomettes, 6 double bedrooms)
• Diner (48 seats)
• Sleeper (16 sections)
• Sleeper (10 roomettes, 6 double bedrooms) - this was a run-through car to New York City, New York
• Vista-Dome dormitory-buffet-lounge-observation (1 drawing room, 3 double bedrooms)

The forward section of the first Vista-Dome car was partitioned off and reserved for women and children only. There was a door in the corridor under the dome just behind the women's restroom that provided access to the reserved section. In later years, the reserved section was opened up to all passengers and the door and partitions were removed.

Like the train's operation, ownership of the cars was split between the three railroads almost evenly across all car types. Each car was owned by a single railroad, but the ownership of the cars on any specific day's run of the train depended more on what equipment was available at the terminals than whose railroad the train was operating over at the time.

In 1952 an additional Pullman sleeper (6 double bedrooms) was added to regular service on this train. With the new cars delivered that year, cars arriving in Chicago on the California Zephyr were made available for use on the Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyr for an overnight round trip to Lincoln, Nebraska. When the cars returned from Lincoln the next day, they were placed back in the westbound California Zephyr's consist for the next train out of Chicago that afternoon.

Amtrak Era

As ridership fell during the 1960's the Western Pacific repeatedly petitioned the ICC to drop its section of the train west of Salt Lake City without success. On February 13,1970 the ICC released an order stating, "operation of the train was no longer required". Final operation of the train was made on March 22, 1970 with a west bound train terminating at Oakland, California. The California Zephr had operated for 20 years and 2 days. The Chicago, Burlington and Quincy continued to operate the remaining train as California Service and the Rio Grande as the Rio Grande Zephyr until May 31, 1971, though the train terminated at Salt Lake City.

With the establishment of Amtrak in 1971 the new system began operating its San Francisco Zephyr over the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy route to Denver, and Union Pacific's "Overland Route" west of Denver where the train then ran over the Southern Pacific tracks west of Ogden, Utah.

The Rio Grande railroad initially opted out of Amtrak and continued to operate its section of the former California Zephyr as the Rio Grande Zephyr. In 1983 the Rio Grande Railroad reversed its decision and joined Amtrak.

In July 1983 Amtrak ceased operation of the San Francisco Zephyr and launched operation of a new California Zephyr over the CB&Q and Rio Grande legs of the original trains route. West of Salt Lake City the route operates on the Western Pacific track to where the WP meets the old Southern Pacific track near Wells, Nevada. From Wells to Winnemucca (where the 2 tracks meet again), Nevada the Zephyr uses WP track eastbound, Southern Pacific track westbound. West of Winnemucca the Zephyr uses SP track.

Timeline


Train No. 17, the California Zephyr, passes east of Derby, Colorado on July 15, 1951. (Otto Perry photograph)

• March 12, 1949: Public exhibition of equipment that will be used on the California Zephyr begins in Oakland, California. The exhibition travels through along the WP portion of the train's route to Salt Lake City, Utah before returning to San Francisco, California the following week for the inauguration.
• March 19 1949: The inauguration ceremony for the California Zephyr is held in front of the Pier 3 Ferry building in San Francisco. This is the only time the train is moved into San Francisco, proper; the ceremony is attended by Pacific Opera Company soprano Evelyn Corvello (who sang the Star Spangled Banner to open the ceremony), San Francisco Mayor Leland Cutler, Western Pacific President Harry Mitchell, California Lieutenant Governor Goodwin Knight and Warner Brothers actress Eleanor Parker (who officially christened the train with a bottle of champagne).
• March 20 1949: The first eastbound California Zephyr leaves San Francisco, California bound for Chicago, Illinois at 9:20 am.
• March 1, 1955: The eastbound California Zephyr, while traveling through Ruby Canyon, sees its first on-train birth as Peter Zars is born.
• February 13, 1970: The Interstate Commerce Commission approves the discontinuation of the California Zephyr.
• March 22 1970: The last westbound California Zephyr through to the west coast leaves Chicago; the train terminates in Oakland. The California Zephyr continues to operate Chicago to Ogden on the CB&Q and D&RGW on a tri-weekly schedule, with a cross platform transfer in Ogden to the City of San Francisco for through passengers to Oakland.
• 1983: The California Zephyr returns to service when the D&RGW agrees to join Amtrak.
• October 29, 2000: Service on Amtrak's California Zephyr is upgraded to daily.

Communities served


Two California Zephyr express trains meet at a railroad siding (Grizzly) in Garfield County, Colorado beside the Colorado River on March 21, 1949. The Denver and Rio Grande Western locomotives and passenger cars travel in opposite directions on parallel tracks. Placards on the dome cars read "Silver Hostel" and "Silver Pony."

From east to west, the communities with regular station stops on this train included:

• Chicago, Illinois
• Galesburg, Illinois
• Burlington, Iowa
• Ottumwa, Iowa
• Osceola, Iowa
• Creston, Iowa
• Omaha, Nebraska
• Lincoln, Nebraska
• Hastings, Nebraska
• McCook, Nebraska
• Denver, Colorado (where the train was handed off from the CB&Q to the DRGW)
• Glenwood Springs, Colorado
• Grand Junction, Colorado
• Helper, Utah
• Provo, Utah
• Salt Lake City, Utah (where the train was handed off from the DRGW to the WP)
• Elko, Nevada
• Winnemucca, Nevada
• Portola, California
• Oroville, California
• Marysville, California
• Sacramento, California
• Stockton, California
• Oakland, California
• San Francisco, California

Station stops

The California Zephyr runs as train 5 westbound and 6 eastbound, making the following station stops:


Having just arrived in Galesburg, Illinois, Train No. 5 — the California Zephyr, led by GE Genesis P42DC locomotives #132 and #167 — "cools its heels" for a few minutes before continuing west on September 27th, 2004. (courtesy: www.trainweb.com)

Illinois

• Chicago
• Naperville
• Princeton
• Galesburg

Iowa

• Burlington
• Mt. Pleasant
• Ottumwa
• Osceola (serves Des Moines)
• Creston

Nebraska

• Omaha
• Lincoln
• Hastings
• Holdrege
• McCook

Colorado

• Fort Morgan
• Denver
• Fraser-Winter Park
• Granby
• Glenwood Springs
• Grand Junction

Utah

• Green River
• Helper
• Provo
• Salt Lake City


Former CB&Q sleeper-observation car #375, the "Silver Horizon" (now #9250 in Amtrak livery), brings up the rear of the California Zephyr as it passes through Chicago.

Nevada

• Elko
• Winnemucca
• Sparks
• Reno
California

• Truckee (serves Lake Tahoe)
• Colfax
• Roseville
• Sacramento
• Davis
• Martinez
• Emeryville (serves San Francisco)

References

• Wayner, Robert J., ed. (1972). Car names, numbers and consists, Wayner Publications, New York, NY.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

END OF PART II of II


Enjoy!


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]



Did you miss any of the previous seventeen[?] Click the URL:

#1: Baltimore & Ohio (B&O
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=233&TOPIC_ID=35270
#2: Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=234&TOPIC_ID=35270
#3: Pennsylvania (PRR)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=237&TOPIC_ID=35270
#4: New York Central (NYC)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=240&TOPIC_ID=35270
#5: New Haven (NYNH&H)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=242&TOPIC_ID=35270
#6: Santa Fe (ATSF) (Two Parts)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=246&TOPIC_ID=35270
#7: Southern Pacific (SP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=253&TOPIC_ID=35270
#8: Northern Pacific (NP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=259&TOPIC_ID=35270
#9: Coastline/Seaboard (ACL – SCL – SAL) (Two Parts)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=267&TOPIC_ID=35270
#10: Southern Railway (SOU)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=276&TOPIC_ID=35270
#11: Denver and Rio Grande Western (D&RG)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=282&TOPIC_ID=35270
#12: Great Northern Railway (GN)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=287&TOPIC_ID=35270
#13: Missouri Pacific (MP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=293&TOPIC_ID=35270
#14: Illinois Central (IC)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=299&TOPIC_ID=35270
#15: Boston & Maine (B&M)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=307&TOPIC_ID=35270
#16: Western Pacific (WP)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=313&TOPIC_ID=35270
#17: Chicago, Burlington & Quincy (CB&Q)
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=320&TOPIC_ID=35270

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom, I think a Lars sandwich spaecaail and a Keith's will do me for lunch today. In teresting topic as per always on a tuesday. I'm supprised that Al or CM3 have yet to surface and engage.

Tom Two well put together and info packed posts a 5x[tup] for that for sure.I'm glad you liked the fleet url,I have travelled on all three of their vessels and for what it's worth the Segwun gives the best ride , likely just the nostalgia. All those ships are well cared for and the scenery just can't be beat[^] That COR article pretty much sums up both CN and CP's unwillingness to run the shortlines. If you look at maps of Ontario from even the 50's I would say a good third to one half of the branches are now walking paths. A testiment to uninformed civic and gov planners to let so much infrastructure go[:(!]

Doug Nice info on all the various and sundry of Zephers.[tup] Good show. The jokes weren't even all that bad, hardly a tweet from the groanameter coarse ode to it's shape tex has taken a bit of a shine to it[:0][:(!] rather nasty actually, hopefully armadillo mating season [V]is done soon

Mike Goof info on topic from you today too sir. Between you and Doug and Tom allot of the info I dug up for the occation has been said.Oh well I have a few technical tidbits left to throw out there.

Ted Don't throw away that promotion so quickly, all promotions come with a better retirement package[:D]caught your emails looks like everything is in order for thursday


Just reminder to everyone. Lets have a really big showing for the borthday bash of birthday baashes on the evening of the 18th[;)][:o)][tup][:D]


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Okay gents i'm back with a bit o technical info that was dug up from various mag artilce I've encountered over the years. Some has been already posted in Tpm's and Mikes and dougs efforts so I'll try to stick to the tech side and try not to rehash what's already been hashed [swg]

CLASSIC DEISELS # 22 ZEPHER'S & EMC / EMD STREAMLINERS


When E3 #822 rolled out of the erecting shop in La Grange in 1938 few would have guessed that this streamlined passenger diesel would become the defacto standard choice for passenger service engines for the next 26 years. In 1963, when the final E unit an E9 for the Union Pacific it still had the same basic design elements of the original E3. Twin engine A1A trucks,and the same family nose thouhg less rackishly slanted.The E3 itself was the embodyment of many design changes over the years before it's construction as well.

DIESEL ENGINES, STEAMLINING & A1A TRUCKS

At the time the first E3 was built GM corp had owned EMC for eight years.When GM aquired EMC on Dec 30 1930, it was just a simple sales and service company whose product was gasoline powered light railcars. It owed no locomotive or car manufactureing plants of it's own and relied on it's supplieres to build the cars it sold.With the GM purchase,developement of diesel powered cars and locomotives was given top priority by both EMC and it's parent company Winton Engine Corp another GM subsidury.Winton had been supplyuing EMC with the distillate engines for the early gas cars and had come under the control of GM in June of 1930.With GM's backing the resoirces to make a diesel engine was now only a matter of time.

In 1933 Winton introduced it's model 201 diesel engine a 2 cycle 600hp unit,it was intended for stationary use however a mobile railroad useable version calle dthe 201A was soon available it also having a 600hp rating.When both UP and the CB&Q came looking for highspeed streamlinned trainsets EMC landed both powerplant contracts. CB&Q contracted the bodies for theirs to Budd while UP awarded their body contract to Pullman Standard.

UP's M-10000 was finished first but the 201A was not ready so they settled for a 12c Winton gas motor instead also a 600hp motor the 191A.This trainset was delivered in 1934.In april CB&O's Pioneer Zepher was palced into service with it's 201A diesel in place.UP finally got their 201A for the M10000 in October of 1934 however the UP engine was uprated to a 16 cylinder 900hp version of the 201A.

Over the coarse of the next two years EMC supplied power units for other sililar streamliners. In 1934 a Budd built train went into service as the Boston and Maines Flying Yankee, Three additional Budd built sets went to the "Q" all powered by the 201A. In 1936 the Illinois Central recieved their Green Diamond from St Louis car but poewered by the EMC 201A as well.The IC unit inially had the 12cyl 600hp motor which they found to be underpowered so they reengined with the 900 horse version before the train went into service.

The twin engine design appeared in June of 1935 in the form of a stand alone box cab unit, these units with a BB configuration held two Winton 12 cylinder engines rated at 900hp a peice for a combined 1800hp.These were retained by EMC for testing but were demonstrated on mnay US railroads.In august of 1935 the B&O aquired one of these units which they numbered 50.It became the first stand alone road diesel to go into service. The rest being the articulated Zepher like trainsets which the railways found to be a bit of a chore should maintenance issues arrise.ATSF also jumped on board and bought two of the bioxes as well. Tese were the last units assembled outside of the EMC facility as they were building their plant at La Grange at this point.

It was found that for passenger service the BB truckes had trouble handling the weight of two prime movers and the steam gen sets so the longer weight distributiong A1A's that hallmarked the E series locomotives became the norm. The rest is as they say history, the most beloved ( in some camps ) passenger locomotive series of locomotives was born.

Rob

[LoveDomes]

G’day Capn Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!


Well, it was worth the wait! Arriving on Track #1 – on time – and in “ship-shape repair” the Burlington Zephyrs made the day! A 5-[tup] Salute to you Sir! [tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

Barkeep, I’ll have a Shaefer in a frosty mug if you please and a 1 foot hero – my usual: ham – Swiss – buttAH ‘n mustAHd with two large pickles from the barrel. AND a saucer of brine for the Boris’ pet Armadillo, Tex! He loves the stuff! [swg]

Two daylight visits from Rob – what’s up Count [?] Must be your time off, huh[?] I recall you mentioning it was coming . . .

Al is at his brother-in-laws place and won’t be around ‘til Thursday at the earliest. And Shane mentioned yesterday that he might not be in today. C’mon guy – read! [swg]

Some morning Posts to jump start the day – but did you notice – all “bunched up.” That’s what Tom has been hoping would NOT happen – spread ‘em out if possible. But I suppose if that’s the ONLY time available – “then we takes what we gets!”

I’m trying to maintain a “happy face,” but I’m crying on the inside. I’ve got a 6 hour drive ahead of me tomorrow and depending on what I find at the other end, I may not get back ‘til week’s end. And that will put me smack, dab in the midst of a family get together. Oh joy of joys! <multiple frowns!>

Rob I sent you an e-mail, Tom too! Also heard from Eric and he’s upbeat about the bar. My guess is we’ve won him over. For all who communicated with him, you’ve done the place good! [tup][tup] Have one on me! Ring the bell, Boris!


I am going to dispense with the usual routine of passing thoughts hither ‘n yon and get right to the matter – except to say that all of you who made contributions to today’s “Theme” made excellent selections! [tup][tup][tup]


Some pix for all to enjoy! [tup] and of course “on theme!”


California Zephyr – CB&Q Silver Penthouse #376 obs dome
(from: www.trainweb.org)



California Zephyr - obs dome lower level lounge
(courtesy: www.calzephyr.railfan.net - Public Domain - photo: Hedrich-Blessing)




California Zephyr - Pre 1960 obs dome lower level lounge
(courtesy: www.calzephyr.railfan.net - Public Domain)




California Zephyr - Post 1960 obs dome lower level lounge (courtesy: www.calzephyr.railfan.net - Public Domain)




California Zephyr obs dome bar lounge
(courtesy: www.calzephyr.railfan.net - Public Domain)




California Zephyr obs dome bar lounge
(courtesy: www.calzephyr.railfan.net - Public Domain)




Capn Tom – Rob ‘n Ted have a wonderful and fun filled time in Toronto! Should be a blast and all I can say is . . . . I’m envious! <grin> Don’t let the land lubbers lead you astray, Capn! <yeah, right!>


Until the next time! [tup]


Lars

[Anonymous]

Just posting to prove 'Michaelson WAS here'. (grins)

Regards! Michaelson

[siberianmo]

THEME for the DAY! - THEME for the DAY!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #2
first Posted on page 117


Here’s a little something taken from the literature associated with the California-Zephyr and its Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lounge:

Rest and Relaxation in the ”Vista-Dome” Lounge-Observation Car

The spacious and luxurious lounge-observation car at the rear of the train and immediately behind the sleeping cars, furnishes congenial lounging facilities on three different levels for as many as fifty passengers.

Modern ingenious designing and expert fabrication combine to make a composite unit of four distinctly separate accommodations in this exquisite car.

The ‘main floor” lounge is located within the gracefully rounded end of the observation car. Here, deeply-cushioned occasionally chairs and settees, in shades of sandalwood and brown in a setting of rose-tan and petal beige, invite complete relaxation.

Carpeted and individually-lighted steps from the lounge lead to the distinctive air-conditioned “Vista-Dome – tastefully decorated in tones of sandalwood. Here, enclosed in shatter-proof, glare-resistant glass, are twenty-four deep-cushioned seats, where passengers may ride in comfort and enjoy a complete view in every direction.

Nestled beneath the Dome is a buffet. Tastefully decorated in rose and gray-green, it provides a delightful rendezvous in which to speed the miles and minutes. At one end of the buffet is a refreshment counter with carved linoleum base and back bar of stainless steel and etched mirrors. Electric refrigeration units assure an ample supply of cool, refreshing beverages at all times. The buffet has a telephone connection with the dining car, over which table reservations can be made.

Forward from the buffet are three bedrooms and a drawing room, each having enclosed toilet facilities. Each room is attractively decorated in harmonious shades of rose-tan, petal beige, taupe and ashes of roses.

This car is completely carpeted and windows are equipped with Venetian blinds – those in the observation-lounge having drapes of gold and white.

From the “American Passenger Train”

Of note: The design of these Budd manufactured cars carries over to day with the VIA Rail Canada fleet of Park Car observation domes. With slight modifications, the literature quoted above could be closely associated with the cars still in use in Canada.

Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]


THEME for the DAY! - THEME for the DAY!

[siberianmo]

For: Michaelson

Well, we got you in the door - that's a start! [tup]

Saw you "browsing" and I hope you take the time to acquaint yourself with our Thread - a rather unique kind of place on the Forums.

All kinds of things to learn about "Our" Place and I suggest you begin at the beginning - page One!

The quicker you learn about us, the easier it becomes to exchange info with the guys.

1st drink is on the house when you get your "official welcome" . . . .

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Well, once I have the chance to plow through 300+ pages of stuff, I'll do so. I'm administrator of another forum, and active member of several others, including two of the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors, so I'm adding this one to the pile of goodies I read day in and day out while producing classes here at the University of Tennessee Space Institute.

Hope to be more active in the future. Just trying to get a handle on what is discussed where, by whom, and the players, if you know what I mean. (grins)

High regards! Michaelson[;)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

[#welcome] Aboard Michaelson! - first drink is on the house - what's your pleasure[?]

The way it works is as follows - we are inclusive with our comments - we acknoweldge the other guy's efforts - we avoid being "hit 'n run" with our Posts - and we talk about "Classic Trains" (real 'n model).

Read page ONE - then check out the last 10-15 pages. Most guys like to do the latter in reverse order. You will see our daily Summaries - those provide some good insight with regard to who the "players" are and what's going on . . . . good idea to check 'em daily.

"Our" Place was created for people who have grown weary of the nonsense and innane crap taking place on so many Threads. Of course, at fiirst glance, one may derive a contrary opinion of us as well. Just takes time to understand what we do and the way we do it! [tup]

Sounds to me as if you have a lot on your plate - should you find the time, stop by again and we'll begin our "chats!"

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and a round for another great Theme Day[tup][tup][tup].

First a bit from yesterday. ROB Thanks for the Muskoka fleet link and the post on the Central Ontario Railway another fallen line[:(].
Look forward to the photos of the engine mover, Toton depot in Nottinghamshire had two made from redundent class 37 locos .
I hope you enjoyed the link to the BR Sulzer type 2s. The pioneer class24 # D 5000 was shedded in my home town for a few years.

TED Glad you like the British stuff. I am not too up on Irish DMUs perhaps NICK can help.
Hopefully Alan will send us some Irish pics from his trip.

On to the theme day, really great start by MIKE . I had forgotten about the Canterbury Tales and great history of the Gas -Electric. The link to the Hannible pics looks like nearly all of the town turned out to see the Zephyr wonderful photos.

DOUG Thanks for the E5, Exposition Flyer and California Zephyr info, another great article.

TOM Another winner. Lovely story of the Pioneer's first run even having a mule aboard.
I noticed that the maximum speed attain on that run of 112.5 MPH was exactly the same as one of Gresley,s magnificent streamlined A4 pacifics set a year later. That class of loco also gain the name Streaks if only by the railfans.
Thinking about the inaugeral run the words Teething troubles obviously had not been invented in 1934 unlike many new things invented today.
I must get to Chicago to see that Zephyr and to the IRM and prhaps have a ride behind an E5. It is a pity the Mark Twain Zephyr cannot be found a good home in Hannible.
Is that an Alco on the Rio- Grande train?
Good Nostagia as well.

ROB Thanks for the early diesel engine info and LARS for the California Zephyr wonderful inside pics. I hope after your long drive you can get things resolved successfully and it is not too long before you are back in the Bar

I would give all you gentlemen many thumbs up but when I tried the smillies at the start it took ages and I thought it was going to stick again, so I will say MANY THANKS.

Another round Tom an of course a Bathams for me. PETE.

[wanswheel]

Hi again Tom, another round

Doug, you got a great post this morning, and the punchlines took me by surprise again, hadn't planned to laugh but I did.

Rob, you old techie, expanded upon the motor gizmo, good idea!

Pete, yes, about the whole town of Hannibal showed up at the station, thanks for checking out the links.

Lars, more great pictures, especially inside the train.

Eric, welcome, and if you're reading this page, thanks for pictures of X-2000, particularly at Penn Station.

Michaelson, hi and welcome. Tennessee is the home of my favorite online radio station, WDVX

Tom, these theme days are getting me educated. I can't seem to stop learning more old news about the CB&Q.

Article by J. S. FORD, as told to the Associated Press

"Chicago, May 26.--It was the thrill of a century for me to be at the controls of the Zephyr as it roared into Chicago at the completion of its record-setting run from Denver to Chicago.
There were three of us who shared the job of piloting the Burlington's ultra-modern speed train on the 1,015-mile trip. It was my good luck to be at the throttle for the last 165 miles. Our streamlined bullet certainly attracted the attention of the country.
I guess there were more than a million people who turned out along the route to see us go by. It seemed like the entire population was lined up at every town, city and village to cheer us along. Even the farmers in the fields got a big kick out of it.
Piloting that train was a wonderful sensation. It never gave us a minute's worry, and we burned up the rails. At times we reached a speed of 112 miles an hour, and they say we averaged seventy-seven miles an hour, although I haven't had time to figure it out yet.
Our wheels never stopped moving from the time we left Denver until we reached Chicago. The Zephyr held the road beautifully and responded to every touch. I'd like to do it again."

Denver Rocky Mountain News
http://www.indianahistory.org/ihs_press/web_publications/railroad04/reutter/1.jpg

"Zeph" the burro
http://photoswest.org/photos/00186251/00186332.jpg

Century of Progress
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/pan/6a27000/6a27900/6a27910r.jpg

Lincoln Zephyr
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/gsc/5a12000/5a12400/5a12491r.jpg

Fun Facts
http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/zephyr/funfacts/index.html

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!


Coming to the end of another successful day here at the “Feast or Famine” bar ‘n grill! [swg] Some interesting “stuff” from an assortment of guys – which is the intent of our “theme” day!


Had a bit of an injury to one of my hands and I’m having problems with the keyboard tonight – so, I’ll be making this rather brief. Think I popped a tendon in my right hand – feels like a broken bone –but it’s not that – just feels that way. I should know – for that hand was busted once or twice on some hard heads in my younger, rowdy days!


Thanx to all for the Emails – I’m trying my best to keep up with “everything” – but your gaining on me! [swg]


Acknowledgments to Wolfman Pete & URLMeister Monster Mike!! Two fine Posts chock full of well thought out info for all . . . . Rounds most appreciated too!! [tup] Oh - yes, that IS an ALCO on the Pix you mentioned Pete!

Lars A 4.0 photo-spread! Really a good fit with our "Theme"!! Thanx for the round! tup][tup][tup]

Rob Thanx for the mid-day Posts - good stuff, as always! Appreciate the round! [tup]

Have a safe trip up 'n back - hope things aren't as bad as perhaps they may appear.


REMINDER!
Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Well once again I find myself lured in by the siren call of the jukebox,good evening gentlemen,[4:-)][oX)]TOM,thank you for the drink,I`ll have a Starop from the back fridge-in fact,make it two,set up the boys and have one yourself-you need to get your hand in,ready for the weekend [swg]
Congratulations to one and all for the magnificent C.B.&Q. spread-it will take me a day or two to absorb-nice one[tup]
So
MICHAELSON-[#welcome]-pull up a seat and pitch in an opinion,whats yer drink of choice by the way..?
PETE-nice stuff on the `Ethels`-knew nothing about them,another gap filled [^]
ROB-We seem to have missed each other lately-fine pix of the boats-one of my strongest memories of Canada is of time spent next to a lake about a hundred miles north of Toronto-very evocative.......[^]
SIR THEODORE-Always a pleasure to share a little cyber-space with you and indeed a pleasure to see you back amongst us-as luck would have it,I will be spending a week in the Auld Country later this month ( a very poor substitude for the R.D.V,but you takes what you gets I guess) so if you give me what you have on those units I will see what I can dig up--will also be within striking distance of Schull & Skibbereen of sacred memory-no promises,but if I can get some pix of the `auld place`-(would you even know where it is ?) will do so.
Right,[4:-)][oX)]TOM-I`ve deliberately left you until last for two reasons,the first being that I knew I would be ready for another beer (which I am[^]) the second being that as this bit is model-related I would put it up as close to pikes perspectives day as possible-so--Derailments-I`m guessing that your passenger cars have body mounted couplers-these look good and work well when towing but when propelling become far more demanding-I suspect it has something to do with the overhang between the truck pivot point and the coupler-any hint of an S curve and the car ends twist out beyond the couplers tolerances.
With truck mounted couplers at least the coupler heads stay in near enough direct line.
The other alternative is to form the `Mentor Term. Rrd` whose principal duty turn is as station pilots at Union Stn-running out and collecting the car sets and drawing them back in to release the train engines for servicing-I can see a pair of R.S.2` doing this work-as a break from the G.M.theme seen elsewhere-might even share the S.O.B Lines primer-grey and matt orange livery.......thanks for continuing inspiration [tup][^][tup]-have just been reminded of (a) the time now & (b) the time when I have to get up & (c) the worryingly short gap between the two,especially considering the amount of beer disposed of,thus,a fond farewell to one and all,moonlight mile for me -safe journey to all of you,speak soon,nick [C=:-)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon,send up a round of Keith's for all those that want one tonight.

Tom Nice final Zepher post, looks like we've had another good theme day.We are a pair I must say. I tried to remobve most opf the skin from my elboe while working in the flower beds yesterday. [xx(] I think if we are not carefull our back 40's might be the end of both of us.Got your emails and responded sooo you are not caught up yet LOL

Mike hey thanks for the second run through today good bit and a couple more wonderfull urls to peruse. I liked the Algoma Central one thanks for that. Really nice inclusive post tonight as well 5x[tup] for that one as well. I'm glad that I didn't get too techie on my peice on the Zepher I'd hate to think I was boring the class [;)][swg]

Pete hey glad you liked the Muskoka fleet link, it and the Portage Flyer might make a good rendezvous. [oops] bad Rob we have already had one in my backyard.Those pictures should be in my hot little hands tomorrow, they are one of the two IC Paducah shop built cars. it's heavy duty and sits on a pair of old Bloemburg locomotive trucks.

lars Hey nice interior shots of the Zepher domes.Always neat to see the insidess of the cars. I got your emails as well BTW more responces are headed for your inbox. My bad I did read that Al and CM3 were nor going to be in but I forgotted, it's half timers I tells ya [swg] Hope your trip north is as unstressfull as possible[sigh] Good job on helping ensnare Eric 5x[tup] for that sir. [:D]

Michealson [#welcome] aboard sir, nice to make your aquaintance, I hope you find our little corner of cyberspace a fun and rewarding one.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Mr Nick always a pleasure to see you in fine west wales form tonight or tomorrow in your case. [swg] it would have been both a hoot and an honour to have had you with us at the end of the week, we shall catch up with you eventually. whick lake did you spend so much time by ( if you remember ) the Muskoka steamship company plied Lake Muskoka, Lake Joe, the Muskoka River and Lake Rosseau and all the tiny watery points in betwixt and between. It is great country I recomend it to one and all.

Nice info you had for Tom there as well. I too have had some problems with the rivarossi passenger cars. I have to have body mount coupers though they just look better. I have found however that a good set of metal wheels ( lifelikes ) discarding the horribly overflanged rivarossi ones and a good deal of extra weight low down in both ends of the cars over the trucks makes them run almost perfectly and with out many derailments. I use the stick on flat qaurter once tire balencing weights, they fit under the interiors and work quite well for me. a good extra two onces makes all the difference. Just my [2c] for what it's worth.


Rob

[siberianmo]

Toronto: courtesy: www.viarail.ca

We open at 6 AM. (All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Daily Wisdom

A gentle horse is soon curried.


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear – The Delaware and Hudson (D&H)
arrives next Tuesday!


* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Toy & Model Trains Day!
Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


MVP Award Winners

April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars



[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



Comedy Corner


Yarns from the Barn
(from barndad Doug’s Posts)


[:I] Bob takes a vacation every summer. He is a golf nut and spends 2 weeks up at Hecia Island. This year he met a woman out there and fell head over heels in love with her. On the last night of his vacation, the two of them went to dinner and had a serious talk about how they would continue the relationship.
"It's only fair to warn you, I'm a total golf nut," Bob said to his lady friend. "I eat, sleep and breathe golf, so if that's a problem, you'd better say so now."
"Well, if we're being honest with each other, here goes," she replied. "I'm a hooker."
"I see, Bob replied, and was quiet for a moment. Then he added, "You know, it s probably because you're not keeping your wrists straight when you tee off. [:I]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, May 7th thru May 13th: City Slickers (1991) starring: Billy Crystal, Jack Palance & Bruno Kirby –and- Crocodile Dundee (1986) starring: Paul Hogan & Linda Kozlowski. SHORT: Horses’ Collars (1935).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, May 14th thru May 20th: A Fish Called Wanda (1988) starring: John Cleese, Jamie Lee Curtis, Kevin Kline & Michael Palin –and- The French Connection (1971) starring: Gene Hackman & Ray Scheider. SHORT: Restless Knights (1935).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 05:26:59 (326) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) wanswheel Mike Posted: 09 May 2006, 05:28:31 (326) THEME: Zephyr excerpts, URLs, etc.

(3) barndad Doug Posted: 09 May 2006, 05:35:13 (326) THEME: Zephyr info & jokes

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 09 May 2006, 06:08:41 (326) Right Coast report!

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 08:22:31 (326) Burlington Zephyrs – Ad

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 10:00:15 (326) RR from Yesteryear – Burlington Zephyrs Part I of II

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 11:34:11 (326) Acknowledgments & Comments

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 12:00:17 (326) RR from Yesteryear – Burlington Zephyrs Part II of II

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 May 2006, 13:35:21 (326) Mid-day visit!

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:18:08 (326) THEME: Classic Diesels #22 – Zephyrs, etc.

(11) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:21:14 (326) Lars Report & THEME: 6 Pix!

(12) Michaelson (none) Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:42:55 (326) 1st Post at the bar

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:43:17 (326) THEME: Nostalgia – Zephyr literature

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 14:54:33 (326) For: Michealson

(15) Michaelson (none) Posted: 09 May 2006, 15:07:31 (327) 2nd visit!

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 16:16:35 (327) Reply to Michaelson

(17) pwolfe Pete Posted: 09 May 2006, 16:27:02 (327) Howls from the Wolf Den!

(18) wanswheel Mike Posted: 09 May 2006, 17:14:02 (327) THEME: Inclusive-Narrative-URL Post!

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 May 2006, 20:01:29 (327) Acknowledgments, etc.

(20) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 09 May 2006, 21:03:22 (327) Nick at Nite!

(21) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 May 2006, 21:09:34 (327) Count Robulla speaks!

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 May 2006, 21:21:05 (327) and more!




That’s it! [tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

A good Wednesday morning to all. Tom, I don't even have time to for the "hole," never mind the donut.[:O] To give all the fantastic entries on the C.B.Q., D. & R.G.W. Zephyrs, Zepherettes and related material the attention it deserves is well beyond my time limitations. I have only 24 hours from now to do what bachelor's must do in getting the homestead in fit order for the "house sitter." Then, last minute details for packing, security and pet arrangements. Apologies in advance for today's "bust!" I'll make every effort to get from behind the [8] when I return (in 4 days time) from the Rendesvous in Toronto. I'm sure Tom, Rob and I will be able to add some colo(u)r upon returning to "Our" Place next week. Until then, auf wiedersehen and let's "let the good times roll" on May 18th for the 68th christening of our esteamed Propietor Cap'n Tom. Cheero for now and happy rails.

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and friends, and a special welcome to Michaelson ... hope you become a part of our little gang!. I'll have the usual two light breakfasts, please.

Excellent excellent theme day yesterday as usual gentlemen. Tom's two Zephyr acticles were first-rate, and he even threw in an observation car article as well. Rob ann Mike both made fine contributions, and Lars' heavily pictured post was really fun to see! Great job guys!

Here's a little submission from me this morning. I'll have to get the rest typed-up later!

Toy Train Masters by Allan W. Miller – Vintage Rails No. 11 1998



While it’s a matter of record the Fairbanks-Morse produced a total of only 127 of their H-24-66 Train Master locomotives for a relatively few real-life railroads, America’s toy makers have, over the years, manufactured literally thousands of scale models on these boxy behemoths for innumerable miniature train empires scattered around the nation.

I have found recollections of the Train Master – both the life-size and model versions. I still recall, on one all-too-brief occasion, seeing a real H-24-66 in action in the mid-1950s. Moreover, an O gauge Train Master model from Lionel became my very first electric toy train locomotive. It was a Christmas gift from my father, presented to his 10-year-old son in 1954, back when my dreams and passions involved any and all things related to railroading. This prized possession remains with me to this day, running from time to time on my latest layout, but most often seen reposing in a Plexiglas display case, an ever-present reminder of a boyhood filled with great memories.

Just why Dad initially selected Lionel’s No. 2321 Lackawanna Train Master locomotive over the toy maker’s sleek and ever-popular models of GM’s F3 diesels, strikingly adorned in Santa Fe Warbonnet décor, is a question I never asked of him. I do still remember how I had admired the sheer size and rugged, no-nonsense look of that Lackawanna-lettered giant, as it appeared on pages 18 and 19 of Lionel’s famed “wish book” consumer catalog for 1954. (The name “Train Master” was nowhere to be seen in the descriptive text). Perhaps I had dog-eared or otherwise marked that particular two-page spread in the catalog, thereby providing Dad with a less-than-subtle hint of my desires.

Or it may simply have been a case of Dad entering Howard Amer’s jam-packed hobby shop in Youngston, Ohio, during the holiday shopping season and, in the course of browsing, over-hearing the energetic proprietor proudly proclaim to nobody in particular: “Look what just came in from Lionel!” Howard’s recommendation would have been enough to seal the transaction.

Whatever logic or motivation was applied to inspire the purchase, I was elated beyond words when I opening the nondescript, plain brown cardboard box and carefully removed my new-found treasure. Here, indeed, was a true “man’s locomotive” – one which would more than ably replace the diminutive, steam-powered Lionel set from the 1940s that I had previously “leased” from my sister, who never fully appreciated the thrill of steel wheels rolling on tinplated track.

Year later, when I returned to model railroading following the usual hiatus involving college, military service, and gaining a foothold in my career, I learned that this particular Lionel model was even more of a treasure than either my father or I would have imagined at the time. The locomotive Dad bought turned out to be the scarcer “red roof” (maroon actually) variation of Lionel’s Lackawanna Train Master: The more common and plentiful production version had a gray roof. Not that is really makes all that much difference; my Train Master will never be sold by its original owner!

The Lionel Corporation was the first major model maker to produce a scaled-down rendition of this somewhat unorthodox, opposed-piston diesel-electric locomotive. In fact, Lionel’s O gauge model was cataloged and released less than a year after the prototype FM brutes began plying the rails of such notable Class I carriers as the Virginian, Southern Pacific, and Pennsylvania railroads, among a handful of others in the United States and Canada. And what a model it was! At the time of its release, the Train Master was the longest O gauge locomotive Lionel had ever produced. Moreover, the unit was built to scale proportions, and it was equipped with two of Lionel’s hefty and reliable motors, which provided awesome train-toting ability.

This model of the Fairbanks Morse contains a wealth of detail. Notice the illumination on the head end – headlight, Mars light beneath the headlight, the markers and classification lights. On the forward part of the superstructure, are the vertical grills for the intake fans. Back, near the cab, is the grill for the exhaust fan. Hand rails extend all around the locomotive. Real railroad fans will be delighted with the construction of the under-carriage of this big loco. Look at the air hose connections on each side of the front coupler, and the big, six-wheel trucks with their delicately molded springs and hand brake connections. Under the center of the car are the oil tank and compressed air tanks for brakes. Only Lionel makes them like this.


(oops ...looks like the two pictures didn't quite match!)

[:I] A man walked into a bar on a slow night and sat down. After a few minutes, the bartender asked him if he wanted a drink.
He replied, "No thanks. I don't drink. I tried it once but I didn't like it."
So the bartender said, "Well, would you like a cigarette?" But the man said, "No thanks. I don't smoke. I tried it once but I didn't like it."
The bartender asked him if he'd like to play a game of pool, and again the man said, "No thanks. I don't like pool. I tried it once but I didn't like it. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be here at all, but I'm waiting for my son."
The bartender said, "Your only son, I guess." [:I]

[siberianmo]

G’day!


Try this one for our 2nd Toy & Model Trains Day!


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.



Ives Manufacturing Company

Ives Toy trains (from: Ives Train Society)


The Ives Manufacturing Company, an American toy manufacturer from 1868 to 1932, was the largest manufacturer of toy trains in the United States from 1910 until 1924, when Lionel Corporation overtook it in sales.

Ives was founded in Plymouth, Connecticut by Edward Ives, a descendant of Plymouth colony governor William Bradford. The company initially produced paper dolls whose limbs moved in response to hot air, but soon began producing a wide range of toys, including a toy cannon that shot using real gunpowder and clockwork powered dolls and animals that could move. The clockwork toys were designed by Jerome Secor, Nathan Warner, and Arthur Hotchkiss and by the 1880s, Ives was a leading producer of these toys.

Its emphasis shifted to trains as its designs were copied by other toymakers who were willing to sell them more cheaply. Ives' trains were made of tin or cast iron and initially powered by clockwork, but like later electric trains, some models could whistle and smoke. On December 22, 1900, a fire destroyed Ives' main factory and its tooling, prompting a re-design for 1901 that resulted in Ives' first toy train that ran on track. In the end the fire benefited the company, as the insurance money permitted it to build a modern factory with state-of-the-art tooling.

Although several companies were selling electric trains at the time, Ives opted to remain with clockwork, partly because many U.S. homes still lacked electricity.

Initially, Ives' greatest competition came from German imports, and not from domestic manufacturers. Ives' response was with marketing, which it directed at its target audience, the twelve-year-old boy. Its campaigns addressed boys as business partners, telling them that the success of Ives' fictional railroad, Ives Railway Lines, depended on their shrewd management. This worked, building brand loyalty.

Ives released its first electric trains in 1910, partially in response to companies such as American Flyer undercutting its prices on clockwork trains. Ives initially produced electric trains in O gauge and 1 gauge.

Ives' train sales continued to decline in the face of increasing competition and Lionel's greater momentum, the latter having released its first electric trains nearly a decade earlier. Meanwhile, construction toys were gaining in popularity, so in an effort to re-diversify, Ives released a Meccano and Erector Set-like construction toy in 1913. Although it offered parts its competition did not, the set was not very successful and Ives withdrew it from the market in 1917.

World War I had mixed effects on the company. On one hand, it eliminated imports from Germany, increasing Ives' share of the market. However, Ives' geographic location made it difficult to bring in the materials it needed to make trains, and also made shipping finished products difficult. Lionel and American Flyer, being headquartered in New York City and Chicago, respectively, did not face that challenge. Additionally, Ives' isolation made it impossible for Ives to gain lucrative wartime government manufacturing contracts. As a result, Ives did not benefit financially from the war.

After the war, Ives, along with competitors Lionel and American Flyer, lobbied successfully for protective tariffs to promote the fledgling American toy train industry. As a result, there was very little foreign competition after World War I, especially at the high end of the market where Ives had positioned itself.

The seasonal nature of train sales continued to cause concern for Ives, and Harry Ives, Edward Ives' son and successor, sought one last time to diversify by selling toy boats, which he hoped would support the company through strong summer sales. The first boats, released in 1917, were powered by a clockwork engine from an Ives O gauge locomotive. However, the designs were unrealistic looking, lacking the costly detail that was the highlight of competing German designs, and had a tendency to sink easily. Additionally, since Ives did not use a primer when painting the boats, the paint flaked off easily. Ives had difficulty adapting its methods for designing and building trains to work for boats. Despite the problems, Ives continued producing the boats until 1928. Few Ives boats exist today, but it is unclear whether this was due to lack of popularity or their propensity to sink.

Harry Ives had a heated professional relationship with Lionel founder Joshua Lionel Cowen, in which they traded lawsuits and, starting in 1915, Lionel criticized the quality of Ives' offerings in print advertisements, calling its cars flimsy and showing a cast-iron Ives locomotive shattering into 15 pieces when dropped from a table, while a Lionel locomotive dropped from the same height would survive with only dents. Other ads criticizing Ives' quality appeared, but they always compared Ives' cheapest products with Lionel's priciest offerings.

Although Ives could rightly claim that its lithographed offerings were more realistic than Lionel's simple enameled two-color cars, Lionel, taking a cue from Ives, targeted advertising straight at children, claiming its cars were the most realistic and that its paint jobs were more durable.

Ives' subdued responses did little to counter Lionel's claims, only calling its competitors (including Lionel) imitators whose technology was "12 years behind." It was no match for Lionel's bold and brash ads. Additionally, Lionel's trains generally were priced lower, or, in instances where their price was comparable to Ives, they were larger, making them appear to be a better value for the money. As a result, Lionel continually gained ground on Ives, finally overtaking them in sales in 1924.

In 1921, Ives abruptly discontinued its slow-selling 1 gauge trains in favor of wide gauge trains, a standard Lionel had introduced several years earlier and called "Standard Gauge". Ives did not call its trains Standard Gauge, as Lionel had trademarked the name. While Ives was inconsistent in what it called its larger-gauge trains, it most frequently called it wide gauge. Numerous other companies also entered the wide gauge market in the early 1920s, increasing consumer interest in the size and forcing the manufacturers to innovate in order to survive.

In 1924, Ives introduced a locomotive engine that would change directions when its power flow was interrupted, a feature that Lionel would not offer for another two years. Even after Lionel's introduction, Ives' offering was unique in that it offered a neutral position as well as forward and reverse, and the engine's headlight continued to operate even when the train was in neutral. Ives charged a premium for this feature, which it dubbed the "e-unit" (the "e" stood for 'electronic,' although it was a mechanical device), and it increased sales.

This was not enough for Ives to re-take its former place as market leader--by 1926, Lionel's revenue was twice that of Ives'--and, worse yet for the company, Ives was losing money by the mid-1920s. This was worsened by Ives' attempts to compete at the low end of the market, where, unlike its competition, it sold its entry-level models at a loss. If Ives' low-end products were higher quality than its competitors, it benefited its customers, not the company.

In an effort to turn around the company, Harry Ives relinquished his presidency in 1927, becoming chairman of the board and bringing in an outsider, Charles R. Johnson, as president, but problems continued and Ives' largest creditor sued in 1928. Ives filed for bankruptcy, reporting liabilities of $188,303.25. As Ives already had $245,000 in Christmas sales lined up, Johnson petitioned for a private sale and a quick settlement. The motion for a private sale was denied.

On July 31, 1928, Ives was purchased by Lionel and American Flyer for $73,250. The low price in comparison to the company sales was presumably due to liens on Ives' assets. Lionel and Flyer then operated Ives as a joint venture, retaining Johnson and Harry Ives as president and chairman, respectively. Harry Ives left the company in September 1929, and within seven years he was dead.

Ives' new owners immediately discontinued the line of toy boats, and much of Ives' train product line was replaced with relabeled American Flyer or Lionel product, and most new designs were carried out using Lionel and American Flyer parts, even though Ives' own designs were usually more realistic. There are several reasons for this. When Lionel and American Flyer bought Ives, they did not buy the factory or tooling, which they then had to rent. It may have been less expensive for the parent companies to supply their own parts than to rent the old Ives tooling. Some historians have speculated that the Ives tooling was worn out and no longer suitable for use. A third factor was that Lionel's and Flyer's manufacturing process was less labor intensive, which made their designs less expensive to manufacture than the Ives designs they replaced.

A notable exception was the Ives 1122 locomotive, first produced in 1929, which was the first near-to-scale model of an existing locomotive to enter the marketplace. Although it had a 4-4-2 wheel configuration, it was otherwise a recognizable copy of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad President Washington Class 4-6-2 locomotive.

Whatever the reasons, the Ives product line after 1928 inherited many recognizable traits from three different companies' product lines.

In 1930, Lionel bought out American Flyer's share in Ives and closed the Ives factory in Connecticut, moving operations to Lionel's New Jersey factory. Lionel kept the Ives brand on the market through 1932, then repositioned Ives for 1933, branding its entry-level trains as Lionel-Ives, then dropped the Ives name altogether following that year. Although re-issues were occasionally made, the Ives name never re-appeared on the marketplace with any kind of regularity.

Although Joshua Lionel Cowen would later claim that he dumped all of the Ives molds in the Connecticut River, Ives' influence lived on. Lionel continued the Ives practice of issuing low-end train sets that ran on a circle of O-gauge track with a 27-inch radius, and Lionel incorporated some Ives-designed freight cars into its product line. The Lionel 1680 tanker car, for instance, was an Ives design that remained in Lionel's catalogs right up to the start of World War II.

Even more significantly, the Ives e-unit first introduced in 1924 lived on in Lionel locomotives, with a modified version of the Ives design first appearing in Lionel trains starting in 1933. Some historians have said Cowen coveted the Ives e-unit, and that it was the primary reason Lionel bought the company. It would remain present in Lionel trains for more than 50 years.

Ives toys are sought after by collectors today.

Photo Gallery from other sources



Ives trains - Dark Green 3243, brass plates, Circa 1926 (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - Dark red 3243, rubber-stamped, circa 1922-24 (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - A Yellow baggage car (circa 1905-08). This one has a red door indicating that it came with red cars. Ives also made a white or cream variation of this car that also had red and gold litographed details. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - The red variation of the early Empress car - note 3 color litho, full litho frame and black roof with silver clerestory trimed in red. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - Blue Harvard car with dark green frame circa 1910-11. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - Circa 1920-22. Leftover green 552 body on an 8 wheel frame, last series trucks with spring and rivet detail. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - Circa 1922 Chair Car. Chocolate brown body with olive green roof. Rivet detail, "M" style trucks that are embossed. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - The first 6" observation car, it was really nothing more than a No 72 body cut off at the door and an observation platfore added. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - The original electric trolley in 1910 this 810 got it's power from the overhead pole. This trolley sold with a circle of track and ten poles that pulled electricity from the track. (from: Ives Train Society)




Ives trains - The earlies Ives Trolley around 1910. The mechanical trolley is a princess car with a clockwork motor and an overhead pole. (from: Ives Train Society)




Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


REMINDER!
Read the Daily Summaries!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please, round for the house, and $ for the jukebox.

I apologize for not participating yesterday, but I can blame it on work schedule, etc.

Man what a lot of Zephyr-related material!

Wanswheel provided a summary, plus Chaucer – where else but here would you see that sort of thing?

Barndad – Material on the Exposition Flyer (surely one of the greatest train names ever), and a most interesting Western Pacific picture as well.

Our ‘steamed proprietor - Historical summaries, cab shots (sure looks Spartan compared to what you see today), then an interior RPO picture plus postal covers. No wonder you hurt your hand posting all of that material. The we had those lovely D&RG PAs; that black and yellow color scheme made them look even longer than they were. Then more D&RG pictures and up to Amtrak. Way to go!

Rob gave us a look inside the engine compartment

Lars provided (of course) dome pictures.

I did ride the Zephyr, but it was in its Amtrak incarnation – so I know it doesn’t count here. Routing then was Burlington from Chicago to Denver, UP from Denver to Ogden via Cheyenne, and SP from Ogden. Train crew was more than tolerant so I rode across a lot of Wyoming shooting pictures from a Dutch door that just “happened” to be left open. All I can say is the scenery was something, and the UP 6900s were every bit as big as they looked in the magazines.

Anyway, I’m ready to go again, and most grateful to all who posted.

Today is Toys and Pikes and we’re off to a good start.

Barndad with TMs and that color spread of the DL&W TM from the catalog.

Then our ‘steamed proprietor with Ives (drool!) pictures and information in color.

IIRC, I mentioned NYC S motors in a post awhile back – you can see where Ives got their inspiration for this.

Back in the day, I recall visiting a friend who had several boxes of Ives and standard gauge trains and tracks. We’d take over the upper floor of his house, unbox the trains, and set that stuff up running from room to room. It was magnificent! Ives equipment sounded like an electric locomotive. They were truly indestructible. He also had a fair amount of Lionel equipment including a Virginian TM.

Work safe

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Outstanding kick-off to our Toys & Model Trains Day! by barndad Doug! [tup][tup][tup] Nicely put together article on those Lionel Trainmasters! And there's more coming! [wow]

Ted was "in" and "out" this AM . . . seems rather hurried and harried. I once knew a guy who was referred to as being "Busy at being busy!" Guess who that was[?] Moi! [swg]

Appreciate the return of coalminer3 - CM3 (I'm not Shane!) to the bar. Given that we don't see ya on weekends - missing a day during the week compounds the situation. Nevertheless, it doesn't take us long to sit back 'n enjoy your offerings! [tup][tup]

Glad you liked the Ives submission, figured you would! [swg] When I was a kid - as in very young, I have recollections of IVes trains at Christmas. Don't know whose they were - but at some point in my childhood, they just disappeared. I recall a green locomotive and three passenger cars. I loved those trains and was permitted to run 'em 'til I was dragged off to bed. [swg] [tup] But that "mystery" is still unresolved and I'll never really know "who" provided those trains for me for three or four successive Christmases. They were indeed indestructable and fun to run. Some mighty fine recollections from those times.

Thanx for the quarters and round! [tup]

Let's see, Lars is en route his property in upstate NY.
BK is en route a new life with Lydia.
Ted 'n I will be departing for Toronto in the AM.
Rob will be involved with our Rendezvous in the PM 'til sometime Sunday.
Al is out of touch until sometime tomorrow (we hope!)

So guys, it's clearly going to be "different" 'round the premises for the next several days. Up to y'all to keep 'er going.

Also: sure would appreciate it if someone - anyone - would drop a daily Post on "my other Thread" while I'm gone. Pix - Encores would be fine! Would be a shame to lose it . . . .Thanx!

Catch ya later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good aftrenoon Tom, I know you aren;'t used to seeing my face so often in daylight. I've bought stocks in Banana Boat Sunscreen [:D][yeah]. Figured that i would pop by for a chat and a wiggly pop or two [swg]

I trust that all is progressing well today on what was formerly pikes perspectives day. I can't read the most recent stuff on the current page unfortunatly. Some of the picture files are too big so I can't scroll past Doug's fine trainmaster post. Anyway we can make the size of the picture files smaller gents, you know for us with the elderly dial up systems [sigh] Oh well I'm actually using page 4 as a reply window. Neat stuff that I'm reminissing here [tup] I'll have a small " topic " post in a minute. Hopefully we'll hit page 328 shortly and I won't miss too much stuff .

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Back again with some acknowledgments for the late nite crowd! [swg]

Nick Always appreciate your visits and discourse. Same for Rob! Your Posts put us over the twenty "benchmark" - 22 as a matter of fact! [tup][tup]

I sincerely appreciate the offerings regarding the derailment issue I brought up. I have tried those suggestions, guys. My Budd corrugated streamliners are made by Con-Cor and had truck mounted couplers and were very, very light. With added weights and a change to body mounted couplers, the derailments and uncoupling problems were drastically REDUCED. Seriously. Now, other manufacturers factor in with the Can-Am - Rivarossi/IHC 'n Walthers Trainline series for the passenger fleet. The RDCs are all made by LifeLike (Proto 1000 series) - and they do NOT experience problems.

I really think the problem is one that I could have avoided - but didn't. The radius is 22" and I had wanted a greater one - but the manufacturer of the track I purchased only provided 22". So that may very well be the issue. Much too late to rip up all that track work (which I wouldn't do).

The idea of using metal wheels has cropped up many times, unfortuantely, I couldn't locate the proper ones for my cars (I know they are out there!) that fit within my budget. Then the idea sort of just dissipated. I will check again. Thanx, Rob!

I like the idea of using my switchers to tow those passenger cars back into the station. I have two SW7s - one in VIA Rail livery and one Amtrak. That appears to be the most practical and sensible solution! Thanx, Sir Nick!!

Didn't want to forget you two . . . and wi***he three of us would make a foursome tomorrow! That would've been a terrific get-together. Add Pete to the mix, and we'd probably all wind up in the "jug!" <grin>

RIng the bell, Boris drinks on me! [swg]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Hi Tom I see that you are logged in at the moment as well so I'll pull up both our stools and get you a round of blue's while I put this little bit of toy train info out there. This is an excerpt from the RMC collectors corner columne drawing out some early comparasins between early OO , O , and HO scales in the late 1930's

Double O has been around since 1927 when Ed Alexander imported models and parts from England. OO is a British scale a 4mm scale, which ran on 16.5mm HO scale track,roughly sized out at 1/76 as opposed to HO's 1/87. It was smaller and cheaper than American O guage. Most of the early OO manufacturers that sold product in NA quickly made sure that the trackage was set to exact linear HO scale for ease of compatibility , but left the 1/76 proportions on the models themselves ( still happens today ) Some of these early companies were Star , Nason ,and Nimco. OO was already established as a small segment of the train market, when in 1937 a bigger comapny jumped into the fray.

Argumnets had raged between supporters of HO and OO as to which was better ( eerily similar to the DCC debates of today ) these argumnets were actually listed in Scale Crafts 1937 catalouge !. Scale Craft was known for their fine O scale models, which were at the time some of the best detailed ones on the market. All done in cast aluminum, opassenger cars , freight cars and several locomotive kits a PRR K4,and NYC J1E were the headliners. As stated the first 17 pages of their 37 catalouge listed the argumnets pro and con and disscussing the sapcial advantages of OO and HO over conventional O scale.Scale craft supported OO at the time as they found that the slighttly larger size allowed them more room for scale detail and larger motors. they felt that they could not produce a small enough HO scale motor to pull a 20 car train without over heating ( remebering everything was cast aluminum at the time ) they webnt on to say that the increase in size and therfore weight of the OO gave them 10 times the pulling power of the HO of the day.

OO was still their second best line . But Scalecraft satrted a highly detailed OO line of freight cars passenger cars and locomotives, an entire kit locomotive track cars etc, which the hobbist "finished costed less than one of their O scale locomotive kits ! They further used a 7 pole permag motor to run on two rail as well.The cost of this kit was $32.75 as a kit or $45.00 finished. Imagine that in 1937 ! easliy a months wages.

Just a small look at the primordial versions of the smaller scale production back when O was still truly King.

Rob

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your kind welcomes!

My drink of choice? Come now. I'm literally sitting 14 miles from the Jack Daniels distillery.....so make mine a Gentleman Jack and Coke, if you would be so kind. (grins)

Needless to say, reading all these posts, as well as wandering around the 'hall' has dregged up so many old memories, it's pathetic. I even went on a search for an old Trains magazine that I had lost many years ago, but remembered the cover vividly last night (a closeup of a railroader holding his Hamilton pocketwatch checking the time), and discovered it was the May 1968 issue....and I received it for my birthday that year. Why was I so interested in finding a back issue of this particular magazine? I finally got hold of an example of that very watch....a Hamilton 992B Model 15 in a stainless steel case. So, a circle has been completed for me. Now to obtain a replacement issue of that magazine, and those wheels have already been put in motion.

Sorry to ramble. Just pleased to have found the door.

High regards! Michaelson

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please.

Good fini***o yesterdays theme day. MIKE more great links[tup]. Loved the photo of Zeph the Burro although Zeph dosent look too exicted and there seems to be on old steam loco in the background in the same photo. The Virtual tour of the Zephyr really is amazing[wow].

NICK Glad you liked the Ethel post.. The Mid-Wales line from Shrewsbury to Aberyswyth/ Pwehelli was a stomping ground for the class 24s and later the 25s. It was one of the last lines that the 25s worked regular passenger turns and attracted many railfans during their last days.

Great start to the 2nd Toy and Model Train day DOUG those TrainMasters look impressive locos in full scale and model form.

ROB Thanks for the info on the HO and OO guages. It is only recently that we have come off dial-up. I know the problems specially on Sunday photo day. I generally get the photos now but now and then the puter still does odd things.

CM3 I bet the UP 6900 made a great sound climbing the grades, they have one in the St Louis Transportation museum they certainly are a large locos.

TOM Very interesting piece and great pics on the Ives Co. I wonder what the lawyers of today would make of a toy cannon that used real gunpowder and despite making model boats that sank they made some good models. I think my farvorite is the Trolley that picked up the juice from the cantenery.

May I say Hi and welcome to MICHAELSON I hope you enjoy Our Place

Well TOM, TED and ROB no doubt you will have a great time in Toronto.I would have dearly loved to be with you and probably would have been apart from going to England pretty soon. Anyway try not to follow the old advert and Drink Canada DRY. Hope to pop in later PETE.