"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Work, work, work..........but here we are. BTW, gas is $2.79 here (went up 14 cents yesterday between 9 a.m. and noontime). My car was in the hospital and I got it back today - for a change the parts cost more than the labor. WV terrain and road conditions do wonders for brakes, front ends, etc.

I'm glad the baseball post started things rolling a little. Then we had more historical material, Jesse James, RDCs, rugby matches. What an eclectic grouping (No Boris, not electric).

The NYC's jet Budd has always piqued some interest. For those of you who are flying machine buffs, IIRC, the engines on the RDC came off of a B-47; one of the best looking aircraft ever built. Go watch "Strategic Air Command" for some great pictures of B47s and B36s, too. Almost forgot this has baseball in it as well (Cardinals, yet). Maybe our "steamed proprietor can run it at ther Mentor Theatuh some evening. Jimmy Stewart and June Alyson (don't think I have spelled her last name correctly).

In line with our now and then coal postings. Here's a list of active anthracite (!) mines in 1950. Check out which railroads served these operations. I was talking with some anthracite mining friends this morning which brought this list to mind.

Anthracite Mines – 1950

Central Railroad Co. of New Jersey

Sam Capone Coal Co.
Miners Mills Mine – Plains, PA – CNJ/Erie
Duryea Anthracite Coal Co., Inc.
Ridgewood Breaker – Laflin, PA
West End Colliery – Mocanaqua, PA – CNJ/PRR
Glen Alden Coal Co.
South Wilkes-Barre No. 5 – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Huber No. 20 – Ashley, PA
Kidder-Empire – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Wanamie No. 18 – Wanamie, PA
Buttonwood No. 22 – Buttonwood, PA
Audenried No. 4 – Audenried, PA
Nottingham – Plymouth, PA – DL&W/CNJ

Delaware and Hudson Railroad

John Conlon Coal Co.
Madeira Breaker – Hudson, PA – Erie/D&H
DeAngelis Coal Company
Boland Mine – Carbondale, PA
Heidelberg Coal Co.
Heidelberg No. 1 Mine – Avoca, PA – LV/D&H
Hudson Coal Co.
Baltimore Mines – Parsons, PA
Coal Brook Mine – Carbondale, PA
Delaware Mine – Hudson, PA
Eddy Creek Mine – Olyphant, PA
Gravity Slope Mine – Archbald, PA
Greenwood Mine – Minooka, PA
Laflin (Breaker) – Hudson, PA
Loree Nos. 2,3,4,5 and Boston Collieries – Plymouth, PA
Marvine Colliery – Providence, PA
Olyphant Colliery – Olyphant, PA
Pine Ridge Colliery – Parsons, PA
Powderly Colliery – Mayfiled, PA
Delaware, Lackawanna & Western

Courtdale Coal Co.
Ciurtdale Mine – Courtdale, PA (Luzerne County)
Dial Rock Coal Co.
Dial Rock Colliery – Wyoming, PA
Glen Alden Coal Co.
Truesdale – Auchincloss, PA
Bliss – Auchincloss, PA
Baker – Scranton, PA
Woodward – Kingston, PA
Lance No. 11 – Plymouth, PA- DL&W/CNJ
Avondale – Plymouth, PA
Loomis – Auchnicloss, PA
Harry E. Coal Co.
Harry E. and Forty Fort Collieries – Luzerne – LV/DL&W
Meadowside Coal Co.
Dunmore Colliery – Dunmore, PA – Erie/DL&W
Moffat Coal Company
Taylor Colliery – Taylor, PA

Erie Railroad

Ace Coal Co
Ace Breaker – Blakely, PA (Lackawanna County)
Sam Capone Coal Co.
Miners Mills Mine – Plains, PA – CNJ/Erie
John Conlon Coal Co.
Madeira Breaker – Hudson, PA – Erie/D&H
Consagra Coal Co,.
Blakely Breaker – Jessup, PA
Gateway Coal Co.
Forest City Washery – Forest City, PA
Meadowside Coal Co.
Dunmore Colliery – Dunmore, PA – Erie/DL&W
Moosic Mountain Coal Co.
Moosic Mountain Breaker – Jessup, PA
Motley Coal Co.
Erie Colliery – Mayfield, PA

Northwest Coal Co.
Northwest Colliery – Carbondale, PA – Erie/NYO&W
No. 9 Coal Co. – Affiliated with Harry E. Coal Co., Sullivan Trail Co., and Indian Head Coal Co.
No. 9 Colliery – Avoca, PA
Butler Mine – Pittston, PA
Pennsylvania Coal Company
Underwood Colliery – Jessup, PA

Lehigh and New England Railroad

Lehigh Navigation Coal Company
Coaldale Colliery – Coaldale, PA
Lansford Colliery – Lansford, PA
Tamaqua Colliery – Tamaqua, PA

Lehigh Valley Railroad

Bernice White Ash Coal Co., Inc.
Connell Mine – Bernice, PA (Sullivan County?)
Colitz Coal Co., Inc.
Colitz Colliery – York Farm Jct. (Schuylkill County)
Harry E. Coal Co.
Harry E. and Forty Fort Collieries – Luzerne – LV/DL&W
Hazle Brook Coal Company
Continental Mine – Centralia, PA
Midvalley Colliery – Wilburton, PA
Heidelberg Coal Co.
Heidelberg No. 1 Mine – Avoca, PA – LV/D&H
Hydrotated Anthracite Fuel Co., Inc.
Cold Spring No. 6 Washery – Milnesville, PA
Jeddo-Highland Coal Co.
Drifton Mine – Jeddo, PA
Eckley & Buck Mountain Mines – Jeddo, PA
Jeddo No. 4 Mine – Jeddo, Pa
Highland No. 5 Mine – Jeddo, PA – Coal prepared at Jeddo No. 7
Stockton Mine – Jeddo, PA
Jeddo No. 7 Breaker – Jeddo, PA
Kehoe-Berge Coal Company
William A; No. 10 Tunnel; Phoenix A; Red Ash; Stevens; No. 11 Slope Mine – Old Forge, PA – LV/NYO&W
Exeter Mine – Pittston, PA
Lehigh Valley Coal Company
Dorrance Colliery – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Henry Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Prospect Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Westmoreland Mine – Wyoming, PA
Hazleton Shaft Colliery – Hazleton, PA
Franklin Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Locust Coal Company
Weston Colliery – Shenandoah, PA
Mammoth Coal Co.
Mammoth Colliery – Raven Run, PA LV/RDG
Morea Mining Co.
Morea Colliery – Morea, PA – LV/PRR
Payne Coal Co.
Spring Mountain Mine – Jeanesville, PA

New York, Ontario and Western Railway (NYO&W)

Kehoe-Berge Coal Company
William A; No. 10 Tunnel; Phoenix A; Red Ash; Stevens; No. 11 Slope Mine – Old Forge, PA – LV/NYO&W
Northwest Coal Co.
Northwest Colliery – Carbondale, PA – Erie/NYO&W

Pennsylvania Railroad

Duryea Anthracite Coal Co., Inc.
West End Colliery – Mocanaqua, PA – CNJ/PRR
Franklin-Lykens Coal Co.
Lykens Colliery – Lykens, PA
Gowen Coal Co.
Gowen Colliery – Gowen, PA
Landingville Coal Company
River Dredging Operations – Landingville, Adamsdale, PA –
RDG/PRR
Morea Mining Co.
Morea Colliery – Morea, PA – LV/PRR
Natalie Coal Corp.
Colonial Breaker – Natalie, PA – RDG/PRR
Philadelphia & Reading Coal & Iron Company
Oak Hill Colliery – Minersville, PA – RDG/PRR

Reading Railroad

Buck Run Colliery Co.
Buck Run Mine – Minersville, PA
D&B Coal Co., Inc.
Branch Breaker – Llewellyn, PA
Eagle Hill Coal Co.
Whitby Colliery – Pottsville, PA
Gilberton Coal Co.
Gilberton Mine – Gilberton, PA
Hammond Coal Company
Hammond Colliery – Girardville, PA
Indian Head Coal Company
Indian Head Colliery – Tremont, PA
Joliett Coal Co.
Joliett Colliery – Goodspring, PA
Kohinoor Coal Co.
Kohinoor Colliery – Shenandoah, PA
Landingville Coal Company
River Dredging Operations – Landingville, Adamsdale, PA – RDG/PRR
Mammoth Coal Co.
Mammoth Colliery – Raven Run, PA LV/RDG
Mid-Valley Coal Co., Inc.
Mid-Valley Breaker – Pottsville, PA
Mountain Top Coal Co.
Bell Colliery – Tuscarora, PA
Natalie Coal Corp.
Colonial Breaker – Natalie, PA – RDG/PRR
Otto Collieries Co.
Otto Colliery – Branchdale, PA
Philadelphia & Reading Coal & Iron Company
St. Nicholas Central Breaker – St. Nicholas, PA
Knickerbocker Mine – Shenandoah, PA
Reliance Mine – Mt. Carmel, PA
Locust Gap Mine – Locust Gap, PA
Potts Mine – Locust Dale, PA
Oak Hill Colliery – Minersville, PA – RDG/PRR
Hunter Mine – Coal prepared at Locust Summit and Oak Hill Breakers
Porter Tunnel Colliery – Tower City, PA
Sheridan Washery – Tower City, PA

work safe

[LoveDomes]

G'day Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

How about a nice cold frosty mug of Scheafer beer[?] Slide that bowl of pretzels down this way, wudja[?] Thanks! Here's a ten spot for a round on me or for the "Lars Box" - your choice![tup]

So, Coalminer-what's-his-face did show up, huh[?] Not sure by the gist of his post that he caught what we're trying to do this day. Looks as if BK and I have to get back to the drawing boards . . .

That's quite an impressive list of anthracite mines - wonder how many are still active[?] No, no, no - don't tell us![swg]

Eclectic - electric - whatever! We understand, right Boris[?][:O][%-)]

Hey "bookend" you made it!! Sorry about the connectivity thing - can be a Royal Pain in the Patoot (if those things are measured in Royalty increments!)[swg] Nevertheless, you "done good" and I concur, next time we'll try to hold a muster for the guys we can count on to join in. I think the boss-man was suprised and pleased with our efforts. After all, he didn't send Tex out to bite our ankles did he[?][swg]

Nice shots of those NYC Jets!![tup][tup]

I must have sent a half dozen emails out to people on the net, asking for the ok to use their pix. No resonses - not a one. Looks like Tom has much better luck in doing these kinds of things. My experiences have been that if you look long and hard enough, you'll find all kinds of pix out there that are not listed as "copyright" or otherwise protected. Those are the ones I go for first. I've read more than one account where the courts are finding that once stuff is put "out there" it's awfully hard, if not impossible, to guarantee rights to it, much less protect it.
Another unintended consequence of the technology, huh[?]

Rob Toronto should have snapped up all of those Via Rail RDCs that ultimately wound up in Texas - or at least sufficient numbers to guarantee a fleet for the airport run. Such a shame indeed. But what really should happen is to go with more modern technology - mono rail or MagLev, etc. High speed runs make much more sense with "clean" fuels and automation wherever possible. That's what is happening all over the world and of course in our amusement parks and to link concourses at many international airports! Wouldn't think of using the technology for "real" huh[?]

I'll have another, barkeep! Went down awfully s-m-o-o-t-h!<grin>


Until the next time!

Lars

[BudKarr]

Good Afternoon Captain Tom and all assembled!

Back again, and this time we are functioning in the "router mode!" My "techie roomie" finally got us up and running. A combination of far too much information coupled with some simplicity made for a "fix." Will not even chance an attempt at explaining any of this . . .

Figured I would add a bit of conversation to the Friday mix - if for no other reason than to give you a respite and keep the thread up on the forum page, as you like to put it.[swg] I see the JOs are out in force again with their incessant crap, nonsense and otherwise brainless postings. Then again, my guess is many probably put us in those categories as well. In the words of our "steamed Proprietor,"

QUOTE: Screw 'em all, but six and save those for pallbearers!

[swg]

I surely am a bit down in the mouth about not being able to upload/download and otherwise reload those pix I had in mind for today. Not at all sure about Sunday for us - and right now, I think the next couple are going to be a bit difficult in terms of spending time at the keyboard. That was one of the reasons I had wanted to get a let up on photo posting now. As mentioned, the best of intentions . . .

How about a round on me and a Southern Comfort on the rocks[?] Oh yes, my intended would like a glass of white wine, if you please!

To one and all, enjoy the weekend as we progress toward the 12th of April.[tup]

BK

[wanswheel]

A round for the house, Tom, and there is no chance that your thread is underappreciated where I'm at.
If it's not too soon to say so, Our Place is, apart from everything else that it is, a stunning achievement!
Early congratulations and thank you very much for keeping this joint way up to standards.
It's an honor to share space here .

"The world's first large swept-wing jet, the B-47 was a revolution in aviation technology. It incorporated a plethora of new concepts that had a direct and lasting impact on future jet aircraft, both military and commercial. The B-47 pioneered the basic design for large jets, incorporating swept wings at 35 degrees and introducing podded engines. The B-47 design continues to be the basic pattern for current and future jet transports including the A380 and 7E7. Lessons learned resulted in spoilers, yaw dampers, maintenance access and structural integrity." http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2003/december/photos/12-COV-B-47.jpg

Wingspan 116 feet. A monster of an airplane but a B-17 could've fit (on its tail or sideways) in the waiting room of the old Penn Station, 7th to 8th Avenues and 31st to 33rd Streets
http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgdisplaylargemeta.cfm?strucID=229939&imageID=440639&word=pennsylvania%20station&s=1¬word=&d=&c=&f=&lWord=&lField=&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&num=36&imgs=12&total=45&pos=37 http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=3231503&cdi=0 Tracks & Post Office
http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=51743312&cdi=0 Night
Mike

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Tom and the crew, Round of CR, easy ice. Well, on the road again, but i'm back for now.. I see the joint is jumping and the return of several who have been absent for are too long.

Waneswheel, the B47 take was interesting, several former SAC pilots I work with nicknamed them "The Widow Maker" for their eratic flight controls that was responsible for a much publicized horrendous takeoff crash at George AFB in the late fifties, in memory of their fallen crew members..

Dang, Lars.. missed the party, have a round or several on me. I'll have Boris give you a i'm sorry kiss!!!


Rob, don't get me started on so called urban renewal, too many historic structures have been lost already, here in my area several PE structures have been converted into restraunts, disco's or any manner of usues except historic railroad interpertation if they even survived being asunder to widen roadways or to fatten the pocket of some local developer. Such a fate awaited what is believed tobe the last existence PE wooden depot, it took many years and untold dollars and lots of back room dealing to save it from being torn down to make for a roadway improvement project.

Tom, RDC's do indeed come in all varities!!! Budd had a home run with these, I understand the Alaskan RR still runs a few, re-engined with Cat 300hp plants and microprocessor controls to comply with the new tier 2 emission standards good for over 100mph, though they operate in the 30-45 mph range to quote a mechanical official!! They are used in the off tourist season when it is not conducive to assemble a full consits when just locals are the riders and as a added bonus they can buck two feet of snow thus elimating the need to run a pilot engine ahead to clear the line.

SP trvia:

Once upon the great terminal at Roseville boasted two complete roundhouses, turntable and shops, one for articulated power the second for all other steam power, the articulated barn was located conveiently where Cab Forwards could be changed for lighter power which handle the rest of the run to Oakland, likewise eastbounds change out power or aquired helpers for the climb over Donner Summit. Shasta Route traffic also passed through this bottleneck and one can't forget the North Western Pacific line to Shaffer that diverged at Roseville. To handle this traffic two humpyards were employed with a third flat yard for locals. With the Sacramento Shops close by, this by far was the largest terminal on the system until Colton was constructed, over 200 trains a day were assembled/brokenup had power added or changed during the steam era, locals, passengers, if it operated on the SP, Roseville was somehow involved.

The conversion to diesel shook Roseville to the core, in 1960 the Articulated roundhouse was razed the turntable removed and the pit filled in, to handle the changes wrought by diesels the hump yards were ripped out and rebuilt with stronger retarders and longer classification tracks. Soon roundhouse two would also be gone, replaced with a modest diesel service facality. Changing traffic patterns and operating would allow some trains to run through without pause. Some things could not be changed,the traditional terminal for helpers and a base for winter snowfighting remained as it had always been.

Dave

[siberianmo]

G'day!

A Friday not soon to be forgotten! THANX to Lars 'n BK for putting it together, much appreciated![tup][tup][tup] I don't think either of you should feel bad about one aspect of the day - you tried - it worked - you made my day![swg]

The best RR book that I've come across regarding RDCs is this one:



If I have any complaint it is that sufficient time has elapsed for an update. The authors should seriously consider a "part deux!!"[yeah]

Many THANX also for the rounds and quartes for our Coal Scuttle![tup]

Today really wasn't a "party" as such - that's a misread. It was a heartfelt effort to show a bit of appreciation directed towards me by a couple of supportive customers.

Good to see all of you today and for whatever you've gotten out of the Posts, my hope is that the "buzzword" should continue to be "inclusiveness" . . .

Also should mention the kind words from wanswheel Mike - and of course the URLs. I think the "Urlmeister" is by far the leader in providing the most relevant material to the discussion of the day. Good show![tup][tup]

Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!

Later (maybe]![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[LoveDomes]

Good Evening!

Back again with one more post to close out the "theme" we tried to establish for you:

Budd Company

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Budd Company (now ThyssenKrupp Budd) is a metal fabricator and major supplier of body components to the automobile industry.

The company is headquartered in Troy, Michigan. It was founded in 1912 by Edward G. Budd. Edward Budd's fame came from his invention of the 'shotweld' technique for joining pieces of stainless steel without damaging the anti-corrosion properties of the stainless steel.

A railroad legend



The first Budd passenger railcar, the Lafayette, 1932From the 1930s until 1989 The Budd Company was also a leading manufacturer of stainless steel streamlined passenger rolling stock for a number of railroads. After briefly dabbling with French Micheline rubber-tyred technology, they built the Pioneer Zephyr for the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad in 1934, and hundreds of streamlined lightweight stainless steel passenger cars for new trains in the USA in the 1930s and 1940s. In the 1950s Budd built a set of two-story or high-level cars for the Santa Fe's El Capitan and Super Chief passenger trains, which became the prototypes for the Amtrak Superliner cars of the 1980s. Budd also built two-story gallery passenger cars for Chicago-area commuter service on the Milwaukee Road, Burlington Route, and Rock Island lines duing the 1960s and 1970s; most of these cars are still in service on today's Metra routes. Stainless steel Budd cars originally built for the Canadian Pacific Railway's 1955 train The Canadian are still in service with Via Rail Canada.

Train in one car

In 1949, Budd introduced the Rail Diesel Car or RDC, a stainless steel self-propelled 'train in one car' which prolonged rail service on many lightly populated railway lines, but also provided a flexible, air conditioned car for suburban commuter service. More than 300 RDCs were built. Some RDCs are still in service in Canada, the USA and Australia. One example is OnTrack in Syracuse, New York. In the 1960's, Budd built the Pioneer III electric m.u. coach for intercity travel. Six were built and were purchased by the former Pennsylvania Railroad, but in 1966, these Pioneer III cars, later called "Silverliner I" cars, were replaced with the "Silverliner II" cars, which used the Pioneer III body, but with much improvements, for Philadelphia-area commuter rail service on both the PRR and Reading Company lines. Budd was also contracted for building the original Metroliner m.u. coaches for Washington-New York City service on the Northeast Corridor, but has been replaced with more traditional locomotive-hauled systems. The Silverliner II cars, still in service (but is slated to be replaced with newer "Silverliner V" cars), has a top speed of 100 m.p.h., while the old Metroliner m.u. cars traveled at speeds of 125 m.p.h., although they were slated for 150 m.p.h. service--a feat now possible with the new Acela trainset

Almond Joys

In 1960. Budd manufactured the first stainless steel production subway cars for Philadelphia's Market-Frankford Line. 270 cars (nicknamed the Almond Joys for the 4 ventilators on top of the roof of each car) were jointly owned by the City of Philadelphia and the Philadelphia Transportation Company (now SEPTA). 46 single units and 112 married pairs (the pairs were of "mixed" marriage because the odd-numbered car came with General Electric motors and equipment was permanently coupled to the even-numbered car, which had Westinghouse motors and equipment). These cars were replaced with more modern air-conditioned units, although some cars were retrucked (the Market-Frankford line is a broad-gauge line) and used on the Norristown High Speed Line (a standard railroad gague line) until they were replaced in the mid-1990's.

Automobile innovations

In 1966, Budd designed and manufactured a front disc brake system for Chrysler and Imperial automobiles, used for the 1967 and 1968 model years.

Budd also built two series of "L" cars for the Chicago Transit Authority, the 2200s (1969–1970) and 2600s (1981–1987). The New York City Subway R32 (1964-1965), Long Island Rail Road/Metro-North Railroad M-1 (1968–1973/M2 (1973-1976)/M3 (1984-1986), NJ Transit Arrow III (1978), Baltimore Metro Subway and Miami Metrorail cars (1983) were also built by Budd.

All of Amtrak's 492 Amfleet and 150 Amfleet II cars were built by Budd in 1977 and 1980/1981. The Amfleet body was recycled for usage in the SPV2000, a modernized RDC which was very problematic, saw only three buyers (Amtrak, Metro-North, and ConnDOT), and saw very premature retirements. The fallout from the SPV2000 furthered the decline of the company.

In the early 1980s, Budd reorganized its rail operations under the name Transit America, this name appearing on the builderplates of the Baltimore/Miami cars and Chicago's later 2600s (but not the LIRR/Metro-North M3s). The new name did not save the company, as in 1987 Budd ended all railcar production and sold its rail designs to Bombardier.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A round for the house on me and I'll take a cold, frosty mug of Keiths Pale Ale - thank you!


Until the next time![tup]

Lars

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

Leon I'll take a Keiths while I check out that Post from Lars on the Budd Company. Nice work and THANX (again) for the treat![tup][tup][tup] Don't recall youl being around so often,. except of course for Bash and 'special' events. Really appreciate it - you've "come to save the day!!" And you 'n BudKarr surely have![wow]

Just thought I'd get that "leg up" on the 'morrow - as I won't have very much time for Posting on Saturday - which of course is ENCORE! Saturday - hope someone is able to 'step up' and help out.

Check this out:

Budd SPV2000 (foto credit: Joe Testagrose)


New Haven Budd RDC Roger Williams (foto credit: B. Coolidge


Amtrak Budd RDC Roger Williams (foto credit: B. Coolidge


G'nite![zzz]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon, I think a round of Bud in deference to the fine efforts put forth by the bookends over the coarse of today. I have to commend you both for hatching and successfully deploying your give Tom a break plan.Not only was the information excellent it was very much on theme for the whole idea of this wonderfull little creation of Tom's. Kudos and hats off to both of you.[^]

Lars As I had said earlier today your two Budd posts were right on,solid info and I know that Tom appreciated it very much.

BK Hey connectivity problems or not you manged to hit us with the appropriate pictures, for the NYC "jetcar"full marks for the perserverance through the roter problems. Ican personally attest to the annoyances of dial up as that is my way onto the web for the time being anyway. There are days that I don't feel like dealing with the skow draggyness of it,but for this thread I probably wouldn't bother, but the crew here for the most part is second to none.

CM3 Interesting list of coalhaulers,I was supprised at the number of mines served by the D&H. Not a road I would equate to coal,but there it is in black and white.

Tom Fret not about tomorrow, I have the early shift in the morning,however I shall put up an encore in a few moments and I will check back tomorrow a nudge things along.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Silly me my brain must be completly addled, I was amiss and did not reply to a couple queries/comments aimed at me earlier. i sahll noww try to make amense


Lars I think thta an airport transit link in Toronto is inevitable,they just haven't manged to come up with a workable ( read affordable ) plan. Many proposals from RDC's to literail to subways to just plain strait VIA or Go Transit have been put foreward. There was even a though of doing a monorail type run similar to those in Disney's parks. ( likely the most far fetched and least likley choice ) mind you if it costs more that's where Toronto tends to go. One of the biggest , most extreme example of them dropping the ball was the loss of those RDC's to Dallas. I can remember taking the Go train to Blue Jay games and seeing those cars parked in the Mimico Yard just before Union station for at least three years while VIA searched for a buyer. Just no forward vision,In the long run my bet is on a lite rail type system likely run by the TTC,of coarse this would depend on some heavy government funding from all three levels,it's the getting the threee to work together and pick a plan that's taken all the time. I migth see it done by the time I'm 50, i figure that gives them 15 yeasr to pick it and build it.

Dave Saw your post hiding there.There just is too little preservation being done in general. I've seen too many historic train stations have mysterious "fires" the last 10 yeasr or so. Oddly enough the only way you can remove old trainstations legally in Ontario now is if they are damaged tio the point of being unsafe. As about 15 or so years ago the prov. gov, passed the historic stations act, which gave blanket herritage building status to all the train stations in the province,mwhich means they must not just simpy be bulldozed. If you want to build where it is you must oay to move it,thus the rash of fires. Unfortunatly the act gives no money to maintain the stations, that is a private sector thing. At least it's some protection.


Rob

[trolleyboy]

ENCORE ! ENCORE !

First encore for this saturday,put forward with the mind that the rendezvous is so close that we can smell it,that or it's just Boris's new cologne.[:0][xx(]This post first appeared on page 248.

Rob


I figured that with the rendezvous fast approaching that I would run a few bits on the TTC. as some here know the TTC has only existed as such since 1921,it was made up of 5 separate lines ( all with their own fare systems and not transferable between each other ) all serving the city of Toronto. So the next couple of days I'll try to splain some of the nuances.

CLASSIC JUICE # 21 THE PRE HISTORY OF THE TTC PART 1

Toronto Street Railway Company

This company was incorporated in march of 1861,with Alexander Easton becoming it's president. the company was given a thity year franchise from the city of Toronto, to provide horsecar service on Yonge street, Quenn and King streets. Cars were not to exceed 6 miles an hour,and would work sixteen hours during the summer months and fourteen hours during the winter.There was to be no less than 30 min headway between cars, and the fares were to be set at 5 cents.

The company proceeded with these operations until 1869 when they ran into financial distress ( missed bond payments ). Trustee William Casey was appointed to right the ship. In 1873 William and George Kiely took over the assets of the company, and were granted a new act of incorporation to continue the companies obligations to the franchise.The company remained under Kiely control until 1891 when the franchise expired and the city assumed control.

Tornto Railway Company

The city of Toronto continued to operate the street railways until sept of 1891 when the group under William McKenzie ( of McKenzie and Mann intrests ) bouhgt the operation from the city, and began operations on a new 30 year franchise. The New company was now known as the Toronto Railway Company ( TRC ), and would become the largest operator of street railway lines in toronto until the comming of the TTC in 1921.

During the days of the TRC, electrification of the entire system occured and the horse cars were withdrawn.Extenions top the system were made, and the introdustion of open cars in the summer and closed cars in the winter began. Stoves were also installed in these new electric cars ( closed )new double truck and single truck designs ( TR Cars ) were constructed. Double truck cars were mostly rebuilt with airbrakes starting in 1905. ( ahnd brakes were banned in 1917 on passenger cars ).

In 1915, open cars were banned by the Railway Municiple board, and all cars were henceforth required to be the closed type with doors at front and rear. Lifeguards were added to car fronts providing new safety features.There had been many complaints that pedestrians would be maimed or killed if they fell in front of moving cars accidentally if these features were not insatlled. ( Consider the garb of women at the time and the rutted unpaved for the most part roads of this period )

Another improvement which the TRC completed during it's franchise was the replacement of the horse car tracks with heavier girder rail which could more easily support the newer heavier cars. Sunday service was approved by council vote in 1897 making it easier for the public to access beaches and other lesure activities. Even the horse cars were brought back as trailers for the new TR cars to handle the heavier peek traffic times during the week.

progress came to a halt in 1910, when the TRC refused the cities request to expand beyond their original franchise bounderies, as set out in 1891. This decision was upheld by the courts and as a result the cities expansion into the newly annexed areas was hampered. The TRC would uphld this desision until the end of it's franchise on August 31 , 1921. The TRC as a compnay existed on paper until 1930.

Part 1

Rob

[trolleyboy]

ENCORE ! ENCORE ! First encore or the new day ( yes it's still dark here so the counts all good as they say.)
I shall returne later this evening to keep us moving on up today. Enjoy your morning folks.This post originally "aired" on pg 249

Rob
CLASSIC JUICE # 22 THE PREHISTORY OF THE TTC PT 2

As we left of before we were disscussing the pre - merger/ city ownership and control of the now TTC. Pt when delt with the TRC and the old Horse railways from 1861-1921.

The Toronto Civic Railways

Beacause of the refusal on the TRC's part to expand,the city felt something had to be done if development in it's newly annexed areas were to proceed.The Toronto Civic Railways (TCR) was crated in 1911 to this end. Lines were constructed on St Clair,Lansdowne, and Danforth avenues, and on Gerrard and Bloor Streets.There was a fare of 2 cents charged, six tickets for a dime,and transfer privilages on the St Clair amd Lansdowne routes, as these were the only two Civic lines that were physically connected to one another.No transfer arrangements were made with the TRC.The Civic lines did not use turning loops so as such all their cars were double ended. The Civic would continue in operation until 1921, when it was brought under the control of the TTC.

The Toronto Suburban Railway

The TSR, which operated radial lines out of Toronto,provided transportation in the city over some of their own streetcar routes at a separate fare cost.These services ran from the "junction" area of Dundas and Keele streets to the western and northern city limits.Also operated was a route from St Clair and Keele along Davenport Road ending at Bathurst Street.

After TTC operations took over in 1921, the TSR continued to operate these routes for the TTC " in trust ". Once negotiations were concluded in 1923 the TTC aquired these routes outright

Toronto and York Radial Railways

The T & YRR, also operated several radial lines in the Toronto area, and amongst these were severak separate fare street car lines operated inside the city limits.These services were along Kingston Road from Queen street to Victoria Park Ave, Lakeshore Road from the Humber river to Roncesvalles Ave,and the area of Yonge street above Woodlawn Ave, which at the time was known as North Toronto whick was annexed by the city in 1912. Each of these lines continued nto the suburban hinterlands.

The T&Y lines were purchased by the city in 1920 so as to obtain the city protions of them for the TTC. After a period of operation by the Provinces Hydro Electric Commission, the rural portions of these lines also came under TTC control in Jan 1927.

Pt 3 later

Rob