"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

G’day!

It’s Pike Perspective’s Day! at ”Our” Place! Here’s a little something to perhaps rekindle some interest in the “Classic Toy Trains” that many of us recall from those childhood days of long ago. If you were like any of the guys I knew back then, these are the things dreams were made of:


1948 Lionel catalog



1949 Lionel catalog



1949 A C Gilbert catalog



1951 A C Gilbert catalog



Enjoy![tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of the usual and a round please.

DOUG Another great piece from the Railroad Magazine [tup]. The model locos that smoked arrived a lot later in the UK I my memory is correct.
One of the first was TRI-ANG's Britannia 4-6-2, it was produced by putting a liquid down the stack it used to smell awful. My pal at the time had one on his great layout which was his older brother,s who became a steam stoker working from the local depot.

Great catalog covers TOM. I used to get the catalogs although there was little chance of getting what was inside [:(].
Liked the pics of the Erector on the American Flyer although I am a little worried about the Atomic Energy on the last catalog[:-^].
Looking forward to the Little Known Railroads tomorrow[tup]. PETE.

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon Barkeep and All Preset; coffee, please; round for the house; $ for the jukebox. Yes, I know it's afternoon, but today was take the huns to the dentist (my wallet just took one in the engine room!)

Lots of good D&RGW material yesterday
Thanks to:
Budd Kar – for D&RGW ads – amazing what folks could do with b&w copy back in the day
Passengerfan – for car information
Lars – pictures
Also thanks for stories

The postwar Lionel material was fascinating. I don’t believe the control system ever got too far; at least I don’t remember seeing it anywhere. I did wire my layout for block control for signals, which was a little tedious, but it looked good, especially with the room lights out as our ‘steamed proprietor mentioned awhile back. Yes, I did have a ZW transformer but I shoveled a lot of driveways to get it...

The catalog pictures brought back memories as well.

This led me to think about some other things related to model railroads, especially kit manufacturers (maybe it was because I saw Boris inhaling the last of the old Strombecker glue I found in the basement.)

I have built models in just about any scale over the years (except for TT, probably because I never had the opportunity). This includes a fair amount of scratch building and kits. I model in N scale now as most of you know, with a time period from abt 1955-1960; got to have a way to run the steam power, you know.

Anyway, one manufacturer I remember is All Nation. I built more than a few of their O scale cars. These kits were like building real freight cars as they had a wooden floor wooden ends, wooden roof. Sides were metal and beautifully painted and lettered. I have a Nickel Plate box car I built years ago which I’ll stack up against anything that’s out there today. The builder had to set up the floor, ends and roof (make sure they’re square) and nail the car sides to the frame. Other appliances such as ladders were attached separately. IIRC, steps were formed from wire and attached. There really wasn’t much to the underbody except a casting to represent the air reservoir. The roof was metal over wood. The modeler then cut and attached pieces of channel to the roof to represent the roof ribs (braces if you’re not from here.) The channels had to be painted to match the color of the car roof. Then the roof walk was nailed on – again you had to be careful to center this or it looked like h!@#. I mentioned the underbody. Another piece of channel ran down the middle of the underside of the floor to allow attachment of trucks. Again, take care with drawing and locating pilot holes for the truck pins - if you didn't the car "crabbed" along the tracks. The trucks were not the best in the world, but they did o.k. Couplers were body mounted and clunky castings; but again, they were the best available at the time.

Now let’s turn to one other name – Ambroid. They had all sorts of kits. The ones I recall doing most were of passenger cars which closely resembled the old wooden cars on the B&M. I built, over the years, a bunch of these for different folks. Never kept one for myself though. They offered a coach and a combine which, with a little patience built up into a nice looking model. They also did some freight car kits as well. I have some of these - unopened - but for the life of me can't remember what they are.

I’ll close with one other – Campbell; I’m not talking abt. the current offerings, but the older ones. Again, I got my chops busted for using mom’s scissors to cut corrugated metal pieces for roofing on one of their kits. I know the working definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again thinking the result will be different.

Work safe

[LoveDomes]

G’day Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

A Pike Perspectives Day and I’m without so much as a pike much less anything of interest. I think the well has run dry for me, at least for awhile regarding model railroading.

We are a “Classic Trains” thread, after all – real trains first![swg] No knock on the posts featuring the model and toy trains, just that I’m on empty! [:(]

Today I’ll skip the hero and get right to the cold beer – some bar snacks should do. I like those fresh, crunchy pretzels and I see the popcorn machine looks full. That’s a “neat” looking device you’ve got, who ripped it off from the Emporium[?][swg]

I see that there’s been a bit of activity over on your “other thread,” even 20 Fingers has made an appearance. If anyone likes the Southern Pacific, take a peek. Good stuff![tup]

Thanks for the comments regarding my contributions to the “theme” of yesterday. Appreciate it![tup]

Those Lionel & American Flyer catalogs really bring back the memories you had hoped would resurface! I too used to collect those catalogs from the toy stores (that’s what I recall we called ‘em) and they were free. If I recall correctly, both Lionel and Gilbert came out with a few during the year, just subtle differences inside, but they were always in demand. Today, these things are being sold at a “premium” on eBay and the other “auction” sites. Amazing what some people will pay for other people’s discards. Kinda reminds me of garage scales, but with a middle man.

Anyway, just looking at those covers reminded me to tell you that my electric trains escaped the damages of our basement flood. However, I’m still hoping that the dampness down there hasn’t screwed up the ‘works.’ I’ll know that once I get my stern section in gear and start putting together my RRs – one Lionel, one AF. As I posted some pages ago, I have two sets of each, but never really had anything resembling a layout. Situational toys, more or less. But I always enjoyed running ‘em – just like you do, Tom with that S-Capades of yours.[tup]

No Coalminer “what’s his face’ today[?] Now THAT’s hard to accept! The guy is a fixture ‘round here with his morning posts. Must be trying to impress the boss, huh[?][swg] Ooooooooops, as I live ‘n breath – there he IS! An afternoon missive! Awwwwwwwright, mate! Good to see ya. Dentist, huh[?] Don’t get me started with the Doctors, Dentists, and Pharmacies, for the three of ‘em are about to put us under.

Doug I finally got around to answering your email! For one and all, you should know this upfront – I’m terrible at checking my email account(s) . . . just don’t think about doing it. So, for those who are trying to communicate with me, have patience, I’ll get a roundtuit![swg]

One of your recent jokes got a grin out of me . . . no “guffaw” mind you, but a grin! Don’t want to tell you which one, otherwise you’ll probably post it again (and again!)[swg]

Tom are you serious[?] ANOTHER series to begin tomorrow[?] Obviously I’ll be waitin’ for it – but, mate – you gotta ease up.[tup]

G’day Pete! An early afternoon for you too, huh[?] Yes, it was me who sent those “kind words” your way, and what did you do[?] “Credited” my “bookend!” A guy with an eye for detail – atomic energy![swg] Good one![tup]


A word on the April 12th gala (if there is to be one!). Why not have each of “us” send an email to one of the guys who “used to be” and see if we can’t get them to stop by on the 1st year anniversary[?] Of course this would mean COMMITMENT from “us” and you, Tom would have to provide the “list” to work from. I suggest that once the “list” gets posted, we begin in earnest. It would be sorta like those “matching” quiz questions we used to get in school. List “A” would be the “used to be’s” and List “B” the “us” guys. Kinda make it simple – first guy on list B communicates with the first guy on List A and so on . . . Just a thought. And of course, it’s no big strain finding the email address – just use the “member” feature (make sure you are logged in) and take it from there by sending the email through the forums.


“Hit me” again on the brew and I’ll just hang out a bit . . . . here’s a ten spot to take care of Pete ‘n “what’s his face!”[swg]


Until the next time!

Lars

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom and the gang,no Boris not the mentor track gang <sheesh>It's me day off after the three midnight shifts,so i will take a Keith's oh and Boris if I doze off just leave me be for a half hour or so thankx [tup][:O]


Doug and Tom hey again some nice info on AF and Lionel. I must admit I feel a bit out of the loop on both manufactures,unlike alot of the modelling world I jumped in at HO and stayed there.Still nice to see those nostalgic ophoto's aand reproductions of the old catalogue covers. I was absolutly shocked [:o] by the prices of those catalogues that I have seen at the last few local train shows.[tdn] Seems like it's not just the classic rolling stock and locomotives that fetch amazing prices,but I was seeing those very catalogues going for around fifty bucks. I shoulda kept my old walther's catalogues[:P] !

CM3 Hey nice info on some of the other old and in somecases gone kit manufacturer's. Now I see that the all nation kits you had (have) were metal and wood.Were all their products like that or was there an all brass lione from them as well[?] I seem to have read something in the hobby presses years back on all nation brass kits.

I've dabbled with the odd campbell kit none of their buildings but windows roofing material and cyclone vents etc, have made it into some kitbashing projects I did for a club I once belonged too. I seem to remember helping one fellow glue the nut / bolt / washer castings on a tressel he had scratched from northeastern lumber. This guy was quite the character ( bit anal actually ) he insisted upon superdetailing all the joints on the tressel even the ones burried in scenery with the NBW's. [:O] Something like 200 stes of NBW's were bought for that bridge.


Lars Hey nice to see you this aft as well. Good that your collection has seemingly come throuhg the "great flood" seemingly unscathed [^ Those old loco's will likely be fine,likely will need a cleaning and lubing but they were built tough.

Great idea on the email thing,it may just work at least on some of the A list.

Pete Tri-ang another manufacture that I know little off,what I have seen at shows looks quite nice, and detailed however ( maybe this is just the modern stuff ). I've never much liked the smoke equiped locomotives either,[tdn] I remember having an old bachman 0-4-0 with a smoke unit ( down the stack stuff as well ) What an awfull smell and the residue left behind after it would settle, talk about tarnishing the trackwork,on the upside it made for some "real" looking weathering though mom didn't like what it did to the rec room curtains [:O] The new fandangled sound equiped stuff doesn't do anything for me either,I don't know just too much IMHO.

Sad to here about those Midland shops [tdn][sigh] Price of progress i suppose,I imagine that if it's anything like here they will build a fine strip mall and some tract houses where the shops once stood.[tdn] It tis good that the roundhouse was saved,not many of those critters left in Ontario ( too many "insurance fires" ) One notable is the CPR John street roundhouse by Union station,it's still there , a rail musuem occupies about half the stalls, the other half contains steam whistle brewery [tup][tup][:D] Good to know about for May eh Tom [?]


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Here's a bit of new info from the trolleyboy barn.[;)][8D] It's kind of in keeping with today's modelling theme,consider this as 1 to 1 scale kitbashing. As alot of us know, the various railways over the years have done alot of "capitol rebuilding" of older locomotives to : A get more life out of usefull locomotives thus avoiding expensive repurchasing of new power. & B to get tax breaks on locomotives already purchased, by rebuilding and essentially remanufactureing they can claim the costs lioek they can on new purchases. One of the biggest locomotive rebuilders in a railway owned shop was of coarse IIlinois Central's massive Paducah shops rebuuilding'sof geeps and switchers and some early SD's


CLASSIC DIESELS # 12 THE ICG REBUILDS

IC's capitol rebuild program, carried out at the Paducah shops in Kentucky was a pioneer program.They were the first railroad to create and run such a program, and on such a massive scale.It encompassed early GP type locomotives ( some purchased from other railroads ). GP7's were rebuilt and redesignated GP8's , GP9's as rebuilt were refered to as GP10's This program began in early 1968 with the program ending in 1981 ! The first locomotives outshopped were GP8 7960 and GP10 8109. Thes two and GP10's 8009,8025,&8082 retained their high shorthoods.The first chopnosed unit GP8 7961 came ot of the shop in march of 1968 and all further rebuilds received the chopped shorthoods.

The rebuilding, saw complete strip downs to the frame sandblasting and repairs and a full repair and refurbishment of the 567 primemovers,new airfilters and electronic's etc. During 1968 there was a flirtation with uprating the horsepower of all the units to 2000hp but they weren't highly sucessfull so all wer rerated to 1600hp uop from the as built 1500 for the GP8's and 1850hp up from the 1750 asbuilt on the GP10 rebuilds. GP8's 7957,7964,7966,7977 and 7981 were the 2000hp GP8 exparament. GP10's 8004,8025,8072,8082,8158,and 8233 were the 2000hp GP10's all the 2000hp conversions were downgraded to 1850 hp in 1969 as it was found that the maintenance was easier than the turbocharged 2000hp format.

The ICG rebuuilding program added paper airfilters mounted in a distintive roof top box ( horsecaller ) and all the units recieved a liberated 4 stack exhaust manifolds ( both spotting features of the rebuilds ) The ICG also removed the dynamic braking and it's assosiated roof top blister omn units rebuilt for their own use,none of the IC's locomotives were bought with dynamic brakes but units purchased second hand were,this was again done for ease of maintenance and uniformity of spare parts,that and the units mostly held down secondary road jobs and yard and transfer work so it was felt that the dynamic braking was not required ( also cheaper less parts less maintenance )

The ICG was so pleased with it's shops work on their own engines that they decided that they would go into the business of upgrading locmotives for other railroads. IC set up a partnership with Persision National corp (PNC) in which they did joint venture rebuilding at both Paducah and at PNC's Mount Vernon ILL. shop.At the same time IC began to work with PNC to obtain secondhand GP7's and GP9's to rebuild and add to thier own roster of the total locomotives IC rostered 59 of the GP8's and 60 of the GP10's came from other railways.

It's difficult to track the parantage of many of the rebuilds as so many wer being worked on at the same time in both shops,parts and components and frames were redily swapped.An example would be ICG GP10 8270. It was outshopped in december of 1971, it was built from the frame of wrecked Boston and Maine GP9 1710,but it used the engine and components of a wrecked Suthern Pacific 3516. This is typical of this program,some locomotives may have parts from 3 or 4 other's plus new parts bought from EMD or GMD !

When IC and Gulf Mobile and Ohio merged to become ICG it had no effect on the rebuilding program. In fact ICG concidered using The GM&O's Iselin Ten shop as an extra shop, however it was decided to do the actual rebuilding just at Paducah.

Railroads that donated the raw materials for the program were as follows : DT&I ,Pittsburg & Lake Erie, Reading , Frisco , Quebec Northshore & Labrador , C&O , B & O , Boston & Maine , D&RGW , Clinchfield , Florida East Coast ,and Union Pacific. This influx of "new" powerv allowed the ICG to handle the traffic growth of the merged railroad and retire all the old Alco power they inherrited from the GM&O. after the program was terminated in 1981 the Paducah shop was sold to the Paducah and Louisville Railway, whose subsidiary VMV Enterprises operates it as a locomotive rebuilding shop still today.


Rob

[West Coast S]

Hello again Tom and the gang...I have returned, did you miss me? One week at my place in Nevada was just what I needed, Well, lots going on, the Feds offered me serious money for 16 months of service in Iraq.. I got that funny feeling again!!!

Ok I confess to not being up to speed, Too distracted with school and the wife threating a divorce, always good to return home to drama!!!

Rob...All Nation was the leader among early O scale Kits, to call them kits is to do a diservice to the industry, one still had to machine, tap-thread, fill poor castings and other primitive skills.
When done right by a skilled modeler they were a work of art however.

I have about twenty Ye' Ole Huff and Puff reefer kits to put together, these are of wood construction with Zimac details as done forty years ago, I do enjoy updating these with better castings to make them on par with more recent kit standards.

The All National equivelent in S was Rex, I own one such kit from the late 40's it's so primitive I'll keep it as a example of how much steam loco kits have improved. I also have several Rex dicast box cars, these are not too bad, need rivet detail and new door details but are acceptable to me, too bad they don't fit my era, so they likely will never see the light of day.


Ok Rob, how many Syddum models do you have hidden away? If i'd kept my collection they be worth more then my 401K. They were the premire importer of PE, SN and other trolley lines in the 60's and an example of early brass, never had one that ran worth a darn but they sure were accurate in the details.


How did I forget to order a round? Better late then never as they say!!!

The SP also undertook a rebuild program known as GRIP for general rebuild and improvement, this was a methodical process as only the cream of 1st gen units were included, all 247 SD7/9 and all 324 GP9's, GP20's,30's were so rebuilt, units deemed soon to be retired were excluded including the 700 plus F unit fleet, most Alco,FM and Baldwin freight units ands assorted odds and ends.

Overtime, second gen units such as SD40's,45's and Tunnel Motors were added to the program. The program commenced in 1959 and continued until 1983, over those ensuing years SP applied home designed air filtration packages that could be easily applied in the field, spark arrestors, improvements in maintaince procedures, cab improvements, turbocharger upgrades and hundreds of other upgrades, large and small. The Houston shops in turn, rebuilt hundreds of EMD switchers with new cab control features, light packages and a complete power plant, electrical upgrades. These were deemed too expensive overtime compared with new purchases (MP15 AC/DC) and the switcher conversion program was eventually abolished.

The primary shop was the vast Roseville facility which used assembly line techniques to convert twelve units a shift. As per SP practice all rebuilt units recieved new model desginations and new numbers.

Later, SP would shun rebuilding programs, Sending fleets of SD40's,45's and Tunnel Motors to independent rebuilders was the system policy towards the end, perhaps disposing of the Roseville property had something to do with this radical shift in policy.


Dave

[siberianmo]

Good Evening!

Another interesting day at the “Feast or Famine Bar ‘n Grill!”

For those who have noted, I didn’t make any morning comments, aside from those in the SUMMARY. Reason[?] Was waiting to see whether I’d be talking to myself! And for awhile, it appeared that way, eh[?][swg]

Doug provided us with some great stuff at about 5:30 AM and then it was a rather long drought until we heard from Pete around 1:45 PM. CM3 – Lars – Rob (twice) ‘n Dave filled out the mid to late afternoon. So, all in all, it wasn’t a bad day – just one of those unpredictable Wednesdays!

It was rather “odd” having our West Virginia connection, CM3, show up in the afternoon – we’re certainly not accustomed to that! However, it was worth the wait as another quality Post was provided.[tup][tup]

Appreciate the contributions from those of you in support of “Pike Perspective’s Day!” One thing I’d like to clarify is: this is NOT a “theme,” just something to jump on IF you are so inclined. No pressure – no urgency, just a day of the week set aside for those wanting to Post about model or toy railroading. So, for anyone out there feeling like you’ve fallen short – forget it![tup]

Doug I enjoyed that Lionel article – something to relate to from long ago. I think my first trainset arrived at Christmas of 1948 – but it could have been 1947 – either way, pretty close to the date of the article. Good stuff![tup]

Pete Always enjoy your sense of humor – and the “eye” for details! Atomic energy, indeed![swg] Thanx for the round![tup]

CM3 I never got “into” model building very much, so kits and the like were not part of my repertoire of childhood model railroading. I should really call it what it was – they weren’t models, they were toy trains, plain ‘n simple. Now, there were supporting items – buildings and the like – that required assembly. The original Plasticville “stuff” was about as hard as it got for me. And of course – Thanx for the round and more quarters for Coal Scuttle![swg]

Lars That’s an interesting approach you’ve come up with for our April 12th 1st year anniversary. Tell you what I’ll do – I’ll put together the “A” list and ship to you by E-mail – then you can take it from there if you wish.[tup]

Rob Two late afternoon Posts![wow] We need to get you into a more “civil” routine – ya know, work one day, off two, work another, off three. Think you could handle that[?][swg] All of the flyers and catalogs from my Lionel days are long gone. However, I have several file cabinet drawers full of HO “stuff” from Tyco, Athearn, and a “bunch” of retailers dating back to the mid-60s. No doubt that “someone” would love to have this “crap!” Isn’t that the way[?] I keep it, but for the life of me don’t know why![swg] And YES – it looks like a “natural” stop for us in May![tup] Trains ‘n beer – great combination, as long as we’re not “driving!”[swg]

Nice “Classic” by the by![tup]

Dave Running out of things to say, Mate – ya know, like [#welcome] back! Been there, done that many, many times. So, let’s just say, hope you can get through the SUMMARIES and “special events.” The pages keep rolling on . . . Always good to see ya, even if you failed to order something from the bar!!! A Tweetable offense – HOWEVER – in light of your past generosity at the bar, we’ll let it go – this time![swg] P.S. "Editing" your Post doesn't change a thing!!<grin>


Repeated:SOME PIX ARE NEEDED! If anyone would like some of their RR Pix Posted this Sunday, send them to me by Email attachments (no more than 4 at a time, please). Really running low on material for Sunday Photo Posting Day! THANX!

Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!


Later![tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please.

ROB I think TRI-ANG merged with Hornby who are still producing fine HO models.
In the late 50s/ early 60s Tri-ang brought out some N.American diesels of the F type which were popular in the UK. One car I had was a boxcar with a sponge underneath to which you added a solvent with the idea of it cleaning the track as the car was hauled round.

Thanks for the kit info and the Classic Diesel on the Re-builds a fascinating subject.
Brush in the UK has just completed a series of re-builds using the body work and frames of the 40 year old type 47s and refurbished GM power units. there are three sub-classes used by Frieghtliner Great Western and Virgin Trains, they are now designated class 57.

The part of locos changing identities in the works is often shown on preserved steam locos in the UK if the rods, valve gear axles etc.are examined they are often bear stamps of the various locos they have been used on.
In steam days it is said that the loco number was determined by the frames but with some classes of engines there were a spare set of frames,but even so some locos were thought to be better than others even after a major works overhaul.
As I say I find this an interesting subject [^].

Good to see you DAVE[tup] Great info on the kits and the SP Re-builds.

TOM. The bride had to go in to town this evening and while she was busy there I had a walk down to the Amtrak station on the goods line there was two frieght cars with BC RAIL on them. They looked familiar and they were on a photo on your B.C. Rail post on page 262 near the top. of course I had not got the camera with me [D)][|(] and the light was fading. I was wondering what goods they carried, these were unloaded like the car in the photo and the reason for them being so far from the home line.
Without Our Place I probably have though that BC Rail was a leasing company and not British Columbia[tup] PETE.

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon a round for pete and myself please and thank-you. yes I know you are happy to see me at night again ,<sheesh> Who hired these guys [?][swg]

Tom I will gladley, work two daysd out of seven so as to provide you some extra entertainment and interaction during the day. The only proviso would be that you cover half of my mortgage payments each month ! [:O][swg][:P]

You could probably sell all that crap / stuff treasure that you have saved,it's amazing as to who and what will but stuff at the RR fleamarkets !

I'm glad that you liked the latest classic,seems as though dave and Pete got a kick or two out of it as well.

Dave Hey nice to see you back , hopefully that stuff on the home front will simmer down for you. Loved the info on SP's rebuilding program [tup] BN , CN , CP and a few others also used to rebuild most of their solid first gen units as well. Of coarse now CN / CP and the rest tend to send their stuff outto the rebuilders as well. In the next couple of weeks I'm going to do a couple bits on some of the main rebuilders as well,keep an eye out for them. [tup]

Thanks for the info on All nation and the rest as well. to answer your question I have one Suydam barn kit ( haven't attempted it yet, bit above my skill level ) I've seen many a nice brass trolley car kit out and about in HO as well ( you would be amazed at how much has been and still is being made ) Most are beyond my price range however, I did manage to snag a double trucked Brill snowsweeper that MTS put out ten or so yeasr ago ( still paying for it on layaway ! )

Pete I seem to have the same luck picturewise as you lately, either no camera or too little light [sigh]. As the old saying goes it all comes to those who wait.

The locomotive re-building programs on both sides of the pond are tuff to get an accurate picture of. Espeacilly now as all the major rebuilders buy yup old worn out or wrecked units and remanufacture uses odd's and ends from god knows what anymore! Mind you the CN and CP rebuilds are basically all still with us as well. CN's Point Ste Cahrles shops rebuilt all their Gp9's to three subclasses of chopnosed units, Yard , Hump, and Light road use ( all power, control, and fuel rack settings ) other than the feww that have been wrecked beyond repair they are all still in use. CP as well did a major rebuilding of their GP9 fleets as well again chopnosed, they even rebuilt the best GP9's that were obtained from their merger of Soo Line ( that encompasses both Soo and Milwaukee road units ! )great info fer sure to attempt to digest. Like I sadi I am planning on doing a couple more Classic's on some of them as time permits.


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Okay since i'm on a bit of a roll ( I have the papers in front of me [:D] ) here's another, one to one scale locomotive kitbashing piece.

CLASSIC DIESELS # 13 C&NW REBUILD PROGRAM

The Chicago & North Western was alway's know as a frugal road, they would buy second hand and do as much in house rebuilding so as to keep the freight rolling and costs down. The C&NW started a rebuild program of their own at the Oelwein Iowa shops, the program was not intended as an upgrade program but as a life extension program ( low cost ) . rebuilt units retained their original GP7 or GP9 designation and power ratings. The distinction between rebuilt units and those just given a light overhaul and repainting was a matter of weather sheet metal work was included ( lowering of short hoods ).

Many of the GP7's were just given minor body works and paintjobs and therefore retained their as built high short hoods.( I have posted pictures of some of these as operated in the early 90's ) On all locomotives that went through this program, the dynamic brakes ( if originally installed ) were removed, some units recieved liberated exhaust manifolds. C&NW applied the "rebuilt' designation toonly the units it originally owned, not to those that were purchased second hand from Percision National. The purchased units did not count towards the capitol rebuild accounting so they recieved the least amount of work ( paint job , mechanical overhaul )In all C&NW "rebuilt" 73 GP7's and 52 GP9's which they counted as their capitol rebuild program.

The list below is from the C&NW records as of 1990,noted are the units that were bought second hand from PNC.

4100-4209 : ex rock Island GP7's
4252-4253 : C&NW GP7's exparamentally rebuilt with cummins HE15 engines
4279-4299 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4301-4309 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4310-4319 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4320-4326 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4327-4332 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4333 : rebuilt C&NW GP9
4334-4338 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4340-4358 : ex Quebec Northshore & Labrador GP7's
4359-4278 : ex Frisco GP7's
4379-4399 : ex Union Pacific GP7's
4431-4465 : all PNC units from Conrail,QN&SL,Frisco.C&O,and D&RGW GP7's
4466-4495 : rebuilt C&NW GP7's
4496-4499 : ex Union Pacific GP9's
4501-4504 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4505 : rebuilt C&NW GP7
4506-4513 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4514-4528 : ex QN&SL GP9's
4529-4549 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's
4550-4559 : ex Rock Island GP9's
4560-4562 : rebuilt C&NW GP9's

The gaps in the number series are lcomotives taken up by other rebuild programs alco's or other model EMD's

Rob

[siberianmo]

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Thursday already! Great way to begin the day is right here with a cuppa Joe – some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and if you’re really hungry, try our <light> or <traditional> breakfasts from the Menu Board![tup]


Daily Wisdom

Every jackass thinks he’s got horse sense.[swg]


”Our” Place” ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION is Wednesday, April 12th!


Info for the Day:

Little Known Operating Railroads #1 arrives at 10 AM today!

Railroads from Yesteryear – Great Northern Railway (GN) arrives next Tuesday!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 05:16:24 (282) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 05:27:13 (282) Pike Perspectives & joke

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 07:49:42 (282) Something Special Ad

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 10:35:04 (282) Pike Perspectives – 4 Pix

(5) pwolfe Pete Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 13:45:55 (283) Afternoon visit

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 14:08:56 (283) Rare PM visit & Pike Perspectives!

(7) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 14:44:21 (283) The Lars Report!

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 15:45:00 (283) Inclusive Daytime Post! etc.

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 16:37:18 (283) Classic Diesels #12 – ICG Rebuilds

(10) West Coast S Dave Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 17:54:29 (283) Comments

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 19:08:50 (283) Acknowledgments & Comments

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 22:19:52 (283) Inclusive Post!

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 22:38:55 (283) Inclusive Post!

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Mar 2006, 23:12:00 (283) Classic Diesels #13 – C&NW Rebuiilds



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features! Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 19th thru 25th: Midnight Run (1988) starring: Robert De Niro, Charles Grodin & Yaphet Kotto – and - The Greatest Show on Earth (1952) starring: Betty Hutton, Cornel Wilde & Charlton Heston. SHORT: Hello Pop (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[siberianmo]

[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


SOMETHING SPECIAL WILL BE POSTED TODAY!

Little Known Operating Railroads #1 will arrive on track #1 at 10 AM (Central) –

WATCH FOR IT!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the hoiuse and $ for the jukebox.

Heavy frost this a.m. and some talk of snow tonight through Saturday - ah well - we shall see..................

Rob - My thoughts on all Nation were answered by a previous post.

Here are a few more r/b programs to add to your list.

ATSF - CF7 program
C&O (Chessie) r/b GP30's - this was before they turned some of them into road slugs.
The SP and CNW were all admirably covered in recent posts, of course.

The IC had a long tradition of rebuilding steam locomtives, so it was not that much of a reach to think abt. doing the same thing for diesels.

Here's a little more: IC 2400-2459 were 4-8-2s blt between 1923 and 1926. The IC ordered 2400-2414, and 2440-2459 from Schenectady in 1923 and 1926, IC 2415-2439 were blt. by Lima in 1925.

They also blt some of their own (2500-2555) at Paducah from 1937-1942. These were a little bigger and had a lot more tractive force than the first round of 4-8-2s.

The big r/b program occurred between 1944 and 1946 when they cycled most of the earlier 4-8-2s through the shops. The cylinder size of these later engines (in general) remained the same , but the steam pressure was increased substantially and this bumped the tractive effort up considerably. The numbers of the previous engines were scattered all over the lot, but the r/b 4-8-2 fell into three main series: 2300-2307, 2600-2619, and 2530-2532.

RDG was another big rebuilder. I remember older folks telling me that the RDG would "jack up the bell" and shove a new locomotive underneath.

Dave - Thanks for kicking Suydam forward in what's left my feeble little mind. They did, as others have suggested, lots of interurban stuff including locomotives(IIRC), trolleys, and related buildings. Most of their material had a distinct midwest look to it, especially the structures.

That brings another manufacturer forward - Selley. They did all kinds of detail parts; we'd think them fairly crude today, but they were the only game in town. They were in Philadelphia and I remember getting their catalogs. B&W line drawings with tiny type - pored over them for hours.

Peter; Triang-Hornby did N scales maybe you remember Graham Farrish? At least I think that was the name. A friend of mine (fellow N scaler) had a fair amount of their product done up in LMS livery and some in GWR as well.

Herewith some more material re a midsize road. A few more fallen falgs here. I'm sure many of you recall seeing thiar cars. I have a couple of models in my collection; one I did myself which has the old ACY "spiderweb" herald - one of the classiest logos ever. I also have a car with the "Serving Ohio and the Nation" which Kadee produced yrs ago.

Akron, Canton and Youngstown Railroad.
"Serving Ohio and the Nation."

Connections
Akron and Barberton Belt R.R. - East Akron, Fairlawn, OH
Baltimore and Ohio - Akron, Columbus Grive, Medina, Plymouth, OH
Chesapeake and Ohio - Carey, OH
Detroit, Toledo & Ironton - Columbus Grove
Erie-Lackawanna - Akron
Norfolk and Western - Bluffton, Chatfield, Delphos, OH
NYC (CCC&St L.) - Carey, New London, OH
NYC (OC) - Arlington, Sycamore, OH
PRR - Akron, Delphos, New Washington, OH
Wheeling and Lake Erie - Mogadore, Spencer, OH

I don't know if I'll be online tomorrow - depends on the schedule.

work safe

[siberianmo]

Little Known Operating Railroads #1

The White Pass & Yukon Route Railway (WPY)



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


Reporting marks: WPY

Locale: Alaska, northern British Columbia, Yukon Territory

Dates of operation: 1898–1982, 1988 – present

Track gauge: 3 ft (914 mm)

Headquarters: Skagway, Alaska

The White Pass and Yukon Route (WP&Y, WP&YR) (AAR reporting mark WPY) is a narrow gauge railroad linking the port of Skagway, Alaska with Whitehorse, the capital of Canada's Yukon Territory. An isolated system, it has no connection to any other railroad. The railroad is operated by the Pacific and Arctic Railway and Navigation Company (in Alaska), the British Columbia Yukon Railway Company (in British Columbia) and the British Yukon Railway Company, originally known as the British Yukon Mining, Trading and Transportation Company (in Yukon Territory), which use the trade name White Pass and Yukon Route.

Construction

The line was born of the Klondike Gold Rush of 1897. The most popular route taken by prospectors to the gold fields in Dawson City was a treacherous route from the nearest port in Skagway or Dyea, Alaska across the mountains to the Canadian border at the summit of the Chilkoot Pass or the White Pass. There, the prospectors would not be allowed across by the Canadian authorities unless they had a full ton of supplies with them. There was a need for a better transportation scheme than the pack horses used over the White Pass or people's backs over the Chilkoot Pass. This need generated numerous railroad schemes. In 1897, the Canadian government received 32 proposals for Yukon railroads, most of which were never realized.

In 1897, three separate companies were organized to build a rail link from Skagway to Fort Selkirk, Yukon, 325 miles (525 km) away. Largely financed by British investors, a railroad was soon under construction. A 3 foot (914 mm) gauge was chosen; the narrower roadbed required by a narrow gauge railroad made for big cost savings when that roadbed had to be carved and blasted out of the mountain rock. Even so, 450 tons of explosives were used to reach White Pass summit. The narrow gauge also allowed for a tighter radius to be used on curves, making the task easier by allowing the railroad to follow the landscape more, rather than having to be blasted through it.

Construction started in May 1898. On July 21, 1898, an excursion train hauled passengers for four miles (6 km) out of Skagway, the first train to operate in Alaska. On July 30, 1898, the charter rights and concessions of the three companies were acquired by the White Pass & Yukon Railway Company Limited, a new company organized in London. Construction reached the 2,885-foot summit of White Pass, 20 miles (30 km) away from Skagway, by mid-February 1899. The railway reached Bennett, British Columbia on July 6, 1899. In the summer of 1899, construction started north from Carcross to Whitehorse, 110 miles (178 km) north of Skagway. The construction crews working from Bennett along a difficult lakeshore reached Carcross the next year, and the last spike was driven on July 29, 1900, with service starting on August 1, 1900. However, by then, much of the Gold Rush fever had died down.


"Drumhead" logos such as this often adorned the ends of observation cars on the WP&Y.

Operations before World War II

However, serious professional mining was taking its place; not so much for gold as for other metals such as copper, silver and lead. The closest port was Skagway, the only route there was via the White Pass & Yukon Route's river boats and railroad.

While ores and concentrates formed the bulk of the traffic, the railroad also carried passenger traffic, and other freight. There was, for a long time, no easier way into the Yukon Territory, and no other way into or out of Skagway except by sea.

Financing and route was in place to extend the rails from Whitehorse to Carmacks, but there was chaos in the river transportation service, resulting in a bottleneck. The White Pass instead used the money to purchase most of the riverboats, providing a steady and reliable transportation system between Whitehorse and Dawson City.

While the WP&YR never built between Whitehorse and Fort Selkirk, some minor expansion of the railway occurred after 1900. In 1901, the Taku Tram, a 2½-mile (4 km) portage railroad was built at Taku City, British Columbia, which was operated until 1951. It carried passengers and freight between the S.S. Tutshi operating on Tagish Lake and the M.V. Tarahne operating across Atlin Lake to Atlin, British Columbia. (While the Tutshi was destroyed by a suspicious fire around 1990, the Tarahne was restored and hosts special dinners including murder mysteries. Lifeboats built for the Tutshi's restoration were donated to the Tarahne.) The Taku Tram could not even turn around, and simply backed up on its westbound run. The locomotive used, the Duchess, is now in Carcross.

In 1910, the WP&YR operated a branch line to Pueblo, a mining area near Whitehorse. This branch line was abandoned in 1918; a haul-road follows that course today but is mostly barricaded; a Whitehorse Star editorial in the 1980s noted that this route would be an ideal alignment if the Alaska Highway should ever require a bypass reroute around Whitehorse.

While all other railroads in the Yukon (such as the Klondike Mines Railroad at Dawson City) had been abandoned by 1914, the WP&YR continued to operate.

During the Great Depression, traffic was sparse on the WP&YR, and for a time trains operated as infrequently as once a week.

World War II

With the outbreak of World War II, things took a distinct turn for the busier. Alaska became of strategic importance for the United States; there was much worry that the Japanese might invade it, as the nearest part of the United States to Japan. The US Army took control, bringing some newly built and many used steam locomotives (such as the USATC S118 Class) from closed US narrow gauge lines to the railroad.

There are two persistent myths that show up in almost every book or article which mentions the role of the White Pass & Yukon Route in the building of the Alcan Highway during the Second World War. The myths concern the eleven new 2-8-2 MacArthur type locomotives that the US Army brought to the WP&YR in 1943. Myth #1 is that they were converted from meter gauge to 3 foot gauge by the WP&YR shops in Skagway Alaska. Myth #2 is that they were built for Iran and diverted to the WP&YR. Neither myth is true.

These locomotives, designated USA 190 to USA 200, were constructed by Baldwin Locomotive Works as 36" gauge and shipped fully assembled. No modification was needed. The MacArthur was designed by the American Locomotive Company for 42" gauge and the smaller gauges were cleverly accommodated with various sized spacers in strategic locations and different length axles. In total, nearly 800 MacArthurs were produced by ALCO, Baldwin, and a few other manufacturers.

The reason USA 190-200 were never destined for "Iran" as it's often mistakenly stated in books relating WP&YR history, is that Iran's government railway was standard gauge. Also, because of scarce water and extensive tunnels, Iran was the first case where the Army primarily used diesel locomotives. USATC narrow gauge locomotives were never destined for Iran.

The first locomotives of the MacArthur design that Baldwin Locomotive Works built were USA 190-200 for the WP&YR, which makes them somewhat unique. This initial 1942 sales order to Baldwin for 60 MacArthur meter gauge [39 3/8"] locomotives was for India's extensive meter gauge railway system. The first eleven were diverted to the WP&YR as 36", the next 15 went to India as meter gauge, another 20 went to Queensland Ry as 42", and the remaining 14 were meter gauge for India where the order was destined before the Alaskan and Australian diversions. Therefore if the WP&YR MacArthurs were diverted from anywhere it would have been India, not Iran.

The White Pass saw record volumes of traffic as it served as a vital supply route for construction materials for the new Alaska Highway and other projects. As many as 17 trains were operated daily. In one record period of 24 hours, 37 trains rolled into Whitehorse.

1946-1982

The White Pass steam locomotive is shown here between Bennett, British Columbia and Skagway (GNU Free Documentation)

In 1951, the White Pass and Yukon Corporation Ltd., a new holding company, was incorporated to acquire the three railway companies comprising the WP&YR from the White Pass and Yukon Company, Ltd., which was in liquidation. The railway was financially restructured. While most other narrow gauge systems in North America were closing around this time, the WP&YR remained open.

The railroad dieselised in the mid to late 1950s, one of the few North American narrow gauge railroads to do so. The railroad bought shovelnose diesels from General Electric, and later road-switchers from Alco and Montreal Locomotive Works, as well as a few small switchers.

The railroad was an early pioneer of intermodal freight traffic, commonly called container; advertising of the time referred to it as the Container Route. With custom built container ships, railroad cars and truck trailers, the White Pass showed the benefits of intermodal transportation early - a single container, loaded in the Yukon territory, could be transported anywhere in the world without needing to be opened and reloaded, whether transported by road, rail, or sea. The WP&YR owned the world's first container ship (the Clifford J. Rogers, built in 1955), and in 1956 introduced containers.

The Faro lead-zinc mine opened in 1969. The railway was upgraded with seven new 1200 horsepower (890 kW) locomotives from the American Locomotive Company (Alco), new freight cars, ore buckets, a "straddle carrier" at Whitehorse to transfer from the railway's new fleet of trucks, a new ore dock at Skagway, and assorted work on the rail line to improve alignment. In the fall of 1969, a new tunnel and bridge that bypassed Dead Horse Gulch were built to replace the tall steel cantilever bridge that could not carry the heavier trains. This enormous investment made the company dependent on continued ore traffic to earn the revenue, and left the railway vulnerable to loss of that ore-carrying business.

As well, passenger traffic on the WP&YR was increasing as cruise ships started to visit Alaska's Inner Passage. There was no road from Skagway to Whitehorse until 1978. Even once the road was built, the White Pass still survived on the ore traffic from the mines.

During this time, the green-yellow engine colour scheme, with a thunderbird on the front, was replaced with blue, patterned with black and white. The green-yellow scheme was restored in the early 1990s, along with the thunderbird. As of 2005, however, one engine still has the blue colour scheme. The steam engines, however, remain basic black.

In 1982, however, metal prices plunged, and that had a devastating effect on the mines who were the White Pass & Yukon Route's main customers. Many, including the Faro lead-zinc mine, closed down, and with that traffic gone, the White Pass was doomed as a commercial railroad. Hopeful of a reopening, the railway ran at a significant loss for several months, carrying only passengers. However, the railway closed down on October 7, 1982.

Some of the road's Alco diesels were sold to a railroad in Colombia, and the newer Alco diesels on order with Alco's Canadian licensee MLW (Montreal Locomotive Works) were sold to US Gypsum in Plaster City, California. Only one of these modern narrow gauge diesels, the last narrow gauge diesel locomotives built for a North American customer, was delivered to the White Pass. The five diesels sold to Columbia were not used as they were too heavy, and were re-acquired in 1999.

Revival, 1988-present


White Pass steam locomotive rounds a curve, with dramatic scenery reflected in the windows. (GNU Free Documentation)

The shutdown, however, was not for long. Tourism to Alaska began to increase, with many cruise ships stopping at Skagway. The dramatic scenery of the White Pass' route sounded like a great tourist draw; and the rails of the White Pass & Yukon Route were laid right down to the docks, even along them, for the former freight and cruise ship traffic. Cruise operators, remembering the attraction of the little mountain climbing trains to their passengers, pushed for a re-opening of the line as a heritage railway. The White Pass was and is perfectly positioned to sell a railroad ride through the mountains to cruise ship tourists; they don't even have to walk far.

The White Pass Route was reopened between Skagway and White Pass in 1988 purely for tourist passenger traffic. The White Pass Route also bid on the ore-haul from the newly reopened Faro mine, but its price was considerably higher than road haulage over the Klondike Highway.

The railway still uses vintage parlor cars, the oldest built in 1883 and predating WP&YR by 15 years, and eight new cars built in 2005 follow the same 19th century design. At least three cars have wheelchair lifts.

A work train actually reached Whitehorse in late August, 1988, its intent being to haul two locomotives, parked in Whitehorse for six years, to Skagway to be overhauled and used on the tourist trains. While in Whitehorse for approximately one week, it hauled the parked rolling stock - flatcars, tankers and a caboose - out of the downtown area's sidings, and the following year, they were hauled further south, many eventually sold. Most of the tracks in downtown Whitehorse have now been torn up, and the line's terminus is six city blocks south of the old train depot at First Avenue and Main Street. A single new track along the waterfront enables the operation, by a local historical society, of a tram for tourist purposes.

After customs issues were resolved, the WP&YR main line reopened to Fraser in 1989, and Bennett in 1992. A train reached Carcross in 1997 to participate in the Ton of Gold centennial celebration. A special run was made to Whitehorse on October 10, 1997, and there are plans to eventually re-open the entire line to Whitehorse. So far, the tracks are only certified to Bennett by the Canadian Transportation Agency.

WP&YR acquired some rolling stock from CN's Newfoundland operations, which shut down in November, 1988; the acquisition definitely included gravel cars, still painted in CN orange; it is uncertain if, as reported in 1989, some passenger cars such as dining cars were also acquired; since WP&YR does not use dining cars, they would have been converted to parlor cars in vintage design.

Most trains are hauled by the line's diesel locomotives, attractively painted in green (lower) and yellow (upper), but one of the line's original steam locomotives is still in operation too, #73, a 2-8-2 Mikado-type locomotive. Another steam locomotive was on loan, but has now been returned. Former WP&Y 69, a 2-8-0 has been acquired, is being rebuilt and is expected to be in use in 2005.

Also operational, a few times a year, is an original steam-powered rotary snowplow, an essential device in the line's commercial service days. While it is not needed as the tourist season is only in the summer months, it is a spectacle in operation, though, and the White Pass runs the steam plow for railfan groups once or twice a winter, pushed by two diesel locomotives (in 2000 only, it was pushed by two steam locomotives, #73 and the loan locomotive).

The centennial of the Golden Spike at Carcross was reenacted on July 29, 2000, complete with two steam engines meeting nose-to-nose, and a gold-coated steel spike being driven by a descendant of WP&YR contractor Michael Heney.

One organization chartered a steam-pulled train from Carcross to Fraser, with a stopover at Bennett, on Friday, June 24, 2005. When expected participants seemed unlikely to arrive in the planned numbers, surplus seats were sold to the public, 120 USD or 156 CAD, with bus return to Carcross from Fraser. This represents the first paid passenger trips out of Carcross since 1982.

References

• Lavallée, Omer (1972). Narrow Gauge Railways of Canada, pages 56–63,107–111, Montreal: Railfare Enterprises Limited. ISBN 0-919130-21-6.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


The following is from the White Pass & Yukon Route Railway website:



Map of the White Pass & Yukon Route Railway



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical display at Skagway Depot



WPY historical display at Skagway Depot



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix



WPY historical Pix


Enjoy![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]



Waving flags credit: www.3DFlags.com

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

Just finished the WP&Y article it was great. It's on my list of things to do.

Just took a short break from the offioce will check in later.

TTFN Al

[BudKarr]

Good Afternoon Captain Tom and all assembled!


Let me be the second to compliment you on a fine job with your new series![tup] That is a rail line that I never knew existed. But for me, there are hundreds on this continent that I never heard of.[swg] Good show![tup]

I am a bit short on time, so I must get right to the contribution that my bride to be put together. She is really “into” the research and it helps quite a bit to have someone not only able, but willing to help.

Oh, before I fall victim to the terrible tweets! let me order a Southern Comfort on the rocks, a half sandwich of roast beef, swiss, mayo, lettuce & tomato. Better change that drink to a large mug of Keiths![swg]

While it may appear that the numbers of people providing information has fallen off, I assure you that the quality and volume has not! I devoted a considerable amount of my morning in playing catch up and must say that it was all good reading.[tup] Sir Barndad – Sir Rob – Sir Coalminer – Sir passengerfan – Sir Lars – and of course, Captain Tom kept and keep everything flowing quite well. I thoroughly enjoyed the “theme” on Tuesday, another good selection![tup] And the participation was surprising too! The hobby submissions are keeping the idea that Sir Ted came up with “alive.” I too have exhausted my resources, and will have to sit out the next one or three.

Regarding that idea of Lars’ for the first year anniversary contact list, count me in. Although at this moment, I am not certain we will be here on the 12th of next month. Nevertheless, I will do my part to help get a fallen member back on board, if only for the day. Good idea.[tup]

I must come down on the ‘side’ of Lars when it comes to his observations of the annoyances on the forums and from time to time on this thread. But, rather than beat a dead horse, I will just let it go at that.

We will be departing tomorrow for another trip south. This time I expect we will be gone for at least 4 days. So let these photos of mine “count” for Sunday![swg]


These photos most probably will not enlarge and will in all likelihood be like thumbnails. They were obtained from a tourism site with no prohibitions regarding their use.

CLICK this one!












A round on me! Hope you all have an enjoyable weekend!

BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada’s high country!

[LoveDomes]

G’day Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!

What a great choice for the first in your new series – The White Pass & Yukon Route![yeah] This narrow gauge railroad is most probably a little known operating road, but everyone who has traveled it comes back with accolades regarding the experience. Definitely something on my “list” of things to do! Nice work, Tom and very much appreciated. A 5-[tup] Salute to you Sir! [tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

Check out these pix from a site I found with NO restrictions regarding their use [wow]!!


WPY diner Yukon River (Bruce Pryor collection)





WPY coach Lake Black (1997) (Bruce Pryor collection)




WPY coach Lake Black w/cupola (Bruce Pryor collection)





WPY coach Lake Linderman (1997) (Bruce Pryor collection)



Ok, I’ll take one of those great hero sandwiches – ham, swiss, mustard & buttAH, 2 large pickles from the barrel and a pitcher of SchaefAH beer – got a thirst (again!). Here’s a ten spot for a round, whenever the assembled crew shows up.

Greetings to all, especially my “bookend” BK who I noted “beat me in” once again![swg]

Tom Got your email and will see what I can come up with. I’ll send it to you B4 posting, just to make sure no wires get crossed.


Enjoy the pix![tup]

Until the next time!

Lars

[siberianmo]

G'day!

I see we've had a few customers with something to say . . . I'll get to the acknowledgments a bit later on.[tup] Good to see y'all![swg]

That map of the White Pass & Yukon Route (WPY) that I Posted didn't enlarge and I'm surprised. So here's a URL to click on, really worth the "view"

http://www.wpyr.com/multimedia/routemap.html

Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

May me look for this but it is all the onformation I have on the WP&Y just thought I would toss it in. See I do look for passenger information besides just streamlined cars.

WHITE PASS
&
YUKON
Parlor Cars
by Al

The WP&Y a 3' narrow gauge railway operating out of Skagway Alaska never owned a lightweight streamlined Parlor Car or any other passenger car for that matter. But the road had one U.S. and one Canadian Manufacturer build nine 16 seat Parlor cars to a turn of the century design that are included in this book simply because I liked them.
As this is written all nine have been rebuilt to coaches but while they were Parlor cars they were among some of the classiest ever built.

16 REVENUE SEAT NARROW GAUGE PARLOR CAR Pacific Car & Foundry May 1938 (Built for WP&Y Railway)

256 LAKE LaBARGE

16 REVENUE SEAT NARROW GAUGE PARLOR CARS Coast Steel Fabricators Limited April - May 1968 (Built for the WP&Y)

274 LAKE PRIMROSE

276 LAKE BIG SALMON

278 LAKE FAIRWEATHER

280 LAKE DEASE

16 REVENUE SEAT NARROW GAUGE PARLOR CARS Coast Steel Fabricators Limited April - May 1976 (Built for the WP&Y)

282 LAKE KLUKSHA

284 LAKE TAKAHINI

286 LAKE KUSAWA

288 LAKE McCLINTOCK

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

Good Afternoon!

Not a bad day at the “Feast or Famine Bar ‘n Grill” with some surprises in the form of Posts supportive o my new series, Little Known Operating Railroads. Really didn’t expect to see anything more than some comments. Many THANX to those of you who took the time and made the effort to add to the idea![tup][tup][tup]

Kinda strange starting off a day without having barndad Doug follow my SUMMARY. Don’t miss the joke, but miss the reading exercise![swg] Or do I have that backwards[?]

The morning did get into gear once coalminer3 CM3 arrived with his round for the house, quarters for Herr Wurlitzer’s Coal Scuttle and entertaining Post full of good cheer and good stuff![tup][tup][tup] Sorry that we won’t be seeing you ‘til Monday.[tdn]

Many THANX to BK ‘n Lars our “bookends”for the Pix! So what if some don’t enlarge, they surely added quite a bit to the flavor of it all. Good job guys![tup][tup][tup] You will also be missed, BK but the nice thing is we know you’ll come back! Have a safe and enjoyable trip. I agree with you both about the WPY it must be one terrific trip and experience. I have a friend who made the round trip 2 years ago and he still raves about it. The guy isn’t a “train nut” at all, and in fact when I heard that he and his wife were taking a cruise to Alaska and staying a couple of weeks on their own, I “pushed” them into the trip to Fairbanks and the WPY. Now he’s always looking for a rail adventure.

Appreciate the info from 20 Fingers Al – and quite frankly it didn’t surprise me at all that you’d have stuff on the narrow gauge White Pass & Yukon Route. Why not[?] There’s not a passenger train in North America that has or had a chance of escaping your clutches![swg]

I should also make mention of trolleyboy Rob’s late nite Posts – those were and are appreciated as well! Problem is that as more info “piles up” and the page gets more full, well – outta sight, outta mind! Sorry.[swg] By the by, got your Email and responded to same. Thanx!

Last call:SOME PIX ARE NEEDED! If anyone would like some of their RR Pix Posted this Sunday, send them to me by Email attachments (no more than 4 at a time, please). Really running low on material for Sunday Photo Posting Day! THANX!

Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)!


Later![tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon,A good belt of CR and some of the haddock if you please sir.

Tom first off I recieved your email and have responded back to you sir.[tup] Nice pick for the first obscure road,nice to see that the bookends were able to contribute some fine pictures to the story as well. I didn't find any relevant stuff to add beyond what you and the boys contributed,save one. Anyone interested I do believe that pentrex made a trip north a did some filming on the Whitepass. The new widecab narrow guage alco's that were sold to US Gysum also made it onto one of pentrex's Those amazing alco's videos as well. Volume three I believe.


Lars nice photo's sir[tup] The wooden cars remind me off some of the turn of the century interurban cars built in Canada and the US. Of coarse it was the same decades that they were built. It is one of those destinations that I do want to get too one of these years,the territories and NFLD are the only parts of Canada I have not yet visited. I figure that i have some tome though.[:D][swg]

BK Good to see you back sir ![tup] Thanks for the mention of reading my latest attempts at information,it's good to know that things are at least read.Thanks for your latest photographic contributions as well. Seems like your intended and yourself may bewriting a railroad book soon [;)]. IOt's good to have a mate that will let and help you indulge,I'm luckey in that my wife is very interested in trains and traction as well. she hasn't started researching or proofreading my contributions yet though.[swg] Have a safe journey, we will keep things a humming here for Tom. and I shall amke sure that Boris keeps your stool polished as well.

CM3 Thanks for the additional rebuilder info. As I've been reading along in my various books etc. I have noticed that a great deal of railroads indulged in steam rebuilding as well. CP rebuilt several articulated locomotives that were less than satisfactory performers inti rather large 0-10-0 transfer locomotives. They also built several hundred ten wheelers and a beleive some ligth pacigics in their Angus shops, some as late as the early to mid 40's.I think that IC / ICG will win the prize as most prolific remanufacter,not only did they rebuild geeps and steam they also rebuilt sd24's and many yard switchers. Union pacific had quite the switcher rebuilding program going as well their SW10's built from all old SW7's 9's TR4's etc.

You can still by the Suydam kits ( some anyway ) They are manufactured under Alpine Scale Models name now. from what I understood alot of their prototype was Pacific Electric, and some of the Chicago area Interurban lines. Certainly a great deal of their brass imports were of those companies.

Al See you can do stuff other than streamliners,[swg] good info as always, don't be such a stranger !


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Hello Time for another update[^]

THE CLASSIC INDEX VER 6


CLASSIC JUICE

#1 The London and Port Stanley RY L&PS pg# 116
#2 The Niagara St Catharines & Toronto RY NS&T pg# 123
#3 The Montreal and Southern Counties MS&C pg# 131
#4 The Brantford & Hamilton RY B&H pg# 134
#5 The Berlin and Waterloo Street Railway B&WSR pg# 142
#6 The Nearside Car pg# 146
#7 The Peter Witt Story pg# 148
#8 The PCC Car pg# 157
#9 The Nippissing Central N&C RY pg# 140
#10 The Safety Car pg# 162
#11 CNR Electric Lines pg# 163
#12 The Toronto Civic Railway TCR pg# 180
#13 The TCR Cars pg # 180
#14 The Toronto Suburban Railway TSR pg# 211
#15 Canadian Streetcar and Electric Locomotive Builders pg# 212
#16 US Streetcar and Electric Locomotive Builders ( that built for Canada ) pg# 217
#17 The Grand River Railway GRR pg# 223
#18 The Lake Erie and Northern Railway LE&N pg# 224
#19 The British Columbia Electric Railway BCER pg# 225
#20 Incline Railways of Hamilton pg# 242
#21 Pre History of the TTC pt1 pg#248
#22 Pre History of the TTC pt2 pg#249
#23 Pre History of the TTC pt3 pg#250



CLASSIC STEAM * NEW NAME

#1 Huntsville Sub pg# 159
#2 Alliston Sub pg# 163
#3 Strathroy sub pg# 165
#4 Niagara Falls Passenger Trains pg# 170
#5 Passenger Trains on Brampton & Thorndale Subs pg # 170
#6 The " Roustabout " pg# 176
#7 Passenger trains to Palmerston pg# 182
#8 Southern On railmap pg# 183
#9 Speacial Frieghts on The Niagara Frontier pg# 191
#10 Speacial Freights on The Niagara Frontier Pt 2 pg# 191
#11 Passenger Train Profiles PT 1 pg# 198
#12 Passenger Train Profiles PT 2 pg# 198
#13 The Formation of The CNR pg# 218
#14 The CSR's ST Clair Branch pg# 226
#15 History of CNR Passenger Service pg# 250
#16 Southern RY Steam Program pg# 276 *new
#17 The Stratford & Huron RY pg# 279 *new
#18 The Toronto Grey & Bruce RY pg# 281 *new



CLASSIC CANADIAN ADS

#1 TH&B Doodlebug Ad for EMC pg# 153
#2 National Geographic Ad for CNR Circa 1929 pg# 209
#3 CNR Hotels Ad Circa 1932 pg# 209
#4 The Empire Express pg# 251
#5 CN Super Continental Ad pg# 270 *new
#6 CNR / GTR 1941 System Ad pg# 270 *new


CLASSIC DIESEL BARN

#1 Southern Pacific Roster pg#254
#2 NA Diesel Manufacturer's Pt 1pg # 254
#3 NA Diesel Manufacturer's Pt 2pg # 256
#4 NA Diesel Manufacturer's Pt 3pg # 259
#5 Northern Pacific in 1960 pg # 260
#6 BC Rail Tumbler Division pg # 262
#7 BC Rail Locomotive Roster c1993 pg # 262
#8 The CF7 Story pg # 263
#9 Seaboard Railroad Freight Ops pg # 268
#10 HBRY Port of Churchill pg# 278 *new
#11 D&RGW Locomotive Roster pg# 282 *new
#12 ICG GEEP Rebuilding pg# 283 *new
#13 C&NW GEEP Rebuilding pg# 283 *new
#14 Precision National ( locomotive rebuildres PT 1 ) pg# 284 *new

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again.Leon if you could be so good as to pour a round of Keith's I'll be at this next bit of business.

CLASSIC DIESELS #14 LOCOMOTIVE REBUILDERS PT 1 PNC

Precision National Corporation or PNC

As I mentioned before , many railways undertook, extensive capitol rebuild programs of older diesel power, for tax write off purposes and to rebuild usefull older locomotives, ther by extending their operational lives.However some railways did not possess the shop facilities or manpower to do this so several companies have formed to do this for them. Precision National was one such, originally they were a locomotive reseller scrapper, they then formed a partnership with IC / ICG to help them find locomotives for rebuilding. Today PNC goes it alone as the partnership no longer exists and IC ghad sold the Paducah shops to another rebuilder. Today PNC does their rebuilding out of their own shop facility in Mount Vernon, ILL. thought at a much reduced level from the heyday of their involvement with IC in the 70's .


Precision Engineering Company began operation in 1931 as a rebuilder of diesel crankshafts. In 1960 it aquired Ford's Auto-Lite plant in Mount Vernon, and created a locomotive division. They became a broker,rebuilder,and shortterm lessor of used locomotives. In 1969 it changed it's name to Precision National Corp, and in 1971 they entered a partnership with Illinois Cental for rebuilding locomotives at IC's Paducah shops.

For minor reconditioning work PNC continued to use it's own Mt Vernon facility.For example work on 40 Conrail units in 1979 was split 30 to Paducah and 10 to Mt Vernon.The rebuilds have all been nicknamed Paducah's no matter which facility turned them out.

PNC's work at Paducah ended in 1979 after they turned out a last order of GP11's for The Clinchfield.PNC still leeases and brokers used loco's today,however they don't underytake large rebuilding orders anymore. small batches and refurbishmnets and maintenance on their leas fleet are the norm nowaday's.


Rob

[siberianmo]

(courtesy: www.trainweb.org)

We open at 6 AM (all time zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Friday [yeah]! Great way to begin the day is right here with a cuppa Joe – some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and if you’re really hungry, try our <light> or <traditional> breakfasts from the Menu Board![tup]


Daily Wisdom

A man can learn a heap of things if he keeps his ears washed[swg]


”Our” Place” ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION is Wednesday, April 12th!


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear – Great Northern Railway (GN) arrives next Tuesday!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Pizza Nite & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 05:18:17 (283) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 07:54:35 (283) Something Special – Ad

(3) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 08:51:10 (283) Inclusive Post, etc.

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 10:00:01 (283) Little Known Operating RRs #1 – WPY

(5) passengerfan Al Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 11:27:47 (283) Comments

(6) BudKarr BK Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 13:20:45 (283) The BK Report & 4 pix!

(7) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 14:35:15 (283) The Lars Report & 4 Pix!

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 14:47:30 (283) WPY URL (map)

(9) passengerfan Al Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 15:13:48 (283) WPY info

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 16:20:17 (283) Acknowledgments & Comments

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 23 Mar 2006, 23:42:29 (284) Inclusive Post!

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 00:02:13 (284) Classic Index, ver 6

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 24 Mar 2006, 00:23:54 (284) Classic Diesels #14 – Loco Rebuilders



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre

NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 19th thru 25th: Midnight Run (1988) starring: Robert De Niro, Charles Grodin & Yaphet Kotto – and - The Greatest Show on Earth (1952) starring: Betty Hutton, Cornel Wilde & Charlton Heston. SHORT: Hello Pop (1933).

COMING ATTRACTIONS

. . . Sunday, March 26th thru April 1st:Major League (1989) starring Tom Beringer, Charlie Sheen & Corbin Bernson – and – Bull Durham (1988) starring: Kevin Costner, Susan Sarandon & Tim Robbins. SHORT: Plane Nuts (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



THINK April 12th –
The 1st year Anniversary of ”Our” Place!

[BudKarr]

Good Morning Captain Tom and all assembled!

I have found myself some free time this early morning and thought perhaps my contribution for an ENCORE! would be appropriate since we will be departing shortly for our trip.

First though, barkeep set 'em up and early risers have a drink on me![tup]

Here is one of my earlier attempts (from page 146 on Oct 25th) which today I will call an ENCORE!

A Man Named Pullman

There are volumes that have been written about George Mortimer Pullman (1831-1897) and the long lasting contributions his innovativeness of the railroad car and management of them made to North American railroading. Some highlights are in order:

(1) Born into a Brockton, NY family of farmers and mechanics in 1831, it is appropriate to state that he was NOT the inventor of the sleeping car. That distinction, according to history, goes to the Cumberland Valley Railroad, who began operation of those types of cars several years before Pullman’s birth.

(2) His first venture into the adult world was as a cabinet maker, turned contractor. The latter brought him to Chicago where he met a man named Benjamin Field, who would become a long time partner and associate in the rail car management, design and operation business.

(3) The first railroad to adopt the Pullman-Field approach to sleeping cars was the Chicago, Alton & St. Louis Railroad in 1859 when they accepted the offer to have two of their coaches remodeled into sleepers.

(4) In 1865, the largest and most costly car of the day was built by Pullman himself, appropriately named the Pioneer for the westward expansion of the railroads to the Pacific Coast. This car had the distinction of costing $20 thousand, about 5 times the cost of a coach, had 16 wheels, and 12 sections of sleeper units. IT was longer, wider and higher than the standard coaches of the day. In fact the Pioneer was used in President Lincoln’s funeral consist and required the stations along the way to make structural changes to their platforms in order to accommodate the passing train! The Pioneer was credited with having the first fold down berths, and while perhaps not the most luxurious in design and accommodations, was at least as well appointed.

(5) By the end of 1866, every major railroad serving Chicago signed on the Pullman-Field sleeping car operation. Field decided that Pullman was better off on his own, and stepped aside.

(6) Early in the 1870s, 800 of Pullman’s cars operated over 30,00 miles of track in an association between his company and the ACL, CRI&P, DL&W, MP, NP, AT&SF and SP. It was to be that Pullman’s “Empire” would buy up the contracts of the association railroads, thereby providing him with the sole access desired.

(7) Upon his untimely death in 1897, the heirs of the family took over and moved forward with the innovations many take for granted even to this day:

(a) PULLMAN 12-1: Usually this heavyweight trailed the streamlined consist – with the exception of a heavyweight lounge car midway in the string. The car was a 12 section, 1 drawing room Pullman rather common back in the 40’s.

(b) PULLMAN SECTION SLEEPER: Provided the most basic in terms of sleeping accommodations for the first class traveler. This arrangement may be posed an awkward situation for some, as complete strangers wound up sharing the unit. The protocol was passengers who purchased the upper-berths were obliged to sit in the rearward facing seats during daytime travel, whereas the lower berths entitled the passengers to the forward facing ones. The upper berth was without windows, and was accessed by a ladder. Heavy, dark curtains provided privacy for the sleepers in each unit.

(c) THE ROOMETTE: A 1937 innovation provided the privacy and space demanded by the traveling public. These were smaller than double bedrooms, but much more affordable for the single traveler. By day, there was a wide, plush seat with a toilet facility. At night, the bed folded out of the wall, covering the toilet, but gave a window level, wall to wall, bed. This accommodation became the most popular following the end of WWII.

(d) THE DOUBLE BEDROOM: This was the choice for traveling couples. With two beds, two collapsible day chairs and a fully accessible toilet (at all times), a cozy environment was provided for the train travelers. There were two types: (1) a couch that folded into a bed, crosswise to the rails, with a second bed folded down from the ceiling. (2) Then there were the fold down bunks parallel to the rails.

(e) MASTER BEDROOM: Some referred to this as a “cousin” to the Drawing Room. Both featured three beds, but the difference was the fully enclosed shower in the Master Bedroom. The bunk beds were perpendicular to the rails, whereas the third bed was at window level and parallel to them.

(f) PULLMAN RESTAURANT CAR: In the 1930s, Pullman converted many heavyweights into “Parlour – restaurant” or “restaurant-sleeper” cars. This was done to supplement the operating railroad’s usually full dining cars. Pullman’s own employees were assigned to these cars and they quickly became the “car of choice” for Pullman travelers. Elegance in dining was commonplace at these tables.

(8) THE END: The Pullman Company ceased collecting money and staffing cars after December 31, 1968. Shortly thereafter the maintenance for the cars ended, thereby leaving the host railroads with a choice: staff them on their own, or discontinue the sleepers.

POST SCRIPT: There is so much not said within this submission about this fine company. Those who created it, nurtured it and operated it have a place in railroad lore, just as well as those who staffed and maintained those wonderful Pullmans of days gone by.


Enjoy your weekend![tup]

BK in beautiful Alberta, Canada's high country!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house, and $ for the jukebox.

Where to begin?
White Pass and Yukon material is first-rate. Again as others said, on my "to do" list. This historical pictures were fascinating - hats off to their B&B dept. Also liked the snowplow photos.

BK and LARS - Thanks for including the pictures

AL: The roster has been downloaded

ROB: PNC - I used to see a lot of their stuff around, but, as you suggested, they disappeared from the r/b business.

BK: Enjoyed the Pullman encore; safe travels.

In the Official Guide, WP&Y was always toward the back of the book, generally right after the entry for the Alaska RR.

Check this out re WP&Y freight service in 1969. They don't write like this any more......

"The White Pass and Yukon Route now offers complete year-round weekly freight service to and from the Yukon and Northern BC via the MV Frank H. Brown and the MV Klondike sailing weekly from Vancouver to Skagway, Alaska, where the WP&Y connection is made for delivery to Whitehorse. From Whitehorse all other points are served by trucking including Dawson City, Mayo, and the Alaska Highway. This service features containerized freight designed for easy handling and minimum loss to shippers as well as door-to-door service. Heated and refrigerated containers are available as required. The economy of handling results in substantial savings to the customer. All-inclusive tariff rates have been developed for easy calculation of total transportation costs. For full information consult your nearest White Psss and Yukon Sales and Service representative."

Incidentally, the WP&Y's traffic reps were in Seattle, Vancouver, White Horse, Dawson, and Watson Lake.

I'll try and check back a little later.

work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #78

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the PULLMAN COMPANY

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . GO PULLMAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
THE SAFEST, MOST COMFORTABLE WAY OF GOING PLACES FAST!



Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


Pullman Company

The Pullman Palace Car Company, owned by George Pullman, manufactured railroad cars in the mid to late 1800s through the early decades of the 20th century, during the boom of railroads in the United States. Pullman developed the sleeping car which carried his name into the 1980s.


Pullman car exterior



Pullman car interior


History


A 1910 Pullman car which served as the Denver and Rio Grande Railroad Business Car 101, now restored as the Abraham Lincoln.

George Pullman was inspired by an overnight train ride from Buffalo to Westfield, New York to design an improved passenger railcar. He established his company in 1867 and built luxury sleeping cars which featured carpeting, draperies, upholstered chairs, libraries and card tables and an unparalleled level of customer service.

Once a household name due to their large market share, the Pullman Company is also known for the bitter Pullman Strike staged by their workers and union leaders in 1893. During an economic downturn, Pullman reduced hours and wages but not rents leading to the strike. Workers joined the American Railway Union, led by Eugene V. Debs.

After George Pullman's death in 1898, Robert Todd Lincoln, son of Abraham Lincoln became company president. The company closed its factory in the Pullman neighborhood in 1957.

Pullman purchased the Standard Steel Car Company in 1930 amid the Great Depression, and the merged entity was known as Pullman-Standard Car Manufacturing Company. The company ceased production after the Amtrak Superliner cars in 1982 and its remaining designs were purchased in 1987 when it was absorbed by Bombardier.

Company town


Pullman town

The company built a company town, Pullman, on 4,000 acres (16 km²) just south of the city limits of Chicago in 1880. The town, entirely company-owned, provided housing, markets, a library, churches and entertainment for the 6,000 company employees and an equal number of dependents. One employee is quoted as saying "We are born in a Pullman house, fed from the Pullman shops, taught in the Pullman school, catechized in the Pullman Church, and when we die we shall go to the Pullman Hell". Alcohol was prohibited in the town, as George Pullman found it a disdainful habit for his workers; though it was available in the company's Florence Hotel, primarily for the benefit of the hotel guests, but was generally too expensive for laborers.

In 1898, the Illinois Supreme Court required the company to sell off the town which was annexed into the city of Chicago. Today, Pullman is a City, State and National Landmark District with an integrated population that has a strong drive towards restoration of this unique district.

Porters


Pullman porter

They are also remembered for the Pullman Porters, attendants of the sleeping cars. The Pullman Company hired African Americans for this position. While still a menial job in many respects, it offered better pay and security than most jobs open to African Americans at the time, in addition to a chance for travel, and was a well regarded job in the African-American community of the time. Pullman porters were unionized in the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters under A. Philip Randolph. It should also be noted that the Pullman company was the largest African American employer in the U.S.


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest ogf the gang. Time for a Coffee and a crumpet.

Like the Pullman subject of the day.

PULLMAN
Streamlined Observations
by Al

In May 1933 Pullman Standard delivered to Pullman one 28 seat Coach Buffet 12 seat Dinette 10 seat Lounge Observation car constructed of Aluminum and riveted together. This car was never assigned a name and was displayed at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair. The car featured a rather odd tapered round Observation end never repeated on any other car. At the observation end was a pair of clamshell doors. The unnumbered car ran on experimental Aluminum trucks never repeated. The car was leased to the Union Pacific between October 1936 and March 1938 and painted in the UP yellow and brown with gold leaf lettering. The car carried the name CITY OF CHEYENNE on its flanks and was operated between Denver and Cheyenne. Apparently the car was extremely rough riding and at the end of the lease returned to Pullman where it was stored in Chicago. It is believed the car was scrapped for its Aluminum content sometime during WWII probably 1943.

28 REVENUE SEAT COACH BUFFET 12 SEAT DINETTE 10 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Sloping Round) Pullman Standard May 1933 (Built for display at 1933 Chicago World's Fair)

CITY OF CHEYENNE

The other Observation delivered by Pullman Standard to Pullman in May 1933 was also displayed at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair. This car named GEORGE M. PULLMAN for the founder of the Company that bore his name. The interior of the Aluminum car featured 3 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 8 seat Dinette 12 seat Lounge 8 seat Lounge Observation. The Observation end of the car featured a rounded end with a single center door. The car was delivered in its natural Aluminum finish with no skirting and fixed vestibule-boarding steps. The car as delivered ran on experimental 4-wheel trucks.
After operating on the rear of several trains for short periods the car was returned to Pullman where it was shopped in November 1937. At that time the car had side skirting installed, standard six wheel trucks replaced the experimental 4-wheel trucks the car had been delivered with. At the same time the car received a full width diaphragm at the vestibule end of the car. New retractable folding steps were installed in the vestibule. The car was painted in Pullman's standard two-tone gray paint scheme at that time as well.
The first major assignment for the GEORGE M. PULLMAN after the rework was to one of the Santa Fe CHIEF consists between February, 1938 and July 1938. The reason for this was one of the CHIEF Sleeper Lounge Observations was assigned to operate in the second SUPER CHIEF consist for the same period until Pullman Standard delivered the new SUPER CHIEF sleeper Lounge Observation.
The next assignment for the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was to the TREASURE ISLAND SPECIAL for both seasons of its operation between May 22, 1939 - August 21, 1939 and between June 22, 1940 - September 16, 1940. For both seasons of this trains operation the GEORGE M. PULLMAN brought up the markers. In its first season the sleeping cars were all streamlined heavyweights and in the TREASURE ISLAND SPECIALS second season all sleeping cars were lightweights.
Beginning August 23, 1939 the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was assigned to the temporary replacement CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO after the original train was wrecked. The GEORGE M. PULLMAN was withdrawn when the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO regular Observation SF-901 returned in May 1940 from repairs.
Following WW II the GEORGE M. PULLMAN returned to the Santa Fe where it once again brought up the markers of one of the CHIEF consists between February 1947 and November 1950. Again the CHIEF had to give up one of its regularly assigned Sleeper Lounge Observations to the new daily SUPER CHIEF until a final SUPER CHIEF VISTA series car was delivered to the Santa Fe in November 1950.
After that the car returned to Pullman Chicago.
In October 1952 the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was sold to the Chicago Great Western for Business car use. It is known the car was used in charter service by the CGW bringing customers from Minneapolis to Omaha and on at least one occasion the car was seen in Kansas City. For most of its time on the CGW it sat at Oelwein, Iowa the roads main shops. In September 1964 the car was transferred to Omaha where it was cut up for scrap.

3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 8 SEAT DINETTE 12 SEAT LOUNGE 7 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Round) Pullman Standard Plan: 4028 Lot: 6400 (Built for and assigned to Pullman lease fleet)

GEORGE M. PULLMAN

The next Pullman owned streamlined Observation was actually a pair of articulated cars. The first of the articulated pair was a 14 single room 2 double Bedroom articulated sleeping car named ADVANCE. The ADVANCE"S articulated running mate was the PROGRESS a 3 Double Bedroom 1 Compartment Buffet 19 seat Lounge 10 seat Lounge Observation. The pair delivered to Pullman-by-Pullman Standard in August 1936.
For their first regular assignment beginning in June 1937 the cars were renamed and painted in the Pullman two tone Gray scheme. The new names they would carry for the rest of their operational lives were as follows.

BEAR FLAG originally ADVANCE
CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC originally PROGRESS

They were than assigned to the FORTY-NINER between Chicago and San Francisco running opposite the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO. The FORTY NINER began service July 8, 1937 and was discontinued July 26, 1941replaced by a second CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO train set.
Next regular assignment for the articulated pair was to one of the two ARIZONA LIMITED consists for the second and final season this train operated between Chicago and Phoenix. This seasonal train operated from December 1941 to April 1942 its second and final season.
Next regular assignment for the pair was in 1950 as temporary wreck replacement for a CITY OF LOS ANGELES observation.
Finally in August 1956 the articulated pair were retired and scrapped by Pullman.

ARTICULATED 14 DUPLEX SINGLE ROOM 2 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard August 1936 Plan: 4050 Lot: 6478 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

ADVANCE
Later renamed
BEAR FLAG

ARTICULATED 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT BUFFET 19 SEAT LOUNGE 10 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow - Tailed)
Pullman Standard August 1936 Plan: 4051A Lot: 6478 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

PROGRESS
Later renamed CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC

Pullman Standard next delivered AMERICAN MILEMASTER to Pullman in time for the New York World's Fair of 1939. Pullman Standard completed the car in April 1939 and immediately readied it for the fair. This car had an interior that featured 2 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment 1 drawing Room Buffet 19 seat Lounge 8 seat Lounge Observation.
First regular assignment for AMERICAN MILEMASTER after the fair was to one of the two consists of the All Pullman All Room Winter only ARIZONA LIMITED train sets between Chicago and Tucson-Phoenix. The AMERICAN MILEMASTER only operated in the ARIZONA LIMITED its first winter of operation. In September 1941 the AMERICAN MILEMASTER was transferred to the Southern Pacific for operation in one of the LARK consists after that trains nearly identical Observation 400 was wrecked. In December 1941 AMERICAN MILEMASTER became SP 2nd 400. It remained in SP service for the rest of its operational service life.

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 19 SEAT LOUNGE 8 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow - Tailed Pullman Standard April 1939 Plan: 4082 Lot: 6597 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

AMERICAN MILEMASTER

A twin to AMERICAN MILEMASTER was constructed by Pullman Standard in June 1940 and named MUSKINGUM RIVER. The only difference being that MUSKINGGUM RIVER used stainless steel in its construction.
The MUSKINGUM RIVER was assigned to one consist of the ARIZONA LIMITED for both the 1940 - 41 winter season and 1941 - 42 winter season.
As soon as the second and final season of the ARIZONA LIMITED was completed the MUSKINGUM RIVER joined its twin the former AMERICAN MILEMASTER operating on the rear of the other LARK consist after SP Observation 401 was wrecked and scrapped. In June 1943 MUSKINGUM RIVER was numbered SP 2nd 401.

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM! COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 19 SEAT LOUNGE 8 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow - Tailed Pullman Standard June 1940 Plan: 4082 Lot: 6608 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

MUSKINGUM RIVER

The last Pullman owned streamlined Observation was the Dome Lounge Observation built for the 1947 GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW. Each of the TRAIN OF TOMORROW'S four cars was an Astra Dome. Their was a Dome Coach, Dome Dining Car, Dome Sleeping Car and the Dome Lounge Observation. The cars were finished in Cor-Ten steel with fluted stainless panels below the windows and the letter board. Each cars was named with the Astra Dome Lounge Observation receiving the name MOON GLOW. Interior of the MOON GLOW featured 24 seats in the Dome. On the main level of the car the forward section ahead of the dome was 13 seat Lounge. Below the Dome was a 10 seat Lounge area and the cars Bar. In a small private nook behind the stairs to the dome was a desk with one chair. The rear Observation end of the main floor featured another Lounge area with seating for 21. The rear of the Observation was rounded with an emergency door centered in the rear.
In September 1950 the entire TRAIN OF TOMORROW was purchased by the UP and after repainting in Omaha the cars were assigned to UP trains 457 and 458 operating between Portland and Seattle round trip daily.
After being rebuilt for mid-train operation in 1959 the 9015 as the MOON GLOW was numbered operated in one of the CITY OF DENVER train sets.
All four cars were retired in the early 1960's by the UP and sold to a scrapper in Pocatello, Idaho.
Fortunately the former MOON GLOW was rescued from the scrap pile by a Railroad Historical Society group out of Ogden, Utah. It is hoped the car will be rebuilt to a Dome Lounge Car when funds are available.

24 SEAT ASTRA DOME 44 SEAT BUFFET LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Round) Pullman Standard May 1947 (Built for and assigned to GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW)

MOON GLOW

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Another strange beginning - two days in succession WITHOUT barndad Doug and that after a day WITHOUT pwolfe Pete! Nevertheless, we WILL move on![swg]

Nice way to start the morning for us, BK and it kick-started me with my follow-up on Pullman![tup][tup][tup] Safe trip and see ya next week . . .

Rob "Count Robulla" has gone back to his nocturnal ways and looks as if we'll be without him during daylight for awhile. Received your Email and responded ... Thanx![tup] Appreciate the Posts and your Index is g-r-o-w-i-n-g!! What that means is you are "loaded" for many ENCORE! Saturdays to come.[swg]

CM3 Pleased you could make it in this AM - figured we'd probably be without you, but the surprise is well worth the anticipation! Figured you'd enjoy yesterday's White Pass & Yukon Route just a matter of getting you to see it! No matter, the follow up is appreciated as are the quarters and round![tup][tup]

That last "rebuild" of yours kind of says it all, eh[?] My oh my how the industry has changed over the years, but then again, so have we all. Interesting stuff - thanx![tup]

for: Pete That BC freight (871027) car you mentioned with the reporting mark of BCIT (British Columbia Railways) is a center beam flat used to transport banded and wrapped lumber products. Very common throughout Canada.




Catch y'all later - I'll be behind the bar for the day.

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]