"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[LoveDomes]

Hey Guys!

Just wanted all of you to know that I am really "up" tongiht and it's all because of the "honor" bestowed on me this morning. It's about 9 PM here on the right coast and generally at this time, I am fighting the wearies. Not tonight - I'm wired! Didn't want to fail to recognize the guys who recognized me!

So, barkeep, set 'em up on me and I'll take a JD on the rocks! Here's to Captain Tom and crew! I thank one and all for your kind comments and for taking the time to make mention of this special event for an old sailorman.[tup]

Until the next time!

Lars

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom And All.

TOM Many thanks for the American Flyer and Lionel histories [tup]. The reference to Meccano brought back memories it was very popular in the U.K. and even had its own monthly Meccano Magazine which covered all aspects of transport as well as advertizing the products.

It was a sad end to the Lionel factory in New Jersey. The Polar Express was a great boon for the industry. I wonder wether the Harry Potter sets have seen simular popularity in the UK [?].

DAVE Scarey story[wow]. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
Sad to report SP livered locos seem scarce through here at the moment.

LARS glad you are enjoying the day and thanks for the round[tup].

TOM Good news we are going to up grade the puter system server so hopefully I shall have less problems [^]. PETE.

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon, a double for Lars on his big day, a Keith's for me, and a round of whatever everyone else here today wishes.

First off Lars A hearty congrats to you sir.[tup] I did tell Boris to make sure that all the red paint was properly scrapped off yor new stool,seems painting and paint removal is another thing that our local [alien] is unable to do,mind you he seems to enjoy drinking turpentine [:O] Anyway enjoy your new found furniture at the bar, a more highly deserving person I can't think of at the moment.[tup][tup] .

Tom I'm glad that I was able to help catch that slip last night,It could have been disasterous.I absolutly detest wallpaper myself which is why we removed it.Why anyone would wallpaper a bathroom ( with gaudy pink flowers to boot ) is also beyond me. It's much better now,one more coat o painy tomorrow and the floor tiles on Friday and it's all good.[tup]

Great info on the Lionel and AF today from you as well,I'm odd in that I never started out my modelling ventures with a set from either. Your ead som many feature articles in the model rags stating how they had started out with that Lionel or AF train around the xmas tree.


BK Your first delve into the trains publications was bang on. Actually all of Greg Macdonals books are excellant. I think that you would enjoy Signatures in Steel, Passing Trains, and Heartland as well. He's a great guy actually, we have had him at the museum several times selling / signing his books, to quote the old saying he's good people.

Doug Glad you liked the SAL bit,It's a good idea to write down what you have as far as those articles go,I used to buy alot of paperback books and never really recorded which ones I had etc,only duplicated twice but needless to say I write stuff down now as well. Liked the article on AF and Lionel as well,seems the two have been the theme for today as both you and CM3 and Tom all hit on the same subject, neat ![:)]

Pete I'm glad that you enjoyed the article as well,named freight trains are an almost extinct species over here,most just have numbers like CN and CP use or alot of the US roads use letter shortforms to show where a train starts and ends it's run. Any photo's of those odd ball diesels you mentioned [?]

Well folks have a good evening.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Hello Time for another update[^]

THE CLASSIC INDEX VER 5


CLASSIC JUICE

#1 The London and Port Stanley RY L&PS pg# 116
#2 The Niagara St Catharines & Toronto RY NS&T pg# 123
#3 The Montreal and Southern Counties MS&C pg# 131
#4 The Brantford & Hamilton RY B&H pg# 134
#5 The Berlin and Waterloo Street Railway B&WSR pg# 142
#6 The Nearside Car pg# 146
#7 The Peter Witt Story pg# 148
#8 The PCC Car pg# 157
#9 The Nippissing Central N&C RY pg# 140
#10 The Safety Car pg# 162
#11 CNR Electric Lines pg# 163
#12 The Toronto Civic Railway TCR pg# 180
#13 The TCR Cars pg # 180
#14 The Toronto Suburban Railway TSR pg# 211
#15 Canadian Streetcar and Electric Locomotive Builders pg# 212
#16 US Streetcar and Electric Locomotive Builders ( that built for Canada ) pg# 217
#17 The Grand River Railway GRR pg# 223
#18 The Lake Erie and Northern Railway LE&N pg# 224
#19 The British Columbia Electric Railway BCER pg# 225
#20 Incline Railways of Hamilton pg# 242
#21 Pre History of the TTC pt1 pg#248
#22 Pre History of the TTC pt2 pg#249
#23 Pre History of the TTC pt3 pg#250



CNR CLASSIC STEAM

#1 Huntsville Sub pg# 159
#2 Alliston Sub pg# 163
#3 Strathroy sub pg# 165
#4 Niagara Falls Passenger Trains pg# 170
#5 Passenger Trains on Brampton & Thorndale Subs pg # 170
#6 The " Roustabout " pg# 176
#7 Passenger trains to Palmerston pg# 182
#8 Southern On railmap pg# 183
#9 Speacial Frieghts on The Niagara Frontier pg# 191
#10 Speacial Freights on The Niagara Frontier Pt 2 pg# 191
#11 Passenger Train Profiles PT 1 pg# 198
#12 Passenger Train Profiles PT 2 pg# 198
#13 The Formation of The CNR pg# 218
#14 The CSR's ST Clair Branch pg# 226
#15 History of CNR Passenger Service pg# 250



CLASSIC CANADIAN ADS

#1 TH&B Doodlebug Ad for EMC pg# 153
#2 National Geographic Ad for CNR Circa 1929 pg# 209
#3 CNR Hotels Ad Circa 1932 pg# 209
#4 The Empire Express pg# 251


CLASSIC DIESEL BARN New Name

#1 Southern Pacific Roster pg#254
#2 NA Diesel Manufacturer's Pt 1pg # 254*new
#3 NA Diesel Manufacturer's Pt 2pg # 256*new
#4 NA Diesel Manufacturer's Pt 3pg # 259*new
#5 Northern Pacific in 1960 pg # 260 *new
#6 BC Rail Tumbler Division pg # 262 *new
#7 BC Rail Locomotive Roster c1993 pg # 262 *new
#8 The CF7 Story pg # 263 *new
#9 Seaboard Railroad Freight Ops pg # 268 *new

[nickinwestwales]

Well (very early) good morning one and all-Just tea & toast for me this fine day please [4:-)][oX)]TOM
Apologies for not making it back earlier,combination of busy day and return of last weeks lurgi (possible week-end over indulgance here ) had me in bed by about 17.00 central.
Quick expansion on pike idea,then it`s off to the galley for several hot toddies to sweat it out whilst I catch up on the week so far-coast lines,auto train,points arising,parties various ,Lionel history etc.
So Pike plan-single track main (either C.N or C.P for me ) circling room with junction on one of the short sides and staging along a long one.
Short line running out and back along a central penninsula with H.Q and largish industry (paper mill ?) at turn-back point.
climbs back towards junction then swings around over main-line staging to branch terminal-industries:- logging,mining as principals for branch,others dotted around layout as appropriate.
-Possible added interest of branch extending to mine/lumber workings on private track,perhaps with small box cab electric,powered by cheap hydro.
Visualise main line in code 100 with c.83 sidings,branch in c.83 with c.70 sidings and mineral extension in c.55.
2-8-0`s providing power on the branch plus switching and local turns out from the junction,main line power-mix of F-Units & Geeps,according to taste
Right thats it for now,brain turned to mush-back when I can count to ten without using fingers
Have a good one fellas,be lucky,nick,[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM (all times zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Good Thursday Morning! Start the day with a cup of freshly brewed coffee, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast![tup]

CONGRATULATIONS to LoveDomes Lars for being the newest member of ”Our” Places’s Order of the Stools – Reserved status!![tup][wow][tup][yeah][tup]


Repeat: Birthday Bash! scheduled for Monday, March 13th at 2 PM (Central) Combined party for barndad Doug ‘n LoveDomes Lars


Repeat: If anyone would like to “host” a St. Patrick’s Day Party! March 17th, let me know! The time is up to whoever “hosts” it. I’m not sure that I’ll be available. NO takers, no party.


Daily Wisdom

You’ve got to the careful if you don’t know where you’re going ‘cause you might not get there!”[swg]
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Railways of Europe ICE Train of Germany arrives TODAY – watch for it!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Fish ‘n Chips Nite!
Friday: Pizza Nite! & Steak ‘n Fries Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 05:22:16 (268) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 05:54:24 (268) Pike Perspectives Day! Lionel Trains, etc. & Joke!

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 05:54:48 (268) Something Special coming

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 07:51:11 (268) Acknowledgments, etc.

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 08:36:32 (268) AM Post!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 09:00:02 (268) Selection Committee results!

(7) BudKarr BK Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 11:48:05 (268) The BK Report!

(8) West Coast S Dave Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 13:05:31 (268) Visit, SCL-SP connection

(9) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 14:12:09 (268) The Lars Report!

(10) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 14:13:34 (268) Nick in brief![swg]

(11) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 14:50:10 (268) A deal[?]]

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 15:10:11 (268) Acknowledgments, etc.

(13) pwolfe Pete Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 16:23:02 (269) Pete’s Post!

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 16:43:11 (269) reply to pwolfe

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 18:17:06 (269) American Flyer & Lionel trains

(16) West Coast S Dave Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 18:21:09 (269) Comments

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 18:26:07 (269) reply to West Coast S

(18) West Coast S Dave Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 18:45:23 (269) He’s seen the light![swg]

(19) barndad Doug Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 19:28:01 (269) PM visit & Joke!

(20) siberianmo Tom Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 19:47:03 (269) reply to barndad

(21) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 19:56:36 (269) Nice stuff!

(22) pwolfe Pete Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 21:03:56 (269) Pete’s PM Post!

(23) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 21:53:20 (269) Inclusive Post, etc.!

(24) trolleyboy Rob 08 Mar 2006: 08 Mar 2006, 22:06:33 (269) Classic INDEX, Ver. 5

NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features! Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 5th thru 11th: North to Alaska (1960) starring: John Wayne, Stewart Granger & Capucine – and – Lost in Alaska (1952) starring: Bud Abbott & Lou Costello. Short: A Pain in the Pullman (1936).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Railways of Europe – ICE of Germany - arrives on Track #1 this morning!. Watch for it!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and gang! I'll have my usual two light breakfasts. Please put them on a table across the room, as I need the exercise.Rob, I'm with you .... it's not only a good idea to keep track of the issues of magazines you have, but also an index of the articles that are in them. I sorta got a start on that a few days ago. Our proprieter here blew me away when he not only named the trainsets on his layout, the make and year of each model, and also the make and year of each vehicle. Tom, did you also provide a list of names and ages of all the people too? I can't rembember. Anywho ... thanks for the index on your "stuff"!

I see Nick was first here this AM. Is the layout you mentioned actually built?

And now ... here's Part I of another Zephyr article:

The Burlington Zephyrs – March 1937 Railroad Stories

One of the new Denver Zephyr trains. It is composed of twelve cars (only ten are shown in the photo), two of which house the motive power units: The first car two 900-horsepower diesel engines and the second a 1200-horsepower diesel engine.


While it was not exactly a prosperous one, the year 1933 was one of the most momentous in the history of American railroading. It marked the birth of the Diesel-electric, streamlined passenger train. Ere twelve months were up it wan on the rails, and today a couple dozen more are or soon will be in service. Thus a whole revolution in the technique of railroading has been effected, and a new type of transport train has become another commonplace in the railroad business.

The Diesel-electric, streamlined passenger train has been making good – not necessarily because it is Diesel-electric, but simply because it has given the customer more in comfort, speed and looks and also because it has caught his attention more effectually. No better case in point can be found than the largest group of Diesel-electrics on any other American road, the Burlington’s fleet of eight Zephyrs.

The original Zephyr, which broke all long-distance speed records on a demonstration journey from Denver to Chicago at an average of 77.6 miles an hour, was completed in the spring of 1934 and was put in service late that fall between Kansas City, Mo., and Lincoln, Neb., via Omaha. It was so successful in attracting new passengers that it has been followed by seven other Zephyr type trains; and the eight of them now cover a total of 5900 miles every day.

These facts tell their own story. For the Zephyrs are expensive trains, costing twice as much as a steam train of the old-fashioned type and a great deal more even than a steam engine and light-weight cars, such as the Milwaukee’s Hiawatha. The first Zephyr, a three-car unit (including the engine), came to better than $250,000. Although costs are being reduced, a Diesel-electric locomotive cannot be built for less than three times as much as a steam locomotive of the same capacity, and hence a train of the same cars costs all the way from 25 to 100 per cent more when hauled by it. Obviously, then, the Zephyrs must have justified their high original cost, or there would not be eight of them on the Burlington alone.

They have done so in different ways. First and most important, they have attracted full loads of passengers. Their appearance alone was bound to do so, for the sight of their stainless steel, speed-lined exteriors is enough to claim the attention of any person. The advertising and ballyhoo that accompanied them helped enormously, for they created the impression that these trains represented a new era in transportation. And the comfort and speed built into them completed the job. They were air-conditioned; they were professionally designed to please the eye of the passenger; they were operated at low fares on mile-a-minute schedules where trains had never been run so fast before. No wonder there were no seats left.

Out of justice to the steam locomotive manufacturers, it is worth pointing out here that all these factors have nothing much to do with the type of motive power. The same thing can be done and has been done with streamlined trains. The Diesel-electric engine burst upon the railroad world at a very luck time, when the movement toward light weight, air-conditioning, high speeds and streamlining was still in its infancy. By using all these new developments, the Diesel-electric stole the show, and created the impression that there is a mysterious law forbidding a steam engine to haul a light-weight train.

However, this article is written to praise and not *** the Zephyrs, and if the men who made them and the railroad which operates them have sense enough to put them over in a big way, the credit must be theirs. The fastest, cheapest, and swellest train in the world is no good to anyone while it is still on paper or in the back of somebody’s mind. Secondly, the Zephyrs have justified their first cost by showing low operating expense. The original Zephyr streamliner is composed of three cars (including the power unit)., boasts 72 saleable seats and costs about 31 cents a mile to run. This is no less than half the cost of a standard steam train of similar capacity.

Again, to be sure, the figures do no tell the whole story. The Milwaukee’s light-weight, steam-powered Hiawatha provides 464 seats, 291 of them saleable, and is operated for 90 cents a mile, which figures out to less cost per seat than the 31 cents of the Zephyr. But nobody has yet constructed a steam train seating 72 people which can be operated at 31 cents a mile, and as long as this is true the Burlington is justified in claiming all it does for the four-car Zephyr.

The third feature of the Zephyrs which helps work off their high price is the huge daily mileage run off by each of them. Since interest on money which is borrowed to buy equipment must be paid whether the equipment is used or not, the best way to reduce the interest charge per mile is to get as many miles a day out of the equipment as possible. The Zephyrs are averaging 737 miles a day apiece, with the Denver trains each doing over 30,000 miles a month. So far the best record for a steam passenger locomotive is around 19,000 miles a month, and the average is far less. Within the next few years, it is predicted, some steam engines will be doing better than 25,000 a month. If so, it would not be going too far to say that the competition of trains like the Zephyrs will be the inspiration for such deeds.

As has been mentioned, eight Zephyrs are now in daily service. The first one, a three-car train, is still making 500 miles a day at an average speed of 52 miles per hour, on a round trip run between Lincoln, Omaha, St. Joseph, and Kansas City. Slightly smaller than ordinary equipment, it weighs about 95 tons, uses a 660-horsepower Diesel motor. Next is the four-car Mark Twain Zephyr, in local service between St. Louis and Burlington, Iowa, a 442-mile round trip. Because of the number of stops, it averages only 40 miles an hour.

[:I] A very successful lawyer parked his brand new Lexus in front of the office, ready to show it off to his colleagues. As he got out, a truck came along, too close to the curb, and completely tore off the driver's door of the Lexus.
The counselor immediately grabbed his cell phone, dialed 911, and it wasn't more than 5 minutes before a policeman pulled up. Before the cop had a chance to ask any questions, the lawyer started screaming hysterically.
His Lexus, which he had just picked up the day before, was now completely ruined and would never be the same, no matter how the body shop tried to make it new again.
After the lawyer finally wound down from his rant, the cop shook his head in disgust and disbelief. "I can't believe how materialistic you lawyers are," he said. "You are so focused on your possessions that you neglect the most important things in life."
"How can you say such a thing?" asked the lawyer.
The cop replied, "My God, don't you even realize that your left arm is missing? It got ripped off when the truck hit you!!!"
"Oh My God!" screamed the lawyer. "My Rolex!!!!!" [:I]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Second day in succession where the rains have prevented Juneau and I from taking our 6:30 AM trek around the subdivision. (I don’t call it a neighborhood, for these days and in these places, I have my doubts whether most even know what a bona fide neighborhood is! Oh, [yeah] – forgot, the popularization [or dumbing down – take your pick] is now simply, “the hood.”) Now where was I[?] Oh, yes – the spring rains, a tad early, but most definitely appreciated and much needed. “They” say we’ll probably get more precip in the next couple of days than we have had since the end of fall. Bring it on![swg]

Hope this day brings a smile to your faces and some warmth to your hearts! So, on to the acknowledgments:

LoveDomes Lars
Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 19:56:36

Thanx for the Email! Appreciate your straightforwardness and kind words about the bar, the Order of the Stools and my mental health![swg] In all categories, I’d say all’s well. To share a bit of this with those who actually read what is written on these pages – Lars isn’t shy about stating what he feels are our strengths and weaknesses. I concur with an awful lot of his (and those from BK) feelings. Unfortunately, there are some who may be on the “squeamish side” of fortitude and the like. So, perhaps this is the time for you to skip onto something else . . . .[swg]

The Order of the Stools began as MY way of recognizing those of you who demonstrated the willingness to engage in the banter at the bar and of course make contributions to the topic of Classic Trains. The early on selections were quite arbitrary – first one going to the our first customer, and so forth. I would think the guys all understand the pecking order. Later on, I developed a “Permanent Stool” idea for the purpose of solidifying our base with people who seemed to have the potential to keep things running, without having to be reminded, etc.

So, when I made my comments yesterday about some of my “poor selections,” it had to do with simply misjudging intentions and perhaps character in some cases – both with the “Reserved & Permanent” selections. It seemed that in at least three “Permanent Stool” inductions, the guys fell flat in terms of MY expectations. That’s not their fault, it’s mine. But what was so disappointing was that the three of them really seemed to enjoy the place.

So, Lars let’s just say that your place at the bar is yours for as long as you want it. Don’t put too much into expectations, just continue on continuing on.[tup] “Permanent Stool” members on the other hand either pick up the slack or I invite them to hit the bricks. How in the world can one be considered as part of the “core” or the “nucleus” and then “blow off” pretty much most of what goes on ‘round here[?] That, my friend, is what bothers me and perhaps will ultimately cause me to pull the plug on it all.

Sounded to me as if the “induction” really got to you![swg] From what we’ve discussed, it seems that “life on the Forums” can and does imitate “real life.” Ups ‘n downs, and so forth. It’s a pleasure having guys like you spend the time with us. You’ve made an impression on the guys and are part of the group, fer sure, fer sure![tup]


pwolfe Pete
Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 21:03:56

Those two companies, A. C. Gilbert ‘n Lionel Corp. were clearly the “giants” of the toy train industry in their day. (Not talking of today’s Lionel, far, far different in all respects.) The times were far, far different as well. Boys were being raised as boys and this social experiment of uni-sex child raising wasn’t yet on the drawing boards. Boys played with toy guns, Cowboys & Indians was a “biggie,” and dressing up like soldiers seemed to be part of the process as well. Electric trains found a huge niche in the growing up process, which is still evident for those of us still growing up![swg]

The “battles” that CM3 alluded to in yesterday’s Post were commonplace where I lived. On of my best friends was an AF guy.<groan> But, I’ll reveal my innermost secret (which I’ve done before on this Thread) I liked his trains better than mine! Yep – he had the Santa Fe Alcos pulling a 4-car passenger consist in gleaming livery with a red band (I think) above the windows. What a train! Then later on, his family gave him a freight set, a steam loco with huge drivers with “white walls!” Man, were those trains great looking. I was green with envy, but never let on. Nope, it was Lionel to the end![swg] Once back into my “haunts” a walk in closet type room turned train room, my Lionel trains would quickly have me forget anything else as I became mesmerized in the sights and sounds of two trains running in opposite directions – smoke pouring from the steamer, whistle blowing in the tender and the headlights dancing all over the walls and structures around the layout. My passenger “set” was a pieced together affair (previously explained) and powered by a switcher engine (PRR diesel). The three illuminated passenger cars looked great with the lights in the room turned out. All the lighting, if I recall, came from the switch machines, the switches themselves, the transformer, the one light tower, a work caboose with searchlight, the loco headlights, the illuminated bumpers and the passenger cars. Oh yes, my passenger station had dual lights on either side of the front entry way. Lights out – trains running – Lionel was “it!”’[swg]

Here I am approaching 68, and those memories are as vivid today as if they occurred yesterday. Funny, I can’t recall the names of some of the gals I met in faraway places, but that’s another story!<grin>


trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 21:53:20 and 22:06:33

Figured you’d be all for the Stool selection! That kinda rounds it out for now, eh[?] Having a sound nucleus of guys who give a Rat’s Patoot has always been one of the goals I’ve set. Just haven’t been able to keep ‘em all together.

Glad you were able to come up for air and spend a minute or two with us. I know how tiring the work you are doing can be – but somehow, don’t you find the time ‘round here a bit on the relaxing side[?] It’s far better, of course, when there are some guys to communicate back, rather than have to wait. Such is life on the Forums. My guess is that if we got into “Instant Messenger” and those types of capabilities, we’d not enjoy what we have as much. No record, for one thing, and “instant” is perishable, if you know what I mean[?] At least with this type of arrangement, one has the time to compose, review and submit. I like that . . .

Nice job on your revised INDEX! Hope the guys take the time to “bookmark” or “save” it. I do and did. [swg]


nickinwestwales Nick
Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 03:53:04

Sounds as if the “grip” has got ya in it’s grip![tdn] When the “bod” sez it’s time to get prone, one must follow the orders. Obviously, you’re not back quite yet . . so do what must be done in order to resume your duties ‘round here! What in #*@ do you think the salary is for[?] Ooooooops, sorry – slipped away from my “compassionate” self, didn’t I[?][swg]

That track plan you described, is it “real,” or in the planning stages[?] And, what’s the deal with the differing track codes[?] I’m not sure I follow the thought with that.


barndad Doug
Posted: 08 Mar 2006, 05:35:12

Burlington Zephyr, now if anything should shake 20 Fingers out of whatever is bothering him, my guess is he’ll jump all over the topic. Not quite sure what to make of our “left coast” friend lately. Ill or not ill[?] Part of the bar or not[?] Haven’t seen him on “my other thread” either, but he has been observed elsewhere. Hmmmmmmmmm.

So, your comments about my RR inventory are somewhat dated, eh[?] or did I miss something[?] [yeah] I’m very much a “detail” kinda guy when it comes to keeping track of things in my life. Records of this ‘n that. Don’t quite know how to explain it, but it’s just something I seem to enjoy doing. None of it amounts to more than a bucket with a hole in it, but for me, every now ‘n then, I like to look at my assorted inventories of the layouts and enjoy the reality that it’s all right downstairs in the Can-Am trainroom[swg]

Oh yes, I do have an inventory of all the figures (people ‘n animals) but no names ….. yet![swg] Smart-A!!!<grin>


Okay, boyz, I’ll be here for the day!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


Stick around a few minutes AFTER POSTING - The information you MISS may be for YOU!

Those who acknowledge the other guy, get acknowledged!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Congrats to Lars on his "elevation."

Also appreciated more Lionel information and Zephyr material and other information as well.

Here is some N&W material. It's interesting to see in all of this that there was still a fair amount of service on the old Wabash.

Norfolk and Western
Passenger Service – 1969

Norfolk-Cincinnati

N&W 3 and 4 “The Pocahontas”

Sleeping Car: 10 rtte/6db: Norfolk-Cincinnati
Diner-Lounge: Norfolk-Williamson
Reclining Seat Dome Coach: Norfolk-Cincinnati
Reclining Seat Coaches: Norfolk-Cincinnati

Complimentary meals served to sleeping car passengers

Breakfast – 6:00 a.m. – 10:00 p.m.
Dinner – 5:30 p.m. – 10:00 p.m.

Dining car arrived westbound at Williamson at 2:10 a.m.
Dining car departed eastbound from Williamson at 4:50 a.m.

New York-Bristol

PC/SOU/N&W 41 and 42 “The Pelican”

Reclining Seat Coaches: New York-Washington
Reclining Seat Coaches: Washington-Bristol

New York-New Orleans

PC/SOU/N&W/SOU 17 and 18 “Birmingham Special”

Diner: Washington-Monroe
Reclining Seat Coaches: Washington-Birmingham; Birmingham-New Orleans; Roanoke-Norfolk (handled in N&W 3 and 4); Roanoke –Bluefield (handled in N&W 3 and 4)

St. Louis – Decatur – Chicago

N&W 121 and 124 “The Bluebird”

Dining Car-Cocktail Lounge: Decatur-Chicago
Reclining Seat Coaches: St. Louis-Chicago

Diner departed Decatur at 12:00 noon for Chicago
Diner arrived in Decatur from Chicago at 8:29 p.m.

Orland Park – Chicago

N&W 112/113

Coaches (commuter service)

Detroit – St. Louis

N&W 301/304 “Wabash Cannon Ball”

Buffet coach: Detroit-St. Louis
Reclining Seat Coaches: Detroit-St. Louis

I'm sure the "car department" can shed some more light on these

work safe

P.S. Has the theme for next week been decided?

[LoveDomes]

Good Morning Tom and Gents at the Bar!

An uncharacteristically early post for me, I know! However, thought I’d try to acknowledge the rest of you who passed along your “congrats” my way regarding the Order of the Stools! Thanks.[tup]

I suppose in retrospect, some of you may think, “Good Grief Charlie Brown, this guy doesn’t have a life!” Well, I assure you that I do and am not generally one to get overwhelmed by surprises and the like. But, I will share this – for some unexplained reason, this connection with the bar has really been a “tonic’ for me. Much of it has to do with retirement, sedentary lifestyle, contributing, interaction, and so forth. Tom’s bar fills a void, in a sense, something that works for me.

Tom I couldn’t agree any more with the way you expressed your feelings about the bar. As in life, some guys you connect with, others you don’t. Move on is the idea, otherwise one gets consumed. Glad you got the email and appreciate the response.[tup]

I am awaiting the arrival of the ICE Train and have already “peeked” at what’s out there on the web. However, I stayed away from Wikipedia.[swg] Really did. I don’t recall the year, but the ICE Train made a visit to the U.S. and I checked it out. Pretty much in the same timeframe the tilting train from Sweden, the X2000 passed through as well. Both great looking trains and both made me wonder, “When is the U.S. going to get moving on the technology that is successful throughout many places elsewhere[?]” Still no answer to that, huh[?]

Nice “bit” on the Lionel vs AF this morning. I was “into” that aspect of it as a kid too. Even got into a fistfight over trains in the schoolyard. Really did.[tup] I won! But lost, when my father took the belt to my hide.[tdn] “You don’t beat up on your friends, you idiot, they are too far and few between!” Words to remember, I’d say.

Pete, Rob, Nick, Doug & CM3 “hello” and THANKS for your kind words! Enjoyed your posts too.[tup] Burlington Zephyr and Norfolk & Western, all in one place![tup][tup][tup]

I bit of a “notice,” something may screw me up for this Monday. But by all means, don’t let that interfere with the Birthday Bash! It is the actual day for Doug and makes perfect sense to hold it then – especially since he will be off from work. I’ll know better by this time tomorrow. Just wanted to let you know. As far as St. Patrick’s Day is concerned, I’ll do what I can to help out. But “host” is not really my “thing.” Hey, I’m Scandinavian – Norwegian as a matter of fact – both sides! However, on that day, just a “touch” of the Irish overtakes the best of us![swg]

Set ‘em up, Tom drinks on Lars!


Until the next time!

Lars

[siberianmo]

RAILWAYS of EUROPE #4 – ICE (Germany)


Deutsche Bahn (DB)


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.


InterCity Express



ICE train (Wikipedia)

The InterCity Express or ICE is a type of high-speed train operated by DB Fernverkehr in Germany and neighboring countries, for example to Zürich, Switzerland or Vienna, Austria. ICE-trains also run at lower speeds to Amsterdam, Netherlands and to Liège and Brussels, Belgium on the Belgian highspeed way. The Spanish railway operator RENFE also employs these trains, and the Russian state ordered 60 for new high-speed routes between Saint Petersburg and Moscow. The new management of the Russian railways is reviewing the order and apparently plans to reduce it to six trains. Another 60 trains were ordered for the Chinese Beijing-Tianjin high-speed rail line.

Equipment and specifications


3rd Generation ICE "Frankfurt am Main" (GNU Free Documentation)

ICE equipment is manufactured by an industrial consortium led by Siemens AG.

ICE trains require special high-speed tracks to run at high speeds, but can run on normal tracks at normal speeds.

The first generations were derived from the then-new class 120 electric locomotives. The powerheads of those units are in fact upgraded 120s with a more aerodynamic lining. Passenger cars can be coupled and uncoupled for maintenance, enabling the operator to run trains of different lengths. First-generation trains are currently undergoing a major redesign, including a standardization of train lengths.

The third generation ICE has a completely different concept: The entire traction equipment is fitted underfloor, with a larger number of less powerful motors. An ICE 3 unit consists of eight cars, four of which are powered, while the others carry other electrical equipment, including the pantographs. This design allow seats in all parts of the train, including "lounge" seats at both ends separated from the driver by a glass wall only.

The ICE 3M (class 406) is a multisystem variant of the ICE 3 that currently serves routes into the Netherland and Belgium. Licensing for French LGVs started in 2001 and has been described by engineers as a "clash of cultures". Problems included flying gravel and trackside equipment ripped loose by the ICE's magnetic brakes. Admission of the ICE 3M for regular service into France is expected late 2005 or early 2006.

ICE-T


ICE-TD train (Wikimedia Commons)

Simultaneously to the development of the ICE 3, DB demanded new tilting trainsets to be able to serve conventional tracks that couldn't be upgraded to higher speeds. Originally these trains were to be called IC-T (InterCity-Triebzug), but just prior to their introduction, DB decided to charge ICE fares for these trains and renamed them ICE-T. These trains are constructed to a concept of distributed traction similar to the ICE 3. Three different types were ordered:

• electric train with 7 cars (class 411)
• electric train with 5 cars (class 415)
• diesel train with 4 cars (class 605)

Units of either of these types can be coupled with one or more unit of the same or any other type within a few minutes.

The electric units, equipped with tilting technology of the ETR 460 bought from FIAT, entered service in 1998. A second order for additional series 411 ICE-Ts. These units, known as ICE-T2, were delivered in 2004. The main difference to the original ICE-Ts are several cost-cutting measures, giving those trains a "cheaper" look and feel.

For the diesel units, called ICE-TD, Siemens developed their own tilting technology, based on the aiming system of the Leopard 2 main gun. These trainsets became something of an embarrassment. They were to be delivered in 2000, but braking problems caused delays, so they entered service in spring 2001. Their first year in operation was overshadowed by software failures and problems with the tilting technology. One of the 20 trains fell off a maintenance platform and had to be written off. When those problems were fixed and the train finally ran without apparent problems in December 2002, a train derailed because of a broken axle. The trains were temporarily pulled out of service by the federal rail authority. When Siemens had fixed the problem, DB refused to take the trains back, claiming they weren't meeting specifications. It is speculated that besides technical difficulties, these trains were an economical burden as well. Source claim that even when filled to capacity, income from fares would be below the operating cost.

Network


ICE network in Germany
Red: 300 km/h
Orange: 250 km/h
Blue: 200 km/h
Grey: Conventional lines

Unlike the French TGV network, which is centered around Paris, the ICE network has multiple nodes. The ICE network is not a replacement of the InterCity network, but an upgrade. ICE and IC trains usually share the same tracks. The main difference being the higher speed: While the ICE trains travel at the maximum line speed, IC trains are limited to 200 km/h. The only line that is not shared with other traffic is the 300 km/h Köln-Frankfurt line due to its steep grades. In fact, it is limited to ICE3 trainsets, even the older ICE types have to take the longer route through the Rhine valley. The second 300 km/h line between Nuremberg and Ingolstadt, due to be opened on 28th May 2006, will not have these restrictions. The line will also feature Germany's fastest commuter line at 200 km/h.

Since the early 1970s, hundreds of kilometers of existing tracks have been upgraded to 200 km/h. As a result, ICE trains are able to use most conventional lines without losing too much time in the process. This allowed a rapid growth of the ICE network without the need to build several thousand kilometers to new high-speed lines. Actually, even two of the high-speed lines (Köln-Aachen at 250 km/h and Hamburg-Berlin at 230 km/h) are in fact upgraded conventional lines.

North to South

The network includes three main north-to-south corridors that start in Hamburg:

• via Bremen, Dortmund, Köln, Frankfurt and Stuttgart to Munich (branch Frankfurt - Karlsruhe - Basel)
• via Hanover, Kassel and Nuremberg to Munich
• via Berlin, Leipzig and Nuremberg to Munich

West to East

Three main west-to-east routes exist in the network:

• Bonn - Köln - Hamm - Hanover - Berlin
• Köln - Dortmund - Kassel - Lepzig - Dresden
• Saarbrücken - Frankfurt - Leipzig - Dresden

International lines

Several ICE lines cross the German borders into neighboring countries:

• Frankfurt - Köln - Duisburg into the Netherlands to Amsterdam
• Frankfurt - Köln - Aachen into Belgium to Liège and Brussels (Köln-Liège-Brussels also Thalys)
• Frankfurt - Stuttgart into Switzerland to Zürich
• some trains to Basel continue into Switzerland to Interlaken and Chur
• some trains to Nuremberg continue via Passau into Austria to Vienna.
• some trains to Munich continue into Austria via Kufstein to Innsbruck.
• some trains go in Austria between Vienna and Innsbruck.

After a lengthy process of trials and technical adjustments, a new line will be opened from Frankfurt and Stuttgart into France to Paris, which will be served alternatingly with ICE and TGV trains starting in 2007.

History


An ICE 1 train at Frankfurt Airport (Wikimedia Commons)

The ICE originated as a concept for new land-based high-speed public transportation for Germany, competing with the Transrapid monorail system. The ICE succeeded in being adopted nationwide in Germany, but development on the Transrapid system has also continued.

It is argued that the ICE prospered in part because of its ability to run on conventional tracks (albeit not at full speeds - on tracks near stations they are known to be passed by commuter trains, especially by S-Bahn trains). The shared use of old tracks also means that conventional trains often have to wait for late ICEs to pass, leading to further delays.

ICE established the world speed record for conventional trains on 1 May 1988 although it has since been surpassed by French TGV.

In 1998, a large ICE train accident occurred - Germany's worst ever passenger train disaster. The accident was due to the steel "tire" being separated from the rest of one of the train's wheels, breaking the track and causing the rest of the train to derail and collide with a concrete bridge that spanned the track.

At the time, the ICE trains used a two part wheel with a steel tire separated from the rest of the steel wheel by an elastomeric ring designed to better absorb noise and vibration. But the elastomeric separator allowed the steel tire to flex, eventually leading to metal fatigue that fractured the tire. While common in low-speed use, this two-part wheel design had never before been used on high-speed trains.

ICE service was resumed only after an investigation found the root cause of this broken wheel and after all ICE train wheels were modified to use a more conventional solid-wheel design.

Controversy

The initial development of the ICE was somewhat controversial, due to the existence of the French TGV, which had already been in operation. Arguably, the Deutsche Bahn/German state could have bought TGV technology or trains. Proponents of the decision to go ahead and develop the ICE contend that the ICE is actually only a slightly upgraded conventional train, based on existing technology already superior to the TGV, and that the development of such technology by German companies was an important investment in the future of a German high-tech industry and knowledge economy. While most international competitions were lost to the TGV consortium, technologies developed for the ICE have been applied to the construction of conventional trains with significant economic success.

Critics argue that the project was a waste of tax payers' money, since such a similar end product could have been bought "off the shelf" (referring to the option of buying TGV trains). There were also claims that it was a nationalist exercise, and that the go-ahead for ICE development constituted the then German government subsidizing certain large companies.

This argument, however, subsided and the ICE has persevered to provide a large scale, nationwide service in Germany.

Trivia

• Most seats have an audio minijack, allowing passengers to plug in headphones and choose from about 7 music/entertainment channels and radio stations. Basic headphones can be purchased on the trains.
• On most ICE trains, there is at least one (usually 1st class) carriage where individual seats are equipped with LCD screens, built into the backrest of the seat in front. Usually there are two video channels to choose from, which typically show feature films. There are no speakers, but the corresponding audio is available via the audio minijack (see above).
• The vast majority of ICE trains have power outlets for electrical devices, such as laptops. On ICE2 trains, these are located under the tray tables. In the other ICE train types, they are located between seats just above the floor. Some 50 units of the 220-train fleet are still unequipped with power sockets. These trains are currently undergoing a modernization program. By 2008, all ICE trains are expected to have power sockets.
• An electronic display above each seat indicates the locations between which the seat has been reserved. Passengers without reservation are permitted to take the seats with a blank display, or the seats with no reservation on the current section.
• At both ends of ICET and ICE3 trains there is a passenger compartment (one end 1st and the other end 2nd class) with a view of the tracks, through a transparent glass wall separating the compartment from the driver's cabin. In special circumstances the driver can make the wall opaque by the press of a button.
• There is a compartment with a play area for children.
• Bicycles are not permitted on any ICE trains.
• All ICE trains have repeater carriages. These amplifiers greatly enhance mobile phone reception by taking the signals from within the car to the outside (and vice versa). These carriages are marked with a symbol depicting a mobile phone.
• There are also silent carriages where laptops, mobile phones and other "noisy" equipment should not be used. These carry a sticker displaying a whispering symbol.
• Three specially-built washing-bays for ICE trains exist at Hamburg-Eidelstedt, Frankfurt-Höchst and München Hbf (Munich main station)


Germany: DB ICE Train at Stuttgart Hauptbahnhof (Wikimedia Commons)


Used with permission from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Formatting differences made necessary due to Forums requirements. Some heralds from other sources.

***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****

Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


Did you miss the first three in the series[?] Click on the URLs:

(1) British Rail, page 247
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=247&TOPIC_ID=35270

(2) Eurostar, page 248
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=248&TOPIC_ID=35270

(3) TGV of France, page 255
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=255&TOPIC_ID=35270



Waving flags credit to: www.3DFlags.com

[BudKarr]

Good Day Captain Tom and all assembled!

A fine selection for your European Trains. Traveled in Germany aboard ICE some years back and quite frankly the trip was so uneventful at times it was almost a "non moving" experience. Great engineering and an extremely smooth and comfortable trip, if memory still recalls correctly. As usual, no photos. Was not a rail fan experience, was strictly business.

Regards to all who passed along their best wishes and a round on me if you please! I think there is time for me to indulge a bit, so I will have a Southern Comfort on ice, thank you!

Here is a first for me, mark it down! I am going to provide two photos from my newly established internet account with PhotoBucket.com. Amazing, eh[?] I know you prefer photos for Sundays, but please indulge me a bit as these definitely fit well within your EuroTheme of the Ice Train:

ICE Train at Munich, Germany (credit: www.freefoto.com)


and

ICE Train at Munich, Germany


How is that[?][swg] An accomplishment for the likes of me![tup]

Changing gears. I thought your dissertation this morning was well put, but lost on those who need or needed it. The guys looking in and participating already are in the fold. If you have noticed, I try not to pay attention to the ignorant, self centered and otherwise indulgent bunch. They come and they go here as in life. Try not to let their deficiencies weigh you down. Just some advice.

I am going to check out your other thread and provide the same photos over there. Why not[?][swg]

Before departing I should say how much your Lionel and American Flyer pieces were enjoyed. They provided some good reading and this morning's installment of your nostalgia brought back some thoughts of my own. Again, not that I was a strident toy train enthusiast, but Lionel did occupy a special place in my early years. Much appreciated![tup]

Continuing on with some fine contributions from Rob & Doug so there is no loss for material around the place. Also the "attendance" has picked up a bit now that Sir Nick has rejuvenated the place. Just curious, are the Brit guys heading up to Toronto for your rendezvous[?] What a gathering that would make. Now if I could convince my intended to postpone the wedding . . .

One more, then I must try out my new-found talent elsewhere.

BK

[BudKarr]

Hello Again, Captain Tom

Just a post script to the aforementioned. Giving credit where credit is due, my lovely lady is responsible for not only providing me with the expertise regarding the "how to's" she also found the web site where the photos are! A tandem operation up here in Alberta's high country!

BK

[LoveDomes]

Good Afternoon Tom and Gents at the Bar!

I seem to be following BK from place to place again. Different time zones, but similar check-in habits - within an hour or so, that is.[tup]

Another drag of a day at the "Now You See It, Now You Don't" bar & grill. No matter, there's plenty of company inside with the likes of Boris and his pet armadillo, Tex scrambling about, just looking for an ankle to sink those chompers into.<ouch> Rodent! (Is that what they are[?])

Set me up with a hero sandwich, just a half will do - make it the "regular" along with a frosty mug of that Keiths that you seem to like so well. Not a bad brew, but surely would taste much better sitting up in the dome car of a Via Rail train heading to the Maritimes, eh[?] Sorry if that brings a tear to your eye, Mate, nearly forgot about the demise of those fine trains on that run. However, the brew's good![swg]

Hey, that's a killer site your sweetie found for you, BK, just chock full o' pix for future
use. I'll be checking that one out meself.[tup]

I noticed one of the "intellects" back again on our Forum with more of the same crap. One day ... nah, cool it, chill and let it go.<urge to inflict hurt>

I'll just settle back over here in the corner and check out what' s in the papers today. Pretty much same stuff, huh[?] When is the real paper coming out - ya know, the Gazette[?] Now that's a better read anytime.[tup]

Don't forget I'm here Tom - in fact, I'll just roll the empty bottle your way when I need another! Class, huh[?]

Lars

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Hey, I see you over there, Lars! Hang in there, we've got plenty more where that Keiths came from![swg]

Good to see you and BK come through the doors this fine day. Would've otherwise been a dull Thrusday. Looks as if the Fish 'n Chips is going to be somewhat of a problem for our typical 5 PM [dinner] seatring. How many portions can you handle, Lars[?][swg]

Nice work with the Pix, Bk and don't sweat the small stuff! The "policy" is to keep Pix for our Sunday Photo Posting Day!, with the exception of one or two "here or there." Good supplement to the Euro RRs!! [tup][tup]

Okay, Gents, I'm going to resume my "neutral" stance until we get some "action" around here.[swg]

Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of the usual and a round for whoevers in please. Of course Fish and Chips later
( see note to Nick)

ROB I have found an excellent web-site on the CO-BO diesels. As the diesels were phased out at about the same time as steam was finishing on BR and the class had been banished to the North West of England which was the last area for steam they were a bit ignored. Fortunately one was kept for various uses ( like stationary train heating) and is being restored.
On the site at the bottom of the first page you can get an article from The Railway Magazine when the locos were new. The site is great for anyone interested in an odd diesel classes. It is
http://www.wheaty.co.uk/D5705/

NICK I hope you can shake off the dreaded lurgi. H&H's Fish 'n' Chips are not a patch on yours but dont tell them I said that.[:-^].

DOUG Thanks for the Zephyr article. The writing was on the wall for steam when the diesel-electrics got established. By the way what was the word in the article that got bleeped out[?].

CM3 thanks for the N&W info[tup].

LARS I felt the same when I was honoured with the Reserved Stool this really is a special place[^][tup].

TOM Another great Railways of Europe [tup][tup][tup], and thanks BK for the photos I really like the one with the different loco front ends[tup].

The ICE are impressive trains it must have taken a lot of work to get the existing lines up to standard for them. The Magnetic brakes must sure be powerful to effect the lineside equipment[wow]. I wonder if they effected anyones watches on the train.[?].

The mention of the de-railment in 1998 just shows how time flies by it dosen't seem 8 years ago, of course it was the head-line news on the BBC at the time. It is so unfortunate that the wheel failed so near a bridge.
I wonder if the new line opening in 2007 will allow Eurostars to run a direct service from England to Germany through the Channel Tunnel[?].

Yes Tom I feel fortunate I was able to grow up in a time when the traditional values were still in place. I think the train sets over here were a lot more advanced at the time with smoke sounds etc. than the ones we had but they were all wonderful [^] PETE.

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Tom and all.. Round of the usual...JB on the rocks

Tom, you've not been to Barstow in a while have you? you would not recgonize it with all the urban sprawl, still should be on some countries targeting list just the same(LOL).

Quiz?? 9:00PM last night? Sorry, I was asleep in my Lazy Boy by that hour. Where am I?

Pwolf..I too recall that wreck, i've seen site photos of the end results, taken by the first responders and post crash investigators as part of a accident investigation course I had to complete. The knowlege gained from the post crash investigation enabled Amtrak to detect wheel cracks on the new Accela's before history could repeat itself .

I see that Al and Tom are maintaing the standrd of par excellence passenger coverage, what I wouldn't give to return to the days of the Heavyweight Pullman!! The new technology just doesn't push my buttons, I perfer to olgle something more attractive then my refrigerator!!! As they say, "To each there own".

Ok about time for a SP motive power review to liven Thursday up a bit .

The rise and fall of the General Electirc U33C on the Southern Pacific .

As EMD gained market shares with the SD45, GE was left wanting and smarting that SP had shifted loyalty, a loyality that dated back to the Alco PA's and U25B. SP shunned all current GE offerings in it's desire to carry out it's longer, heavier, fewer units per train concept. and the SD45 was THAT engine to the tune that SP ammased three hundred and twenty four of them in various configurations.

As great as the SD45 was, there were some shortcomings, shortcomings GE intended to exploit to their advantage. The 45 was a thristy beast, overheating was experienced in snowsheds and tunnels, sometimes the flaired radiators would come into contact with tunnel walls, rendering a unit inoperable. GE Designed the U33C to avoid these problems. Weight, horsepower and tractive effort were the equivelent to the 45, the four cycle FDL prime mover proimised decent fuel consumption and the radiator intake was located near the walkway to draw unspolied air when used in tunnels and snowsheds.
SP took a trial set and indeed they did well in fuel consumption, the large capacity traction motors were most appreciated and maintaince cycles were similar to the 45, however, SP had doubts as to the durability and longtivity of the prime mover, but with credit incentives equaling a 3-1 replacement value, agreed to two hundered and twelve units against the wishes of the mechanical department.

The mechanical departments mis-givens were bourne out soon after they entered service, they did not take well to the Donner and Shasta route, such severe service caused pistons and cranks to fail, and oil control issues. SP could not afford surprises on these demanding grades and profiles. SP blamed GE for a defective design, GE blamed SP for improperly using the locomotives. After tempers had cooled a bit, GE agreed to study the problem, this infuraited SP to the point that it would be over a decade before another GE would be placed.

Immediently they were banished to the Sunset route, it became common for dispatchers and train crews to refuse the U33C's units if they ventured north of Sacramento. The tough shasta and Donners routes would be ruled by the products of EMD. After cycling through the shops, they perfomed within bare acceptable performance margins out of Colton, joining other members of the GE oddball fleet. Maintaince cost became excessive after only a couple of years, the prime mover issues were never fully resolved , thus they became prime targets for storage during business slowdowns , victims of being marginal performers as SP considered all GE products by the early seventies.

Very rarely would they be awakened from their slumber as the seventies rolled by, stored in Oakland at first and then moved in mass to the "Bull Ring " in Los Angeles's Taylor Yard , the units were at the mercy of vandals and the elements all but forgotten. Someone once again took notice of them in the late seventies, perhaps there was a way to make them perform using technology not availble when built, in the end this idea too was abandoned as too expensive and time consuming, the units once again returned to the storage lines, the U33C was stricken from the SP roster along with all early U boats by the mid eighties as trade in for newer EMD products.

Dave

[siberianmo]

Good Evening Gents!

Well, it appears that Lars has departed. I think the man enjoyed Keiths![swg]

A couple of more customers a few more "rings" for Tilla the Hun 'n The Cashinator![swg] Good to see ya, Pete 'n Dave!

It does seem like just the other day when ICE suffered that terrible tragedy. The "things" that can happen usually do, just a matter of time.

I would hope that Eurostar from GB to Germany will be a reality. Why not[?] In this era of the Euro Union, etc., it makes pure sense to me. Trains to cities within 300 or so miles from one another is much more practical than using aircraft. Seems that Europe is way ahead of North America in that regard.

Dave Mine was "tongue in cheek" moreso than anything else. Last trip to Barstow was back in '88, as in 1988 as opposed to 1888![swg]

Don't know what you've been seeing on these pages, but Al has been AWOL for some time. Last we heard he was under the weather - but then resurfaced elsewhere. I've seen him doing the "Phantom Browse," but that's bee it .... Once again, you've confused the Proprietor.

The information on the GE U33Cs should "flick" a switch or two 'round here.[tup] Always liked the "U boats" but really never got into the motive power aspect of any loco. Shows my shallowness, eh[?]

Thanx for the rounds, Gents! We're building up a "stash" for the Birthday Bash! this Monday!

Later![tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[West Coast S]

Tom, As I posted where is I? Great job Tom just the same. Glad you enjoyed the GE history.

SP had far more admiration for the U25B to the point of possible inclusion into the GRIP program (General rehabilatation and improvement) Sacramento and Roseville remanfactured thousands of Geeps of all breeds and age and the SD7 and 9 fleet over a fifteen year period , such units served until UP takeover and serve yet for new owners. Sadly ,they chose to outsource the U25B upgrades to Morrison Knudson which installed Swiss built Sultzer power plants under a revised long hood, only four were so converted and they emerged in revised Daylight colors to a rousing discord among SP officials who considered the Sultzer power plants complete junk.

First runs proved that the Sultzer was incapable of the demands required of American railroads, they never did enter regular service and no others were so converted. SP was in good company, neither Santa Fe or Union Pacific had any better luck with the Sultzer and soon they vanished as well.

SP had the foresite to draft a refusal clause, leaving MK stuck with the units, MK in turn stuck GE with the units, they were worthless in the resell market and GE tucked them away at it's Oakland plant until a decision as to their future could be reached. They remain there to this day, UP pulled the plant tracks several years ago, marooning the units, GE wants them off the property but is unwilling to pay UP to reinstall the connection.

Three of the four are considered beyond salvation as GE stripped them to the bone, theives have removed the wiring and lit fires in the cabs and weather has also been at work, the fourth my have a brighter future as attempts are being made to move this almost intact unit off the property for restoration and preservation. Time will tell if those involved are sucessfull or will this unique adventure and failure be forgotten.

Dave

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and friends! I'll have my usual bottomless draught please, and allow me to buy a round for the faithful. Interesting series on the "ICE" capt. Tom and it was also great to see pix from BK! [CM3] had a nice N&W article, and Dave typed up two fine segments on SP motive power! I'd say we have a lot of good information fying around the bar today [tup]

Oh yeah, Pete, the word that got bleeped from my joke was ***

(heh heh) ... here's part II fo my Zephyr article:

The Burlington Zephyrs – March 1937 Railroad Stories

The second trailing car of the Denver Zephyrs and the first one of the Twin Zephyrs are fitted up with this cocktail lounge.


The three-car Twin Zephyrs which were inaugurated between Chicago and the Twin Cities on April 21, 1935, are now operating elsewhere. One is known as the Sam Houston Zephyr, and makes a daily round trip of 566 miles between Fort Worth, Dallas and Houston, Texas, at an average speed of 57 miles an hour. The other is the Ozark State Zephyr, running from St. Louis to Kansas City and back, 558 miles, also at an average speed of 57 miles an hour. Both weigh 112 ½ tons, use a 660-horsepower Diesel engine.

To take their place the Burlington operates two new seven-car Twin Zephyrs, each of which makes a daily 882-mile round trip between Chicago and Minneapolis at an average speed of 66.3 miles an hour. Weighing about 330 tons apiece and powered by 1800-horsepower Diesel engines, they have 170 saleable seats. They provide the last word in day train luxury, with coaches that are equal of the parlor cars of yore in comfort and superior in looks, a cocktail lounge, and unbelievably beautiful dining car, and an inter-car telephone system to make diner inter-car phone to reserve diner seats.
The largest, longest and most complete Zephyrs are two twelve-car trains recently put in service between Chicago and Denver. Westbound they cove 1034 miles in 16 hours flat, and eastbound, 1039 miles in 15 hours and 40 minutes. Their two motive power cars contain an 1800 and a 1200-horsepower Diesel unit; and each entire train weighs 628 ½ tons.

These larger Zephyrs, incidentally, will probably show about the same operating costs as a comparable steam train; and because of their high purchase price and maintenance may well be more expensive in the long run. But they travel long distances without stopping for water, and that means greater average speeds.


Hmmm ...... that wasn't long enough to make-up for 20-fingers not being here soooooooo

Hoodoo Engine by E.C. Huffsmith – June 1936 Railroad Stories



Number 107 was scrapped nearly 28 years ago, but even today the old-timers talk about her. They call her the hoodoo, the killer, the deadliest engine on the old Denver & Rio Grande. No more, thank God, does she travel the winding road through Gunnison Canyon, the walls of which echoed time and again with the shriek of her whistle and the clang of her bell. No longer does Death sit at her throttle, as he did, guiding at least a dozen members of her train and engine crews and scores of passengers into Eternity. No longer do rails shudder at the prospect of taking out the hoodoo on a dangerous run.

Even at the start the 107 was ill-fated. The clang of her bell was the tolling of a funeral knell. No. 107 was one of three narrow-gage, anthracite-burning engines that were ordered for the Rio Grande in the late eighties. She was the first put into service on the run between Grand Junction and Gunnison, Colo. G.A. Lathrop, the Gunnison story writer, remembers her. So does his father, Lewis R. Lathrop, who was in D.&R.G. engine service more than half a century.

The first hogger to take her out on an unlucky trip was Bill Duncan. They left Grand Junction at night and were well on the way to Gunnison when an accident occurred. It was pitch dark. They failed to see that part of a bridge had been washed away. Both men perished, together with nobody knows how many passengers.

The engine was salvaged. Some of the enginemen hesitated to take her out again, but this fear was laid to pure superstition, and Engineer Godfrey was not afraid. It was a beautiful starlit evening. Godfrey’s friends said later he had a premonition of impending disaster. Between Escalante and Dominguez a huge boulder rolled across the track, right in the 107’s path! The collision was terrible. It killed Godfrey, his fireman, and several passengers.

After that, even the non-superstitious rails fought shy of the 107. The feeling that she was a hoodoo grew alarmingly. But there was always somebody willing to try again. Engineer Bratt took her out on a clear, cold, wintry night less than three months afterward, on the same run. Between Sapinero and Curecanti, in the canyon of the Gunnison, she encountered a heavy snow-slide. The engine turned turtle. As usual, both engineer and fireman were killed. It was thought, but never definitely proved, that some passengers perished also.

When the 107 was hauled back into yards at Grand Junction, men looked upon her scarred sides with horror. Local call boys experienced much difficulty in finding crews for her, so the 107 was transferred to a western run, between Salt Lake City and Ogden. At least three accidents occurred while she was in service there.

By this time her reputation as a killer had spread over the entire railroad; most of the men in engine service refused to touch the 107. Again she was transferred, this time to the run out of Alamosa, where she added several more engineers and firemen to her growing death list.

Finally, the men positively rebelled at taking out the dread 107, so in 1908 the D.&R.G. officials were obliged to scrap her. Gingerly she was taken to Burnham station, and to the boneyard. Even there the rails gave her a wide berth at night, and many were the tales told of grim spectral figures seated in her dilapidated cab or hovering over the last resting-place of dead engines.

Yes, sir, the 107 was a hoodoo if ever there was one. It is hard to find another that can beat her grim record.

[:I] A man follows a woman with a parrot out of a movie theater. He stops her and says, "I'm sorry to bother you, but I couldn't help but notice that your bird seemed to understand the movie. He cried at the right spots, he was fidgeting in his seat during the boring parts and he laughed at jokes. Don't you find that unusual?"
"I do indeed," she answered. "He hated the book." [:I]

[siberianmo]

Evening Gents!

Doug Another visit, eh[?][tup] Another joke![tdn][swg] Actually, I should mention that Awk enjoyed it!<grin>

Dave I haven't the foggiest what in the world to make of your comments these days (daze). Somewhere along the line it appears you've dropped off the train. Sorry, but that's it from me. Adios!

Leon the Night Man now has the bar!

Boris RIng the bell and Leon set 'em up![tup]

Catch y'all in the AM . . . .

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

[bday] 2006 BIRTHDAY WATCH LIST [bday]
(rev. Mar 9th):

March 5th (Nick – 46)
March 13th (Doug – 50) NEXT UP on Monday, Mar 13th!! at 2 PM (Central)
March 31st (Lars – 66) NEXT UP – combined “Bash” w/Doug
April 18th (Al - 64)
May 18th (Tom - 68)
May 27th (Dave - 47)
July 30th (Russell – 35)
August 11th (Pete – 55
August 16th (Ted – 68)
September 8th (Rob - 35)
October 18th (BK – 66)
December 29th (CM3 – 60)


Not on the list [?] Send me an Email with your birth date (month-day-year). Corrections too!


Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



NOTE for all: Check the SUMMARIES!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon, I'll have a Keith's if Lars left any that is[:D][;)] oh and a round for those left standing as well,we've got to keep Tilla and Cash happy donchaknow[:D]

Tom Great info on the ICE trains today,keeps some flow going around here. I remember that horrible crash back in 1998 as well,was all over our local news for days as well.Those two part wheels were designed by Siemens for their streetcars,guess somebody thought that they would be cheaper,than to use properly designed wheels for the train.[:(] I know that vibration and passenger comfort were two of the reasons why the 2 part wheel was originally installed, but good lord someone should have put their foot down and insisted on the proper wheels to satrt with.Give the riders credit though, once the trains were back in service the passengers flocked back to them,one wonders if a similar thing happened over here if that would be the case.



I'm glad that the index was of some use for you,not to worry i shall continue to post it occationally as new info gets added to it.

Doug Nice info on the Zephers, the jokes not so good[:0][tdn] We may have gotten our first negative reading on the groanameter, Boris hit make sure the guage is not stuck ! Keep the storeis comming though they have all been interesting reads.

BK Great pictures sir [tup] Don't sweat the post timing of them either, they are right on target for Tom's topic of the day.I'm glad to see you on the Bucket [tup] I'm sure that we will see many new pictures from you in the comming sunday's [^] Thank your better half for that website as well, a keeper for sure. [tup]

Lars Hey glad that you're enjoying the Keith's. You are right though they would be better served real and in person while travelling at high speed < insert laugh track here > along the VIA lines in all Budd, dome car encrusted trains.[tup][:p]

Dave Somewhat confusing day eh [?] Great info on the U boats though [tup] I've always liked the U line of locomotives from GE, haven't liked anything since mind you,give me a decent Alco anyday, but I digress. Have you picked up a copy of Greg Macdonnels Uboats book, great info and pictures ther as well[:D][^]

Pete Thanks for that website, they were an oddity weren't they. There have been many an oddball diesel built over here as well. Some with as successfull a run as those ones. The BL2 jumds to mind.The original ugly duckling, not truly a cab unit not truly a hood unit, a mis match of both,railfans loved them , railroaders hated them.

CM3 Goodday to you sir. Great info on the NW passenger trains, with Al out indefinatly [?] it's good to see that some passenger trains are still making it into the mix. [tup] I'm thinking that if Tom uses the NW as next tuesday's theme that you will have reams of info to share [tup]

Leon anothetr Kieths if you will, I seem to have Nicks bottle with the hole in it.[:p][;)]

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening still.

Tom Thanks for the understanding as tomwhy I'm post so little so late. On the upside the work is done accept for some new quarterround to be installed to finish up the trim.[:D] It has been time consuming , but it looks a whole lot better.

Here's another installment from my small collection of Ad's.

CLASSIC AD'S # 5 SUPERCONTINENTAL

This is a fairly common print ad from the 50's, highlighting CNR's at the time new Super Continental Passenger train

enjoy Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again.too much coffe or too much breathing of paint fumes but I'm still awake.[B)][:(] I notice that quite a bit of the useless fluff posting is happening on our forum again tonight [tdn][:(!] , hopefully no one will feed them < won't hold my breath >Anyway another Classic ad for you folks, this one is a 1941 CNR / GTR ad espousing their joint passenger train operations / services . Enjoy Rob

CLASSIC AD'S # 6 CNR / GTR PASSENGER SERVICE

[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM (all times zones!). (Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


Good Friday Morning! Start the day with a cup of freshly brewed coffee, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast![tup]


Repeat: Birthday Bash! scheduled for Monday, March 13th at 2 PM (Central) Combined party for barndad Doug ‘n LoveDomes Lars


Repeat: If anyone would like to “host” a St. Patrick’s Day Party! March 17th, let me know! The time is up to whoever “hosts” it. I’m not sure that I’ll be available. NO takers, no party.


Daily Wisdom

If you don’t set goals, you can’t regret not reaching them.”[swg]
(yogi-ism)


Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear: Southern Railway (SOU) arrives next Tuesday! This will be the THEME for the DAY!

* Weekly Calendar:

TODAY: Pizza Nite! & Steak ‘n Fries Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 03:53:04 (269) Pike Perspective’s, etc.

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 05:26:52 (269) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 05:32:54 (269) Rwys of Europe announcement!

(4) barndad Doug Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 05:35:12 (269) AM visit & Burlington Zephyrs, Part I

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 09:24:57 (269) Acknowledgments, etc.

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 09:30:58 (269) CM3 AM visit, N&W, etc.

(7) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 10:17:15 (269) The AM Lars Report!

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 11:01:47 (270) RRs of Europe – ICE Train of Germany

(9) BudKarr BK Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 13:51:48 (270 BK Report & Pix![tup]

(10) BudKarr BK Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 13:57:22 (270) P.S. from BK

(11) LoveDomes Lars Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 15:00:58 (270) The Lars Report!

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 16:47:03 (270) Acknowledgments, etc.

(13) pwolfe Pete Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 16:58:51 (270) Pete’s PM Post!

(14) West Coast S Dave Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 18:22:43 (270) PM Post, SP’s GE U33C!

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 19:04:25 (270) Acknowledgments, etc.

(16) West Coast S Dave Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 19:32:32 (270) Motive power

(17) barndad Doug Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 19:53:39 (270) Burlington Zephyr, Part II & Joke

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 21:16:06 (270) Nite!

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 21:21:10 (270) B’day Watch List

(20) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 23:26:52 (270) Inclusive Post, etc.

(21) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 09 Mar 2006, 23:35:08 (270) More!

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 10 Mar 2006, 00:41:21 (270) and, more!



NOW SHOWING:

The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre
Double Features! Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 5th thru 11th: North to Alaska (1960) starring: John Wayne, Stewart Granger & Capucine – and – Lost in Alaska (1952) starring: Bud Abbott & Lou Costello. Short: A Pain in the Pullman (1936).

Coming Attractions:
Now with The Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, March 12th thru 18th: Mystery Alaska (1999) starring: Russell Crowe, Hank Azaria & Mary McCormack –and- Slap Shot (1977) starring: Paul Newman – Strother Martin & Michael Ontkean. SHORT: Beer and Pretzels (1933).


That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


SOMETHING SPECIAL WILL BE POSTED

THIS MORNING – WATCH FOR IT!


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]

[siberianmo]

For anyone using PhotoBucket . . . .

You may wi***o check your Posts where Pix have been included. PhotoBucket has been less than dependable lately, as many Pix are not being displayed.

Suggest you send them an Email inquiry. I have, twice, with no response. (And mine is a paid subscription!!) I'm thinking serioiusly of returning to RailImages - not quite as "user friendly," but much more reliable.

For what it's worth . . . [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[LoveDomes]

Good Morning Tom and Gents at the bar!

Two successive days of a morning visit! No, it's not going to be my routine.[swg] However, just wanted you and whoever may be interested, that I will be here on Monday. Issue resolved.[tup] Let the Birthday Bash! planning continue!![tup]

That's disturbing news regarding Photo Bucket. I had noticed, from time to time, that some pix were not being displayed and were replaced by a Photo Bucket "blurb." Wondered what that was all about. Kind of bothers me, but then again, it's free - and as they say, one gets what one pays for![swg] Ooooooops, YOU are paying[?] Sorry, 'bout that! And you have quite a bunch of stuff with them, huh[?]

Ok, I'm going to have some breakfast - a traditional breakfast if you please. Number 3 from the menu board, over easy with the eggs, will do. Buy the guys some OJ on me, ok[?][swg]

Looking forward to your "surprise!"[tup]


Until the next time!

Lars