Trains.com

"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD! Locked

1275405 views
9013 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:29 PM
Big ditto for West Coast S Dave Perhaps we need to form a Rat's Patoot Club within the framework of "Our" Place! [tup]

By the way, the mere reading or sound of Penn Central tightens my jowls! [tdn] An abomination, I tell ya - an absolute railroad tragedy.

I need a brew, a very large and bottomless brew .......

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:40 PM
Ah, just in time for "last call." Please just an Anisette on the rocks for a night cap. I'm caught up on the panic house "work detail." Tom, this is my second eldest Nephew. The American Flyer orphan is the the eldest. Strangely, the two younger of the three, never took a remote interest in model R.R.ing. I was away in the service during their youthful years, so couldn't guide them along.

I found the exchange between Dave and Tom compelling. It is terribly depressing to witness once regal passenger service and equipment slowly degenerate into disuse and finally, abuse. I realize all things must "go the way of all flesh," however, I believe the R.R.'s got a really "raw deal" post W.W. I and II. The multi billion dollar Interstate Programs initiated by Eisenhower (Robert Moses) and huge subsidies for the airlines and airports after America's R.R's had exhausted their resources on "the war effort;" sealed their doom (passenger). The Industry was still paying paralyzing taxes on every foot of their right-of-way while forced to serve uneconomic routes (mail contracts), then the labor union disputes delivered the final coup de grace.[soapbox] The Federal Gov.t's gratitude was free multi lane, limited access hiways coast to coast so cars, trucks and buses could match or beat R.R. time schedules. Let's don't blame the private R.R. owners for submitting to those kind of odds.

Great discussions at "Our" Place, on or...[#offtopic] Okay Leon, clang the bell. Lucky for me there is just the town drunk left here and old Marlow is sound asleep.[zzz] G'Night all, Ted
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: New Mexico <Red Chilli>
  • 259 posts
Posted by Gunns on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:21 PM
Hi all,
Coffee and pastrey for me, Just got up, and am otw to work. I'll read the summerys, and get back to Ya'll after rounds at work. One photo.....
http://www.railimages.com/gallery/kevinevans/abd
Gunns
http://www.nmslrhs.org/
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:30 PM
Good evening All Just time for a quick Crown Royal with water back and a round for the house. A special thanks to trolleyby for the tip he gave me sometime ago on the Candaian Trackside Guide from Bytown. Finally received my copy yesterday in the mail and have been completely absorbed in the book ever since. Best $25.00 i have spent in a long time on a publication with so much information that peaks my particular interest.
Tom They even have a PARK car for sale through VIAS asset disposal. Actually it is the former D&RGW SILVER SKY they bought to convert to HEP and just set it aside. This car featured a shower in the drawing room annex something the Park cars were never built with. Of course neither was the SILVER SKY orignally equipped with the shower in the Drawing Room annex it was added later. I have ridden SILVER SKY when it was operated in the RIO GRANDE ZEPHYR and the Bedrooms and Drawing room were taken apart while in this service but all of the easily assembled parts were shipped to Canada with the car when it was sold to VIA. Tom that would be nicer than an RDC to own. Don't know what kind of shape it would be in but would be interesting to find out. Well will close for now I am going to bury myself in the book again.
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:45 PM
Good evening fellows.leon i will grab a harps a pull up my stool next to Ted he seems to stoll be semi concious.Dave & Tom wonderfull stuff on the rebuilding and paint jobs.[tup]I'm glad you mentioned the CF7's, not a prettyy site to be sure but look at all the extra milage they managed to pull out of those old F's, some are still going today.Just shows th ingenuity of the rail shops. I remember CN & CP's mass rebuilds of the GP9's up here as well, most units are still with us 50+ years on. Both CDN roads have the largest ( original GP fleets still intact from purchase ) Who can forget the mass rebuildinds og GP's and early SD's by the Paducah shops of ICG fame.Lots of the GP8 & 10 units they turned out still in shortline service today,I see two or three of the EX SP GP9's that ICG rebuilt to GP10's up hear on alocal shortline handling a steel slab train!Coalminer I grew up with CN predominantly, their line to the Port weller dry docks ran through the back 40 of my grade school and through the subdivision I lived in. Yup mid 70's to late 80's it wasn't uncommon to see the wierd CN power pulling the steel plate and rolls and the occational boiler to the drydocks. HH RS18's.HH GP9's ( before the Pt ST Charles rebuilds ) even GMD1's and s13's. Of coarse all these freioght spurs in St Catharines were inherited by CN when they absorbed the NS&T electric territories in 1960 and dieselized them. A hint as to why I'm found of the juice. ( Take note Tom some of the back story you wanted a while back ) In fact most of the street rail in West st Catharines (Merriton) and Thorold still lope along on 90lbs girder rail in places. Interesting to note that the short line that handles the switching there now uses the same ex CN S13's for the locals,and yes they still pull an old Pte St Charles caboose along with them ( city bylaw must have a tail end crew to guard street crossings ) CP lives in Welland and Niagara falls not far from my original home town as well so I'm a closet CP fan as well ( these lines are of coarse the old TH&B lines )Research and family history and general love of history and all things old sucked me into the vortex of the ekectric lines in Ontario and to a lessor extent the rest of the country and the US.As an aside even if you are not a trolley fan persay, grab a copy of Great Lakes trolley's from morning sun books. It covers all the major great lake boardering systems both side of the boarder. Lots of good NS&T, TTC, Cleveland , Chicago yuou name it good stuff. [tup][:D] The second reason I lovethe electrics was my great uncle Wilf. He was an NS&T employee ( hired on in 1940 )He was a car maintenance guy.after the 1960 closing down of the electric system he finished his days fixing busses for St Catharines transit. Got a tour of the original ST Catharines Welland Ave Bus barns which in their heyday were the main repair facility for the NS&T. Too bad they were torn down in the early 80's when St Catharines transit built a new bus facility[tdn] It was a beautiful turn of the century ( last one ) brick carbarn.The final nail in my traction coffin was meeting my lovely wife and her family who as a family have been invloved at the museum since 1972. I can't say I was dragged kicking and screaming, the chance at actualling operating a vintage streetcar was a no brainer.Mom and dad hated taking me to Toronto when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's cause I'd always want to ride the streetcars and subway.So Tom there you have it the condenced why of why I'm such a "juice head" anywho catch everyone tomorrow. Rob
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: New Mexico <Red Chilli>
  • 259 posts
Posted by Gunns on Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:36 AM
Hi all.

Finally got done with first rounds, and can duck in for a coffee. Right now Wends are like "doing a double" I spent all morning at the restoration site, and now am at a 10 hr shift at work. Work was good today at the 2926, with real progress on many fronts. Only one pic for here, <saving the rest for Trollyboys shop area <G> this is our CMO Ken and Travis, doing the inspection of the Emergency shut off valve <Fuel> valve seat.
http://www.railimages.com/gallery/kevinevans/abe

Now for the 2926,
Note My information come mostly from the Wheels museum org here in Albuqueque, and can be found in its entirety at http://www.wheelsmuseum.org/stagner.html

LLOYD E. STAGNER, 63, completes his coverage of modern Santa Fe steam power for TRAINS in this issue with articles on its 4-8-4s and 2-8-4s; he reported the system's 4-64s and 2-10-4s in our June 1985 and August 1975 issues, respectively. He spent 1942-1979 in the operating and information systems departments of the AT&SF (excepting three years in the U.S. Army during World War II), retiring as supervisory freight agent. Stagner has written two books for Pruett Publishing, Steam Locomotives of the Frisco Line (1975) and Rock Island Motive Power 1933-1955 (1980).



the 2900 series Locomotives were the last and newest Dual duty locos bought by the AT&SF. The 3751 class were bought in 1928 and were the second set of "Northerns" <4-8-4s> bought by any one. Santa Fe liked them so much that they eventually bought 3 seprate class of them ending up with the 2900s <30 of them> with the delivery of the 2900 in 1943, and ending the delivery of the 2929 in 1944 <Builders numbers 69787 to 69817 by Baldwin>. Concurrent with them was the order of the 5030 class of Texans, 2-10-4s freight locos but the 2900s were the last ones delivered. Inital duitys for the 2900s was high priority freight and troop trains during WW II, on the Argintine - Clovis run, A quote from the Wheels artical...
" Some evidence of how the 4-8-4's were helping to win the war is gleaned from locomotive mileage and repair costs for September 1944. The 30 2900's averaged 9056 miles per engine and cost 15.08 cents per mile to maintain. This was very good mileage for predominately freight service at a time of slow schedules and maximum tonnage. The 14 3751's assigned between Kansas City and Los Angeles, via Amarillo, averaged 15,033 miles and cost 28 cents a mile to maintain. Eleven 3765's in the K.C.-L.A. passenger pool, two of which were assigned via Amarillo, averaged 17,652 miles and had a repair cost of 29.43 cents per mile, and the 10 3776's assigned between La Junta and Los Angeles, but frequently operating to Kansas City, ran an average of 14,185 miles at a cost of 33.12 cents per mile."

In Aug. of 1945 the 2926 was assinged to Passenger service on trains No.s 1and 2 <west bound I think> and 23 - 24 <East bound> between KC and LA

In 1946 the 2900s finally got thier rollerbering side rods and in 1947 they got thier ATS allowing 100 MPH speeds on the Santa Fe "Race track"

The 2900s were taken out of regular service for passengers in 1953 with som remaining in freight service untill the end of 1953.

Gunns

http://www.nmslrhs.org/
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:54 AM
THURSDAY’s SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS (edited)

Good Morning! Thursday means Fish ‘n Chips nite ‘round here. Don’t know what’s on tap from our Interim Chief Chef, Ted, but I’m sure it will be a winner! [tup]

Thought it might be a good time to remind our customers of the basics regarding food service at ”Our” Place

…Sunday – CLOSED
…Monday thru Saturday: Light breakfasts – bakery goods from The Mentor Village Bakery and sandwiches all day long made from the freshest lunchmeats in the county along with freshly baked bread for the grinders/hoagies/heros/subs……
....NO evening meals Monday thru Wednesday.
…Thursday: Fish ‘n Chips nite and Nick’s Picks or whatever our Interim Chief Chef conjures up!.
…Friday: Pizza nite – steak ‘n fries and…….
…Saturday: Steak ‘n fries and ……..

Birthday Bash for Trainnut484 Russell is this Saturday at 7:30 PM CDST (Central time)

SUMMARY time again… as always, limited smilies, graphics and pix …..

QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 07:57:36

All of our regulars know about the Birthday Watch List .... however, it needs to be posted repeatedly, just as a reminder regarding who is coming up next for the Birthday Bash ......

2005 BIRTHDAY WATCH LIST (rev. July 27th):

February 2nd (Kevin – 49)
March 5th (Nick – 45)
April 18 (Al - 63)
May 18th (Tom - 67)
May 27th (Dave - 46)
June 24th (Dan - 43)
July 15th (*** – 65)
July 25th (Chris - 51)
July 30th (Russell – 34) Next up! 7:30 PM CDST
August 16th (Ted - 67) 8 PM, EDST
September 8th (Rob - 34)

Not on the list [?] Send me an Email with your birth date (month-day-year).
Corrections too!

Tom

NOTE for all: Check the SUMMARIES


QUOTE: coalminer3
Posted: 27 July 2005, 10:24:23

Good Morning All: Coffee and on my way...enjoyed trip to opthamologist this a.m. Everything checked out O.K. so we we're good to go a little longer. Weather report here is more of the same; heat and humidity. Wish I were on that train to northern Michigan. I had somebody ask me what the temperature was underground. It's usually 52-55 degrees here, damp, and basically the same winter and summer.

Here's something to get our readers up and going. From the posts, it seems that we have a wide range of rrs of interest to our visitors. Which rr(s) got you interested in trains?

There were four where I grew up; Boston and Albany, Central Vermont, New Haven, and Boston and Maine. These are not in any rank order.

By the way, if any of you are still looking for RDC (and lots of classic) material, Google Friends of Bedford Depot, and enjoy. The site also has a lot of information abt. 2-foot gauge rrs in that part of the world. This is an interesting group which is doing a lot of preservation/restoration work. Some of the color photos are fascinating; I relived a lot of my childhood viewing them.

We'll close with a bit of recommended reading. It's a new book on the SP titled The Sunset Route; a most interesting take which undoes a lot of the mythology surrounding the SP.

work safe


QUOTE: Theodorebear
Posted: 27 July 2005, 10:39:54

Hi everybody, A Beefeater's Gin and Tonic w/a twist, if you please. My Nephew is in town and here tomorrow. Today, is "cleaning day!" [Aside] Tom, sorta like an I.G. Inspection. That panic sort of "tidying up" is when you can't find anything for 2 weeks after the visit. SOOoo, I can't stay long, I'm on a short break just now.

There was no Kemper Arena when I lived in K.C., just miles of covered cattle chutes that spanned the streets and avenues, etc. Cudahay, Swift, Armour and Wilson (among others) were the big meat processors back then. The 1951 Missouri River flood "took out" everything including the "Ox" The American Royal Pavilion was still intact. Its all changed from those former days due to the I-States, new building, etc. Russell, glad you approve of the menu. Yes, there will be the traditional "lady in the cake." Cindy won't be available, however, Lucy has condescended to do the "honors" this time.

Tom, I think 8 pm ESDT should be convenient on August 16th (Tuesday). I may have to forgo the "lady in the cake" at my "Bash" The gals just aren't keen on the mess that goes with it. Something to do with Boris licking his fingers for more. Okay, I gotta' went, too much to do, too little time to do it. Aufwiedersehen you's guys. Ted


QUOTE: CFournier
Posted: 27 July 2005, 11:18:49

Good day all, Coffee please,
I had a nice party thanks to you guys, and a special thank you to Tom for all his efforts to keep me in touch with this nice bunch of fellow railfans. I tried to be there as much as I could with this **** connection AOL...
Will be switching to Sympatico soon. Happy birthday to Russell in advance.
See you later, and as the guy says in the Red-Green show: Keep your stick on the ice...
Chris


QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 12:43:54

G'day coalminer 3 Exasperation! Just lost a couple of paragraphs in reply ..... [censored][banghead]

Today was also Doctor day for me .... got a good to go as well.

Has anyone else noticed that the phrase good to go is getting quite a bit of overuse by TV commercials these days[?] I have an airline pilot friend who has used this phrase many times over the years and it makes sense coming from him. Given the checks and rechecks these guys go through in their professions, it makes sense. Buying fast food, however ......

Early railroad fascination for me began in the 1940's when my grandfather used to take me to Pennsylvania and Grand Central Stations in NYC. The PRR and NYC were my two favorites simply because those were the ones we got to travel aboard - for the fun of it. As I entered adolescence, the B&O entered the picture. As a young adult, the NH and B&M. All of those roads to this day occupy very special places in my aging memory banks. PRR is number one, and GG1's rule!

I checked out that site, Friends of Bedford Depot, and it's amazing how much stuff can be included in those cyber places. Thanx!

Tom


QUOTE: West Coast S
Posted: 27 July, 12:56:20

Morning Tom and the gang...Coffee please, Trolleyboy you are correct that the BN rebuilt a few GP30s and GP20s in the 80s before terminating the program due to cost. Both were brought up to GP40-2 standards if I remember correctly.
645 power assemblies and dash 2 specific wiring and modular boards were the major improvements. Back in the 80s it was common to see SF GP-20s and 30s working as lead power just about anywhere on the SF. I once encountered a GP30 set powering the Southwest Chief over Cajon Pass, with the usual F40s missing from the ranks. I've always wondered what they did for head end power in a situation like this.

Now the SF SD26s were impressive conversions, I had the pleasure of a private tour of the San Bernadino shops where they receiving final attention prior to being placed in service. A favorite photo of mine was taken that same afternoon, a four exposure series of wide angle shots of 12 SD26s sitting in the A yard, so fresh, my light meter was useless for automatic exposure!

The El Segundo local made its p rounds today, unusual, they normally work on Tuesdays and Fridays. Power was the usual UP GP50/MP15 setup. I have a second SF GP30 sitting to report, this time two blocks from the house in the company of several GP38s. With the Alameda Corridor this line has been dormant of all through traffic for over three years, BNSF uses the line for storage of surplus .

Well guess I’d better get some work done today, I've been informed our commanding General will be conducting his inspection on a undisclosed facility at a undisclosed time next week...Man, does that mean I have to trim my hair and put a new blade in the razor? Geez what do they want from me?

Keep well Tom and the gang, I shall return.

Dave


QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 13:00:18

G'day Ted
First and foremost, thanx for setting the time for your Birthday Bash – 8 PM, EDST (Eastern Time) on Tuesday, August 16th. You'll be MY age on that day.

I'll be in Dallas that night and will have my laptop with me. The hotel advertises internet connections. So, depending on whatever it is that *** may have planned for me - I should eventually get onlilne for some of your Bash.

Enjoy the visit with your nephew. Is this the same person that you bought those ill fated American Flyer trains for that you told us about [?]If so, did he ever find out what he almost had [?]

Believe it or not, I remember the KCity flood of 1951! Sure do. My uncle was a plumber and he went to a convention in KC during that flood. Didn't know the Ox was lost, but then again, why not [?]Given the location down there in the bottoms.

1951 was also the year of baseball disaster or joy for many baseball fans, October 3rd as a matter of fact. Remember the name Bobby Thomson of the New York Giants? Bottom of the 9th, 3rd and final game of the National League's 3-game playoff between the Brooklyn Dodgers and Giants who finished the regular season in a tie. Ralph Branca on the mound for the Dodgers - 2 outs, 2 on, 0-1 was the count. Bam! It's over, Giants win the pennant, Giants win the pennant, Giants win the pennant ....... screams Russ Hodges, Giant's announcer. Happy day for many, awful day for others. 1951 ..... also the year I traveled to Mobile, AL to say goodbye to my father who was sailing for Korea. Lots of memories from that year .......

See ya!
Tom


QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 13:04:10

G'day Chris
This is a good sign - you're not letting the B-ards get you down! insofar as the internet connectivity thing is concerned.

Appreciate your comments and it was our pleasure to share some of the fun of your day with you!

By the by, MY stick is ALWAYS on the ice - it's the ONLY way I can remaining UPRIGHT!

So, whatillyahave [?]
Tom


QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 13:09:37

Hi West Coast S Dave Still morning out your way, so have some breakfast with that coffee! C'mon, we've got to pay to have this place repaired and brought back in time for Trainnut484 Russell and his Birthday Ba***his Saturday at 7:30 PM! Phew .......

Can't really comment about those loco's, but it still is interesting stuff brought to the forum. That's what we do best 'round here, talk trains - Classic preferred.

See ya!
Tom


QUOTE: West Coast S
Posted: 27 July 2005, 14:01:15

Tom...

The Santa Fe embarked on a general upgrading of older power in the 70s & 80s, included was most GE power, SD24s, GP20s, GP9s, FP45s, former Amtrak F45s and SW12 switchers. The work was performed at Topeka, Claybourn and San Bernadino.

GP9s were upgraded for traction motors, AC, new cabs and wiring all had be previously chopped nosed.

Older GE power received new wiring, cab improvements, filtration modifications and modified traction motors and blowers .

Former SD24s received extensive filtration and cab modifications which resulted in additional sheetmetal on the hood and cab, some received hump control and derated power plants due to removal of the turbochargers and all reclassified as SD26s.

The GP20s received modifications similar to those applied to the SD26s. The GP20s and 26s were intended for light road and yard duty. Seems SF was unable to resist the temptation to use them for road power as well.

The former Amtrak units required the addition of end platforms and pilot work , truck, brake work, regearing and removal of the steam generators, water tank, relocated headlights and repainting into Santa Fe colors.

Dave


QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 15:01:19

G'day West Coast S That brew over there has your name on it !

Anyway, thanx for the info on the SF diesel upgrades ... can't imagine the costs involved with something like that, let alone the initial outlays for the loco's. Costs just about the same as my S-gauge stuff!

The one thing I've always wondered about, and especially with Santa Fe, is the color scheme - or livery to be more railroadish ......[?] Anyway, back in the old days (my days) the diesels were colored to reflect either passenger or freight use. The rule of thumb with the PRR, for example, was Tuscan for passenger and Brunswick Green for freight. All the major roads did this. The best of 'em all, livery that is, was of course the Santa Fe's War Bonnet scheme. Red for passenger and blue for freight. Over the years, the game plan changed - of course as the demise of the passenger train set in. Nevertheless, one continued to see the alternating colors. Even saw some yellow ones in Santa Fe markings. What's the scoop on this [?] Perhaps too much info for this thread - maybe a URL to explain it. Again, it's a curious thing and something that this bar 'n grill likes to kick around.

See ya!
Tom


QUOTE: wrwatkins
Posted: 27 July 2005, 16:13:58

Good afternoon Y'all. I really do not talk like a redneck and use Y'all. Just playing the part since we now live in Texas. I do not have a cowboy hat and only had one pair of cowboy boots. Bought them when my wife met me here to go house hunting in 1978 in our big move form California. Borrowed a cowboy hat and wore the boots and hat to pick her up at the airport. The cowboy boots were the most uncomfortable pair of shoes I ever had. Threw them away after only wearing them a few times. My accent is upper Ohio Valley from the Wheeling-Steubenville area. Some people can pick it out right away.

Tom, I will have the gin. My favorite is Magellan. A little pricy at $35 per liter. It has a definate blue tint and looks like Bombay Sapphire in the bottle. Only difference is that Sapphire is in a blue glass bottle and is as clear as water when in a glass. Magellan is blue in the glass and comes in a clear bottle. Do not want to spoil the good gin with tonic so I will take it over ice with a lemon twist. That is what we have several nights at happy hour. We alternate between gin and cabarnet. Unfortunately I cannot afford Magellan for a reguar diet so mostly have Tanguerey, Sapphire or Beefeaters. So much for my bad habits.

Tom-The Trinity Railway Express, which has 13 Budd RDCs is a joint operation between Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) and the Fort Worth Transit Authority (The T). DART pays all the capital within Dallas county and The T pays all in Tarrant county. Operating expenses are split based on county ridership and currently is abour 60% DART-40% The T. Since the initial start up of service around Christmas 1996 was from Dallas Union Station to South Irving the initial 13 Budd RDCs were purchased by DART. The Bombardier bilevels and the engines are a joint purchase by DART and The T. Sounds like DART got screwed in the deal as the RDCs operate over the whole system. I did manage to get put into the DART-The T operating agreement where The T pays DART rent for the use of the RDCs. The T reps on the advisory committee did not like this as they wanted a free ride, but I prevailed. Part of the T's problem is lack of funding. Their service area has about 1/4 the population of the DART service area and their sales tax levy is 1/2% whereas DART's is a full percent. Bottom line is that DART receives about $375 million per year in sales tax revenue vs. The T's $40 million. DART has or shortly will have all of the Dallas county side double tracked whereas almost all of the track in Tarrant county is still single track. For signalling DART put in state of the art computer controlled solid state equipment. The T used old mechanical relay operated signalling on their side. Oh the wars that go on. DART essentially is the managing partner for the Trinity Railway Express. DART does all of the engineering design and populates the operation with personnel. The TRE office is in the Dallas Union Station. Monthly TRE advisory meetings are held in the conference room at the S&I facility in Irving.

The ROW is the old Rock Island line between Dallas and Fort Worth. When the Rock went bankrupt the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth jointly bought the line with federal funds to preserve it for a future mass transit corridor. I forget when the Rock went belly up, but up to the time it was transferred to TRE it was leased to the BNSF, UP and a short line. The cities collected rental from the guest railroads at about 20 cents per car mile. After we got the TRE up and running we worked on the cities to transfer ownership to TRE. I also claim this as one of my achievements while on the DART board. The cities initially wanted to sell it to TRE, but backed down when they found out that the $35 million they received from the feds to purchase the line would have to be refunded back to the feds. Bottom line is TRE got the line free. For most of this time the BNSF dispatched and maintained the line. The problem was that they were paying union wages with double time for Sunday. We wanted maintenance done on Sunday, but they would not do this and would delay trains when working on the ROW during week days. They also gave preference to BNSF freight trains. I have never heard of a crate inside a box car complain about being in the hole for several minutes, but have heard it from humans inside a coach. So in about 2002 TRE took over operation and dispatching of the line. We contracted this out to the Herzog company from St. Joe Mo. who were and are our contract operator. Herzog has and continues to do a super job. We have a dispatching center in our S&I facility in Irving that has all of the computer terminals just like Harriman Center in Omaha or the BNSF center in Fort Worth, only just a little bit smaller. The line is shut down every Sunday for MOW with nothing moving on the line. When it is all double tracked we will begin running on Sunday.

Coalminer 3, I have a question for you. Your handle says that you are from West Virginia, however, you say you grew up with the B&M, CV, B&A, and New Haven. The last time I checked none of these lines ever reached West Virginia. I assume that you were raised in New England and moved to West Virginia at a later date. Where do you live in West Virgini? Being from that great state, graduating from West Virginia University, and having worked for Hope Gas (1964-1966) I was all over the state chasing wells. Perhaps our trails might have crossed at one time.

Tom, I managed to kill the glass of gin. Could I have another? Thank you. Ah, that tastes good. Pardon me. Do you mind if I lay down for a while?

Snore, snore, snore.

***


QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 17:11:47

G’day *** – Note, that’s in place of Howdy!, however, in deference to your location, the cowboy hat continues! [C):-)]

I’m very excited about getting to see and ride those RDC’s of DART/Trinity. For those who may not know or recall, those fine Budd Rail Diesel Cars were purchased from VIA Rail a few years after the lines between Halifax – Yarmouth and Halifax – Sydney, Nova Scotia were discontinued in the early 1990s. They were all refurbished and brought to standards of DART and are now operating as *** has so aptly chronicled. I saw them in December 1991, just sitting there at the Halifax Station, appropriately with snow falling. They were being run on “shore power,” to prevent freeze ups and other weather related damage until final disposition could be arranged.

There had been an aborted attempt by a group that I chaired to side track a couple of those RDC’s en route Dallas for use in my community for demonstration purposes. We happen to have a legitimate rail right-of-way that could easily accommodate commuter rail. The idea was to link up with our light rail system, which for some unexplained reason has no plans to link up with my town – the largest population and revenue center in west St. Louis county. Anyway, the mere idea of this demonstration created such a fire storm amongst the ignorant and their political hacks, that we gave it up. Additionally, our primary benefactor, one of the retail world’s biggest was given some poor advice regarding some environmental impact crap and began to have second thoughts. To this day my blood simply boils when I think of how close we came, only to be thwarted by ignorance.

Okay, ring the bell Boris – while this isn’t necessarily [#offtopic], I need a belt of something – and so does everyone else!

Oh [yeah], I have a bit of knowledge regarding the old Rock Island Line, or more correctly, the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad. They had three experiences with bankruptcy over the years and in 1980, the court determined that they could not make it in reorganization. They were ordered to liquidate – the largest in U.S. history at the time. The last train operated by the Rock Island was on March 31, 1980.

More gin [?]I'll join ya - but I prefer a dash of tonic and a twist of lime with my Beefeaters!

Tom


QUOTE: West Coast S
Posted: 27 July 2005, 17:15:50

Tom..

Santa Fe did have a few F units painted with yellow replacing the traditional red warbonnet, the remainder of the carbody retained silver paint. I believe this was done in the early 60s and was never adopted as standard. You are correct in your observation that most passenger power wore specific paint, Santa Fe was no exception, Red for passenger, blue for freight..but wait a minute the saga of the FT must be conveyed.

Being the first diesels on the system, they were assigned to handle war tonnage on the western districts, they were considered too valuable for freight duty to be assigned for pool passenger power. Additional FT deliveries and the foreseeable end of conflict, permitted Santa Fe to regear and repaint, initally one and later two sets into passenger colors, which they retained until the push for complete dieselization caused a third repaint back into freight blue. And so this trend continued until Santa Fe finally clarified locomotive assignments. So paint swapping depending on assignments was not unheard of.

Quite a few former passenger units ended service in freight duty (PAs excepted), retaining former passenger colors. Amtrak keep a fleet operating upon startup with only new lettering hastly spray painted on. Santa Fe, meanwhile was rebuilding the remaining suitable F units into CF7 or retiring them enmass and all would be gone by 1973.

Actually, cost wise the rebuilding program was overall less then new purchases in those recession years. SF had too large a roster not to rebuild, its interesting to note that switcher replacement was at the top of the wish list.

So Tom, if you and I are on the same page, there were examples of yellow/silver, blue paint deleated F units.

Whew..I could use that brew now if you please.

Dave


QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 17:21:24

G'day West Coast S Dave

Appreciate the insight regarding the Santa Fe livery of the times ... really does clear it up a bit. Somewhere inside of me is this perfectionist of sorts, kinda like an anal personality that rears (no pun intended!) up when I see something like a passenger colored loco pullling a fregiht. [tdn] Well, [yeah]I know, who really gives a rat's patoot [?]I do!

Two brews comin' up - one for you and one for me!

Tom


QUOTE: West Coast S
Posted: 27 July 2005, 18:05:11

We give a rat's patoot that's who At least freight duty kept them alive for a few more years. I curse those which demoted the Alco PA to freight duty (that's my unsolicited opinion you EL fans). And the Pennsy-Penn Central , shame on you. E units on coal drags

Dave


QUOTE: siberianmo
Posted: 27 July 2005, 19:29:05

Big ditto for West Coast S Dave Perhaps we need to form a Rat's Patoot Club within the framework of "Our" Place!

By the way, the mere reading or sound of Penn Central tightens my jowls! [tdn]An abomination, I tell ya - an absolute railroad tragedy.

I need a brew, a very large and bottomless brew .......

Tom


QUOTE: Theodorebear
Posted: 27 Jul 2005, 21:40:13

Ah, just in time for "last call." Please just an Anisette on the rocks for a night cap. I'm caught up on the panic house "work detail." Tom, this is my second eldest Nephew. The American Flyer orphan is the the eldest. Strangely, the two younger of the three, never took a remote interest in model R.R.ing. I was away in the service during their youthful years, so couldn't guide them along.

I found the exchange between Dave and Tom compelling. It is terribly depressing to witness once regal passenger service and equipment slowly degenerate into disuse and finally, abuse. I realize all things must "go the way of all flesh," however, I believe the R.R.'s got a really "raw deal" post W.W. I and II. The multi billion dollar Interstate Programs initiated by Eisenhower (Robert Moses) and huge subsidies for the airlines and airports after America's R.R's had exhausted their resources on "the war effort;" sealed their doom (passenger). The Industry was still paying paralyzing taxes on every foot of their right-of-way while forced to serve uneconomic routes (mail contracts), then the labor union disputes delivered the final coup de grace.[soapbox] The Federal Gov.t's gratitude was free multi lane, limited access hiways coast to coast so cars, trucks and buses could match or beat R.R. time schedules. Let's don't blame the private R.R. owners for submitting to those kind of odds.

Great discussions at "Our" Place, on or...[#offtopic] Okay Leon, clang the bell. Lucky for me there is just the town drunk left here and old Marlow is sound asleep. G'Night all, Ted

G’d early morning Ted
You know it’s just matter of time before hardly anyone will recall or give a rat’s patoot about the things we care about ‘round here. It is quite accurate to refer to some of the past horrors regarding the demise of U.S. passenger rail as depressing. [tdn] The continuing apathy shown by administration after administration, along with a Congress with it’s collective head quite far up the old chocolate whizway (Whoopie Goldberg, Jumpin’ Jack Flash flick!) confounds even the mildest of mannered railroad proponent. [yeah] Let’s dismantle the entire passenger network – let’s eliminate an alternative method of travel – let’s send to the tar pits an entire industry, etc., etc., etc. Arggggggggggh – I need TWO belts of JD, now!

Oh well, it’s these thoughts and more like ‘em that has me up at this hour!

See ya!
Tom

QUOTE: Gunns
Posted: 27 Jul 2005, 22:21:42

Hi all,
Coffee and pastrey for me, Just got up, and am otw to work. I'll read the summaries, and get back to Ya'll after rounds at work. One photo.....
http://www.railimages.com/gallery/kevinevans/abd
Gunns

Greetings to ya, Gunns Kevin Man, that’s a nasty windshield … one hulluva reminder of just how fortunate you were that no one was injured. [tup]

Tom

QUOTE: passengerfan
Posted: 27 Jul 2005, 22:30:00

Good evening All Just time for a quick Crown Royal with water back and a round for the house.

A special thanks to trolleyboy for the tip he gave me sometime ago on the Canadian Trackside Guide from Bytown. Finally received my copy yesterday in the mail and have been completely absorbed in the book ever since. Best $25.00 I have spent in a long time on a publication with so much information that peaks my particular interest.

Tom They even have a PARK car for sale through VIAS asset disposal. Actually it is the former D&RGW SILVER SKY they bought to convert to HEP and just set it aside. This car featured a shower in the drawing room annex something the Park cars were never built with. Of course neither was the SILVER SKY originally equipped with the shower in the Drawing Room annex it was added later. I have ridden SILVER SKY when it was operated in the RIO GRANDE ZEPHYR and the Bedrooms and Drawing room were taken apart while in this service but all of the easily assembled parts were shipped to Canada with the car when it was sold to VIA. Tom that would be nicer than an RDC to own. Don't know what kind of shape it would be in but would be interesting to find out. Well will close for now I am going to bury myself in the book again.

Good very early morning to ya, passengerfan Al Figured that book of yours was keeping you lying low these days ……. [swg]

To dream, [yeah] it would be a wunnerful thing to own a Park Car – actually not only to own it, but to travel within it for the rest of my days. Ahhhhhhhh, now those are the thoughts that bring a smile …… [:D]

Now, I’m very familiar with the present day interior layout of VIA Rail’s Park Cars. Tell me more about that shower location – drawing room annex [?]

My attraction to the RDC’s I suppose goes back to the look of ‘em, and of course, traveling in them regularly when I resided in the Boston area. Also, the BC Rail experiences enhanced the love affair.

Sure, they are somewhat of an abomination when it comes to passenger trains – after all how can anything be termed a train if it doesn’t have a locomotive [?] Geesh. However, the guys at Budd really came up with a lifesaver for many U.S. and Canadian roads when they built these innovative beauties.

No, my favorite passenger rail car will always be the observation dome by Budd. The RDC on the other hand, remains my fascination. Get the difference [?]

Tom

QUOTE: trolleyboy
Posted: 27 Jul 2005, 22:45:08

Good evening fellows. Leon I will grab a Harps a pull up my stool next to Ted he seems to still be semi conscious.

Dave & Tom wonderful stuff on the rebuilding and paint jobs. I'm glad you mentioned the CF7's, not a pretty site to be sure but look at all the extra mileage they managed to pull out of those old F's, some are still going today. Just shows the ingenuity of the rail shops. I remember CN & CP's mass rebuilds of the GP9's up here as well, most units are still with us 50+ years on. Both CDN roads have the largest (original GP fleets still intact from purchase) Who can forget the mass rebuildings of GP's and early SD's by the Paducah shops of ICG fame. Lots of the GP8 & 10 units they turned out still in shortline service today, I see two or three of the EX SP GP9's that ICG rebuilt to GP10's up here on a local shortline handling a steel slab train!

Coalminer I grew up with CN predominantly, their line to the Port Weller dry docks ran through the back 40 of my grade school and through the subdivision I lived in. Yup mid 70's to late 80's it wasn't uncommon to see the weird CN power pulling the steel plate and rolls and the occasional boiler to the drydocks. HH RS18's.HH GP9's ( before the Pt ST Charles rebuilds ) even GMD1's and s13's. Of coarse all these freight spurs in St Catharines were inherited by CN when they absorbed the NS&T electric territories in 1960 and dieselized them. A hint as to why I'm found of the juice. (Take note Tom some of the back story you wanted a while back) In fact most of the street rail in West St Catharines (Merriton) and Thorold still lope along on 90lbs girder rail in places. Interesting to note that the short line that handles the switching there now uses the same ex CN S13's for the locals, and yes they still pull an old Pte St Charles caboose along with them ( city bylaw must have a tail end crew to guard street crossings ) CP lives in Welland and Niagara falls not far from my original home town as well so I'm a closet CP fan as well (these lines are of course the old TH&B lines) Research and family history and general love of history and all things old sucked me into the vortex of the electric lines in Ontario and to a lesser extent the rest of the country and the US.

As an aside even if you are not a trolley fan per say, grab a copy of Great Lakes trolley's from morning sun books. It covers all the major great lake boardering systems both side of the boarder. Lots of good NS&T, TTC, Cleveland , Chicago you name it good stuff.

The second reason I love the electrics was my great uncle Wilf. He was an NS&T employee (hired on in 1940) He was a car maintenance guy.after the 1960 closing down of the electric system he finished his days fixing busses for St Catharines transit. Got a tour of the original ST Catharines Welland Ave Bus barns which in their heyday were the main repair facility for the NS&T. Too bad they were torn down in the early 80's when St Catharines transit built a new bus facility It was a beautiful turn of the century ( last one ) brick carbarn. The final nail in my traction coffin was meeting my lovely wife and her family who as a family have been involved at the museum since 1972. I can't say I was dragged kicking and screaming, the chance at actually operating a vintage streetcar was a no brainer .Mom and dad hated taking me to Toronto when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's cause I'd always want to ride the streetcars and subway. So Tom there you have it the condenced why of why I'm such a "juice head" anywho catch everyone tomorrow. Rob

G’d very early morning to you too, Rob, glad you could make it in.

I’ll tell ya, hiring Leon the Night Man has been a God send in that he provides the relief I need day-to-day. He’s comin’ ‘round quite well with handling the bar and the guys seem to like him. He’s not quite the challenge of Boris – one is human, the other – well ……….

We do have some interesting exchanges going on in this place, don’t we[?] And of course, that goes to illustrate just why our customer base is the way it is! I don’t care if we remain around a dozen for the rest of this place’s life, just as long as the dozen we have keeps on talking Classic Trains and having a bit of fun while doing so. [tup][tup][tup] to all who make it so!

Appreciate the insight into what makes Trolleyboy Rob tick – or should I say, click![?]] With you it was an uncle, with me a grandfather who provided much of the influence that remains to this day. God love ‘em both!

Growing up in a place called Staten Island, NYC, my exposure to rail travel came at an early age. We had an electrified railway (3rd rail) with cars that resembled the old NYC subway cars – but weren’t. Anyway, this line was owned by the B&O and operated trains along the eastern and western shores of the Island. It was called the Staten Island Rapid Transit (and in fact, there was a quite active thread going on about it during the early days of Canandian Passenger Railroads ……. Lotsa good stuff and URL’s too.) Anyway, in the town I lived in – Port Richmond, one could take the SIRT to St. George to catch the ferry over to Manhattan. Many a Sunday, my grandfather and I would do that very thing. We’d enjoy the 20 minute trips – on the train and aboard the ferry. Then it was the 3rd Avenue El, another 3rd rail treat.

He’d take me to Pennsylvania and Grand Central stations and I have always marveled at how he would go right down to the platforms where all of those beautiful passenger trains were gleaming in the lights of the station. What memories! He’d have his straw hat and ever present cigar, and I’d be holding his hand while wearing the cigar band as a ring on the other. Wonderful times for sure.

While all of that is a distant memory and those great trains of yesteryear are long gone, the one thing that does remain are my memories! [yeah]

Take care!
Tom

==========================================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]
Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:16 AM
Good Mornin' to all, wow what a Thread! [tup] If you can't find it Here, it just ain't "out there." Only havin' a tall cup-a-Joe please, to get me "kick started" on trimming the shrubs and edging the patio. Tom all the stores are in for Saturday night's B-Day Bash for Russell. Took the liberty of buying (petty cash) Lucy appropriate attire for her "lady-in-the-cake" debut. Don't miss it guys! This time the cake is Devil's Food.[:O] All screens are "up" and running and the Juke is set at MAX. "Come one come all!"[:D] As soon as the outside lawn work is done, I'll be back (If the temps don't kill me).[xx(]

Rob you have mail, thanks for the great humor from before.[(-D] Meanwhile, everybody try to stay cool.[8D] Boris, where is the pith helmet I wore in? Egad you thought I said pit helmet and used it for garbage? [C=:-)] Nick I'm gonna getcha for this..."gonna getcha!"[alien] See ya a.s.a.p., Ted

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:42 AM
Top o' the morning' to ya Ted!

Yes, seems like the conversations have perked up quite a bit 'round here and all for the better. Getting some good scoop, including personal insights, regarding our favorite subject - Classic Trains! [yeah]

Now there's something you must keep in mind regarding Cindy. She's strictly a volunteer 'round here - works full time over at the all female University up the road - faculty of course. She has a part-time job down at Victoria Secret's [?] and wound up helping me behind the bar [yeah] on weekends. Her involvement in the kitchen came about once she met Nick. So, be careful with her .......

Fish 'n Chips AND ....... tonight[?]

Sounds like Saturday's plans for the Birthday Bash for our friend, Trainnut484 Russell are well in hand. Good job! [tup][swg]

So, what kinds of things have you planned during the visit by your nephew [?]

Enjoy the breakfast fare ....... that's MY job 'round here, and of course, The Mentor Village Bakery. [tup][;)]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:41 AM
Good Morning All Just time for a quick coffee and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.
Tom The CZ Dome Observations cars were the inspiration for the CANADIAN Park cars. In fact Crump from CP was visiting Budd along with the his passenger people when they spotted CB&Q 378 SILVER LOOKOUT in December 1952 getting ready for delivery. They asked the Budd people if they might have a look inside. And from that look the Canadian Park cars were born. The interiors of the Park car and the CZ dome observations were nearly identical with a cocktail lounge beneath the dome with seating for twelve. The cars three bedrooms were first followed by the Drawing Room. The drawing room bathroom annex was equipped with a shower from the factory on SILVER LOOKOUT the other cars delivered earlier were retrofitted with kits supplied by Budd to CB&Q who installed the shower equipment on the cars Chicago layover. The cars due to their Stainless steel construction should still be in reasonable shape. The Bedroom and drawing room dividers and beds etc are quite easy to reinstall on Budd cars just like assembling a kit. Now as to the condition of the car that is anyones guess as it is my understanding it was never equipped with HEP and may have been stripped of many usable parts to keep the others in service. If this is the case then it is hardly worth looking at. Crown Assets has a number of cars for sale but this is the only Dome observation. Hope this helps Tom
  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: New Mexico <Red Chilli>
  • 259 posts
Posted by Gunns on Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:44 AM
Hi All

Ducked in for coffee before I go home, been thinking about a dream train consist for the 2926. So what would be better? A heavy weight Pullman consist, or the Silversided stuff with the Obvs cars and fluted sites?

Muhahah found the pasteries.....
Gunns
http://www.nmslrhs.org/
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:59 AM
Morning Gunns Kevin
Glad you made it back ......

[2c] Regarding that dream consist, I just don't see the streamliners (ie: Budd 85' corrugated stainless steel) looking smart with a steam engine. There are some great looking smoothsides that would work just as long as the livery somehow blends in with the loco and tender. Heavyweights would be my second choice to smoothsides. Okay [?]

See ya!
Tom[4:-)][oX)]

FOR ALL: PLEASE READ THE SUMMARIES

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:04 AM
Good morning passenger fan Al

Great info on the interior of the observation domes. [yeah] I'm aware of the CZ influence on domes, and in particular the obs dome. Wonderful innovation for sure! [tup]

I just can't get a vision regarding where the shower wound up being installed. You referred to it as an annex. Are you saying that the present day water closet facility had the shower within it, or was additional floor space in the drawing room given up for the shower[?] Foggy picture in my aging head.

Thanx!
Tom[C=:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:04 AM
THE CUSTOMERS of ”Our” Place as of July 28th, 2005

Al – passengerfan, first visit: 12 April 2005 – 2nd Charter member!

Chris – CFournier, first visit: 12 April 2005 – 1st Charter member!

..............coalminer3, first visit: 14 April 2005

Dan – earlydiesels, first visit: 16 April 2005

Dave – West Coast S, first visit: 14 April 2005

*** – wrwatkins, first visit: 2 May 2005

Doug – barndad, first visit: 12 July 2005

Kevin – Gunns, first visit: 28 June 2005

Nick – nickinwestwales, first visit: 27 April 2005

Rob – trolleyboy, first visit: 12 April 2005, Charter Member

Russell – Trainnut 484, first visit: 28 June 2005

Ted – Theodorebear (and then some!), first visit: 2 May 2005

That’s the list of folks we see ‘round here.

Tom, Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 12:59 PM
Good afternoon Tom et al. It is lunch time so I will have a big coke and a whole plate full of sweet pasteries from the Mentor Bakery. My wife is not here so I can indulge. This will be my last post for about two weeks.[:(] Really sad as I cannot get the sad smile face to come up correct. Maybe when I hit the submit key it will appear. As you know we are leaving Saturday for the Ocean train ride from Montrael to Halifax and the visit to the Maritimes. Friday is fairly cut up with meetings, breakfast club, and Bonehead Club at lunch plus a visit to the dermatologist. Plus we have a funeral to go to tonight. UGH! Don't count me out. I shall return.

Let me give you my last dialogue from my trip to London. On Tuesday it was a clear and cool morning so I decided to take the Underground to Paddington as taxis are hard to get at the boutique hotels in the morning. Walked the block to Knightsbridge station on the Piccidilly line. I previously told the tale of complete or partial shut downs of the Underground and will not repeat it here. Got as far as Keningston High Street station on the District line where it terminated due to the bombings. Getting a taxi there at 7:30 in the morning was not easy and it took 10 minutes to hail one. Finally reached Paddington at 7:45 AM which is about 1/2 hour later than usual. I checked the monitor to see which track the next train to Reading was departing on. Every train was listed as Cancelled or Delayed. Not a good morning so far. The First Great Western agent said some idiot decided to commit suicide by jumping in front of a train about 10 miles west. The police stopped all train traffic entering or leaving Paddington until they completed their investigation. With four tracks the idiot only fouled one and we could use the other three for trains. I guess the police did not see it that way. The agent said that I could take a 20 minute ride on the Bakerloo line to Waterloo station where a train goes from there to Reading. The Underground is NOT air conditioned and with the mass of rush hour people it was quite warm. By the time I got to Waterloo I was soaked from sweat. The agent at Waterloo said the Reading left on Track 28 just to our left in five minutes. (Wasn't there a Track 28 in Pennsylvania Station per the song?) Remember I said the high speed train from Paddington made it to Reading in 25 minutes. The train from Waterloo was a commuter train that made several stops. I lost count after what seemed like the 528th station. The line from Waterloo is not the most direct line to Reading and I got to call at (as the Brits say) such places as Ascot, Virginia Waters, Twickingham, and a host of others. Finally arrived in Reading at 10:05 and took a taxi arriving at the office at 10:15. The clients were aware of the suicide and came in to kid me asking "How was my ride in today?" I told them they did not realize how close I came to calling and saying I will not be there that day. We all had a good laugh and got into serious work.

As I said last week was DIFFERENT. Do not need too many more like it. I seemed like everything was turning into a soft sea of ***.

Better get another coke. Those 10 sweet rolls really were good, Tom. My compliments to the pastry chef at the Mentor Bakery.

By for now. Will speak to you all again in two weeks.

Cheers,
***
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:25 PM
Well back once more before I leave to do some errands for the better half. I'll have a Crown Royal with water back
Gunns Your question about what would lokk better behind 2926. Well they were known to have headed up the all lightweight CHIEFS before the ALCO PA-PB-PA sets took over. Heavyweights would look nice too. The problem with heavyweights is keeping them running today need lots of rust prevention and maintenace whereas the lightweights require less maintenance and little paint. And also the lightweights only have four axles and eight wheels per car compared to the heavyweights six axles and twelve wheels. Lightweights only had one boarding vestibule and heavyweights had two. Lightweights were all equipped with tightlock couplers so their is less wear and tear on equipment then heavyweights.
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, July 28, 2005 1:47 PM
Good afternoon everyone.Tom what's the sandwich iof the day ( hope it's ham and swiss )I'll wash whatever it is down with a kieths or two. BTW Tom & Ted you have mail, jusyt got around to it as sympatico's been a bit off this morning. Not to worry Chris it's much better than the aol.Gunns Thanks for your participation on the museum site. I'd have to concur with Tom on your passenger car consist's. Smoothsides would be more than fine. I still say check witht the aquisitions at VIA though that Park car may be a perfecy way of getting all of us to regularly ride the train when it's done. ( Who am I kidding we'll likley come down and run on it anyway. I may be young but steam is where it's at unless it's running of of overhead. [:D][swg]. Al The trackside guide is adicting isn't it. You now have in yopur hand s the most mindboggling account of preserved and regular use rail vehicles in Canada private and corporate[tup] Their branchline magazine is quite could as well. It acts as a bimonthley update to the trackside guide but with more pictures.tom your granddad seems like quite the guy. A lot like my Great uncle Wilf even down to the cigars ! Those Staten Island third rails are still running aren't they ? I'm off for now 'nother' busy day at the museum tomorrow. BTW Tom this Budd is for you .[:D] Take care everyone. Rob
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
  • 1,619 posts
Posted by West Coast S on Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:07 PM
Afternoon Tom and the gang..

News from Omaha

UP announces that five new SD70ACe will be released in the following pre-merger liverys SP-grey/scarlet, C&NW geen/yellow w/ lighting stripes, WP inspired green/orange, MKT green/yellow and MP blue.

Units will be numbered according to year of merger. UP has modifed the paint somewhat to reflect what these colors would look like applied to modern power.
Two mystery units are present at Omaha, concealed by blue tarps awaiting unvailing this Saturday in a ceremony which includes 4-8-4 844.

Not too classic for this forum, just call it retro-modern and a refreshing change from the Armour Yellow and Grey.

So, rejoice that UP has the foresight to pay homage to it's history, despite all the negative press of late. I can't wait to see the end results.



TrolleyBoy, I admit to having some affection toward the CF7s, Growing up, the local crew would let me occupy the left hand seat, usual power was set of CF7s. The local worked the WP interchange to deliver coil to the local steel mill.

The engineer would stop short of the interchange lead where it was safe to sneak aboard, on one occasion our train recieved a stop signal when aproaching the manned station, this was unusual as they worked from a switchlist and usually there were no opposing movements.

Upon stopping, it was disclosed that the road forman was boarding. The crew risked discipilinary action if the road foreman caught wind of a unauthorized person aboard. To vanish and this point would invite a query as to who I was. So a plan was hatched and I was then known as the student brakeman.

We made the required pickups and drops, shuffled loaded coil cars to mill, retrieved the empties, back to the WP interchange and return to the small yard to tie up. Before the Road Forman departed he passed along a "well done". So that's the story of how I became a unpaid-no employement Santa Fe brakeman for a day.

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:19 PM
That does sound interesting Up's taking a page from some of the other railways. Public image is important. Other notable similarities to this the last 15 years or so would be NS painting the one GP59 in southern Green . CN when they auired IC used the execytive E's that IC had for their business train for a while but they had them repainted to CNR passenger livery of Green / Black / Yellow old super continental scheme. And recently CP has repainted a GP38-2 and an F7 and F9b to the old Maroon and grey Script scheme for use on the Royal Canadian Pacific tour trains along with the reserected Empress Hudson number 2816. Nice to have some colour come back to the rails. IMHO thouigh CPR never should have gotten rid of the classic Maroon and Grey paint schemes or CN the freight Green and Yellow or the Passenger livery.The "classic" paint jobs are well just classy . Later everyone Rob
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:44 PM
Hello *** – as opposed to Howdy [swg]

Loading up on sweets, hmmmmmm wonder what hidden message that refers to [?]

Oh how I envy your VIA Rail trips to and from Halifax, especially aboard the vintage Budd equipment and the obs dome Park Car! Hope it all turns out well for you and your bride and that you return refreshed and ready to meet the challenges awaiting. Like my trip down to Dallas on the 16th!! [swg]

The only comment I have regarding those who decide to jump in front of trains is: You can’t fix stupid! Tortured souls may be in a better place – who knows[?]

Oh [yeah], so what’s wrong with 528 stops[?] [swg]

Bon voyage! See you in a couple of weeks …….. [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:46 PM
Yo passengerfan Al Surely you read my comments on your comments .... check it out - scroll up a bit.

Better lay off that water with the Crown Royal! [swg]]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:53 PM
G'day Rob

Sandwich menu essentially is whatever turns you on! You name it and if it comes in lunch meat and cheese, we've got it! [tup] Good stock of frosty cold bottles of Keiths Ale ... ummmmmm! [swg]

[yeah] The Staten Island Rapid Transit (SIRT) lives on, but under the name of MTA NYC Transit. The only line left runs the length of the Island - about 15 miles - from St. George to Tottenville. Runs generally inland of the eastern shore.

Love those photo's! Makes me want to drop everything and fly up to Toronto for a trip along the corridor to Montreal, then board the Ocean to Halifax ....... Whoa! Dejavu, or something like that. DIdn't all of this happen in early May[?] Hmmmmmmm. Must be getting old, can't recall with certainty! [swg]

Do you happen to know where those photo's were taken and what train these cars were a part of [?} The striping tells me that they aren't the Ocean, and perhaps are still running the Corridor. You tell me! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:04 PM
Hey West Coast S

Interesting stuff you posted regarding the nostalgia livery. I had no idea that modern day railroads even gave a rat's patoot about things like heritage, etc. Refreshing to know that some do. But of course, there's got to be a marketing aspect to all of it. I suppose one should be happy with what they are willing to give! [tup]

Student Brakeman must have been quite a kick .... what a memory! I've never been in an operating loco cab. One day, one day ......... [yeah]

Whatillyahave, by the way[?] We have bills to pay 'round here. [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    October 2002
  • From: Kansas City area
  • 833 posts
Posted by Trainnut484 on Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:06 PM
Good afternoon Tom, and et all [8D]. I'll have a Miller Lite and a big sandwich.

Dave, those SD70ACes will look erie in the older schemes. I would really like to see the MKT version. Maybe one will crawl through KC. Retro-modern, that's a catchy phrase [;)] I also have a little place in my heart (sniff sniff) for CF7s. I wasn't able to see them in regular service (too young at the time to differentiate locomotive types), but I do have a nice collection of them in Athearn's RTR line, and photos of them in books.

Kevin, my vote goes for the lightweights. As Al pointed out, their less of a maintenance headache to run. I've had the pleasure to bump into Mr. Stagner a few times. He and I shared a good friend who's now up in the big roundhouse in the sky. Last I saw Lloyd, he was at the Santa Fe mini-meet last year here in Mission, KS. Hopefully he'll be able to come to this year's mini-meet.

***, sorry that you had a bad time across the pond. They should be able to bounce back to normal if they haven't already.

Rob, [tup] nice pix of the Budd car.

Tom, the "Rat's Patoot" room gets a vote from me. Maybe a commode will give it some ambiance [;)][}:)].

BTW where's Dan-earlydiesels[?].

Ahhhh that Miller Lite went down smooth. I'll have another.

Russell

All the Way!
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:34 PM
G'day Trainnut484 Russell
Big sandwich comin' up and Miller Lite! The sandwich is one of our yard stick specials, you get a free beer with every foot you eat! [tup] [swg]

All the conversation regarding the nostalgia paint jobs really is enlightening to me in that I had no clue ....... really, didn't. Most of the people that I've come in contact with who are high up on the food chain of whatever their company happens to be involved with seem to be of a totally different background and training than in my day. Good Gawd Gertie, I DO sound like an old man - well, perhaps that's because some people think I are one! [swg] Anyway, nice to know there are some folks sitting in the big-backed chairs who call the shots in some directions we can all appreciate. [tup]

Anyway, I've never been much of a train watcher in the sense that I've never gotten into my car and gone anywhere simply to watch trains go by. There WERE exceptions when my 3 kids were little ones. There was a great train station just outside of Cincinnati, Ohio called the Madeira Train Station - oh how the kids loved to sit on the tailgate of our station wagon and watch those trains rumble through. Come to think of it, so did I! [yeah] We'd all look forward to doing that when visiting Grandma & Grandpa ....... [yeah]

Retro-modern - [yeah] I can dig it! [tup]

Hey, it's summer and I hope our guys have more to do than sit in front of a computer screen, when there are so many other things to do! Drinking beer comes to mind! [}:)]

See ya! [tup]
Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:34 PM
Sorry so late getting back to "Our" Place. No matter, the culinary chores are under control with Baked, Sea Bass (stuffed with Md. crab meat), Butterflied Shrimp saute in white wine and garlic, fried Grouper open faces sandwiches w/tarter or cocktail sauce. I must run again for my Nephew is at the door. More on this later. Bon apetit, enjoy today's fine catch. I must catch up on Summaries before any further comments. See ya soon, Ted
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:54 PM
Hello everyone. I'll take a Margarita on the rocks, please. I had a response earlier today but in the middle of it, the computer crashed! Been reading the summaries and here goes some things that I had to take notes on.( I suffer from CRS)
Theodorebear, the Leaky Roof line and the rr you speak of are different. The KC,StJ,&CC was a narrow guage line, if memory serves. The Midland's General Manager has been researching this road for years and recently gave a talk on it at their NRHS meeting. Missed that. Are you for certain that being manager of Our Place is a promotion or a demotion??
Gunns, I agree that the lightweight cars would be better for your loco, but my sense of esthetics believes heavyweights would look better behind it.BTW, what kind of air brake schedule is the loco equipped with? Our 1943 Baldwin has the #8.
Wow! UP might not be so bad after all. Plans to have new power painted for predecessor roads sounds classy. I thought that only happened in Canada. I have a fondness in my heart for the Katy. Behind the Frisco, I'd venture that Katy was my second favorite rr. Must be the underdog complex! Mopac was in Spfld, too, but I don't have many feelings for them. Liked their Bicentennial units when they came thru, however. What's even better is that UP is honoring these fallen flags with EMDs. I can't stand GEs.
Tom, you say you have never been in the cab of a working engine? I will change that if you ever show up at the Midland this fall. I must have been real young when I had my first cab ride as I don't remember it and there is no one around to ask. In high school, I rode with my stepdad on his evening switch job several times. Even had an official drive us to Steak n Shake for dinner one night. He knew who I was and did not care so long as I behaved.
Here in Spfld, there is a plan to separate 3 major crossings from the rails. Back in the early 70s, Frisco built a new line on the outskirts of town to eliminate street running and tying up major crossings. Now the city has grown up and the new line is so busy that several vital arteries are plugged when a train comes. They are studying what to do with the streets. On the news yesterday, the reporter said 88 trains a day come thru. I think they must be counting switching moves, light engines, etc. On Monday night, a meeting is planned to discuss this and I plan to attend. It will probably be a fiasco but I won't know until I go.
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
  • 1,619 posts
Posted by West Coast S on Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:07 PM
Evening Tom and the gang...

Trainnut484.. Information I have is that the MKT unit will have silver trucks and fuel tank and revised striping pattern, but the familar green will be present. Being in KC, with UP nearby you will likely encounter all versions as they will be assigned system wide for maxium public exposure.

Trolleyboy.. I agree that the The maroon/ grey should never had been abolished, ditto for the Maple leaf logo and maple green paint on the CN. Great looking paint jobs from the good old days. I wonder if there is any chance of either road reviving the IC chocolate and orange at some date perhaps. One more snappy job in my opinion. CSX can get in on the retro modern as well, citrus and purple of the SCL & ACL for example , talk about a mind blower!

I don't know about sheer ugliness, the CF7s had a down to business homely look to them, not the worst conversion job out there, they would shake like Donald Trump undergoing an IRS audit and wallowed like Rosie O'Donald in a thong bikini, but they versitile and saved the Santa Fe untold dollars for replacement locomotives.

I don't think we will ever see the complete demise of the 1st generation geeps or SDs. UP made the fapah of retiring the former SP SD7-9s upon merger, only to discover it had no suitible replacement for the type of service they were traditionally assigned to. As long as parts and creativity from the rebuilders exist they will remain an option for roads without large pockets.


Another round for the house, what are we having? Pontificating does that to me, so ordered by the Royal Order of the Patoot[:D]

Dave [tup]
SP the way it was in S scale
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:23 PM
Good evening Ted

Glad you took a minute to check the ktichen - seems like the Fish 'n Chips are going well, as always - and of course your culinary delights that you posted on the Nick's Picks board over there ....... [tup] Good job and thanx! [swg]

Yes - check the SUMMARIES - these pages seem to by flying by of late ........ that's good for "Our" Place [yeah]

Email received and responded to. Thanx!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:32 PM
Hello early diesels Dan

Appreciate your taking the time to catch up - makes me feel that the SUMMARIES are worth the effort. I checked all of the posts today - from page 1 to present - man oh man has this place taken on a life of it's own! Having a small group of interested participants is far, far better than those threads where there just isn't any continuity. Thanx to guys like you, we're doing fine! [tup][tup][tup]

The Midland is on my places to visit list and believe me, I'm looking forward to it. While I haven't had that locomotive cab experience - yet - I've been on the bridge of many a vessel far out in the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans! Driving ships, so to speak, is just a tad different, and yet similiar to running trains. Ships have limitations insofar as the bottom of the pond is concerned, whereas trains can only go where the tracks have been placed. Both cannot stop on a dime. [swg]

Enjoy the evening 'round here and see ya soon!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter