QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 07:57:36 All of our regulars know about the Birthday Watch List .... however, it needs to be posted repeatedly, just as a reminder regarding who is coming up next for the Birthday Bash ...... 2005 BIRTHDAY WATCH LIST (rev. July 27th): February 2nd (Kevin – 49) March 5th (Nick – 45) April 18 (Al - 63) May 18th (Tom - 67) May 27th (Dave - 46) June 24th (Dan - 43) July 15th (*** – 65) July 25th (Chris - 51) July 30th (Russell – 34) Next up! 7:30 PM CDST August 16th (Ted - 67) 8 PM, EDST September 8th (Rob - 34) Not on the list [?] Send me an Email with your birth date (month-day-year). Corrections too! Tom NOTE for all: Check the SUMMARIES
QUOTE: coalminer3 Posted: 27 July 2005, 10:24:23 Good Morning All: Coffee and on my way...enjoyed trip to opthamologist this a.m. Everything checked out O.K. so we we're good to go a little longer. Weather report here is more of the same; heat and humidity. Wish I were on that train to northern Michigan. I had somebody ask me what the temperature was underground. It's usually 52-55 degrees here, damp, and basically the same winter and summer. Here's something to get our readers up and going. From the posts, it seems that we have a wide range of rrs of interest to our visitors. Which rr(s) got you interested in trains? There were four where I grew up; Boston and Albany, Central Vermont, New Haven, and Boston and Maine. These are not in any rank order. By the way, if any of you are still looking for RDC (and lots of classic) material, Google Friends of Bedford Depot, and enjoy. The site also has a lot of information abt. 2-foot gauge rrs in that part of the world. This is an interesting group which is doing a lot of preservation/restoration work. Some of the color photos are fascinating; I relived a lot of my childhood viewing them. We'll close with a bit of recommended reading. It's a new book on the SP titled The Sunset Route; a most interesting take which undoes a lot of the mythology surrounding the SP. work safe
QUOTE: Theodorebear Posted: 27 July 2005, 10:39:54 Hi everybody, A Beefeater's Gin and Tonic w/a twist, if you please. My Nephew is in town and here tomorrow. Today, is "cleaning day!" [Aside] Tom, sorta like an I.G. Inspection. That panic sort of "tidying up" is when you can't find anything for 2 weeks after the visit. SOOoo, I can't stay long, I'm on a short break just now. There was no Kemper Arena when I lived in K.C., just miles of covered cattle chutes that spanned the streets and avenues, etc. Cudahay, Swift, Armour and Wilson (among others) were the big meat processors back then. The 1951 Missouri River flood "took out" everything including the "Ox" The American Royal Pavilion was still intact. Its all changed from those former days due to the I-States, new building, etc. Russell, glad you approve of the menu. Yes, there will be the traditional "lady in the cake." Cindy won't be available, however, Lucy has condescended to do the "honors" this time. Tom, I think 8 pm ESDT should be convenient on August 16th (Tuesday). I may have to forgo the "lady in the cake" at my "Bash" The gals just aren't keen on the mess that goes with it. Something to do with Boris licking his fingers for more. Okay, I gotta' went, too much to do, too little time to do it. Aufwiedersehen you's guys. Ted
QUOTE: CFournier Posted: 27 July 2005, 11:18:49 Good day all, Coffee please, I had a nice party thanks to you guys, and a special thank you to Tom for all his efforts to keep me in touch with this nice bunch of fellow railfans. I tried to be there as much as I could with this **** connection AOL... Will be switching to Sympatico soon. Happy birthday to Russell in advance. See you later, and as the guy says in the Red-Green show: Keep your stick on the ice... Chris
QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 12:43:54 G'day coalminer 3 Exasperation! Just lost a couple of paragraphs in reply ..... [censored][banghead] Today was also Doctor day for me .... got a good to go as well. Has anyone else noticed that the phrase good to go is getting quite a bit of overuse by TV commercials these days[?] I have an airline pilot friend who has used this phrase many times over the years and it makes sense coming from him. Given the checks and rechecks these guys go through in their professions, it makes sense. Buying fast food, however ...... Early railroad fascination for me began in the 1940's when my grandfather used to take me to Pennsylvania and Grand Central Stations in NYC. The PRR and NYC were my two favorites simply because those were the ones we got to travel aboard - for the fun of it. As I entered adolescence, the B&O entered the picture. As a young adult, the NH and B&M. All of those roads to this day occupy very special places in my aging memory banks. PRR is number one, and GG1's rule! I checked out that site, Friends of Bedford Depot, and it's amazing how much stuff can be included in those cyber places. Thanx! Tom
QUOTE: West Coast S Posted: 27 July, 12:56:20 Morning Tom and the gang...Coffee please, Trolleyboy you are correct that the BN rebuilt a few GP30s and GP20s in the 80s before terminating the program due to cost. Both were brought up to GP40-2 standards if I remember correctly. 645 power assemblies and dash 2 specific wiring and modular boards were the major improvements. Back in the 80s it was common to see SF GP-20s and 30s working as lead power just about anywhere on the SF. I once encountered a GP30 set powering the Southwest Chief over Cajon Pass, with the usual F40s missing from the ranks. I've always wondered what they did for head end power in a situation like this. Now the SF SD26s were impressive conversions, I had the pleasure of a private tour of the San Bernadino shops where they receiving final attention prior to being placed in service. A favorite photo of mine was taken that same afternoon, a four exposure series of wide angle shots of 12 SD26s sitting in the A yard, so fresh, my light meter was useless for automatic exposure! The El Segundo local made its p rounds today, unusual, they normally work on Tuesdays and Fridays. Power was the usual UP GP50/MP15 setup. I have a second SF GP30 sitting to report, this time two blocks from the house in the company of several GP38s. With the Alameda Corridor this line has been dormant of all through traffic for over three years, BNSF uses the line for storage of surplus . Well guess I’d better get some work done today, I've been informed our commanding General will be conducting his inspection on a undisclosed facility at a undisclosed time next week...Man, does that mean I have to trim my hair and put a new blade in the razor? Geez what do they want from me? Keep well Tom and the gang, I shall return. Dave
QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 13:00:18 G'day Ted First and foremost, thanx for setting the time for your Birthday Bash – 8 PM, EDST (Eastern Time) on Tuesday, August 16th. You'll be MY age on that day. I'll be in Dallas that night and will have my laptop with me. The hotel advertises internet connections. So, depending on whatever it is that *** may have planned for me - I should eventually get onlilne for some of your Bash. Enjoy the visit with your nephew. Is this the same person that you bought those ill fated American Flyer trains for that you told us about [?]If so, did he ever find out what he almost had [?] Believe it or not, I remember the KCity flood of 1951! Sure do. My uncle was a plumber and he went to a convention in KC during that flood. Didn't know the Ox was lost, but then again, why not [?]Given the location down there in the bottoms. 1951 was also the year of baseball disaster or joy for many baseball fans, October 3rd as a matter of fact. Remember the name Bobby Thomson of the New York Giants? Bottom of the 9th, 3rd and final game of the National League's 3-game playoff between the Brooklyn Dodgers and Giants who finished the regular season in a tie. Ralph Branca on the mound for the Dodgers - 2 outs, 2 on, 0-1 was the count. Bam! It's over, Giants win the pennant, Giants win the pennant, Giants win the pennant ....... screams Russ Hodges, Giant's announcer. Happy day for many, awful day for others. 1951 ..... also the year I traveled to Mobile, AL to say goodbye to my father who was sailing for Korea. Lots of memories from that year ....... See ya! Tom
QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 13:04:10 G'day Chris This is a good sign - you're not letting the B-ards get you down! insofar as the internet connectivity thing is concerned. Appreciate your comments and it was our pleasure to share some of the fun of your day with you! By the by, MY stick is ALWAYS on the ice - it's the ONLY way I can remaining UPRIGHT! So, whatillyahave [?] Tom
QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 13:09:37 Hi West Coast S Dave Still morning out your way, so have some breakfast with that coffee! C'mon, we've got to pay to have this place repaired and brought back in time for Trainnut484 Russell and his Birthday Ba***his Saturday at 7:30 PM! Phew ....... Can't really comment about those loco's, but it still is interesting stuff brought to the forum. That's what we do best 'round here, talk trains - Classic preferred. See ya! Tom
QUOTE: West Coast S Posted: 27 July 2005, 14:01:15 Tom... The Santa Fe embarked on a general upgrading of older power in the 70s & 80s, included was most GE power, SD24s, GP20s, GP9s, FP45s, former Amtrak F45s and SW12 switchers. The work was performed at Topeka, Claybourn and San Bernadino. GP9s were upgraded for traction motors, AC, new cabs and wiring all had be previously chopped nosed. Older GE power received new wiring, cab improvements, filtration modifications and modified traction motors and blowers . Former SD24s received extensive filtration and cab modifications which resulted in additional sheetmetal on the hood and cab, some received hump control and derated power plants due to removal of the turbochargers and all reclassified as SD26s. The GP20s received modifications similar to those applied to the SD26s. The GP20s and 26s were intended for light road and yard duty. Seems SF was unable to resist the temptation to use them for road power as well. The former Amtrak units required the addition of end platforms and pilot work , truck, brake work, regearing and removal of the steam generators, water tank, relocated headlights and repainting into Santa Fe colors. Dave
QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 15:01:19 G'day West Coast S That brew over there has your name on it ! Anyway, thanx for the info on the SF diesel upgrades ... can't imagine the costs involved with something like that, let alone the initial outlays for the loco's. Costs just about the same as my S-gauge stuff! The one thing I've always wondered about, and especially with Santa Fe, is the color scheme - or livery to be more railroadish ......[?] Anyway, back in the old days (my days) the diesels were colored to reflect either passenger or freight use. The rule of thumb with the PRR, for example, was Tuscan for passenger and Brunswick Green for freight. All the major roads did this. The best of 'em all, livery that is, was of course the Santa Fe's War Bonnet scheme. Red for passenger and blue for freight. Over the years, the game plan changed - of course as the demise of the passenger train set in. Nevertheless, one continued to see the alternating colors. Even saw some yellow ones in Santa Fe markings. What's the scoop on this [?] Perhaps too much info for this thread - maybe a URL to explain it. Again, it's a curious thing and something that this bar 'n grill likes to kick around. See ya! Tom
QUOTE: wrwatkins Posted: 27 July 2005, 16:13:58 Good afternoon Y'all. I really do not talk like a redneck and use Y'all. Just playing the part since we now live in Texas. I do not have a cowboy hat and only had one pair of cowboy boots. Bought them when my wife met me here to go house hunting in 1978 in our big move form California. Borrowed a cowboy hat and wore the boots and hat to pick her up at the airport. The cowboy boots were the most uncomfortable pair of shoes I ever had. Threw them away after only wearing them a few times. My accent is upper Ohio Valley from the Wheeling-Steubenville area. Some people can pick it out right away. Tom, I will have the gin. My favorite is Magellan. A little pricy at $35 per liter. It has a definate blue tint and looks like Bombay Sapphire in the bottle. Only difference is that Sapphire is in a blue glass bottle and is as clear as water when in a glass. Magellan is blue in the glass and comes in a clear bottle. Do not want to spoil the good gin with tonic so I will take it over ice with a lemon twist. That is what we have several nights at happy hour. We alternate between gin and cabarnet. Unfortunately I cannot afford Magellan for a reguar diet so mostly have Tanguerey, Sapphire or Beefeaters. So much for my bad habits. Tom-The Trinity Railway Express, which has 13 Budd RDCs is a joint operation between Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) and the Fort Worth Transit Authority (The T). DART pays all the capital within Dallas county and The T pays all in Tarrant county. Operating expenses are split based on county ridership and currently is abour 60% DART-40% The T. Since the initial start up of service around Christmas 1996 was from Dallas Union Station to South Irving the initial 13 Budd RDCs were purchased by DART. The Bombardier bilevels and the engines are a joint purchase by DART and The T. Sounds like DART got screwed in the deal as the RDCs operate over the whole system. I did manage to get put into the DART-The T operating agreement where The T pays DART rent for the use of the RDCs. The T reps on the advisory committee did not like this as they wanted a free ride, but I prevailed. Part of the T's problem is lack of funding. Their service area has about 1/4 the population of the DART service area and their sales tax levy is 1/2% whereas DART's is a full percent. Bottom line is that DART receives about $375 million per year in sales tax revenue vs. The T's $40 million. DART has or shortly will have all of the Dallas county side double tracked whereas almost all of the track in Tarrant county is still single track. For signalling DART put in state of the art computer controlled solid state equipment. The T used old mechanical relay operated signalling on their side. Oh the wars that go on. DART essentially is the managing partner for the Trinity Railway Express. DART does all of the engineering design and populates the operation with personnel. The TRE office is in the Dallas Union Station. Monthly TRE advisory meetings are held in the conference room at the S&I facility in Irving. The ROW is the old Rock Island line between Dallas and Fort Worth. When the Rock went bankrupt the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth jointly bought the line with federal funds to preserve it for a future mass transit corridor. I forget when the Rock went belly up, but up to the time it was transferred to TRE it was leased to the BNSF, UP and a short line. The cities collected rental from the guest railroads at about 20 cents per car mile. After we got the TRE up and running we worked on the cities to transfer ownership to TRE. I also claim this as one of my achievements while on the DART board. The cities initially wanted to sell it to TRE, but backed down when they found out that the $35 million they received from the feds to purchase the line would have to be refunded back to the feds. Bottom line is TRE got the line free. For most of this time the BNSF dispatched and maintained the line. The problem was that they were paying union wages with double time for Sunday. We wanted maintenance done on Sunday, but they would not do this and would delay trains when working on the ROW during week days. They also gave preference to BNSF freight trains. I have never heard of a crate inside a box car complain about being in the hole for several minutes, but have heard it from humans inside a coach. So in about 2002 TRE took over operation and dispatching of the line. We contracted this out to the Herzog company from St. Joe Mo. who were and are our contract operator. Herzog has and continues to do a super job. We have a dispatching center in our S&I facility in Irving that has all of the computer terminals just like Harriman Center in Omaha or the BNSF center in Fort Worth, only just a little bit smaller. The line is shut down every Sunday for MOW with nothing moving on the line. When it is all double tracked we will begin running on Sunday. Coalminer 3, I have a question for you. Your handle says that you are from West Virginia, however, you say you grew up with the B&M, CV, B&A, and New Haven. The last time I checked none of these lines ever reached West Virginia. I assume that you were raised in New England and moved to West Virginia at a later date. Where do you live in West Virgini? Being from that great state, graduating from West Virginia University, and having worked for Hope Gas (1964-1966) I was all over the state chasing wells. Perhaps our trails might have crossed at one time. Tom, I managed to kill the glass of gin. Could I have another? Thank you. Ah, that tastes good. Pardon me. Do you mind if I lay down for a while? Snore, snore, snore. ***
QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 17:11:47 G’day *** – Note, that’s in place of Howdy!, however, in deference to your location, the cowboy hat continues! [C):-)] I’m very excited about getting to see and ride those RDC’s of DART/Trinity. For those who may not know or recall, those fine Budd Rail Diesel Cars were purchased from VIA Rail a few years after the lines between Halifax – Yarmouth and Halifax – Sydney, Nova Scotia were discontinued in the early 1990s. They were all refurbished and brought to standards of DART and are now operating as *** has so aptly chronicled. I saw them in December 1991, just sitting there at the Halifax Station, appropriately with snow falling. They were being run on “shore power,” to prevent freeze ups and other weather related damage until final disposition could be arranged. There had been an aborted attempt by a group that I chaired to side track a couple of those RDC’s en route Dallas for use in my community for demonstration purposes. We happen to have a legitimate rail right-of-way that could easily accommodate commuter rail. The idea was to link up with our light rail system, which for some unexplained reason has no plans to link up with my town – the largest population and revenue center in west St. Louis county. Anyway, the mere idea of this demonstration created such a fire storm amongst the ignorant and their political hacks, that we gave it up. Additionally, our primary benefactor, one of the retail world’s biggest was given some poor advice regarding some environmental impact crap and began to have second thoughts. To this day my blood simply boils when I think of how close we came, only to be thwarted by ignorance. Okay, ring the bell Boris – while this isn’t necessarily [#offtopic], I need a belt of something – and so does everyone else! Oh [yeah], I have a bit of knowledge regarding the old Rock Island Line, or more correctly, the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad. They had three experiences with bankruptcy over the years and in 1980, the court determined that they could not make it in reorganization. They were ordered to liquidate – the largest in U.S. history at the time. The last train operated by the Rock Island was on March 31, 1980. More gin [?]I'll join ya - but I prefer a dash of tonic and a twist of lime with my Beefeaters! Tom
QUOTE: West Coast S Posted: 27 July 2005, 17:15:50 Tom.. Santa Fe did have a few F units painted with yellow replacing the traditional red warbonnet, the remainder of the carbody retained silver paint. I believe this was done in the early 60s and was never adopted as standard. You are correct in your observation that most passenger power wore specific paint, Santa Fe was no exception, Red for passenger, blue for freight..but wait a minute the saga of the FT must be conveyed. Being the first diesels on the system, they were assigned to handle war tonnage on the western districts, they were considered too valuable for freight duty to be assigned for pool passenger power. Additional FT deliveries and the foreseeable end of conflict, permitted Santa Fe to regear and repaint, initally one and later two sets into passenger colors, which they retained until the push for complete dieselization caused a third repaint back into freight blue. And so this trend continued until Santa Fe finally clarified locomotive assignments. So paint swapping depending on assignments was not unheard of. Quite a few former passenger units ended service in freight duty (PAs excepted), retaining former passenger colors. Amtrak keep a fleet operating upon startup with only new lettering hastly spray painted on. Santa Fe, meanwhile was rebuilding the remaining suitable F units into CF7 or retiring them enmass and all would be gone by 1973. Actually, cost wise the rebuilding program was overall less then new purchases in those recession years. SF had too large a roster not to rebuild, its interesting to note that switcher replacement was at the top of the wish list. So Tom, if you and I are on the same page, there were examples of yellow/silver, blue paint deleated F units. Whew..I could use that brew now if you please. Dave
QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 17:21:24 G'day West Coast S Dave Appreciate the insight regarding the Santa Fe livery of the times ... really does clear it up a bit. Somewhere inside of me is this perfectionist of sorts, kinda like an anal personality that rears (no pun intended!) up when I see something like a passenger colored loco pullling a fregiht. [tdn] Well, [yeah]I know, who really gives a rat's patoot [?]I do! Two brews comin' up - one for you and one for me! Tom
QUOTE: West Coast S Posted: 27 July 2005, 18:05:11 We give a rat's patoot that's who At least freight duty kept them alive for a few more years. I curse those which demoted the Alco PA to freight duty (that's my unsolicited opinion you EL fans). And the Pennsy-Penn Central , shame on you. E units on coal drags Dave
QUOTE: siberianmo Posted: 27 July 2005, 19:29:05 Big ditto for West Coast S Dave Perhaps we need to form a Rat's Patoot Club within the framework of "Our" Place! By the way, the mere reading or sound of Penn Central tightens my jowls! [tdn]An abomination, I tell ya - an absolute railroad tragedy. I need a brew, a very large and bottomless brew ....... Tom
QUOTE: Theodorebear Posted: 27 Jul 2005, 21:40:13 Ah, just in time for "last call." Please just an Anisette on the rocks for a night cap. I'm caught up on the panic house "work detail." Tom, this is my second eldest Nephew. The American Flyer orphan is the the eldest. Strangely, the two younger of the three, never took a remote interest in model R.R.ing. I was away in the service during their youthful years, so couldn't guide them along. I found the exchange between Dave and Tom compelling. It is terribly depressing to witness once regal passenger service and equipment slowly degenerate into disuse and finally, abuse. I realize all things must "go the way of all flesh," however, I believe the R.R.'s got a really "raw deal" post W.W. I and II. The multi billion dollar Interstate Programs initiated by Eisenhower (Robert Moses) and huge subsidies for the airlines and airports after America's R.R's had exhausted their resources on "the war effort;" sealed their doom (passenger). The Industry was still paying paralyzing taxes on every foot of their right-of-way while forced to serve uneconomic routes (mail contracts), then the labor union disputes delivered the final coup de grace.[soapbox] The Federal Gov.t's gratitude was free multi lane, limited access hiways coast to coast so cars, trucks and buses could match or beat R.R. time schedules. Let's don't blame the private R.R. owners for submitting to those kind of odds. Great discussions at "Our" Place, on or...[#offtopic] Okay Leon, clang the bell. Lucky for me there is just the town drunk left here and old Marlow is sound asleep. G'Night all, Ted
QUOTE: Gunns Posted: 27 Jul 2005, 22:21:42 Hi all, Coffee and pastrey for me, Just got up, and am otw to work. I'll read the summaries, and get back to Ya'll after rounds at work. One photo..... http://www.railimages.com/gallery/kevinevans/abd Gunns
QUOTE: passengerfan Posted: 27 Jul 2005, 22:30:00 Good evening All Just time for a quick Crown Royal with water back and a round for the house. A special thanks to trolleyboy for the tip he gave me sometime ago on the Canadian Trackside Guide from Bytown. Finally received my copy yesterday in the mail and have been completely absorbed in the book ever since. Best $25.00 I have spent in a long time on a publication with so much information that peaks my particular interest. Tom They even have a PARK car for sale through VIAS asset disposal. Actually it is the former D&RGW SILVER SKY they bought to convert to HEP and just set it aside. This car featured a shower in the drawing room annex something the Park cars were never built with. Of course neither was the SILVER SKY originally equipped with the shower in the Drawing Room annex it was added later. I have ridden SILVER SKY when it was operated in the RIO GRANDE ZEPHYR and the Bedrooms and Drawing room were taken apart while in this service but all of the easily assembled parts were shipped to Canada with the car when it was sold to VIA. Tom that would be nicer than an RDC to own. Don't know what kind of shape it would be in but would be interesting to find out. Well will close for now I am going to bury myself in the book again.
QUOTE: trolleyboy Posted: 27 Jul 2005, 22:45:08 Good evening fellows. Leon I will grab a Harps a pull up my stool next to Ted he seems to still be semi conscious. Dave & Tom wonderful stuff on the rebuilding and paint jobs. I'm glad you mentioned the CF7's, not a pretty site to be sure but look at all the extra mileage they managed to pull out of those old F's, some are still going today. Just shows the ingenuity of the rail shops. I remember CN & CP's mass rebuilds of the GP9's up here as well, most units are still with us 50+ years on. Both CDN roads have the largest (original GP fleets still intact from purchase) Who can forget the mass rebuildings of GP's and early SD's by the Paducah shops of ICG fame. Lots of the GP8 & 10 units they turned out still in shortline service today, I see two or three of the EX SP GP9's that ICG rebuilt to GP10's up here on a local shortline handling a steel slab train! Coalminer I grew up with CN predominantly, their line to the Port Weller dry docks ran through the back 40 of my grade school and through the subdivision I lived in. Yup mid 70's to late 80's it wasn't uncommon to see the weird CN power pulling the steel plate and rolls and the occasional boiler to the drydocks. HH RS18's.HH GP9's ( before the Pt ST Charles rebuilds ) even GMD1's and s13's. Of coarse all these freight spurs in St Catharines were inherited by CN when they absorbed the NS&T electric territories in 1960 and dieselized them. A hint as to why I'm found of the juice. (Take note Tom some of the back story you wanted a while back) In fact most of the street rail in West St Catharines (Merriton) and Thorold still lope along on 90lbs girder rail in places. Interesting to note that the short line that handles the switching there now uses the same ex CN S13's for the locals, and yes they still pull an old Pte St Charles caboose along with them ( city bylaw must have a tail end crew to guard street crossings ) CP lives in Welland and Niagara falls not far from my original home town as well so I'm a closet CP fan as well (these lines are of course the old TH&B lines) Research and family history and general love of history and all things old sucked me into the vortex of the electric lines in Ontario and to a lesser extent the rest of the country and the US. As an aside even if you are not a trolley fan per say, grab a copy of Great Lakes trolley's from morning sun books. It covers all the major great lake boardering systems both side of the boarder. Lots of good NS&T, TTC, Cleveland , Chicago you name it good stuff. The second reason I love the electrics was my great uncle Wilf. He was an NS&T employee (hired on in 1940) He was a car maintenance guy.after the 1960 closing down of the electric system he finished his days fixing busses for St Catharines transit. Got a tour of the original ST Catharines Welland Ave Bus barns which in their heyday were the main repair facility for the NS&T. Too bad they were torn down in the early 80's when St Catharines transit built a new bus facility It was a beautiful turn of the century ( last one ) brick carbarn. The final nail in my traction coffin was meeting my lovely wife and her family who as a family have been involved at the museum since 1972. I can't say I was dragged kicking and screaming, the chance at actually operating a vintage streetcar was a no brainer .Mom and dad hated taking me to Toronto when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's cause I'd always want to ride the streetcars and subway. So Tom there you have it the condenced why of why I'm such a "juice head" anywho catch everyone tomorrow. Rob
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