Scranton, PA, 1949 - 1950

[daveklepper]

And sone work in improving the "Laural Line Bridge" photo:

[daveklepper]

Another Dunmore Suburban  Line photo:

 

[daveklepper]

Thanks Joe and Pennsylvania and everyone else.

Joe:   Rish Allman is probably the best third party for messages to me in the future.  Thers are also Russ Jackson and Jack May.

I will have no problem in writing you directly, simply be immediately deleting the message after it is sent.  I'm told that works OK for safety.

Sorry foir misinterpreting your suggestion as a demand.  But if you read what you sent, you may conclude that you couuld have phrased it just a bit more politely.  Thanks.

[Joseph Frank]

Hi Pennytrains!

Thanks for your support and understanding. Should I think that R C I are the initials of 3 major countries (shown abreviated)  -  ie:  Rus - Chin - Iran -- heh .

Anyway, sorry to see Dave having experienced so much inconvenience over all this stuff. 

If you are not familiar with me,  here is my website of my O-Scale NY City Transit EL, Subway And Trolley Layout and  modeling -- link to here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/44268069@N00/albums

 

Regards - Joe F

[pennytrains]

It's probably not either of you Joe and Dave but rather a bad actor far away from anyone either of you know personally that's piggybacking on your data feeds and stealing (hijacking) your intellectual properties.  I can think of several places where this sort of thing is not only tolerated, but outright encouraged.  If you "R"ead between the lines you may "C" what "I" am suggesting.  

[Overmod]

anglecock

It's sad to see the New Jersey Central Station sitting vacant and falling apart when it is sitting in the middle of town and would make a great restaurant

Pro Tip: It's either 'Central [Railroad] of New Jersey" or just "Jersey Central".

[Joseph Frank]

Hi Dave

 

Great set of current Scranton Photos you just posted.  I liked the one with the Laurel Line overpass and its lighted sign !

 

Well, per your reply, thats quite a bit better info on this Yeshiva issue..  Thanks for that heads-up and I will check it out -- I wonder which one of my contacts is causing this trouble to you.  You must realize it is not coming or caused directly from me.  I will do some research.

I understand your concern now and as you likely are aware, there are countless malevolent hackers who are everywhere worldwide and into everything commercial and residential, public and private. I am going to check with my NYC Transit Modelers Group forum to see if any of my 250 plus forum members have experienced any similar strange events as to what you have.

Photo editing -- my emails to you did NOT accuse at all, but in fact only SUGGESTED that you use someone you know who can do a cleaner job than that of some of your photo editing attempts.  I don't recall offering my services to you but if you asked me I would have done so in friendship.  But with this "Yeshiva" situation - well, perhaps not as such a good idea with the situation.  You stated that you have Rich Allman, whom I long know from EPTC CLUB ,  who does a good photo-editing job for you, and  thats a good start. I was only trying to help you. But readers can see your editing results quite plainly as I did.

PS: A heads up TO YOU also --- on your email friends contact list of which my email address is also seen at top portion upon,  you inserted your email address on the very bottom end of that list, and  quite as very long as its been seen, as typed in and installed by you ---as

" [e-mail] "  Its a BAD ADDRESS, that you typed incorrectly.  It is the same email list of recipients I see when I get your email postings to / via your contacts list --- and that I respond "reply all" to via that same list.  I suggest you correct that yahoo address or remove it and replace with a different one.

Finally, I am using this contact method HERE (forum) solely because you stated your server (Yeshiva) has an issue with emails from me to you.

I agree you and I should put this issue to rest here and now on the forum for the sake of the forum --- but you initiated it with the comments about the "Yeshiva Threat" - and I responded obviously solely to get more details.  Thanks for all the info and thanks for, and continue posting, all those great photos and your historical comments!!!  Regards - Joe F

[daveklepper]

Now back to the "Electric City," Sc ranton:

Two on with a power plant seen from both directions, passing 501 each time.

Are not the tracks on this bridge actually DL&W, with the sign announcing what is located beyond?

Back downtown on Wyoming Avenue:

And tw on Green Ridge Suburban:

 

 

 

[daveklepper]

The previous two postings, Joe Frank's and my reply, are obviously off-topic.  I do not wish to see this thread locked, and hope to recover masny more intersting negatives to scan and  repair and post.  I can live  with the present c situation, but if the moderator sees a problem, if other readers see a prioblem, I'll be happy to use the edit botton to delete the content of all my off-topic posts on this thread if joe is prohibited from furthering his argument on this thread.

[daveklepper]

The only explanaition I can give you is that certain photos, that I took 60 -75 tears ago and spent lots of time repairing, suddenly dissapeared from my computer.  Some are still missing.  Some were returned by others claiming the were screenshots.  Some i replaced by copying off this website, where I had posted them via Imgur.

This does not in anyway mean that you are responsible.  But one of your contacts, even one you have not heard from in some time, was using your contact with me to enter my computer.

The crypto experts at the server want to protect me.  That is my analysis of the situation.   And there is absolutely no way you csn convince me your contacts directly with me are benign.  Your friendshiop is simply not as important as my ability to use the computer at the Yeshiva with safety.  And there were instances when I had to do program repair work.

As far as the friendship itself, you accused me of doing a bad job of editing my photos and that I should send them to a professional or YOU.  I leave it to readers as to whether I am doing a bad job.

Other readers can contact me to learn who and why certain people would like me to be unable to communicate.  Recall that for years I had permission from three Orthodox Rabbis to help churches with acoustics problems, but one group feels they should be the sole contact netween religious Christians and Jews.  My favorite American song is "Simple Gifts." found in most Christian Hymnals and also enjoyed when I sing it at my Yeshiva.  Here are the words, also in Hebrew and Arabic:

FOR YOUR HOLIDAY JOY

 

'TIS THE GIFT TO BE SIMPLE HAMATTANAH LIHIYOT PASHUUT            ILHADIYYA TSIIR BASITTE

   'TIS THE GIFT TO BE FREE    HAMATTANAH LIHIYOT HOFSHII              ILHADIYYA TSIIR FADIYYE

'TIS THE GIIFT TO COME DOWN           HAMATTANAH LESHEVET                       ILHADDIYA TUQgUD

   WHERE YOU OUGHT TO BE                BAMAKOM HAHETOV SHELII                   FI LMAHAL MABSUTILI

AND WHEN YOU FIND YOURSELF       KISHETIMTSAA HAMAKOM                      WLAAMEN BITLAAQIIK

  IN THE PLACE JUST RIGHT    HAHETOV SHELHA                                  FI MAHALAK IDDURI

IT WILL BE IN THE VALLEY                   TIHIYYEH BAMAKOM                               BITSSIIR FI LWADI

  OF LOVE AND DELIGHT                       BI'AHAVAH VIHATZLIHAH                        ILHUBBI WISSURUURI

WHEN TRUE SIMPLICITY'S     KISHEHAPASHUT HANIHONAH     LAMMA LBASAATA SSAHIIHE

  ATTAINED                                            TIMTSAA                                                 BITLAAQI

TO BOW AND TO BEND                        HAHISHTAHAVUUT                   TISARREF ITTAANI

  YOU SHAN'T BE ASHAMED   LO TIHIYYEH LIHA DOHAH                       MISH ILAK gAATELI

TO TURN AND TO TURN                        LISAVOV, LISAVOV                                 TIDUUR WTIDUUR

  WILL BE THY DELIGHT                         YIHIYYEH LIHA ASHASHAH                     YSSIIR ILAK KAgKE

'TILL BY TURNING RIGHT AROUND       AD SHETISSAVOV BIMAAGUL                 LAHAD BITDUUR FI LHAWWAL

  YOU'LL COME OUT RIGHT.                   VITAITZAI YASHAAR                                WBITLAAg SSAHIIH

 

H = soft kh, like Hanukah and Haifa        H = hard kh, like "barukh atah..."     g =  Arabic Ayin, a very soft almost silent gh.   R =  the French r, almost an rgh.      Q = very soft, almost silent.   SH used together are one consonant

 

 

 

Thanks to the Shakers for the English Language song, and the Hebrew and Arabic interpretations and transliterations are in honor and memory of William Warfield and Aaron Copeland.  I thank the teachers who corrected my homework.

 

 

 

 

 

[Joseph Frank]

Dave -- that comment is pure fantasy nonsense !!!.  Do please explain what and why specifically "Yeshiva's Crypto Experts" regard me as a threat -- and a threat to whom ?? . What is their specific reason they allegedly stated as a threat as you claim / wrote ?

(Isn't crypto related to crypto money-currency ??!)  

They don't know me and I don't know them and there is no basis nor reason for such a claim. 

Others I disussed your Yeshiva "threat" comment reply with,  all stated its likely just pure nonsense from you only. Suddenly this issue comes up only in the last week or so after more than a year or so of email friendly correspondence between you and I ??!! Unbelievable !   Regards - Joe F

[daveklepper]

I think he is referring to the Scranton CNJ station, not the Jersey City Terminal.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The former Jersey City terminal is part of Liberty State Park so it is rather unlikely that it would be repackaged in such a way.

[anglecock]

It's sad to see the New Jersey Central Station sitting vacant and falling apart when it is sitting in the middle of town and would make a great resterant

[daveklepper]

But more work was needed on 410 Wyoming Avenue, Downtown, so herewith:

[daveklepper]

I do get lkots of help from Richard Allman.  He appreciates what I do in remedying gross imperfections, and I admire his ability at shading.  He found detail in this photo I did not knoiw was there:

Here we worked together for further improvement:

Similarly here:

 

[daveklepper]

The Crypto experts at the Yeshiva's server do regard you as a threat.

The  experience with the photo on the Third Avene Lightweight thread of two Yonkers 301s  lined up at Gettys Square Sqare, the front on the Number 6 Line, and possibly similar incidents, may possibly be related.  Or not.  They have not  replied.

When I try to use the link, it dissapears from the screen,

I don't think I need your help in editing photos.  Others  can use the link and may think differently.

[Joseph Frank]

Dave -- below is the photo I corrected -- in link below from a photo hosting site.

Click the link, and click on the photo that comes up to get a larger size view.  Hope this works.

<< CLICK LINK (Downtown Scranton photo Joe Frank corrected)

Thanks for the info on the problem / issue via your Yeshiva server. 

Odd that after a year or so of our back and forth emails,  this issue only came up after my private email to you a few days ago about issues with some of your photo editing processes. You have never mentioned this "yeshiva server" issue as happening previous to that !!!  regards - Joe F

 

[daveklepper]

MThe server at the Yeshicva won't let me use your link.  The server is also probably related to the problems I have with email from yo.  You can post telf she picture itself  by using Imgur or another regular photo wesite.

The problem with your input into my email box is that I get a  disconnet from the web.

[Joseph Frank]

Dave -- I instructed you a short while ago to tell me what exactly in detail is your "problem" with / when  receiving my emails as no one else on these  forums nor on any email lists (yours and other lists) has informed me of any tech or other problems from or receiving my emails -- 

 

PS:  I already posted my cleaned up photo-version here on this thread (a LINK to open it) just previously, and sent you a day ago an email copy of it which you received and replied to me.  Open the photo link and compare.  You may use my better version as you wish. . 

Thanks - regards - Joe F

[daveklepper]

I told youthat I have a computer problem that apparently surfaces only with your messages and one other (former) correrspondant, and that to contact me, use a third party.  Here is my own "cleaned-up" version, and you are welcome to post your version in another postging below, if you believe it is an improvement on my work.

[Joseph Frank]

Dave - here is the link to view my Cleaned up version of the Downtown Scranton Photo --- a copy which I sent you a few days ago. I also added the cropped off from the original - left and right tiny missing edges. LINK HERE > 

Compare with the version you did and just posted.  Regards - Joe F

 

[daveklepper]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[daveklepper]

More to come

[daveklepper]

Location information from Richard Allman:

Nay Aug Park Line photoe:

411-Nay Aug Park Corner-on Vine Street, inbound about to turn south onto Prescott. And there is clue to the time-the license plate on the car on the left, with dark letters on yellow plate is an odd-numbered year plate-January or December 1949?    (DLK:  Dec. '49)

411-Nay Aug Park switch-inbound, turning from single track on Vine Street onto double track onto Prescott Street-suspect that you took the prior photo then ran (through the slush) to the other side of Prescott Street for this photo.

Dunmore  Suburban Photos:

418 Siding-car appears to be signed for Petersburg-either Prescott Street or Mulberry Street-long stretches of double track

501-Dunmore Suburban-hard to localize since so much of the line as double track. This was a fairly flat stretch-atypical for Scranton, but will need more time to determine.

The view 501 Dunmore Suburban is either Washington Street, Electric Street, or Drinker Street. Not Washington Street (almost certain) and if you were like most fans, especially on a miserable day, you rode to the end of the line, walked a stretch inbound, caught a couple photos, then rode back to the city center. And the houses look more like in Dunmore, though probably a lot of change in intervening 70+ years.

And for the views of car 411, correction-Prescott Avenue, not Street-sorry for error.

 

 

[pennytrains]

Classic.  That's the only way to describe these images.  Although I would also add "civilized" to the question of what kind of transportation the cars provided.

[daveklepper]

Two on Nay Aug Park Line, then two on Dunmore Suburban:

 

 

[daveklepper]

You are entirely correct for all the home-built lightweights.  The convertables, two-motor cars, had different ciontrollers, and some (at least) had handles that were removable in the off position.  But the brake systern was the same in operation.. 

551-625, (the double-end Peter-Witt "Huffliners" for Broadway-42nd St.) )at least for  a while, had a button that would open the left exit door.

I forgot one other task of the TARS-TATS operator.  Except on 551-625, carrying the short one-fat-leg stool  from one end of the car to the other, along with the hardware.   On 551-625 thecwood seat "cushion" was supported by an angled canterlever bracket  off the front wall.  The "cushion" was folded against the bracket, and  then the bracket pivoted against the wall under the left front window next to the handbrake.

In 1944, age 12, my parents decided I needed dancing lessons to be socially acceptable in high-school and college.    Arthur Murry's Dance Studio was at 44th Street and Madison Avenue.  To be on time for my lesson, I'd go from Columbia Gammar School on 93rd St. to the 96th St, C. P. West station and board the first downtown local.  If it was a BB, I'd ride to 42nd and 6th.  On a CC, i get off at 59th, Columbus Circle and board a D or a BB, which ever came first.

Going home, with no need to rush, I'd walk to the  streetcar stop on 42nd St midway between 5th and 6th.  Soon enough a  Huffliner short-turned at 5th Avenue (instead of proceeding to 1st), woul come through the trailing-point crossover, and I'd board the rapidly-filling arriving-empty car.  Usually, I'd be lucky.  The operator wanted  to "change-ends" fast, and neglected to fold-away his stool. and I'd enjoy an "observation-car" ride to 84th & Broadway.

When I wanted a similar observation-car ride on a Richmond, VA Ginter Park Line  double-truck lightweight, I was taught, by a well-dressed Black lady, about Jim Crow.  "Sonny, the rear of the car is for Black (N?) folks, go to the front and join the white people."

Quote  from RC:  TARS cars with KB-2A line breakers (Seashore's 631 is an example) didn't have removable controller handles.  The KB-2A allows the operator to place the controller in first point and then "jiggle" the handle on the KB-2A for very fine control without using the points in the controller.

Since the normal position of the brake pedals was full apply, actuating either one would release the brakes.   Some cars were set up so that placing the controller in reverse would open what would be the right front door on the other end of the car.

DLK reply: We did not jiggle the line-switch itself.  We controlled it by jiggling with the foot-pedel.   Lifting the foot slightly opens the line swirch without applying any braking effort.

Very useful when putting the car in the carhouse to creep up to another to stop with a few unches separation, without danger of contact.   But on TARS-TATS, the main use was in slowly-moving heavy traffic.

  

[rcdrye]

TARS cars with KB-2A line breakers (Seashore's 631 is an example) didn't have removable controller handles.  The KB-2A allows the operator to place the controller in first point and then "jiggle" the handle on the KB-2A for very fine control without using the points in the controller.

Since the normal position of the brake pedals was full apply, actuating either one would release the brakes.   Some cars were set up so that placing the controller in reverse would open what would be the right front door on the other end of the car.