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Scranton, PA, 1949 - 1950

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Scranton, PA, 1949 - 1950
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, December 31, 2020 1:56 PM

 

 

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Posted by pennytrains on Thursday, December 31, 2020 6:41 PM

Beautiful!  The one of car 509 in front of Thompson's Pharmacy looks like it was posed by Link!  Big SmileThumbs Up

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, December 31, 2020 7:31 PM

David, seriously, is there anyplace you haven't  been?

Great shot, loved them all!  A good look at a saner time, that's for certain!

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Posted by seppburgh2 on Thursday, December 31, 2020 8:46 PM
All I can Dave is WOW! Thanks for giving us a new look back on main street street caring. Happy New Year and keep on posting!
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, January 1, 2021 4:07 AM

Fintlock, to read and view great photos of someone who has been far more streetcar-frienndly places than I have been, visit the Trains Transit Forum, and pull up my postings on Jack May's visits.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, January 1, 2021 9:35 AM

Thanks David, I'll do that, but I still find it hard to believe someone's been to more rail action sites than you have!  

Seems to me you started at the "American Railroads" display at the 1939 Worlds Fair and haven't stopped since!

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Posted by Fr.Al on Saturday, January 2, 2021 10:48 AM

David, I'm sure you remember the O&W. When I began my seminary studies in 1972, there were still traces of it in Carbondale, about 15-20 miles north of Scranton. Recent trips show that just about eveything is gone. You probably know that Carbondale wouldn't let the O&W build through the town, so they built over the town! A Carbondale restaurant that my late wife and I used to frequent back in the day, was the old station.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, January 2, 2021 12:41 PM

I probably did see the restaurant, but 70 years is a long time to remember the ispecifics.  station/

Another thread has a picture or two at the D&H Carbondale.  Still had passenger service to and from Scranton in 1950.

 

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Posted by Fr.Al on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 11:55 AM

Having reread my post,I realize, David, that I didn't acurately write what i meant to say. I was fishing around for your memories of the O&W itself. I wouldn't expect you to remember about that restaurant either. I am sure by 1950, the O&W DIDN'T have passenger service on the Scranton division. I have the one book on that line in my library. The late Jim Shaughnessy got some nice pictures of the line shortly before it sut down for good in 1957. They were in CT sometime in the last decade.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 2, 2021 8:47 AM

Excerpt from Email receoved:


Richard Allman

AttachmentsAug 1, 2021, 9:18 PM (19 hours ago)
 
 
to prtptc17me
Charlie-attached are the photos that David Lloyd Klepper generous donated to Electric City Trolley Museum Association.
372-2 Scranton Transit Co. 372 in yard at Providence Rd. with Mulberry Street bridge in background
401-2 Turning onto Lackawanna Avenue from ?
411-2 in front of Providence Road car house
411 switch-2 on siding with Providence lead from Mulberry St. bridge and Providence Road CH in background
502-2, 502A-2, 502C-1 All inbound on Providence Road about to enter PRW on Mulberry Street bridge
507-2 On Calpouse Avenue -unsure if end of double track or on the siding on Green Ridge Peoples
508-2 Lackawanna Avenue-? @ Wyoming Avenue?
509A-2 Sanderson Road terminus of Green Ridge Peoples line at curb-obviously looking the way shadows are falling and clock says 5:30 and people dressed for summer-definite future calendar candidate! Traced location on Goggle maps but unfortunately all of these buildings are long gone.
 
 
RICH
 
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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 2, 2021 8:58 AM

The photo that Rich mentioned that I had not posted, car 401 turning onto Lackawanna Avenue from?:

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, February 25, 2022 7:32 AM

southsideTwo from December, 1949. Southsid Line :

 

 

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Posted by mvlandsw on Saturday, February 26, 2022 9:49 PM

Why does 401 have both poles up?

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, February 27, 2022 7:19 AM

It's "changing ends" with the operator moving to controls on the other end.  The second pole is raised first so that pulling the first pole off the wire won't create an arc, which the current drawn by lights, heat or the compressor would cause even with the motors shut off.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, February 27, 2022 8:03 AM

Answering your question:  Because it's the line's terminal, and  the operator is in the process of "changinhg ends."

You can watch this pocedure in most trolley miseums, those that don'l, like Baltimpre, have loops at both ends or just run on a distirted circle.

The operator brings the  car to a  stop with a regular smooth service braking application and the front-right door open,  He then applies full baking effort.  He moves the revesal key to the nuetral postition, then exits  via the  front right door and raises the pole. which was at the front and will be at the rear.

He reboards the car and removes the reverse key, and in some cases the brake handle as well.  He shuts the right-front door without releasing the brake.  He carries the "hardware" to the other end of the car, and as he walks down the center aisle, he flips the backs of the reversable seats.

At the new front end, he inserts the hardware, leaving the brakes applied and the reverse key in neutral and opens what is now the front right door.  He  exits, pulls down and secures what was the pole at the rear, reboards the car, and moves the reverse key to forward. After boarding passengers and  collecxting or checking fares, he closes the door, releases the brakes and  advances the controller.

The  reverser kry can be removed only in the neutral position, and the brake handle or pedel only in the full-application positionh.

Note location correction on the previous posting.

 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, February 27, 2022 12:27 PM

Thanks for the much more complete sequence. 

daveklepper
The  reverser kry can be removed only in the neutral position, and the brake handle or pedel only in the full-application positionh.

Most brake handles come off in "lap" or the position between release and apply where no air is moving.  On some older cars the controller handle itself gets moved to the other end.

The reverser "key" has three positions, forward, off, and reverse.  The controller handle can only be moved with the key in the forward or reverse position.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, February 28, 2022 4:33 AM

What you posted seems contrary to both maximnum safety and my own experience in operating cars at Shore Line Trolley and (foot pedal) at Third Avenue.

On the Connecticut Company opens and Brooklyn convertable 4573, removing the controlkler handle did not relate mechanically to the position of the reverser.     But we were instructed to put the reverser in neutral first.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, February 28, 2022 9:14 AM

Of course the reverse key could not be moved from one position to another, unless the controller itself was in the  "off" (no pwer) position.

What you describe seems accuratee  for some or most one-man cars with self-laspping hand-control brakes.

Branford's (SLT's) Johnstown 357 was the car I would rarely run of that type.

The opens were two-man cars, and did not self-lkapping brakes.

Ditto for 4573, but we always ran it safely as a one-man car.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, February 28, 2022 9:02 PM

Also, my description of changing ends applies to streetcars having only straight-air air-brakes.  The brake handles directly operate valves admitting air from the air-tank to the brake cylinders, similarly Third vAvenue's and Omaha's foot=prdel, raised to apply and depressed completely to release.

For cars equipped for MU. obviously the brake handle must be in neutral when removed, or "pumping-up" when putting the car back into service would be complicated, because of the reduction in train-line pressure means brake application.  Thereis no train-line pipe with straight-air, single-car operation.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 3, 2022 2:45 PM

RC is correct about the hardware of the Scranton carsm

Straight-air d9ouble-endone pipe from the air-tank to the brake cylinders, or in parallel with separate pipes for each of the two valves.  The fitst case requires that the valve be open, brakes fully applied, before the handle is removed, while the second requires thec valve to be closed m the neutral position/  Self=lapping streetcar brake systems were mostly of the second type, so RC is correct. 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, March 3, 2022 4:26 PM

Straight air cars for the most part do not have self-lapping brakes. 

On simple straight air cars the brake stands are normally set so the lap position is the middle, with apply to the right and release to the left.  Brakes are applied by taking a "bite" (moving the handle to apply) and then returning to lap to hold the set braking level.

With self-lapping brakes the actuator (handle or pedal) is more like a car's brake pedal in that the amount of braking is set by the actuator's position. Cars with safety brakestands often had the door control integrated with the brakestand. TARS cars with foot operated brakes were self-lapping. 

With train air the brake handle position is more or less the same, but the function is reversed, with "apply" releasing air from the trainline, and "release" allowing air into the trainline.  There are both standard and self-lapping types of train air.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 6, 2022 9:45 AM

Again, TARS-TATS foot-operated brakes are lift foot to apply and depress to release.  So, somehow, they are both self-lapping and in series.  Because, I assure you, one cannot remove the brake pedal unless it is at full height, meaning full application.

 

Coming to a terminal on a Third Avenue Transit pokle-equipped car, the procedure was:

Come to stop, including gradual release to prevent a "stone-wall" stop.  The moment the car stops ompletely, release the pedal for a full ap;plication, which will also automatically open the front door and  allow a passenger to stand on the rear-door treadle to opn it.   Do not remove the pedal.  Do move the reverser key to neutral and  remove it.

When all passengers have left, exit the front door, raise what will now be the rear pole and  reboard the car.

Tap the prdal very lightly, which closes the front door, and the rear if it is open, without releasing the brakes.  Remove the pedal and, on older cars only (not sure about this) the cointroller handle) and carry all the "hardware" to the  other end  of the car, while flipping alll the seat-backs.  Insert pedal, and also the handle if applicable.  Tap the pedal with greater strength to open the door on the rebound, or if on a grade, use the door open button, openig the front door,  Exit, lower and secure what  was the rear pole, enter the car, insert the reverse key, move to forward, check to insure the line-switch overhead is OK, and begin loading passengers.

When all passengers are loaded and fares collected, release the brakes completely by pressing the pedal to floor while simultaneously applying one point of powe, no more.  The door will close.  Advance the  controller slowly, not all at once, to reach the proper speed, and then back-off to full series if full parallel is faster than desired.  Continuous running on anything but point one, full sxeries, or full parallel was discouraged.

On conduit lines, same minus pole hadling and the need to leave the car.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, March 6, 2022 12:36 PM

TARS cars with KB-2A line breakers (Seashore's 631 is an example) didn't have removable controller handles.  The KB-2A allows the operator to place the controller in first point and then "jiggle" the handle on the KB-2A for very fine control without using the points in the controller.

Since the normal position of the brake pedals was full apply, actuating either one would release the brakes.   Some cars were set up so that placing the controller in reverse would open what would be the right front door on the other end of the car.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 7, 2022 11:50 AM

You are entirely correct for all the home-built lightweights.  The convertables, two-motor cars, had different ciontrollers, and some (at least) had handles that were removable in the off position.  But the brake systern was the same in operation.. 

551-625, (the double-end Peter-Witt "Huffliners" for Broadway-42nd St.) )at least for  a while, had a button that would open the left exit door.

I forgot one other task of the TARS-TATS operator.  Except on 551-625, carrying the short one-fat-leg stool  from one end of the car to the other, along with the hardware.   On 551-625 thecwood seat "cushion" was supported by an angled canterlever bracket  off the front wall.  The "cushion" was folded against the bracket, and  then the bracket pivoted against the wall under the left front window next to the handbrake.

In 1944, age 12, my parents decided I needed dancing lessons to be socially acceptable in high-school and college.    Arthur Murry's Dance Studio was at 44th Street and Madison Avenue.  To be on time for my lesson, I'd go from Columbia Gammar School on 93rd St. to the 96th St, C. P. West station and board the first downtown local.  If it was a BB, I'd ride to 42nd and 6th.  On a CC, i get off at 59th, Columbus Circle and board a D or a BB, which ever came first.

Going home, with no need to rush, I'd walk to the  streetcar stop on 42nd St midway between 5th and 6th.  Soon enough a  Huffliner short-turned at 5th Avenue (instead of proceeding to 1st), woul come through the trailing-point crossover, and I'd board the rapidly-filling arriving-empty car.  Usually, I'd be lucky.  The operator wanted  to "change-ends" fast, and neglected to fold-away his stool. and I'd enjoy an "observation-car" ride to 84th & Broadway.

When I wanted a similar observation-car ride on a Richmond, VA Ginter Park Line  double-truck lightweight, I was taught, by a well-dressed Black lady, about Jim Crow.  "Sonny, the rear of the car is for Black (N?) folks, go to the front and join the white people."

Quote  from RC:  TARS cars with KB-2A line breakers (Seashore's 631 is an example) didn't have removable controller handles.  The KB-2A allows the operator to place the controller in first point and then "jiggle" the handle on the KB-2A for very fine control without using the points in the controller.

Since the normal position of the brake pedals was full apply, actuating either one would release the brakes.   Some cars were set up so that placing the controller in reverse would open what would be the right front door on the other end of the car.

DLK reply: We did not jiggle the line-switch itself.  We controlled it by jiggling with the foot-pedel.   Lifting the foot slightly opens the line swirch without applying any braking effort.

Very useful when putting the car in the carhouse to creep up to another to stop with a few unches separation, without danger of contact.   But on TARS-TATS, the main use was in slowly-moving heavy traffic.

  
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, July 7, 2022 2:03 AM

Two on Nay Aug Park Line, then two on Dunmore Suburban:

 

 

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Posted by pennytrains on Thursday, July 7, 2022 7:23 PM

Classic.  That's the only way to describe these images.  Although I would also add "civilized" to the question of what kind of transportation the cars provided.

Big Smile  Same me, different spelling!  Big Smile

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, July 8, 2022 1:17 AM

Location information from Richard Allman:

Nay Aug Park Line photoe:

411-Nay Aug Park Corner-on Vine Street, inbound about to turn south onto Prescott. And there is clue to the time-the license plate on the car on the left, with dark letters on yellow plate is an odd-numbered year plate-January or December 1949?    (DLK:  Dec. '49)
411-Nay Aug Park switch-inbound, turning from single track on Vine Street onto double track onto Prescott Street-suspect that you took the prior photo then ran (through the slush) to the other side of Prescott Street for this photo.
Dunmore  Suburban Photos:
418 Siding-car appears to be signed for Petersburg-either Prescott Street or Mulberry Street-long stretches of double track
501-Dunmore Suburban-hard to localize since so much of the line as double track. This was a fairly flat stretch-atypical for Scranton, but will need more time to determine.
The view 501 Dunmore Suburban is either Washington Street, Electric Street, or Drinker Street. Not Washington Street (almost certain) and if you were like most fans, especially on a miserable day, you rode to the end of the line, walked a stretch inbound, caught a couple photos, then rode back to the city center. And the houses look more like in Dunmore, though probably a lot of change in intervening 70+ years.
And for the views of car 411, correction-Prescott Avenue, not Street-sorry for error.
 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, July 8, 2022 1:37 AM

More to come

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 10, 2022 8:26 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Joseph Frank on Sunday, July 10, 2022 4:06 PM

Dave - here is the link to view my Cleaned up version of the Downtown Scranton Photo --- a copy which I sent you a few days ago. I also added the cropped off from the original - left and right tiny missing edges. LINK HERE >  Downton Scranton Photo

Compare with the version you did and just posted.  Regards - Joe F

 

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