Berkshires

[Overmod]

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Another couple of "Ohio Berkshires" that no one has mentioned are C&O #2700 in Dennison and 2776 in Washington Court House.

But of course those are not Berkshires.  And not from Ohio.

And of them, technically the most important by far is another Indiana sojourner, 2789 -- which I now find actually was supposed to have a public outing in mid-October -- pandemic or no pandemic, I'd have gone if I had known!  What a pity I can't strrrrrrrrretch out enough excuse to put that Kanawha in the august running for SLOO.

[doctorwayne]

Perhaps not among the well-known Berkshires, but my favourites of the type were the two that Montreal built for the TH&B, after they had tested one of the B&A's early Berks on the grade, out of Hamilton, up the Niagara Escarpment.   

I probably saw them (as a very young child) as the TH&B tracks, on an elevated right-of-way, ran right past our front porch on Hunter Street, a couple blocks east of the main TH&B station. 

They had Coffin feedwater heaters, too, but they were barely visible unless you knew they were there. 

My other favourites were the Central's Hudsons (the New York Central was a part owner, along with the CPR, of the TH&B).  The TH&B bought two Hudsons from the Central, but they were gone before I was old enough to fully appreciate them.  They too were scrapped at Stelco, in Hamilton, where I later spent my working life.

Wayne

[Overmod]

doctorwayne

... my favourites of the type were the two that Montreal built for the TH&B ...

Two of the most significant locomotives in Canada ... and two of the very nicest.

I believe there is a movie showing these being constructed.

[pennytrains]

Not a Berk, and not a Lima grad, but C & O Kanawha 2707 (a Van Sweringen loco at least) was here in the C-L-E from 1955 to 1981.  Unfortunately she was so abused (tagged) that she had tyo be given up.  I do however remember seeing her in 1976 in Brookside Park when we rode the Cuyahoga Valley Line down to Hale Farm and back.

Pics of 2707 at the park may be heartbreaking to view.  But here are a few at IRM: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=35169

[Flintlock76]

2707.  Wow.  Yikes and yuck!

Well, at least it's at the IRM and away from any further vandalism. I hope.  At least that's something. 

[MMLDelete]

I prefer Hudsons to Berkshires. To me it looks a bit off when an engine has fewer pilot wheels than trailing wheels.

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Lithonia Operator

I prefer Hudsons to Berkshires. To me it looks a bit off when an engine has fewer pilot wheels than trailing wheels.

 

One's a fast passenger engine and the other is for freight. Apples and oranges.

[Overmod]

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One's a fast passenger engine and the other is for freight.

Almost every Berkshire in Europe was a passenger engine.  The Russians even streamlined one and seem to have claimed to get it to the equivalent of 110mph (I think they're mixing it up with their streamlined penile Hudson, but don't know for sure...)

Many later Berkshires were perfectly capable of passenger-train speed for the railroads that used them -- Emmas being one case in point.  (I'll grant you that Hudsons were supposed to be much, much faster.)

Bet Lithonia doesn't like Prairies, the fastest conventional locomotives in the country at one time...

[IA and eastern]

Lima had a proposal to update older bershires with new frames and 69" drivers also to convert convert older bershires to 2-8-6s. Gary

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IA and eastern

... also to convert older Berkshires to 2-8-6s

Was that in Hirsimaki?  It might make a kind of convoluted sense, if they rebuilt the running gear to low-inertial-mass and put poppet valve gear on after the cast-frame conversion.  Judging (again) by what Frisco did in the late '40s to create locomotives like 1351, there would have been 'incentives' to rebuild older locomotives, starting along the lines of what T&P did to the 600s but extending, perhaps, to the suite of improvements C&NW made on the second go-round with the H engines, in 1948...

[Flintlock76]

Overmod

Prairies, the fastest conventional locomotives in the country at one time...

Well they were, but not for long.  If what I've read is true Prairies had a bad habit of "hunting" at high speeds and the head end crews found that wobbling a bit disconcerting, to say the least.  

So it was back to the four wheel lead trucks for passenger work. 

[IA and eastern]

The IC rebuilt steam locomotives but nobody else had much interest in big improvement in their locomotives.UP motive power wanted to rebuild 2-10-2s and 4-12-2s into more powerful locomotives but the board said new 4-6-6-4s or rebuilding older locomotives but not both. Other railroads had same ideal. Gary 

[gmpullman]

pennytrains

Pics of 2707 at the park may be heartbreaking to view.

C&O 2707 in happier times:

April_RR_C&O2707 by Edmund, on Flickr

That's me in dad's arms. Glad nobody blew the whistle!

There's an album here of first-hand experiences removing the 2707 from Brookside Park. It almost became what would have been front-page news!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24653690@N03/albums/72157629751418122

[  EDIT:  I added a different link. Try this one]

 Read the captions in sequence.

Cheers, Ed

[MMLDelete]

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Lithonia Operator

I prefer Hudsons to Berkshires. To me it looks a bit off when an engine has fewer pilot wheels than trailing wheels.

 

 

 

 

One's a fast passenger engine and the other is for freight. Apples and oranges.

 

 

Thats true, but I was just talking about looks. Looks is looks.

[Overmod]

gmpullman

There's an album here of first-hand experiences removing the 2707 from Brookside Park.

And it appears to be locked unless you are a Flickr member.

[MMLDelete]

I like Praries. Like Hudsons, they are balanced. That is, same number of pilot wheels as trailers.

I also like engines with more pilot wheels than trailers, like Pacifics.

But for sure, the Berks had their particular brutish beauty.

[Ben Klesc]

So here's a question I have for someone who is not too familiar with railroad history. When it comes to trains such as these Berkshires, were railroad companies themselves ever involved in building these or did they outsource the building to other companies. I saw a photograph the other day of a Penn Central employee at a factory riviiting a boxcar roof. That got me curious. 

[Flintlock76]

gmpullman

That's me in dad's arms. Glad nobody blew the whistle!

You ain't kiddin'!  Both you and your dad would have wound up in orbit! 

[pennytrains]

gmpullman

Glad nobody blew the whistle!

I'm hip!    I was filming alongside "2765" when it was doing the Steel City Express trips out of Akron and about wet myself when the whistle blew! 

[oldline1]

Wayne,

I have to agree the TH&B Berks were pretty handsome. 

oldline1

[rrnut282]

Ben,

Sure, some railroads built their own.  Pennsy built locomotives in Altoona and Fort Wayne, including thier famous K4 Pacifics.  Norfolk and Western built many of their late steam locomotives at Roanoke Js, Ks, As, and Ys, IIMN.  These are probably the most famous examples.  I'm sure there were others that escape me right now.  As for Berkshires, I can't think of any railroad that built their own.  

Pennsy also built cars in Fort Wayne, too.  Sadly, the shops, both locomotive and car were torn down for a post office building.  

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

SP at Sacramento and L&N at South Louisville also had some home-built steam.

[Jones1945]

I am not a big fan of Berkshires or steam engines initially designed for freight use, but Berkshires are indeed good looking. My favorite version is the NYC/P&LE 2-8-4 A-2-A; I love the front end design that reminds me of the Niagara. 

 

https://i.imgur.com/VD4QDSM.jpg

 

[Backshop]

I'm the exact opposite.  I started railfanning in about 1970, when the passenger train was about dead.  I always much preferred freights and the Berkshire has always been my favorite steam locomotive wheel arrangement.