Fateful Trip , passengers of Destiny.

[Flintlock76]

I'm glad you booted up the thread David, it's a blast from the past and I'd forgotten how much fun it was! 

[daveklepper]

With a new thread devoted to Irish Railways, I'm booting up this thread to make some fine photos easily available and a liמk to more.

[M636C]

daveklepper

Haven't we established that it is Dublin-Heuston and not Crewe?  Or did I miss  somthingt

 

Firstly, I should apologise for taking so long to answer this. I am having an apartment renovated, and I have been tied up with contractors for much of my time.

I have been as confused as anybody.

However, when I looked at an enlargement of the photo in question, there was an overhead bridge over the station just at the (North) end of the overall roof. Having checked as much as I could, I haven't found any evidence of an overhead bridge at Dublin Heuston station at any time.

Also, in the enlargement it became clear that there was no road behind the retaining wall to the right of the photo.

So, on reflection, despite the view looking nothing like Crewe today, it seems likely that the photo was indeed Crewe. There are other relevant comments in my earlier post.

Peter

[daveklepper]

OK   Will do.    May have to wait a while.

[Flintlock76]

Why ever not?  There's certainly historic precedent for it!

[daveklepper]

The Leica M3 shown in the selfie and regularly used by Father Frank Browne, SJ, was introduced by Leitz in 1954, and is the camera I regularly use.

Father Frank Browne, SJ, past on in 1960 at age 80.

I've been cutting my own hair.  When the Coronavirus threat is ended, and I pay to have a haircut, should I take a selfie with my Leice M3 and have it posted?

[scilover]

Oh wow, amazing pictures! He invented the first selfie while taking a haircut hahaha. What year was this?

[daveklepper]

Haven't we established that it is Dublin-Heuston and not Crewe?  Or did I miss  somthingt

[M636C]

 

Assuming this is Crewe (the one in Cheshire), It didn't look much like that when I las visited in 2013. I had also passed through Crewe at night in 1997 when I last travelled to Dublin by rail and ferry. That was also my last visit to Dublin Heuston.

I invite anyone to look at the aerial photo in google maps of the present Crewe station. Where the brick retaining wall stands in this photo, there are now six electrified main line tracks, two of which join the North Wales Coast line on the level and four of which tunnel under the junction, two each joining the line to Manchester and the West Coast main line. These bypass tracks are only for freight trains, since the non stopping passenger trains (all on the West coast) just run though on centre tracks away from the platforms. These are used by the Pendolinos. I tried to photograph these and the best technique is to set the camera on fast sequence mode and hope that one of the shots has the train in the right place.

Anyway assuming this is Crewe, the train is entering from the north on the West Coast Main Line, and the gantry only applies to that line. There would have been similar gantries on both of the diverging routes. These would have been contolled by Crewe Station "A" box which is currently preserved in it original location inside the Crewe Rail Heritage Centre, formerly part of Crewe Workshops (which would be behind the photographer on the right).

The carriage could be an LMS carriage of the type called "Period I" based on Midland Railway designs. For this to be true, the rectangular area above the windows would be a "Stones Ventilator" which consists of vertically hinged glass louvres, half each oriented foward and aft. I can't see how these would reproduce as a flat sheet, as they appear to do in this photo. This type of carriage had paired windows, one of which was a droplight. This does seem to be the case. On this car the photographer is leaning out of one of the droplights, and one ahead of him is also open. I assume this photo was taken during summer.

The windows of the Pendolinos are not as large and definitely don't open.

Peter

[Overmod]

CSSHEGEWISCH

Are you sure that it wasn't Mexican holy water from Jalisco state?

They do that differently now.

 

https://www.cbs17.com/news/check-this-out/priest-goes-viral-after-picture-shows-him-using-squirt-gun-filled-with-holy-water/

We are starting to confuse 'holy water' with 'water of life' with 'divine elixir'.  That's gonna get us in trouble.

[Flintlock76]

CSSHEGEWISCH

Are you sure that it wasn't Mexican holy water from Jalisco state?

 

I'm sure.  Definately from Hot-Lanta!

[York1]

And if it's around Fat Tuesday, you can be a member of a 'Krewe'.

[Overmod]

Miningman

I just knew this would start a riot. 

No, that was Heuston.  At least it got a rise out of you.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Are you sure that it wasn't Mexican holy water from Jalisco state?

[Flintlock76]

Deggesty

 

 

Flintlock76

Crewe in England.  Interesting.  There's a Crewe here in Virginia, and it's a crew change point on the Norfolk-Southern line to Danville.  

Crewe must be a good name for railroad towns!

 

 

 

 

Wayne, Crewe is on what was the N&W's main line; you go west from there, and you go through Farmville; you go east, and you go by Petersburg. what have you been drinking?. 

 

 

Well last night only Coca-Cola, you know, "Southern Holy Water?"

I just dug out my ancient old (1991) Virginia railfan book and you're absolutely right Johnny, Crewe is on the old N&W (now NS) mainline from Norfolk to Roanoke. However the book does call it a "crewe" change point. 

If you work for NS and you're part of the crewe I guess that's what you dew.

Wayne

[Deggesty]

Flintlock76

Crewe in England.  Interesting.  There's a Crewe here in Virginia, and it's a crew change point on the Norfolk-Southern line to Danville.  

Crewe must be a good name for railroad towns!

 

Wayne, Crewe is on what was the N&W's main line; you go west from there, and you go through Farmville; you go east, and you go by Petersburg. what have you been drinking?. 

[daveklepper]

Glad to use the Dublin-Heuston caotion, and thank you!

[Miningman]

I just knew this would start a riot. 

[Overmod]

But is that gantry in the part of Crewe that is not Crewe, or is in in the not-Crewe that is Crewe?

[Flintlock76]

Crewe in England.  Interesting.  There's a Crewe here in Virginia, and it's a crew change point on the Norfolk-Southern line to Danville.  

Crewe must be a good name for railroad towns!

[Miningman]

It's been found!

 

Posted by daveklepper on Friday, June 26, 2020 4:15 AM 

Seem to have lost the caption.  Where is this signal bridge?

Crewe Gantry, 1930  http://www.fatherbrowne.com/

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crewe

 

 

[M636C]

Overmod

I was waiting for people more familiar with UK practice to flag the location -- I'd lay money on Peter Clark knowing not only the railroad and place but the era down to a few years' spread, the type of equipment, etc.

For some reason this makes me think of Reading.  (the one in England).

 

I think that view is approaching Dublin Heuston (orignally called Kingsbridge).

The elevated roadway on the right and the general track layout looks right.

The carriage doesn't look like one of any of the major British railways. In fact, it looks like a vehicle belonging to the Great Northern Railway of Ireland. A number of vehicles with that style of panelling and flat or nearly flat sides were built during the very early years of the 20th Century. These had small raised class indicator plates just above the windows in the doors and these appear in the photo.

Against this is the fact that GNR(I) trains normally terminated at Dublin Connolly north of the river but there were connecting lines and through trains were run as far as Cork.

But that's the best I can do.

Peter

[Overmod]

I was waiting for people more familiar with UK practice to flag the location -- I'd lay money on Peter Clark knowing not only the railroad and place but the era down to a few years' spread, the type of equipment, etc.

For some reason this makes me think of Reading.  (the one in England).

[Penny Trains]

Aye chihuahua!    I pity the operator! 

[Flintlock76]

I don't know myself, but wow, it looks like a signal bridge on steroids!

[daveklepper]

Seem to have lost the caption.  Where is this signal bridge?

[Overmod]

daveklepper

Who would like to discuss differences and similarities between classic Irish and North American interlocking installations?

I think a better place to start might be between British and American practice, followed by detail differences between contemporary British and American plants of this era.  This is not an area where I have more than 'reading' expertise, so will leave it to others with 'the Knowledge' and the proper enthusiasm.

It had not occurred to me that those little patent plates were actually pedals to assist returning the levers to locking position.

The term 'interlocking' itself refers to Saxby and Farmer-type arrangements, where only full combinations of route could be selected with the switch levers and others were 'locked out'.  This was invented just after the American Civil War, and (as usual, I supposed, where these things are concerned) there is some question about whether very early American interlocking practice was cribbed from the English or parallel-developed.  These things remain one of the great innovations of the Victorian era, really as technologically advanced in anything in security lock practice or even horology of that period; I have the same trouble trying to figure out how complex plants are 'programmed' as I do trying to reverse-engineer something like an IBM Composer to fix and adjust it without a manual.  In other words: lots.

Note the typically British electric line-occupancy indicator, about which there are many discussions online -- both in its principles and in its practical use.  I believe the inimitable Robinson developed devices like this in America, by the 1870s, but they had comparatively little early use (you would not believe some of the relevant battery chemistries!) I think in part due to the relatively late invention of the dynamo as a practical source of DC power at the required combination of voltage and amperage to make electrical signaling fully 'practical'.

[daveklepper]

Who would like to discuss differences and similarities between classic Irish and North American interlodking installations?

[daveklepper]

Thanks, Peter!

[M636C]

daveklepper

Here is another of my favorite Father Frank Browne S. J. pictures.   Probably Peter can supply details:

 

 

I've been a bit slow getting to this....

The locomotive on the left is GSR 461, an inside cylinder 2-6-0 built for the Dublin and South Eastern Railway by Beyer Peacock in 1922. This locomotive is now preserved by the Railway Preservation Society of Ireland. A summary of locomotive classes in 1948 described the two locomotives in the class as "One of the best Goods on the System". Inside cylinder 2-6-0s are unusual but are represented by "James" in the "Thomas the Tank Engine" books.

The locomotive on the right is a former Great Southern and Western Class 101 0-6-0 which dates back to 1867, and some of these were built by Beyer Peacock also. It appears to have been rebuilt with a 4'4" diameter boiler, but retains the original design of smokebox with a backward sloping front and two smokebox doors. The 1948 summary said: "The general purpose small Goods engine can work over most lines."

Peter