Vince, if American steam locomotives wound up being scrapped in Canada I can only think of two reasons for the same.
1) The Canadian scrappers offered the best price.
2) Some might just have been up there anyway, so why bring them "home" just to kill 'em?
Just a couple of thoughts on a dirty business.
Wayne
PS: I mentioned Ron Zeil's "Twilight Of Steam Locomotives" earlier, and in the scrapyard chapter Ron mentioned talking with the cutting torch men, and finding out they weren't too crazy about killing those magnificent machines either, but what can you do? A job's a job.
A head scratcher... why would American steam locomotives be scrapped in Canada? Must be something economic about it but enough so to overcome transportation and border holdups... probably brokerage and paperwork?
No capiche.
It is possible the C&O locomotives came from St. Thomas or Sarnia refineries so already based in Canada but articulated locomotives?
Thanks for the link to that forlorn Hudson NDG!
And you know, no-one's saying that ALL the steam locomotives should have been preserved, (As much as we'd secretly wish it!), that would have been totally unrealistic and impractical.
It's the wholesale slaughter, especially of certain historic and landmark types, that has us so PO'd.
OK, business is business, and assuming most of us here are capitalists we more than understand that, but still, what a loss.
Not quite on the order of building condos or strip malls on a Civil War battlefield, but close.
doctorwayne-- could be an urban legend that they just rolled the TH&B Berkshires and Hudsons into the open furnaces... same story with the Algoma Central steam at Algoma Steel. Probably is. The TH&B scrapped their steam fast. Tenders removed moments after their last run ( pics of that) and then off quickly to the steel mills with the locomotive. This was the NYC influence on the TH&B.
Local railfans raved and still do about the TH&B Geeps, but not me ever. Paint scheme never held up well and besides who cares. Passenger declined to nothing, the magic was gone and that was that.
Well I would like to see those C&O steam locomotives in Hamilton as per the Star Weekly.
A very popular and eagerly awaited addition to many newspapers. Ours was the Hamilton Spectator. September to May every year they had a full length half page picture of a NHL hockey player dressed in their home colours. Along with a small bio and stats. Could not wait to see who was featured this week. If it was a Chicago Black Hawk it went on my wall. Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, Glen Hall, Billy Hay, Pierre Pilot, Doug Mohns, Chico Maki.. so good. No link available!
By the way, former media mogul Conrad Black, the founder of the National Post, revived it from the NP inaugural issue and a couple of years after that then the realities of newspaper finances hit hard.
I'm with you Overmod, I really don't want to see steam locomotives lined up for the slaughter. if I want that I'll pull out my copy of Ron Zeil's "The Twilight of Steam Locomotives," and I don't even do that all too often.
I'd find it as disturbing as a film I saw several years ago of a pilot whale massacre in some Scandinavian country. Supposed to be a local festival. Really.
I don't want links. Not of that. Most of what NDG recounts, yes, but not that.
NDG-- No links! Are there supposed to be links? Please repost if so.
Thanks to all for the information included in this thread. I grew up in Hamilton, and do remember much of what was there at one time.
The TH&B was literally right across the street from our front porch, on an elevated r-o-w, and I watched the steamers (and their replacements) from there.The TH&B Berks and Hudsons certainly wouldn't have gone into the STELCO blast furnaces, but were likely cut-up, at STELCO, down near the Bay, then went into the open hearth furnaces. A lot of American steam met its end there, too, including articulated locos and quite a few Berkshires - their tenders, cut-down and modifed, served long lives as slab carriers...there are photos to be found HERE.
I later worked at STELCO so am quite familair with operations there.
The tender from one of the TH&B Hudsons was converted into a steam generator car, and eventually ended-up at Steam Town.
The fruit industry is still flourishing in the Niagara peninsula, but there's little left from Burlington, through Hamilton, and all the way out past Stoney Creek. Some survives in the Winona area, and through Grimsby (my current home) and all the way down to Niagara-On-The-Lake, although it's under threat in various places from urban development.
I'm modelling the late '30s, in HO scale, and many of my industries are named for real ones which exist (or existed) in this area, so the links were a very-much-appreciated reminder of what was once here.
NDG-- Thanks for the Burlington Bay bridges information. Making me homesick, good memories all along there.
Flintlock/Wayne-- The Surveying teacher at our Mine School bought one of four $400,000 condos right on the lake. Very nice, fancy schmancy and all but immediately to their right is the long ago and well established Waterbase with scores of Twin Otters and other models coming and going from the crack of dawn until twilight and they are really noisy things. Ear splitting, take off and landing. Of course now he and his wife are complaining, and are so stressed that he bought land in far away New Brunswick in the middle of no where and building a house there. Will be leaving us upon completion. The water and sewer lines froze solid on all four of them this winter during that extended 2 month long -40 period this winter didn't help either. Some kind of contractor screw up, what a mess.
Nice deck, if you can handle it! So what did they expect really? Peace and quiet with a water base airport, the busiest in all of Saskatchewan a couple of hundred feet away? He looks at my modest house backing onto solid forest all the way to Prince Albert with great envy.
I would view the surge as daily entertainment but to say damage is a stretch. Speeding Lake Freighters, geez. Ok, pull over pal!
Flintlock76Interesting video of that surge through the canal.
As a perhaps interesting point for the alert reader, these surges can become virtually self-sustaining. See the early development of the math that became 'solitons', which was originated when a scientist first observed the phenomenon in a canal and followed it.
Interesting video of that surge through the canal. I read the notes, and apparantly the ships were "speeding," that is, going three to five knots over the eight knot maximum. The US and Canadian Coast Guards are enforcing the speed limits now so the problem's been solved.
I'm glad I read the notes. I was going to make a "Don't buy a house next to an airport because it's cheap and then complain about the noise!" type comment. Kept me from making a fool of myself.
Nice grass.. what damage?? It's America's Day, back to the big show in DC. Fireworks coming!!
OT.
Whilst Talking Canals.........
Thanks Miningman! At least one escaped the scrapper.
Here's the HMCS Sackville's story, for those interested. It's a good story too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Sackville_(K181)
And look at the record of convoys escorted, and this was one ship of hundreds like her!
Firelock-- The HMCS Sackville was saved.. the only one.
It's a shame about those corvettes, a sad end to a lot of proud fighting ships.
Were any of them saved at all?
As mentioned, we went to Hamilton to view the Steam Pumping Engine at the Water Works at that location.
https://images.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/yourtoronto/once-upon-a-city-archives/2015/09/17/once-upon-a-city-the-day-the-ss-noronic-turned-torontos-waterfront-into-a-deadly-inferno/h1x319z3.jpg
We did on lot on the Sault bridge in the Quiz a while back. Pretty extensive with lots of pictures.
Thank you Miningman and NDG for all these informative links and images! The infrastructure at the Sault Ste. Marie canal is definitely an interesting example. : )
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
Thank You, Sir.
Apparently they were able to repair the bridge, as a double bascule bridge still sits there. Our local TV station has a cam at the locks, and that bridge seems to always be down. Those two locks are not used much. The swing bridge in one of the old photos has been replaced by a lift bridge, which crosses the channel to the other two busy locks.
Thank You.
PS.
Note SHADOW of large Freighter blurred out in South Canal.
Next time I visit southern Ontario I will be sure to pay a visit to the Hamilton Steam Museum. Might even manage to drag some relatives along too, make a day of it.
Seems like many (most?) streetcar systems handled some freight, except of course for Toronto with its unique gauge.
In my area the Edmonton Radial Railway once had quite the collection of non-passenger equipment, unfortunately none of it survived into preservation. They even had a rail grinder!
http://www.edmonton-radial-railway.ab.ca/streetcarhistory/workcars/
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Freight operations on the Hamilton Radial Rwy. suburban, now Hamilton Street Railway (HSR) ended 1951. Some equpiment was stored at the bottom of the Beach strip on the Hamilton side and remained there for many years. Sometime in the early 60's it was all gone, vanished.
HRER #123 at the E. D. Smith plant west of Winona, March 1911. Note the unusual doors at the end of each car. (Photo courtesy of Library and Archives Canada, used with permission)
A clip of one of the fruit cars (HRER #393-398) has been found online, inside a short 1920 film on fruit picking in the Niagara Peninsula called 'Where Nature Smiles.' It can't be linked to directly, but here's how to find it:
Visit the National Film Board of Canada Images Search page
on the NFB page, click 'More Options' below the search bar
in the field 'Shot ID', type 27708.
The full documentary is 9 minutes, 15 seconds. The car is being towed by HTC #675, and appears at about 12:05:31:00 (for some reason this clip starts at 12:00:00:00
Paradise Lost
https://www.erudit.org/en/journals/uhr/2001-v30-n1-uhr0603/1015941ar.pdf
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter