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CNR Steamship Lines

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NDG
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Posted by NDG on Monday, November 5, 2018 1:13 PM

 Quote.

The fire on SS Noronic was horrific! But compared to what happened to SS Mont-Blanc in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada on December 6, 1917 aka Halifax Explosion, it wasn't the worst case. 

Quote.

 

I agree Halifax was much worse than the SS Noronic fire.
 
BUT. Most deaths at Halifax were On LAND account the explosion, NOT on-board passengers.
 
Both ships were Freighters, not Passenger Steamships.
 
The item was posted in context with the thread, which is fresh-water Passenger Steamships, and, their eventual demise.
 
Halifax was terrible, no matter the circumstances as was the SS Noronic.
 
OT.
 
Marine Peril, from above.
 
 
 

Thank You.

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, November 5, 2018 10:02 AM

NDG

The fire on SS Noronic was horrific! But compared to what happened to SS Mont-Blanc in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada on December 6, 1917 aka Halifax Explosion, it wasn't the worst case. 

https://jgburdette.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/collision-in-the-narrows-halifax-explosion/comment-page-2/ 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, November 5, 2018 8:36 AM

1953 Ad.  Got to like the addition of the streamlined Northern and the F units depiction. 

The Noronic fire remains quite famous in Toronto. A simple linen closet and fire hoses that don't work brought down a whole industry. 

Of course the rest of the ship was a tinderbox, eventually this would have happened.

I recall when they towed the hulk through the Burlington canal, a railroad/roadway lift bridge crossing over along the beach strip, for the short jaunt to the awaiting Waxman scrapyard and the blast furnaces of Stelco.  

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 5, 2018 1:10 AM

Had no idea about the Noronic.  I have no real words to comment.  It is like the Charles Francis Adams report of the catastrophe at Abergele.

I do recall discussion of other catastrophic ship fires where lemon-oil polish of well-seasoned wood paneling was a major factor in rapid spread.  But not like this.

The picture of 5406 is interesting because it is an example of that somewhat regrettable railroad-photographer tendency to slant the board in the darkroom to make things look longer than they are.  That tender is artificially enhanced to the point it almost looks like the 64T unbuilt variant... especially notable in the spacing between pedestal journals and the rear overhang.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, November 4, 2018 11:33 PM

Miningman

I'm sure the food was not so Las Vegas but more 20th Century. 

Besides wouldn't you rather see Penny strolling on the walkway with her parasol rather than a bunch of drunk 20 something's oggling and harassing your girlfriend.

I think the real fun and games in the privacy of your own boudoir was more meaningful as well. Very romantic, I'd say. 

I love these similes, Vince. Travel experience had changed since the function of ocean liners switched from a luxury transportation vessel to merely a cheap club on the sea. From a pillow, a door handle to the interior design of the cabin and dining room, many cruises which people could easily afford a ticket nowadays were too "Las-Vegaslized"; bad taste eyesore all over the place, from inside to outside of the ship. I wonder what Norman Bel Geddes would have said if he could foresee the future from the 1950s. 

(Skip to 20m40s if you think the video is too long)

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Posted by NDG on Sunday, November 4, 2018 8:23 PM

 

FYI.
 
' S S Noronic. '
 
This definitely did not help the Steamship business.
 
 
 
It later went to Hamilton, Ontario for Scrap In Company with a Canaller, and met w White-Lined Steam, also doomed.
 
Later Example.
 
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 8:00 PM

Well Carnival already has the multimark logo so that's a start. 

I'm sure the old ships in the day had plenty of activities. Shuffleboard on deck, probably a pool, tennis, badminton, ballroom dancing. Gents hiding in leather chaired smokey rooms playing poker. I see a piano in the room full of rattan and wicker so entertainment as well. I'm sure the food was not so Las Vegas but more 20th Century. 

Besides wouldnt you rather see Penny strolling on the walkway with her parasol rather than a bunch of drunk 20 something's  oggling and harassing your girlfriend.

I think the real fun and games in the privacy of your own boudouir was more meaningful as well. Very romantic, I'd say. 

Late Edit:   That was not fair to Russians, changed it to 20 somethings but any group of well inebriated dudes. 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 4, 2018 7:14 PM

Miningman
Todays cruise ships have pretty sterile looking motel type rooms, nothing like these. But hey, they offer wifi, drunks, stoners and weirdos galore. They just take the 'forever party' onto the boat.

But the continuous party is the POINT of the cruise.  Why just ride around in a little room, going up and down, with little to look at outside, when you could be dancing, or swimming, or exercising, or eating, or eating, or eating.  Much of the cruise experience is directly derived from the Catskill experience (and, later, to my father's despair, the Poconos experience) where stuff is always going. And tips are always flowing.  It's a decidedly different set of definitions of 'civilized' than I think most of us have.  It would be interesting in the extreme to see what would happen if Carnival arranged for and then catered more train services....

No, I wouldn't ride them.  But that's not the point -- enough other people might ride them to justify operating a whole train, hoi-polloi coaches and all, for all the gray commodity destination pairs on the route.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, November 4, 2018 7:13 PM

Miningman
Todays cruise ships

Designed by a consortium comitee of Borg and Vogons.  Ick!

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 4:28 PM

Todays cruise ships have pretty sterile looking motel type rooms, nothing like these. But hey, they offer wifi, drunks, stoners and weirdos galore. They just take the 'forever party' onto the boat. Civilization is dead! ... and heaven forbid if you light up a cigarette!

Perhaps river cruises and ferries are a bit more civilized. 

I'll take the rattan and steamer trunks and no wifi any day. Heck I'll take a tramp steamer if there are any left. 

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, November 4, 2018 4:11 PM

A little more elegant the the accommodatios on the British Columbia ferries.

I did have a comfortable cabin when I spent the night from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert four years ago, though, and the dining room provided good meals in the morning and the evening. I was unable to get a cabin for the southbound trip, had to sit up.

Johnny

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 2:32 PM

To Canadian National Steamships.

The illustrations below are from the five different "Lady" liners:
Lady Nelson, Lady Drake, Lady Hawkins, Lady Somers and Lady Rodney.
These ships were built in 1928-1929 and were all of around 8,000 grt and approx. 438 ft. long.
Three of them were sunk during WW2, but the Lady Nelson and Lady Rodney survived
to continue their Caribbean service after the war until sold in the early 1950s
to carry pilgrims and emigrants for the Khedivial Mail Line of Egypt.

 

From a 1932 Canadian National Steamships promotional brochure (see below).

There is a photo of the Lady Nelson as the Gumhuryat Misr during the 1950s on the P and O Line website of Michael Ian Byard

https://archive.org/details/thevarsity57/page/118  ad U of Toronto student paper

 

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 4, 2018 2:28 PM

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 3, 2018 9:11 AM

Jones1945
Overmod

But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up.

Yes, it took only 14 mins, not enough time for me to finish a box of chocolate; but it probably didn't beat the "speed record" of the demise of Pompeii

Interesting that only recently was the speed of death at Pompeii realized; 'common knowledge" when I read about this as a child was that it involved relatively slow gas and ash suffocation, and not prompt pyroclastic flow.

For 'contemporary' speed record, I suggest Saint-Pierre on Martinique, in 1902.  Would that Hamburg or Dresden have been as mercifully quick!

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, November 3, 2018 5:20 AM

Penny Trains

A Lusi fan!  Big SmileThumbs Up

Yes Yes! I prefer the overall design of Lusitania to her sister ship Mauretania. CoffeeSmile, Wink & Grin If I was living in that era and rich enough to afford first class tickets for my whole family, I would travel on Lusi instead of much bigger but slower ship like RMS Olympic. Another ship I love was the SS Normandie; another war victim of yet another world war. The interior design was not for everyone but it was a Holy Temple of Art Deco on the sea for me. Drinks

My favorite battleship was the Nelson Class: 

 

 

Overmod

But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up.

Yes, it took only 14 mins, not enough time for me to finish a box of chocolate; but it probably didn't beat the "speed record" of the demise of Pompeii.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 3, 2018 12:27 AM

Penny Trains
... CP's Empress class ships were better suited for transoceanic service ...

But every time I think of them, almost my first thought is how one of them killed more people than the Malbone Street Horror, more quickly, with the thing about as well covered up.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, November 2, 2018 6:54 PM

Jones1945
By the way, my favorite Ocean Liner was the RMS Lusitania, a victim of WWI....

A Lusi fan!  Big SmileThumbs Up

Yes, CP's Empress class ships were better suited for transoceanic service:

Trains, trains, wonderful trains.  The more you get, the more you toot!  Big Smile

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, November 2, 2018 2:12 PM

Miningman

Such a heroic and stirring deed! They were not designed for transatlantic crossings; compare to the size of early transatlantic ocean liners like RMS Etruria and Umbria, these beautiful cruises probably needed to convert extra space to store enough coal and food. But the world was at war, there was no room to be too picky.

North Atlantic storm is no jokes, these pics were taken from a much larger ship RMS Aquitania ( 901 ft long) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Aquitania 

By the way, my favorite Ocean Liner was the RMS Lusitania, a victim of WWI....

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 2, 2018 12:33 PM

Associated with Canadian National Steamships were "Canadian National Electrics" (see about 6:30; and consider the related quiz question) and associated park, as here

https://gpsvideocanada.com/nst7-dvd-niagara-st-catharines-toronto-railway

Admittedly, the water might not have been as 'crystal-clear' as indicated, but don't you just want to jump into some of those scenes?  (Although there are a couple of very determined women chowing down that might frighten small children and household pets...)

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:21 PM

Deggesty
Ah, yes; the aromas from the areas where captured enemies were kept are described in Kenneth Roberts' two novels set in the War of 1812--Captain Caution and The Lively Lady.

To say nothing of the conditions to which the British subjected detainees during the early part of the American Revolutionary War, where poor olfactory sensation was far from the worst.

The difference is that dude was discussing people who by necessity were supposed to be kept both enthusiastic and healthy during their presumably stinky sojourn.

As an interesting, if somewhat disgusting aside: people who don't bathe for an extended period of time stop having really objectional personal odor after a while.  We observed this firsthand at the Springhill hardware store, where once a year a tribe of 'mountain people' who made twig furniture as a family business would come in to get their nails, twine, tools, etc.  They did not engage in any kind of regular active 'hygiene' but the only smell was a kind of mustiness.  Were they to exercise to a sweat, or get actively drenched, I suspect this happy observation would rapidly become far less happy.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 1, 2018 7:52 AM

Ah, yes; the aromas from the areas where captured enemies were kept are described in Kenneth Roberts' two novels set in the War of 1812--Captain Caution and The Lively Lady. It could also be muddy down there.

Johnny

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:52 PM

Overmod
Miningman
What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing?

As with pirates ... it's because you weren't there.  Likely the effect of one good broadside, with the splinters flying, would cure you of any romantic attraction to the subject whatsoever.  The sort of innovation Southey (I think it was) attributed to Napoleon, putting all sorts of trained ground troops up in the rigging to sharpshoot the sailors on deck wholesale as ships closed, is another grand wholesale murder. 

Modern gunnery and aircraft attack (including various 'kamikaze' tactics) is more effective at destruction, but often less horrifically maiming than the effect of grape or canister or the wooden 'shrapnel' of sea-seasoned wooden structure, repeated again and again and again until enough of the crews on one ship were out of commission to work enough guns.  And the paintwork all was spatter-dashed with ... something appropriate to this season, I think.

Don't forget the (lack of) personal hygiene on cramped wooden ships at sea for months at a time.

The smell below deck must have been 'powerful'.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:49 PM

Well I'm really not fond of deep deep water, the kind where the Kraken and Moby Dick call home.  I do have a boat in the Marina at Port Dover and for some time now, but my 3 now grown up daughters look after it and use it now. ( I pay the annual Marina fees, insurance and major maintenance from far away landlocked Saskatchewan, which proves one is never as smart as they think they are). It's not a sailboat.

No way I would have made any kind of a naval military sailor in any era. Maybe Merchant Marine on the Great Lakes with hopefully a gal in every port. ...and never on Lake Superior in November. 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:12 PM

Miningman
What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing?

As with pirates ... it's because you weren't there.  Likely the effect of one good broadside, with the splinters flying, would cure you of any romantic attraction to the subject whatsoever.  The sort of innovation Southey (I think it was) attributed to Napoleon, putting all sorts of trained ground troops up in the rigging to sharpshoot the sailors on deck wholesale as ships closed, is another grand wholesale murder. 

Modern gunnery and aircraft attack (including various 'kamikaze' tactics) is more effective at destruction, but often less horrifically maiming than the effect of grape or canister or the wooden 'shrapnel' of sea-seasoned wooden structure, repeated again and again and again until enough of the crews on one ship were out of commission to work enough guns.  And the paintwork all was spatter-dashed with ... something appropriate to this season, I think.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 8:47 PM

Firelock-- What it is about these Wooden Ships and Iron Men that we find so fascinating and even appealing? The level of comraderie, adrenalin, fear, heroics all out in the middle of an unforgiving ocean combined with such lethal and devastating force and consequences with every action and decision is unmatched. Likely because things were so visibly unfolding at close quarters and so vulnerable. 

Thinking you better have one helluva Captain.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 7:57 PM

Firelock76

You know, I knew there was a film out there the showed just how smoky a sea battle was in the age of sail, and here it is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06_CkYvIik  

Give it a few seconds to load.  Or maybe "lock and load."

 

Ah, yes--Jack Aubrey; I think I read all 20 books about him and his doctor friend who led an interesting life as he rose from lieutenant to admiral. It has been quite some time since I read them.

Johnny

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 5:59 PM

You know, I knew there was a film out there the showed just how smoky a sea battle was in the age of sail, and here it is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f06_CkYvIik  

Give it a few seconds to load.  Or maybe "lock and load."

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Posted by M636C on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 10:52 PM

Deggesty

Thanks, Peter. Did high-price doctors also express their fees in guineas?

 

 

Not that I have any personal experience, but almost certainly....

I had two cousins who were high priced surgeons, but fortunately never needed to use them. One was Professor of Surgery at Oxford University (in the mid 1970s).

Peter

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