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Less is more? Successful Streamliner made by rebuilt equipment.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, August 19, 2018 10:58 PM

How did CP's Chicago Express get from Windsor to Chicago?

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, August 19, 2018 4:01 AM

Miningman

Some trains remained very popular and were exceptionally well patronized, especially by the buisness class. One train that comes to mind was the Canadian Pacific's Chicago Express Toronto-Chicago service. CPR killed it in it's massive train-offs in the early sixties. You did not need to be a streamliner, or refurbished anything...just good solid parlours, sleepers and diners. CPR simply got out of the passenger business with the exception of 'The Canadian' which remained the icon image of the railway.  

 Last run of the Chicago Express

 Last run of Number 21 engines 1412 1918 Saturday, April 25, 1964 through Campbellville. 
William Carr/R.J.Sandusky Collection.
 

Thank you very much for showing me a new perspective, Miningman. Before early 50s, I can see NYC or PRR still had hope for their passenger train service, thus they did spend a lot of money to upgrade the equipment for their named train or even their secondary trains, one of the example was NYC’s 700 new car order for its “Great Steel Fleet”, turn out it was another miscalculation, totally waste of investment.
But I can understand that why it happened this way; imagine a group of person worked for a Class 1 Railroad for 20 or even 30 years, day by day, years by years doing the almost same thing every day, not many could maintain their crisis awareness.
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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, August 19, 2018 12:47 AM

Some trains remained very popular and were exceptionally well patronized, especially by the buisness class. One train that comes to mind was the Canadian Pacific's Chicago Express Toronto-Chicago service. CPR killed it in it's massive train-offs in the early sixties. You did not need to be a streamliner, or refurbished anything...just good solid parlours, sleepers and diners. CPR simply got out of the passenger business with the exception of 'The Canadian' which remained the icon image of the railway.  A few dayliner Budd car runs were not permitted to be discontinued. All these were to areas the CNR could not serve.  Basically they handed over everything passenger over to the CNR. There was a hew and cry over discontinuing the Chicago Express. The CNR/GTW service on the International was pretty much what you would expect from a quasi pseudo government organization and did not match the free enterprise spirit of the Canadian Pacific service.

So what am I saying here? The railroads were more than glad to get out of the passenger business and out from under all that obligation of providing perpetual passenger service in exchange for land grants and such 100 years earlier. It was not because the business left, it's because they never made any money doing so and there was no hope of doing so even if the trains were full every day. The ONLY exception was WWII where folks had no choice at all and government troop trains on an unprecedented scale put it over the top. 

 Last run of the Chicago Express

 Last run of Number 21 engines 1412 1918 Saturday, April 25, 1964 through Campbellville. 
William Carr/R.J.Sandusky Collection.
 
 
 

 

First 21 Eng 2400 Chicago Express with 12 cars through Campbellville at 8.55 a.m. Sat. May 21, 1955 
Note: 1/21 (First Twenty One) most likely originated in Toronto, while 2/21 (Second Twenty One) 
originating from Montreal probably would have looked like the following earlier scene since the last regular steam between Toronto and Windsor on #21 and #22 was engine 2807 Sun. Mar. 7, 1954
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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, August 18, 2018 1:59 AM

 

 
I agree with Balt too. I don't know how early most of the CEOs or leaders of Class 1 Railroad tried to experience their number one rival: Airline service in person. 
If they did and still believe that purchases 700 new pullman cars and sleepers or advertisement campaigns could save their passenger services from a rapidly; years after years decline, they were somewhat delusional, just like what Mr. Robert R. Young did to C&O in late 40s.
 If I was a businessman who needed to travel between NYC and Chicago constantly, I will choose the fastest route or even the cheaper route. Not all people are railfans who enjoy stuck in a consist for 16 hours. And to be very honest, beside railroad like B&O, NYC or PRR’s Broadway or General, trains service were not really that luxury, compare to hotels or even a house of middle classes in tier one cities in mid 40s to 50s.
This is one of the reason I mentioned in other post about a HSR network should be built just after the war, the travel time of long distance overnight through train was carefully calculated for passenger’s need but in hindsight, it proofed it wasn't enough.

What was the heads of railroads thinking when they watching this film? (you could skip to 3:30)
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Posted by Enzoamps on Friday, August 17, 2018 7:16 PM

Agree with Balt.

I went off to college in 1965.  Took the train from Washington DC (Silver Spring really)  to Lansing, MI.  QUickly found United Airlines had a 12/21 CLub - half price for students within those ages.  Round trip was $36.  Train couldn't compete.

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, August 17, 2018 11:59 AM

Post War - the railroads acted upon their pre-War understanding of the transportation marketplace without taking into consideration the technological advancements of the War and their meanings towards personal transportation.  The rise of the automobile and the affordable airliner, both of which trumped the pre-war thoughts.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Less is more? Successful Streamliner made by rebuilt equipment.
Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, August 17, 2018 11:26 AM
Hello all, I am currently reviewing the History of C&O's Dreamliner - The Chessie, one of the most ambitious plans of the States orchestrated by C&O’s leader Mr. Robert R. Young's. It was not only ambitious and also extremely expensive. Tons of money ($6.1million for the consists, $1.6 million for the 3 Turbine engine); time and effort thrown and put into this project but turn out it became one of the biggest flops ever in America railroad industries due to leak of marketing research and insufficient demand, restless investments like riskily introduced the technically unmatured Steam turbine engine from Baldwin etc.
 
 
 
 
C&O’s rival B&O used another approach to face the challenge. Instead of burning money for new cars and equipment, B&O rebuilt a 5-car consist - The Cincinnatian, in their Mount Clare Shops with older heavyweight cars. even though the Cincinnatian didn’t have a chance to compete with the proposed Chessis, the train was proved to be a successful one after it changed the route from Baltimore to Cincinnati on June 25, 1950. This example kind of proved that rebuilt cars and sleeper can provide the same level of comfort and services quality as the brand new post-war lightweight car.
 
 
 
 
More examples like B&O’s Royal Blue, NYC’s Mercury (pre-1948), N&W’s Pocahontas (pre-1946) and PRR’s Trail Blazer (pre-1948), many of them were renowned for their excellent services and were loved by the patrons before they received upgraded new train cars in the late 50s. Due to many reasons, the postwar new lightweight car didn’t stop the decline of ridership for all fallen flags.

This is just a sharing post, please feel free to share your thought! CoffeeSmile, Wink & Grin

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