Undoing of Standard Time.

[Overmod]

Deggesty

As I understand the matter, when the noon sighting had been taken, the time on board the ship would be set to noon.

I honestly do not know how often this is done.  All my experience is that the deviation is continued indefinitely, and the 'hands' are not reset or tinkered with while at sea.  (But that isn't exactly very great experience, if you take my meaning!}

all on board the Japanese ship observed Tokyo time, no matter how far the ship was from Japan.

I am sure this is because the Japanese had their own 'proprietary' version of GMT, perhaps with the prime meridian assigned to Tokyo, or wherever, instead of Birmingham, for the actual calculations.  (Ths would be a 'national pride' sort of thing, especially appropriate for the Japanese wartime 'cabal' in government.)  Their maps, etc. would need to be slightly redrawn if this was so, but only with respect to the 'lines' of longitude. 

[Deggesty]

I see your point about the accuracy of a marine chronometer. As I understand the matter, its primary purpose was to aid in determining the longitude of a location--take a sight of the sun at its zenith, and see how much the local sun time differs from Greenwich time. Until a reliable chronometer was developed, longitude could not be determined accurately until quite some time after tables showing the north/south location of the sun and moon had been developed to be used in determining latitude.

As I understand the matter, when the noon sighting had been taken, the time on board the ship would be set to noon.

This is entirely an aside, but an uncle of mine was a missionary in Japan when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. He and his wife, along with other enemy aliens, were interned until some time in 1942 when arrangements were made for them and Japanese internees to be exchanged. Those in Japan boarded a Japanese ship which met a Swedish (neutral) ship somewhere (probably in Japanese-controlled waters). I do not know where the two ships met, but all on board the Japanese ship observed Tokyo time, no matter how far the ship was from Japan. The term had not been invented at the time, but think of the jet lag both groups of internees suffered when they changed ships!

[Overmod]

Deggesty

I do not think that anything but marine chronometers had to be more accurate than these watches.

Deggesty

You may have noticed the inscriptions concerning adjustment in various positions--they had to keep correct time, no matter what position they were carried in, or what temperatures they were exposed to.

Keep in mind that at least some of this is "marketing" -- electric railroads and the like were often happy with only three positions, and there is very little 'advantage' in some of the positions for railroad service...

  Here is an article that covers the details for those who want to know more...

I do not think that anything but marine chronometers had to be more accurate than these watches.

As an nteresting point, a railroad watch may be MORE 'accurate' than a marine chronometer -- albeit not as precise.  This is not nit-picking.

Interestingly enough, as you know from using a marine chronometer, it isn't inherently 'accurate' -- you can't and don't rely on looking at the hands to find out what time it is.  You look at the hands, calculate the appropriate deviation factor, and apply it to find out what time it is -- a procedure that would rightly have any railroad operating authority in horror if they'd stop laughing at anyone who suggested it!  The important thing for any marine chronometer is that it run at a consistent rate, not that it run at the exact rate corresponding to 'clock time'.  (I have mentioned that this is actually LESS exact than a stopped railroad watch, which at least will show the precise time of day twice daily... ;-}

The really good late railroad watches can be accurate to within seconds a YEAR,  (This in some cases requires special care of the watch when it isn't in normal position on your wrist... but I have at least two that are no more than half a second out after 3 or 4 months.  (I won't go into the tech needed to make them that accurate, I promise!  ;-})

[Deggesty]

Some times, the "extra hour of daylight" is a false assumption. In 1966, I began scoring my town's baseball and softball program for the young people (four games an evening when the PeeWee league played). I do not remember just what time the first game was played, but the temperature had cooled some by then (this was in West Central Alabama). The next year, the people in charge quickly realized that the first game had to be delayed an hour because at the start time by the clock the weather was too hot. So, there was no daylight gained for the ball games. 

Those are nice pictures of something that is seldom seen.

You may have noticed the inscriptions concerning adjustment in various positions--they had to keep correct time, no matter what position they were carried in, or what temperatures they were exposed to. I do not think that anything but marine chronometers had to be more accurate than these watches.

[gbrewer]

Overmod, your picture turned out better than mine. It isn't easy to shoot a movement in a swing ring case. I gave it a try, but I'm sure I can do better when I have more time to set up the shot and use a tripod.

Keystone Howard 21 Jewel Series 11 Railroad Chronometer.

[Phoebe Vet]

"On the other hand, many white men found the presence of sufficient natural light to accomplish necessary morning chores to be worth shifting their clock time"

 

Moving the hands of the clock does not, in any way, effect how much natural light is available to do morning chores.  It is a silly tradition that causes many people who forget to change their clocks to mess up their daily schedule.  There are always a few who are late for work because of it.  It causes 24 hour job employees who are working during the change to demand overtime for the extra hour worked or to complain when employers only want to pay them for 7 hours.   DST is not observed everywhere in the US, causing further confusion.

On the other hand, if they eliminated it I wouldn't know when to change the batteries in my smoke detectors.

[Overmod]

Phoebe Vet

As a wise old Indian once said:

"Only a white man thinks that cutting a foot off the bottom of a blanket and sewing it back onto the top results in a longer blanket"

On the other hand, many white men found the presence of sufficient natural light to accomplish necessary morning chores to be worth shifting their clock time... at high latitudes where diurnal variation with the seasons justifies it.  There is, additionally, something peculiarly 'American' in the idea that it makes sense to change 'accurate' time both operationally -- to simplify connections and timetables for an increasingly 'national'-scope railroad system, as well as make 'reality' conform better to human circadian-rhythm preferences...

Saying that 'time itself has changed' when daylight-saving time comes on or off reminds me a bit of the Seventh-Day Adventists pointing out that the sequence of days of the week didn't change when the calendars were adjusted.  Nothing in UTC changes; nothing in GMT changes; the expression 'time change' is more a vernacular than "technical" phrase.

Now, I'd like to shift this discussion slightly -- over to sly old Webb C. Ball and his timely cleverness in grandstanding the "official railroad watch" changes.  Remember that Ball was not a major watchmaking force -- he was a jeweler in Cleveland.  Look up 'smokestack jewels' to get an idea of his style... prior to 1891.  Interesting that the 19+-jewel requirement comes in as part of the 'new' regulations.  Even more interesting to see the various ways that increased jewels -- 'smokestack' or otherwise (I am thinking of the Howard ruby banking pins, and getting to '19 jewels' just with a motor barrel on the model 5, in particular!) -- came into the design and practice of railroad-watch design.

Something I am not clear on is when the effective change to "21 jewels or more" came about.  Is that a circumstantial consequence of the adoption of 'official permissible lists' by the railroads, or was there a formal change to the 19-jewel minimum?

[Firelock76]

Anothern wise old Indian said:

"Only a white man needs a watch to tell him when he's hungry!"

Overmod, those are some georgeous old watches!  I've got a few myself, but only two actual railroad grade. The gold fill on the back of one of them's worn down to the base metal.  Makes you wonder how many trips it's made in and out of a railroad mans pocket.

By the way, when were those watches made?

 

[Phoebe Vet]

As a wise old Indian once said:

"Only a white man thinks that cutting a foot off the bottom of a blanket and sewing it back onto the top results in a longer blanket"

How sad it is that we are incapable of changing our work habits by an hour without pretending that time, itself, has actually changed.

[Overmod]

Here's a series 11 movement to hold us over until you can get a picture...

and by contrast, here is the immediately prior series10 Railroad Chronometer movement (with conventional high-grade bridge movement):

Now, one of the first things I usually hear about this is how 'cheap' the Series 11 looks in comparison with the older version.  Let me put this in perspective.  No one ever gets to see the movement of a working railroad watch -- it's not legal to open the case, or have a glass back, or in fact do anything to show off the exquisite damaskeening, fancy gold caps and ruby jewels, etc. that characteriize so many of the high-end railroad movements.

Meanwhile, the folks at the friendly railroad time service have to maintain these things to keep time to 30 seconds a week or better, and fix them whenever (and it's when, not if) they get bashed.  The Series 11 shares with the 'new model' 12s Howard movement a number of features that make servicing and repair much easier.  See the funny-looking ratchet detent?  That makes it easy to let down the mainspring without letting things slip, or scarring the plates if your hand slips.  See how thin the upper plates are, and how their alignment is determined by more metal in the pillar-plate assembly?  Easier to make, less expensive to fabricate, means more money can be put into the things that make for high accuracy in a watch.  And the dialside and hands, please note, are at least as attractive as any series 5, or 10, or O-series dress watch...

Just to digress a bit, I finally found a good example of one of the very latest versions of working railroad pocket watch, the high-end Swiss Ball 435:

You will notice that the general level of finish is not up to the 'glory' of the 999 and 999B versions of the Ball Official Standard... but there is something very important here that is not on the older American movements.  Look carefully at the cap jewels on the escapement.  See the Incabloc-style springs?  Those allow a little deflection if the watch is hit or dropped.  It's common to find wristwatches that have this shock protection on the balance-wheel jewels.  It is extremely rare to see the same attention paid to the lever and escape-wheel jewels!  This is a movement lovingly designed by people who understood what a working railroad watch needed to be...

[Deggesty]

I absolutely refuse to get up at 0200 to reset my clocks and my watch. My living room clock resets itself; my alarm clock is already reset; my clock that runs on 120 volts takes too long to reset until the power has gone off, and I simply remember what time zone I am in (as I do when I travel and do not reset my watch as I go east or west). If I were standing the first watch in the navy, I might consider resetting timepieces at that hour..

[gbrewer]

No, it is a series 11, 21 jewel, Railroad Chronometer. I'll see if I can get a photo tomorrow.

[Overmod]

Hey -- is that Howard a series 10 Railroad Chronometer?  Let's see a movement picture...

[gbrewer]

The long battle for Standard Time undone? Don't forget to reset you clocks, watches, cameras, etc tonight if you live where standard time gives way to fast time at 2 am tomorrow morning. See my story, "Railroad Time, Standard time, accurate time, reliable time and American clocks and watches" at http://RailroadGloryDays.com/RailroadTime