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Budd Rail Diesel Cars

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Posted by Jimbok1231@yahoo.com on Monday, March 24, 2014 2:33 PM
I know this is stretching the conversation, but when I was working the "locals" between CRT-POU, when I "lost" my Budds, Conrail, subbed an FL-9/1 or 2 (beat up) coach(es)/FL-9. This was done in Push/Pull style (though not really, as the rear FL-9 was basically "dead-tow", as the engineer could not control the rear unit as no "MU" cables ran between the units/coaches).
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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:18 PM

daveklepper

Long blocks, I gather.   Did you make the connection?

5/8 of a mile.  Of course, 63rd street wasn't the best neighborhood in those days...

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Posted by dakotafred on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 8:04 AM

Dave, DPM (and others) always sounded as if EL treated passengers right -- as well as it could afford -- right up to the end. I believe that was the doing of the president, William White, during whose administration Nos. 1 & 2 were renamed for the former Lackawanna's most-famous train, the Phoebe Snow. That would have been a tough swallow for old Erie hands, whose Limited handle had seniority of its own.

Memories!

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 4:06 AM

You mntioned that the Lake Cities diner was set up as half a lounge.   When I rode it in 1968, a few months before dicontinuence, it was a (nearly?) full diner for later diners leaving Hoboken, and then half a lounge in the morning and on to Huntington.  I had dinner, breakfast, and lunch, and all were excellent.

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Posted by dakotafred on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 5:20 PM

No, I had to wait about 5 hours for the next RI, nominally the westbound Corn Belt Rocket but by that time a glorified mail train. I used some of the time well, however, watching a lot of Dearborn arrivals and departures thru that wonderful picture window in the waiting room upstairs.

RC, if I had known the Englewoods were that handy to each other, I might have tried to make things interesting, but probably not. I was a poor college student, and my meager pocket money was for beer on the train, not for taxi cabs.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 2:45 PM

Long blocks, I gather.   Did you make the connection?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 1:36 PM

They were "only" five blocks apart...

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Posted by dakotafred on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 11:37 AM

daveklepper

What was the consist of the substitute train?   Boiler GP-7. bag and coach?

Was this before or after the Lake Cities sleeper operated only east of Youngstown and the diner only east of Huntington?

Dave, I'm ashamed to say I can't remember the NYC consist, altho I surely would have taken note of it at the time. Of the Cities consist, all I can swear to is at least a lounge section, set up parlor-car style, no doubt part of the "Diner-Lounge" advertised in my 1962 Guide. The Guide shows the diner-lounge turning at Huntington.

The other thing I remember for sure is that the Cities was running late and my connection with the Rock Island was in danger. There wouldn't be enough time for me to get from Dearborn to LaSalle Street. I proposed to the conductor getting off at Englewood ... and was disappointed to learn that E-L's Englewood was a different one than the Rock Island's!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 9:58 AM

As far as I can remember, the "Lake Cities" sleeper operated east of Youngstown beginning sometime prior to 1965.  The diner was turned around at Huntington beginning sometime in 1967 or 1968.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 18, 2014 5:33 AM

What was the consist of the substitute train?   Boiler GP-7. bag and coach?

Was this before or after the Lake Cities sleeper operated only east of Youngstown and the diner only east of Huntington?

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Posted by dakotafred on Saturday, March 15, 2014 6:04 PM

nyc#25

  In the 1960s I rode NYC's "Miami Valley Beeliner" which went by itself from Cleveland

to Cincinnati and returned on the rear of #16, the "Ohio State Limited".

Also in the early 1960s, when as a college student I was traveling Cleveland-Chicago several times a year:

One time I routed myself via Galion, O., expressly to ride the Beeliner and the Erie Lackawanna. Alas, the Central substituted conventional equipment for the RDC that day -- and I missed what turned out to be my only opportunity to ride one of those critters.

However, I wouldn't trade my experience of the beautiful old Erie depot at Galion or my one and only ride on the Lake Cities!

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Posted by narig01 on Saturday, March 15, 2014 1:48 PM
FWIW column.
I was looking at some DVDs of NYC & New Haven. One of the interesting things to see were RDCs tacked onto the rear of MUs on the New York Central at Mott Haven.

Thx IGN
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Posted by efftenxrfe on Wednesday, March 5, 2014 10:34 PM

Glad you got to ride maybe the grandest. finest, most enjoyable engine crew jobs. That's a period back there.

On duty 4:15PM, off duty about 8:30PM, check in to a reserved room at a good hotel, eat in it's dining room go to bed...,, rest, if you hadn't met a sociable woman....

Then a call, you did not need to arrange for,which allowed in the morning,....enough  time to get the engines warm, after you've had a full nourishing and comfortable breakfast, made the trip...go off duty in SF around 10:00AM. You went on duty at 645AM,

Money? 

Day's pay, one each SF to Watsonville Jct and return. Between, another day's pay Wats Jct to Monterey and return, eleven hours pay, straight time, eight within nine hours union agreement.

Repeat, 3 times a week. SF to Monterey and back. One day off a week. could

At home in the Bay Area 4 nights, 3 nights at a really good hotel in Monterey?
 Let mel.....suggest this.... is one of the best places... over 300 miles a trip?

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Wednesday, March 5, 2014 9:53 PM

Glad you got to ride maybe the grandest. finest, most enjoyable engine crew jobs. That's a period back there.

On duty 4:15PM, off duty about 8:30PM, check in to a reserved room at a good hotel, eat in it's dining room go to bed...,, rest, if you hadn't met a sociable woman....

Then a call, you did not need to arrange for,which allowed in the morning,....enough  time to get the engines warm, after you've had a full nourishing and comfortable breakfast, made the trip...go off duty in SF around 10:00AM. You went on duty at 645AM,

Money? 

Day's pay, one each SF to Watsonville Jct and return. Between, another day's pay Wats Jct to Monterey and return, eleven hours pay, straight time, eight within nine hours union agreement.

Repeat, 3 times a week. SF to Monterey and back. One day off a week. cou.dto it?

At home in the Bay Area 4 nights, 3 nights at a really good hotel in Monterey
 Let mel.....suggest this.... is one of the best... 

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, March 4, 2014 8:13 PM

The only real SP train I got to ride was the Del Monte #126, between Castroville and Monterey on April 30, 1971.  My earlier train riding was all in the  midwest.  I didn't ride an RDC until 1979, on the Springfield shuttle in Massachusetts.

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Tuesday, March 4, 2014 7:01 PM

Right on, rcdrye.

Did you get to ride it?

I made the Willets-Euraka round trip in the 60's....memorable

It was one of two trains I rode as a passenger with SP power regularly assigned that was west of Yuma and not dissolved into SP, the railroad had a legitimate different name, and Pacific Electric already was an LA MTA passenger obligation....not PE.

It's a question; the time: was between fall of '58 and spring of '60, An SPT Div Supt was the President and a division RFE was the Trainmaster-RFE. of the RR.  

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, March 3, 2014 6:25 AM

efftenxrfe

By single- ended, I mean that there was no vestibule, no engineer's controls, no passenger entryway on one end, the other was nearly conventional but it was adorned with somethings on the cab roof.

SP #10, used on the Senator from Oakland to Sacramento, then leased to the Northwestern Paciic for Redwood service.  The "B": end got tangled with a truck and was rebuilt as a baggage compartment (more or less).  Tha "A" end had number indicator boards for the train numbers. (225 and 226 for the Senator, 3 and 4 for the Redwood).  In service until 4/30/1971.

This was one of several cars bought on the "suggestion" of regulators to see if ridership would go up or costs down on particular services.

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Sunday, March 2, 2014 6:56 PM

There was a single ended RDC that ran on 2 RR's but was lettered for only one. Its service was  at least two distinct, separated scheduled pairs of schedules. and nobody's mentioned it.

By single- ended, I mean that there was no vestibule, no engineer's controls, no passenger entryway on one end, the other was nearly conventional but it was adorned with somethings on the cab roof.


One More Ride, Way Out There....









ride, 

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, March 2, 2014 1:02 PM

daveklepper
Very clever use of the single-rack high-clearance CP freight tunnel to the harborfront, doubldecked for two tracks for Skytrain's only "subway" portion. 

Skytrain is a very interesting system. The former CP tunnel was also used to make their main station a through station, unlike the stub station it is now. The system is clean, well used, expanding, and well constructed. The stations are light and airy, yet closed off enough that in bad weather it isn't an issue. The beams are designed to have a limited effect on the area.

The use of LIM gives two of the lines a distinctive sound. The new line uses incompatible trains, don't even get me started on the poor decision that was!

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, March 2, 2014 12:55 PM

When I visited the Vancouver Worlds Fair, after an Electric Railroaders' Convention in Edmonton and Calgary, I also rode the BCR RDC service to Lillooet and back.  I opted for the delux seating with the meal service, and  was glad I did.  I also opted for the optional tour in Lillooet.

I had ridden from Edmonton on the CN Super Continental.  Bruce Russell and Jack May were with me.  We were dusk photographing the CN business car at the rear of the train, with its open platform.  The steward came out, and we took pictures of hiim with the car.  Jack or Bruce volunteered to send him a print.  He then said the car was on a ferry move and was not occupied, but we could ride with him if we wished to keep him company until we wanted to turn in for bed in our roomettes.  The weather was balmy ehough for us to enjoy the open platform and thus had some idea of the ewonderful scenery despite the darkness.  Lasr call for diner in the diner was 8:30, and we wanted to eat, and afterward went back with a few drinks for ouselves, but the steward of course refused, and said he had plenty of soft drinks aboard and we shouldn't worry about his eating or drinking.   We finalliy went to bed around midnight.

In addition to BCR, Skytrain intreagued me, and I rode it several times.   Very clever use of the single-rack high-clearance CP freight tunnel to the harborfront, doubldecked for two tracks for Skytrain's only "subway" portion. 

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, March 2, 2014 12:47 PM

1oldgoat
I was wondering if BC Rail operated the last RDCs, but if the train you rode had cars from BCR, that answers my question. Are those cars still run in Oregon?

The cars in Oregon are ex Alaska. I think the BCR units went to Texas, where they are backups for Stadler GTWs.

1oldgoat
Via operated RDCs north out of Victoria on the former Esquimalt and Nanaimo (part of Canadian Pacific). Last I heard that service was suspended. Has it been restored? Last I heard they were talking about doing so.

Service hasn't been restored, last I heard they were still quibbling over the costs to restore service.

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Posted by 1oldgoat on Friday, February 28, 2014 11:17 PM
I was wondering if BC Rail operated the last RDCs, but if the train you rode had cars from BCR, that answers my question. Are those cars still run in Oregon? Via operated RDCs north out of Victoria on the former Esquimalt and Nanaimo (part of Canadian Pacific). Last I heard that service was suspended. Has it been restored? Last I heard they were talking about doing so. I rode the RDCs on BCR from North Vancouver to Lillooet and back. Great ride, fantastic scenery. The SB train was 2 hours late, and the hogger worked those cars. He'd slow for a curve no later than he was out of it, he had them hi-balling again. The folks at the end must have felt like they were on the end of "crack the whip"! He had regained the lost 2 hours when the dispatcher put us in the hole about 15 miles from North Van for a NB freight that had trouble getting out of town. You guessed it. We were 2 hours late tying up! But it was a wild ride indeed. The CN purchased BC Rail the following year and the dumb asses at CN discontinued the train.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 10:11 AM

CoolSNAFU and who cares aslong as every one arrives alive?Geeked

Tags: fec
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Posted by Jimbok1231@yahoo.com on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 8:17 PM
Yes I remember Mr Kaplan when he was a Trainmaster in Croton and GCT in the late 70's and early '80's. One of the times Mr Kaplan and I talked was when he asked me why I didn't collect "transportation" (i.e., tickets) on my last run of the day CRT-POU. As I told Mr Kaplan the next morning in CRT, I had a single Budd (when the normal was two, as it was a connection/cross platform with an MU train from GCT that was the last train "High Peak" (full fare) train from GCT), I had people standing 5 deep with the Engr and I had at least 10 or more standing in the rear compartment with me, standing room only in the aisle, every seat taken! I basically stood with the steps down, just room enough to reach the communicating buzzer to let the engr know when to stop and go! The best part of the night, a few of the regulars showed me their monthly passes, and the ten trippers also! But I just couldn't walk thru the Budd and collect anything---NO Carry-By's their station! Every one got off at their station, may have taken a minute or two! On time POU! Mr. Kaplan asked me the capacity of a Budd car, I said "90", he said on this RR (Conrail/MTA) their is "no capacity---fill them up and go"! Next time pick up as many tickets you can get and "guess the rest"!
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 1, 2014 2:29 PM

Smile I wish I could have ridden these many histiric lines. feeling old and not enough time or money to complete bucket lict. while it is hell getting old at least i am not dead yetHmm

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Posted by nyc#25 on Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:31 AM

  In the 1960s I rode NYC's "Miami Valley Beeliner" which went by itself from Cleveland

to Cincinnati and returned on the rear of #16, the "Ohio State Limited".

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Posted by henry6 on Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:30 AM

Another great RDC ride for me was in the late 80's out of Brewster North (now Southeast) on MNRR's Harlem division.   As I've noted before several times this is one of my seminal Ridewithmehenry trips.  The day after Christmas while visiting the family I decided to take a train ride from Denville, NJ to Hoboken then up to Grand Central and ride to Dover Plains.  This meant electric MU's to Brewster North and the RDC from there north to Dover Plains.  This snowy day after Christmas was full of snow.  And railfans.  The RDC was so packed that the vestibules at both ends of the car were open for standees while the regular passengers used the seats wondering about the rest of us who rather stand next to the engineer or in the rear vestibule rather than fight for a seat.   In both directions.  Great ride.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, January 31, 2014 10:40 PM

The last RDC I rode was the Lewis & Clark 200th anniversary service that ran from Portland to Astoria, OR, from 2004 to 2006. It had 3 cars: 2 powered cars at either end,and a de-powered car in the middle used as a diner.  It was fairly informal, and the engineer opened the cab compartment to passengers for the cab view.  I think the equipment came from BCR.

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Posted by henry6 on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 7:33 AM

rcdrye

1964 B&M ETT has 50 mph max speed between Springfield and Greenfield.  Now being rebuilt for 79 mph. 

rcdrye:  you know I'm talking about railroaders and railroads when they knew how and were allowed to get things done.  I don't think the speedometer was broken but I know one who's spirit was that night.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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